SECRETS OF CHAKRAS WITH DAAJI - Karma, Inner Journey & Spiritual Growth | TRS
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Title: SECRETS OF CHAKRAS WITH DAAJI - Karma, Inner Journey & Spiritual Growth | TRS
Author Name: Ranveer Allahbadia
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In this 551st (overall 1056th) episode of The Ranveer Show, We sits down with Kamlesh Patel (Daaji), Padma Bhushan awardee and guide of the Heartfulness way of meditation, for a deep and thought-provoking conversation about meditation, consciousness, chakras, karma and life beyond this realm.
Daaji shares insights from decades of spiritual practice, from starting meditation as a college student to leading the Heartfulness movement. He explains how meditation can lift the burdens we carry and help us hear the voice of our own heart.
They also explore free will and destiny, why struggle is necessary for growth, the inner journey through the chakras, and why the search for the divine must turn inward. Along the way, he shares unforgettable experiences from his own spiritual journey.
If you are interested in meditation, spirituality, consciousness, chakras, karma, kundalini, life after death, the Bhagavad Gita and inner peace, this episode is for you.
00:00 – Daaji On TRS
03:59 – Experiencing Heartfulness Meditation
05:58 – What Is Pranahuti?
06:49 – The Hidden Burden of Past Lives
07:46 – What Daaji Was Doing at 33
11:07 – Is Destiny Fixed?
11:49 – Why Falling Teaches More Than Success
15:08 – The Nonsense Humans Waste Life On
17:04 – How to Hear the Voice of Your Heart
19:05 – The Occult Side of Heartfulness
23:49 – What It Feels Like to Transmit Energy
28:54 – How to Escape the Cycle of Birth and Death
29:50 – What Lies in the Next Dimension?
34:34 – Is One Lifetime Enough for Moksha?
35:16 – The Truth About Kundalini Awakening
38:31 – Is Even God Evolving?
41:39 – The Deities Behind Each Chakra
45:12 – The Five Chakras of the Heart
47:12 – How Desire Leads to Anger and Fear
51:55 – How Long Does the Inner Journey Take?
55:18 – Feeling Lost in Your Early 30s
57:02 – Mantra vs Meditation
58:26 – Krishna Says I Dwell in Every Heart
1:03:43 – Daaji's Biggest Turning Points
1:09:15 – Why the Path Brings More Suffering
1:11:28 – Why the Spiritual Journey Is Lonely
1:13:27 – Daaji's Final Message
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Welcome to the official Ranveer Allahbadia channel. What began as BeerBiceps has evolved into a global hub for personal growth. Our mission: to upgrade your mindset, intellect, and soul through unfiltered, high-impact conversations.
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Transcript:
(00:01) How do we escape this cycle of birth and death and just leave this realm? >> What is so wrong with your life? >> I think if one is continuously born in this realm, then you'll be subject to some of the other kind of difficulty. What guarantees you that it will not be in another dimension is nothing very special.
(00:33) >> What are some things you can list out as nonsense that human beings engage with? Well, first and foremost is >> say you gain so-called enlightenment here. You're promoted to that next dimension. >> Definitely. >> So what happens to the nature of life at the end externally it will be same but internally it'll be world of difference.
(00:57) It's [music] like angels walking on the earth. You think it's wise to [music] kind of segregate your own consciousness into the one that belongs to human society and the one that belongs to yourself and your spiritual journey? >> Yes. >> And as you move forward, it's just you and your consciousness. >> That's it.
(01:16) That's why they say mind your business. [laughter] >> India's a land of mystics and I've had the phenomenal fortune of meeting of these mystics through the show. This is our second episode with Daji. We actually went to Hyderabad, went to his spiritual center called Kha, explored it a bit and then sat with this Padma Bhan awardee.
(01:42) That's the highest level civilian honor in India. He's contributed immensely to the Indian spiritual movement. In fact, we began this episode with what he calls a heartfulness meditation, which is his own type of meditation. Now, to perform the heartfulness meditation, you need to be in the presence of a guru. This entire conversation was very rich, very dense, esoteric on some level, very thoughtprovoking.
(02:07) We spoke about reality beyond Nirvana or Mo. We spoke about how to progress through your current human reality in great detail. You'll enjoy this episode if you're a seeker like myself. You'll definitely enjoy this episode if you followed Daji over the years. But this was just a very dense spiritual conversation after a while. Keep following TRS. Lots more like this.
(02:27) But for now, enjoy this special conversation with Daji on the Reanbir Show. [music] [music] Dhan
(03:15) ultimate wisdom flowing through. >> Uh I'm hoping that that's what happens in today's conversation also. I know it'll happen in today's conversation. Um I revisited our first conversation that happened 6 years ago. >> It was a lot >> 6 and a half years actually. Uh I was a very different person.
(03:38) Uh I believe you were pretty much the same. Uh but I'm a little more equipped to speak to you now. I think and we in Hyderabad. I promised you I'll be here. >> So >> that's so nice of you. >> No, I had to do this uh piece with you. There's something that needs to get out and appear in front of the world through today's conversation.
(03:58) I'm not sure what it is. >> Thank you. >> Where do you suggest we begin? >> Well, we started already. I wanted you to experience this meditation. How meditation differs from traditional word tan >> and how we get transported to higher orbits of consciousness each time you meditate. >> Yeah. And you have experienced that. How did you feel? >> Definitely went somewhere else.
(04:27) I think the consciousness traveled somewhere else. Uh I felt very blank and I forgot that we're shooting a podcast. Like uh your voice also almost was um just new to me. I was like, "Oh, why is there a voice?" And then I came back. >> So I definitely went somewhere else. But I'm feeling great after this. >> Very lovely.
(04:49) Very lovely. And that was hardly 15 minutes of meditation. You see, and I often tell the world that he need not have faith in anything. Like when you experiment with for example sodium plus chloride, >> you bring them together. Sodium is a notorious element they call in periodic table. It's explosive. M >> chlorine is poisonous but bring them together they become life sustaining salt >> sodium chloride.
(05:28) Now such is got the thing when we combine consciousness with pranuti >> pranut transmission >> transmission. Yeah. I tell the world that you know it is this pranuti that you have to experience. You need not believe what it can do to you. We experience the impact of that flow with your consciousness with your awareness and take it from there based on the results you feel your perception see how it has changed.
(06:05) Now the next question that would arise what is this pranai? said one I told you that one that transports our available present consciousness to the next higher level of consciousness. Right? It also does something remarkable. I also mentioned to you that when balloon is held up on a thread and on a stone as you remove this burden it can go higher and higher like that.
(06:36) Pranavahi also tends to remove many things we have collected as the burden of guilt perhaps, emotions, impressions from our past or conditioning that weighs down on you. >> Even stuff from the past life constitutes the weight of the stone. >> Of course, it's perhaps worse than that. >> Wow.
(07:00) As in worse than the present life's weight. It can be but you remain unconscious of it because thankfully nature prevents that memory of distant past. >> Should that memory be unlocked and should we be able to see it? >> I think it will always be to your disadvantage >> because many souls they travel together the kmas has to be settled against each other.
(07:32) wife was a mother perhaps once upon a time. >> How would you tackle that relationship? >> It's the best to stay in the dark about >> existence is bliss. >> How was your life when you were 33 which is my age? >> Well, I was running a pharmacy business in New York City. [laughter] >> Wow. And uh I was also practicing meditation then cuz I had started this meditation when I was 18 years of age during my college time.
(08:10) I had already then two boys in life and happily married very peaceful life. The reason I'm asking you this is as I was going around the heartfulness foundation today >> I was thinking that hey this is exactly kind of what I want to do in life you know even I wish to create this uh utopian piece of land where people can evolve together and work at the same time.
(08:40) >> Correct. >> What I really enjoyed seeing was the go academy which is also here. >> You saw it already? >> Yeah. I mean not not from the inside but >> we got to see from inside. Nothing like it ins of the world. >> Yeah. For those people who are not familiar with it, it's where India's back and champions have come out of.
(08:58) >> Yes. >> Uh and I'm sure there's a lot more that I've not seen here as well. But um it's kind of like one hand in the material world, one hand in the spiritual world. >> Exactly. I think you have hit the essence of this heartfulness way. >> Yeah. I mean, how old are you now, Daji? >> 70. >> Okay.
(09:20) So, roughly how much? slightly double your age. >> 37 years >> elder to you. >> Wow. So in 37 years what happened for you to establish this today? >> It's not incrementals. Many things can happen in the quantum leap. >> You see sometimes we climb one foot and then you expect that next time it will be one foot plus. Sometime it can be negative also but you begin you can fall down also sometimes instead of 1 ft of increment you can have maybe 100 ft of jump >> so life plays games with us I think when >> nicely so it's never to your disadvantage never ever
(10:06) it may seem like [clears throat] you are going backward at some time in life but there is no backwardness nothing that pulls you back from this evolutionary trajectory unless you choose it yourself. >> What do you mean unless you choose it yourself? Suppose I tell you I'll show you the way instead of you walking on this road.
(10:30) Why don't you walk? I mean you why don't you come? I'll give you a ride. I'm driving to the same place. It's your choice. Someone might come at say and they come let me take you to your destination and ends up taking you to some different place. M >> child going to a school decided mommy I'm going to school goes with the friends to a club >> these are the choices we make and some are evolutionary in nature and some are not so evolutionary in nature so we have that freedom you know many people they ask me this question
(11:11) what is destiny to you is it fixed or do I have some freedom to choose. So it's a mixture of all these things because whatsoever we have done in our past consequences will be there. That doesn't mean that I'm slave to my past. I can recreate something that I created in my past I can create it now for my better future.
(11:44) See, so we have the primary thing is we have freedom to choose. Yeah. >> Um you know you said that sometimes it may seem like you're going backwards but everything happens for our evolution. >> Uh I think you only think you're going backwards because of societal conditioning. >> Correct. >> Maybe the world will perceive you as going backwards and tell you but you internally might just be moving forward.
(12:06) You have learned a big lesson actually that no success can teach you when you really really go astray for some time >> and you rise back again. That has taught you a lesson which you write in your diary for your grandchildren that you see I made this boo. I fell and I rose. You will not write such words of glory when you rise yourself in a normal way >> because there is nothing fascinating about it.
(12:45) >> Moreover, when [clears throat] we make mistakes for it hurts us. We pay the price also. But if we keep ruminating on those things, you have a choice again. See either you ruminate or learn from the results of those things and evolve out of it. So learning lessons from your own falls, [snorts] your own success and failures.
(13:16) I think it life is all about that. If you don't learn anything from the mistakes or the miseries or the pain we go through which is translated as fall or going backward but when taken it as evolutionary that I have learned something from this then it becomes a stepping stone for higher growth. >> So did you experience any falls? many times >> and you were able to bounce back.
(13:46) >> Bounce back. Correct. >> But on your path of bouncing back, did you also feel lost? >> No. Cuz I had the confidence that since I started this meditation very early around 18 years of age, I was able to see many a times I see myself making mistake before even committing to it. Right. So that is one great advantage.
(14:15) So I would approach that process very hes with lot of hesitation. Sometime I would succumb to it and pay the price for it. >> As you knew you're going to make a mistake but you' still do it. >> Many of us end up doing that. It is quite human >> and many such mistakes knowingly done then deters you. Then you begin to cooperate with nature.
(14:45) Nature means the voice of your own heart. When heart says >> so that is a turning point in your life where you you are able to listen to your heart with confidence and you have enough guts to say okay no more nonsense. M >> what are some things you can list out as nonsense that human beings engage with? >> Well, first and foremost is they don't understand their very own potential.
(15:22) We all have great potential. Selfishness is dominating. Interests doesn't last long for any of any hobby also. People say I have a hobby in music. They think hobby in music is only listening. Have you picked up any instrument? Some people say I love sports. But what sports have you it's watching basketball uh you know playing out in US or some fool playing out his uh golf and millions watching them play or
(16:08) two dozen people playing cricket and they say oh I'm a sports fan you are a view you are not a sportsman so we have to differentiate so many things and understand The right understanding is absolutely missing. >> Are you saying that you have a limited amount of time in this particular birth and therefore it must be utilized for something constructive >> wisely? Yes.
(16:37) >> That is that aspect of free will. >> Yes. Again that we have to make a choice. >> See God does not interfere with our choices. M >> someone wants to murder someone, God is not going to chop off your hand, he has given you that ultimate freedom. Rather, it's up to us how we make use of it. >> How do you connect with your own conscience in order to let nature guide you more easily other than meditation? [laughter] Is there any other path? Yes, there is no other path.
(17:20) Actually, your heart understands it very naturally >> that it's only in the stillness where you'll be able to hear the voice of your conscience. >> Even while making noise, you'll know. >> You're in a party. You're dancing away with your friends. Many people end up doing wrong things there knowingly that is wrong. Right? How did that voice came about even in that noisy atmosphere >> yet we end up doing because our desire is so strong perhaps lust is also so strong.
(18:00) So the circumstance is overdrives over you. So that's why the voice of the heart though it's so subtle and so gentle it speaks loudly even when there is external noise. So we cannot say that you know it's only that meditators they know the voice of the conscience. Everyone knows even a small child 2 years of age drinking bottle you know milk suddenly milk drops bottle child knows it has fallen something has
(18:44) gone wrong >> looks at mother see the conscience is very well uh programmed with our genes with our DNA Okay, it's not foreign to us. Of course, ignoring is another matter. >> When we were touring the Heartfulness Foundation, uh the one word that kept popping up in my head again and again is the occult. I don't know why not I'm not talking about anything magical etc etc.
(19:22) But I do feel there's a lot of things in this geography that I wasn't able to put into words because this level of peace is not normal. [laughter] So other than the trees, other than the way it's landscaped, I am sure there are some processes that are happening here uh which are creating this peaceful vibe in the air. >> So true. So true.
(19:44) >> What is this occult uh aspect of the Heartfulness Foundation? It's the atmosphere, environment we create. You see, have you visited some clubs, dances and blah blah blah all have you visited some beautiful guru and temples? >> Yes. >> You see the atmosphere, it's up to us the kind of atmosphere we end up creating.
(20:11) You see, have you met a couple who is in fight and you enter the room The same friends who are so lovely, so loving towards each other and after the fight you look at them, they look so ugly. >> Change the atmosphere totally. So our actions and more than our actions, our thoughts, our intentions, our goals in life, they play out very loudly in the external environment we walk around.
(20:49) Now I give you a small example. Human being can be conditioned that this is a meditation place and so you have to behave it that way. But what about plants? You see I have experimented accidentally. We had tomato plants and uh we grafted some brindel plants and kept them around meditation hall and we kept some of them also same conditions in other at other locations outside the ashram.
(21:24) You can see the striking difference in the growth. M >> double triple the growth around meditation hall. So this is perceptible, this is pulpable, this is visible. Um in fact plants and trees have no resistance when it comes to spiritual atmosphere. They are able to maintain whatsoever you put it as divine charge.
(21:54) They're able to retain it. Human beings they're not able to maintain that because of their constant disturbance within themselves keep spoiling that inner state. >> That's why the reputations are necessary for human. >> Is there research that takes place here? >> Yes. Yes. We have not only here we are we are present in 160 countries.
(22:20) >> Okay. Researches are happening [clears throat] at multiple locations across the globe actually in especially in hospitals and some research centers some universities >> all of it is related to meditation. >> Meditation various meditation that we offer. How ordinary meditation differs from meditation done with pranuti? See in 2003 I had an opportunity of addressing students at Draxel in Philadelphia.
(22:54) There was in initial batch of 20 students and I was given 3 months to educate them on meditation. So we used to have session only on weekends Saturdays or 1 hour or so. I divided those guys into few groups like you meditate as per your liking for one week. Ask your father or mother add up their system. >> You do the research and find your own another method and you guys exchange these methods with each other and write your experiences.
(23:31) Then last two weeks I told them look you meditate now with heartfulness way of meditation. method was given but no transmission was given. >> And the final week meditation with transmission. >> When one is giving transmission, what does one feel when you're giving it? >> You feel as if you're also meditating.
(23:59) >> Okay. >> So there was a big difference. They say this is the best thing that has happened to them. When you meditate with pranati, it becomes easier for them and the results are so convincing that yes, this is it. There's nothing better than this. We had done study also here at as Delhi under the guidance of Dr. Sinas. It's a director.
(24:29) He used to be director and we compiled lot of systems. I don't like to name names all prevalent big time uh Indian systems and nothing comes closer to this way of meditation done with pranuti >> but are are you the only person capable of giving transmission [clears throat] >> we have trained almost 18,000 people who can also transmit So this is a continuous program and we don't charge you know when we don't charge at all anything for uh training uh newcomers into the system when they
(25:18) say oh I would like to meditate and be part of this no charges no membership fees no incremental programs and so you do this program so much that program so much that is out of question >> to become that trainer also or you [clears throat] don't you don't pay anything. It's simple uh like you experience something and you say oh I like to teach this to my friends >> so your simple willingness is required that yes and that abilities will be granted now only can also transmit something like that >> is it kind of like you become a channel
(26:00) to >> uh you hit the right word >> you transmit something from a higher power >> yes >> what is the higher power >> ultimate source. >> Okay. So even when you and your meditating right now, you were channelizing something. >> Correct. >> How do you feel while channelizing? >> I feel empty. >> Okay.
(26:20) That just your physical presence allows it to be for >> Yeah. I'm also in meditation. I feel that and sometimes I also feel uh what sort of work is required that will facilitate reand's meditation. Okay. >> What needs to be removed from particular chakra for example, it will come to my knowledge and that burden will be removed not the details.
(26:48) >> Okay. >> Okay. Sometime [clears throat] some something has happened and that creates heaviness in your on particular chakra. My purpose is to remove the heaviness not to go in details and they will not surface also. M >> you can just see something blocked >> something blocked heavier in you and that needs to be removed >> and that blockage is usually because of life >> things things that happens to us especially emotional thing that happens because of our nearest and dearest ones >> like betrayal for example >> someone cheating on you
(27:29) >> people come like that oh I gave all my life to him and See how he misused me. >> I had beautiful business relationship with so and so. I invested all my money and it's gone. See >> divorce situations, people struggling with money. Day-to-day life is tough. So we build up all these uh stress within us. Stress sometimes people say it's bad but of course unless there is stress you what will you do without the stress >> pain is the gateway to evolution >> evolution
(28:14) >> so minimum stress why what I call you stress EU stress is required you know once I was invited to an university asking me to give a talk to some students master's program so the dean of the faculty was saying you All these children they are always stressed out before exams. Can your meditation reduce it? I say why would you want to reduce it? Let them have greater stress.
(28:44) If you remove the stress, they will not study well. >> You need that little bit of stress and pain. >> Some level is required >> to just keep you going. >> Yes. >> But uh how do we escape the cycle of birth and death and just leave this realm? Well, I have my own understanding of it. What is so wrong with your life? >> I think if one is continuously born in this realm, then you'll be subject to some of the other kind of difficulty.
(29:15) One guarantees you that that it will not be in another dimension. You see the you go to gym I suppose. >> Yeah. >> Unless there is resistance, how will you build muscles? M >> at each dimension I think it provides you enough of resistance in life for it to grow for it to evolve. Next dimension also definitely had different levels of resistances then the next then the next.
(29:50) >> Are you comfortable speaking about what the next dimension is? Yes. If you want you can >> I would love to >> if you understand this principle of invertendo. >> Invertendo. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Meaning [clears throat] what is at the lower level it's it is seen as a mirror image at the higher level. For example, heart chakra is there chakra.
(30:19) It's divided into lower and higher. Okay. have that in your mind. Okay. Next, there are many other chakras. But when you go to another dimension and you enter Brahman or cosmic chakra starts there and imagine that as a circle just I want you to imagine it and divide it into upper and lower. Now what was upper at the heart becomes lower here.
(30:51) >> Yeah. So this experiences will keep changing. Now that's one aspect of it. Second aspect is the energy movement. What was moving here in a clockwise manner it will become anticlockwise there that is it own consequences there and then yet another higher level it will again be reverses. experiences wise when I had the understanding communicating with my masters there are no bodies >> you're talking about the next world >> next world we call brighter world >> brighter world >> yeah there yeah >> uh kind of can be understood as heaven
(31:34) or the astral world or >> I like to call it brighter >> okay >> uh there are only vibrations there no physical bodies you You will have your own uh system but it's all vibratory in nature. You will have your own levels of bliss. You'll your own level of understanding also. You'll also learn from each other.
(32:01) How do I oscillate >> properly? For example, when we sit here, we are facing each other, right? You had a choice of pulling your legs and stretching and touching my feet. your legs touching my feet and kick me sometimes now and then that's one way of disposition there also automatically you adjust with your oscillations your vibrations when a higher being is there with certain level of frequency you will try to fine-tune with that being it cannot remain in
(32:48) vibrating irregularly or with intensity sometime and less intensity next time. There is some sort of a samata there. See harmony there. Whosoever you meet, you become harmonious with the higher being. You try to match their frequency. H >> you cannot tolerate your happiness in us at that time. >> Can you contrast it with this realm that we are in right now >> with the gift of this physical body? I would not say it's a curse.
(33:27) Incarnation has its own benefits like we have five senses. They don't have those things. Five senses have their advantages and disadvantages. We begin to like things. We begin to dislike things. We are attracted. We are repulsed. So they all have price to pay for those things. >> This thing is absent there. >> What is absent? This five uh dual this dual we call.
(34:07) >> Okay. likes, dislikes, >> polarity, dwanda they call in Sanskrit, it's absent there. >> So say you gain so-called enlightenment here. You you're promoted to that next dimension. >> Definitely you begin from where you left. >> Okay. And if you don't reach enlightenment in this birth, then you're born again in this realm and you have to continue.
(34:30) >> It's like your fifth grade. If you fail in fifth grade, you have to repeat. >> But is one lifetime enough? Like I'm 33 now. I probably have 40 50 years of life left. Is that enough for me to get promoted to the next dimension? >> That very desire will prevent you from reaching out. >> It happens through our evolution that even is the true liberation or true freedom is when you have abandoned the idea of very freedom itself.
(35:05) Got it. >> See, and it has to arrive in a very natural way. >> I cannot force it to happen. >> That arrive in a natural way is also for lack of better words. I'm sorry I'm encapsulating so many thoughts. But is it like comfortable kundalini jagan? >> It's a joke actually. Kundalini is is to my guru's views and I from my experiences I tell you it's nothing very special it can destroy a person
(35:49) >> it's like an atom bomb going off inside you >> is atom bomb can [clears throat] of course it's something it's a good comparison >> uh when someone asked my guru that you know he said it just unlocks higher faculties in your human body. >> Not really. Person who is seeking powers is not looking for higher faculties.
(36:33) >> So what does an awakened kundalini leave you with? >> There's no awakened kini. It cannot be also awakened just like that. There will be only aberrations. >> You will feel vibrations and there will be some sort of side effects arising out of it. Many people who have tried this kulini jagril processes through other systems they come to me and the way I gave you sitting meditation session I give them also meditation session but when such people I encounter with such people what I see is very disturbed system
(37:18) entire system is halfard there's so much of uh violence within their system. M >> you know their body also will vibrate during meditation they'll do like this like this and I asked them why what what have you done and almost all of them they say we have practiced but the side Similar thing happens with pranayam.
(38:01) All problems are great. But when you exaggerate it, when you overdo it and you say my kumbak is now reaching 3 and 1/2 minutes or 2 minutes or 6 minutes that kumbak will again disturb the entire energy channels. So One needs a guide. >> That's what I think you're loosely trying to say. >> You know, you spoke about that higher dimension.
(38:34) >> G. >> What is the purpose of living there? Because I assume there's no life and death. There's just existence. >> Correct. >> And then there's a higher dimension after that as well. >> After that also. So it's there is a continuity until one plunges into the source. That happens only when there is what we call maha prraa.
(38:58) When everything dissolves into that singularity >> for everyone, >> everyone will get there. >> That's ultimate >> ultimate not escape merger >> merger. >> Now what happens there? You see you may ask a fundamental question. If we all return back, what was the purpose of creation? >> Yeah.
(39:24) Why do we have to go through all this? >> Yeah. >> One example will, I think, help you understand it. Let's say you have half a dozen boys, your children, >> and to each you give $2 million each. After 10 years they come back to you, dad see what I have done. Everyone will have their stories. You will feel sorry for the person who did not make much and lost.
(40:01) >> Your love will not reduce. You will you'll have same affection the way you had the affection of pride in another son >> who jumped from 2 million to perhaps two billion. Right now the idea of achievements there the potency with which we were ejected from the source let us say it was X potency and at multiple dimensional travels you have evolved now with let us say 500x >> someone returns with 50x someone returns with X divided by 10,000 they all merge is there at the moment of
(40:50) mahapra and when the next cycle starts it starts with your 10,000x or x divided by 5,000 so it's a continuous evolution also of the source >> even god is evolving >> god is also evolving >> into what but what does that go to >> I don't know why I wish I can tell you first of all I have to understand god to see his evolution even that is difficult >> you know even if it is possible that oh even if I describe God how would you justify that description I
(41:34) gave you is of God it's too beyond our >> reach beyond words >> um we went to the chakra garden >> although really see so many things. >> It was great. I was very fascinated by the statues of the deities because I'm currently uh you know a lot of mantra based uh sadha that's on in my life. So I saw durama statue I saw I think I saw Jesus Christ if I'm not mistaken >> on the second chakra.
(42:07) >> Yeah. Um what was the relation of all those deities with the chakras? >> Oh it's beautiful. [clears throat] See when we are passing through the second chakra our system is bit very practical in nature we skip first three chakras muladal swadistan and manipur >> we skip them >> what do you mean skip them like what is traveling our consciousness >> because they are common to us and the animal kingdom >> okay >> our starting point is chakra >> because human beings are evolved enough to have awakened heart chakra. So we
(42:53) begin our journey from there and if you find a right guru who can help you travel within the heart chakra, master it and then go to the next chakra that is atma chakra. >> When but so what do you mean by travel? Do you mean our own consciousness? on consciousness will move just as I mentioned to you that there is dimensional difference between this life and the next.
(43:19) There is a difference also within one chakra to another chakra. >> Okay. >> At one chakra there are higher and lower levels also. At higher you will feel something. At lower you will feel something. They are all different feelings. Are you saying that this is a spiritual journey where you have to travel through your own chakras in this life? >> That is the real pilgrimage.
(43:44) >> Got it. >> External pilgrimage is human uh con concept. >> It's a reflection of what's actually meant to be done inside your body. >> Much more than that actually because in nature there is nothing like Darika or Aayodhya or Makkah or Jerusalem. These are all human created. What nature has created all these chakras we have to undergo the experience of our consciousness how it unfolds when we move from one to another.
(44:22) M >> so when we come arrive at the second chakra when my consciousness is fully opening up at second chakra you'll feel extraordinary peace extraordinary calm you'll feel very compassionate loving all the qualities which are attributed to Lord Jesus you will experience it there >> so that's why Um we kept that statue of Lord Jesus there.
(44:55) Fifth chakra since you must have seen that dura. >> Yeah. >> It's a point of energy. Yeah. >> Also it's a point of maya plays out both. There are so many like that. So what I've gathered until now is that um what we are traditionally told is that there are seven chakras on the human body.
(45:21) You've also said that the first three chakras are common between yourself and the animal kingdom. >> Correct. >> Perhaps in your soul's journey, you've already traveled through those >> correct >> three chakras. And currently because in this human form, the main game is to be played in the heart region. >> Heart region. >> And this heart region is divided into more chakras.
(45:37) >> Five chakras. >> Five chakras. And each of them represents >> punch buddhas >> earth fire wind water >> correct >> space and for most people they have not even tapped into the first of the heart chakras >> 99.99999 not >> but say if someone is doing another kind of spiritual practice like for for example me if I'm doing like my mantra sad am I still tapping into that heart chakra you're >> you keep tapping it but there will not be movement.
(46:13) >> It won't be opened and unknown. >> When do you know the movement? Let us see. You are traveling by train and then train and you see the platform after two days the same platform. >> That means you are stuck. >> Easiest way to find it. Have you changed from within? Had someone told you you're different than they your expressions are different very subtle your wife your friends or your mother or father will tell you this is some you are different today you'll feel internally different your inner environment will change with each
(47:01) station >> and therefore your outer environment also changes >> will change your frequency your energy everything will change M >> the aura you will carry with you will change >> and karma blocks these chakras >> that's a fundamental thing what we call karma in heartfulness we call them with samscars >> or conditioning whatsoever you do or don't do >> uh creates an impression in you see for example there is a chakra just below the heart chakra and that gets triggered with every likes and dislikes
(47:47) >> and it's very difficult for a human being to remain without any likes or dislikes. That's why Krishna puts a big challenge arrive at sta balanced where there is neither likes nor dislikes. >> Now what are these likes and dislikes? There are only two types either sensual or material world related. These are worldly worries, sensual worries. You look at someone,
(48:32) oh, she is gorgeous. Maybe I should become friendly with her. That attraction that arouses sensual feelings within you. So there are only two types of likes and dislikes. We keep creating all the time. Now the impressions created by worldly worries are not as grosser or heavier compared to sensual ones. So they get deposited at a little lower level and you will be able to feel it as you practice this system.
(49:13) You'll be able to feel that even a single thought of some sensuality pops up in your head. You see the vibrations stirring up at that chakra. Now what happens when that chakra is spoiled affected rather not spoiled affected unfulfilled desired disturbance >> you'll become assant >> that affect your atma chakra >> atma that the world has come out of atma because now This thing has affected this.
(49:57) And when that is missing, what happens? Your agni chakra gets affected. You become irritable, angry. And when that continues, that affects the next chakra, water chakra, where you become so fearful. And a person who remains fearful for considerable time, he loses the ability to discern. So this thing see how this uh even
(50:44) Krishna talks about this thing in second chapter of Gita how desire leads to one thing then to anger and to dis losing of discrimination and man loses his humanity. So this is explained through this chakra uh through in hurtfulness. Now it is not just a negative thing. It can be positive also. But the punch buddhas are all positive and negative.
(51:17) Dwandas will go on where you feel so disturbed. You can also feel peace. Where you feel so angry or irritable. You can also feel love. Where you feel so fearful. You feel also have some lot of courage within you. where there is confusion you can have absolute clarity of mind. So these dandwas will play out as long as we are in the heart region and then as we go higher starting with this chakra and going all the way beyond sahastra dal kaml >> but we can do that in this human life itself >> definitely within the short period of your lifetime. So for example just the
(52:00) heart chakra how much time does it take to clean it up stabilize it >> depends on how much garbage you have collected [laughter] >> so there is no guarantee how much time >> on the average person that you end up meeting >> generally 3 months >> that's it >> if you do what I suggest you to do you'll be out of this first chakra with less than 3 months >> what's the game in the next chakra then >> next chakra is atma chakra But you will continue meditating always on the heart chakra but the journey will continue one
(52:34) higher and higher. >> I assumed after the heart chakra it goes upward here. >> Yeah. Traditionally >> okay >> but um there's heart chakra here upper chakra agni chakra jel chakra ka chakra then aka chakra and there are many chakras sarasuti point there's a passion point. Okay. >> Hanuman point. >> But from that starting chakra which is what? Heart chakra.
(53:03) >> Heart rhyth to the Hanuman chakra. >> No further beyond. It goes all the way to the back beyond sahastra dal kamal. >> So to take it beyond and if someone is dedicated as a student and is ready to listen you know completely how long is that journey? Usually >> it's maybe 7 months. >> That's it. So what happens with nature of life at the end of >> same life [laughter] >> you'll be living same externally it will be same but internally it will be world of difference it's like oh angels walking on earth >> you'll also open up faculties right
(53:45) >> everything >> everything becomes so natural within you see there is no exaggeration there is No unnaturalenness, there is no complexities. >> It'll become simple and pure. >> And then what? We live out our human life. >> No, that is human. Then become divine in nature. See, we have a journey from mere animalistic life to human life.
(54:19) >> See many people live but you can feel army right to become humane is another matter altogether and from there divine >> there's another journey that begins >> the same journey will take you there >> but after those seven months over then what happens in terms of the technique >> same method >> just keeps it going >> same >> okay but you just live out your life more Still >> still balanced life. Yeah.
(54:55) >> Can you get married and all that? >> Of course. >> I told you I have two boys. [laughter] >> I have four grandchildren. In fact, the world becomes your family. >> Inasa says to abundant heartfulness says embress. Um you know for the first time in maybe 11 years since work began and uh situations just guided me I feel unguided for the first time like just I feel lost not in front of you I'm talking about my own life just for whatever reason just starting to feel
(55:39) lost in life >> and uh I've asked the divine to help but I constantly feel like I'm alone in this big ocean now suddenly And I I don't think I'm the only person my age who's feeling this way because I see a similar thing happening with a lot of my friends, spiritual, non-spiritual. I just wonder if it's some aspect of the early 30s, which is why I began with this question about what were you doing at my age and were you also feeling >> it's a good thing that has happened.
(56:09) Now it's up to you how to make use of this moment. >> Yeah. >> And decide your next level of trajectory. You think it happens to a lot of people in their early to mid-30s? >> It happens to everyone. Some people can express, most cannot. Most will not even feel it. They will say >> they'll just carry on with life.
(56:31) >> I think it's important to question things also. >> Correct. It is. And he had to not only question but deeply feel the difference between your frustration that inner frustration and the calm that you get out of something that you do the lovingly and only solution that I I can offer you is meditation meditation.
(56:58) Meditation there is no other way. >> Yeah. >> There's no see you you do mantra I'll be very frank frank with you and ask ask you a question. When you are reciting mantra, where is your mind? >> Sometimes running, sometimes in the mantra. >> In the mantra, but when it is in the mantra, you're reciting. No, you're busy. >> Yeah. Holding on to the mantra.
(57:31) >> Where will it take you? You're holding on to something. Mantra is to train your mind to stay on one object. You have passed that age. >> Isn't now we need to palt into >> go higher. >> You don't need a crutch. You don't need a cane to walk. >> You're specifically telling me, right? >> Okay.
(58:02) But there are other people in their early 30s who may need a mantra at this point. If they think they need it, let them have it. Everyone sooner or later depending on their uh choices will have to end up meditation hook or crook. If not in this life, some next future lives. See, I tell you one fundamental thing. You see those people who have read Gita, how many follow Gita? Very few.
(58:38) I suppose those who understand, they would like to follow. Out of those who follow it, how many actually put it in a lifestyle? I cite you one ex sloka from it. Chapter 10. audience who are listening they can refer to chapter 10 and sloka number 20 >> also the 18th chapter and 61st verse in these two slokas Krishna tells Arjuna I dwell in every heart that's all where else would you try to look for him now would you find him in temples or gurudaras These places can facilitate somehow to
(59:24) go inward but inward journey can begin wherever you are and when he says that I'm in your heart also why are you searching for him outside >> when your direction is wrong when will you reach your destination? Hindus must try to understand this with guts with courage and clarity >> that the journey is supposed to be inward >> inward that's why we have given the names in Vedas and opishads that he is antaryamin means one who dwells within
(1:00:10) I'm coming up with the book on this subject this will be released on 28th September Okay, >> I'll send you a copy. I'll I'll request your audience to also have a small research. It's not a big uh academic uh search, but Google it and find out how many temples are there during Vic and times. >> None. >> None. There were none.
(1:00:50) And what was the reason? It >> was more focused on process not only that the sages then were able to perceive divinity in everything. They looked at the sky, their head bow down before they felt divinity there. They looked at mountains and rivers and trees. They felt divinity. So there was no need to create something different to feel the presence.
(1:01:26) Now we have we standing in front of a morti and still don't feel you know most people they can't experience that. They come they go thirsty and come out thirsty. Only thing they have is a soless that yes I have done my duty. that you are cheating yourself with these mere beliefs because belief has never taken anyone anywhere.
(1:01:55) I believe and so you're happy with your beliefs. What is your next step? >> Practical >> that is missing. See, >> so all in all it's important to meditate in order to move to the higher. There is no other way. >> Okay, >> I give you another sloka from Krishna. I think is also in second chapter >> and that's one of my most favorite sloka.
(1:02:30) Krishna asked instead of answering anything he poses questions after questions in that slo he asked Arjun how can you be happy unless there is harmony. How can you have harmony without contemplative mind? How can you have contemplative mind without focused mind? And how can you have focused mind without meditation? And then he ends the sloka withantuk as sukasa.
(1:03:20) So now you can join the dots. The philosophy, the way everything are there but you need the person who can walk on that path. See we read and feel happy. Next step doesn't come up. >> What's been the story of the last 37 years of your life? And and was age 33 a turning point? This is an internet conversation that's happening a lot nowadays where they say that age 33 is I believe one entire cycle of Jupiter if I'm not mistaken >> but they say that age 33 shifts a lot of
(1:04:04) things for any human being. Did you also feel that? >> My biggest shift was in the year 1982 when I was 26. H >> you met someone? >> My guru only I had met him earlier also but the biggest shift was then >> and what happened since then? >> Oh the inner transformation was quantum leap. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Good.
(1:04:37) And then again when I was 54 or 55. Yeah. that that's when I met very very spiritual person in my life and that changed a lot of things and then sometime in 201 10 11 when I was declared as the successor to our previous president my guru >> g >> but something started changing inside few years before that. See >> meditation went to a higher level.
(1:05:22) >> Uhhuh. Not meditation went to higher level. My experiences changed altogether. Meditation was the same. You close your eyes and meditate on the heart. It's the same thing, same process. Gone. >> But again, will of the divine. >> Yes. >> It allowed the flower to bloom. Who was the spiritual person you met? >> A lady.
(1:05:50) She was my mother few times in the past. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And she guided you on something. >> She guided me to stay focused on the path. >> Okay. >> Because there were moments then in my life I would have uh dropped spirituality altogether. >> Why? >> Did not satisfy somehow the lifestyle of people. who are supposed to be so enlightened and when you follow them and you get disappointed.
(1:06:23) >> You understand? >> When you keep someone in so much of higher esteem and they somehow don't match up to that higher lifestyle. So that what is the point of spiritual life? >> He said don't look at others, look at yourself. M >> do not compare things like that and communication from above that guidance was always there for Babuji.
(1:06:51) Even when you were a child, >> childhood experiences were when I was in the fifth standard, I felt I can still recollect I was in the armchair and gone for few hours that's all but at that time it didn't feel uh any extraordinary thing. I I thought I went to sleep but when I recollect that moment it was not that it was not asleep but something very different >> something else was transitioning to you >> and what you said 2010 2011 you were announced as the successor
(1:07:37) >> in 2011 I was announced but I started feeling the waves now when I I collect all those things. Uh inner purity was extraordinary. >> You heard this uh couplet from one of the great Sufis. So from inside I felt Total emptiness yet limitless. >> Was it difficult
(1:08:25) becoming the leader of this path? >> No. >> Smooth. >> Nature then started helping. >> Spirituality is very easy. Other things are difficult. >> Dealing with human society. Divorces nowadays, family conflicts. These are the challenging periods >> as in of students you're saying of devotees lives. >> Devotees life. Yes.
(1:08:58) >> You have to feel the pain that they going through. Why? >> They feel sad. They feel sad seeing people who meditate. How why should they be? Don't they develop enough understanding, enough faith? >> I guess on the spiritual path as you are advancing your karmmas are meant to get cleaned up.
(1:09:23) So advancement also means positive suffering. >> More suffering will be there. But you have to understand that more will come. I should not fight and accept them. >> Accept >> accept. >> Keep going. Don't leave the path. >> Correct. >> Right. I used to think that you know they say this about mantras sadna that on the path of mantras sadna things become little violent like your life is violently shaken up for the same sake of karmic cleanse >> and I used to assume that in paths of meditation where dhan is like much more at the forefront it's a gentler path but
(1:09:55) I've come to realize that it's all the same >> if you meditate on the problems >> then it's a tougher path >> it's a tough use the path to solve the problem >> not to highlight the problem. >> It's like uh you know there are many movies you must have seen western movies especially where they use this term premeditated murder.
(1:10:25) >> So when the court decides premeditated murder versus accidental murder. So person who has done committed pre-meditated murder he plants properly meditates properly on the project. Likewise the side effect of meditation is this. When they get into a problem they somehow highlight on it and meditate more and more over it.
(1:10:56) That becomes worse. >> Why does it become worse? because you're brooding over it. Suppose your wife tells you something and you remember it during meditation, you're highlighting it now. See >> inside yourself, you're sewing that seed somewhere that's emotional uh baggage. >> Baggage, correct? >> Okay. >> Instead of trying to find why she said what she said, where did I go wrong, you're trying to find a fault in another person.
(1:11:31) So distance will keep increasing. Then see >> you think it's wise to kind of segregate your own consciousness into the one that belongs to human society and the one that belongs to yourself and your spiritual journey. And every time you're meditating, you just focus on the latter. >> That's a wiser move. Yes. >> Right.
(1:11:49) And as you move forward, you let human society stories play out. >> That's why they say mind your business. [laughter] >> Just stay in your lane. >> Stay focused. M and you know the painful truth I think grown-ups need to understand is that you're actually alone at the end of the day. It's just you and your consciousness. >> That's it. That's it.
(1:12:10) >> Even even if people around you are meditating and are pious, >> you're still alone. You're still alone. >> Yeah. Journey is going to be lonely. It's meant to be lonely. >> Yeah. >> Even when you are standing in front of Krishna, you are yourself. >> Yeah. Bow and arrows in your hands. choose the direction.
(1:12:30) >> Yeah. Which is perhaps why it's very important to learn to concentrate. That's why concentration I think is a skill that is underrated almost. >> You cannot learn to concentrate. >> Then >> concentration is is a byproduct >> of meditation. Suppose you try to concentrate on an object. Now when you talk of God, how will you concentrate on God? Something you have never seen.
(1:13:06) So concentration can reveal the material objects, >> not the ultimate. >> Got it. >> There are points in these conversations sometimes where I just feel like it's about enough for this conversation. I've started to feel that. I've been feeling it for like 10 15 minutes and I was battling it.
(1:13:25) I was trying to extract more but sometimes the space also dictates the conversation. Is there anything else you want to add to this? >> Well, I like people to experience it and then decide it for themselves. Yeah. >> Choice is yours. >> Yeah. I think uh this is good enough dense theoretical wisdom for today. But real wisdom will happen when you experience >> when you experience proof.
(1:13:49) That's gan versus vigan, right? >> Perfect. >> So chase vigan and not just gan. This is a good compass. That's about it. >> Lies very nicely summarized. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Di. Appreciate your presence. Just felt like I almost owed you something since the last conversation. So, uh I'm here like fulfilling that inner task that I've given myself.
(1:14:14) [laughter] Thank you, Raj. Appreciate it. Thank you. Heat. [music] [music] Heat.
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Title: SECRETS OF CHAKRAS WITH DAAJI - Karma, Inner Journey & Spiritual Growth | TRS
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In this 551st (overall 1056th) episode of The Ranveer Show, We sits down with Kamlesh Patel (Daaji), Padma Bhushan awardee and guide of the Heartfulness way of meditation, for a deep and thought-provoking conversation about meditation, consciousness, chakras, karma and life beyond this realm.
Daaji shares insights from decades of spiritual practice, from starting meditation as a college student to leading the Heartfulness movement. He explains how meditation can lift the burdens we carry and help us hear the voice of our own heart.
They also explore free will and destiny, why struggle is necessary for growth, the inner journey through the chakras, and why the search for the divine must turn inward. Along the way, he shares unforgettable experiences from his own spiritual journey.
If you are interested in meditation, spirituality, consciousness, chakras, karma, kundalini, life after death, the Bhagavad Gita and inner peace, this episode is for you.
00:00 – Daaji On TRS
03:59 – Experiencing Heartfulness Meditation
05:58 – What Is Pranahuti?
06:49 – The Hidden Burden of Past Lives
07:46 – What Daaji Was Doing at 33
11:07 – Is Destiny Fixed?
11:49 – Why Falling Teaches More Than Success
15:08 – The Nonsense Humans Waste Life On
17:04 – How to Hear the Voice of Your Heart
19:05 – The Occult Side of Heartfulness
23:49 – What It Feels Like to Transmit Energy
28:54 – How to Escape the Cycle of Birth and Death
29:50 – What Lies in the Next Dimension?
34:34 – Is One Lifetime Enough for Moksha?
35:16 – The Truth About Kundalini Awakening
38:31 – Is Even God Evolving?
41:39 – The Deities Behind Each Chakra
45:12 – The Five Chakras of the Heart
47:12 – How Desire Leads to Anger and Fear
51:55 – How Long Does the Inner Journey Take?
55:18 – Feeling Lost in Your Early 30s
57:02 – Mantra vs Meditation
58:26 – Krishna Says I Dwell in Every Heart
1:03:43 – Daaji's Biggest Turning Points
1:09:15 – Why the Path Brings More Suffering
1:11:28 – Why the Spiritual Journey Is Lonely
1:13:27 – Daaji's Final Message
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Transcript:
(00:01) How do we escape this cycle of birth and death and just leave this realm? >> What is so wrong with your life? >> I think if one is continuously born in this realm, then you'll be subject to some of the other kind of difficulty. What guarantees you that it will not be in another dimension is nothing very special.
(00:33) >> What are some things you can list out as nonsense that human beings engage with? Well, first and foremost is >> say you gain so-called enlightenment here. You're promoted to that next dimension. >> Definitely. >> So what happens to the nature of life at the end externally it will be same but internally it'll be world of difference.
(00:57) It's [music] like angels walking on the earth. You think it's wise to [music] kind of segregate your own consciousness into the one that belongs to human society and the one that belongs to yourself and your spiritual journey? >> Yes. >> And as you move forward, it's just you and your consciousness. >> That's it.
(01:16) That's why they say mind your business. [laughter] >> India's a land of mystics and I've had the phenomenal fortune of meeting of these mystics through the show. This is our second episode with Daji. We actually went to Hyderabad, went to his spiritual center called Kha, explored it a bit and then sat with this Padma Bhan awardee.
(01:42) That's the highest level civilian honor in India. He's contributed immensely to the Indian spiritual movement. In fact, we began this episode with what he calls a heartfulness meditation, which is his own type of meditation. Now, to perform the heartfulness meditation, you need to be in the presence of a guru. This entire conversation was very rich, very dense, esoteric on some level, very thoughtprovoking.
(02:07) We spoke about reality beyond Nirvana or Mo. We spoke about how to progress through your current human reality in great detail. You'll enjoy this episode if you're a seeker like myself. You'll definitely enjoy this episode if you followed Daji over the years. But this was just a very dense spiritual conversation after a while. Keep following TRS. Lots more like this.
(02:27) But for now, enjoy this special conversation with Daji on the Reanbir Show. [music] [music] Dhan
(03:15) ultimate wisdom flowing through. >> Uh I'm hoping that that's what happens in today's conversation also. I know it'll happen in today's conversation. Um I revisited our first conversation that happened 6 years ago. >> It was a lot >> 6 and a half years actually. Uh I was a very different person.
(03:38) Uh I believe you were pretty much the same. Uh but I'm a little more equipped to speak to you now. I think and we in Hyderabad. I promised you I'll be here. >> So >> that's so nice of you. >> No, I had to do this uh piece with you. There's something that needs to get out and appear in front of the world through today's conversation.
(03:58) I'm not sure what it is. >> Thank you. >> Where do you suggest we begin? >> Well, we started already. I wanted you to experience this meditation. How meditation differs from traditional word tan >> and how we get transported to higher orbits of consciousness each time you meditate. >> Yeah. And you have experienced that. How did you feel? >> Definitely went somewhere else.
(04:27) I think the consciousness traveled somewhere else. Uh I felt very blank and I forgot that we're shooting a podcast. Like uh your voice also almost was um just new to me. I was like, "Oh, why is there a voice?" And then I came back. >> So I definitely went somewhere else. But I'm feeling great after this. >> Very lovely.
(04:49) Very lovely. And that was hardly 15 minutes of meditation. You see, and I often tell the world that he need not have faith in anything. Like when you experiment with for example sodium plus chloride, >> you bring them together. Sodium is a notorious element they call in periodic table. It's explosive. M >> chlorine is poisonous but bring them together they become life sustaining salt >> sodium chloride.
(05:28) Now such is got the thing when we combine consciousness with pranuti >> pranut transmission >> transmission. Yeah. I tell the world that you know it is this pranuti that you have to experience. You need not believe what it can do to you. We experience the impact of that flow with your consciousness with your awareness and take it from there based on the results you feel your perception see how it has changed.
(06:05) Now the next question that would arise what is this pranai? said one I told you that one that transports our available present consciousness to the next higher level of consciousness. Right? It also does something remarkable. I also mentioned to you that when balloon is held up on a thread and on a stone as you remove this burden it can go higher and higher like that.
(06:36) Pranavahi also tends to remove many things we have collected as the burden of guilt perhaps, emotions, impressions from our past or conditioning that weighs down on you. >> Even stuff from the past life constitutes the weight of the stone. >> Of course, it's perhaps worse than that. >> Wow.
(07:00) As in worse than the present life's weight. It can be but you remain unconscious of it because thankfully nature prevents that memory of distant past. >> Should that memory be unlocked and should we be able to see it? >> I think it will always be to your disadvantage >> because many souls they travel together the kmas has to be settled against each other.
(07:32) wife was a mother perhaps once upon a time. >> How would you tackle that relationship? >> It's the best to stay in the dark about >> existence is bliss. >> How was your life when you were 33 which is my age? >> Well, I was running a pharmacy business in New York City. [laughter] >> Wow. And uh I was also practicing meditation then cuz I had started this meditation when I was 18 years of age during my college time.
(08:10) I had already then two boys in life and happily married very peaceful life. The reason I'm asking you this is as I was going around the heartfulness foundation today >> I was thinking that hey this is exactly kind of what I want to do in life you know even I wish to create this uh utopian piece of land where people can evolve together and work at the same time.
(08:40) >> Correct. >> What I really enjoyed seeing was the go academy which is also here. >> You saw it already? >> Yeah. I mean not not from the inside but >> we got to see from inside. Nothing like it ins of the world. >> Yeah. For those people who are not familiar with it, it's where India's back and champions have come out of.
(08:58) >> Yes. >> Uh and I'm sure there's a lot more that I've not seen here as well. But um it's kind of like one hand in the material world, one hand in the spiritual world. >> Exactly. I think you have hit the essence of this heartfulness way. >> Yeah. I mean, how old are you now, Daji? >> 70. >> Okay.
(09:20) So, roughly how much? slightly double your age. >> 37 years >> elder to you. >> Wow. So in 37 years what happened for you to establish this today? >> It's not incrementals. Many things can happen in the quantum leap. >> You see sometimes we climb one foot and then you expect that next time it will be one foot plus. Sometime it can be negative also but you begin you can fall down also sometimes instead of 1 ft of increment you can have maybe 100 ft of jump >> so life plays games with us I think when >> nicely so it's never to your disadvantage never ever
(10:06) it may seem like [clears throat] you are going backward at some time in life but there is no backwardness nothing that pulls you back from this evolutionary trajectory unless you choose it yourself. >> What do you mean unless you choose it yourself? Suppose I tell you I'll show you the way instead of you walking on this road.
(10:30) Why don't you walk? I mean you why don't you come? I'll give you a ride. I'm driving to the same place. It's your choice. Someone might come at say and they come let me take you to your destination and ends up taking you to some different place. M >> child going to a school decided mommy I'm going to school goes with the friends to a club >> these are the choices we make and some are evolutionary in nature and some are not so evolutionary in nature so we have that freedom you know many people they ask me this question
(11:11) what is destiny to you is it fixed or do I have some freedom to choose. So it's a mixture of all these things because whatsoever we have done in our past consequences will be there. That doesn't mean that I'm slave to my past. I can recreate something that I created in my past I can create it now for my better future.
(11:44) See, so we have the primary thing is we have freedom to choose. Yeah. >> Um you know you said that sometimes it may seem like you're going backwards but everything happens for our evolution. >> Uh I think you only think you're going backwards because of societal conditioning. >> Correct. >> Maybe the world will perceive you as going backwards and tell you but you internally might just be moving forward.
(12:06) You have learned a big lesson actually that no success can teach you when you really really go astray for some time >> and you rise back again. That has taught you a lesson which you write in your diary for your grandchildren that you see I made this boo. I fell and I rose. You will not write such words of glory when you rise yourself in a normal way >> because there is nothing fascinating about it.
(12:45) >> Moreover, when [clears throat] we make mistakes for it hurts us. We pay the price also. But if we keep ruminating on those things, you have a choice again. See either you ruminate or learn from the results of those things and evolve out of it. So learning lessons from your own falls, [snorts] your own success and failures.
(13:16) I think it life is all about that. If you don't learn anything from the mistakes or the miseries or the pain we go through which is translated as fall or going backward but when taken it as evolutionary that I have learned something from this then it becomes a stepping stone for higher growth. >> So did you experience any falls? many times >> and you were able to bounce back.
(13:46) >> Bounce back. Correct. >> But on your path of bouncing back, did you also feel lost? >> No. Cuz I had the confidence that since I started this meditation very early around 18 years of age, I was able to see many a times I see myself making mistake before even committing to it. Right. So that is one great advantage.
(14:15) So I would approach that process very hes with lot of hesitation. Sometime I would succumb to it and pay the price for it. >> As you knew you're going to make a mistake but you' still do it. >> Many of us end up doing that. It is quite human >> and many such mistakes knowingly done then deters you. Then you begin to cooperate with nature.
(14:45) Nature means the voice of your own heart. When heart says >> so that is a turning point in your life where you you are able to listen to your heart with confidence and you have enough guts to say okay no more nonsense. M >> what are some things you can list out as nonsense that human beings engage with? >> Well, first and foremost is they don't understand their very own potential.
(15:22) We all have great potential. Selfishness is dominating. Interests doesn't last long for any of any hobby also. People say I have a hobby in music. They think hobby in music is only listening. Have you picked up any instrument? Some people say I love sports. But what sports have you it's watching basketball uh you know playing out in US or some fool playing out his uh golf and millions watching them play or
(16:08) two dozen people playing cricket and they say oh I'm a sports fan you are a view you are not a sportsman so we have to differentiate so many things and understand The right understanding is absolutely missing. >> Are you saying that you have a limited amount of time in this particular birth and therefore it must be utilized for something constructive >> wisely? Yes.
(16:37) >> That is that aspect of free will. >> Yes. Again that we have to make a choice. >> See God does not interfere with our choices. M >> someone wants to murder someone, God is not going to chop off your hand, he has given you that ultimate freedom. Rather, it's up to us how we make use of it. >> How do you connect with your own conscience in order to let nature guide you more easily other than meditation? [laughter] Is there any other path? Yes, there is no other path.
(17:20) Actually, your heart understands it very naturally >> that it's only in the stillness where you'll be able to hear the voice of your conscience. >> Even while making noise, you'll know. >> You're in a party. You're dancing away with your friends. Many people end up doing wrong things there knowingly that is wrong. Right? How did that voice came about even in that noisy atmosphere >> yet we end up doing because our desire is so strong perhaps lust is also so strong.
(18:00) So the circumstance is overdrives over you. So that's why the voice of the heart though it's so subtle and so gentle it speaks loudly even when there is external noise. So we cannot say that you know it's only that meditators they know the voice of the conscience. Everyone knows even a small child 2 years of age drinking bottle you know milk suddenly milk drops bottle child knows it has fallen something has
(18:44) gone wrong >> looks at mother see the conscience is very well uh programmed with our genes with our DNA Okay, it's not foreign to us. Of course, ignoring is another matter. >> When we were touring the Heartfulness Foundation, uh the one word that kept popping up in my head again and again is the occult. I don't know why not I'm not talking about anything magical etc etc.
(19:22) But I do feel there's a lot of things in this geography that I wasn't able to put into words because this level of peace is not normal. [laughter] So other than the trees, other than the way it's landscaped, I am sure there are some processes that are happening here uh which are creating this peaceful vibe in the air. >> So true. So true.
(19:44) >> What is this occult uh aspect of the Heartfulness Foundation? It's the atmosphere, environment we create. You see, have you visited some clubs, dances and blah blah blah all have you visited some beautiful guru and temples? >> Yes. >> You see the atmosphere, it's up to us the kind of atmosphere we end up creating.
(20:11) You see, have you met a couple who is in fight and you enter the room The same friends who are so lovely, so loving towards each other and after the fight you look at them, they look so ugly. >> Change the atmosphere totally. So our actions and more than our actions, our thoughts, our intentions, our goals in life, they play out very loudly in the external environment we walk around.
(20:49) Now I give you a small example. Human being can be conditioned that this is a meditation place and so you have to behave it that way. But what about plants? You see I have experimented accidentally. We had tomato plants and uh we grafted some brindel plants and kept them around meditation hall and we kept some of them also same conditions in other at other locations outside the ashram.
(21:24) You can see the striking difference in the growth. M >> double triple the growth around meditation hall. So this is perceptible, this is pulpable, this is visible. Um in fact plants and trees have no resistance when it comes to spiritual atmosphere. They are able to maintain whatsoever you put it as divine charge.
(21:54) They're able to retain it. Human beings they're not able to maintain that because of their constant disturbance within themselves keep spoiling that inner state. >> That's why the reputations are necessary for human. >> Is there research that takes place here? >> Yes. Yes. We have not only here we are we are present in 160 countries.
(22:20) >> Okay. Researches are happening [clears throat] at multiple locations across the globe actually in especially in hospitals and some research centers some universities >> all of it is related to meditation. >> Meditation various meditation that we offer. How ordinary meditation differs from meditation done with pranuti? See in 2003 I had an opportunity of addressing students at Draxel in Philadelphia.
(22:54) There was in initial batch of 20 students and I was given 3 months to educate them on meditation. So we used to have session only on weekends Saturdays or 1 hour or so. I divided those guys into few groups like you meditate as per your liking for one week. Ask your father or mother add up their system. >> You do the research and find your own another method and you guys exchange these methods with each other and write your experiences.
(23:31) Then last two weeks I told them look you meditate now with heartfulness way of meditation. method was given but no transmission was given. >> And the final week meditation with transmission. >> When one is giving transmission, what does one feel when you're giving it? >> You feel as if you're also meditating.
(23:59) >> Okay. >> So there was a big difference. They say this is the best thing that has happened to them. When you meditate with pranati, it becomes easier for them and the results are so convincing that yes, this is it. There's nothing better than this. We had done study also here at as Delhi under the guidance of Dr. Sinas. It's a director.
(24:29) He used to be director and we compiled lot of systems. I don't like to name names all prevalent big time uh Indian systems and nothing comes closer to this way of meditation done with pranuti >> but are are you the only person capable of giving transmission [clears throat] >> we have trained almost 18,000 people who can also transmit So this is a continuous program and we don't charge you know when we don't charge at all anything for uh training uh newcomers into the system when they
(25:18) say oh I would like to meditate and be part of this no charges no membership fees no incremental programs and so you do this program so much that program so much that is out of question >> to become that trainer also or you [clears throat] don't you don't pay anything. It's simple uh like you experience something and you say oh I like to teach this to my friends >> so your simple willingness is required that yes and that abilities will be granted now only can also transmit something like that >> is it kind of like you become a channel
(26:00) to >> uh you hit the right word >> you transmit something from a higher power >> yes >> what is the higher power >> ultimate source. >> Okay. So even when you and your meditating right now, you were channelizing something. >> Correct. >> How do you feel while channelizing? >> I feel empty. >> Okay.
(26:20) That just your physical presence allows it to be for >> Yeah. I'm also in meditation. I feel that and sometimes I also feel uh what sort of work is required that will facilitate reand's meditation. Okay. >> What needs to be removed from particular chakra for example, it will come to my knowledge and that burden will be removed not the details.
(26:48) >> Okay. >> Okay. Sometime [clears throat] some something has happened and that creates heaviness in your on particular chakra. My purpose is to remove the heaviness not to go in details and they will not surface also. M >> you can just see something blocked >> something blocked heavier in you and that needs to be removed >> and that blockage is usually because of life >> things things that happens to us especially emotional thing that happens because of our nearest and dearest ones >> like betrayal for example >> someone cheating on you
(27:29) >> people come like that oh I gave all my life to him and See how he misused me. >> I had beautiful business relationship with so and so. I invested all my money and it's gone. See >> divorce situations, people struggling with money. Day-to-day life is tough. So we build up all these uh stress within us. Stress sometimes people say it's bad but of course unless there is stress you what will you do without the stress >> pain is the gateway to evolution >> evolution
(28:14) >> so minimum stress why what I call you stress EU stress is required you know once I was invited to an university asking me to give a talk to some students master's program so the dean of the faculty was saying you All these children they are always stressed out before exams. Can your meditation reduce it? I say why would you want to reduce it? Let them have greater stress.
(28:44) If you remove the stress, they will not study well. >> You need that little bit of stress and pain. >> Some level is required >> to just keep you going. >> Yes. >> But uh how do we escape the cycle of birth and death and just leave this realm? Well, I have my own understanding of it. What is so wrong with your life? >> I think if one is continuously born in this realm, then you'll be subject to some of the other kind of difficulty.
(29:15) One guarantees you that that it will not be in another dimension. You see the you go to gym I suppose. >> Yeah. >> Unless there is resistance, how will you build muscles? M >> at each dimension I think it provides you enough of resistance in life for it to grow for it to evolve. Next dimension also definitely had different levels of resistances then the next then the next.
(29:50) >> Are you comfortable speaking about what the next dimension is? Yes. If you want you can >> I would love to >> if you understand this principle of invertendo. >> Invertendo. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Meaning [clears throat] what is at the lower level it's it is seen as a mirror image at the higher level. For example, heart chakra is there chakra.
(30:19) It's divided into lower and higher. Okay. have that in your mind. Okay. Next, there are many other chakras. But when you go to another dimension and you enter Brahman or cosmic chakra starts there and imagine that as a circle just I want you to imagine it and divide it into upper and lower. Now what was upper at the heart becomes lower here.
(30:51) >> Yeah. So this experiences will keep changing. Now that's one aspect of it. Second aspect is the energy movement. What was moving here in a clockwise manner it will become anticlockwise there that is it own consequences there and then yet another higher level it will again be reverses. experiences wise when I had the understanding communicating with my masters there are no bodies >> you're talking about the next world >> next world we call brighter world >> brighter world >> yeah there yeah >> uh kind of can be understood as heaven
(31:34) or the astral world or >> I like to call it brighter >> okay >> uh there are only vibrations there no physical bodies you You will have your own uh system but it's all vibratory in nature. You will have your own levels of bliss. You'll your own level of understanding also. You'll also learn from each other.
(32:01) How do I oscillate >> properly? For example, when we sit here, we are facing each other, right? You had a choice of pulling your legs and stretching and touching my feet. your legs touching my feet and kick me sometimes now and then that's one way of disposition there also automatically you adjust with your oscillations your vibrations when a higher being is there with certain level of frequency you will try to fine-tune with that being it cannot remain in
(32:48) vibrating irregularly or with intensity sometime and less intensity next time. There is some sort of a samata there. See harmony there. Whosoever you meet, you become harmonious with the higher being. You try to match their frequency. H >> you cannot tolerate your happiness in us at that time. >> Can you contrast it with this realm that we are in right now >> with the gift of this physical body? I would not say it's a curse.
(33:27) Incarnation has its own benefits like we have five senses. They don't have those things. Five senses have their advantages and disadvantages. We begin to like things. We begin to dislike things. We are attracted. We are repulsed. So they all have price to pay for those things. >> This thing is absent there. >> What is absent? This five uh dual this dual we call.
(34:07) >> Okay. likes, dislikes, >> polarity, dwanda they call in Sanskrit, it's absent there. >> So say you gain so-called enlightenment here. You you're promoted to that next dimension. >> Definitely you begin from where you left. >> Okay. And if you don't reach enlightenment in this birth, then you're born again in this realm and you have to continue.
(34:30) >> It's like your fifth grade. If you fail in fifth grade, you have to repeat. >> But is one lifetime enough? Like I'm 33 now. I probably have 40 50 years of life left. Is that enough for me to get promoted to the next dimension? >> That very desire will prevent you from reaching out. >> It happens through our evolution that even is the true liberation or true freedom is when you have abandoned the idea of very freedom itself.
(35:05) Got it. >> See, and it has to arrive in a very natural way. >> I cannot force it to happen. >> That arrive in a natural way is also for lack of better words. I'm sorry I'm encapsulating so many thoughts. But is it like comfortable kundalini jagan? >> It's a joke actually. Kundalini is is to my guru's views and I from my experiences I tell you it's nothing very special it can destroy a person
(35:49) >> it's like an atom bomb going off inside you >> is atom bomb can [clears throat] of course it's something it's a good comparison >> uh when someone asked my guru that you know he said it just unlocks higher faculties in your human body. >> Not really. Person who is seeking powers is not looking for higher faculties.
(36:33) >> So what does an awakened kundalini leave you with? >> There's no awakened kini. It cannot be also awakened just like that. There will be only aberrations. >> You will feel vibrations and there will be some sort of side effects arising out of it. Many people who have tried this kulini jagril processes through other systems they come to me and the way I gave you sitting meditation session I give them also meditation session but when such people I encounter with such people what I see is very disturbed system
(37:18) entire system is halfard there's so much of uh violence within their system. M >> you know their body also will vibrate during meditation they'll do like this like this and I asked them why what what have you done and almost all of them they say we have practiced but the side Similar thing happens with pranayam.
(38:01) All problems are great. But when you exaggerate it, when you overdo it and you say my kumbak is now reaching 3 and 1/2 minutes or 2 minutes or 6 minutes that kumbak will again disturb the entire energy channels. So One needs a guide. >> That's what I think you're loosely trying to say. >> You know, you spoke about that higher dimension.
(38:34) >> G. >> What is the purpose of living there? Because I assume there's no life and death. There's just existence. >> Correct. >> And then there's a higher dimension after that as well. >> After that also. So it's there is a continuity until one plunges into the source. That happens only when there is what we call maha prraa.
(38:58) When everything dissolves into that singularity >> for everyone, >> everyone will get there. >> That's ultimate >> ultimate not escape merger >> merger. >> Now what happens there? You see you may ask a fundamental question. If we all return back, what was the purpose of creation? >> Yeah.
(39:24) Why do we have to go through all this? >> Yeah. >> One example will, I think, help you understand it. Let's say you have half a dozen boys, your children, >> and to each you give $2 million each. After 10 years they come back to you, dad see what I have done. Everyone will have their stories. You will feel sorry for the person who did not make much and lost.
(40:01) >> Your love will not reduce. You will you'll have same affection the way you had the affection of pride in another son >> who jumped from 2 million to perhaps two billion. Right now the idea of achievements there the potency with which we were ejected from the source let us say it was X potency and at multiple dimensional travels you have evolved now with let us say 500x >> someone returns with 50x someone returns with X divided by 10,000 they all merge is there at the moment of
(40:50) mahapra and when the next cycle starts it starts with your 10,000x or x divided by 5,000 so it's a continuous evolution also of the source >> even god is evolving >> god is also evolving >> into what but what does that go to >> I don't know why I wish I can tell you first of all I have to understand god to see his evolution even that is difficult >> you know even if it is possible that oh even if I describe God how would you justify that description I
(41:34) gave you is of God it's too beyond our >> reach beyond words >> um we went to the chakra garden >> although really see so many things. >> It was great. I was very fascinated by the statues of the deities because I'm currently uh you know a lot of mantra based uh sadha that's on in my life. So I saw durama statue I saw I think I saw Jesus Christ if I'm not mistaken >> on the second chakra.
(42:07) >> Yeah. Um what was the relation of all those deities with the chakras? >> Oh it's beautiful. [clears throat] See when we are passing through the second chakra our system is bit very practical in nature we skip first three chakras muladal swadistan and manipur >> we skip them >> what do you mean skip them like what is traveling our consciousness >> because they are common to us and the animal kingdom >> okay >> our starting point is chakra >> because human beings are evolved enough to have awakened heart chakra. So we
(42:53) begin our journey from there and if you find a right guru who can help you travel within the heart chakra, master it and then go to the next chakra that is atma chakra. >> When but so what do you mean by travel? Do you mean our own consciousness? on consciousness will move just as I mentioned to you that there is dimensional difference between this life and the next.
(43:19) There is a difference also within one chakra to another chakra. >> Okay. >> At one chakra there are higher and lower levels also. At higher you will feel something. At lower you will feel something. They are all different feelings. Are you saying that this is a spiritual journey where you have to travel through your own chakras in this life? >> That is the real pilgrimage.
(43:44) >> Got it. >> External pilgrimage is human uh con concept. >> It's a reflection of what's actually meant to be done inside your body. >> Much more than that actually because in nature there is nothing like Darika or Aayodhya or Makkah or Jerusalem. These are all human created. What nature has created all these chakras we have to undergo the experience of our consciousness how it unfolds when we move from one to another.
(44:22) M >> so when we come arrive at the second chakra when my consciousness is fully opening up at second chakra you'll feel extraordinary peace extraordinary calm you'll feel very compassionate loving all the qualities which are attributed to Lord Jesus you will experience it there >> so that's why Um we kept that statue of Lord Jesus there.
(44:55) Fifth chakra since you must have seen that dura. >> Yeah. >> It's a point of energy. Yeah. >> Also it's a point of maya plays out both. There are so many like that. So what I've gathered until now is that um what we are traditionally told is that there are seven chakras on the human body.
(45:21) You've also said that the first three chakras are common between yourself and the animal kingdom. >> Correct. >> Perhaps in your soul's journey, you've already traveled through those >> correct >> three chakras. And currently because in this human form, the main game is to be played in the heart region. >> Heart region. >> And this heart region is divided into more chakras.
(45:37) >> Five chakras. >> Five chakras. And each of them represents >> punch buddhas >> earth fire wind water >> correct >> space and for most people they have not even tapped into the first of the heart chakras >> 99.99999 not >> but say if someone is doing another kind of spiritual practice like for for example me if I'm doing like my mantra sad am I still tapping into that heart chakra you're >> you keep tapping it but there will not be movement.
(46:13) >> It won't be opened and unknown. >> When do you know the movement? Let us see. You are traveling by train and then train and you see the platform after two days the same platform. >> That means you are stuck. >> Easiest way to find it. Have you changed from within? Had someone told you you're different than they your expressions are different very subtle your wife your friends or your mother or father will tell you this is some you are different today you'll feel internally different your inner environment will change with each
(47:01) station >> and therefore your outer environment also changes >> will change your frequency your energy everything will change M >> the aura you will carry with you will change >> and karma blocks these chakras >> that's a fundamental thing what we call karma in heartfulness we call them with samscars >> or conditioning whatsoever you do or don't do >> uh creates an impression in you see for example there is a chakra just below the heart chakra and that gets triggered with every likes and dislikes
(47:47) >> and it's very difficult for a human being to remain without any likes or dislikes. That's why Krishna puts a big challenge arrive at sta balanced where there is neither likes nor dislikes. >> Now what are these likes and dislikes? There are only two types either sensual or material world related. These are worldly worries, sensual worries. You look at someone,
(48:32) oh, she is gorgeous. Maybe I should become friendly with her. That attraction that arouses sensual feelings within you. So there are only two types of likes and dislikes. We keep creating all the time. Now the impressions created by worldly worries are not as grosser or heavier compared to sensual ones. So they get deposited at a little lower level and you will be able to feel it as you practice this system.
(49:13) You'll be able to feel that even a single thought of some sensuality pops up in your head. You see the vibrations stirring up at that chakra. Now what happens when that chakra is spoiled affected rather not spoiled affected unfulfilled desired disturbance >> you'll become assant >> that affect your atma chakra >> atma that the world has come out of atma because now This thing has affected this.
(49:57) And when that is missing, what happens? Your agni chakra gets affected. You become irritable, angry. And when that continues, that affects the next chakra, water chakra, where you become so fearful. And a person who remains fearful for considerable time, he loses the ability to discern. So this thing see how this uh even
(50:44) Krishna talks about this thing in second chapter of Gita how desire leads to one thing then to anger and to dis losing of discrimination and man loses his humanity. So this is explained through this chakra uh through in hurtfulness. Now it is not just a negative thing. It can be positive also. But the punch buddhas are all positive and negative.
(51:17) Dwandas will go on where you feel so disturbed. You can also feel peace. Where you feel so angry or irritable. You can also feel love. Where you feel so fearful. You feel also have some lot of courage within you. where there is confusion you can have absolute clarity of mind. So these dandwas will play out as long as we are in the heart region and then as we go higher starting with this chakra and going all the way beyond sahastra dal kaml >> but we can do that in this human life itself >> definitely within the short period of your lifetime. So for example just the
(52:00) heart chakra how much time does it take to clean it up stabilize it >> depends on how much garbage you have collected [laughter] >> so there is no guarantee how much time >> on the average person that you end up meeting >> generally 3 months >> that's it >> if you do what I suggest you to do you'll be out of this first chakra with less than 3 months >> what's the game in the next chakra then >> next chakra is atma chakra But you will continue meditating always on the heart chakra but the journey will continue one
(52:34) higher and higher. >> I assumed after the heart chakra it goes upward here. >> Yeah. Traditionally >> okay >> but um there's heart chakra here upper chakra agni chakra jel chakra ka chakra then aka chakra and there are many chakras sarasuti point there's a passion point. Okay. >> Hanuman point. >> But from that starting chakra which is what? Heart chakra.
(53:03) >> Heart rhyth to the Hanuman chakra. >> No further beyond. It goes all the way to the back beyond sahastra dal kamal. >> So to take it beyond and if someone is dedicated as a student and is ready to listen you know completely how long is that journey? Usually >> it's maybe 7 months. >> That's it. So what happens with nature of life at the end of >> same life [laughter] >> you'll be living same externally it will be same but internally it will be world of difference it's like oh angels walking on earth >> you'll also open up faculties right
(53:45) >> everything >> everything becomes so natural within you see there is no exaggeration there is No unnaturalenness, there is no complexities. >> It'll become simple and pure. >> And then what? We live out our human life. >> No, that is human. Then become divine in nature. See, we have a journey from mere animalistic life to human life.
(54:19) >> See many people live but you can feel army right to become humane is another matter altogether and from there divine >> there's another journey that begins >> the same journey will take you there >> but after those seven months over then what happens in terms of the technique >> same method >> just keeps it going >> same >> okay but you just live out your life more Still >> still balanced life. Yeah.
(54:55) >> Can you get married and all that? >> Of course. >> I told you I have two boys. [laughter] >> I have four grandchildren. In fact, the world becomes your family. >> Inasa says to abundant heartfulness says embress. Um you know for the first time in maybe 11 years since work began and uh situations just guided me I feel unguided for the first time like just I feel lost not in front of you I'm talking about my own life just for whatever reason just starting to feel
(55:39) lost in life >> and uh I've asked the divine to help but I constantly feel like I'm alone in this big ocean now suddenly And I I don't think I'm the only person my age who's feeling this way because I see a similar thing happening with a lot of my friends, spiritual, non-spiritual. I just wonder if it's some aspect of the early 30s, which is why I began with this question about what were you doing at my age and were you also feeling >> it's a good thing that has happened.
(56:09) Now it's up to you how to make use of this moment. >> Yeah. >> And decide your next level of trajectory. You think it happens to a lot of people in their early to mid-30s? >> It happens to everyone. Some people can express, most cannot. Most will not even feel it. They will say >> they'll just carry on with life.
(56:31) >> I think it's important to question things also. >> Correct. It is. And he had to not only question but deeply feel the difference between your frustration that inner frustration and the calm that you get out of something that you do the lovingly and only solution that I I can offer you is meditation meditation.
(56:58) Meditation there is no other way. >> Yeah. >> There's no see you you do mantra I'll be very frank frank with you and ask ask you a question. When you are reciting mantra, where is your mind? >> Sometimes running, sometimes in the mantra. >> In the mantra, but when it is in the mantra, you're reciting. No, you're busy. >> Yeah. Holding on to the mantra.
(57:31) >> Where will it take you? You're holding on to something. Mantra is to train your mind to stay on one object. You have passed that age. >> Isn't now we need to palt into >> go higher. >> You don't need a crutch. You don't need a cane to walk. >> You're specifically telling me, right? >> Okay.
(58:02) But there are other people in their early 30s who may need a mantra at this point. If they think they need it, let them have it. Everyone sooner or later depending on their uh choices will have to end up meditation hook or crook. If not in this life, some next future lives. See, I tell you one fundamental thing. You see those people who have read Gita, how many follow Gita? Very few.
(58:38) I suppose those who understand, they would like to follow. Out of those who follow it, how many actually put it in a lifestyle? I cite you one ex sloka from it. Chapter 10. audience who are listening they can refer to chapter 10 and sloka number 20 >> also the 18th chapter and 61st verse in these two slokas Krishna tells Arjuna I dwell in every heart that's all where else would you try to look for him now would you find him in temples or gurudaras These places can facilitate somehow to
(59:24) go inward but inward journey can begin wherever you are and when he says that I'm in your heart also why are you searching for him outside >> when your direction is wrong when will you reach your destination? Hindus must try to understand this with guts with courage and clarity >> that the journey is supposed to be inward >> inward that's why we have given the names in Vedas and opishads that he is antaryamin means one who dwells within
(1:00:10) I'm coming up with the book on this subject this will be released on 28th September Okay, >> I'll send you a copy. I'll I'll request your audience to also have a small research. It's not a big uh academic uh search, but Google it and find out how many temples are there during Vic and times. >> None. >> None. There were none.
(1:00:50) And what was the reason? It >> was more focused on process not only that the sages then were able to perceive divinity in everything. They looked at the sky, their head bow down before they felt divinity there. They looked at mountains and rivers and trees. They felt divinity. So there was no need to create something different to feel the presence.
(1:01:26) Now we have we standing in front of a morti and still don't feel you know most people they can't experience that. They come they go thirsty and come out thirsty. Only thing they have is a soless that yes I have done my duty. that you are cheating yourself with these mere beliefs because belief has never taken anyone anywhere.
(1:01:55) I believe and so you're happy with your beliefs. What is your next step? >> Practical >> that is missing. See, >> so all in all it's important to meditate in order to move to the higher. There is no other way. >> Okay, >> I give you another sloka from Krishna. I think is also in second chapter >> and that's one of my most favorite sloka.
(1:02:30) Krishna asked instead of answering anything he poses questions after questions in that slo he asked Arjun how can you be happy unless there is harmony. How can you have harmony without contemplative mind? How can you have contemplative mind without focused mind? And how can you have focused mind without meditation? And then he ends the sloka withantuk as sukasa.
(1:03:20) So now you can join the dots. The philosophy, the way everything are there but you need the person who can walk on that path. See we read and feel happy. Next step doesn't come up. >> What's been the story of the last 37 years of your life? And and was age 33 a turning point? This is an internet conversation that's happening a lot nowadays where they say that age 33 is I believe one entire cycle of Jupiter if I'm not mistaken >> but they say that age 33 shifts a lot of
(1:04:04) things for any human being. Did you also feel that? >> My biggest shift was in the year 1982 when I was 26. H >> you met someone? >> My guru only I had met him earlier also but the biggest shift was then >> and what happened since then? >> Oh the inner transformation was quantum leap. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Good.
(1:04:37) And then again when I was 54 or 55. Yeah. that that's when I met very very spiritual person in my life and that changed a lot of things and then sometime in 201 10 11 when I was declared as the successor to our previous president my guru >> g >> but something started changing inside few years before that. See >> meditation went to a higher level.
(1:05:22) >> Uhhuh. Not meditation went to higher level. My experiences changed altogether. Meditation was the same. You close your eyes and meditate on the heart. It's the same thing, same process. Gone. >> But again, will of the divine. >> Yes. >> It allowed the flower to bloom. Who was the spiritual person you met? >> A lady.
(1:05:50) She was my mother few times in the past. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And she guided you on something. >> She guided me to stay focused on the path. >> Okay. >> Because there were moments then in my life I would have uh dropped spirituality altogether. >> Why? >> Did not satisfy somehow the lifestyle of people. who are supposed to be so enlightened and when you follow them and you get disappointed.
(1:06:23) >> You understand? >> When you keep someone in so much of higher esteem and they somehow don't match up to that higher lifestyle. So that what is the point of spiritual life? >> He said don't look at others, look at yourself. M >> do not compare things like that and communication from above that guidance was always there for Babuji.
(1:06:51) Even when you were a child, >> childhood experiences were when I was in the fifth standard, I felt I can still recollect I was in the armchair and gone for few hours that's all but at that time it didn't feel uh any extraordinary thing. I I thought I went to sleep but when I recollect that moment it was not that it was not asleep but something very different >> something else was transitioning to you >> and what you said 2010 2011 you were announced as the successor
(1:07:37) >> in 2011 I was announced but I started feeling the waves now when I I collect all those things. Uh inner purity was extraordinary. >> You heard this uh couplet from one of the great Sufis. So from inside I felt Total emptiness yet limitless. >> Was it difficult
(1:08:25) becoming the leader of this path? >> No. >> Smooth. >> Nature then started helping. >> Spirituality is very easy. Other things are difficult. >> Dealing with human society. Divorces nowadays, family conflicts. These are the challenging periods >> as in of students you're saying of devotees lives. >> Devotees life. Yes.
(1:08:58) >> You have to feel the pain that they going through. Why? >> They feel sad. They feel sad seeing people who meditate. How why should they be? Don't they develop enough understanding, enough faith? >> I guess on the spiritual path as you are advancing your karmmas are meant to get cleaned up.
(1:09:23) So advancement also means positive suffering. >> More suffering will be there. But you have to understand that more will come. I should not fight and accept them. >> Accept >> accept. >> Keep going. Don't leave the path. >> Correct. >> Right. I used to think that you know they say this about mantras sadna that on the path of mantras sadna things become little violent like your life is violently shaken up for the same sake of karmic cleanse >> and I used to assume that in paths of meditation where dhan is like much more at the forefront it's a gentler path but
(1:09:55) I've come to realize that it's all the same >> if you meditate on the problems >> then it's a tougher path >> it's a tough use the path to solve the problem >> not to highlight the problem. >> It's like uh you know there are many movies you must have seen western movies especially where they use this term premeditated murder.
(1:10:25) >> So when the court decides premeditated murder versus accidental murder. So person who has done committed pre-meditated murder he plants properly meditates properly on the project. Likewise the side effect of meditation is this. When they get into a problem they somehow highlight on it and meditate more and more over it.
(1:10:56) That becomes worse. >> Why does it become worse? because you're brooding over it. Suppose your wife tells you something and you remember it during meditation, you're highlighting it now. See >> inside yourself, you're sewing that seed somewhere that's emotional uh baggage. >> Baggage, correct? >> Okay. >> Instead of trying to find why she said what she said, where did I go wrong, you're trying to find a fault in another person.
(1:11:31) So distance will keep increasing. Then see >> you think it's wise to kind of segregate your own consciousness into the one that belongs to human society and the one that belongs to yourself and your spiritual journey. And every time you're meditating, you just focus on the latter. >> That's a wiser move. Yes. >> Right.
(1:11:49) And as you move forward, you let human society stories play out. >> That's why they say mind your business. [laughter] >> Just stay in your lane. >> Stay focused. M and you know the painful truth I think grown-ups need to understand is that you're actually alone at the end of the day. It's just you and your consciousness. >> That's it. That's it.
(1:12:10) >> Even even if people around you are meditating and are pious, >> you're still alone. You're still alone. >> Yeah. Journey is going to be lonely. It's meant to be lonely. >> Yeah. >> Even when you are standing in front of Krishna, you are yourself. >> Yeah. Bow and arrows in your hands. choose the direction.
(1:12:30) >> Yeah. Which is perhaps why it's very important to learn to concentrate. That's why concentration I think is a skill that is underrated almost. >> You cannot learn to concentrate. >> Then >> concentration is is a byproduct >> of meditation. Suppose you try to concentrate on an object. Now when you talk of God, how will you concentrate on God? Something you have never seen.
(1:13:06) So concentration can reveal the material objects, >> not the ultimate. >> Got it. >> There are points in these conversations sometimes where I just feel like it's about enough for this conversation. I've started to feel that. I've been feeling it for like 10 15 minutes and I was battling it.
(1:13:25) I was trying to extract more but sometimes the space also dictates the conversation. Is there anything else you want to add to this? >> Well, I like people to experience it and then decide it for themselves. Yeah. >> Choice is yours. >> Yeah. I think uh this is good enough dense theoretical wisdom for today. But real wisdom will happen when you experience >> when you experience proof.
(1:13:49) That's gan versus vigan, right? >> Perfect. >> So chase vigan and not just gan. This is a good compass. That's about it. >> Lies very nicely summarized. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Di. Appreciate your presence. Just felt like I almost owed you something since the last conversation. So, uh I'm here like fulfilling that inner task that I've given myself.
(1:14:14) [laughter] Thank you, Raj. Appreciate it. Thank you. Heat. [music] [music] Heat.
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