Battle for Padmanabha Swamy Temple | FT.Aswathi Thirunal Gowri Lakshmi Bayi

Battle for Padmanabha Swamy Temple | FT.Aswathi Thirunal Gowri Lakshmi Bayi

Author Name:Nisha Yogeeshwar

Youtube Channel Url:https://www.youtube.com/@Nishayogeeshwar

Youtube Video URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHLBqsM2w78



Transcript:
(00:07) A temple that captured the world's attention. A court battle that nearly lasted a decade. >> Quarter they will give us and quarter the government will take. We said we want nothing. He said this is not our war. This is the white man's war. privileges abolished but the titles continued >> and a royal family that was entrusted with one of India's most sacred institutions >> we belong to the temple it is our family dynastic personal family deity >> born inside the kodiar palace when trac was still a kingdom >> the change I saw was that from our own
(00:51) traco flag it became a orange flag with the government of India Padmasri Awardi, poet, scholar, author and a member of the Travenor royal family which has been serving the Ananda Padbanas Swami temple for generations. What is the story of Walt be >> to the best of our knowledge has not been opened. >> This is my conversation with Ashwadi Gabri Lakshmi by >> suddenly somebody found a drop of blood on the floor and it is a stream.
(01:22) It's a long line of blood up to the door of the beer. Amma, welcome to Unisha. Namaskar. Mama. >> Namaskar. >> I'm so thrilled to be sitting in front of you. It's such an honor. I've known you to be a such a strong woman through all the stories I've heard and I've seen. Uh but I would like to know from you personally about so many smaller things that were not so small in your life had greater meaning and impact on your family and the society as a whole. I would like to start with asking
(02:06) you that you know when I look at you you look so simpler. Our idea of a royal family member is someone who's adorned in jewelry, somebody who you know who's decked in heavy clothing and then look at you are like so much of simplicity, so much of humility. How does that come to be your mom? >> I think basically the Kerala lifestyle is simple.
(02:32) Not now I should use the past tense was was simple. Our basic fundamental character simple. Whether you are the king or a commoner on the road, everybody borrow a >> doi. >> Maybe the king would perhaps not always have a gold lace. But many times, no. It is just a black pulyara. >> Whoever it may be, they all sat on the floor on a mat. They ate off a leaf.
(02:57) >> Yeah. >> They had the leaf for a spoon. They had another leaf for a bowl to drink water. >> Right. Uh then when if you're hot whoever you may be you had a vishari >> right >> made of palm leaves some of them had ramacham >> vishari then you sleeping on a mat >> what is a ramacham >> ramacham is what do you call it in English it's it's got it's a sort of a a rough thing >> okay >> uh and it's got a very fine smell when the breeze passes through and all very very beautiful fragrance it's a natural product >> okay
(03:30) >> it's a natural product >> okay >> and then everybody You don't have the fancy towels that you have. You we had what is called a tora, >> right? >> Even today. >> Yeah. >> The tora, whether it's a the king or the man on the street, they all had a tora to wipe their body after their bath. >> Okay.
(03:47) They all had instead of the different types of toothpaste which guarantee impossible uh effects. Okay. >> Results. They all had um you know the basic structure of the mali. >> Yeah. irrespective of his position >> right >> in many ways it was a common it was on a common platform. >> Oh is it >> then king might live in a palace a poor man might live in a hut.
(04:11) >> Okay >> that that those differences of course are there but the basic lifestyle it was very very uh I mean for almost everybody it was more or less common. Uh and with regard to jewelry I always feel that we never had much exposure to jewelry even as children. >> Okay. And uh the nicest thing about jewelry, you wear a heavy necklace.
(04:34) The nicest thing is when you take it off, water relief. >> True. >> Water relief. True, true, true. >> So that way we were never addicted to jewelry and we have never seen the type of jewelry that is seen in in many of the royal houses. >> I'm not blaming anybody. It is each person's heritage or each person's lifestyle which is the thing that shapes the lifestyle.
(05:03) >> So you never saw your mother wearing jewelry. >> Yes. At times mother grandmother. >> Yes. >> Grandmother was Maharani. Yeah. >> She was the Maharani. Yeah. My uncle was the Maharaja. >> Yeah. Who asked Maharaja to rule. >> Yes. >> Traveno or Thirvid was Maharaja Chitra. >> His only sister was my mother.
(05:24) And I have lived all my life till he moved on to the feet of shriat manapas swami. I've lived all my life under his umbrella only under the umbrella of chitr. Not only I all of us the entire family my sister my brother the entire family we lived under his benign grace. >> How was that childhood? What was beautiful about that childhood? >> It was a very exceptional childhood in the eyes of others.
(05:49) For us it came naturally because nothing else we knew. We were born into the system. We were brought up into this. So it's nothing unusual for us. But for the outside it was definitely something a little unusual. For us within the granite four granite walls we saw the world. We saw life. We saw so many things um and people so many VIPs coming uh and uh so many things we saw which normally normal childhood would stand and denied.
(06:20) I have gone I have a vague memory of myself going in a state procession in a palenquin in a green palenquin. That palenquin is now in the our museum. We have a museum in the fort called Kudra Malia or Putin Malia just next to the Patnosami temple. >> Okay. >> That palenquin is there. >> Wow. >> Uh that green palenquin.
(06:38) >> And what age were you at that time? >> I must have been about four or three or four. Vague memory of the And uh so and we never went to school. You're homeschooled. >> We had homeschooled. Tutors came. My sister and my brother and I, we all studied at home. >> And uh >> what did they teach you? Music, culture, all subjects.
(07:00) >> Not music. They did not teach music. They had a regular school curriculum. >> Okay. Whatever that was being taught in the schools were taught to us by the uh and the they one of the schools holy angels convent their examination papers my our tutor would bring and we would answer those papers. >> You got examinations? >> Yes. Yes. To go into every class.
(07:22) >> Yeah. >> We the final exam the papers came from the whole angels. >> And what were the subjects? >> Everything which the school taught whether it was English, whether it was malam, whether it was science or mathematics. uh geography, civics, history. >> Okay. >> The regular curriculum. >> And did you ever have a chance to go into a real school? And I know you went on to go and study in a government college later, but before during school, did you ever have a chance to go have a look at the school? No, never.
(07:48) >> And when you were in the palm, when you actually had a look outside, what did do you remember anything? What you saw outside, how the procession was, what it was about? It was very it was very exciting for us to watch the processions because they were so colorful and the pageantry uh and color and music and fanfare that was of course very as children.
(08:10) >> Yeah. >> It was something which we looked forward to and to the festivals of the temple and to the Navaratri which we looked forward to even more. >> Yeah. >> Uh the nine days of Navaratri that were wonderful for us. Those were things we really looked forward to. Did you ever question that why I'm not walking on the road like others? Did you have it in your mind or it was like very natural for you? >> It was very natural.
(08:32) We never thought about it. >> Yeah. >> And we never went to shops. The shops would come here. >> The people would send their wares here. >> But we had very little needs. >> Okay. And all three of us we never wanted had no urge uh to accumulate clothes or even our toys were compared to what the children have today very few in number and we took care of our toys.
(08:59) Every evening after we play we are supposed to replace them carefully whether it's a costume dolls or whether it's a paper cut dolls or whatever it may be everything has to be put back in place. And then we were exposed to a lot of reading. Yeah, that was your interest more than >> Yes. inculcated in us. >> Uh the reading habit that was very much there and we have read a lot of books.
(09:21) Yeah, >> we had a very fine library here and uh but many of the books were far be above us or beyond us because they were great masters original classics which in our age and stage in life it would have but then by the time we reached fourth form >> in those days 10th form was the school living that is SSLC.
(09:43) >> Yeah. Uh so by the time we reach the fourth form our tutors insisted they would give a list of books which we had to read and if there was something we did not understand we can write it down look at the dictionary if if the dictionary does not give the suitable answer then you can ask the teacher next day but um many of them were originals they were not a bridged >> right >> for instance tale of two cities by Dickens was being taught in an abrided form as a non-detailed in the college >> in the fourth form I have read the
(10:14) unabed two volumes the full this big unabbrided and then zenonian by lord lit the what is the standard Walter Scott he would write one sentence in one page one sentence I can also do that maybe I was influenced by him >> yes that's how probably >> one sentence I can sometimes one page I can fill with one sentence without making a grammatical mistake >> is that all the discipline that you learned from your childhood that shaped your ideologies you know your thought process Yeah, I think we were influenced by our elders. We never had a generation
(10:47) gap as they have today perhaps. >> Oh, is it how is that? >> No generation gap. Grandmother was the senior most whether it was grandmother or my younger brother. That is the there was no generation gap. >> What does that mean am no generation gap in the thought process? >> We could correlate with them.
(11:01) We could talk to them. We could go and sit with them. We could otherwise if you have a gener you don't there's nothing you can for you to say. >> Yeah. >> You just looking at the time when you can go. >> Yeah. Uh this we all got on and we went for picnics together. Grandmother used to take us for picnics um to the beach or to we had some houses in outside.
(11:20) >> Okay. >> And she was an excellent cook. >> Yeah. >> Even if she touched water, it would be tasty. >> Oh wow. Nice. >> She was an excellent cook and um so she loved cooking. We had our own cooks. Normally there was no need for anybody to cook even today. But as a treat she would cook. I mean each person was exceptional in his or her own way.
(11:41) >> What was your favorite dish from her? Do you do you have any memory of what you loved most? >> My grandmother's curds. >> Kurds. >> She used to make Kurds. >> Yeah. >> It was something superb. >> Yeah. Just the Kurds. >> Kurds. And then there was a one which you which is not even among the Malalis. I don't know. It's called orduli.
(12:00) >> Danduli. There's a special curry which we make here. I don't know whether it is very very what is it common elsewhere. >> Okay. >> She she used to make that I used to love it. >> Okay. >> And her potato made quarity. >> I'm sure you still remember the taste of it and you think of it. >> Oh >> nice. >> But grandmother was she was a very strong person >> right? >> She was a very strong person.
(12:25) >> So when Travenore actually came into the Republic of India were you aware of the changes that happened during that time or was it just it just happened all in the background? I mean I was too young to uh know about it. All I knew was the change I saw was that from our own Travenco flag which is a red flag with a gold shanka.
(12:44) >> Okay. >> Uh shanka mudra is our emblem. >> Okay. >> It became a orange flag with a the government of India emblem. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's the only difference >> that I noticed why this change has come. Mhm. >> Uh and then the flag on top of the every morning when at sunrise with the bugle the flag would go up.
(13:06) >> Okay. >> And in the evening retreat >> Yeah. >> that they would blow the bugle and the flag would come down. >> Yeah. >> That is a traco flag. That was a difference again. That was a difference. >> And when Maharaja is not here, >> uh the flag will not fly. >> Oh, is it? >> Even now in the Raj if the governor is not there the flag that's how it was.
(13:26) I don't know how it is now. That is how it was. >> The flag would not. So things like that otherwise it really made no impact on us because we were too small. >> But did life change after that? Do you feel like anything? >> No. Because he became the Raj Prammuk. >> Yeah. >> From from Maharaja.
(13:44) He became the Raj Puk of Thirukuchi Trainor and Kochin. >> Okay. >> Together combined states United States of Train Coin. He became the supreme head. >> Mhm. But then for us it was I mean uh >> didn't ever get a chance to >> it did not make an impact on us. >> Yeah. >> But later in 1956 or sometime when the Raj broom ship was abolished the government had said Rajuk for life.
(14:14) >> But after six or seven years they abolished the Rajok and India became a republic. >> Yes. and and all the though they had assured that went and then all the rulers were issued privileges privers privileges for life that also in the 1970s they abolished. >> Yes. >> Today an MLA who if he has served at least two and a half years he gets a pension for life today.
(14:43) >> Yeah. >> The Maharajas and they have given a part their entire kingdom. >> Yes. Yes. >> Their legacy, >> yes, >> their tradition, everything >> and they just and though they were assured it, >> they abolished it. That very much I remember and how >> so many things changed. >> Yeah.
(15:04) What do you feel like you actually taken uh and carried forward from your grandmother, your uncle like a few qualities that you feel like you know I am just like them in this some discipline, some habits? >> No, we have we were all very disciplined. We were >> Yeah. Nowadays we are not that disciplined. Uh but in those days we were disciplined.
(15:22) But what I have learned specifically from each of them something we have learned. >> Yeah. >> For for instance my mother >> she told me you you must promise promise me one thing. When I was a child >> okay >> we are too young to argue in those days you don't argue with your parents. >> Yeah. Then she said you must promise never to promise >> because one day you may have to break break that promise.
(15:47) So you must not promise. >> I have never promised. There are many people who say I will tell you something if you promise. I say I'm sorry. >> I I will not say I I will tell you I will not say but I will not promise. I have kept up that to this minute. >> Uh she had and then she had always said never betray confidence. Never betray a confidence.
(16:10) If somebody tells you something in confidence, you should never betray it. Like this everybody >> father used to say have faith in God and confidence in yourself. Faith in God is a necessity but you have to have confidence in yourself. Father was a very well-known person in Kerala and even in India and even on a international he was the father of sports in Kerala in in almost everything.
(16:34) The first sports council in Kerala is in Trandra. It is established by him and all the whether it is the tennis club or the rifle club or the aquatic association, mountaineering association, uh flying club, yaching club, everything it was him. >> Okay. >> He was a great sportsman and tourism also. >> Okay. >> If you came through the domestic airport, >> Yeah.
(16:58) Did you see two big pictures on the wall as you come into the area where you get the luggage and all that just before that as you walk in on the wall >> you can't miss it but then if you don't look at it you won't see it but it's very big >> when I go back I'll be seeing >> but you won't be seeing because >> so I won't be coming in from the same >> no because it's exit is a >> right >> uh is another way this is the entry on the VIP room on either side of the VI room the huge two photo >> okay >> one is of my uncle Chitra who established the airport and the
(17:29) other is my father. >> Okay. >> Colonel Ji Raja. >> Okay. >> So the father used to I think everybody used to have something to say. >> So their lessons have been deep rooted >> very much. Very much. Yeah. >> But the person who has influenced me maximum in my life. If I don't have to think even one second is my uncle for who is to me ifas swami can come in form if sweetness gentleness humility and greatness can have a physical form that was my panaman that was my panaman and everything we have even today he has passed on in 1991
(18:13) I never say he expired or his demise. I don't use those words in in connection with him. He cannot cease to be. So he moved on to the feet of Patma Swami in 1991. But even today as I sit and talk to you, the roof over my head, the food I have eaten, the clothes I wear, everything other than panavas swami is because of my punamin.
(18:43) Pama and he anyway >> you feel so connected to him even today you feel him >> very much >> your presence everywhere >> very much >> I come into the palace and I see so many beautiful paintings here of Rabihma and what do you really like about his paintings what do you appreciate because you're such a creative person you have an eye for art >> uh uh yes I have not reached that stage and art criticism for me to evaluate reva >> yeah but what do you like about when you see it.
(19:14) >> Rema is I mean his play of world of colors um especially the lights and shades and this picture for instance so much of light and shade play is there. >> Yeah. >> And those things and then he brought uh he gave faces to gods and goddesses all over India. The paper this of Daxmi or Ganabati or Saraswati which are there >> came from him.
(19:40) >> Yeah. And he did a a national integration also. He gave most of his heroins the sari >> unless they were some specific puranic figure or a specific Mallayali uh figure. Um otherwise invariably most of his heroins were trapped in sari and sari became the national costume of India and his choice of sar went into the national integration of costumes.
(20:08) He was the person who did it right >> though nobody realizes that. >> No, what are you wearing? I know this is not a sari something. >> It's not a sari at all. Nowadays, unfortunately, even the malales have started using a wrong term setari. There is no term like that. There is no setari. It is set to munda. >> This is one munda.
(20:30) One doti and this is a second doti. Are there two pieces very easy to manage? traditional >> but of course it gets crumbled very soon >> right >> and then I I normally walk about so I've been just pulled out of the waste paper basket cuz I'm not very good with some of them and even you have put the sari very nicely I don't it somehow doesn't come to me >> but you always worn this one the traditional uh >> not always okay I wear the sari quite a few times >> sari say but normally I wear this at home also and even for normally I wear
(21:03) this but and then I also have the maxis and things like that which the modern people wear but not when somebody's coming to see you and all but if there is nobody >> coming or something then you don't have to even in the hot season just one maxi means much less hot >> that way and then when we go to only when we go to shriatana swami temple which is we belong to the temple it is our family dynastic personal family deity when we go there we are we have to wear a particular type of costume.
(21:38) Not like this. >> Okay. >> Like that. But with the blouse. >> Oh, okay. >> Mhm. >> Like this. >> And um one piece. It's just one piece. Goes right down. >> Okay. >> And of course there's a blouse. >> Okay. >> But it is not two piece. And it is without that we can't go. >> But why is that so specific to the temple? >> Olden days that was a costume.
(21:59) >> Okay. >> This all came later. >> Okay. olden times everybody even the n households every day used to wear this >> right >> and that was the costume >> so we that is continued >> coming back to olden days and you know um there's a system we call the you know the patriarchal system and the matriarchal system but when it comes to tracing uh royal family that followed the matrineal system how is that a different uh unique distinctive system >> matrinal system you're very correct because many People say matriarchal in
(22:32) it is called nephews and nieces. That is the lineage. Uh now in matrineal system matriarchal system the woman is the head of the family. >> Right? >> In the matineal system the man is the head of the family but his family is through his mother is through the woman. The family continues through the woman but the man is the head of the family and in the event of there being no man the woman can >> and that's why we have at least three queens >> right >> in the modern history itself >> we have three queens >> one of them ruled in her own right and
(23:16) then became the regent otherwise there were three mainly three regions but one of the regions that is Swadi Maharaja you must have heard who was a big musician music composer musicologist ologist his mother uh before he was born she ruled in her own right as queen. >> Okay. >> But the moment he was born she became the regent. So there were three regions.
(23:40) >> Mhm. So when it comes to matrinal the power flows through the woman but >> not power the family continues. >> Okay. Through the woman. >> The family continues through the woman. It is a man who is the head of the family. At the same time the women are given much respect. Their voices are heard.
(24:01) um in all important this and the inheritance also goes to the woman and through her to her children. Hm. >> So when this happens Amma that when you know the the power the family continues through the women I think it has really created um very strong women in your family uh and strong queens very empowered women. >> I don't know whe it's just because matalian because matalian system was followed not just by our family it was a common thing for many of the Kerala Hindus.
(24:33) Oh is it? Huh? It is not just the Kerala our royal family I don't know. Then the all the royal families the kochin royal family almost all thehatria families bakhatrias okay all thehatria families or the royal families of Kerala for followed the matineal then the nyers they are high class Hindus you are not supposed to talk castan class but here it has to be done they followed the matineal like that so many basically in Kerala it was matrienal it was not restricted to the trac oil family >> but I think it it really uh put women in places of admin administration and it
(25:06) was very normal for them to be part of you know administration affairs execution it was not something off the charts >> no they were they had the advantage as somebody said if you're born a woman born be born in Kerala because the Kerala women were given respect they had their own rights their own privileges uh and so many things so many pluses came their way including inheritance >> right >> so now all those things have changed and the joint family system being there that also it is a woman.
(25:39) >> Yeah. >> Through whom the family continues. >> Yeah. >> That way they were they were not thought of as shles or as objects of pleasure or as people of convenience who do your cooking and your washing and who produce children uh much more than that and many of them were educated. >> Mhm.
(26:00) Is that what is responsible for the the system the way the society is in Kerala like how women are so participated? >> Yes. Yes, that's how >> the matinal system has helped so much >> and then one Kerala was the first literate state in India. >> Yeah, >> that is because again of material system >> because everybody learned everybody studied there there was so many I don't think it was anybody uneducated.
(26:21) >> So who brought that about >> from time immemorial? Yeah, >> it was there. But actually it says that material system there are two two ways that of the late 1300s >> they say he came into power >> he was one of our ancestors 1300s. >> Yeah. >> Uh he came through both sides father side and mother side he became the king.
(26:46) >> Oh okay. >> From both and he opted for >> the mother side. >> Okay. Then there is a saying that in the 8th century the he rajim they brought in the material. So we're not very sure exactly which but anyway at least from 1300s definitely. >> But this thing about education that you said education the primary education was made compulsory by a queen here.
(27:05) >> Yes. >> In 1817. Yes. >> Was that some was that one of your ancestors? >> Yeah very much. Okay. >> That is mutadi rani gabri parvati. Right. >> She was this uh regent to Maharaja Swati. Okay. Maharaja Swatnal when he was born and he became the king >> then at one and a half years when he was one and a half years and his mother was ruling as the regent and beautiful brilliant uh but she passed away at the age of 24 >> okay >> and when he was one and a half then from one and a half to age of 16 uh her younger sister Uttrial Rani Gavi
(27:44) Paratuay ruled till he became 16 and then he be he took over the reigns of administration. >> Okay. >> It was during her reign in 1817 that she promulgated. >> Please note the word. It is not issued. It is not a proclamation. It is a promulgation. M >> that is means it is so important that she promulgated the an edict which is called the reedict on education by which compulsory education and all grassroot levels at state sponsored compulsory education which much much much later you talk about primary education this was the route and though
(28:25) unfortunately Kerala does not remember the rani does not remember the promulgation nothing they remember about her they know about Swati because he's so famous but apart from that nobody knows however in the in the UNO this uh promulgation of the Rani is displayed there and in 2017 in Delhi in the India international center with the and Mr.
(28:56) Ansari was the vice president. He was a chief guest. They had a one and a half day seminar on education and a big focus in the inaugural session itself was Rani's proclamation. I was present there very much present there. I was sitting next to him and uh at the same time not a leaf moved in Kerala >> on this not a leaf >> but they reaping the benefits of it because what happened in the 1800s we can see in the society >> the people the people today's generations know nothing of our history all they are taught of a selective history I don't want to say what um but
(29:37) very selective history they taught but none of the old so many things have happened. So many things have happened. Uh I'll just give you one example. I I don't know whether I'm digressing. Uh but I'm giving an example. >> The first fingerprint bureau fingerprint bureau was established in Kolkata. Next year in 1900 that is in 1899 1900 in the time of Maharaja Mulaman who was before my uncle fingerprint bureau was established in Tracovangor Traven.
(30:18) So many I mean explanations to Thiruvangor. Anyway, it was the year after that in 1991 that Scotland had established a fingerprint bureau. So how much we were adv advanced in time? Who knows? You talk of right to information act which is very common. You have to wait for 31 days and then whether you'll get it or not it's your luck.
(30:44) I think it was in time of Vishagnal. I didn't know. It was already introduced in Canada. I mean Traco >> in Traco. M >> already so before it was all all these things came like that there are so many so many so many things you go to the city of Tiruananduram go around you will see almost every building has the royal signature >> one doesn't realize how much of social reform it brought about and the amount of long-sightedness and they had the vision they had probably none of us carry in today's there was no vote bank to cater to you don't have to catch a
(31:19) particular community or a particular ular religion to catch a vote. There was no vote bank all vote bank. >> So what was the focus summer? What did they think? They just thought about the welfare of the country. >> So the welfare of the I will give you one more example since you have asked it.
(31:38) Uh the entire Indian states I think it's 500 odd or 800 odd anyway uh they were all divided and classified. The A states, B states, C states, three states of the A states had 21 guns salute. B states had 19 gun salute. C states had 17 gun salutes. The then the smaller states had no classification of gun salute. A states were only about eight or nine. I can't remember all of them.
(32:07) uh but I there's Jammu Kashmir, Hyderabad, Mysore, Travenor, Boda then I think three more I can't remember they were all A states with 21 gun salutes Traven included >> right >> then comes the B then comes the C B states 19 C states 17 gun salute then when world war came >> the first world war cameran was ruling 1914 to 1918 first world war and all the rulers big and small even seminars and people they were competing with each other to send the maximum number of men for war and those states which sent considerable number were
(32:54) recognized and honored by the British imperial government they gave them decorations and honors now at that time at that period of time trainee was an a state 21 salute and the but however the number the number of people who went was somewhat dismalled even some of the seminars had sent more the reason was that Maharaja and we had our own army we had our own army also he said this is not our war this is the white man's war why should I send my people to be as fer to their guns whoever in in fact what He was very good in
(33:36) English also. But in also he said however those who wanted to go they made all arrangements for them to go. So by and large the number which went from Travenor was much less than many other places. Now that could not go unnoticed >> and the British the imperial government was so angry with the whole thing that they demoted Travenco from A to B.
(34:09) >> Oh >> from 21 salute to 19 salute. They made Traco be it was from that time that Traco became B for insufficient war effort. >> That was the reason >> for somebody else's war. >> Yeah, that was the reason they gave for insufficient war effort. So he said fine >> it doesn't matter >> it doesn't matter >> if that is so that's so but anyway coming back to the welfare so all the states depending on their status and categorization they could take a certain percentage of the state revenue >> for their own personal needs
(34:45) >> the lowest there are there were states which took up to 50% of the state revenue that they could take it or not is another thing I know the state also but my mother but my uncle has said you must never mention it. >> Uh so of course it is history anybody can find out I don't have to mention uh but there were states which were taking 50 >> right >> the state on all panindia level the state which took the smallest percentage which which was 4%.
(35:17) 4% was rock bottom >> then comes 7%. And then it goes on up up up to 50%. 50% >> the 4% state was there was only one state in the whole of India which took 4% that was tra >> oh is it >> trago with that whether it's 21 or 19 gun salute we had much it's I mean it could take much much more >> of course >> but my uncle Maharaja Chitra said by the grace of Patnam Swami we have enough to live I do not want to dep deprive my state and my people >> of what maximum I want to give to for my own needs I cannot deprive them but I have to live also so he took 4%
(35:56) the rest of it went for the welfare activities of that state >> okay >> and the second state with 7% was coin >> okay >> but coin was much smaller than >> trao >> travo much smaller so I mean I was just giving a >> yeah about social welfare >> about social welfare and in one sentence another example >> a living example >> at least the people The Malali population here would know Sri Chitra Institute of Medical Sciences and Technology in Ulur.
(36:28) >> It is one of the internationally accepted uh cardiology, neurology, medical specialities, >> speciality hospital in the world. >> Sri Chetra Sri Chetra came from the money which was which was given to my grandmother and my uncle from the government. They had a huge amount they d they had from that they took that money they made four trusts.
(36:55) >> Okay. >> They made four trusts with the entire money they put into the fortress. >> Okay. >> And then from that from the interest of the trust chitra had its birth. >> Okay. >> My uncle always wanted a super speciality for brain and heart at affordable cost. The p the private hospitals the charges are killing.
(37:18) So, so for and that it was only thing which he did not want but which took place against his wishes was that he did not want his name. He Sri Chitra Rama this Sri Chitra Institute >> named of he did not want his name. He said I will not sanction this institute if it is going to be an advertisement board for my name.
(37:39) >> Okay. >> The sentence he told me direct. uh so then finally in a not so fair way uh it was possible that's a long story I don't want to go into all that and so again when you're talking of welfare at that time he was not in power >> he was just a ordinary man like anybody else uh he had no power he had no title he had no no title I think they all had but they did not keep the government of India had not abolished their titles it was a privilege es that they had abolished.
(38:13) He had no privileges, nothing like any other person, but he was never an ordinary man. How much he tried to be an ordinary man, he always remained special. That is another aspect of it. >> Okay. >> But but at that time also their their outlook was to help the people. They could easily have taken that money and done so many things even if they that is the only thing I feel would have been a good thing there's no point in thinking about it now we were all grown up by that time >> if they had kept a small amount not the
(38:50) whole they said if we leave this our our successors they have all enough to live so this money will come as that amount of money should go to should not go to private hands it go for public welfare. >> That's how they made the trust. >> Okay. >> But if they had kept a small amount as a sinking fund for this house, >> it would have been such a blessing because we are struggling to maintain it.
(39:16) >> What an irony >> that that part of it is there. >> But otherwise we also have no regret that they made it into a trust they have given us. But no has given us that is more than enough. If we can wipe one tear, bring a little bit of cheer to the uh to the heart of somebody we are blessed.
(39:38) So when it comes to the temple in 1750, the Maharaja then he basically gave up all his royalty and said the Lord Padmanabas Swami would be the king of Travanko. What happened then? >> You see even and they took on the it is believed that they took on the title of Sri Patanabadasa. Yes. >> But this title Shriat Manavadasa was operational in the family long before 1750.
(40:03) >> Oh, is it? >> Uh but it was an emotional and personal title. There there are records, scrolls, the temple has over 40 lakh records and the biggest uh hisographic literature in the world is with Shibat Swami temple or on Shibat Swami temple. Uh the second being Vatican. Okay. >> Uh anyway uh so many of the records refer to many of the rulers as manabadasa. So manabadasa like this.
(40:36) So the shad manabadasa title did not come in 1750. Okay. >> In fact in 1750 when the it is with that he surrenders the state to patanabha. >> Yes. At that time his heir and his ne who who was his nephew Ramawa Kartikar Rama later on famous as Dharma Raja later on Dharma Raja he was famous as Dhar Raja >> so he was Raja already leading men to battle and victory but there is a record of his first birthday when he was surrendered to Pmana ada I mean they surrendered to and the title atabadasa he gets a title then on the first
(41:24) birthday all of them >> okay >> they they surrendered on the first birthday they put on placed on the madam the mandabam >> and anything that falls on the mandabam becomes a property of the temple >> right >> so they put on the surrendered by the mother >> the mother places the child up to including my two sons my youngest son is the youngest in the family >> Adita so up to and including them it has happened.
(41:50) >> Okay. >> Uh they're all they're all shrianavadas. Now coming back to your point title did not come with 1750 but however it it underwent a slight change in complexion. It became official as well. >> Okay. >> Maharaja martana his adoration to Sri Patmanapa Swami was something beyond imagination. For him it was pataapha.
(42:17) I think perhaps the only comparison you can make to his adoration is that of my uncle Chitra whom also it was very much like that and he had to sacrifice much more >> than marta he but then marta time there was war and conflict and all that those things were there which was not there for when came >> uh anyway so his everything he wanted connected with connecting with patanabasami >> yeah So the kalculam palace in today's kanyakumari district which is he renamed it as patna >> and it is now even now known as patnavan
(42:57) patna kulangotaram became patnaram like this almost everything where and he shifted the capital from patnawaram to thirananduram so that he could be near his adored master. >> Oh is it >> he but before the complete shifting came he passed away. Okay, >> official complete shifting but he passed away here and anyway so his people people can call it adoration they could call obsession and whatever it may be it was an overriding emotion >> by which he wanted everything to be bhagavans >> right >> and that he would rule as his dasa
(43:38) >> now dasa in at least in malalam uh and perhaps even in Sanskrit and all that um not in English it has got two meanings either dasa can be a servant >> or dasa can be a slave Sanskrit also it is there we prefer the second slave because if you are a servant and you don't want to work for your master you can walk out you you are you can snap relationships and walk out if you are a slave.
(44:15) You have no independent existence other than from him. We are bound. We our identity is he. Our heartbeat, our throb of the pulse, the flow of the blood. Pmanabha. We do not want an existence without him or away from him. And so we are bound to his feet. Normally when you come to slavery the slaves are bound in chains and chains but in our case we are also bound by chains but they but for us it is voluntary not involuntary but his decision of course but our chains are slightly different they are silken
(44:59) strands of blissand silken strands of bliss. >> Wow >> that is more than enough for us. So we are all if you ask me for my biodata I can always say in two two two sentences I'm a child of good fortune soindi to have been born in the family of patanabadasa as his sadima >> true >> and have you shared this emotion all through your life since childhood >> yes >> and is it across >> childhood childhood we don't have much public speaking yes >> and we come to I mean come into more I impact with the temple and what it meant
(45:41) little when we grew up >> experience >> we have always heard of Patnos Swami two or three things we have always heard of in our childhood from the time one is Patna Swami temple then one is discussions on medical on the med medical world alopathy or Ayurveda or Yunani that then music >> these things we have heard all our lives these subjects >> and and our uncle only Maharaj only in this video room he used to tell us stories is every day after our lunch.
(46:10) >> Yeah. Amma so being a dasa to the Padmanabas Swami how has it shaped your responsibilities towards the society the people who come to you asking for something has it changed because one is to be a part of the royal family but being a dasa like you said when you're a slave what changes within >> no because we have always been we have always grown up in that particular system so there was no particular change and we have seen extended to help in so many ways whether is a national disaster, whether it is a public need,
(46:44) whether it's a private demand, whatever it may be. So much we have seen, people being helped, uh tears being wiped and my uncle used to he used to say what the right hand does not the left hand know. >> Yeah. So so many things which we have done which they have done what is history everybody knows but other than that so many things so much of help that they have actually done what we also do and in our own small uh limited manner what we do even today one is going today just today now after this >> so but we never talk about it we never
(47:24) make it public uh they know and we know the recipient of course knows >> and we know >> that is enough cuz she used to say don't let the left hand know what the right hand does. >> So that >> you followed that also. >> Yes. Because sometimes you find >> uh a bus stand >> Yeah. uh is being opened. It's a huge board funded by so and so so and so and of course the party >> the bus stand is this much the board is this much true and of course the person who did it is standing there so I mean that sort of publicity maybe they need
(48:03) it in politics they may need publicity because people have to know what the parties are doing but we are not public we are not political we don't need that publicity our and our greatest reward is if somebody is really and truly helped the happiness that comes to them. >> True. >> True.
(48:22) True. True. Along with being a devotey and your family has been das when you walk into the temple amma the Swami temple and you're also a scholar. What is something that you can't >> what is something that you can't put in words? >> You have answered my question. You have answered my question. What cannot be put in words? >> True. >> It can't be put in words.
(48:46) And certain things you cannot explain. You have to experience. For instance, when you stand on the mandum and look at the divine face of Bhagavan, I have seen it in different moods when you make it's a sculptured keshakar vigraham. Sometimes he's smiling a divine smile. Sometimes he's not so much smiling but small smile.
(49:17) Sometimes he is conte in a contemplative mood. Sometimes he just ignores you as if he does not know you at all. You >> see all the expressions. >> Sometimes he looks stern. I have seen all these expressions. All these expressions. So how do you explain? You can't explain. You can only experience. >> And are you always talking to him as well? Do you have conversations? >> Yes. Yes. Yes.
(49:38) >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yeah. But then again at least as I'm sure it is the same with almost everybody as far as possible please don't ask him for anything I want this I want that I want the other I want the children but at the same time having said that the children are having them model exams and I prayed very hard that they may do well >> true that is another thing but normally speaking uh for our own person I have not even after some time I have not I had stopped praying for the success of our case in the Supreme Court.
(50:13) >> That was the one of the greatest challenges in our life over 9 and a half years. Uh in the Supreme Court alone and for almost every hearing I was there in the court uh would meet the advocates the previous day discuss with them and be present in the court. >> Ammon this legal dispute. Yeah. It started in 2007.
(50:37) >> What actually happened? uh somebody I don't want to go into the details of it because again I would be perhaps inviting unnecessary controversy. >> Yeah. >> Uh but um somebody's anger, somebody's personal feelings of displeasure culminated in finally it snowballed into a huge bomb. What started as a small seed >> and the crux of it was that Maharaja has no right to be the trustee or whatever it is of the temple of the temple the guardian or trustee or whatever it is of the temple >> because the words in the covenant
(51:20) there's a special covenant >> oh is it >> governing the temple with the government of India >> okay >> which it says >> the Maharaja of Tramo There is no trago, there is no Maharaja, >> right? >> So he has no and now because there is no mariju state should take over. >> One of my arguments was that Traven did not represent Kerala.
(51:46) So how can the Kerala government take over? If it's a tracore government by itself, that's a different thing. But it's a Kerala government where there is Kochi and Kod and Madabar and Madaparam >> that is not that is not there it's not a traore government. Yeah >> it's a Kerala government. So it cannot succeed Maharaja >> and and then again there were so many uh different connotations we we have used >> right >> in and even even um in the Supreme Court case verdict in other case they have referred to him as Maharaj of Traco we quoted
(52:23) that then that also should become null and void >> that should become and then uh the privileges were abolished but The titles continued >> right >> so he continued as the Maharaja >> the gi as they said the throne >> so that the right to the gi or the titles were not so obviously he's a maraja >> right >> then trao that we had our own material and our own debates on the thing >> anyway but even there after a time I stopped uh please let us win the case >> after about half of this I never all I used to say JJ Padmana
(53:03) >> Kerala High Court first ruled against the royal family. >> First lower court. >> Yeah. The lower court. >> We lost. >> Yeah. >> Then we went to the high court. >> Yes. >> Uh we never thought even for a moment that we would lose because how can you can anybody sort of uh wonder on which side the sun would rise? >> Yeah.
(53:24) >> It will rise on the east. It will set in the west >> like that. Who can say Patna now Swami temple the Trago royal family who can even have a doubt >> the lower court losing because of the the judge said it appears that in his entire professional career he has not seen an advocate only the Paris advocate was enough to lose the case was so badly argued >> that's what he said then they went into high court that time also the rest of the family was not really involved it was the Maharaja That was by that time
(54:00) had moved on. It was his younger brother who was the maraj right >> who was raj and who became the he was handling the case and he was it was under his >> uh this this guy and we none of us were and we were not really particularly anxious about it because I mean it is a sure thing >> sure >> nothing to >> one day we don't even know that the verdict is coming that is our involvement >> one day my husband switches on the TV at 3:00 and the first thing we hear is that the Travenor royal family loses the in the high court with regard to Patnamas
(54:35) Swami temple. >> You saw it on TV. >> I saw it on TV. Then then you're sitting and looking next sentence. Within one month the Kerala government has been directed to take over the running of the temple. Taking into consideration the Trainco royal family's connect with the Patnabas Swami temple. All the privileges that they have as Patanapadas in the temple will be continued.
(54:59) Oh my god. >> This is the verdict. That is the time you realize that something like that has come. We immediately my son and I we got into the car and we went to Patam where my uncle was staying. >> Okay. >> And then so many things happened and then we went into the Supreme Court. >> Yeah.
(55:17) I think your uncle moved on and then you took over the case in >> No, no, no. I never took over the case. It was always the head of the family. >> Okay. My uncle was and I I we impleeded into I not officially we just pushed ourselves in. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Into the case >> and I used I started going to Delhi >> and I went to Delhi and met our advocate >> and I still remember what he asked me.
(55:39) He asked me one question. He said what would you say if you lost the case? This was one of the first sentences he asked me. I had only one reply to give. I didn't have to think about what reply I should uh formulate, >> right? >> Just one reply. Sir, the corpses don't talk. He said, what do you say if you lose? If we lose the case, we become living corpses.
(56:08) Then corpses, they're dead. They don't have they don't talk. >> Wow. >> So corpses don't talk. >> 10 years of uh a decade long of fight. It's not a small >> nine and a half. >> Yeah. Yes. So, and I know Delhi in in its summer, in its burning summer, in its freezing winter, in its sandstorms and in it lashing rains. I have seen Delhi in all her moods and all her temperaments.
(56:35) I have sat on the veranda on a wooden bench in the freezing cold, watching the deciders of destiny walk by in black robes walking by, deciding somebody's destiny, somebody seen it all. So many things I have seen but anyway the case was not conducted by me. It was conducted till my uncle passed on in 2013. My uncle passed passed away in December.
(57:01) Then my brother took it away and he continued the case. He became the next maraj younger brother. >> Among all these ups and downs and so many things against the family rulings how did the faith and conviction stay? What kept it together for you? I don't know but manabas swami our conviction that he will take care of his own it is his right to take care of us because we are his own bound to him not in iron chains but in silken strands of bliss >> but you just put in the work you just went there stood there waited there day
(57:33) after day >> of course every I mean it was not just me yes >> please don't think that uh it's but I I went the maximum I went that is true uh but everybody was involved in the case for everybody it was a life death uh affair. >> How was it for the family? >> It was very bad. >> It was very stressful. >> Very stressful.
(57:53) But after a time we all sort of gained some inner courage, some in inner strength by which but we did not know how we would react if the case had gone against us. Then what >> we do not know. We did not think about that alternative. >> We did not want to be prepared for defeat. We wanted to await victory. Uh but then even then it was very very and so many things happened the arrival of the amury that huge negative report that he gave. Yes.
(58:22) >> Uh 500 page. >> Yes. >> I have the report with me. I've underlined every place where he has says the wrong thing >> where he had saidam assatam. But then it went into the this and so many things we heard. So many things we have not taken a gram of gold or a grain of sand from the temple. Nobody in the family nobody has taken what all we heard.
(58:52) and um not just from them but from the common parlay and all. But I think by and large the people really did not believe the negative falsehoods that were being uh circulated and there was such a huge support system when the verdict was coming on Monday in August. Saturday we knew that the verdict was coming. Monday also I went to the temple but I did not pray for a good verdict till Monday morning I had no problem with my mind just very calm.
(59:29) Then somebody called me on Sunday and told me butami but somebody who was not quite in our favor uh called me up and said butami will decide who should look after his interests. I said true and I put down the phone. Uh I said true and I put down the phone. It is true. Anyway the decision is over. Said they would have finished everything.
(59:49) That was only for the verdict to come on Monday. I did not go to Delhi because it our advocacy said that when the final hearing comes normally the uh involved people don't go only the advocates go because they wanted to hear. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So we didn't go. We were sitting in front of the TV. >> Did it bring your family together? >> The whole experience did it bring it bring you all much closer together? >> No we are always a joint family. Yeah.
(1:00:13) >> So that way when our this and we were all sitting there I slept on Sunday I slept nicely. My brother didn't he could not he didn't but I slept perhaps I'm a little insensitive. uh but I don't know but on Monday I was also a little tense till then I was not what is going to come and we were all ourselves our staff our officers everybody was in front of the TV 10:30 the news came from then onwards the phone started
(1:00:58) ringing And well anyway the next day was my birthday. >> What better birthday gift could he give me? >> You call yourself insensitive but the kind of conflict and the pressures you must have gone through over those 9 and 1/2 years I think that's put you to rest because at the end like you always said that you left everything to him >> and he just rested.
(1:01:19) Did he just put you to >> because there's no and I know people who did not sleep the whole night not and my brother at least is closely connected >> people who have sat up the whole night with a lamp lit chanting bhagavadam or safasam people who gave up one night's food I mean there were so many people who suffering or who were exposed to the what is it the trauma >> so many people whom we don't even know all over America Yeah, there are this so many but anyway that is >> I think this case very clearly reveals you know what ancient traditions how
(1:01:56) they don't fit into legal framework would you say so the modern legal framework and when ancient traditions have to sort of be brought into context >> tradition has to be protected it has to be kept if there is no past there is no present if there is no present there is no future and uh just for the sake of change just for the change sake of modernity.
(1:02:22) You go and change things. Sometimes it is very specialized change. Certain areas alone they bring in change. Certain areas they leave un untouched >> or so many things are there but they're all highly sensitive uh areas. So we will not go into that. >> Okay. Amma tell me when the court ruled that the inventory of the temple had to be checked centuries of something that was preserved very silently and kept away suddenly came to the public light and when it came to the public light did could people appreciate you know the the
(1:02:55) sanctity of it because they didn't have any context of something so sacred >> there was a lot of appreciation >> that so much was kept there intact I will tell you one with so much wealth. People say, people say that Patnos Swami Temple is the richest temple in the world. I don't say people say they keep on saying, "Oh, that's the richest temple in the world.
(1:03:20) " That's the richest temple in the world. Anyway, that is what they say. I don't say it. However, definitely there was wealth, isn't it? When there have been times when the temple was strained for income, temple faced really hard times economically because wealth a gold necklace is wealth. It is not money. It is not liquidity for money.
(1:03:46) You need money. So if you sell that uh necklace and you get money then you can use it. Otherwise just by it being there it will not unless you pledge it >> and take money. Even in the times when uh the temple faced a drastic financial crisis which it did off and on in the modern times. >> Oh is it? uh yes during the time of chitra when all the changes came because from him he was giving he was submitting I wouldn't say give he was submitting so much from his own personal funds to a temple suddenly the prives stopped privileges go that is free electricity
(1:04:23) free water uh subsidize petrol um then so many no taxes uh like there so many things for everything the free is not there and you have to Okay. And you had lost your priv. So your financial crunch became really bad. >> And then even then he made the trust >> even then. But anyway um so when these things came he could have easily taken something. It was completely under him.
(1:04:53) He had to ask nobody. He could have opened one of the kaleras taken something sold it and used the money for the temple. Not to buy rice for the palace but for the temple for the needs of the temple he could not he did not touch. Oh, is it? >> He sold his own personal assets. His own personal assets.
(1:05:12) Some of them he would sell and he would give who knows. >> Oh, >> how many people know all this? What all nonsense you hear sometimes on the >> So the wealth was not even used for the temple. for the temple his own. I have myself seen some of the things after some time they are not there you know taken you know you know pillars silver pillars and things like cut cut into bits bits bits and sold and then finally >> both my uncles >> not only even Uttar has used his own money.
(1:05:47) >> Oh they cut their pillars and sold it and used it for the welfare of the temple for upkeeping >> for many things. Yeah. >> So like there so many all their own personal money >> which from the from the bank they would have they draw the money and that they submit to the temple both of them have done it. >> Tell me one thing does all this wealth belong to Padma Swami >> belongs to Padma Swami.
(1:06:12) >> Can you explain that? >> If I give you something >> Yeah. >> it is yours or mine or somebody else's? >> It's mine. >> It's yours. The all the things are sitting there with submissions to Patnosami during different time different spans of time. They belong to him and him alone. When the court case was going on, one offer came that the whole uh wealth must be evaluated.
(1:06:40) They have been invenized. They have not been evaluated because it's not possible to evaluate. M so make it into four h half for Patnos Swami temple quarter they will give us and quarter the government will take we said we want nothing >> is it >> we want nothing we don't want even a gram of gold or a grain of sand nothing it is all his we want nothing and quite a lot of it has been submitted by the family whatever people may said some people have different opinions but whatever that may some we don't have to convince them
(1:07:19) >> but uh huge amount came then some came as submissions from outside also >> okay >> definitely >> so when people sincerely ask that this wealth should be used for public welfare does it make sense >> outwardly it may make sense public purposes if you use the wealth how it will be utilized or misutilized you do not know then finally there'll be nothing left here and something or other may be done that should not be.
(1:07:48) We personally feel that what is his should remain his. >> And what is the difference between wealth and treasure? >> It's a huge difference. Uh because people wrongly qualify it as treasure. It is not treasure. It is wealth. Treasure is a dangerous word to use in this context because treasure normally you find underground uh and when you excavate or something and treasure belongs to the government to state.
(1:08:18) >> So the moment you use the words treasure Kerala government can possibly think that it is theirs. It wealth is different. >> Swata wealth is wealth. >> Treasure is something you stumble upon in one way or the other and at least portion of it would belong to the ruling administration. >> Okay.
(1:08:42) Okay. And what is the story of Walt B? Because there's so much of information around Walt B floating around. >> It is something magnified. It is something which has been blown out of proportion. First of all, all these alphabets did not exist. This A color, B color, the so-called A and B coloras were sharatala, mahabharat, the gold color, these were the original names.
(1:09:05) >> Okay. >> When they became A and B and all that. >> Okay. >> Now the the so-called B color, I do not know what it contains. Perhaps it is nothing. >> Oh, is it? You have no idea. >> No, perhaps it is nothing. Perhaps it is something. To the best of my knowledge it has not been opened for a very long time.
(1:09:23) Sometime it would have been opened. >> Long time as in is there you can think of a time or no idea. >> Then people keep on saying oh the there's in the records so many times the vora has been opened. Bala is made of two sections. One inner section and a a sort of a an elongated room with bars. >> Okay. >> Now you have to open the elongated room to get in.
(1:09:48) And there is another door leading to somewhere. The both these are behated room has been opened many times. >> Okay. >> Many there were silver vessels that this and all for so many reasons they were opened. >> Okay. >> But the other door to the best of our knowledge has not been opened. >> Okay. >> What it contains we do not know.
(1:10:11) What is its structure? Till where is are its dimensions to where does it lead? We do not know. >> Can it be opened? >> It has not been opened. >> Okay. >> And uh uh uh someday sometime but for what is it to satisfy the inquisitiveness of the people or the curiosity of the court? For what should it be opened? When it should not be opened, it need not be opened.
(1:10:39) Then there are so many stories connected with that. So we really do not know whether it has anything whether it has nothing we don't know. >> Okay. Then during the course of the case when when from April 24th 2014 Supreme Court removed the Travenco royal family from the administration and put up a Supreme Court um constituted committee to look after the temple in which the royal family had no representation, no say, no presence.
(1:11:11) >> Okay. During that time among the legal people who were deputed here uh two of them decided they went down to the balora open the outer chamber and told them you open this door all sorts of wrong information that it is bound by naga naga mandram and there are two huge the the presence of two huge snakes it's just a plain door >> okay so it's all wrong information >> all wrong all these things are wrong it's just a plain I have never been there.
(1:11:44) I have never been to the outer area also. >> Okay. >> But my son who has been there, he said absolutely plain. >> There's no nagab, nothing. So they said open the door. So a huge bunch of keys were brought from somewhere. They tried all the keys. It would not open. >> Oh, is it? >> Because nobody knows where the keys of the be are. >> Okay. >> Nobody knows.
(1:12:00) >> Okay. >> So it would not open. Then they decided no, it has to be opened. And they said we will get a gas cutter and cut open the door. And they are ordered and they are supreme court supreme. So they ordered ordered for a gas cutter to be brought like whirlwind. The information spread into the temple and it was a panic situation because so many stories are there connected with the this kalera. Yeah.
(1:12:26) >> There is one story saying that inside it is the ocean of milk or pali which if it is opened it will come out and flood flood the area. There is another story saying that there there are rishies, sages in their astral form sitting in meditation and prayer. They should not be disturbed.
(1:12:47) Then there is another thing saying there is a yakshi a very malvolent spirit who was very fierce who had been tamed by narimhas swami and she is sitting there in meditation she should not be reawakened like this so many stories so many oral traditions are there >> and this was passed to you this was told to you by somebody or >> we have been hearing this not after we came up in like this okay and then during this um ashtamangala prashnam they they said that certain chakras >> you know like Sri chakra sudarana chakra you know chakra so one chakra has been
(1:13:23) buried under the earth in the kala >> okay >> and the charges of that chakra connect directly to batnosami's mulab bima and the the charge should not be interrupted so if you open this that can get broken oh can you see the charge no you cannot but when the TV comes Or the radio comes can you see from where it comes? Can you see? You can't.
(1:13:51) Light comes from where does it come? Yeah. So like that these charges are connecting Bhagavan's bimum and they cannot be disturbed because once they disturbed maybe maybe there are not people who will be able to reestablish it. Today people with that capacity we do not know like there's so many things are there. They said cut open.
(1:14:13) So they brought they went to get the miss. So one of the judges he was walking up and down. He would walk up to the door of the kalera, >> walk back. They're waiting. So he was walking up and down, up and down. Suddenly somebody found a drop of blood on the floor and it is a stream. It's a long line of blood up to the door of the beaker. It is coming from his foot.
(1:14:38) >> Oh my god. His he has hurt his foot and one stream of blood dropped dropped dropped dropped up to the door of the vehicle. Oh my god. The moment he saw that they got frightened immediately they said they cancel the gas cutter shut the door lock it and they came never have they tried again after that. >> This is what actually happened >> actually happened.
(1:15:03) The the person whose leg was cut is very much alive. He himself has talked about it. Whether he has talked about the blood, I don't know. But he has talked about it in the papers and the TV also. He has talked. >> He's very much alive. >> He's a judge of the Supreme Court. Now I think he's retired. >> Okay.
(1:15:21) You're very you're a very passionate writer. You wrote about the temple, the Padma Swami, the book. You wrote that about 10 years before this legal dispute started. >> Yes. >> Ever before the world actually got to know about the history of the temple at that time. What did you want the readers to understand about the temple? >> I just because there was despite the fact that it was a royal temple, despite the fact that it was the temple um of Travenco and all that, there was very little information about it except fragmentaryary fragmented information.
(1:15:50) Okay. So whatever little I knew I wanted to put sort of put it together within two two covers and bring out a book. >> Okay. >> That was the only idea. >> Okay. And I thought it would be very easy for me because this family >> it would be very easy for me. But once I started I understood that I'm walking into a an ocean without boundaries.
(1:16:11) >> Okay. >> There's so much so much so much. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So much the eth edition is now coming. Seven editions uh of the temple the book are over. >> Okay. >> The eighth edition is now coming into print very soon. So when people read it, what can they find in it? Everything about >> you have to ask them. >> Oh, there's so much of information.
(1:16:32) Oh yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. >> Yes. I I I guess so. I mean I can't say there's no information. There is others. What's the point in writing a book? >> Yeah. Right. And you received the Padma Shri recently. How was that experience for you? What did it make you feel? >> It was totally unexpected. Nobody I have never worked for any award.
(1:16:57) By the grace of Patnav Swami including day before yesterday's award I have 82 awards >> 82 patm come somewhere in between 50 or 40 50 something I never knew about it I have never thought about the patmashri or anything one day that is on the 25th of January 2024 12:30 here I was standing in the next room and I got a phone and they said they're calling from Delhi I was wondering why they're calling me I don't got him maybe one of the advocates we know so many people we had made friends somebody then the person said I'm calling from the ministry congratulations
(1:17:32) you are but you're being a petm you're getting a patmry so I just didn't know what he was talking about so I told him I think you called the wrong person >> out of nowhere >> uh uh and I'm sure because I have never thought of the padmashri never so and I was sure that he he had got the wrong person and why should they give me a pmashri So uh I said you got the wrong person please check and call the right person.
(1:17:59) Then he told my full name my nakatra everything it is me and then he asked I are you would you accept it so I said definitely then please don't tell anybody uh to tonight we will be announcing >> all in one phone call >> one phone tonight because that is 25th 26th is a republic day when the uh when these things are announced >> so 25th they'll be officially announcing it and 26th it will come and then actually getting it would be at some later stage >> right Later he asked me are there any press people near you? I said no then
(1:18:31) please don't tell anybody. I never said I will not tell anybody. I never said he said don't tell anybody. >> I did not say anything but I did not tell anybody because I was still convinced that there was some mistake. I only people I told was my elder sister and her husband. Only people but that night it came.
(1:18:49) I have no idea who nominated. I have no idea how it happened. Of course I'm happy but I still wonder how why. And the next month I and and then only problem that came was uh that they had decided to give the pmashri in April the day next to the arat in the patnosami temple. Now for the patmasri people they are supposed to come the day previous they have to come to Delhi for me to come to Delhi previous I would have to miss the arat.
(1:19:16) So I did not even have to think one minute. I phoned them and said I am unable to come. >> What is the aratama? That is the 10th day of the Patnos Swami Temple festival. Uh the last concluding day we have two festivals annual festivals. Now it's going to start in March. Now it 2nd of April this time is Arat and uh the even the procession from the temple comes to the beach for a holy dip and goes back >> and it walks over the runway.
(1:19:44) >> It walks through the runway. >> Oh and the all the international flights all the flights are rescheduled. temple is clo the airport is closed for aviation traffic and the Guinness book it can easily go into the Guinness book because for a temp for an airport international airport to close >> but this when the land was made available for the airport that is during Maharaj's time my uncle's time >> he he said orally there is no nothing in writing he said orally 363 days in the year this land is for the public.
(1:20:24) Yeah. Oh, the procession passes through and now has come there also it is no longer the other airport but with great honor and all that continues. I don't know why I said that. Yes. So the Arat Arat Arat was coming the next day was Padmashri. Yeah. >> So I would have to go without without the procession.
(1:20:57) I did not have any time to think. I just told them my priority is this. I cannot come. But fortunately for me the they had they were giving the pet machine in two sections. They said you don't worry we are giving it in two sections then we will put you in the next section. So like that I went and got the petition. >> Oh wonderful.
(1:21:14) And the next month I got a doctorate in honorary dealit in literature from the Salem Minaka University. They gave me the doctorate. That is the next month. >> Okay. Well, what do you hope that you know the the Travenore royal family? What do you hope what traditions and you know how would you like to see the legacy continue in your future generations? What is your hope your dream for them? >> I don't dream.
(1:21:39) >> You don't. >> What do you wish for them? I hope but I don't dream >> that as long as the sun and the moon exist our service and submissions to pata swami should remain and that in our hearts he should be there. Oh swaming may you be you know not just give happiness intoxication exaltation exhilaration may that come into our hearts and may our hearts sing only of you may my mind in exultation ex and exhilaration
(1:22:24) ecstatic exuberance may come think only of you only of you only of you from that let it be that is my dream not my dream I don't know what it is I don't know how to call it but it may not be I mean each person has their own but then everybody is bound by Swami there is no doubt about that and he will decide but dear god let it not ever get broken may he may swami bless us that is our greatest blessing and may that continue >> lastly what is one question that you always have wanted to be asked but never asked. Is there anything something that
(1:23:07) you wish somebody asked? Oh number of questions not one but then unfortunately they cannot on such a platform they cannot be asked and answered as of now maybe at a later stage it would be possible but as of now it would be unwise >> at some time definitely but otherwise I mean I don't know anything anybody can ask what whatever we can answer we answer if there is something we cannot answer we would say unfortunately we cannot answer and that this end of it, >> right? It's been so wonderful to understand things from you, your
(1:23:45) experiences. It's an absolute honor and there's so much about you out there. But to talk to you, sit in front of you and to just feel your emotions and it just gives me an insight into who you are and I'm so thankful for this opportunity. It's been such a pleasure. Thank you so much for making the time. >> Thank you very much.
(1:24:03) It was a pleasure for me also to sit and look at a pretty girl. Yeah. And >> it's the same for Mama >> and you look here such a strong woman. So much inspiration I draw from it. >> But anyway, so thank you very much and all the best. May may God in whichever form you think of him uh bless you and lead you on and God bless. >> Thank you so much Namaskar. Namaskarum.