6 Hours of Sleep is Destroying Your Healthspan | Here's Why
Author Name:Health Wealth
Youtube Channel Url:https://www.youtube.com/@thehealthwealthchannel
Youtube Video URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsRd0IMBhUw
Transcript:
(00:00) No, no. Start with start with him. How old do you think he is? >> Late 20s. I would say early 20s. Late 20s. [laughter] >> Really getting it? I'm not asking him. You've compared a human body to an ambassador car. [music] Like a car there is hardware and software. [music] The headlights can be the eyes. Engine can be the heart.
(00:24) The filtering organs like the kidney and the liver could be the exhaust pipe. The frame can be the muscular skeletal system >> and just like the car you need regular servicing as well. >> Say very simple things which all of us can do. I imagine it like the mass hierarchy pyramid wherein the foundational blocks of longevity are in the base.
(00:45) We pop supplements left, right and center. So you can't out supplement a bad lifestyle. We jump to the middle pyramid foundation. Then what is the point of painting the roof? something that you've defined as the 40year-old ICU club. >> I've seen a lot of founders who end up in the 40-year-old ICU club. I think we have this hustle culture now.
(01:06) It's become fashionable for uh founders to say, you know, sleep is enough. India is among the top two nations in the world when it comes to sleep deprivation. We have become very sedentary. The chair has become our graveyard. No, >> you have also said that inflammation in India today is one of the major causes for cancer.
(01:30) >> It is like a silent fire that is inside. Initially, you don't realize much but then eventually the house is going to burn down. I think Indians as a whole we have a lot of stress deadlines also he's watching this podcast [laughter] there is nighttime procrastination where I see all your reals on you on Instagram [laughter] >> guilty >> in the mornings as soon as you wake up the first thing you reach for is the charging phone.
(02:08) >> Yeah. >> And then you look at all the notifications. That is the master and you're the slave. >> 21 rules that you've listed for long life. What would that be? >> The best longevity secrets come for free. >> You know, all of this is good to know, but it's very hard to implement. We know what to do.
(02:28) It's just that life gets into the way. Even the knowledge then adds to the stress that So, give me a hack for that. No, that's it. So, let's start. Hello and welcome to Dr. Versus Internet. I'm Sor Meotra Kapoor. In today's podcast, we've got something that I've been dying to do for a very long time. research perspective.
(02:59) So today I have for you the first Indian doctor who's written an entire book on longevity and uh by the looks of it you can tell book cover to cover notes and this podcast I'm giving you a warning beforehand will be a long one because there is so much to decode everything to do from exercisements retective podcast which I'm very excited about.
(03:36) So let me not waste any time and welcome Dr. Navenar. Thank you so much for being here. You've come all the way from Chennai for this podcast. I'm so happy and thrilled. >> Thanks very much for having me here and it's lovely to see you. So big fan. >> Oh, I am a fan. A big big fan of your book.
(03:56) And let me start by saying this longevity in India reality that not everybody wants to be Brian Johnson. Nobody wants to live forever. If I ask an average Indian even inside my family they will say to quote a famous film and a movie dialogue but basically Indians Indians want healthy they don't want to be dependent on kids they don't want to be dependent on nurses doctors they just want a life that ages well I think that's where the health span versus lifespan debate it also comes in. Right.
(04:35) >> That's true. >> So my first question to you then is >> what do I need to do in my 30s, 40s, 50s to ensure that I'm aging gracefully? Initially when you said that Indians don't want to live that long the past has been that in in the 1900s our life expectancy was 35 then 72 men lived till 68 and women till 72 is that the right Hindi >> yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's fine.
(05:16) >> So that is what is going to happen. >> So my generation or my dad's generation who will live till 90? >> So your generation will definitely live till 90. >> Thankfully you didn't say my generation right now. >> So what is happening is we are living longer whether we want it or not. prepare ourselves in every which way possible whereby the number of years that we live also got to be years that we live with purpose with curiosity with happiness with less of stress >> and with the brain intact.
(05:52) What's the point of living till 100 if you can't remember the names of your friends or your family or your children? M >> so how to not just live long >> but how to stay strong and productive >> that is health span >> so how we bridge the gap between lifespan and health span >> is where longevity lies >> I see average generation like those born in the '9s will live for 90 that you're saying that's a given >> that is a given age that will be defined by what you do >> exactly >> yeah and this is fascinating what you're effectively saying is that millennials
(06:27) will be the first generation who lived till 90. But is it the first generation? I remember skip two generation before me. My great grandmother lived till 113 and lived a good life. Like she had a separate kitchen. She would do her own thing. And I keep rolling back to that's largely the generation that did not see devices.
(06:52) >> Did not have washing machines or mixer grinders. So for them life was very different >> ever since the onset of machines have come after that you're saying our generation will be the first one. So I what I essentially want to say is there have been individuals who have bucked the trend. We remember only the superheads purposeful curious and you know they have lived their life.
(07:26) Yeah. To the fullest. We remember those stars because they are they are superstars and we remember only the superstars. What I'm talking about is averages. How can every one of us be a superstar >> is what I'm talking about. >> No, fair point. Fair point. So, let me take you to that part in the book which I loved the most wherein you've compared a human body to an ambassador car.
(07:47) >> Yeah. >> You talk about how like a car there is hardware and software. Similarly, human body also has that. Right. >> True. >> And just like the car, you need regular servicing as well. >> See, >> right. So, which is why I find this entire car versus human body analogy so great.
(08:07) What got you thinking about it in the first place? >> It's easier to uh look at the human body and think that uh it fits the uh the car example because the headlights can be the eyes, engine can be the heart and then the uh the filtering organs like the kidney and the liver could be the exhaust pipe and all of these get clogged or broken.
(08:26) The chassis or the suspension could be your knees. So the frame can be the muscularkeeletal system. So it's easier to imagine the human body as a car and how as to how the car we do preventive maintenance every single year. I think it's important for the body to have a preventative health check every single year so that we do a preventative maintenance and what is the parallel for regular servicing of the car? What is the parallel of doing regular servicing of the car to the servicing of the body? All right. So I would say um build more
(09:01) muscle. >> Muscle is the fountain of youth. >> And uh for the mobility you need to do stretches or yoga because uh having muscle is one. Having flexibility and mobility is another thing. Get enough sleep. And then you should not feed too much of fuel into the car. You can't put aviation fuel into your car.
(09:19) You're an ambassador car. So you have to eat only as much as the ambassador car can take. That is called the capacity load mismatch. proportion. >> Try to avoid processed food >> and move around a car. However you got the best car, you pack it in the garage and don't take it for a spin. It's going to >> it's going to go waste.
(09:38) So the body is meant to move. The car is meant to be driven. >> Every single day probably we we have become very sedentary. We we the chair has become our graveyard now. I think we got to get out of the chair as much as possible. >> Chair has become the graveyard. Okay, that's that's the first of the gans that I'm taking away.
(10:06) So what we do is anytime when we read books or listen to experts or follow guidelines or for some days it may run but not optimally and one day it'll break down. So what we uh what we say for example Indians develop diabetes and hypertension >> at least 10 or 15 years prior to their western counterparts. blueprint Alex nutrition Alexa to we what we need is a manual for the
(10:55) Indian body >> which is what I hope this book has turned out to be >> okay let's talk about another very important chapter that you've mentioned and detail but I want to first talk about inflammation you've called it the silent fire and you have also said that inflammation in India today is one of the major causes for cancer that's a loaded Explain that to me.
(11:19) >> So inflammation is like having a stove and slow burn for like 20 30 years. So initially you don't realize much but then eventually the the house is going to burn down. >> So it is like a silent fire that is inside. In fact inflammation and aging are very connected which is why the the term that researchers have coined now is it's called inflammaging.
(11:38) >> So what happens is Indians pack uh all the extra calories that they eat into fat not in the right area. All this entire fat goes in and around the organs which is Indians have a propensity to pack a lot of visceral fat which is fat around the organs >> and this is a fountain of inflammatory mediators.
(11:57) It keeps producing things like cytoines or tumor necrosis factor. All of this inflammatory potent inflammatory cocktail is being secreted by the happy fat that you have around your tummy. [laughter] >> You call it happy fat. And the second thing that happens is uh our oil seed oil mix the processed food and uh the increased seed oils that we have uh yeah there was once the industry was talking about seed oils as the panacea for everything but we now know now know because of the imbalance it produces between omega 3 and omega 6.
(12:29) >> That is a potent inflammatory thing as well. Processed foods, lack of sleep, increased visceral fat and the seed oils they are wrecking havoc with our uh body and this is causing the chronic inflammation that is persisting in the body. This damages the arteries, damages the heart and uh it even causes uh plaques to build up in the brain to cause dementia.
(12:50) >> So it causes cancer. >> So inflammation is the root cause of aging. Inflammation is also the root cause of non-communicable diseases. M >> inflammation is also the root cause of cancer. >> But how does inflammation lead to cancer? What's the connection? >> So anything that is chronically irritated like for example the inflammation causes damage to the DNA.
(13:13) So the DNA is damaged then when cell division happens they don't divide properly. >> So the cancer starts in those cells where the DNA has been primarily damaged. >> And there is also a process called as autoag that doesn't work well. lot of AG is the good cells going and eating off the uh so-called bad cells that doesn't happen properly if there is a inflammation that is persisting for a long time >> and then these rogue cells which which are left uh on their own they start becoming cancer as well >> is there a way to cut down inflammation
(13:43) in your body and is there something that we can do without medicines perhaps >> so that is the first way the foundational way get enough sleep >> maintain a normal body weight >> avoid the accumulation of visceral fat. >> We avoid the accumulation of viseral fat by moving more, building more muscle. >> Okay.
(14:03) So, first tell me how do I know that I'm inflamed? >> So, if you go and take a blood checkup today, we got to look at a couple of things. >> We look at inflammatory markers in the blood. >> One is C reactive protein. There is one other thing called as HSCP which is highly sensitive CA reactive protein. um and then there is ESR and then homocyine.
(14:25) >> So these are all your surrogate markers of inflammation. So we do have A B C D which are components in your blood workup which your doctor can suggest to you during a preventative health check >> which will indicate very clearly >> you whether you have inflammation. >> Second thing which is not a part of most of the health checks now >> but which should be a part is fasting insulin.
(14:48) >> Okay. Because if we take if we have that test then we know are we insulin resistant >> right now we go how do we >> you're saying automatically if you are insulin resistant you will be inflamed >> yes ah >> that is what I'm getting at >> ah >> so if you look at the entire NCD spectrum it is caused by two things visceral fat insulin resistance >> so how we avoid the both is by building muscle sleeping well >> moving more >> okay so now I've taken the test I figured out that I am inflamed.
(15:19) What do I do? >> Then we got to check out your BMI. >> Uh more than a BMI, waist circumference is is a better indicator for uh your uh >> uh for Indians the cut off is smaller. So it's not 90, it's 85 for [clears throat] >> waist to hip circumference. Yeah. Yeah. Ratio. So we look at that and then uh uh if possible we take a gold standard test which is DEXA which is your uh uh the same machine that measures your bone density also also measures your uh uh fat percentage in all the parts of the body. It'll give an accurate estimation
(15:50) of >> but the smart scale also tells you that you don't rely on it. >> Smart scale is not very accurate. It's not medical grade. >> So medical grade is still uh but smart scale is good enough along with your waist circumference and most other people. Yeah, because but DEXA scan is will cost how much if somebody wants to get it done? >> Say about 8 to 10,000.
(16:08) >> Ah, which is why >> which is slightly expensive. >> So if you have an 8 electrode smart scale which is good enough. >> The more the electrodes the better the accuracy accuracy of that. >> Here again don't look at a single reading. Look at trends. >> Is your waist circumference increasing slowly? is your uh visceral fat percentage as given by your weight machine increasing slowly.
(16:33) So look at trends rather than a single data point once we got the inflammatory markers done once you know that you have viseral fat and once you are fasting insulin says that your insulin resistance >> we got to find ways to reverse this >> ways to reverse this is a like I told you get enough sleep 8 hours of sleep a day and then start moving more and then build muscle.
(16:55) So musles are the fountain of youth. When you build muscle, you're metabolic. >> You're not going to tell me any ka. You're not going to tell me have haldi with black pepper and some ghee. You'll not say any of that. You're going back to the boring stuff. What is this? >> So I would say if you want to reduce a visceral fat, intermittent fasting works very well.
(17:12) >> Okay. >> So 15 hours or 16 hours of fast >> because that is what is called as metabolic flexibility. >> Imagine you have a hybrid car that has a fuel tank that also has a gas tank. M. >> So when fuel goes down, you can flip the switch and run on CG, >> right? Our body is also like that. It can run on carbs.
(17:30) It can also run on fat. >> We have always used carbs for the running of the body. We've forgotten how to use the fat. >> Yeah. >> Switch. We have it inside, but you've forgotten how to flip it. >> This is called metabolic flexibility. Why? >> The switch is this one. [laughter] >> Shut it. Shut the damn thing. >> So there is a way where you can teach your body to burn the fat for energy.
(17:51) M >> that is by doing intermittent fasting >> where you stop eating at say 6:00 or 7:00 >> and then start eating at I I I stop at 7:00 in the night and I have it at 11:00 in the morning. >> So it's a 15 hour fast is when the body is starving and you're not giving it enough glucose which means it has to burn the fat for fuel.
(18:08) >> Yeah. >> So you're teaching the body har so >> so all those celebrity inflammation anti-inflammation cubes etc that they make they're all bunkham then >> totally. [laughter] Okay, let me go back to the seed oil conversation that you had. What are you telling me then are the oils to completely avoid and the ones that should replace them.
(18:29) >> Okay, I wouldn't say avoid sunflower oil or seed oils. If you're eating sunflower oil or seed oil to balance that out, take fish oil supplements, take omega3. But if you are not going to take those supplements and you want to completely change your oil, change to something like uh uh filtered not refined filtered groundnut oil or filtered mustard oil.
(18:55) >> Is filtered the same as coldressed? >> Coldressed is a different kind of filtered but it's not the same. So filtered is just unrefined. >> So how do I get to know if a oil is filtered or not? >> The filtered oils would have a a murkiness to them. >> Okay. And the refined oils are all pristine like very clear.
(19:16) >> Yeah. >> So filtered oil would be slightly uh opaqueish. >> Yes, that is what I mean. >> Okay. So a coldressed coconut oil >> coldress is still good. >> It's slightly like that. It's not as crystal clear, right? So >> cold pressing is a process in which they extract these oils. But after that, but most coldressed oils are uh filtered.
(19:36) >> Uh but not all filtered oils are coldressed. >> I see. So we all know that Indians do this wrong. Extra virgin olive oil extra virgin olive oil. That's that's not to be done right. For that you have things like coconut oil. For that you have things like mustard oil which have high heat point. Right.
(19:55) We've done an entire series actually on oil. >> So I want you to give me five switches that are easy to adapt in an Indian kitchen for oils. >> Okay. So if if possible throw out the seed oils and get in uh mustard oil or ground nut oil and for the turkas you can use uh coconut oil. >> Uh and then uh but most important part is don't have too much of oil.
(20:21) Whichever oil if you have it more than more than three uh spoons per day >> is not good because it's a calorie dense stuff it's going to make you fatter. >> Yeah. >> So that is one thing about the oil. So get the right oils in. If you're unable to change the sunflower oil for some reason, supplement with omega3. >> So that will reduce the inflammation, cool you down uh because it restores the balance between the omega3.
(20:45) >> Yeah. But the thing in India is you don't get a good omega3. You know there are we did like this entire reel on omega3 and we understood that when we also visited the pharmacy they were a all the supplements there not medical grade >> those which we came from good brands were not third party tested >> did not you know have all the complete omega-3s that are required right the EPA and the rest of them >> so how do you get to the right omega3 >> we should we should look at uh omega-3s that have a higher EPA to DHA ratio you
(21:17) should also look at ones that are uh reestified triglycerides RTG >> rather than uh an ethylester form because that reduces the burpiness. >> You should go with some uh good brands which are importing uh from certified foreign countries and then repackaging it wherein it also works out cheaper. >> From an Indian perspective, we always look at value.
(21:42) >> We can't be all all of us having Nordic naturalis or Nordic ultimate every single day. There are lovely Indian brands available >> which import from these foreign manufacturers who have the certifications and they repackage it >> and also look at the ones wherein one capsule will give you a very high load.
(21:59) Many of these omega-3s they what they have listed is that two capsules or three capsules uh what EPA and DHA they give they would have listed it. It makes no sense because >> nobody's having that. >> Exactly. Indians would probably buy 60 capsules and have pop one a day. Yeah. >> Uh I think uh >> we should look at those things.
(22:17) >> Okay. Uh let's move on now from inflammation to something that you've defined as the 40year-old ICU club. Now totally relate to it. Uh my husband is in his 40s. Every weekend when he meets his friends, it could be over a game of u bad bminton or pickle or squash or whatever. And the only active conversation that they're all having, these 40-year-old men, is that how do I avoid a heart attack, >> right? >> Right.
(22:47) They're all wearing their Apple watches or any kind of other tracker to ensure that it takes, you know, it sort of stays in in in in shape or stays in place. Uh but how does one not become part of this 40-year-old ICU club? What is the key thing? >> Right? I've seen a lot of founders who end up in the 40-y old ICO club or people who actually I think we have this hustle culture now people it's become fashionable for uh founders to say that I've biohacked myself um you know sleep is enough or 3 and a half some people are so precise that say 3
(23:25) hours 45 minutes is exactly how much of sleep my body needs >> who are these [laughter] people >> so these are the ones who end up in the ICU I think the number One reason that like you asked is sleep. >> People are sleeping less. India is among the top two nations in the world when it comes to sleep deprivation.
(23:45) >> I think the first is Japan. >> So what has happened is we as a nation absolutely check that. >> Japan where people live long they have better genetics than us. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> So what has happened is that we have skipped on sleep. Uh the sleep is uh a complete uh reboot protocol that happens to your system every single night.
(24:07) It keeps your uh it cleans out your brain and it uh it it it sort of sets the cleaning in action for the entire body. >> If you get 3 hours or 4 hours of sleep or you go to sleep late and wake up early, you miss out on key elements in the sleep and that causes insulin resistance, cortisol and >> key elements. Yes.
(24:29) >> What are the key elements in a sleep? >> So, sleep is composed of uh deep sleep, REM sleep and light sleep. >> For the lay men, this is good enough, right? So, the most of the deep sleep comes in the first few hours of going to bed. >> What we got to do is if we have a very heavy meal at say uh 9:00 and then go to bed at 9:30, then your deep sleep is going to be delayed.
(24:57) deep sleep before 3 hours of your bedtime. >> So, >> so you think you'll fall asleep but you will not get the quality of sleep. >> Exactly. So, the deep sleep primarily falls in the first few hours after going to bed >> and the REM sleep falls into the first few hours of the early morning. M >> so you have to make sure that when you are in bed uh your body your tummy is free of uh the digestion process.
(25:26) >> Digestion is also a very thermic process. That's because you know it's a very thermic process. So before if you if you stop your food 3 hours prior to that your body's got enough time to digest it off which means the body does not have any other priorities other than sleep during that time and you get enough deep sleep.
(25:44) >> Second thing that you have to avoid is caffeine. When you have coffee, what time is it now? More than 3:00, more than 3 p.m., preferably 1:00 p.m. >> It messes with your deep sleep because coffee has a half life of close to 8 hours. So, which means if you drink one cup of coffee, >> it's like equivalent to drinking half a cup of coffee right before going to bed.
(26:07) >> It is equal to you drinking half a cup. >> You are not getting sleep tonight. [laughter] It's 1:30. It's not happening. So caffeine uh stop caffeine uh at least 7 to 8 hours prior to bed. >> That's a lot. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And uh avoid uh food. The third thing is any strenuous activity >> like people have a fashion of going and playing bad late and your husband does that? >> No.
(26:31) [laughter] >> Okay. That messes with your deep sleep. >> So to get deep sleep alcohol alcohol also messes with your deep sleep. So deep sleep we have to understand it happens in the first few hours after going to bed at that time you need a nice cool room tummy free of food no caffeine in the system and you get beautiful deep sleep >> REM sleep comes only in the morning >> so for us to get enough REM sleep what we got to do is we can't go to bed at 11 keep alarm at 4:00 and wake up there are some 40ear ICO friends who say who talk
(27:02) about the god zone uh 1:30 a.m. They wake up >> and then they tinker about with their computers till 3:00 3:30 and they say that is when God gives them amazing ideas [laughter] and I'm like crazy who who said that right. So uh >> dude I have written scripts [laughter] like that. >> I'm so sorry.
(27:26) I didn't know I was damaging you. [laughter] >> No but there's something about the brain that something happens like I've woken up in the middle of the night and said oh my god that's the line that I want to say or oh my god that's the idea that's the next podcast. It's happened so many times. So let me tell you why that happens.
(27:40) >> Why >> REM sleep is when your your brain interconnects a lot of thoughts and comes up with new solutions. Of course, you must have gotten REM sleep and immediately woken up. Had you left it for few more hours, you'd have gotten even more beautiful starts at 5:00 a.m. is what I'm saying. >> Oh, [laughter] >> so REM sleep has got this >> but I'm not making an effort to get up.
(28:00) I automatically woke up. I >> understand. So what we got to do is we got to avoid that. Uh one way of uh one way of doing that is to make sure we go to bed and wake up at the same time >> and early morning if you are able to expose ourselves to sunlight. >> Just just have a walk on your terrace even a few minutes of sun uh of sun in the morning as soon as you wake up >> that sets your circadian rhythm right >> and evening avoid uh uh uh blue light >> uh make your room >> basically avoid your phone.
(28:32) >> Exactly. So I always charge my phone outside in the living room. >> I I try to keep the phone the laptop away from the bedroom >> because the second guest on the podcast [laughter] in one week I've done who's not keeping their phone in the bedroom. I think that's the new one. >> Yeah.
(28:48) Because uh when it is there the first thing that you do is that there is nighttime procrastination where I see all your res on you on Instagram. [laughter] >> Guilty. I mean I'm not asking you to watch it. All you people don't do it anyway. >> It's so addictive. Yes, like when somebody is talking it's interesting we keep watching which uh which I could do that at some of the time but I think that is the leisure time for me to see.
(29:10) >> The second thing is in the mornings as soon as you wake up the first thing you reach for is the charging phone. >> Yeah. >> And then you look at all the notifications. >> So I would tell you the actual god hour is the morning hour as soon as you wake up wherein you you don't need the phone dictating to you.
(29:29) >> So it's like that is the master and you're the slave. So you scroll then there's a couple of notifications that says there's a podcast with Dr. Naven whatever and then you become a slave. I'll tell you do talk doc you know all of this is good to know but it's very hard to implement I have a 3-year-old at home okay she wakes up at least 2 to three times at night in the morning I don't have a alarm clock she wakes me up because she her circadian rhythm is like really spot on right like she will wake up at 5:30 dot no matter what time she's
(29:56) sleeping >> correct >> right I mean if she's unwell it's a different story but 5:30 is like on the ball right now I really find it hard to implement this and I think that's where a lot of Indians are getting stuck. We know what to do. It's just that life gets into the way. >> I just don't know how to do this.
(30:15) >> Right. So, and and the same thing, you have a kid at home, you have responsibilities, it just doesn't add up. It just doesn't help. Even the knowledge then adds to the stress that so give me a hack for that. No, >> I would say start with small things. You can't change the fact that your kid is three year old or wakes you up in the night.
(30:37) M so forget about that but what is in your control you can charge your phone outside >> try it for 2 days the third day it becomes a habit the fourth day if the phone were inside you would feel it to be a problem >> so small things you've done consistently and then one built on top of the other which we call as habit stacking >> it stacking stacking so it's like >> one good habit for this week >> for the second week add on one more habit >> third week add on the third habit >> whilst you continue to do the one two and threem And we can start very small
(31:07) little little things. What is beyond your control don't fret over it. >> But what is in our control at least let us change that. >> Let us not take this as a big burden. In one day you want to become a completely new individual. >> It doesn't apart from the phone. >> Do you have yellow lights in your room? >> Yes.
(31:27) >> Okay. Yellow lights in your room. >> Can you dim the lights? >> Yes, I can switch them off. Switch on the lamp which is >> ah so if you can switch to a dimmer light say 1 to one and a half hours prior to your sleep >> that helps >> and a cold room helps. >> So what is your a temperature? >> 24 >> 24 you can probably bring it down to 22 >> that helps with the deep sleep >> and a warm shower helps sometimes prior to the uh to the sleep.
(31:57) H >> I'll tell you why that might when I talked about the thermic process of digestion I said lot of heat inside which is why you warm shower is a contradiction because warm shower what happens is it dilates all the capillaries >> which means there's a lot of blood flowing to your outer skin >> as soon as you take a warm shower now imagine uh this nice blood flowing to the entire body >> and then you go into a 21° C room >> so the cooling of the body happens faster. Ah okay.
(32:26) >> Which is why a warm shower helps. >> Okay. >> Uh but the digestion process it's it's inside heat which is going to stay on for a long time. >> Right. That I can't control. Right. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. I like how you have not mentioned magnesium. You have not mentioned melatonin. Absolutely. >> You've not said put on a sleep tracker.
(32:43) You're saying none of that. >> None of that. None of that. So I'm I'm more about the foundation habits. Like we got to get the base of the building, the foundation right. the foundation to it's it's shaking. So I think we got to build a nice foundation >> and go step by step before we worry about biohacking.
(33:04) I think we got to get the foundation right. >> Okay. Talking about sleep I have to bring in the next one. This is about stress management and again and we'll talk about in the end of the book you speak about some 21 rules for a long life and one of the key things there is stress management and you've beautifully described something called u the synthesis of happiness please explain [clears throat] to me how to get into that nirvana zone and get the synthesis of happiness going for me >> so I think Indians as a whole we have a lot of stress
(33:38) Why it is different from our ancestors? Ancestors had acute stress that was an acute stress promotion or trafficution. [laughter] So these are chronic stresses stressors for us. That is what I meant when I said that a chronic stress is like you putting your car in first gear >> and in that same first gear driving from Delhi to Chandigar.
(34:10) So the [snorts] car is going to break down at the end of it. Acute stress is like just climbing a small incline with the first gear or second gear. So chronic stress which we call in medical parlance as allostatic load. The amygdala signals to the body. Amigdala is a part of the brain that signals to the body. So you have to either fight or flight.
(34:35) >> So this amigdala signals to the body to release cortisol and adrenaline which flood your body with sugar >> because the body thinks you need sugar to either fight or flight. So it's like [laughter] also he's watching this podcast. >> Oh, fantastic. Okay. >> [laughter] >> So I um we can't run and whatever all of this glucose that has come into the bloodstream >> uh it is going to spike your insulin levels.
(35:13) You're not using it to fight or fly. >> So this increased sugar in the body because of these stress hormones spikes up the insulin levels. >> Insulin spike. >> Then it becomes an insulin resistance kind of a thing where you get fatty liver where uh insulin resistance is the cause for all the non-communicable diseases that we have today like cholesterol, BP, hypertension and diabetes, >> cancer.
(35:40) Most of it is just one root cause that is insulin resistance. >> Wow. >> And chronic stress brings about this insulin resistance every single day because it shoots up the sugars. [snorts] >> Okay. So, I have known this and we've done this entire podcast talking about insulin resistance, but I knew it happened with your diet. It happened with food.
(36:00) >> This is for the first time you're telling me the relationship between >> stress >> stress and insulin resistance. >> Absolutely. >> Wow. >> So, too much of stress causes too much of sugar spikes. >> Too much of sugar spikes cause too much of insulin spikes. Too much of insulin spikes cause insulin resistance.
(36:17) M the cells start every time insulin spikes why should I listen to him and the cells become resistant to insulin that is what happens uh in this uh vicious cycle what we call >> wherein the sugars spike often because of the insulin spikes often because insulin spikes often the the cells in the body turn a deaf year to insulin it doesn't listen to the insulin >> and this is insulin >> basically give up I get that but >> you Again I keep bringing back the conversation into everyday life application and okay so you see a
(36:53) regular life of a uh let me say a normal person who lives in the metros okay tier one tier 2 cities okay >> let's look at life of any individual in their 30s or 40s >> living in the metros or maybe living in tier one tier two as well right >> they will >> want to ensure that they are staying fit Okay, >> they will want to stay healthy.
(37:19) They will make the right choices. But stress is something that is beyond you. >> We live in a world where we cannot wish away stress. There is stress about there is stress about there is stress about levels you know what what will be the traffic like today right so you can't wish away that and I keep saying this in in our team in the health well team we have these very active discussions and I often say that we are still we are the kind of people who actually love our job so 80% we are better off than the rest of the crowd
(37:51) but despite that there is stress so how does this synthesis of happiness is really happen and how do I apply it in my life? >> So you're right when you say that stress is a bottom line. Everybody has stress. >> Yeah. >> So we got to make a very concerted effort to manage stress. >> So we can do it in multiple ways.
(38:10) >> First thing is the mindset. When you talk about synthesis of happiness, yes, there was a Howard study by Dan Gilbert that found that people could actually synthesize happiness. >> It compared two cohorts. people who won a million dollars in a lottery and people who lost uh the function of their limbs in accidents.
(38:26) Uh initially the lottery owners had really uh you know a lot of joy at the end of one year the happiness levels of both of them were pretty much the same. H >> so it goes on to say happiness is in your mind. >> So the if you whether you irrespective of whether you win a lottery or you lose both legs the happiness levels of both of these cards can still be the same if you choose.
(38:49) So, so how do we do that in our day-to-day day-to-day lives, right? >> So, we have something called as comparative misery which is a common phenomena for Indians. >> This sharm sun syndrome wherein we compare ourselves with everything else. It could be a peer in the office who gets a gets a better promotion or a better uh what do you call a story >> or it could be uh our child as compared to the next door child or the education system I CBS.
(39:16) So which is what is he going to be tomorrow that kind of a stress. >> The other thing is the the food stress, family stress and then the caregiver stress for women particularly women face a little bit of extraes because of caregivers. Women are beautiful caregivers whether they want it or not. >> They assume the caregiver responsibility of everybody in the household.
(39:36) >> No for all the feminism that's going on. I think it's inherent in women that they are beautiful caregivers and that's >> I like the line whether they like it or not. >> Yes. and and it becomes a huge stress on them uh over a period of time. >> I think we should stop comparisons. We should we should become what is called as uh satisficers in that not try to aim for things that are beyond our reach or continually continuously aspire for things beyond our reach or things that we did not get. Rather start liking
(40:10) things that we have or Is that the right hindi? >> Yeah, it [laughter] is the right thing. >> All right. So, it could be >> appreciate what you have. >> Yes. >> Not sort of, you know, stress over what you don't. >> Yes. It could be a wife, it could be a husband, it could be a career, it could be a job, >> it could be the book.
(40:32) Whatever you have is yours. >> Just enjoy it and stay happy with that. >> And I think we should be happy with the things that we achieve >> rather than constantly looking at horizons. I have sometimes this way of putting it. We all climbing a ladder >> where the rungs don't end at all. The problem is because we are the ones who are taking the bottom rungs and putting it on top on top on top immemorial.
(41:03) So simple. [laughter] So simple. >> So that is that is one way of looking at it. Second way of managing stress is get good sleep. Again >> a lot of good sleep. M >> makes you gives you the armor to face the next day's battle. >> It's like you know 8 hours of sleep is actually making you look like a Roman god with all the shields >> and then you come to work and then nothing can you know hit you.
(41:25) >> I [laughter] agree. I absolutely agree. I want that. I'm just not getting it. I I don't know when the time will come in and actually achieve it. But you like uh seem like a guy who's pretty happy in their own thing. What's your like happiness routine? >> So, >> is there one? >> Yeah.
(41:45) Yeah. I I have a lot of happiness routines actually. >> Like [laughter] >> I play uh raet sports. So, raet sports is a beautiful way to connect with friends. >> Huh. >> And then like your husband. Yeah. Uh >> we should do a game. >> Yeah. We should we should so tennis is uh proven to add about 9.6 years to life. >> Batman about 6.8.
(42:05) Basically why raet sports are much better than uh running or high rocks or any of those things is because you you you have two kinds of cardio happening when you uh it's it's like a hiit in a more enjoyable form >> wherein you have this banter you have this teasing >> and then you have this uh challenge matches and then um you know at least in the in the part of India where I come from the losing team has to buy everybody else a lovely south Indian breakfast.
(42:30) >> Okay. >> So there's a community that's going on. I like it's breakfast. Eh, you guys are not doing it in the evening. >> No, not in the evening. >> So, it's there's a beautiful community that's going on there and community is very important for your mental health as well as we grow older.
(42:43) We need to have a lot more friends >> and we need to have a community going because it preserves our uh uh cognition. >> So, which is why my uh my way my joy is uh my way of stress relief is uh >> how many times a week do you end up playing? >> Three [snorts] times it easily. One day is batminton, a couple of days is pickle ball.
(43:03) >> That's come up pretty big in the south as well. So yeah, [laughter] >> I don't know how it's in Delhi. >> It can't be just racket sport. It has to be more than that. >> Um well I I do get good a good good night's sleep most of the time. I I consciously make sure uh that I get good and uh I'm happy >> doing things that I'm doing.
(43:22) I I I I don't try to put obstacles or try to achieve too many things. Whatever happens, it's a very creative process. It happens and I'm eternally curious. It's it's like a how do I put this? It's it's it's a flow state meditation where you do something where you get lost in that. >> That's pure bliss. >> Yeah. I call it walking meditation.
(43:48) >> All right. >> Yeah. So when when I'm cooking >> Yeah. It's that because I'm forced to not think about anything else. [laughter] >> Right. So if because you've got to get the proportions right, you can't like mess with other things. >> Also because I do that very rarely. I want to get it right. >> So you're really like in it to ensure that it comes out.
(44:08) >> So for me that happens in my uh wildlife photography. Every 2 three months I go off to one of these jungles and >> so having a hobby that's the one. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> Yeah. Outside of work >> and nature helps. I think I I see Delhi if I took the AQI out of my mind, I see such a green place. >> Yeah, >> only the AQI is a problem, right? >> And traffic.
(44:29) >> And traffic. Yes. >> So if you have any nice green parks where you can get a run even once a week, >> the the nature uh bathing as the Japanese call it >> does a lot to your stress levels. It brings it down. >> Yeah. [snorts] >> And spirituality, mindfulness, meditation. If you're a temple go, >> go. >> Uh I often I always had this fear, right? because I'm sort of an atheist.
(44:52) >> Uh >> sort of aist [laughter] what does that mean? >> So I I I I I don't know. I'm just trying to figure out if there is a god. Right. So I always had this big FOMO that okay spiritual people and religious people they are so stressfree because temples are this great places for spirituality. But I believe um people uh can find spirituality in things like simple things like meditation or nature or whatever it is that you that is your uh thing like cooking for example.
(45:22) Spirituality is to be found in every activity that completely pulls you in and keeps you there. >> Yeah. Spirituality is a longevity hack. Can we can we say that? >> Absolutely. >> That's a chapter there in your book. That's what you've discovered on [laughter] the podcast. >> No, there is evidence.
(45:39) I've actually put it actually meditation there there are uh studies were done on monks >> and uh showed significantly difference in the way that their bodies were aging in the way that their cognition was intact. meditation and spirituality do make a difference >> and which is why I say if you're religious find your spirituality in religion if you're a religious or atheist or still trying to figure out they're confused then find it as something else that pulls you and keeps you there and makes you or is another thing like every time you imagine the
(46:12) universe and you think then you know then whatever you do doesn't have to sit like a pile of logs on your head. You think >> the life is is is infinite. That kind of >> this podcast is turning into therapy. [laughter] But I I like that. And this is such a difference from what people think about longevity. Right.
(46:41) The minute you talk about longevity, people think about Brian Johnson, >> right? >> Right. He's popping like 120 pills a day. now has a very serious disease perhaps because of those pills as well. But what are your thoughts on him? >> So I would say Brian Johnson is a great businessman. I would say what works for millennials millennials doesn't have to work for the normal public.
(47:03) >> If you look at the NCD burden in India, right? >> Uh 68% of all deaths in India today are caused by non-communicable diseases. >> So we have such a huge problem. Not all of us can become Brian Johnson. M >> what and I don't think he's doing it right as well. I think I I imagine it like the Maslo's hierarchy pyramid wherein the foundational blocks of longevity are in the base.
(47:28) So the basics boring basics would be sleep, stress management, balance, nutrition, >> movement, muscle building and so on. Very simple things which all of us can do. But we jump to the middle pyramid >> which is melatonin cow magnesium cow [laughter] and then we we we pop supplements left right and center. So you can't outsupplement a bad lifestyle foundation foundation >> then what is the point of painting the roof >> and the apex of the pyramid is further worse. It's it's about peptides.
(48:05) It's about ice baths. It's about red light therapy. It's about m inhibitors. It's about rapamisin. It's about blue zone. Not everybody in India can fly and fly to a blue zone, eat the diet of a sardinian shepherd. We have roti and dal in front of us. How can we eat it better? How can we balance it with di or some other protein source? >> How can we put away our our work and get 8 hours of sleep? None of it is manga.
(48:33) None of it. As as Indians, we are very value conscious people. I'm telling you the best longevity secrets come for free. [laughter] >> What are the hardest to do? >> Yes. >> Simplest to know and hardest to implement. >> That is true. That is true. >> Because there is no pill for that. >> That is true. >> Yeah.
(48:50) And as Indians we want a pill for everything. >> Once somebody told me that they didn't like a doctor because there I was like >> I want that doctor. [laughter] [gasps] >> Yeah. I I usually tell people get on work on the foundations first before we start aiming at the middle and the top tiers. >> M but [snorts] there are few doctors like that I must say it's it's a very very small group.
(49:13) >> Okay let's move from this one to uh another aspect that you have spoken about which is biohacking. >> Right. >> Right. U B Ryan Johnson claims that he has biohacked his way into looking at least 10 if not 15 years younger and it shows on his face. If you put his and his son's picture together, you can't tell >> who's the dad, right? And he's used blood transfusion, stem cell, God knows everything on the planet is what he's done.
(49:42) Could you explain to us essentially what is biohacking like like longevity? Have we also mi misunderstood biohacking? So biohacking is um the human mind tinkering with the human body with a lot of uh experimental most of mostly experimental few proven things. >> Okay. >> So Brian Johnson is tinkering with his own body with a lot of experimental things that are shown to work very well in mice but are still not proven yet to work great in humans.
(50:12) >> [snorts] >> But there are some bio hacks which all of us can apply which works well beyond mice even on humans like for example the trackers that we wear you have a smartwatch I have a ring >> it gives you some basic insights about your health right and then even that I tell people don't get obsessively obsessed about the huge amount of data that your tracker is outputting every single hour >> look at trends >> like for example I probably check the uh app interface once or twice a week.
(50:44) >> That's it. >> That's it. >> Wow. >> So I think what we should do is uh not check on every single activity >> like I check my steps in my >> that is calorie. That is okay. But uh like if you're going to foot blog every single u meal or if you're going to look at how your heart rate variability changed with every game >> or what is the maximum heart rate you achieved or the Voto max that is coming out of it.
(51:11) >> We are actually getting obsessed over data that is a completely different kind of stress. >> I would say let the data accumulate. >> Let it form a trend. Look at those trends at least once a week. Say you can look at a trend once a week and then see a saft my deep sleep was low. I need to try try to prioritize my sleep more in the next uh week or I took lesser number of steps overall this week.
(51:36) >> Let me make it a priority to walk after every meal for this week. Conscious decisions shorty short decisions which you can make with the trends rather than checking the trackers every single day. >> One of the hack that we talk about is the CGM or the continuous glucose monitor.
(51:51) Yeah, I was just going to say CGM the whole idea is to constantly glucose monitor your body, >> right? It doesn't work. >> So, we have a lot of influencers who strap on CGMs and say, "A this papaya spiked my sugar to this much. This banana spike my father's insulin, I mean sugar to this much." >> CGMs are a great way for your diabetist to understand your profile and how you respond to diabetic drugs.
(52:19) M >> probably once. >> M >> uh for the average man it may still work once for you to understand your patterns >> and what is causing these spikes. But for people to actually religiously note down every single food stuff and how much it has spiked their sugar >> is [snorts] crazy because that is what your pancreas is for.
(52:42) >> So you cannot outguess your own body. >> Yeah. But my issue is a lot of people have been writing to us saying that their CGM monitors and their blood test they don't match. >> They don't because most of them are not uh device grade. So the sensors and the >> what is not device grade? CGMs. >> Yeah. Some CGMs are not device grade.
(53:03) I mean uh they wouldn't be the ones that are graded enough to be used in a clinical setting to accuracy. So even that is the same for trackers as well. the sleep tracking or the activity >> and that's dangerous >> and they want to max >> because every time your CGM is giving you a reading which is like extremely low you are eating sugar >> absolutely >> then you're calling up your doctor to say this is happening the doctor's changing your medication but actually the the tracker is not up to the mark >> there's absolutely too much of data and
(53:29) people are obsessing over this data I would say let let your doctor decide whether you need a CGM >> is not an intervention where you get out of a company wear it on as a badge of honor and uh wear sleeveless to office so that everybody can see them. That that happens in a lot of Bangalore. I've seen a couple of my patients do that right [snorts] uh similar to how Hyrox has also become a fashion with the people right >> you don't endorse both >> I would say I endorse it selectively >> so if you're getting 3 hours of sleep
(53:59) and going for high rocks you might end up with a heart attack my friend so I'm saying [laughter] you fix the foundational steps before you even go into that >> the same way the CGMs I'm saying you fix your eating lifestyle take proportioned food and then you stop eating before 3 hours Try intermittent fasting for 12 to 15 hours before you even think of these things.
(54:21) The see it is easy for us to spend something on Amazon. We all have quick commas right now. So we want it immediately. We want everything to be immediate. >> That is our problem. >> That is what I say with these things. >> There are a couple of biohacks like um ice baths >> and red light therapy that are proven that are that are proven to be beneficial.
(54:40) >> Oh, they work. >> They work. M >> but again I say with a caveat because everybody who is not fixing their sleep or their movement or their metabolism would immediately go to a red bath place or a sauna or take ice cryogenic baths go to the top after you fix the foundation otherwise it doesn't work >> that is what I would say fix the foundation >> and then you can look at the middle tier then look at the top tier >> this brings me to a new game that we are introducing on the show it's doctor versus internet.
(55:12) >> All right. >> And I want you to talk to me a little bit about uh what works and what does not work from a longevity lens. Okay. So, internet says GLP1 drugs are the new longevity hack. What does the doctor say? >> I think it is a useful thing for people who cannot lose weight otherwise. It is a boon for them but not for regular people.
(55:37) >> Okay. Internet says ice baths reverse aging. What does a doctor say? >> Ice baths can help in improving your longevity, but they don't magically reverse aging until you got your get your foundations right. >> Okay. Internet says red light therapy repairs skin at a cellular level. Doctor, >> true.
(56:00) But again, the caveats get the foundation right before you look at the apex. >> Okay. Internet says Hbot hyperbaric oxygen slows aging doctor >> forget it doesn't work. >> Internet says sauna habits adds ears to your life doctor. >> So colats and sauna both of them are something called as hormesis where you stress your body to a level where it can give you some benefits.
(56:29) Both of them can work in people but they won't work if your foundations are not right. >> What kind of people do they work in? >> They work in people who for whom already the sleep is perfect for whom they are already getting enough uh uh uh movement work in people in whom already the foundational blocks of the stress is managed.
(56:52) >> So and if we get the foundational blocks right then we can aim at these things. Five foundation blocks being >> stress management, sleep, movement, managing your metabolism, and then your muscle building muscle. >> H okay, another one. Internet says NMN and NAD plus boosters slow aging. >> No. >> Okay, that was a emphatic no.
(57:16) [laughter] Internet says collagen powders reverse skin aging. Caveat few studies show that they may have a marginal >> a marginal impact. >> How marginal over your collagen creams? We need more studies. Maybe collagen creams are better or equal to that of collagen supplements. >> So they may have a marginal effect >> is what recent studies say.
(57:41) >> Okay. So take it or no? >> Take it. >> Okay. Internet says that vegetarians are automatically less inflamed. >> Wrong. Because most vegetarians have vitamin B12 deficiency. Homoyine spikes >> because homoyine is a potent inflammatory mediator. >> So you become sati and eat only vegan food doesn't mean your body is not inflamed.
(58:08) [laughter] M so you have a vegetarian diet and if your B12 levels are low, if your homocyine has spiked, it is a potent inflammatory mediator. If you're a vegetarian, always make sure you check your B12 levels and your homocyine levels cuz homoyine can cause heart attacks in vegetarians. >> Good lord, I didn't know that.
(58:29) Okay, internet says keto is the best diet for longevity. >> Wrong. >> What is the best diet for? Intermittent fasting is the only diet that has a certain level of evidence behind it for improving your longevity, lifespan and health span. >> Not for diabetics, of course. [snorts] >> Yes. >> Yeah. Okay.
(58:50) U says 8 hours of sleep is non-negotiable. >> Agree. >> Finally, something [laughter] that internet and doctor agrees upon. Internet says seed oils are the reason Indians are unhealthy. >> One of the reasons >> internet says cold plunges boost metabolism. >> [snorts] >> partly. So, uh rather than boosting metabolism, they put you in the uh in that uncomfortable level where your body starts repairing on its own.
(59:14) It's called the hormesis curve where these hot baths and uh the sauna baths and the cold plunges is basically making your body uncomfortable enough so that some uh repair work can start happening. >> Uh it's a very simple way of looking at it. >> So, can do >> but get your foundations right before doing that.
(59:33) Rohan Bopana told me in an interview that one of the reasons why he's able to win a Wimbledon in his 40s is because he does. >> So probably he's got all the foundational blocks right. >> Yeah. >> So if you do that and they actually help. >> Okay. Internet says you can reverse your biological age. >> True. >> How? >> By following the foundational blocks again.
(59:54) [laughter] >> This doctor is not giving me a pill. He's not giving me a hack. He's telling me to do the boring stuff. I like him. If I tell you two things >> for all Indians right to reverse your aging two things get enough sleep >> move from your chairs >> avoid the sedentiness and get enough sleep just two things >> those things can reverse your aging >> yeah but what about uncles who go for morning walks and then have bun maska after that >> forget the banmaska walking in itself is not a very optimal uh exercise. You
(1:00:30) would see a lot of the walkers, they have walkers belly, >> right? Because they have lost muscle. >> Testosterone gradually goes down in men >> and in women it crashes after menopause. Both of those these are very important for your skeletal muscle. >> As soon as you lose your skeletal muscle, your metabolism goes down.
(1:00:54) moment if you don't have enough muscle your metabolism has crashed. Metabolism has crashed meaning then every excess calorie that is going in which your body is not burning up is going to go into your visible fat. >> So walking is not the greatest form of cardio. >> The greatest form of cardio for longevity purposes is still racket sports >> because it has a hit component to it.
(1:01:18) It also has a community component to it. >> That is where I would put it. >> Yeah. It also has a no phone component to it. >> Yes. >> Component. You can't play rackets for the phone. >> Walk you can do. >> You can do. >> Yeah. Yeah. Treadmill also you can do. People keep watching. >> But walking is excellent for you to slip out your surrenderiness.
(1:01:36) >> Uh if you can just get out and walk. So the CEOs who come to me also I tell them if you get a phone call >> take it while walking around your office that gets your mandatory 7 7,000 or 8,000. Otherwise you're just glued to the chair. Like I told you, chair shouldn't become your graveyard. >> M h okay.
(1:01:56) Uh there is a lot of chatter on supplements and there are two kinds of people. People who are obsessed with it and others who don't think any of it. Could you give me your understanding of what supplements are say hero supplements that every Indian needs and what are some of those which can be trashed? The >> supplements can be divided into three categories.
(1:02:19) A is the ones that absolutely work on you if you have a deficiency. >> B is the ones that work on some people may not work for most of the people. So we'll put it a masamos 50/50. >> The third category of supplements is the one it can kill you sort of supplements. >> Okay, >> let's start from the third category. M >> your detox te the fat burners and uh the the so-called ones uh which have a lot of uh stuff that can spike your heart rate that can damage your liver.
(1:02:51) During CO a lot of patients started taking this herbal supplements because they thought it'll avoid COVID and then ended up with liver transplants because the liver got knocked off. >> Yeah. >> We had a name for it. We called it drug induced liver injury or dilly. >> Yeah. That is a category three supplements. >> Any popular ones that people are popping these days? >> In category three? >> Yeah.
(1:03:13) >> Fat burners. >> Fat burners are the number one cause of arythmia, uh sudden cardiac death because they are overloaded with caffeine and a lot of other herbs which erratically spike your heart rate. >> Yeah. >> Because uh the caffeine is supposed to boost up your metabolism so that you burn your fat.
(1:03:35) But people don't understand while they're burning their fat, they're also killing their heart, >> stressing their heart, >> stressing their heart. >> So the fat burners is the number one category people should stay away from. No go. >> Okay. >> No go. >> Second one, >> the in between category are those supplements that can work in few people like magnesium, >> like creatin.
(1:03:55) >> Creatin also I'll put it category two. Uh I will tell you why >> because uh if you're regularly working out beyond a certain age, >> it's got a really good volume of evidence behind it. >> It means most people can take it. But I would say that a lot of people are trying to actually uh it doesn't cause any harm.
(1:04:16) So category 2 supplements don't cause harm. >> The category 3 supplements can cause harm, can kill. Category 2 supplements can work well in certain people >> like women, people who want to build muscle from scratch or people are beyond a certain age where they want to increase the repair rate of their muscles. >> So those >> for women for brain fog.
(1:04:35) >> Yeah. So that also it works. So it it works in certain people. >> Okay. >> All right. So there an omega >> those are all in the middle category where it works for some people and may or it doesn't cause harm. >> Okay. [snorts] So magnesium also falls in that category. Category one are supplements. >> Why do you say magnesium falls in that category? I thought it works for everybody.
(1:04:56) >> So I the the still the gold standard for uh sleep uh abnormalities when you see a sleep medicine doctor is they would initially say all of those things that I told you. Avoid caffeine, avoid a late meal >> and then blue light reduction and then >> cold room. >> Cold room circadian rhythm. Yeah.
(1:05:20) So all of that regular >> routine. >> Beyond that the gold standard is a cognitive behavioral therapy. CBT is what it is called for sleep. >> Many people don't even go to a sleep medicine. They just buy magnesium off the and pop it out. So which is why the pathway of care >> for sleep deprivation >> goes in this pattern >> and melatonin is a strict nogo at least not on your own unless uh I would say magnesium and melatonin both I would say to people out there only take it if your sleep medicine doctor decides that it is the right thing for you because most of
(1:05:53) you can do without it as well you you need >> people are popping melatonin left right and center it's like a candy these days >> I would say you shouldn't go there because it is it also falls in the second category >> but it can mess up a lot of your circadian rhythm. >> Yeah. >> Because melatonin is the biological flock.
(1:06:10) >> Yeah. >> You can't go and tinker around with it and it should not be something uh supplement industry is also quite unregulated because it's called it's it's it's it's neither here nor there and also falls under exactly influencers keep promoting that for some reason or the other and people easily can buy and pop it.
(1:06:27) >> Okay. I think they should come some regulation should come wherein like the supplements should be >> much needed regulated >> much needed should come under pharma maybe yeah you'll get a quality check and you'll also have that okay but first category >> the first category is which is quite useful to a number of people >> uh majority of these people benefit from these supplements >> and they are boring >> because I'm talking about iron folic acid supplements for pregnant women >> I'm talking about B12 supplementation
(1:06:53) for vegetarians I'm talking about vitamin D supplementation for the large percentage of Indians who are extremely deficient in vitamin D pouring. >> So that is the number one supplement because these are proven to work. >> B12 for vegetarians is you're saying gold standard one has to do. Should one look for something in the label if they're buying B12.
(1:07:14) >> So I would say B12 deficiency first check for your B12 levels and homoysteine levels if you're vegetarian. >> If you're deficient again consult your doctor. they will prescribe the right dose >> and uh unlike the omega-3s, B12 supplementations, we don't have a problem. We get some good uh brands and because it is also by prescription by the doctor.
(1:07:33) >> Yeah. Yeah. It's medical grade. >> We don't have any problems there. >> Yeah. Vitamin D you say take. >> Yes. >> A very famous doctor, liver doctor was on this podcast saying vitamin D is the healthy. >> Yes. >> A lot of doctors have not agreed with him. >> So >> what's your reason >> from the longevity perspective? So there are two ways of looking at vitamin D.
(1:07:55) So whether it can take care of something really acute like we talked about omega3, right? >> So omega3 from an inflammation perspective or an aging perspective makes sense. >> Omega3 from a pure cholesterol lowering perspective or triglycerine lowering perspective. You may need a concentrated EPA supplement which is not the same medical grade which is not the same as the additive that we getting.
(1:08:18) >> So doctors look at it in two ways. M >> one is is this proven to fix an acute problem. >> The second part of it is what I look at is this not not looking at it as whether it fixes heart attacks or it cures diabetes whether it reduces inflammation whether it which is proven to reduce the rate of aging or inflammation in people.
(1:08:43) >> So vitamin D >> if I look at it it is it is not a surefire way. You can't say vitamin D if you supplement people are going to have less heart attacks. But there are studies which say if you supplement vitamin D your endothelial function is going to be better >> which means your inflammation inflammatory markers are going to be better.
(1:09:00) >> So which is why I would say vitamin D still has a solid body of evidence behind it from this perspective >> which brings me to uh the last segment here. >> I want to uh you to talk to me about preventive screening. >> Right. One of the biggest longevity things are that what kind of screening can you do again in your 30s and your 40s so that your 80s and what you're saying 90s could be actually better and not you know not very dependent on other people or medicines for that matter.
(1:09:29) >> What are your again top three layers in which you should look at screening? >> Right. I would say people in the 30s, people in the 40s and people in the 50s and 60s for each uh decade the tests that they have to take slightly vary or they add on. If you're younger like I told you fasting insulin along with your liver function test, renal function tests and then the basic uh complete blood count >> and HBO and C they sort of give the picture.
(1:09:58) >> When you say younger you mean 20s or you mean 30s? 30s is young. >> 30s is young. Definitely 40s is young now. >> 40s. [laughter] >> Okay. [gasps] >> So as in women particularly when you cross the age of 30 you should look at um cervical cancer screening >> cuz that is a second leading cause of cancer deaths in women and is entirely preventable.
(1:10:20) >> S it has not become a part of our immunization protocol from time immemorial. Now only now the government is looking at it. It is still not become widespread which means many women even after marriage they are entirely unaware that a HP vaccine exists >> or it can be taken or it can bring down their chance of getting it.
(1:10:39) >> So HP vaccination is a must. Papsmears are a must. >> It regularly [snorts] takes papsme to see if there's any early precancer changes in the cervix. >> When you say regularly you mean annually. >> Annually is good enough uh for your uh >> like a birthday protocol. >> Exactly.
(1:10:57) That is what I say because for us it has to be a ritual. >> We buy new clothes on uh birthdays. We treat ourselves to a vacation but unless it's a ritual we will not do it. So all I'm saying is every birthday month >> let it be the gift best gift that you can give to yourself. >> Not a new phone >> but a entire spanking new preventative health check in the best place that you can go to.
(1:11:18) >> Okay. So 30s you've said is done. So 40 is what you do. >> So mamograms are a must for women again. M so whatever you did in your 30s that plus a mamogram. >> Exactly. So mamogs and uh mamograms again to detect that's a x-ray mamogram that comes after 40. >> Before 40 is a sonomogram where we don't subject you to x-rays but to ultrasound.
(1:11:38) So after 40 that becomes an x-ray mamogram. >> Again it has to be uh uh done regularly. >> Um once we find some abnormality it's easier to fix. >> Okay. >> And then colon cancer screening starts coming after the 50s and 60s. >> Okay. And in men prostate cancer screening starts after the 50s and 60s wherein you have to check prostate specific antigen or PSAs.
(1:11:59) >> Beyond that when it comes to um longevity perspective >> there are number of tests that have come >> like uh grip strength is one of that >> and there are these special labs that have come that measure your V2 max >> that actually score you on your uh fall prevention. There is a test called as a sit rice test without using your hands or the sides of the leg.
(1:12:28) >> So Brazilian researchers found that if you can do a sit rice test your lifespan and health span are going to be really good. >> Most of us fail the test because a we have muscle weakness or b we don't have the flexibility. >> Yeah. So that is the one and so there are these longevity tests that we can do as well >> and cognition >> because most of the time we we fail to say uh understand that cognition is also a very important part of aging which we lose.
(1:12:54) >> We are more concerned about uh losing muscle and we say lift dumbbells but what we forget why we are lifting those dumbbells. [laughter] >> That is what happens to people as they age because the brain becomes uh slow. >> So the tests there are number of tests that are there. I I've also prescribed a couple of websites in the book where people can go and take those tests to see >> we'll put them in the chapters.
(1:13:17) >> Fantastic. So how how well they are performing as compared to peers of their age. How good is their cognition? >> So is it perfect or what we call as mild cognitive impairment >> or is it to the point where we call it dementia? So mild cognitive impairment that is recoverable >> whereby you can still you know recover by acquiring new skills or doing certain things.
(1:13:42) >> In fact in the book you've written this it's called retirement is the fastest way to age because if you don't use it you lose it right. >> Okay so which brings me to the last segment. This entire book can be put in a nutshell by the 21 rules that you've listed for long life. Can you just state that I think the fundamentals through this podcast you've understood if we were to make this checklist of 21 what would that be? >> So I made the chapter primarily for people who skipped to the last which is which is me of course because I read
(1:14:12) every single paper from the last page. >> You want to read it? >> Yeah of course that would be lovely. >> Huh? >> So rule number one is walk. >> We need to do 800 8,000 steps a day >> and which is why after every meal if we can walk we'll get very close to those 800 8,000 steps. It also lowers the glucose because once you activate the muscles >> then the sugar spikes go down.
(1:14:33) When the sugar spikes go down the insulin spike also goes down. >> Lift weights. Um there are many many ways of resistance training. Some people use bands, some people use weights. >> Some people can even do body weight exercises which is called calisthenics because we [clears throat] need to build the muscle because muscle is our insurance against aging.
(1:14:51) >> That is eat protein. Indians have diets which are extremely protein deficient. We didn't touch on that. Maybe we should go into that. >> Yeah. Yeah. So we need to make sure every single meal is proportioned. So it is good in a way because it is unprocessed but we need to also structure it so that the protein is more >> and we need to follow a particular sequence when eating >> which is VPC >> veggies first protein second carbs third.
(1:15:17) >> Even if you go to a buffet if you eat the veggies first it forms a nice mesh which sees the protein and the carbohydrate that goes in after that >> which means the sugar spike is going to be and a full podcast on this. Yeah. Yeah. >> Respect the sunset. >> So sad bajay kakam >> dasbaj in your bed >> that is respect the sunset.
(1:15:36) >> Basically no social life. [laughter] >> No I I don't know that's a different podcast altogether. >> Sleep is a non-negotiable. >> Uh we do tend to sleep shorter as we age. >> Maybe 8 hours is is is something that 35 year olds should look at. Seven hours is what 55 years look should look at. >> It reduces. >> It reduces as we age.
(1:15:59) >> Oh, is it? >> It reduces as we age. So 8 hours for a 35y old, we can apply the same rule to somebody in their 60s or 70s. >> But you should sort of understand that it goes down by an hour or so every two decades >> and try to hit that as >> sugar is a recreational drug. Most of the most of the problems that we have is because of these colas and fructose laden syrups everywhere we find sweeteners and even in kids and um >> hidden sugar.
(1:16:26) >> Exactly. >> So even sauce I I call sauce as liquid jam in one of my chapters because it's got the same amount of sugar that jam has. >> But we wouldn't think of sauce as jam. >> Yeah. >> So try to cut down the refined sugar intake as much as possible. If you're [snorts] really sweet tooth like me, >> try to have a banana after a meal or chew on some dates.
(1:16:48) That works very well. >> Sugar is recreational drug. >> Okay. >> Avoid the social poisons which is smoking and alcohol. >> Uh then try to do the oil change. >> Uh seed oils har >> or bring in >> we've spoken about that. Huh. >> Hydrate >> 2 to three liters of water every day. And the best way you can get there is by starting your day with 500 ml.
(1:17:11) >> So >> starting your day with 500 ml, how does that work? Get up. >> And if you drink 500 ml immediately, that becomes a ritual. >> So even if you're skimping on water intake because >> I thought drinking too much water at one go will just get it out of your body. >> Not really. So when you wake up, it's you're already you haven't had water for like what 8 to 10 hours.
(1:17:32) >> Oh, because you're parched. >> Yes. >> So have start with 500 ml. It also contributes to the two to three uh liters of your count in a day. >> Got it. Got it. >> Get some sun as much as possible. >> Sunlight is great for vitamin D. Sunlight is free. >> But we bother too much. >> If AQI lets it penetrate. >> Yeah.
(1:17:51) We bother too much about our skin and we don't get out enough is what I feel. >> Okay. >> I have known people who prefer to run indoors and not on the beach >> who prefer to stay indoors. >> I think we should probably get the sun. The sun is the greatest thing that we have. >> [snorts] >> Sit on the floor. Even if you're watching TV, sit cross-legged on the floor. Improves the mobility.
(1:18:12) >> Floss every day because the bacteria that have been found in diseased gums >> are also the very same bacteria that are found in plaque buildup in diseased coronary arteries. >> Extremely it goes there. So the bacteria that cause causes gingivitis or periodontitis or the gum problems that we have >> they have an indirect u association with inflammation.
(1:18:36) >> They get into the bloodstream. They are also the same bacteria that have been found in the plaque buildup that we have in the coronary arteries that are diseased. >> It's going from your mouth to your heart. >> Yes. It goes into the bloodstream and it ends up there and it causes the plaque or aggravates the plaque.
(1:18:51) >> There is a association between the both. M >> so the better your oral health the better your heart health. >> M that is why gum bleeding is seen as a sign. >> Yes that is a that is a sign of infection as well. >> Detox your environment in that you throw away the non-stick pan and stop heating food in plastic containers.
(1:19:10) Stop living in Delhi. I can't say that right because the AQI is pretty bad here. But yeah you got to have u I mean uh good air air purifiers at workplace or at home. >> Be a learning machine. Retirement is the fastest way to age because never stop using a brain. Learn a new language. Play a new game. >> Find a new date. I don't know.
(1:19:30) >> Find [laughter] a new >> solve a new problem. >> That works. See what if you're single. I say I say in one of the chapters, uncles uh die earlier than aunties if you're single cuz men >> uh are not meant to be single. We we don't have too many social butresses that can keep us. >> So we are too much over reliant on our spouses.
(1:19:49) >> H >> so yeah. So maybe daddy shadi actually works. >> It actually works. Maybe it gives them a new purpose in life. You never know. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> 16 is pick up a racket because that's the best cardio exercise I have as a prescription. It could be any of that. >> Have a 3:00 a.m. friend. You shouldn't get up at 3:00 a.m.
(1:20:07) But if you do god forward for some emergency, >> have someone to call. >> Exactly. >> Manage your stress actively and mindfully >> because stress. We need to find ways to deal with stress. >> Ditch the comparisons and the comparative anxiety, comparative misery. >> We have to leave. And then we try to synthesize our own happiness by being satisficers.
(1:20:33) >> Whatever we have is the best. This day is the best day >> kind of thing. And the birthday protocol protocol, we talked about it. Every year >> get a blood test done. >> Yeah. which will tell you all the parameters that you have to do at your decade >> and that will give you the exact way place where you stand and you can work on that.
(1:20:53) >> Yeah. >> Next is consistency is greater than intensity. This is this is true for the people who suddenly wake up and then go jogging want to I want to run marathon in a month or I want to do high rocks in a month so that I can put cute Instagram [snorts] res doesn't work that way. It is a journey and uh every part of the journey it has to become a ritual like we don't think twice before waking up and brushing.
(1:21:18) Similarly, we should not think twice before heading out to play twice a week or lifting weights twice. It has to become a ritual. >> Then it becomes a part of us and it doesn't it ceases to be a chore. >> It becomes uh something that we do enjoyably >> and that is what is going to make us live till 100. >> H happily till 100. >> Happily till 100.
(1:21:36) >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. On that note, so this is take it or trash it longevity edition. Okay, are you ready? >> Yes. >> Creatine monohydrate, >> take it. >> Vitamin D, >> take it. >> Omega3, >> take it. >> Magnesium, >> trash it. >> Probiotics, and this includes stuff like derolac, interoggerina, all of those. >> Take it episodically whenever you have uh you don't need it every day.
(1:22:06) >> Don't need it every day. Okay, now this is one very uh famous with longevity experts. NMN, NR, and NAD+. >> Crush all of it. >> Are you serious? >> Absolutely serious. >> There are like Instagram channels which only talk about their NAD+ routines. >> Yes. I think I'm I'm being very clear here when I say we don't have enough body of evidence to say it reverses longevity in a large number of people.
(1:22:35) >> Okay. Okay. This one is interesting. Rwerrol. Am I saying that right? >> Yeah. >> Trash it. >> Spermidine. >> Trash it. >> Okay. Bourberine. [sighs] >> Trash it. >> What was that long pause for? >> It It can work in some people, but metformin works better. >> Metformin works better for longevity. Do explain. >> Yeah.
(1:23:04) of people with PCOS and it it reduces your insulin resistance. Basically, it makes the cells more receptive. >> So, there are a lot of there there's a significant body of evidence that is emerging that says the cheapest longevity drug that people can take is metformin. Again, on a doctor's advice >> um it's not just reserved for diabetics >> um is what they're saying.
(1:23:25) So, it's better than bourberin. Bourberin is nature's metformin with a lot more side effects. So I always tell people you know um 50% of alopathic drugs are from nature. So this is nature 2.0 sub [laughter] better and without the side effects. >> Brilliant Hindi 10 on 10 for that. Okay. Okay. Next one. Myininoettol >> trash it.
(1:23:49) >> Co-enzyme Q10. >> Yeah take it. >> Okay. Protein powder [snorts] >> take it. >> Ashwagandha. >> Trash it. >> Multivitamin or B complex? Expensive urine, trash it. >> Okay. Kuramin >> may work and may work in few people >> but uh no clear evidence to say it actually I mean reverses it can help in people who are in who are inflamed to an extent.
(1:24:14) >> Okay. Celia m h m h m h m h m h m h m h m h m h m husk [snorts] >> some days but not every day. >> Okay. >> No harm though. No harm though. >> Okay. Collagen powder >> may mildly help your skin. >> Okay. not help with your longevity. >> Okay. Melatonin, >> trash it. >> And the last one, GLP1 weight loss drugs.
(1:24:38) Do they make you live longer? >> They help obese people live longer because otherwise they would have died of the visceral fat and overweight and all the NCD complications that brings if they cannot lose weight by conventional means. They are a boon to those people because they are going to live 20 or 25 years longer. >> Uh which they would not have if these things are not there.
(1:24:58) So GLP drugs work very well for them. Only problem is that muscle mass is disproportionate to the weight loss. So these people have to make an extra effort to uh build the muscle. The problem with them is now you say you suddenly give them GLP drug and they find that they losing weight, they're going to be even less um um um you know inclined to go to the gym.
(1:25:23) >> Yeah. So the the problem that doctors have is when we give the JP, we don't we tell them you need to hit the gym every single day. >> Yeah. Okay. That brings me to the end of this podcast. It's been very nice. Like I said in the beginning, Dr. Naveen, this is a playbook. I'm going to keep this.
(1:25:38) I'm going to keep referring to this for lots of stuff because it's covered a lot of basics that I think the doctors do not have the time to explain and honestly a lot of them don't even know because I don't think this is something that is taught in medicine. So why don't you leave us with your longevity routine? Why don't you give us quick tips on what is it that you do? >> Okay.
(1:25:57) >> And how long do you think you're going to live? [laughter] >> Let's make a prediction. >> So uh going by the national averages. I think I'm going to live up to 90. >> Okay. >> That could change the next decade. It could it could get extended to 100 as well. We don't know. The national average is that by the time we are 60 or 70 >> the life expectancy is going to be easily 90.
(1:26:15) >> What I do is I do intermittent fasting. Hm. How many hours? >> Uh, sometimes it's 16 hours as well. Sometimes it's 17 hours as well. Okay. >> I stop eating by 7. >> I try to hit the bed by 10:00, but it's not always possible. Sometimes it goes up to 11, >> but yellow light in the room. >> Uh, cold environment.
(1:26:35) >> The most important thing is no caffeine after. >> Yeah. And your next meal in the morning is >> 11 11:30. >> Ah, >> 7 to 11:30. >> Yeah, >> that's what I do. >> Yeah. Um uh I play raet sports >> and then I work out twice a twice a week with resistance uh with gym. >> So um recent uh studies say that even 2 days of resistance training is good enough.
(1:27:01) >> Good enough. >> So 2 days of resistance training where you get about 60 minutes or 120 minutes >> that is good enough. >> And the cardio target about 120 minutes a week >> which is probably two or three playing sessions. >> If you're having fun do more. Yeah. >> But as you >> What about your protein powder? >> I don't take protein powder because I make sure that I get my protein from my meal.
(1:27:23) Every single meal I [clears throat] try to visualize the meal. >> Huh? >> Protein >> around the protein. >> Around the protein. >> So what are you having for breakfast? >> So I have a three egg omelette. >> Okay. >> I start with that. >> All whole eggs. No egg. >> All whole eggs. >> Okay. Three eggs in the morning. >> Okay.
(1:27:39) [laughter] So afternoons is a bit of a challenge because the veggies are there in the afternoon but then uh the protein isn't there. M >> so what I do is I uh I have uh protein richch yogurt which I use for my curd rice which has got higher percentage of protein >> or uh paneer or one of those things >> and in the evening again I consciously try to make sure that some protein sources there from the house >> if it's tofu tempe or chicken or egg >> so you are also doing uh 1 g of protein your body weight >> yes >> okay I try to get about 60 to 70 uh or
(1:28:18) more than that actually because I weigh 90. >> Yeah. >> So I try to get about 90 but I may [clears throat] fall short here and there but it's okay. I don't obsess I don't obsess over it. >> I just make sure in my mind if I look at my plate >> was quarter quarter half rule >> half is veggies quarter is protein quarter is cup.
(1:28:36) >> Okay. >> So if you can visualize a plate as a pie chart >> every plate >> and imagine is meto >> quarter is protein quarter is cup half is veggies. Yeah. >> And I try to sequence it. Try to eat veggies >> then protein then carb. Not always possible. >> Yeah. >> Whenever possible whenever possible. >> Nothing else you're doing.
(1:28:55) What have you not written in the book? >> I stay happy. I don't nurse grudges. So I think that is a key thing. So if if we think about what went wrong 2 years before >> and keep worrying about I live that day. >> You forgive. >> I forgive. So if I if if I don't remember uh something that wrong that's been done, then you don't have to fret about it or worry about it or keep a revenge scorecard in you.
(1:29:21) >> Yeah. >> Live that day. Live happily. >> Yeah. [snorts] >> All right. Thank you so much. But I think that's all the time we've got. But uh yeah, thank you. Thank you for coming in. Thank you for sharing all those insights. And there you go. The first longevity blueprint for India. Let's see how long we all live.
(1:29:41) See you in the next one. Thank you very much. >> No, no. Start with start with him. How old do you think he is? >> Uh-huh. >> Late 20s. >> Early 20s, late >> early 20s and late 20s. >> Late 20s is what I [music] >> 25. >> 28. >> So, not too bad. >> Really [laughter] getting it. I'm not asking him. How How old do you think she is? >> Late 30s.
(1:30:05) >> HE CHANGED HIS ANSWER. >> YEAH. [screaming] THIS IS take [laughter] two, by the way. Okay, we missed recording the first one. Okay, our handsome cameraman. [gasps] >> Well, I think I suppose he is um again uh late 20s, [music] but aging better than him. >> Just because he has muscles, >> which is true. >> Give me your age.
(1:30:28) >> 24. >> Okay, I got that a bit wrong. >> Yeah, >> you >> Yeah. >> Okay. I would put it at uh late 30s. H and he's right.
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