Your Breakfast Is 90% Carbs And That’s The Real Problem ft. @krishashok
Author Name:Dr Pal
Youtube Channel Url:https://www.youtube.com/@DrPal
Youtube Video URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR43EHaYb2k
Transcript:
(00:00) I think the most overused abused word in in social media is cancer. Egg causes cancer. Burn chapati causes cancer. You'll immediately click. The right title for those videos should be if you burn your chapati to complete black. If I want to hit my protein goals, almost always go and order chicken tikka.
(00:18) That is the healthiest way to eat chicken in India. Chris Ashok doesn't claim to be a chef >> and that's exactly why he's worth listening to. He brings curiosity, >> experimentation, >> and science into the kitchen. >> Making cooking both smarter >> and more fun. >> That if you're eating paneer, if you're vegetarian, remember that 70% of the calories from paneer are fat.
(00:37) Then you have to cut down on the fat in elsewhere. Sandwich or a burger is culinarily speaking concept is carb, protein, carb. India carb, deep fried carb. Generally, patients feel like, okay, I'm I'm recovering from sickness. Yes. >> It has been a while since I've ate nicely. >> Yes. >> So they go to McDonald KFC. >> Name a protein breakfast in India.
(01:01) Nothing. Everything is all cups. Idli vada puri paratha. Even the modern invented ones are all cups. What is the most practical way to do that with Indian cooking which always needs a lot of oil. See can you make an omelette in a stainless steel pan? You can by adding a lot of oil.
(01:19) When you over boil an egg, a hardboiled egg has a smell. Overboiled egg when you open no in the center one be a little bit of that that dull green correct that is ferrraulfi if you if you want to tell vegetarians I don't like the smell of egg just say smell egg boiled egg smell chart masala >> before we dive in can I be honest with you it blows my mind that 57.
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(02:01) Now, let's get into today's episode. So, Kish Ashok is the author of Masala Lab. He explains the science of everyday Indian food in a way that actually makes sense. Trained as an engineer, Kish brings clarity to cooking, nutrition, and food myths by breaking down what really happens to food during cooking, storage, and digestion.
(02:25) Through his writing, talks, and research-driven content, he helps people move away from fear-based eating and understand food using logic, history, and science without taking the joy out of it. Watch this episode to finally understand food through science, not fear, trends, or myths. Let's dive deep into it. So hi Kish.
(02:46) The main reason I brought you here again is to as usual to break the myths, okay, that people are think I'm going to start right away with the myths. >> Super. >> Um what is the take on burned roti causing cancer? >> You see this uh see I think the most overused uh abused word in in social media is cancer. Simply because when you use the word cancer people pay attention >> right? It is a scary thing right? We all know somebody in the family who has it.
(03:13) So immediately when this cause can egg causes cancer, burnt chapati causes cancer, you'll immediately click and that's the primary goal. You want people to click once you have done you have done your job, you have got your ad revenue after that you can say whatever you want. See the fact of the matter is that um the right title for those videos should be if you burn your chapati to complete black and then you eat that chapati for 10 years, you might have a slightly increased chance of cancer risk. doesn't make for a very catchy
(03:42) title. It's easier to say burnt chapati causes cancer. No. So I think what people normally forget is that the the amount of that burnt substance acryomide or any of those other things that you have to consume over a sustained period of time and also have many other bodily weaknesses, metabolic issues, others that makes your body harder to you know deal with these kinds of things.
(04:06) Your liver is stressed to deal with these things. Then you're increasing your cancer risk and so on. But I think so people forget that you are driving in a polluted city with that AQI. Those are far far far bigger risks >> uh than the tiny risk that you're uh chapati. So I think it's a fundamental problem is people forget the denominator size.
(04:31) It's this is such a trivial risk >> u that uh that people are completely overthinking these things. >> That's that's the dose dependent completely dose dependent right. See and again sometimes what I find interesting is that uh the creators on in social media have now realized that people like finding out oh here is a paper that showed etc etc right even then they forget that the studies will be done on rats >> right and the rat was not given chapati rat was directly injected acryomide over that's not how we eat right so I think people just forget that human body is
(05:06) not like rats at best it gives you an indication that yes, it's a substance you don't want to consume in large amounts, but again, all you have to be worried about is in your daily life, what are the chances that you'll get anywhere remotely close to that dose? >> And even the the recommended allowed dose etc etc itself will be thousand times more thousand times less than the amount that caused the damage in rats.
(05:32) So you have enough buffer actually people just completely forget that >> and and the concept here is that the high heat can cause this chemical called acrymide is what the we're talking about. >> So that's one of many things. So as you continue to burn food eventually you will get ash you will get other blacker substances that so these basically all your these food molecules will break down into these smaller other carbon based molecules that are not necessarily good for you.
(05:59) But we intuitively the moment when something is fully burnt we don't eat actually. >> Right. See, at best you're eating a a tandoori type thing with a few blisters, that brown one absolutely adds to taste, right? But you're never see unless you're eating barbecue and tandoori like every day, three times a day, right? This is you don't need to worry about these things at all.
(06:18) >> But tandoori chicken, you know, some angle what they argue is that, you know, it is less oil. The uh right and chicken breast and relatively much better source of protein compared to a chicken curry masala. Yes, absolutely. See, actually, see, every time you think about food, no, uh, it is all about an interesting trade-off, right? See, um, but for content creators, each one represents a different excuse to find this is cancer, that is cancer, right? But it's all a trade-off, right? See, tanduri everyday
(06:50) means that you are baking that thing at a very high temperature. And so, yes, so you always have that acryomide and those kind of, you know, charring those kind of risk. And yet in terms of pure protein calories without the need to add a lot of fat and carbs and you know deep fried chicken with all the you know b bread coating and all of that right that is the absolute easier.
(07:15) In fact, um if I want to hit my protein goals and I'm I'm don't want to think, I will almost always go and order chicken tikka >> cuz that is the healthiest way to eat chicken in India, right? >> Technically speaking, yes, steamed chicken breast, very lightly grilled is probably healthier because it has even less oil like they do in the west.
(07:33) But Indians don't like eating like that, right? >> Um so that's the thing, right? So you I so that is why I think you know like steamed fish >> um inside the banana leaf and all that you can make with very little oil. So those are actually very nice ways to eat. You can't it's very harder to do that with chicken.
(07:50) But actually chicken tikka is one of the safest and most efficient ways to consume protein in India. >> And let's say that you are ordering chicken tikka outside right to meet your protein source. Yeah. >> Will you will you prefer any particular you know like heat or doesn't matter >> that all of that doesn't honestly doesn't matter.
(08:09) I usually mostly think of non-protein calories that get added >> right. So I will say don't rub that extra butter at the end. Right? I don't want the malai version which again is another excuse to add fats. Right? See at the end of the day the restaurant wants to add fat because that's what just makes it delicious. >> Right? They're not in the business to give you protein or healthy food.
(08:28) They want to give you things that oh this is so delicious. I want to come back again. Right? So that's their motivation. Right? So you can be smart and say order the dal but say skip the last tka because they will do double tka oil at the start more oil and ghee at the end said skip the final one just give it to me just give me the yellow dal right so those are all safe things to order right um and the other thing is that you would rather order the yellow dal than the dal mccani where 80% of the calories are fat
(08:57) >> right you think you're eating dal black dal and all that but all the creaminess in a restaurant comes from adding butter and cream, heavy cream, right? So, it's a lot of fat calories. So, you'd better off going for the yellow dal if you're if you are worried about calories, right? Once in a while you eat the dal maki for taste, right? But you treat it as an indulgence.
(09:17) But the dal tka is absolutely a better choice. And the problem with Indian meat curries is that again most of the calories are fat. >> They will add a lot of oil, >> right? Because I think historically we'd like to add a lot of spices. Um, and if you're adding a lot of spices, you have to add a lot of fat. Lot of oil. >> Yeah, a lot of oil. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah.
(09:36) For spices, you add a lot of fat, a lot of oil. So, and if you're sometimes if you're making red meat, the red meat will have fat also, right? So, that will also render out. So, the whole thing becomes pretty high um in terms of fat calories and so on. So, again, all of this has to do with the fact that look, you know, if you're with your family um and you traditionally had that mutton or beef curry on the weekend and it's a special occasion thing, absolutely perfect, right? U but I think it is that if you're focused on food as a
(10:01) functional way to hit some nutritional goals then you have to make these intelligent choices right so you say yes I would rather opt for the chicken you have to keep in mind that if you're eating paneer if you're vegetarian remember that 70% of the calories from paneer fat >> fat okay >> so then you have to cut down on the fat in elsewhere >> right then eating a deep fried something samosa also then you know they're adding to the fat overload in that case so just being aware of these kinds of things but Indian meat curries tend to be not about
(10:30) see people will say I'm eating fish curry for protein there will be two pieces of fish an entire family will eat you're not getting much protein there so you better having the steamed fish or fine even fried fish occasionally as a separating because then you know that you're getting all of it is protein that you're getting but the but the let's say roti and fish curry so you're talking about even if it is made at home >> correct because uh people think that while you're having protein 1 tbsp of oil is 120 calories is the concept that
(10:59) is being missed. That is number one. >> Exactly. >> The second one is you know what we have been learning in lifestyle medicine is saturated fat if it is more than 10% of your calorie intake >> that increases your risk of chronic diseases. >> Exactly. Right. So gender see this is a it's been a 50 60 year back and forth to try and establish what is the right fat and so on. Right.
(11:22) And then it's very hard to get any kind of conclusion. Right. At best the consensus seems to be that broadly monounsaturated is good, polyunsaturated is good. Conditions apply, right? It should not be that omega 6 to omega3 ratio should not be skewed, which is very common in snacks because they're fried in vegetable oils and so on.
(11:38) >> Just a small thought on that. So deep fried snacks like samosa have more omega 6 compared to omega3. >> Yes. Because they're going to use the cheaper uh vegetable oils which are all going to be higher on omega 6, right? Rather than omega 3. Um and so you overeat that then it's more imbalanced and you you are see you are still getting people see when they when they see something oily they feel it's oily and they feel okay I have avoided this now right but you never intuitively think a samosa is oily actually you
(12:06) never think a biscuit is oily and biscuit is just a lot of fat and it's usually saturated fat because it tend it'll be palm oil >> right so it's just people sometimes um and what I find is that >> in general this is a cultural observation that um we like easy villains right historically I think I the smartest people in the Indian subcontinent from Adishankar's time they've all realized that you can never teach something to Indians um unless you invent an external enemy so all of Hindu philosophy has been about saying external enemy external
(12:42) enemy ashy that horse you let it run and then you kill it and all of that right raana all of this all these external enemies are just metaphors for saying enemy is actually inside >> that's a subtle message >> but you have to tell the story as no the enemy is outside so Indians are still like maida's the villain but the what is the true villain your snacking habit is the villain >> you didn't have to buy the biscuits you don't have to go pick up that thing uh from the candy bar in the office or the biscuits and the samosas right so here
(13:10) so people the harder thing to do is to change your food environment and not eat those things the easier thing is to say maida is the villain And then what that then results in behaviors like I will eat no maida parota no three ata parotas I will eat that's 800 calories of the same low nutrition all carbs that you're getting with a little bit more fiber than the the maida one right so so I think it is just that uh people completely have this distorted uh sense of how they think about these things >> so uh just a little bit on the fat thing
(13:45) um so we're doing some u studies among our patients where >> we are seeing whether is it the carb overload or the fat overload is the reason behind elevated any of your biochemical markers A1C even for A1C levels so one of the thing that we are looking at is the amount of oil that we use but at the same time we are differentiating this okay what is happening with coconut oil versus a seed oil yes >> um and as you know there's a western just bash seed oil like crazy >> yeah I know >> you have a take on seed oils See I think
(14:20) the at least you look at all the meta analysis right broadly speaking uh compared to saturated fat uh seed oils are actually better for you right I mean so it is just that that's what the evidence says right again the foundational issue seems to be that people are forgetting the uh basic fact that your diet is just filled with carbs and fat right and it's very hard to isolate the effect of one >> right in India >> if you're trying to find out whether carbs are the problem or fats are the problem. It's hard because everybody's
(14:51) eating carbs and fat all the time. >> Correct. >> Everything here is deep fried carbs. See, we we are the only ones who consider potato fry to be a subg like it should be considered carbs, right? Uh maybe I mean potato better choice than rice from a glycemic index and other vitamins and all that but it's carbs.
(15:14) A root vegetables are all carbs, right? And then we fried. See in most of the rest of the world sandwich or a burger is culinarily speaking concept is carb protein carb and in between some fiber carb fiber protein carb >> India carb deep fried carb and then uh carb >> aloo tiki burger right potato deep fried cutlet burger veg patty means deep fried potatoes only right it is not some soy it is not some protein not even vegetarian in protein, right? Paneer also it'll be coated in some uh corn starch or some uh you know rice flour or whatever it is and then
(15:54) breadcrumbs and then fried again, right? So everything is deep fried because I can see I can understand historically hot country um we have a bias towards fried food because fried food is safe. It spoils less often. It tends to be drier, less moisture, right? So historically we call fried food as you know paka food.
(16:13) Katcha food is anything that will go bad >> that you can only eat at home. The moment you go outside, which is why when Indians travel, >> we'll always carry things that don't spoil. So fried puri, right? And chapati at home. You never carry chapati outside. You carry puri outside, right? So that's the that's sort of like the >> because it doesn't get bad easily.
(16:31) >> Yeah. Less water. >> Less water. >> Water attracts moisture attracts. >> Moisture is really what see India has foundationally been a battle against moisture. Mhm. >> Uh how can you sort of prevent that? So there's many techniques. You dry it out. You fry it by then dry it, right? Or you ferment which is honestly a better uh method, right? Because you know >> uh but yeah, so fermentation can be tricky.
(16:56) You could end up overspoiling also. But yeah, but generally I think that's a I I would think I think fermentation is one of India's greater contributions. um the sheer scale and the creativity with which at least South Indian cultures do >> which we have not tabbed into that much >> honestly yes because I think it takes it takes a lot of attention and time um and in an urban environment uh you often don't have that you have to constantly monitor and see at what point it's correct and what point it's not safe and so on is that see people sometimes just
(17:27) uh forget see I think you know um at home the idli tastes very different, right? It has a it has that that pleasant sour taste just right and and you know that the second day it's just too sour for Italy, they will switch to making dosa or utapam and other things, right? on the third fourth day it's like utapam that um simply because see one is that it's um uh to be honest super sour you make it palatable by adding more fat >> oil >> right oil right utapam will soak in so much oil right see that is what we end
(18:01) up doing right and then you eat that with other gravy things that will absorb uh and and things like that right so that's why it'll be a lot of holes and so see what happens is that uh people don't realize when you go to a restaurant that Italy is barely fermented. Barely fermented. >> You just taste it and see.
(18:19) It'll never be sour. >> Because if you're running a restaurant, fermentation is extremely risky business >> because you're you're this much away from food poisoning and being shut down, right? So therefore they they reduce that. So you eat a dosa or an idli in a restaurant, you are just eating largely unfermented carbs, refined carbs.
(18:41) There is lit. And by the way at home you will use you have the opportunity to use a good urad dal to rice ratio. >> That's not true in a restaurant barely uses any urad dal. It'll be mostly rice. >> Why is that? >> Cost urad dal is cost likely. >> Yes. Rice is cheap. So obviously it is. So historically in in the south right I mean you sort of see if you're a kipura midi is some the rich would eat one is to1 ratio of dal to rice.
(19:09) Rich it's a privileged this thing right. The moment you go to poorer people the rice to dal ratio falls right I mean more rice less dal >> right and restaurant is again about profits it's about margins it's not a very high margin business >> right especially fast food tiffen and all that so yeah it's never going to be so that's why sometimes you know the these sometimes these old ladies in these small carts where they just make the igli right you can absolutely be certain that it's fermented >> because it's >> because they're made and it's all sold
(19:39) that day they're not running an industrial thing where they cannot waste they have to reuse they have a refrigerator and all that sort of stuff >> right they don't have any of that so they have to control fermentation >> and so yeah >> if if you make Italy at home will you add urad dal more >> yes in fact I would actually suggest that I posted once a very interesting idea um and it was tried in a few uh parts of south India particularly in amongst the for the midday meals in Kerala and schools government schools
(20:09) one of the suggestions was that replace the urad dal with soybeansh >> soybeans is twice as much protein >> protein correct right um and you can ferment it exactly the same way same process you soak the soybean you soak so soak the rice you follow the exact same process uh the idli has a mildly yellowower color because of the soybeans >> tastes really good >> right it is not very it is not an unpleasant taste of any kind and then eventually I got the realization that incidentally you can use any dal >> see actually traditionally We were not
(20:40) using the polished urad, right? >> You would use the blacker one which which again more fiber much healthier. The idli would be slightly coarse one, more darker one and so on. >> You can make idli you replace the dal with rajma again fantastic. Chana also fantastic. Soybeans you can use any dal to make idli actually >> but same fermentation >> same process no difference >> longer hours.
(21:10) see longer soaking time rather than um hours the the the time doesn't really I mean you you will see it there may be some variation uh but again the u see the bulk is still mostly rice and as long as only suggestion is uh by the organic version of the dal because the the that particular fermentation the lactobacteria is there in the the skin of the the dal dal right >> and so the more polished etc etc the less it's likely to have uh so the organic one is more likely to have the the lactobacteria, but you don't break your head. That's why they
(21:42) say no, you put your hands, >> right? So, in those days, they'll say that you mix the dough with your hands because you increase the uh chances that you're also going to transfer, sorry, >> you're going to transfer some bacteria from your hands. >> Isn't it amazing, huh? >> Oh, wow.
(21:59) So that's why in fact in Tamil they say know that kaam in some sense that so some houses some people their hands everybody has a unique see we have unique gut microbiome we also have unique skin micro microb right >> so it's quite interesting that somebody's skin microbiome produces you know tasty >> so that's why you think that the idli made of a handm made flour is slightly tastier than the >> so the taste no so it's not so it's about the taste >> so one is obvious See I think the the strains of bacteria.
(22:30) See the like for example no homemade yogurt no >> has a completely different taste from the yogurt you buy in a store. Uh because the homemade yogurt will have hundreds of different lactobacteria strains. Everything unique to a home and again many people like for example my mother >> has been maintaining that strain for decades >> right every day right take some of that cut next day next day.
(22:53) So it's been uh like you know it's it's like almost a very important inheritance that they make sure that they take forward but uh industrial you cannot risk that because it's very they need they will use one industrial strain that behaves exactly the way they want um and they have the opportunity to just pasteurize it if they need to so that on the shelf it's not sitting and pasteuriz it's not further fermenting right >> uh in many cases you know in many you can't even call that probiotic because at that point bacteria is all dead
(23:21) Right. >> So, so it's just that you might want to uh same thing sort of applies I think every home will have a unique uh condition etc etc >> and again you people who live in the US and all where it's harder to ferment things very ultra hygienic and so on they all you always >> the weather >> it's the weather right colder weather >> fewer bacteria also greater use of antimicrobial products around the house >> generally everything is clean everything is scrubbed everything is like every spray you use is like strongly
(23:51) antimicrobial. Every soap is antimicrobial, right? You know, so everyone is like ultra hygienic all the time. Yeah. >> That's why we call hygiene hypothesis, >> right? Uh so you will not believe there's an increased incidence of autoimmune diseases in US. >> Yeah. >> Among the Indian kids as well. >> Yeah. >> As well.
(24:08) >> Yeah. Yeah. I can imagine. Right. So yeah, >> another that's a it's completely mind-blowing. >> Yes. >> Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, we don't see that often in Indian kids before. >> Yeah. But I have a strong feeling that this hygiene hypothesis is slowly. >> So it's interesting I was reading about a a recent article that was quite a fascinating history of uh peanut allergy in the US.
(24:31) Right? And I think in fact it was I think Dr. Fouchi who who kind of gave this interview saying that possibly one of the biggest mistakes I think the US uh you know the health authorities have made um is taking that hard stance on avoiding peanuts in school and and things like that because they noticed a few cases of allergy and they said okay and people could be so sensitive and he said it made things worse >> right so there is now increasing evidence that exposing children to peanuts after they weaned a little bit over time uh drastically
(25:05) reduces their chances of developing a peanut allergy. >> Let's see because peanut allergy can get like crazy intense meaning that you know somebody ate peanuts in a plane and you could be triggered. >> So it is uh so it got quite crazy beyond a point. Yeah. >> And so many people with those peanut allergies. Yeah.
(25:24) >> So uh coming back to the fermented foods thing right. So what are the other things that you think that we are not focused into in Indian cooking for fermentation? >> See I think uh um see people are familiar with fermenting milk because at the end of the day it's one of the most uh premium um shall we say expensive and very fast spoiling products.
(25:45) Milk spoils very easily. So >> historically there's always been a great incentive to quickly turn that into yogurt to preserve its length. And number two in the south and the east because mostly lactose intolerance is much much more prevalent here um it's better to eat the fermented uh version of milk which is lower in lactose.
(26:03) >> Can you just educate us fermented food milk has lower lactose? >> Yes. Because the bacteria eat the lactose and turn it into lactic acid which is what gives the sourness. Right. >> So that's why for lactose intolerance patients we say sometime it is okay to eat yogurt. >> Yes. So again it depends right.
(26:19) So the the thick yogurt uh that we are familiar with after a day of a few hours of fermentation will still have some lactose. So it might still trigger people who have lactose intolerant. So that's why if you go to deep south where people have very lactose intolerant, they will only eat buttermilk. They'll eat the either or the more which is very very sour.
(26:40) It's been at room temperature for like a day. Right? Then it has little or no lactose where there is bacteria has eaten all the lactose. Right? So then uh yeah so you can absolutely >> but teach me here do you think buttermilk will have more probiotic effect than not necessarily >> no nothing like that is nothing like that see in fact I think people also significantly u overrate uh probiotic versus the prebiotic actually right >> the bulk of the benefits actually come from prebiotic >> right you have to feed your existing bacteria rather than bring new
(27:13) immigrants okay >> so right now given the general sentiment better to feed feed your existing guys then you know get visas for new guys and bring to them right and again see your stomach is going to kill most of them in the stomach acid right um and then your existing gut m bacteria will also kill the newcomers and you have to keep eating over a sustained period of time to introduce new colonies right so but benefits of prebiotic just eating soluble fiber that feeds your uh so that's the simplest thing right people
(27:41) just forget that just eating dal >> and eating some of the um so I also have sort of like this I've realized that there is a like fruits are generally fantastic but uh there are some there are some fruits that are absolutely top tier >> right and there are fruits that are not necessarily great right so I just as I said said the spectrum number one is guava >> right grapes watermelon are relatively at the bottom lower fiber mostly sugar the sugar profile is also more on the spiking side right and so on right so
(28:11) guava is just absolutely the greatest thing you know you can eat and is so cheap >> right the highest sources of vitamin C, huge source of soluble fiber. Correct. >> Right. And so the easiest way is just those kind of fruits, lot of vegetables and uh your uh your dal >> really really just takes care of a lot of your uh uh >> the requirements >> requirements actually >> requirements.
(28:33) If you look at actually the get back to uh profile, >> yeah, >> we know two things. One, the more is better. Yes. >> The variety is better. >> Variety is better. >> Variety is better. As you said, it takes 3 months >> for a particular spectrum to grow. >> Yes. >> And you know, it is like a competitive environment over there. It is. It is.
(28:50) And and by the way, the fact that you can have a like a a week or two of vacation binging of just ultrarocessed deep fried or food that's very low in fiber and you can absolutely like, you know, you can wreck good amount of that population and then it'll take time for you to actually re it. >> That's why we say any patient who has antibiotics.
(29:11) >> Yes. Antibiotics are needed for certain conditions. Yes. But after the antibiotic goes, what the patient eats is absolutely critical. >> Absolutely. >> To replenish. >> Replenish. What is it? So, but generally patients feel like I'm I'm recovering from sickness. >> Yes. >> It has been a while since I've ate nicely.
(29:30) >> Yes. >> So, they go to McDonald KFC. >> Yeah. Know, it's that Yes. >> Don't you don't you think so? >> Yeah. I No, it's it's just that I think sometimes I also feel like uh we've created a um a social media environment where um while people are not just having poor health physiologically, they're also forming an unhealthy relationship to food, >> right? Because um they're all badly in search of knowledge.
(30:01) And knowledge is not coming in the form of a simple four-step thing. That's the only thing you need in food. Prioritize protein and fiber, >> right? Reduce ultra processed food. Keep track of your overall calories, right? Um and and then and then a few other minor things like, you know, keep your eating to, you know, not too late at night and and and those kinds of things, right? But the so the priority list is like this.
(30:26) If then you'll run out of content to make. So everybody is getting their knowledge of oh this is bad, that is good, this is evil, that >> so you always said single ingredient will never make you >> absolutely not. Right. M >> and so people have formed an unhealthy relationship with food >> that they are everyone is now overloaded with this and everybody's searching for easy hacks >> what is the minimum thing I can do to feel good that I have done my bit that means I'm going to go gluten-free I'm going to go you know I'm going to go without maida I'm going to go I'm going
(30:55) to replace uh rice with millet >> and and then then you realize that no those are not what that's not what making the that's not what's really making a difference for you >> that's the real difference is the habit changing. >> It's the larger habit. Yes. And paying attention to and it is so it is it is still you you'd be surprised at how intelligent people who are you know people who have like professional degrees who have reached 60 years old.
(31:20) I am in my family. I find it so difficult to just explain to them what is protein and what is not. Right? They still think dal is protein. Right? They think they'll get all their protein from dal. Right? But they're and they are the worst. They think sambar is a good source of dal. You It's already watered down.
(31:37) >> Watered down. >> It's mostly water and tamarind and tomatoes and chilies. It's a great thing. You know, it's a low calorie. It's not bad at all. Right. But trust me, it's not a protein source. Right. >> That is not a source of protein. >> Yes. Right. And and they completely And then I tell them that at least do something u double your amount of yogurt you eat because that actually is complete protein. Right.
(32:01) That's the only honest complete protein you are getting as a vegetarian, right? Or try switching to Greek yogurt which again is made from sort of skim milk. So it is a little bit more higher. There are now there are this there's this Icelandic drink called skir which is made from skim milk. So it is no fat all protein right and it's not bad.
(32:21) It still tastes like yogurt, right? Little bit slightly chalky because it's higher on protein, but absolutely doable. If you really want to get your use kir as your mix with your rice and eat >> that's what I'm doing. >> It's actually a fantastic taste is really good. The taste is really good. Yeah, absolutely. >> The taste is really good. >> And it's and again it's see because I can't convince them to eat some whey protein powder and all that's not working.
(32:42) >> Okay. So people also cannot change their cultural habits that easily. Right. So it has to be introduced that way. >> In that way. Uh how about um um we're talking about Sorry, I forgot. Oh, >> we're good. Okay. >> Fermentation and then we came. Yeah. >> Okay. I'll revisit this. Um okay. So since you are here, we have to clear this out. Okay.
(33:07) Last time we talked about air fryer. >> Yes. >> And there was there was a lot of >> backlash in terms of Okay. What are you saying? air fryer is good bad and everything. >> So the concept is that see air fryer is okay again the dose dependent you know that that kind of uh effect will not be clinically significant in your uh body.
(33:27) Yeah, >> but I want you to clarify a little bit more about this advanced >> glycation end products at what temperature that we should it's a safe all those things please >> see the advanced glycation end products again as I said >> what matters is your lifetime of uh diet right I mean see if you're like eating barbecue tandoori three times a day your entire life right then you're at a slightly higher risk of those things affecting you they're never practically going to in an Indian diet that's never going to be a thing at all. You could be
(34:00) so here's so again it's a costbenefit analys let's look at a trade-off right if you look at India what are the single most common causes of death is it advanced glycation end products or is it cardiovascular disease just let's be sensible right if heart disease is killing you you know that reducing fat is the simple best way to address that right and what is the best way to reduce fat while you still like crispy food you use air fryer >> air fryer right So the risk of you getting age running into problems with a
(34:33) versus actually reducing cardiovascular risk this is the better benefit. So nothing is going to come with 100% benefit and 0% risk, right? It's all a risk benefit. >> See that's what I said. No, see you know the joke used to be that uh you know for all the cancer scareongering you know what is the single biggest risk of cancer? Living the longer you live the higher the cancer risk.
(34:54) You ask oncologist single highest cancer risk longevity. Cells divide. Every cell division increases cancer risk. The longer you live the higher the rate of cancer. By the time you're 100 the chances that you will get one of these cancers is very high by the way. Right? So it is just that you then it is genetics then then finally it is environmental and whether you're breathing in benzene whether you're living working in a asbestous factory it's those kinds of or you're living in Delhi sorry or if you're living in Delhi for example right do
(35:23) you're breathing that air there right so it is just that people com then food and all of that is such a trivially low part of that right >> that people completely distort the whole thing >> so the other question people had was a teflon coating of that air what is that about? >> See, I think the biggest the biggest complicated myth with retlon polyetylene is that people always confuse the manufacturing process with the final product.
(35:56) Okay? Every controversy you have seen, every Netflix documentary, everything there has always been about the manufacturing process. that the ingredients that go into making it in the factories where those factories were set up. Lot of bad things happened over the last 30 40 years. They polluted the water.
(36:17) Uh the fac the factory workers suffered from a lot of bad problems as a result of the ingredients. Again, I'm repeating there has not been a single documented case of anyone having anything bad as a result of the final product. And it's been like 50 60 years. It's used in surgical sutures. It is if you are if you think it's safe enough to put inside the human body, it is absolutely fine.
(36:38) It is one of the most non-reactive substances on the planet. It does not react with your body. So even in the worst cases where it somehow accumulated because it was a microlastic particle. It is not doing anything because it does not react with anything. >> Most of it if at all even if you accidentally ingest is actually absolutely getting excreted.
(36:56) Right? So therefore this is a non-issue. Again, cost benefit, health benefit, right? Trade-off. If you have a history of family heart disease, >> right? The doctor has told you cut down on oil, >> right? What is the most practical way to do that with Indian cooking which always needs a lot of oil? >> You use a non-stick pan.
(37:17) It'll allow you to cook your side dish. It'll allow you to make your omelette without oil. It'll allow you to make your side dish and subji with very little oil. >> Why do you add oil? Because it'll stick to the pan. No, see you see for convenience you're adding more oil and then you're spoiling your own health only. >> Oil is not for taste.
(37:33) >> Huh? >> Oil >> also but trust me you you try you see can you make an omelette in a stainless steel pan? You can by adding a lot of oil. >> Uh see that's the point. So it is you see the point is that uh that if over a long period of time if somebody's using a non-stick pan for 10 years imagine the amount of oil reduction they are able to achieve in their diet and look at the health benefit of that versus the remotely near zero risk that they burnt the pan at such a high temperature that the teflon broke down and then they
(38:10) inhaled those fumes. Or you show me one example of someone who has actually inhaled those fumes >> and had some serious consequences. You know the funny thing so far in the last 40 years there has been only one case of someone inhaling teflon fumes. >> And by the way that guy had no problems. He had he had some breathing trouble for about a day.
(38:32) He completely made a recovery with no long-term consequences because I think you know people it's very tempting to kind of say oh industry plastic and immediately people associate plastic with all things bad it's true right everywhere around the world environmentally plastics are a huge problem let's also appreciate that right that you finish your pan and you throw that pan out that plastic is going into the environment it's going into the soil it's not doing any good right >> so in an ideal world if you're ecologically conscious you want to use
(39:01) products that do not use plastic, right? And in that sense it makes sense. Lot of non-stick pans in the world. People we are also telling them once moments it is it is a little bit broken please discard it. So people are buying every one year they're buying a new pan and they're throwing that pan out. >> But that's not needed.
(39:16) >> No in the sense that see you don't have to like throw it in a year and all that and you don't have to break your head unless it is very very damaged. See if you use a other thing right and I will tell them using a teflon pan use a silicone spatula then you will not scratch the pan. People will use stainless steel and teflon and damage it right because they think the silicone spatula is also plastic that also is bos that silicone is such is so resistant to high heat.
(39:46) It is used in industrial settings. >> Guys wear it in factories and furnaces and all they wear silicone rubber. You do not have to worry about it. And again, that's a material that plastic surgeons used to put inside the body. It's don't break your head about its safety at all. >> Sorry to interrupt, but I really need to say this about my mission and passion.
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(40:25) Because real lasting change never comes from one diet plan or one gym coach. It comes from having the right team around you. In new me, I have put together actual doctors, clinical dieticians, life coaches, mental health therapists, sleep specialist, physiootherapist, and the 247 virtual gym with yoga, Zumba, strength training and aerobics all in one place.
(40:48) And if you're someone who have tried everything and nothing has truly worked long-term and you're looking for a lifetime change, new me is for you. But a small request, don't join if you're looking for a quick fix. This is for only people who truly want to transform their health for good. This is my mission. This is my passion.
(41:05) If I change one person's life, I know I'm changing the whole family. Link is in the pinned comment. Now, let's get back to the podcast. >> Because you're so vocal about all these things. Another controversial topic is microplastics. >> Yeah. >> So, there is data where microplastics are getting exposed and we seeing in the blood vessels of the caroted artery.
(41:24) >> No, microplastics are in breast milk. No, >> breast milk. Yeah, they're in sperm, breast milk. They're everywhere now. >> Cow's milk, some >> cows milk. Yeah. Yeah. Everything has eggs. Everything now has they're in your vegetables. Um, and here's the interesting thing. So, you so you slice some, cut some apples, and put put it on on a plate, right? In 10 minutes, microplastics are settling uh onto the apples from the air.
(41:44) >> From the air. >> Yeah. You can be inside your house, microplastics are still settling because um so it's a it's an interesting subject. had actually posted a video where say that the hard part of that subject is we know it's a problem >> right but we don't know how to solve it >> because um you know what do you think is the largest source of microplastics single source from where the microplastics come into our air >> pollution >> it is vehicle it's tires >> ah >> we drive vehicles that uh that that neoprene rubber
(42:20) >> is that right >> yeah So as you drive and you break you do all of that microplastics actually that breaks and it gets into the air. That's how the largest source of microplastic pollution is just vehicles. >> Nobody ever thinks about that. You immediately think no no microplastic in the food microplastic from once by mistake I ordered something from Swiggy Zomato. I microwaved that.
(42:47) Oh my god I am being polluted by microplastics. That's a tiny tiny tiny fraction compared to what you're breathing every day >> compared to what's in your drinking water unless you have a reverse osmosis. >> Right? So you are it's everywhere and the problem is so far we will still need a few more years to find out what actual effect it's having on the body.
(43:08) >> We know it's in our body >> and we know in extreme cases uh certain sizes could trigger inflammation and increase cancer risk and so on. But we've not seen we've not seen it uh become a crisis uh clinically yet. Right? So once we know that then we don't know but again as I said how are you going to fix vehicles as a problem? >> Right? Unless you change the material in the tire which you cannot we have not found another material for the last 100 years.
(43:35) >> I I'll tell you the concept. I saw a patient in my office. Okay. So he had a stainless steel bottle. Okay. >> And then he said he's coming in for fatty liver. >> Okay. >> Okay. and he's overweight. >> We are talking about he's asking about mjaro and all those things. Okay. >> Yes. >> I said what is this? He says stainless little bottle.
(43:54) >> Why are you doing this? Because I need to avoid microplastics. >> Okay. Okay. >> And then he starts drinking. I said what are you drinking? >> He says CC. >> This is exactly the problem. This is exactly that uh uh double patty, extra cheese burger, extra large fries and diet coke. >> Diet coke. >> Diet coke.
(44:14) So this is the Yeah. >> So you are convinced I mean I am convinced that when a pay there is uh something called health optimization >> correct >> and health normalization. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, it is also a simple hierarchy of risk, right? And people have trouble understanding probability, right? >> That um >> anytime you see a headline that says that, oh my god, the presence of this, you know, uh this metabolite in this particular thing increases cancer risk by 100%.
(44:45) Most people immediately think it's a deadly serious thing. But actually the base original risk of that cancer itself is 0.1 that became 0.2. two that is 100% increase. The headline is 100% increase. Nobody told you that it was a trivial risk to begin with. It is still a trivial risk.
(45:03) Now it is not meaningful at all right you are still living in Delhi going out breathing uh polluted air you are still doing all of this stuff that is a much higher risk right so I think so people are foundationally it's it again goes back to the same thing that people do a nice interesting trade-off between what they consider as risk versus how much personal effort are they willing to put to change their lifestyle >> and they pick the one that is the optimal mix of both.
(45:34) Is it easy for me to avoid all snacks? No. But I can avoid maida. >> I eat millet snacks which will have more fat, more salt to make it more palatable. >> So it's just that people are and then there is enough content on social media that will tell them that that is correct. >> That's correct. >> Ghee is a superfood.
(45:51) >> You you drink put turmeric and drink with milk everyday morning till your blood thins. >> Right. Right? So you have people do all of these or you would damage your liver, right? So it is just that people do these they see content and they're not and and and you know so as a doctor you'd realize right that it takes you thousands and thousands of pages and practicals this thing to get a holistic big picture knowledge of how the body works.
(46:18) >> Correct. >> Right. >> But people are of the belief that a 90cond Instagram really explains to them how a body works. They they confuse content with knowledge, right? They don't realize that actually they should see everybody's videos, yours, mines, and everybody else's. This is not knowledge. It's content. >> It's primarily content, right? You have to learn to trust experts.
(46:42) You have to learn. Don't trust experts. Trust expertise. >> Right? See, we've, you know, I just recently made a video where I just just simply listed out what are the six things that have collectively saved more human lives than anything else. As in the single greatest contributions to human life, right? In terms of increasing our population, preventing deaths and so on.
(47:02) And most people won't realize what they are. It is things like washing your hands before surgeries, right? It is basic things like uh inventing fertilizers >> that allowed people to not starve, right? Um um it is it is things like antibiotics >> right it is things like uh vaccines right uh actually vaccines uh by eliminating smallox there were 300 billion people died right I mean it's just insane what vaccines were able to do right so it is just that these some of these very basic scientific breakthroughs uh sometimes people don't
(47:32) appreciate when they just simply see one video that says that drink some hot water with ghee and some bullet coffee and something like that in the morning some celebrity comes and says Um and then people are like drinking 2 tbsps of ghee in the morning like some 400 calories of some just pure fat right and thinking it'll do some magical uh >> see that's the other problem you know like when we say moderation there is no like a clear thing what is moderation for example ghee saturated fat >> same thing more than 10% saturated fat
(48:06) will increase your >> see ghee see ghee is a tricky thing because it is 50% saturated fat But see, no fat is 100% saturated, right? Actually, coconut oil, coconut oil saturated fat, but ghee and all that is 50% saturated fat. The monounsaturated fat is a pretty good profile >> compared to other saturated fat sources, right? Um, but all of that.
(48:28) So, uh, then again, so what happens is that um the problem with moderation often is that people don't realize that it's your total amount of fat intake that matters much more than choice of fat. >> Correct. Exactly. See if you are you know the American Heart Association that 500 ml of oil >> is how much you should eat in a month.
(48:49) >> Correct. That's one tablespoon a day. People are eating two tablespoons in the morning with hot water and in their empty stomach and all that right and then they're eating biscuits. Then they're eating other things. The I I had imagine that the average Indian is consuming three times that recommended amount of fat.
(49:08) Fat easily, right? If you just look at our calorie profile daily, >> it is so heavily tilted in favor of carbs and fat. >> Particularly if you're vegetarian, you're going to pack all your calories in carbs and fat, >> right? You know, that is why it is even more important to avoid ultrarocessed food as much as possible. >> Yeah.
(49:24) Because see, no, so in the sense that look see if you're a uh in India. The weird thing about India is that content is seen by uh if you especially make content in Indian languages, it will be seen by the day laborer, it will be seen by the watchman, it'll be seen by the watchman's kids and will be seen by the South Bombay millionaire, right? And so when when somebody says ultrarocessed food is just universally bad, it means different things.
(49:48) See for the for the day laborer the guy is not getting enough calories for him he absolutely needs to eat otherwise he he will have other problems. See first you have to get bare minimum calories that is for existence after that you have to make sure that those calories are balanced right first you have to live right >> so I think so this India is always a very tricky thing where a lot of content is sort of tilted towards a very privileged uh audience right u but at the end of the day that increasingly the portion of India that's watching all of
(50:16) this and now starting to move from poverty into this middle class right they are now seeing all these things and getting confused about hey you know I've grown up my life right? Eating uh palm oil simply because that was the oil that I got in the Russian shop. Right? And they're all absolutely fine because they were never getting enough calories where they're never getting a calorie surplus and all that right see uh so it was never a so if you if you see in India right >> if you see sort of prevalence of diabetes and all that right
(50:46) >> it very rarely is correlated very directly with things like ultrarocessed food and all because India in generally ultrarocessed food consumption is small it's increasing >> but it's relatively small compared to the west >> it largely tracks with wealth right The moment people are poor, they simply don't get enough calories.
(51:04) They have lesser risk of diabetes. Correct. >> You know, it's a very tragic thing. >> They have risk of communicable diseases. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and then by the way, in India, in many cases in in in villages, diabetes is a disease of wealth. >> Correct. >> So people actually think, oh, you have diabetes or you must be wealthy now.
(51:20) Right. So now when you get to the cities, it's become a serious problem because you have not bothered to introspect that your your foundational diet is the problem. M >> you have you still eat like you're working in the fields but you're working nothing right now right you're not moving an inch >> right you're not walking to school you're not walking to the field the amount of time you spend even standing has reduced you're not exercising and you're eating like a guy who's going and to work in the fields >> right all are breakfast all carbs name a
(51:52) protein breakfast in India nothing everything is all carbs idli vada puri paratha UpMa, Poha, even the modern invented ones are all cubs like UPMA and all >> and you know there was this uh study done by ICMR that most the reason behind this increased risk of non-communicable diseases is more carb 60% right yes exactly right see I think the it is also very tricky for them because see they are also putting this out and they know that everyone in the media everyone is going to comment on it and they going to reach a wide audience right
(52:24) >> so they also have to have a play a very delicate balance Because see India has maybe 20 to 100 million privileged rich people >> it has 700 million people in that just that middle class lower middle class layer right then a large number of people who literally depend on the state for food they're not getting enough calories right 20% of India barely gets enough calories there's like wasting right they're not the kids are not even like hitting like the adults in many states you will find that they're so short they don't need they're just not
(52:52) even getting enough calories and so on so in India it's always tricky to provide any kind of universal advice because it all depends on context >> right so which is why I find it particularly golly when somebody will just make one video saying palm oil is bad >> boss that is what significant number of poor people that is their source of fat >> right trust me most of them are not overeating that they can't afford it is a special occasion thing right so it is you so again if you are have a diet that is fish curry right if you are a coastal
(53:25) community getting fish curry eating the the high fiber that red rice kind of thing, right? And occasionally using palm oil for something like that. I would argue that's actually reasonably healthy diet to to what a lot of rich people in India are getting. >> Yes. >> Yeah. They're actually they're mostly many of those things they're going to get fermented.
(53:43) >> They'll keep the fish curry over the next day. Uh the rice also they'll put it under water. Next day it'll get pro it'll become again probiotic, right? Um and increase in resistant starch, right? they're getting protein and they're getting fat. So I think you know it is just that see fat for the most part just simply and again you have an opportunity to fortify the fat with all the fats soluble vitamins which so people blaming refined oil and the cold pressed and all that no >> I said all that is fine if your diet is
(54:14) getting all your fats soluble vitamins from food fantastic you go eat your coldressed oil because it's very tasty right but in a country with so much deficiencies and all of that please eat iodized salt You do not if you're right you're not you're not getting if you're living inside in outside the coast you're not getting iodine anywhere right you don't want to risk that it's a serious thing right >> Himalayan pink salt has no iodine no iodine >> okay >> you don't please don't you know play with the the lives of your children
(54:41) right so they are fortified in refined oil so you don't have to think you're getting it ek you're getting from just using your daily cheap refined oil >> right >> again it's the amount of fat that matters rather than whether you're eating a cold press >> and all the That's just fancy posturing. See, it's almost I think you know the it's like a curve graph where as you eat healthy healthier healthier choices you get healthier outcomes and at some point it starts to flatten.
(55:10) All the content on social media is focused on the flatten. No, no, you must eat blueberry, you must eat uh >> to optimize >> A2G that is optimization of the trivial >> trivial. uh so when the when a patient comes with GI problem with me invariably underlying inflammation is because of obesity >> in that patient we don't look into health optimization we help look into health regularization like normalization >> yes >> for that the amount should be decreased rather than focusing on this just first reduce but again so you could be smart
(55:41) about it you can see sometimes people find it tough to reduce things they love >> right so you cannot just switch someone out from no you're not eating this anymore you're going to eat something that to hate then they will they will regress. >> Correct. >> Right. I mean you as a doctor you would know right? in India in general right people do not even uh you give them a course of medicine even statins they will not eat every day they will intelligently decide when they feel like eating when they don't feel like eating
(56:09) right and so people are very reckless here when it comes to this right they will just directly go to the pharmacist and prescribe themselves among and medicines and they will just describe their uh you know their symptoms and the guy will cooly give uh things he should not be giving you and so on so in that sense I think you Um I it's almost as if I think the hardest thing for doctors to do >> um is to be able to personalize uh the change.
(56:35) >> Correct. >> And I I think here is also where I feel um AI should significantly help doctors, right? And that you could you could use AI to help design like a deeply personalized diet that is practical uh for them, right? So because as a doctor you you may not know what the cultural eating habits India are so diverse, >> right? um you may have a person who traditionally from a community where they only eat say red meat, they only eat this, they only eat that and so on.
(57:03) You can't just go in and say you will not eat that. So it's almost as if you need to have a segment of one way of advising them and saying hey okay so you you can switch to this you can switch to a slightly leaner this thing and then you you try this. So every bit of advice might need to be personalized and I'm hoping that eventually we kind of get there because otherwise people will simply not follow at all.
(57:23) >> Not follow at all. So there's a bigger problem of this antibiotics thing. You know there was a recent study AIG hydrobat that's a hospital they released that >> this is a gastroenterological institute. They came in for a simple routine procedures. >> Yes. >> And they were not symptomatic. >> Yes. >> But they were able to identify drugresistant bacteria.
(57:46) >> Oh yes. >> Within them. >> Oh yes. >> Okay. >> So usage of antibiotics is not being controlled that much. It's a bigger problem. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yes. But how is that translating into your the favorite discussion that everybody has is broiler chicken >> right? >> Yeah. >> So let me just give you the context. So broiler chicken people are concerned that hey you know this is an antibiotic >> uh so you should not eat.
(58:08) But we know that that is not getting absorbed in the body directly. So broiler chicken is >> for any kind of protein consumption it is okay. >> Yes it is okay. But a bigger ecological problem is antibiotic exposure to the broiler chicken is like getting exposed to the antibiotic resistant bacteria. >> Absolutely.
(58:26) That is actually as I I think that so with most of these things right so uh you will always end up with these dilemma of trade-offs where like India's biggest health problem is not getting enough protein. >> Correct. >> Right. At this point, drug resistant bacteria is a ticking time bomb for the future. It's not a serious problem yet.
(58:49) >> Which one will you prioritize? Right? So, the interesting thing is that on the one hand, for just for people to be absolutely clear, >> see that typically uh you know when you take antibiotics, you're going to excrete most of that, metabolize that pretty quickly mostly and the chicken will do the same thing, right? So, you have to remember that it break it down and the liver will get it out, right? Um so any antibiotic residue that is left behind in the chicken you are only seeing a small fraction of the situation
(59:16) where it was given the antibiotic very uh just before it might have been killed which is highly unlikely. >> So you have to think that it's going to be again a small fraction of birds that are probably going to have still the active antibiotic in their this thing. So for starters people thinking that they are consuming the antibiotic correct that's probably not happening right that's probably not happening the second issue that you mentioned that is the far more issue that is the issue worth paying attention to
(59:46) >> which is that if they are giving antibiotics right >> some of that antibiotic is just simply going to be around in that environment and drugresistant bacteria will evolve in those powdery farms. Now when one of those uh bacteria switches from bird to human then you could have a problem. Right. >> Correct. >> We went through something similar in 2020.
(1:00:10) So it's there in everybody's mind except that we still you know while we know there's a lot of theories and conspiracy theories about how it began but we know over history right a lot of communicable diseases largely began as a result of proximity to animals. Um as we started doing animal husbandry diseases had an opportunity to uh jump from um everything from small pox to chickenpox everything all originated in in animals right in cows or pouty >> and so on.
(1:00:36) It's proximity to these animals that you know brings these things right. So the only thing again is that it say is so you have to you have to balance between a problem you can solve now versus a problem that we know might be a problem later but we are hoping that uh technology will get uh advanced enough that I'll be able to design a drug for it when that happens >> with mRNA or any of these new uh fancy new you know genetic engineering techniques uh and so on right so in a sense I think you know I I know it's tricky right so it um you cannot worry about every risk all
(1:01:11) the time, right? So I would I will prioritize protein over that that potential future risk of antibiotics at this point. At this point >> do you believe in this freerange chicken organic? >> See this is so this is again a classic u um rich people always like wanting to believe that the things that they can afford are significantly better than the things that poor people can afford.
(1:01:33) It's it's an important element of their lives, right? But unfortunately when it comes to food the data doesn't show that right. Um >> data significantly shows that consuming more vegetables is associated with more diversity of plants is what we have uncontroversial proof that is great for you. >> More plants more diversity of plants.
(1:01:54) >> But there is no difference between whether you consume it organic or not organic. >> Right? See because the problem is that uh as long as it is diversity right people don't realize that it is just simply impractical for you to do everything in an organic fashion right >> you may get one organic banana but you're still consuming most other things in in the regular way and people also don't realize that a lot of organic is just branding marketing okay >> um >> it's not truly organic it's not truly organic I mean again what is truly
(1:02:25) organic is if you grow it behind in your backyard where you know how you're growing that is organic. >> The moment somebody else is growing it, unless it's someone you trust, it's simply not practical. Nobody who's going into business wants to risk a pest coming and wiping out their crop. >> So organic does not mean zero pesticide.
(1:02:42) It means organic pesticides. >> There are a list of pesticides that are considered organic pesticides. >> FYI, organic pesticides are significantly more toxic than synthetic pesticides. Why? Because synthetic pesticides have been ridiculously designed in a lab to be as least toxic as possible.
(1:03:05) So they can kill only the pest while as being as little harmful to the human as possible. But organic pesticides they are just all kinds of random things. There are some copper sulfate and all they use that's bad for you also. >> Right? So you go look up list of organic pesticides. Many of them are not good at all.
(1:03:22) Right? So the point is that just because you know people will take this dried neem powder they'll crush it they'll extract the thing and then apply that it's poisonous for you also >> right the neem leaf is not poisonous but the plant absolutely produces a a toxin that's what keeps the neem tree free of insects that it is bad for you also >> so I think that's the foundational issue that don't break your head over those things right um if you are picking organic pick it because you you trust that person who's growing that >> and you find it tastier. In many cases,
(1:03:55) organic uh uh fruits and vegetables will be tastier uh because again the plant fights back uh against those pest and produces more flavor molecules and spices and all those things. So it's going to have more flavor. An organic tomato sometimes will be tastier than not. >> But the bigger doesn't mean better. >> No, absolutely.
(1:04:14) >> Bigger is actually might be worse. >> See, bigger bigger generally means that the plant experience no pests at all. So it'll have little or no flavor. >> That's all it is. And again nutrients also little or no difference. Again the core nutrients >> is more a function of soil quality and things like that.
(1:04:30) >> So so we're concluding that it is still okay to eat broyal chicken to meet your protein requirements. >> Absolutely right. I mean see I think see um again it's a case of not getting enough protein will harm you significantly more than the borderline trivial risk >> that you're eating some broiler chicken where some antibiotic residue >> uh got into it and so on right that's ex going to be exceedingly rare >> but if you're eating less protein for years that damage is very hard to undo >> much more the organic and inorganic is
(1:05:02) it true for the animal based product as Same thing. >> See again as I said many of these so people sometimes kind of I think regularly confuse between moral preferences and actual performance preferences right so your body has no opinion on the morality of the food once it goes inside it is just nutrients >> it doesn't matter whether it is jaggery organically made you paid the farmer very nicely the animal was treated very kindly those are moral considerations ecological moral your body doesn't care right so you separate out both of those
(1:05:35) You focus on the body first. Are you getting you're getting it? You're now comfortable. Then use the rest of your mental bandwidth to care for animals, to care about the planet, to care for all of that. The fact of the matter is some people will have no bandwidth to care for that.
(1:05:51) And we have to be empathetic to that. >> If you can care for it, by all means, but don't judge people who don't care about that. Right? So all of those other considerations about organic, right? Yes. If you believe that that person is doing a great job and he's conserving and he's doing circular agriculture and it's long-term great for the planet, eat it, support it, promote it, but don't look down on somebody who cannot afford that five times expensive ghee or five times expensive uh meat or or vegetables and so on. That's the point. Wow.
(1:06:20) >> Wow. Wonderful point. Wonderful point. So I like you because the way that you come across is that always you say convenience is always the first thing. >> Yeah. >> So I want you to break these points that I my patients are finding it difficult too. So you know I'm a big proponent of >> um timerestricted feeding where we don't eat late at night and the common question that I get is you know you guys are living in the US so you refrigerating food and you don't have a choice but you are losing nutrients so we will never refrigerate. We always
(1:06:52) prepare fresh. >> Yeah. >> Please educate us again about is refrigeration okay or not. >> Look I so if you are privileged enough where you can pay someone or you can exploit your wife to cook fresh for you three times a day by all means go for it. It's great. Amazing. No doubt at all because the food is going to be tasty.
(1:07:15) You're going to enjoy it. You know no complaints there. Right. Um but for the vast majority of us that's eating fresh three times a day is simply not an option right we don't have grandmothers and mothers and uh uh people sitting at home and cooking you can't afford to cook and so on uh you're regularly eating out and more importantly in India now you're regularly ordering in it's a bigger thing right where traffic and people are just simply ordering in they're not like sitting in Bangalore traffic going eating at a restaurant they're just
(1:07:42) ordering it in um if you're not realizing that yesterday's This food, fish curry, chicken curry, and rice that you refrigerated that you eat the next day is a significantly healthier choice than the fresh food that you order from a restaurant that day, then you're being delusionary.
(1:08:04) Any calorie, the amount of calories in any restaurant food is three times. They will add more fat. That's why they make it tasty. They will add more sugar. They will add more salt. All of these things make the average restaurant dish have two to three times more calories than whatever you made. Right? >> Our ancestors did not have fridges.
(1:08:25) >> So therefore they have no way of knowing what a fridge does. >> You cannot rely on Ayurveda to give you an opinion on a fridge. There were no fridges back then. Right? How how can they get to have an opinion on right? The fridge came only like some you know 30 40 years back in India. Right? A fridge.
(1:08:45) We know from 200 years of science that low temperature basically microbial activity all but completely stops. >> Obviously beyond a certain point of time eventually. Yes. Right. So therefore day two even a week nothing is getting lost. Again remember right see protein fat and carbs >> there is nothing happening. Basic law of conservation nothing is happening in the fridge. It's still there.
(1:09:12) The only question to ask is is it losing minerals? No, minerals won't go anywhere. Where are they going? This zinc and iron and that's going nowhere. Only thing you're thinking about is micronutrients and that two water soluble micronutrients like vitamin C and vitamin B which again over time exposure to oxidation they will go down right again remember heating destroys water soluble micronutrients more than cooling and time right.
(1:09:39) So therefore, effectively speaking, short of it spoiling as a result of bacterial or fungal fermentation, you are losing absolutely nothing. >> In many cases, I would argue eating yesterday's rice, you're eating more resistant starch, >> right? >> Because actually if you're given India as a diabetic, they think actually everybody, all these old people should be eating yesterday's rice.
(1:10:03) They should not be eating fresh rice. >> Quick fix, >> right? But culturally Yeah. No, forget putting it in water. I'm just saying that even just putting it in the fridge and eating it the next day. >> Actually, if you see Chinese practice of making fried rice, it's never with fresh rice. >> It's always with refrigerated yesterday's rice.
(1:10:21) >> Japanese, Koreans, all of them. Fried rice, they take the rice out of the fridge and then make because it's drier uh and less moisture, so it it doesn't stick. The culinary reason again, health reason, it's going to have much much more resistant starch, right? So therefore remember that simply cooking ahead and again as I said if you meal prep and if you you spend the weekend and make it life easier like you cook uh large batch of cha large batch of dal just put it in the fridge and then that way you you will spend 10 minutes to
(1:10:54) make your dish then you get the added advantage of fresh food also >> but with ingredients that are already prepared. M >> so you have to see I think uh the refrigerator is one of the greatest methods for you to eat healthy >> right old food is absolutely better than any restaurant cooked fresh food that's the point >> how about u you know like reheating reheating will they lose any nutrients >> again the only thing you lose is micronutrients water soluble vitamins and the phyto phytonutrients like those antioxidants and and those kinds of
(1:11:30) things. Um again it depends like for example um uh reheating in a pan, boiling etc. you will lose the most. Uh steaming you will lose a little bit less because it a little bit more gentle. >> Correct. >> Uh microwave you will lose the least. >> So that's the thing right? So people think actually microwave destroys nutrients.
(1:11:50) I destroys the least amount of >> why does microwave lose the least >> least? Because see what happens in a in a in a in a regular pan. No the heat source is very hot. It's like thousand° below >> and then the metal has to transfer to the water and then the water has to heat from there. So you have to apply a lot of heat and then so that some heat comes to the top.
(1:12:08) >> So the stuff at the bottom is actually getting heated to a very high temperature. So it's losing a lot of those micronutrients well ahead of time. >> When it comes to steam because it's water vapor, right? You're not exposing the food to the hot water at all. It's only vapor. Vapor is again density is low.
(1:12:25) So it's more gently uh heating the food. So you the a lot of the vitamin C and vitamin B the molecules don't break and so on. In a in a in a microwave advantage is time. The steaming you have to do for 20 minutes. >> Okay. Microwave is 30 seconds. So the amount of time and the other thing that's happening is the food is not heating from the outside.
(1:12:45) It's heating from the inside. Microwave only heats the water molecules inside the food. So the heat travels very quickly and evenly in 30 seconds. So you've simply not have enough time to destroy all of the vitamin C, vitamin B and all of that. So it's about time right? So that is why actually the if you want to reheat food that is the best way to do it >> just put it in a microwave safe vessel and reheat heat it.
(1:13:08) >> But in India people are concerned that the radiation can cause cancer the same thing. >> No. Uh again so the India is the only place where people think ultraviolet radiation from the sun won't cause cancer and microwave will cause cancer. It's the exact opposite. And Indians will not wear sunscreen and all that, okay? Because they think, "Oh, sun can never hurt me.
(1:13:29) " You have to realize that there is UV. It's by the way that's UV is how you make vitamin D. Okay? Um and it why are Indians darker skinned? It's because to protect us from the cancerous uh rays of the sun that we have melanin. Melanin absorbs that and prevents DNA damage. Right? So that's the whole point. So that's what I'm saying.
(1:13:48) You can either make vitamin D or you can you can be uh uh or you can protect yourself from cancer. Right? skin cancer, right? There is gamma rays, x-rays, ultraviolet. These are the what you call cancer causing ionizing radiation because they have the ability sorry they have the ability to go and change the DNA.
(1:14:06) >> They have enough energy to penetrate straight into the nuclei and have enough energy to break the uh make changes in your uh in your genes, right? Uh in the DNA then there is visible light which is how we see each other, right? From visible light onwards it's nonionizing. Then even less energy than that after that is infrared which is how the the broiler in the thing that heats in the oven.
(1:14:33) No that red glow that is infrared right and also why when you go out in the sun why does your head get hot >> that's again infrared radiation from the sun right >> that's even less energy than visible light and then less than that is microwave. So microwave has less energy than visible light. So if you think microwave causes cancer then looking at each other should also cause cancer.
(1:14:53) So this is a simple way of you know explaining to people that yeah so and by the way your cell phones are all microwave >> or >> they use microwave frequencies for communicating with the tower >> by the way incidentally why a lot of people also believe that cell phones >> causes brain cancer >> causes brain cancer and so on.
(1:15:10) No it doesn't yes >> is it dose different at all? No, not at all. >> Nothing at all. Even not even. >> See, I think as I said, no, see, look, um, if you are physically sitting inside, of course, it's going to heat up the water inside and that burn will then cause inflammation, which again therefore then is associated, right? I would suggest people not try it at home.
(1:15:30) >> So, Chris, you have been in the US and you know how a US uh cooking system is, right? So, all the house comes along with their oven. >> Yeah. And Americans use oven a lot more. >> Oh yes. >> Than us. >> Yes. >> And we use the oven to store the utensils. >> Yes. >> Because of the >> also to do your curd fermentation.
(1:15:51) >> Curd fermentation. >> Dosa batter. Yes. >> Why is the oven concept not caught up among Indian? Because I feel like the infrared radiation that you're saying is also helping in decreasing the oil and gas. Absolutely. >> Why is that? >> So I know see I think it's more practical. It also has to do with uh uh fuel, right? And I think um western countries have had access to electricity and gas and things like that for a much longer time, right? U so even prior to uh electricity and gas.
(1:16:24) The ovens were powered by wood fire >> which again is in the west is exceedingly common. Everybody the standard culture 300 years ago is for you go chop firewood. You permanently keep the firewood uh uh in in for part of your house and then you put it and then in the evening you just start kindling it and then that is becoming there you the chimney in the oven everywhere you know you have wood fire right woodf fire oven pizza and all that right >> um >> so if you notice that that's never a thing in in this part of the world for
(1:16:51) starters the density of population is so high firewood is >> except when you're living in a in like a village and things like that where you would use firewood and firewood as a stove and so on uh this is not something uh that would be common. If you go to villages in Punjab, the tandoor absolutely is is significantly more common.
(1:17:08) It's very similar to that oven because that they they absolutely do baking at very that to very high temperature. But for most of the rest of India, as we became crowded cities, a tandoor is impractical. The temperature is too high. Okay? >> Uh it's a fire hazard, right? So you need to be in an open village for that to be a practical thing.
(1:17:26) So for the most part, we actually use a lot less fuel uh for cooking uh than the west does. So the oven kind of thing doesn't it never caught on because it's you it need a lot of time and a lot of fuel it's very fuel inefficient. Mhm. >> So a lot lot of choices they have made that are so for example you consider Chinese cooking no lot of stir fry ultra high heat everything is chopped into tiny ingredients with one goal reduce amount of cooking fuel >> you blast it and and cooking gets done in 30 seconds. So you use very little
(1:17:59) fuel right but you have to chop everything really really into tiny pieces and so on right so many of these things are products of geography and the what availability of fuel and things like that so that's why we have not adopted the convection oven so now I mean now obviously microwaves are becoming a lot more common and in fact in India now people who >> can afford >> get into baking and cakes and bread and all of that they buy the oven toaster grill that's the small size >> small convection oven.
(1:18:29) >> And now obviously the the even more convenient version of the OTG is now the air fryer. >> Air fryer. >> It's a it's an air fryer is just a convection oven. It's a smallsized version of what you get in your US where you store your utensils. >> Yeah. It's a small enclosure version of the exact same thing. >> Exactly. Yeah.
(1:18:46) So it is just a convection oven that uses hot air. >> Oh. >> Uh to cook. That's the whole idea. >> But in the US we have both air fryer and also >> Yeah. So again because you have to see you have to preheat the oven for half an hour, 15 minutes. See it's a timeconuming thing right? So size right then you put a giant turkey one full bird and huge amount of meat and all of that and a big pieces of bread.
(1:19:06) >> Do you have a convection oven in your house? >> Yes. >> So I have a small I so I for convenience sake I have a what's called a combo oven >> which has essentially I can switch between microwave and uh convection. >> Oh >> yeah. So it's a conven so you don't like two devices. >> Oh >> yeah.
(1:19:22) So it has both the convection fan and the other thing and it has microwave also. So I you switch between both and regularly you know once you make a mistake if you put it in microwave mode for some of that it will absolutely like microwave will just absolutely destroy your bread >> and it completely dry it out. >> There's no moisture. >> Yeah.
(1:19:39) Yeah. It'll completely dry it out right. So yeah >> give me example of how do you use your oven and microwave. >> So oven a lot less often because it's a lot more effort. You still have to preheat. >> Uh so I primarily use it for doing things like baking bread once in a while. And again, it's purely more of a uh you know, you like doing that rather than something that's genuinely useful on a day-to-day basis. Okay.
(1:20:00) Uh so if you wanted to make like sourdough bread and and those kinds of things, uh you would use an oven. Uh >> microwave on a regular basis, you use >> microwave, I mean all through the day. >> All through the day. In fact, there are now very creative ways in which you can like so you can like so for example, you could make a uh uh a microwave omelette, right? So most people I keep telling people that one of the best ways you can just simply get protein is just to eat more eggs a day, right? Don't fall for the oh my god the egg yolk has
(1:20:28) cholesterol and all of that. No, eggs are absolutely fine, right? Um and then so you just simply >> one concern is that I'm sorry I need to bring this up. So eggs are again rich in saturated fat. Correct. But there is a concern that more saturated fat. >> Yeah. But but you look at the overall profile and the number of the bene beneficial things that are in the egg yolk no choline and so many other things that it is a net net actually absolutely fine right um and you get uh you get a fair amount of uh protein a very high
(1:20:59) quality protein six times >> and say as I said I think you if you're eating say three eggs a day then you adjust the amount of fat elsewhere also that's all it is that's all there is right so I'm just saying that the convenience say if you want to eat an omelette you have to take a pan you have to mix it and washing all of that. No.
(1:21:14) So, you have that ceramic bowl. Uh just break an egg. Just line it with just a little bit of brush some oil or butter. That's it. Brush. You don't have to put much fat. Um and then uh just uh uh break open the egg, mix it, add some salt, masala, whatever it is you want. And here's the interesting thing. To make it even more softer, what I recommend is like one small bit of mayonnaise, one of those good Japanese mayonnaise type things, right? And just mix it, right? Um, and then in 15 seconds you get an amazing omelette.
(1:21:45) What does the mayonnaise do? Huh? It makes the whole thing moist. So, because the microwave will remove a lot of water, >> right? And so, the mayonnaise keeps the whole thing moistister and less rubbery. That's all it and you don't need much, >> right? And you make and this is like you can literally teach a kid to make this uh and eat like an omelette whenever they feel hungry rather than go for some uh like ultrarocessed chips and snacks and all that. Wow. Right. Yeah.
(1:22:10) Yeah. So in fact I think for one of the interesting things I've done is now my son is at the age where he's always hungry right he's 13 so he's always trying to find food and good thing is school is also again they've done a good job and at home also he's hearing see watching my videos he's kind of getting a sense that some things are bad to eat and so on right so he's conscious of that uh but to make it easier for him uh we've rearranged the fridge so that when he opens the fridge he will only find cheese he will not find any so I I said
(1:22:37) if I want him to eat something I would rather that he eat these cheese cubes and things like that because again he's getting protein he's getting at that age that's the one of the best things you can eat right rather than some salty fried carbohydrate snack so he's eating that cheese right now increasingly slowly I'm going to tell him that you know you could just simply just hey break open the egg into this and then do that you get the added satisfaction of cooking something and it didn't take you much time >> right and again that thing you finish
(1:23:04) eating it won't stick to anything just put it in the dishwasher and you're done you don't even have to wash it >> because it doesn't stick it doesn't stick. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. >> There's no oil involved. >> You can put a tiny bit just to prevent it from sticking. Yes. So that's why that very conveniently just take the the butter this thing.
(1:23:21) There is that brush type thing. You just apply with that brush. You apply a little bit, right? So that you don't >> see sometimes now you can get creative, right? So people keep the oil bottle and then they will just directly open the lid and pour. You'll overpour. >> Okay. >> Smart people will put tiny holes in this so that you know they have more control.
(1:23:39) uh over how much oil is falling and all that right so like that you have to use these things like those brushes >> and spray >> yeah sprays yeah I I find that you know Indians don't use sprays enough thing in the US very common yes that spray is a >> yeah yeah yeah absolutely for many see for making an omelette you don't need like a tablespoon or teaspoon of oil at all >> thank you exactly if you have a nonstick you don't need any oil the omelette will just come absolutely break the egg and just eat it that's the best way to do it
(1:24:06) yes and the protein will make you less hungry decrease increase calories rather than the teflon >> protein and fat, right? They both increase satiety, right? Satiety. Yeah, exactly. You won't feel like eating any chips, whips and all of that. And it is delicious. See most for you know I people get very angry with me.
(1:24:22) I keep trying to convince vegetarians that eggs are vegetarian. >> See in see I can right see because right see um the term vegan or a carnivore they're very clear terms unambiguous. I don't eat anything of animal origin. Simple very no controversy there right or I eat everything or within religions religious restrictions I eat most things right vegetarian is a weird term okay because a very uniquely Indian thing because it includes milk but does not include eggs right >> includes milk >> but not eggs >> yes yes >> right and people will try and find
(1:24:56) reasons they'll say that no no no milk involves no death of the cow right that's the logic right but I'm like no eggs involve the death of nothing either right because you're confusing a fertilized egg from an unfertilized egg. See, in the nature, in the wild, the hen is freely roaming around. There's a chance that it could have met a male rooster and it would have got fertilized.
(1:25:22) So, the egg it lays may have the embryo. By the way, on the day it lays and the within the next two days you're eating, that embryo is not even visible to your naked eye, by the way. >> So, if you're worried about, oh, there is a bird inside. No, there is nothing. You can't even see it. Okay. Um, in modern day poultry establishments, there are rule zero of doing egg production, no male roosters.
(1:25:45) Only females are there. So, they only lay unfertilized eggs. They'll just lay it daily. Whether you eat it or not, they're going to lay, right? Eating that egg kills nothing. There is no chick inside. There is no embryo inside. It is just the absolute uh unfertilized egg that the the bird is dropping. Right.
(1:26:03) >> If a person listening to this podcast, what is an unfertilized egg? >> So, right. So, this people have to I you know I suppose people didn't pay attention in their class 8 biology, right? So, any form of uh if you leave aside bacteria and all of that, the way any animal reproduces is that the female will produce an egg and the male will produce a sperm of some kind and there is some sort of mixing of genes.
(1:26:25) Um and the reason this evolved is that this mixing produces genetic diversity. >> Otherwise a bacteria is just simply cloning itself. Um if it comes into an environment where suddenly it changes they don't have the ability to survive that right whereas uh so they do that by cranking mutation like so that's how a bacteria mutates regularly.
(1:26:43) >> They don't do sexual reproduction. In this case sexual reproduction essentially allows this to happen. Right? So when for a chicken to hatch from an egg, the male rooster has to meet the female rooster. After that, the egg that is laid will have the >> will have the embryo that will grow into will eat the nutrition in the egg and hatch at some point of time.
(1:27:07) Right? So that's what birds do. Only difference in mammals is that no egg is getting laid. The female is holding on to the thing inside the womb and then the baby is coming out. That's the only difference. Right? So here again you go to an egg farm there are no male birds there are only female birds so only the egg will wait not getting fertilized comes out which immediately some some a lot of people will say oh then you're eating the menstrual waste of the egg again mammals menstruate birds don't menstruate it's a completely different
(1:27:37) process >> they literally make the entire enclosure that is going to hold a potential baby chick which never arrived So that entirely highly nutritious thing is getting thrown out. The amount of effort the bird has to put all the calcium it has to eat to make the shell all of that pack all of that magical thing right.
(1:27:59) So that's why so because the egg has everything to make an entire this thing it is the one of the most nutritionally complete uh things right and it is it is such a flexible protein. See if you even in cooking know um you can scramble an egg you can make an omelette right you can do sunny side up and if you whisk it it gets fluffy you can whisk it even more you can make like those deserts and so you can get that ice cream textures so there is no ingredient that is more versatile than the egg and again I'm telling vegetarians it involves the death of no
(1:28:29) animal >> if that is your definition of vegetarianism if your definition of vegetarianism my religion told me not to eat eggs I will not eat eggs then say that that's absol absolutely fine sentiment. Your family said don't eat eggs. You don't eat eggs. You don't like eggs. You never grow up eating eggs. Not at all.
(1:28:48) But if you are a young person who's okay with challenging traditional orthodoxy >> and you honestly care about protein intake and still >> you are a little bit uncomfortable about you know killing and so on and all that then I seriously telling you eggs are vegetarian. >> So lacto vegetarian is lactose milk or is egg vegetarian. Is this >> exactly right? >> Yes.
(1:29:09) >> But what you're saying is >> physiologically speaking over vegetarian is vegetarian. >> Absolutely. Right. See again these are all the problem with all of this food stuff, right? You know people completely uh they all want to believe that their belief is is somehow correct and and they just find people to >> No, but what you're saying makes a lot of sense for vegetarian people where protein is like six to seven grams of protein per year.
(1:29:33) >> Absolutely. And and trust me, it it is it is really hard for a vegetarian to start eating a fish or chicken. >> Very hard. Very very hard. Right? >> But eggs are remarkably easy to eat. >> Right? >> See, people then say, "No, no, there is a smell." I said, "That's again simple science.
(1:29:50) That smell comes because you're over cooking it. When you over boil an egg, a hardboiled egg has a smell because by that time you have boiled it so much that the that the sulfur in the this is mixing with the iron in the this thing and and also eventually it's producing some amount of hydrogen sulfide. The ferrosulfide is the green >> overboiled egg when you open no in the center be a little bit of that that dull green. Correct.
(1:30:12) >> That is ferrraulfide. Some of that is also become hydrogen sulfide which is that rotten egg smell >> which people everybody in school experiment hydrogen sulfide rotten egg smell. Yeah. So want to know where else that smell is in chart masala. >> Volcanic rock salt also has sodium sulfide and hydrogen sulfide.
(1:30:30) So that's why actually chart masala smells like egg. >> So if if you if you want to tell vegetarians I don't like the smell of egg just say smell egg boiled egg smell chart masala. You will realize it's the same thing and then you'll get comfortable with it. Wow. Wow. One last thing and I'm I'm going to close this conversation. Wonderful thing.
(1:30:49) But the one last thing I really want to break the myth is the aluminium. >> Okay. >> What is the deal with aluminium? Is that the best thing or everybody should move towards it? >> See um first things first, aluminium is the most abundant metal on the planet. >> It's everywhere. It's huge percentage of our earth's crust is aluminium. Okay.
(1:31:10) There is no escaping aluminium. It's in ground water. Therefore, it's in your vegetables. >> Um your our body does not need aluminium. >> So it it basically your kidneys you remove it. Okay. Your your your your system removes it every day, right? Um as with any metal, see you know like for example most people in India have uh low ion anemia, right? Um but you know that you need enough iron as hemion to prevent anemia but too much iron is also bad.
(1:31:44) Okay. So because iron can cause oxidative stress and many other things at risk of cancer and all that. So high so every metal that's always the case right you every metal you eat too much you'll have a problem right you know cobalt and all is like so is toxic right but cobalt is absolutely essential inside vitamin B12 but it's a very tiny amount right so like that I think see aluminium on the other hand is not even essential copper also can be toxic at the things so copper and aluminium and I want to use both of these together
(1:32:13) simply because Indians believe copper is somehow magical >> but copper vessel >> yeah copper vessel vessel brass vessel that vessel But aluminium is somehow again it's simply because tradition see aluminium is a modern day thing right we we invented the method to extract aluminium only in the 20th century right boxite that entire process to get aluminium out of boxite was a needed industries >> copper bronze age I mean indust from valley time we've been using copper right so familiarity but both copper and aluminium can be toxic at high levels
(1:32:44) and so on now let's come to the second point most of Your intake of aluminium right is coming from the water and vegetables and everything you eat including even your your by the way your medicines also have >> any tablet you coating you have that is also aluminium right >> you have to realize that the dosage that you're going to get from these is never remotely going to hit the level uh that is of concern >> that is clinically signal >> that is clinically significant with the rare exception of people who have
(1:33:17) chronic kidney disease and who have impaired kidney kidney function and they want to try and avoid as many things that could cause a problem. >> And by the way, if people have impaired kidney function, it's anyway pain. They have to avoid a ton of things. They have to avoid like protein foods. They have to avoid so many things.
(1:33:33) Potassium, >> sodium, >> sodium, so many things they have to avoid anyway of that aluminium again is a relatively trivial part. But yeah, you want to avoid those things because you're going to your kidney is not working, right? But that's a tiny percentage of the population, right? So therefore again this is the problem of scale, right? You know that most of the aluminium you're getting you're anyway getting from water you're getting from vegetables you're getting from that right and if your body is able to deal with that why do you think the small
(1:33:57) extra it's like saying that there is a falls and then you're taking one small cup of water and pouring it there and you're thinking that's a meaningful contribution to the Niagara Falls right so this is the way you have to think about it the same problem with MSG also right that >> source of glutamates biggest source of glutamates is just a regular food tomatoes richest source of glutamates in the Indian >> MSG is monosod sodium >> monos sodium glutamate right uh people think oh my god it's a it's very bad for
(1:34:24) so what's glut glutamic acid is an amino acid it is in all all food right any any like things like gluten many of the things that have glut somewhere will include glutamic acid right so the point is that it's your body has like 2 kgs of glutamic acid already as in your in your tissue and muscles right so this tiny one teaspoon one/4 teaspoon is not going to do anything.
(1:34:47) And again remember you're getting most of your glutamates from uh from all fermented food are rich in glutamates. All fermented food idli and anything curd and uh pickled vegetables and uh and and including tomatoes naturally very high in parmesan cheese very high in uh salt and therefore literally MSG only right that's why we keep saying you know when a fancy Italian restaurant the guy comes and grates parmesan you think it's very posh right but in a Chinese restaurant when the guy adds one sprinkles US MSG both are exactly the same things right
(1:35:21) but that is You know, that's why I call it Parmesan is white people MSG. So, it's more acceptable than the Chinese. >> Yeah. So, MSG is purely just Chinese racism in the US in the 1970s that resulted in demonizing it. There is no actual medical evidence that there's actually funny interesting anecdote I want to share with a doctor I spoke to from Nigeria.
(1:35:42) >> Mhm. He actually said he didn't never quite understood what the obsession with MSG was because in his country u one of the problems they see in old patients right is that they they eat less over time you know older patients find it difficult to eat their taste buds don't work >> appetite is low >> appetite is low and then they waste >> right so you want them to eat more and he says is that they found that in Nigeria that just encouraging people to add MSG to their food is increases the appetite >> because Because it makes you salivate,
(1:36:13) it makes the food delicious, you will eat more things. He says that a fantastic thing. Why would you think that this is a poison? >> Yeah. So that's the way it is. Yes. >> Wow. So aluminium is there any benefit to it? >> No, there is no benefit. Um it is just simply cheap and convenient. >> Cheap and convenient.
(1:36:28) >> Yeah. And so don't break your head. Again, as I said, >> what you eat is more important than the vessel it was cooked in. Pay attention to that. Same problem, right? Will outside villain is aluminium. Inside villain is what you're eating, what you're cooking and eating, right? You're cooking some very oily uh chicken curry and parota and things like that on the aluminium and then blaming the aluminium.
(1:36:53) >> No, don't worry. See as I said so in general with most um non-stainless steel non teflon type vessels um cooking very sour foods with a lot of tamarind with a lot of tomato with a lot of you know things like that those acids will leak more of the metal into your food right >> so if at all you want to be careful don't cook like a very sour fish curry in your aluminium vessel cook that in something else right >> so when you cook that in a cast iron vessel it will leech iron which is actually quite okay because anyway most
(1:37:24) people you'll get some tiny bit of iron from that leeching uh but not any meaningful amount. So you should still be getting iron from regular sources. People immediately think, "Oh my god, I can fix my aneia by just switching to cast iron vessels and it won't Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Super. >> So last segment is rapid fire.
(1:37:42) >> Yes. >> Okay. Reheating rice is dangerous myth or fact. >> See the reheating um no it is it is not. So the thing the the reason this actually comes up is that um there is a bacteria called basilus which does live in rice and at room temperature rice etc it can grow >> right >> um and uh which is why they generally say for for general safety that the moment the rice kind of cools down to room temperature that's when you want to put it in the fridge >> right because you put it hot then from that temperature to go down to that
(1:38:17) temperature you're giving the bacteria time to grow Right? Because you so it's better to cool it down to room temperature then refrigerate. >> In most situations this is not going to be an issue. >> That's why they say that try and not store rice in the fridge for more than like 2 three days or >> then you're increasing the risk that baselius it can grow and again even if you reheat the rice the its metabolites are not going to get removed.
(1:38:42) So some of the toxic metabolites it produces will still be in the rice even if you heat it. So that's it's a very minor minor risk in India. We've been you know eating storing rice and all of that in the fridge and no doctor anywhere has told me that we have a serious epidemic of basil serious problem and all that. So again just use data right don't break your head.
(1:39:04) Yes >> millets better than rice your take. >> See I think you know um unless you change your overall eating habits that switch is going to be meaningless. Right. Uh it's still a grain. Let's remember that it's not some but it's a as choices go. Millets are more fiber >> complex carbs >> more complex carbs than than rice.
(1:39:27) But they're still grains. >> Dal is still a significantly more superior thing to eat even compared to millets, right? And it's about the overall change. But again, if you're >> because dal is a pulse. >> Dal is a pulse. It's it's a entire profile. The starch is entirely resistant starch and it has more protein. >> That is better than grains.
(1:39:42) >> Definitely better than grains. Right. So in fact I think the you flip the whole thing right I mean you know you'll have rice and then dal like that big bowl of dal small amount of rice >> flip the whole thing >> heating destroys nutrition more than freezing absolutely actually freezing destroys absolutely nothing in fact preserves things for months >> right so therefore uh you know uh I've said it again and again frozen peas is often more nutritious than fresh peas >> fresh peas fresh peas um one food myth
(1:40:14) you wish it would die. >> I think the social mediadriven contentdriven idea that a single ingredient is a villain or a hero >> and you're not paying attention to big picture >> because the more content you see which is focused on one ingredient, you regularly are you forget the fact that actually only four things matter.
(1:40:37) protein plus fiber, total calories, reduce saturated fat, trans fats and you know just a few things is all that matters right and exercise right so all the rest is noise >> yes >> okay and uh one traditional practice science later proved right >> actually there's a lot of them see in general >> um everything from I think for example try and eat by sunset is broadly generally a great right uh um and then uh >> thank you fermentation for example, right, is is generally a great now benefits of all of those kinds of
(1:41:12) things, right? >> Um, and I can also kind of think see if you see if you sometimes, you know, I feel that a lot of modern day quackery that people make content in the name of some traditional thing Ayurveda that this and all that, right? Um, they miss some of the the meta messages. Meta messages is like eat in moderation, right? And uh uh the deeper idea that don't treat food purely as a pleasurable thing, right? Treat it as something that you just pay attention to fuel, eat simply >> um and then eat in moderate amounts and
(1:41:45) so on. Those messages are actually a lot more eat on time, right? And and those kinds of things. And those are all so those habit forming ideas that just make it simple for you to sustainably follow habits. It's just that when those traditional things encode bad habits, >> then you have a problem.
(1:42:04) And then you have to realize that you live in times when you should not be eating that many carbs. You can follow those habits. See, for example, so you've said it so many times, right? >> Um that eat the stuff on the other side of the banana leaf more because that's where all the healthy stuff in a South Indian all the unhealthy stuff is in front of you in large amounts.
(1:42:22) And I I've also said it that my biggest this thing is that uh that he will put that kosumi and some of that fantastic healthy stuff with moon dal and cucumber and all of that with a tiny spoon. >> Right. Okay. That purposely tiny spoon. >> Rice will come with a bulldozer plate. He will come here and unload like a garbage truck is unloading on your uh plate. Right.
(1:42:46) And I think you know you have to we have to so the point is that but that's it's very hard to go to a wedding and now see and if you tell the guy no I'm going to flip it you serve it here that guy get very annoyed right so I think a lot of the um >> sometimes I feel that uh we have to find ways in which people can do exactly what they're doing but just make smaller tweaks >> smaller tweaks that's the thing yes >> super and that's what you're doing on your social media and thank you so much for whatever you are doing keep doing what you're doing and keep educating us.
(1:43:17) >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you, Christian. Thank you. Thank you.
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