Inside India’s Biggest Scams | Sudhakar Reddy Udumula | Unscripted with Meghana Reddy
Author Name:Unscripted with Meghana Reddy
Youtube Channel Url:https://www.youtube.com/@UnscriptedMeghana
Youtube Video URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci9rnTQxYjE
Title: Inside India’s Biggest Scams | Sudhakar Reddy Udumula | Unscripted with Meghana Reddy
Author Name: Unscripted with Meghana Reddy
Description: What does it really take to uncover a scam?
On this episode of Unscripted, Meghana Reddy sits down with investigative journalist Sudhakar Reddy Udumula to talk about his career investigating scams, corruption, organised crime, illegal mining, human trafficking and environmental crimes.
From the PNB scam and Panama Papers to his investigations into Red Sanders smuggling, Sudhakar shares what happens behind the headlines, how investigations are built and what it takes to uncover stories that powerful people may not want told.
Watch the full conversation on Unscripted with Meghana Reddy.
⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Introduction
01:45 Who is Sudhakar Reddy Udumula?
04:20 How the investigation began
07:15 The first major scam
10:40 Money trail revealed
14:05 People behind the operation
17:30 How the scam worked
21:10 Shocking evidence
24:45 Investigation challenges
28:20 Political and business connections
32:15 Major revelations
36:40 What investigators discovered
40:25 The biggest unanswered questions
44:10 What happened to the accused?
47:30 Key takeaways
#SudhakarReddyUdumula #investigativejournalism #unscripted #journalism #MeghanaReddy
Transcript:
(00:00) Hyderabad I got a call saying at 3:00 a.m. in the morning. So there was a murder south central railway family loan. Next ro story is that woman was asking him to have a proper haircut and scolding that was the motive killed them. So moving back to Red Sanders, [music] you spent most of your life >> [music]
(00:43) >> film actors lers who was involved. There was a human trafficking, human smuggling, human trafficking. I was thinking a human hair. So it went and took me to the most posh place of Jubilee Hills. entire house that flats worth of 10,000 cr. >> The biggest thing is Panama file s the largest financial [music]
(01:31) if you followed Indian investigative journalism over the last three decades. Teli, Panama Papers, PNB, Kali Janadan, Reddi, Red Sanders, the Ukraine war, the biggest stories of our generation [music] and somewhere in the reporting almost always the same name, Sudhaka Reddi Umola, investigations editor, Times of India, 29 years on the beat.
(01:57) He started his life studying microbes in the lab. He ended up studying something far more dangerous, money and the people who move it. Today for the first time the stories behind the stories. This is unscripted. Hello sir, thank you so much for joining us on unscripted with me now. Welcome to the podcast sir.
(02:17) Uh how are you today? >> Thank you Magna for inviting me here. I'm glad we'll have a nice discussion. >> Yes sir. So you have been to a lot of interviews sir ki I want to start from the beginning me first case guri from microbiology degree to a crime scene can you tell us about your first case sir >> so I'm a microbiologist basically by education microbiology lab college I'm I was streaking in petri plates that's called in petri dishlo we are growing some dand of fungus in that bite.
(02:58) So our time low you know everybody has got a ureka moment in their life. So I was thinking on that. So that was my ureka moment where I thought um cup of tea. So my cup of tea is a bigger thing. So I have to get out of and see the world and report the world. That was the day I decided I have to become a journalist.
(03:27) Then I I joined Inadu as a stringer. Then came to Dean Chronicle as a crime reporter. Crime reporting first. Very interesting. So Hyderabad first Hyderabad. So I got a call. I was a crime reporter then with Tekken Chronicle. Just young and bing crime reporter. I was just 22 year old then. So then uh what happened? I got a call saying at 3:00 a.m.
(03:55) in the morning. So there was a murder. >> Okay. >> Uh in the South Central Railway family. >> So you see today yesterday there was officer wife was murdered. >> This case is also was also similar. So I was having a bike. So I took my bike and went to the crime scene. It was far off in Hyderabad is not that much developed or railway tracks that among that area.
(04:30) Um the bodies were found charred. >> Okay. >> All the four four of them husband who is a GM in South Central Railway and wife children also. >> Okay. So that was the first crime scene uh in the sense when I joined Aken Chronicle a crime scene and major crime scene I'll talk about my first crime scene also. So it was like continuous monitoring continuous talking to sources.
(04:58) Okay. So next we had a story everybody uh how the servant or help killed South Central Railway family. Next what happened uh next ro story is um haircut led to them murder triggered the murder and haircut and that woman was asking him to have a proper haircut and scolding that was the motive. So this he got offended all the time and u killed them by taking petrol getting all those.
(05:39) So that was my headline a different headline than other newspapers. It taught me a lot that first crime scene how to be up to date fast. Uh TV it was not print. So we updated I updated a copy every half an hour till it went to the print till 3:00 a.m. first crime scene. Very interesting. I worked when I was stringing for Inadu in Vijayada doctor wife. Doctor killed his wife.
(06:25) injection. So kills. So I have I went to the first crime scene. I have to tell you this because I used to read lot of spy novels. Okay. There is something called in Telugu shadow muabu all these are famous in generation and you guys are novel booklets. Okay. >> So those novels I used to read in which there is a character called bullet.
(07:01) >> Okay. >> There is a character called shadow. These people are Indian uh agents [clears throat] >> who go to Pakistan and kill them and do them all those kill them bad people there. >> Okay. >> And come back and all those things. So I was very inspired both by those uh uh things.
(07:20) So that made me like crime low like >> interest a curiosity inquisitiveness. So wherever I go to crime scene I observe it more like a cop more than a cop sometimes. So that's how it happened and uh it worked out well in further also time and I was full-time crime reporter for more than 10 years. Yes. Later on I went to health, environment, political, legal and lot of other things, science particular.
(07:50) If I go to a crime scene, telephone based crime detection, IP based crime detection, human intelligence, human intelligence, human human intelligence. So because there is something called modi okay the way the crime is committed so I'm so well with that modi by seeing the crime scene for instance Okay.
(08:47) Okay. They have their own suppose they carry the blade. Uh so there are lot of modes the way they commit. So for example they attack assault woman. So all those things I've I've seen that I can tell whether Because there is something called
(09:30) diatams in so I learned a lot on forensic science, forensic medicine. So crime scene the first crime scene there are multiple crime scenes I visited like terror blast Hyderabad all major terror blast mist blast all high-profile cases. So I've seen a lot. So microbiology I should have just stayed with microbiology any moment because there is a purpose here.
(10:07) So we are writing against rowdy cheaters I have written against contract killers politicians who are doing or bureaucrats who are doing wrong. It is not just crime alone. It is corruption anti-corruption. So scams, busting and all those things. So there is a purpose you're doing good for the society and um I always tell this people used to call earlier cup of tea and evalu they're calling it's find your dopamine.
(10:34) I always tell this find your dopamine. >> Okay, >> people mostly get dopamine by watching reals these days. But the real dopamine is like somebody does good. For example, you have started this and you are doing good work that's you're finding. So likewise I find my dopamine by writing a great story investigative story.
(11:00) I find my dopamine. So that's how I willingly changed and uh but in between there was pressure from the family in 2000 that uh you go Y2K problem which there were a lot of opportunities abroad in United States and elsewhere. So you take MCU while working master of computer applications but I didn't pursue it also RC while I was working with inadu as a central editor he's an is coaching expert he came to inadu in search of me because I was writing in inadu editorial article sudhakar mulani so he came yuru and he
(11:39) we were he came and I went to receive him in the lift he was asking who is sudhakar I was just 20 21 and he said hey you look uh so angry are you writing these articles honey so but he also told me why don't you pursue uh IPS um entrance civil civils entrance so he gave me books free >> so but uh I was teaching there sometimes international affairs so I didn't pursue it so always it was consistent once I took that decision to take up uh journalism >> yes so you stopped Inado journalism school in 1997.
(12:18) Um but you know school you mostly learn frameworks or theoretical experiences can when you were put on field they didn't teach you how it was like to knock on a grieving family's door or a murderer uh opposite marti I'm sure they didn't teach you all that how was it sir how is it different one thingard journalism is a school is a great school where best of the best journalists now in Telugu states have come from that school now they're in different uh there some of them are in Saki some of them are in English papers
(12:53) and all those things so always uh it's a better school when compared to lot of universities there are a lot of practicals also done there but mostly what we learn is on the ground while working so it is very sensitive particularly dealing with the victims >> as you said uh we need a story we need to find out what happened.
(13:20) We need the human interesting angle. There were lot of instances where we went to terror blast with [gasps] but there is always a code of ethics and ethical concerns. Some don't follow some follow because we have seen some visuals earlier where one TV channel goes uh jubile's blast you know there was cheruri >> want to kill paral rai and moan babu actor moan babu and paral ravi were going in that car and that so one TV channel while that fellow lost all his limbs going and asking for his coat or bite bite >> so It happens this very insensitive but
(14:02) we balance it. >> There is always we need to get the story. So victims grieving. So we should uh we should not be always believe we should not be part of the story. But sometimes we should empathize with them and go get the real facts and we should be unbiased even victims also because there is always in journalism or anything there is always heads and tails.
(14:34) So accused so but we used to it was like learned on while working. [clears throat] Yes. So interestingly there was victims there were instances accused I think you know there were lot of instances there was a lady down in Hyderabad who came and uh attacked our office previous office. >> Okay.
(15:04) There was an uh ex uh MLA uh and with all his corporators he came and stage da shouting sudhakar down down and he burnt papers. >> So there was lot of such backlashes comes and um there were one famous actor also came on stage. So this all happens but we we must be highly crime scene. Um so I want to get into the real scams the biggest scams of this generation sir and you are the one who broke them.
(15:38) So starting with Teli uh stamp paper scam which is worth 30,000 cr. So invol so bureaucrats politicians normal people everyone compromised. What made you break the story sir and what was the instant moment in the chayalyan? one of the senior journalists are serious journalists in this part of the world doing good work or whatever possible work but there are many other journalists elsewhere in other parts of the country other parts of the world doing great work I think scam from there is also a web series on teli scam it's one of the major scams I was very keenly
(16:17) involved and got uh nice investigations done because this scam Abdul Kharimi he was printing judicial stamp papers not fake currency usual fake currency print documents fake it's very difficult to so there was always there were cases here and there caught but it is not going to the main guy so when uh the scam came out I was closely following ing these guys.
(16:55) By the time actually he was arrested and put in um Chenchul Gura jail. So he's supposed to stay in Chelura jail but what happened he said I got um heart problem so shift me to with court permission he was shifted to hospital. Okay. With the help of one of the jail officers and with the help of hospital doctors, he is literally on record he is in the jail >> but he goes to Rajani Hotel.
(17:40) Okay. The man who looted this country, the man who uh printed so many fake judicial papers and caused So I went to the hotel >> okay >> and got all those uh um who are staying and all those pictures and all those things. Uh so who stayed and all those things and I written a good great story >> saying how the guy the Keli was staying in Rajani hotel.
(18:18) That is one major story. Then other one is there was a story there was an IPS officer um who went with him to Mumbai >> okay >> in a jet airways so I got hold of those documents and I published a story about the connections of certain IPS officers involved in the case helping Teli and there is one more called guy called risand what are the links so it was lot of IPS officers were exposed >> and one more IPS officer and some inspector were also exposed.
(18:56) That case led to the arrest of that IPS officer. So I was closely following there was sit formed later that sit uh I was also in touch with them. So I got some sources there. So apart from that my independent investigation I went to Pune. There was a jail there is a jail called Ara Jailrishna. He was also a minister at the NTDP then Tudeshan party.
(19:23) He was involved in that scam. He was jailed there. So I go and meet him and get likewise uh it was work of documentation leg work. It was work of going and getting. So major things are um how he was living in hotel, how these IPS officers were involved and other thing is um um how this racket is spread and it was almost 3 months continuous guy was running stories.
(19:53) Then it led to arrest of an IPS officer. >> Okay. >> Then EIP officer Inuka additional SP rank they fight in the jail. So all those because we have got sources we have reported there was a lawyer of Teli called Malesh Ra liars are like they will fight for anybody in the sense so Malesh is a great lawyer >> you know chala senior uh I he's a good friend of mine so we were in touch he fought for them and uh but despite I used to get lot of details and uh there was some one inspector and DSP by name who did a excellent work there. Apart from getting
(20:33) information from the sources investig ground. >> Okay. >> It was a good case and he died later >> of illness. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's one of the top scams. Then volumes >> and the next biggest thing is Panama file sir. [snorts] Uh most the largest financial leak. So documents Hyderabad related people influential names.
(21:16) Did you make a call? How did it feel to spot these names? International Consortium of Investigative Journalist ICI. >> Yes. So I got trained with them in 2016 but they did not have tie up with my organization previous organization DC which I was working but I have personal contacts with them Indian Express North India Express they could able to lay hands on certain people. Okay.
(21:45) >> But this part of Hyderabad when I got access to the offshore database leaks because some people who got all these there are a lot of tax countries you know British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, any tax countries money center, corruption money, illegal money, tax evasion money, India. So I already reported about the tax events and all those things earlier.
(22:18) So details so we have to investigate one by one. So there were big companies but I will tell you yes >> I was shocked [snorts] to see one of the companies owned by uh one of the company director who lives in Africa is a big um u businessman there. His name cropped up in Panama papers saying that he floated using this and he has these companies and he is a director of a company owned by Mukamantria Saiadika company director Unadu.
(22:57) >> So soon after my story of exposing that guy having links with Panama he resigned from that company. the director >> director resigned from that company because this politician is is clever to remove him quickly so that there is no connection left. So then what happened next there was a big who has become MP now his company is also involved it's a big uh company we investigated and some companies dummy companies ground there were address it's all dummy companies suitcase companies briefcase companies they're allies
(23:40) I think we can't it's very difficult to access what are the bank statements but already bad guys >> unknown established evaders violators are involved named in certain other cases we get into that uh we know that these people have done something >> I It has turned into dam though we investigated and found out who are the people involved Indian express there is journalist called Rituarin Iika there is some
(24:25) journalist called shinar jyala they all did good work I did good work as well though we are not so but uh it was very interesting because it's an international investigation transational so you have to get into those databases you have to find correlations it's more a data journalism or online oint investigation so and also physical investigation that was a uh but feeling and I know I was thinking okay this is going to lead to big thing but uh ultimately I think there are lot of big people involved so overall
(25:02) country irrespective of political parties wanted to dewater that and uh whereas invest in several countries have taken action. >> So you mentioned about ICIG and how you're a part of it. So that requires you to keep things at utmost sec how do you deal with it sir and you can't tell anyone not family not your editor so how does it make you feel to keep all the secrets >> and we have to inform the editor keep him informed whatever happening in the country that's because we have to take the decisions based on what the guidance
(25:41) because that's most important protection family But uh secrecy yes unless because if it's if that person [clears throat] is knowing he may counteract and he may destroy the evidence he or she may destroy the evidence or they may try to influence us in a different ways or influence people whoever at the helm of their fies.
(26:06) So secrecy even these days online secrecy is very important. Your your your laptops your phones are to be digitally safe. So we I maintain a lot of digital hygiene and uh do lot of uh there are a lot of techniques to keep yourself away from hackers because there were instances where people tried to hack uh the laptops and mobile phones and all those things and uh we have also got a citizen evidence laboratory.
(26:32) So I got my previous uh uh Android phone checked. >> Uh so there were some intrusions and uh even for Pegasus software which lot of people you know it was is a Israeli software which spies on new phones >> the people do uh okay >> because but now I that's why I moved to Apple phone. >> So so iPhone is far secured. >> Yes.
(27:02) It is not totally secured >> but it's far secured than Android. >> So I always regularly because every year I go to global investigative every two years I go to global investigative journalism conference. I'm I'm a fellow of a global investigative journalism network. It's called Gen. It's the largest investigative journalism network across the world.
(27:21) >> Yes. So we get our phone checked because there is a label and we can also do we know on different I have tweeted long back how to check your phone uh it's a big story how is your um battery extremely heating up is uh are there any blinks >> so what are the permissions you've given all those things are very important so these days it's more digital hygiene Yes sir.
(27:52) >> Um yeah that's uh that's what about uh secrecy. >> So moving to the next big story hair smuggling there's one story and also human trafficking in Telangana. So two are very similar stories where in one story hair smuggle and the other you know human trafficking. So evidences on similar lines document files.
(28:21) So human hair smuggling entirely my investigation it's all I unearthed and following which ED has taken up okay it's a parallel thing even scam is a par thing I'm doing they're doing like this is entirely my investigation human exporters genuine exporterscour airport. So I started digging into export import data.
(28:57) >> Okay, >> that is available on payment and online. Then I started digging into those companies which are the companies expert. There is a company called Naylor exports. I have to tell you this exports. There's a Myanmar guy >> who is a director and a local guy. The real director is a Myanmar guy. >> Okay. >> Myanmar is Bama earlier and why a Myanmar guy is having a company here. So I went to the address.
(29:25) So it is taking me I was thinking a human. So it went and took me to the most posh place of Jubilee Hills. >> Okay. >> All huge buildings, these palatial houses there. I found that address. I was waiting outside as a [clears throat] commoner somewhere far off. Then I was observing who are the people going in coming out.
(29:58) Then um that place entire house that flats full of human hair. Manishi jut. Okay. >> Whole house >> it's not flat. It's a house. Whole rooms >> kind it's a dup. So I was surprised and shocked. So that means what is the value of this human hair? Then we started digging more. It is $60 $100 worth of 1 kg >> and it is 10,000 cr just one guy made.
(30:37) And uh so then um I started writing stories one by one how this na exports runs in this place and how what are the it [snorts] is supposed to be $60 they're only selling giving putting an invoice So they getting money through havala and money money lending apps. Okay. So multiple angles there is a child labor angle woman. Foreign
(31:29) speech. Foreign speech. Foreign speech. Yes. Temples. Okay. But then it goes to these mugglers. Not only Hindus but even Catholics like Gonadala temple, Welankani temple in Nagapatnam in Tamil Nadu. They also offer this ju. So that is called
(32:30) actually but it is used to make chemicals. >> Okay. So it's a black gold. You have to make it tighten. So this has tom export they want to introduce. But
(33:23) one fellow went up to MP candidate also trade and I've seen the fellows with lot of gold wearing these gold men who are in Hyderabad some of them are fake also they are only recent phenomena so they are making big money hundreds of crores 300 scores of business then itself >> so They're legally suffering because these illegal guys let us do the started doing this racketing China.
(34:09) It goes via Myanmar and Bangladesh on land. They lift in air cargo. This human hair waste women. Okay. Wig industry is a huge billion multi-billion dollar industry in China. Europe particularly the black women >> they like to wear wigs. Okay. >> They purchase a lot and film industry also you know a lot of film stars
(34:56) they wear those famous big guys also whom people admire they wear wigs. So $600, $800, $1,000. He makes product and makes lot of money. So I got a friend in in customs you know you have to have when you are investigative journalist friends sources so you know everything what's happening so with that I could able to go there to the borders and okay >> and we talk to people and there is a guy
(35:43) that comes up you talk about But there is a guy called Lucas Mangalana. He is a guy he got family in Myanmar also some of family members. can transport you know he floated he himself made 10,000 crores of money 10,000 >> so when continuous stories human hair smuggling how it's happening the child angle child so I got pictures from Myanmar
(36:30) >> videos from Myanmar those camps original camps where the children are made to do all these things accord child labor tax evasion angaloo companies angaloo and even how havala most of the money uh comes back in havala gold biscuits it is also gold smuggling you know gold smuggling is a big thing in India you know that that film actor Rana something like that also >> lady that woman actor Mhm.
(37:08) >> So gold smugging is a big thing. Every day you get caught in airport from Dubai and other places because Indians like gold a lot. They want to stock it, hold it. Okay. Havala is like you know the cash the black cashes because I went into dug deep into that series that [clears throat] led to ED action enforcement director booked a PMLA case prevention of money laundering act case because what happened I'll tell you this is very interesting so I
(37:52) accompany I is there. So Ed wants to go to morning. Okay. >> So police are waiting. We were waiting with them at the house. We somebody because he's a big man. He's into sports association, religious association. Somebody tips him off. Look. What is he? He is not coming home. Borders poorest borders.
(38:33) You know we have poorest borders with Bangladesh. He's still at large. Very important. So there were took it up very seriously under smuggling whether it is timber smuggling whether
(39:18) it is red sander smuggling sandalwood smuggling wildlife smuggling is age-old >> practice and that's it will continue but it will decrease it will transform. Yeah. So easy. So this human hair smuggling story is one of the good stories in my life which I investigated journalism. I got some awards also internally and also >> on similar lines human trafficking story.
(39:52) Human trafficking human smuggling human trafficking. Okay. Human smuggling America Ecuador Antapo there were people who died at Canada borders. people who die in these forests. Soaki exp one one big one is um to the Myanmar camps cyber slavery enter okay so myanmar there's a golden triangle
(40:37) cyber crime Myanmar lavos um then um these countries there uh were involved in uh Cambodia >> okay we're involved cyber city Cambodian 90% 70% 70 to 90% digital arrests they will call and do all these things first they go through route
(41:32) Okay. illegal cross. So I could able to get the visuals the photographs of crossing all those things how it happens and I've written a series of stories and cyber because I could able to touch get touch with these people who are victims or scamsters and agents network and breaking there's a guy called Rajar that fellow is is arrested later so It was a very good story.
(42:08) >> It is more of a smuggling. Willingly these people went but they were put forced into some of them were beaten up. >> Okay. >> But they are also some of them are partners in the crime human trafficking. Very interesting. human trafficking bonded labor human trafficking. It is not only crossber within the country also.
(42:41) So it happens a lot lot of earlier Russian Ukrainian girls are um human trafficking is also bigger both human smuggling and human trafficking victimies published series of stories series of stories on how Gulf migration illegal migration so it has created a lot of impact protector of immigrants rules pass.
(43:16) So sometimes you need to go into depth you should mostly we don't do much of a string operations but uh you have to get into the documents and people talk to them uh so sometimes it's very risky and tricky. >> Yes sir. So moving back to Red Sanders, you spent most of your life >> working on this 10 12 years that you worked on it.
(43:42) So time people were smuggling people were breaking the forest that you know you're witnessing a forest breakdown 14th century Chinese only that quality is found in the 19th century and once it is
(44:27) political It has become bigger we are witnessing that how so I did lot of investigation dig deep into that and who are the people kingpins there's a guy called sahu he's most wanted by interpol so we tracked him in four countries France law dubai law first property documents. So I even broke a story how he sold a property in Chennai after while investigation.
(45:10) So that uh story went on well and uh exposed sahulami Dubai links film actors links there was a air hostess who was involved Lakshman there was a film producer involved there is a that's why one of my chapter says uh love sex and scandalwood so one of my chapters the Chinese connection chapter how Chinese are taking away how it goes most of the but is a more a fictional movie investigation and real people.
(45:49) So we exposed a lot of people and it is happening today also because that's called red gold music instruments as a journalist of India He gave special codes that is impact of my work. >> Yes sir. Of course he is the instrument in that but notice connections connection
(46:47) but lower level found lot of connections and even media is involved so many people are involved this this is a nexus. So mostly that's an interesting question because I have spent lot of nights and days I walked 28 kilometers up and it's not walking up and down coming down going down. I went traveled with the smugglers.
(47:28) If you see the photographs in my book, police so I've seen all those live and it was very tedious and very high energy >> particularly summer heat expo. Um I also went to lot of places in and around Chennai which are active. >> There is a place in Bangalore also called Kataganali. So very Chennai red hill sani. >> So it was like we go there we quickly talk to people take whatever evidence and come back.
(48:09) So we don't know in one place we were about to be killed. These are all uh we were in I have a assistant also and uh we when we were doing documentary also it was very cumbersome and very uh because we interviewed Gander we interviewed so many people so that documentary become famous and controversial also journalism we have to show our impact we can achieve those kind of things.
(48:48) Yes sir. So most wanted criminals. So as a victim I mean as a witness you were there or as a true investigator a journalist should not be party to any you are only a reporter who reports from outside was not wanted he was already arrested in marishes and he was brought back in that and he brought back he's living a normal life okay facing cases and living a normal life but he was not an open life so we took lot of time to reach out to him.
(49:27) >> Then Sahul Amidi still wanted by Interpol and he's hiding in Dubai. We could able to take we went to Dubai and that fellow He will not speak up. He still wanted we were we will witness to the history. We will witness to the journalism but not to the case. >> Yes. >> Never a journalist should be a party. >> So we should write let the agencies or
(50:12) whoever take >> it's it's not easy to reach them. >> It's not easy to stand up and write. It's difficult. So sir, you're dealing with a lot of criminals and big guys. So I'm sure there are continuous threats. So safety net, how do you keep yourself safe? >> There are a lot of threats, different type of threats. Okay.
(50:36) Physical threats, legal threats and psychological pressure. Psychological pressure everyday dealing with these kind of things. Legal threats. There's [clears throat] something called slap strategic legal uh cases suits against active participation of journalists. journalist in silence defamation faced few cases all those things but I quote but I came out clean because what protects you is we are in the business of truth telling verifiable truth You are safe. And always I tell let lose
(51:30) the truth. It will protect itself. It will also protect you. intention even the biggest safety net is your integrity against criminals or whatever. Then physical threats, drugs investig I don't my weapon is my my pen.
(52:19) My weapon is my integrity or whatever truthfulness. Integrity may be truthfulness. No malified intention and public interest. Always work for the public interest. Whole thing journalism true journalism investigative journalism. Now people are afraid of light not darkness. People who are people in question are people different people are doing good.
(53:07) >> One of the biggest things and recent Ukraine ground. So how is it usually journalist crime reporting it's called reporting initially then crime reporting crime report for long but um I did health environment but I got an opportunity to cover Ukraine war so war correspondent is a bigger thing very big thing >> it's a ultimate journalism law people thing. So I took up the opportunity.
(53:50) My wife knows that. So my kids doesn't know. We I was traveling from here to Frankfurt. >> Mhm. >> From Frankfurt to Wasa, Poland on flightani. We took a I took a car to the borders. From there again another. So I got Ukrainian armed forces because you need it because if you're going from Russian side it is difficult Europe it is more green.
(54:28) Yes. Hoteling suicide drones. Iran made drones given to Russia. >> Yes. So every day it was sleepless nights there. From there we went to warfront like Haku, Dontesk, the big warfront areas, real war. So I was there and so we reported for different angles and I was prepared because war correspondent anything happened you going right into the fight.
(55:13) So I told my wife but she was confident that he will come back also. We lived in Kaian where a journalist from different other countries were all it's all K is buzzling with journalist because but every hour key every four hours key there are attacks and all those things local people so but most dangerous is when you go to the red zone or whatever that zone that where we were there for one week or so but then a definite death.
(55:51) If something bad happens, if a bullet stays sent you, if you if a missile hits you, shelling hits you, it's all so I didn't sleep at all. >> You were scared. >> There is a fear always. But uh it's it it's when you go to when you go to any bombasting when you go because so you get used to it Ukraine. So it is not fear ultimately great experience for a life
(56:37) to go a war and cover it situation we should be careful I was very careful my organization was also very careful and I came back and I survived that war and but imagine about people who were who were killed soldiers who were getting killed both sides it's not good for the society so to make it lighter who is sudhakar sir beyond crime scenes or investigative journalism
(57:23) >> yeah I watch a lot of movies I watch a lot movies on Netflix and Amazon Prime majorly then spy movies espionage movies I also like light romantic movies of Christmas rom romantic movies I like those things I used to write poetry in Telugu >> okay >> it's more of a um like sri I used to like sri and I like films of manatnam Okay.
(57:56) >> My most Mumbai was most I always tell I always tell man my father was a farmer so I came from a village so I from village to I went to 25 countries on their fellowships. I studied in London in University of Westminster and all those things. So I feel take pride of it but Of course, but as a filmmaker, his films then as for the social cost.
(58:36) She is a revolutionary poet. >> Yes. >> Against that bullet theory. But um I do lot of colonies. I transformed one where I lived earlier in San Purra. I worked for the parks. So we developed parks, we developed roads was the chief minister. I worked hard for lake protection encroachments. Even hydra commissioner
(59:20) ranganad was helping. Sjana was helping. So I take help for the common good. Mostly I I like traveling a lot. Luckily I'm traveling on work and conferences. Uh around uh 25 30 countries I think some countries more than so any conferences I'm a global investigative journalism network fellow I'm a Norwegian foundation for investigative reporting scoop fellow I'm a geospatial uh in Amsterdam I went twice geospacecial world forum fellow okay >> on satellite journalism um I recently went to Bhutan to train
(1:00:06) journalist so I went to best great countries Japan also I went and so many countries >> on invitations not with my money but it's both work and seeing around uh so I like traveling a lot going to as a traveler favorite country >> uh favorite country is Japan because I like the tech tradition and uh they have a old religion of Shinto and then Buddhism and then uh they have um tech technology it starts with their commode >> and Yeah.
(1:00:42) Um, I like that there's there's a plane and their seafood and all those things and their longevity. I also like cities like Newark, uh, San Francisco, London. I also like Scotland. I was there and, uh, even Amsterdam. Um, so I traveled Italy, France, everywhere. But some cities make longlasting impressions. Paris is also good, but u I like some of the cities better than that. Even I went to Bosnia.
(1:01:09) so many different countries and I as a speaker as a fellow I'm a cher I was in London for so many months >> and I was lived lived as a learner um with u I worked with as a guardian as a participatory observation I so uh yeah there is a yeah every person can there is always his side of lighter side um I'm also a family man and spend a lot of time with uh my kids and and more importantly um I'm an advocate of free thought, free speech and society of irreligious.
(1:02:01) So I always feel bad about that and uh so and more importantly I train young journalists. I feel students training classe all journalists came so rural contributors forest academy
(1:02:45) so rural so 10,000 people imagine I feel immensely happy about that and the training is almost we touching thousand people on behalf of Google on behalf of US consulate teaching. So I go I teach crime reporting, investigative journalism, media lot, nulsar law, HU I go all universities teachers know teaching is other important thing and the light is I like forest a lot and then I'm a wildlife lover I go uh to the forest and I like I spend lot of time in the forest I also report also that's so work personal and I have a very strong friends maybe
(1:03:33) strong enemies also uh strong friends though I spend a lot of time >> so we have a lot of young viewers and uh to a young budding >> the jenji and millennials >> journalists in general what do you like one takeaway for them >> one takeaway is very simple people think uh money today's criteria biggest criteria is money so first question comes is there a In journalism big answer is no.
(1:04:04) In the sense unless people are doing illegal things, blackmailing, extortions, there are a lot of people who are doing that decent salary or a decent salary, decent ragal over the years. I'm an example. I started with just 300 rupees of stringing. Today I'm getting a very decent salary. So that can be when you work hard and you have you get a name you can create impact on the society.
(1:04:36) So journalism to do something good for the society to learn because I feel they clean our manholes took that as a pill and there are a lot of my cases taken newspaper happiness and justice called me chief justice called me for distributing the checks. So it's a immense happiness it will come and u so you have to come here to create an impact at the same time if
(1:05:25) you're decently doing good work you get decent you get to go and see the world and more importantly you can talk to multiple people you can talk to good guys you can talk to bad guys you can talk to doctors engineers politicians you can see the world I'm not against it at all. I I hate the word also that pop culture and there is no there is no culture like that people want to go and so but don't do bad things because but journalists especially you still journalism is good >> still journalism has got opportunities
(1:06:04) if you're doing the right things if you're uh taking up right path you can go and get and see the world there is something called factchecking so these are all good areas which if you want to pursue but seriously passionate pursue and go for originality because today it's all um mix up I call it information diarrhea so every [snorts] everywhere there is information everybody is doing the same so better focus on some originality original stories even in a era extremely original people will survive >> I always tell extremely original
(1:06:45) thinkers extremely original writers, great original thinkers that's a great original journalist, original stories from the ground will survive. And uh the last question sir, one story that you deliberately killed not because of pressure and another story that you're extremely proud of like >> I'm proud of many stories like what I said just now that farmers I'm proud of like gender like you don't have a toilets in this country even today there is no toilet dignity for the country for the people for the women girls rural people one
(1:07:23) girl ended her life because there is no toilet and mocking the she was mocked by road romeo's so I when I went and worked on story that place has been transformed when child girl child killing happened in Kolkata paridara I did a story it transformed that story led to so there are a lot of good stories to be talked about apart from those scams these are the human interesting stories but story when there is no evidence when we can't prove it in the court of the law we can't go about that uh otherwise every story I don't believe
(1:07:57) story interesting stories um today I wrote about tiger stress uh so I I write small stories to big stories there is no nothing small if it interests readers if it has public interest it is a story I was tracking man tigers also but policy newspaper policy >> that I can't comment on that because it's very sensitive.
(1:08:25) Newspaper policy allows we can write. So because ultimately you have to be in the job to do something good then uh there were certain instances here and there but not because of me because it has been so uh but mostly u I don't stop any story when there is an evidence that's what the problem >> evidence is >> that's what the problem for the people >> cuz I don't get u that's what you can see there are a number of instances >> is there any story right now in Hyderabad particularly >> that people are ignoreing ignoring deliberately and
(1:09:03) some people may say there is an journalist when you emergency time when you are asked to bend the crawler media likewise investigative journalism has become a dying art second thing there is lot of pressure governments and all those things so there are lot of stories that are not being looked into because literally we talk about freedom of expression but in state level or center level or whatever level uh there is anti- that's why people are fighting in west also journalism is not a crime >> there is a rise of uh
(1:09:40) anti-dia they call media as prostitutes and all those things batch and all those things they cause so there are a lot of trollings happen and all those things but even then apart from that yeah there are a lot of stories that are buried >> so It was a very insightful conversation mini and I myself wanted to be an investigative journalist.
(1:10:04) So it is it is an honor for me to be talking to you. Thank you so much for being with us today. >> Thank you very much and uh I wish all the best. We need lot of investigative journalist particularly young women like you. >> Thank you sir.
Author Name:Unscripted with Meghana Reddy
Youtube Channel Url:https://www.youtube.com/@UnscriptedMeghana
Youtube Video URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci9rnTQxYjE
Title: Inside India’s Biggest Scams | Sudhakar Reddy Udumula | Unscripted with Meghana Reddy
Author Name: Unscripted with Meghana Reddy
Description: What does it really take to uncover a scam?
On this episode of Unscripted, Meghana Reddy sits down with investigative journalist Sudhakar Reddy Udumula to talk about his career investigating scams, corruption, organised crime, illegal mining, human trafficking and environmental crimes.
From the PNB scam and Panama Papers to his investigations into Red Sanders smuggling, Sudhakar shares what happens behind the headlines, how investigations are built and what it takes to uncover stories that powerful people may not want told.
Watch the full conversation on Unscripted with Meghana Reddy.
⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Introduction
01:45 Who is Sudhakar Reddy Udumula?
04:20 How the investigation began
07:15 The first major scam
10:40 Money trail revealed
14:05 People behind the operation
17:30 How the scam worked
21:10 Shocking evidence
24:45 Investigation challenges
28:20 Political and business connections
32:15 Major revelations
36:40 What investigators discovered
40:25 The biggest unanswered questions
44:10 What happened to the accused?
47:30 Key takeaways
#SudhakarReddyUdumula #investigativejournalism #unscripted #journalism #MeghanaReddy
Transcript:
(00:00) Hyderabad I got a call saying at 3:00 a.m. in the morning. So there was a murder south central railway family loan. Next ro story is that woman was asking him to have a proper haircut and scolding that was the motive killed them. So moving back to Red Sanders, [music] you spent most of your life >> [music]
(00:43) >> film actors lers who was involved. There was a human trafficking, human smuggling, human trafficking. I was thinking a human hair. So it went and took me to the most posh place of Jubilee Hills. entire house that flats worth of 10,000 cr. >> The biggest thing is Panama file s the largest financial [music]
(01:31) if you followed Indian investigative journalism over the last three decades. Teli, Panama Papers, PNB, Kali Janadan, Reddi, Red Sanders, the Ukraine war, the biggest stories of our generation [music] and somewhere in the reporting almost always the same name, Sudhaka Reddi Umola, investigations editor, Times of India, 29 years on the beat.
(01:57) He started his life studying microbes in the lab. He ended up studying something far more dangerous, money and the people who move it. Today for the first time the stories behind the stories. This is unscripted. Hello sir, thank you so much for joining us on unscripted with me now. Welcome to the podcast sir.
(02:17) Uh how are you today? >> Thank you Magna for inviting me here. I'm glad we'll have a nice discussion. >> Yes sir. So you have been to a lot of interviews sir ki I want to start from the beginning me first case guri from microbiology degree to a crime scene can you tell us about your first case sir >> so I'm a microbiologist basically by education microbiology lab college I'm I was streaking in petri plates that's called in petri dishlo we are growing some dand of fungus in that bite.
(02:58) So our time low you know everybody has got a ureka moment in their life. So I was thinking on that. So that was my ureka moment where I thought um cup of tea. So my cup of tea is a bigger thing. So I have to get out of and see the world and report the world. That was the day I decided I have to become a journalist.
(03:27) Then I I joined Inadu as a stringer. Then came to Dean Chronicle as a crime reporter. Crime reporting first. Very interesting. So Hyderabad first Hyderabad. So I got a call. I was a crime reporter then with Tekken Chronicle. Just young and bing crime reporter. I was just 22 year old then. So then uh what happened? I got a call saying at 3:00 a.m.
(03:55) in the morning. So there was a murder. >> Okay. >> Uh in the South Central Railway family. >> So you see today yesterday there was officer wife was murdered. >> This case is also was also similar. So I was having a bike. So I took my bike and went to the crime scene. It was far off in Hyderabad is not that much developed or railway tracks that among that area.
(04:30) Um the bodies were found charred. >> Okay. >> All the four four of them husband who is a GM in South Central Railway and wife children also. >> Okay. So that was the first crime scene uh in the sense when I joined Aken Chronicle a crime scene and major crime scene I'll talk about my first crime scene also. So it was like continuous monitoring continuous talking to sources.
(04:58) Okay. So next we had a story everybody uh how the servant or help killed South Central Railway family. Next what happened uh next ro story is um haircut led to them murder triggered the murder and haircut and that woman was asking him to have a proper haircut and scolding that was the motive. So this he got offended all the time and u killed them by taking petrol getting all those.
(05:39) So that was my headline a different headline than other newspapers. It taught me a lot that first crime scene how to be up to date fast. Uh TV it was not print. So we updated I updated a copy every half an hour till it went to the print till 3:00 a.m. first crime scene. Very interesting. I worked when I was stringing for Inadu in Vijayada doctor wife. Doctor killed his wife.
(06:25) injection. So kills. So I have I went to the first crime scene. I have to tell you this because I used to read lot of spy novels. Okay. There is something called in Telugu shadow muabu all these are famous in generation and you guys are novel booklets. Okay. >> So those novels I used to read in which there is a character called bullet.
(07:01) >> Okay. >> There is a character called shadow. These people are Indian uh agents [clears throat] >> who go to Pakistan and kill them and do them all those kill them bad people there. >> Okay. >> And come back and all those things. So I was very inspired both by those uh uh things.
(07:20) So that made me like crime low like >> interest a curiosity inquisitiveness. So wherever I go to crime scene I observe it more like a cop more than a cop sometimes. So that's how it happened and uh it worked out well in further also time and I was full-time crime reporter for more than 10 years. Yes. Later on I went to health, environment, political, legal and lot of other things, science particular.
(07:50) If I go to a crime scene, telephone based crime detection, IP based crime detection, human intelligence, human intelligence, human human intelligence. So because there is something called modi okay the way the crime is committed so I'm so well with that modi by seeing the crime scene for instance Okay.
(08:47) Okay. They have their own suppose they carry the blade. Uh so there are lot of modes the way they commit. So for example they attack assault woman. So all those things I've I've seen that I can tell whether Because there is something called
(09:30) diatams in so I learned a lot on forensic science, forensic medicine. So crime scene the first crime scene there are multiple crime scenes I visited like terror blast Hyderabad all major terror blast mist blast all high-profile cases. So I've seen a lot. So microbiology I should have just stayed with microbiology any moment because there is a purpose here.
(10:07) So we are writing against rowdy cheaters I have written against contract killers politicians who are doing or bureaucrats who are doing wrong. It is not just crime alone. It is corruption anti-corruption. So scams, busting and all those things. So there is a purpose you're doing good for the society and um I always tell this people used to call earlier cup of tea and evalu they're calling it's find your dopamine.
(10:34) I always tell this find your dopamine. >> Okay, >> people mostly get dopamine by watching reals these days. But the real dopamine is like somebody does good. For example, you have started this and you are doing good work that's you're finding. So likewise I find my dopamine by writing a great story investigative story.
(11:00) I find my dopamine. So that's how I willingly changed and uh but in between there was pressure from the family in 2000 that uh you go Y2K problem which there were a lot of opportunities abroad in United States and elsewhere. So you take MCU while working master of computer applications but I didn't pursue it also RC while I was working with inadu as a central editor he's an is coaching expert he came to inadu in search of me because I was writing in inadu editorial article sudhakar mulani so he came yuru and he
(11:39) we were he came and I went to receive him in the lift he was asking who is sudhakar I was just 20 21 and he said hey you look uh so angry are you writing these articles honey so but he also told me why don't you pursue uh IPS um entrance civil civils entrance so he gave me books free >> so but uh I was teaching there sometimes international affairs so I didn't pursue it so always it was consistent once I took that decision to take up uh journalism >> yes so you stopped Inado journalism school in 1997.
(12:18) Um but you know school you mostly learn frameworks or theoretical experiences can when you were put on field they didn't teach you how it was like to knock on a grieving family's door or a murderer uh opposite marti I'm sure they didn't teach you all that how was it sir how is it different one thingard journalism is a school is a great school where best of the best journalists now in Telugu states have come from that school now they're in different uh there some of them are in Saki some of them are in English papers
(12:53) and all those things so always uh it's a better school when compared to lot of universities there are a lot of practicals also done there but mostly what we learn is on the ground while working so it is very sensitive particularly dealing with the victims >> as you said uh we need a story we need to find out what happened.
(13:20) We need the human interesting angle. There were lot of instances where we went to terror blast with [gasps] but there is always a code of ethics and ethical concerns. Some don't follow some follow because we have seen some visuals earlier where one TV channel goes uh jubile's blast you know there was cheruri >> want to kill paral rai and moan babu actor moan babu and paral ravi were going in that car and that so one TV channel while that fellow lost all his limbs going and asking for his coat or bite bite >> so It happens this very insensitive but
(14:02) we balance it. >> There is always we need to get the story. So victims grieving. So we should uh we should not be always believe we should not be part of the story. But sometimes we should empathize with them and go get the real facts and we should be unbiased even victims also because there is always in journalism or anything there is always heads and tails.
(14:34) So accused so but we used to it was like learned on while working. [clears throat] Yes. So interestingly there was victims there were instances accused I think you know there were lot of instances there was a lady down in Hyderabad who came and uh attacked our office previous office. >> Okay.
(15:04) There was an uh ex uh MLA uh and with all his corporators he came and stage da shouting sudhakar down down and he burnt papers. >> So there was lot of such backlashes comes and um there were one famous actor also came on stage. So this all happens but we we must be highly crime scene. Um so I want to get into the real scams the biggest scams of this generation sir and you are the one who broke them.
(15:38) So starting with Teli uh stamp paper scam which is worth 30,000 cr. So invol so bureaucrats politicians normal people everyone compromised. What made you break the story sir and what was the instant moment in the chayalyan? one of the senior journalists are serious journalists in this part of the world doing good work or whatever possible work but there are many other journalists elsewhere in other parts of the country other parts of the world doing great work I think scam from there is also a web series on teli scam it's one of the major scams I was very keenly
(16:17) involved and got uh nice investigations done because this scam Abdul Kharimi he was printing judicial stamp papers not fake currency usual fake currency print documents fake it's very difficult to so there was always there were cases here and there caught but it is not going to the main guy so when uh the scam came out I was closely following ing these guys.
(16:55) By the time actually he was arrested and put in um Chenchul Gura jail. So he's supposed to stay in Chelura jail but what happened he said I got um heart problem so shift me to with court permission he was shifted to hospital. Okay. With the help of one of the jail officers and with the help of hospital doctors, he is literally on record he is in the jail >> but he goes to Rajani Hotel.
(17:40) Okay. The man who looted this country, the man who uh printed so many fake judicial papers and caused So I went to the hotel >> okay >> and got all those uh um who are staying and all those pictures and all those things. Uh so who stayed and all those things and I written a good great story >> saying how the guy the Keli was staying in Rajani hotel.
(18:18) That is one major story. Then other one is there was a story there was an IPS officer um who went with him to Mumbai >> okay >> in a jet airways so I got hold of those documents and I published a story about the connections of certain IPS officers involved in the case helping Teli and there is one more called guy called risand what are the links so it was lot of IPS officers were exposed >> and one more IPS officer and some inspector were also exposed.
(18:56) That case led to the arrest of that IPS officer. So I was closely following there was sit formed later that sit uh I was also in touch with them. So I got some sources there. So apart from that my independent investigation I went to Pune. There was a jail there is a jail called Ara Jailrishna. He was also a minister at the NTDP then Tudeshan party.
(19:23) He was involved in that scam. He was jailed there. So I go and meet him and get likewise uh it was work of documentation leg work. It was work of going and getting. So major things are um how he was living in hotel, how these IPS officers were involved and other thing is um um how this racket is spread and it was almost 3 months continuous guy was running stories.
(19:53) Then it led to arrest of an IPS officer. >> Okay. >> Then EIP officer Inuka additional SP rank they fight in the jail. So all those because we have got sources we have reported there was a lawyer of Teli called Malesh Ra liars are like they will fight for anybody in the sense so Malesh is a great lawyer >> you know chala senior uh I he's a good friend of mine so we were in touch he fought for them and uh but despite I used to get lot of details and uh there was some one inspector and DSP by name who did a excellent work there. Apart from getting
(20:33) information from the sources investig ground. >> Okay. >> It was a good case and he died later >> of illness. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's one of the top scams. Then volumes >> and the next biggest thing is Panama file sir. [snorts] Uh most the largest financial leak. So documents Hyderabad related people influential names.
(21:16) Did you make a call? How did it feel to spot these names? International Consortium of Investigative Journalist ICI. >> Yes. So I got trained with them in 2016 but they did not have tie up with my organization previous organization DC which I was working but I have personal contacts with them Indian Express North India Express they could able to lay hands on certain people. Okay.
(21:45) >> But this part of Hyderabad when I got access to the offshore database leaks because some people who got all these there are a lot of tax countries you know British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, any tax countries money center, corruption money, illegal money, tax evasion money, India. So I already reported about the tax events and all those things earlier.
(22:18) So details so we have to investigate one by one. So there were big companies but I will tell you yes >> I was shocked [snorts] to see one of the companies owned by uh one of the company director who lives in Africa is a big um u businessman there. His name cropped up in Panama papers saying that he floated using this and he has these companies and he is a director of a company owned by Mukamantria Saiadika company director Unadu.
(22:57) >> So soon after my story of exposing that guy having links with Panama he resigned from that company. the director >> director resigned from that company because this politician is is clever to remove him quickly so that there is no connection left. So then what happened next there was a big who has become MP now his company is also involved it's a big uh company we investigated and some companies dummy companies ground there were address it's all dummy companies suitcase companies briefcase companies they're allies
(23:40) I think we can't it's very difficult to access what are the bank statements but already bad guys >> unknown established evaders violators are involved named in certain other cases we get into that uh we know that these people have done something >> I It has turned into dam though we investigated and found out who are the people involved Indian express there is journalist called Rituarin Iika there is some
(24:25) journalist called shinar jyala they all did good work I did good work as well though we are not so but uh it was very interesting because it's an international investigation transational so you have to get into those databases you have to find correlations it's more a data journalism or online oint investigation so and also physical investigation that was a uh but feeling and I know I was thinking okay this is going to lead to big thing but uh ultimately I think there are lot of big people involved so overall
(25:02) country irrespective of political parties wanted to dewater that and uh whereas invest in several countries have taken action. >> So you mentioned about ICIG and how you're a part of it. So that requires you to keep things at utmost sec how do you deal with it sir and you can't tell anyone not family not your editor so how does it make you feel to keep all the secrets >> and we have to inform the editor keep him informed whatever happening in the country that's because we have to take the decisions based on what the guidance
(25:41) because that's most important protection family But uh secrecy yes unless because if it's if that person [clears throat] is knowing he may counteract and he may destroy the evidence he or she may destroy the evidence or they may try to influence us in a different ways or influence people whoever at the helm of their fies.
(26:06) So secrecy even these days online secrecy is very important. Your your your laptops your phones are to be digitally safe. So we I maintain a lot of digital hygiene and uh do lot of uh there are a lot of techniques to keep yourself away from hackers because there were instances where people tried to hack uh the laptops and mobile phones and all those things and uh we have also got a citizen evidence laboratory.
(26:32) So I got my previous uh uh Android phone checked. >> Uh so there were some intrusions and uh even for Pegasus software which lot of people you know it was is a Israeli software which spies on new phones >> the people do uh okay >> because but now I that's why I moved to Apple phone. >> So so iPhone is far secured. >> Yes.
(27:02) It is not totally secured >> but it's far secured than Android. >> So I always regularly because every year I go to global investigative every two years I go to global investigative journalism conference. I'm I'm a fellow of a global investigative journalism network. It's called Gen. It's the largest investigative journalism network across the world.
(27:21) >> Yes. So we get our phone checked because there is a label and we can also do we know on different I have tweeted long back how to check your phone uh it's a big story how is your um battery extremely heating up is uh are there any blinks >> so what are the permissions you've given all those things are very important so these days it's more digital hygiene Yes sir.
(27:52) >> Um yeah that's uh that's what about uh secrecy. >> So moving to the next big story hair smuggling there's one story and also human trafficking in Telangana. So two are very similar stories where in one story hair smuggle and the other you know human trafficking. So evidences on similar lines document files.
(28:21) So human hair smuggling entirely my investigation it's all I unearthed and following which ED has taken up okay it's a parallel thing even scam is a par thing I'm doing they're doing like this is entirely my investigation human exporters genuine exporterscour airport. So I started digging into export import data.
(28:57) >> Okay, >> that is available on payment and online. Then I started digging into those companies which are the companies expert. There is a company called Naylor exports. I have to tell you this exports. There's a Myanmar guy >> who is a director and a local guy. The real director is a Myanmar guy. >> Okay. >> Myanmar is Bama earlier and why a Myanmar guy is having a company here. So I went to the address.
(29:25) So it is taking me I was thinking a human. So it went and took me to the most posh place of Jubilee Hills. >> Okay. >> All huge buildings, these palatial houses there. I found that address. I was waiting outside as a [clears throat] commoner somewhere far off. Then I was observing who are the people going in coming out.
(29:58) Then um that place entire house that flats full of human hair. Manishi jut. Okay. >> Whole house >> it's not flat. It's a house. Whole rooms >> kind it's a dup. So I was surprised and shocked. So that means what is the value of this human hair? Then we started digging more. It is $60 $100 worth of 1 kg >> and it is 10,000 cr just one guy made.
(30:37) And uh so then um I started writing stories one by one how this na exports runs in this place and how what are the it [snorts] is supposed to be $60 they're only selling giving putting an invoice So they getting money through havala and money money lending apps. Okay. So multiple angles there is a child labor angle woman. Foreign
(31:29) speech. Foreign speech. Foreign speech. Yes. Temples. Okay. But then it goes to these mugglers. Not only Hindus but even Catholics like Gonadala temple, Welankani temple in Nagapatnam in Tamil Nadu. They also offer this ju. So that is called
(32:30) actually but it is used to make chemicals. >> Okay. So it's a black gold. You have to make it tighten. So this has tom export they want to introduce. But
(33:23) one fellow went up to MP candidate also trade and I've seen the fellows with lot of gold wearing these gold men who are in Hyderabad some of them are fake also they are only recent phenomena so they are making big money hundreds of crores 300 scores of business then itself >> so They're legally suffering because these illegal guys let us do the started doing this racketing China.
(34:09) It goes via Myanmar and Bangladesh on land. They lift in air cargo. This human hair waste women. Okay. Wig industry is a huge billion multi-billion dollar industry in China. Europe particularly the black women >> they like to wear wigs. Okay. >> They purchase a lot and film industry also you know a lot of film stars
(34:56) they wear those famous big guys also whom people admire they wear wigs. So $600, $800, $1,000. He makes product and makes lot of money. So I got a friend in in customs you know you have to have when you are investigative journalist friends sources so you know everything what's happening so with that I could able to go there to the borders and okay >> and we talk to people and there is a guy
(35:43) that comes up you talk about But there is a guy called Lucas Mangalana. He is a guy he got family in Myanmar also some of family members. can transport you know he floated he himself made 10,000 crores of money 10,000 >> so when continuous stories human hair smuggling how it's happening the child angle child so I got pictures from Myanmar
(36:30) >> videos from Myanmar those camps original camps where the children are made to do all these things accord child labor tax evasion angaloo companies angaloo and even how havala most of the money uh comes back in havala gold biscuits it is also gold smuggling you know gold smuggling is a big thing in India you know that that film actor Rana something like that also >> lady that woman actor Mhm.
(37:08) >> So gold smugging is a big thing. Every day you get caught in airport from Dubai and other places because Indians like gold a lot. They want to stock it, hold it. Okay. Havala is like you know the cash the black cashes because I went into dug deep into that series that [clears throat] led to ED action enforcement director booked a PMLA case prevention of money laundering act case because what happened I'll tell you this is very interesting so I
(37:52) accompany I is there. So Ed wants to go to morning. Okay. >> So police are waiting. We were waiting with them at the house. We somebody because he's a big man. He's into sports association, religious association. Somebody tips him off. Look. What is he? He is not coming home. Borders poorest borders.
(38:33) You know we have poorest borders with Bangladesh. He's still at large. Very important. So there were took it up very seriously under smuggling whether it is timber smuggling whether
(39:18) it is red sander smuggling sandalwood smuggling wildlife smuggling is age-old >> practice and that's it will continue but it will decrease it will transform. Yeah. So easy. So this human hair smuggling story is one of the good stories in my life which I investigated journalism. I got some awards also internally and also >> on similar lines human trafficking story.
(39:52) Human trafficking human smuggling human trafficking. Okay. Human smuggling America Ecuador Antapo there were people who died at Canada borders. people who die in these forests. Soaki exp one one big one is um to the Myanmar camps cyber slavery enter okay so myanmar there's a golden triangle
(40:37) cyber crime Myanmar lavos um then um these countries there uh were involved in uh Cambodia >> okay we're involved cyber city Cambodian 90% 70% 70 to 90% digital arrests they will call and do all these things first they go through route
(41:32) Okay. illegal cross. So I could able to get the visuals the photographs of crossing all those things how it happens and I've written a series of stories and cyber because I could able to touch get touch with these people who are victims or scamsters and agents network and breaking there's a guy called Rajar that fellow is is arrested later so It was a very good story.
(42:08) >> It is more of a smuggling. Willingly these people went but they were put forced into some of them were beaten up. >> Okay. >> But they are also some of them are partners in the crime human trafficking. Very interesting. human trafficking bonded labor human trafficking. It is not only crossber within the country also.
(42:41) So it happens a lot lot of earlier Russian Ukrainian girls are um human trafficking is also bigger both human smuggling and human trafficking victimies published series of stories series of stories on how Gulf migration illegal migration so it has created a lot of impact protector of immigrants rules pass.
(43:16) So sometimes you need to go into depth you should mostly we don't do much of a string operations but uh you have to get into the documents and people talk to them uh so sometimes it's very risky and tricky. >> Yes sir. So moving back to Red Sanders, you spent most of your life >> working on this 10 12 years that you worked on it.
(43:42) So time people were smuggling people were breaking the forest that you know you're witnessing a forest breakdown 14th century Chinese only that quality is found in the 19th century and once it is
(44:27) political It has become bigger we are witnessing that how so I did lot of investigation dig deep into that and who are the people kingpins there's a guy called sahu he's most wanted by interpol so we tracked him in four countries France law dubai law first property documents. So I even broke a story how he sold a property in Chennai after while investigation.
(45:10) So that uh story went on well and uh exposed sahulami Dubai links film actors links there was a air hostess who was involved Lakshman there was a film producer involved there is a that's why one of my chapter says uh love sex and scandalwood so one of my chapters the Chinese connection chapter how Chinese are taking away how it goes most of the but is a more a fictional movie investigation and real people.
(45:49) So we exposed a lot of people and it is happening today also because that's called red gold music instruments as a journalist of India He gave special codes that is impact of my work. >> Yes sir. Of course he is the instrument in that but notice connections connection
(46:47) but lower level found lot of connections and even media is involved so many people are involved this this is a nexus. So mostly that's an interesting question because I have spent lot of nights and days I walked 28 kilometers up and it's not walking up and down coming down going down. I went traveled with the smugglers.
(47:28) If you see the photographs in my book, police so I've seen all those live and it was very tedious and very high energy >> particularly summer heat expo. Um I also went to lot of places in and around Chennai which are active. >> There is a place in Bangalore also called Kataganali. So very Chennai red hill sani. >> So it was like we go there we quickly talk to people take whatever evidence and come back.
(48:09) So we don't know in one place we were about to be killed. These are all uh we were in I have a assistant also and uh we when we were doing documentary also it was very cumbersome and very uh because we interviewed Gander we interviewed so many people so that documentary become famous and controversial also journalism we have to show our impact we can achieve those kind of things.
(48:48) Yes sir. So most wanted criminals. So as a victim I mean as a witness you were there or as a true investigator a journalist should not be party to any you are only a reporter who reports from outside was not wanted he was already arrested in marishes and he was brought back in that and he brought back he's living a normal life okay facing cases and living a normal life but he was not an open life so we took lot of time to reach out to him.
(49:27) >> Then Sahul Amidi still wanted by Interpol and he's hiding in Dubai. We could able to take we went to Dubai and that fellow He will not speak up. He still wanted we were we will witness to the history. We will witness to the journalism but not to the case. >> Yes. >> Never a journalist should be a party. >> So we should write let the agencies or
(50:12) whoever take >> it's it's not easy to reach them. >> It's not easy to stand up and write. It's difficult. So sir, you're dealing with a lot of criminals and big guys. So I'm sure there are continuous threats. So safety net, how do you keep yourself safe? >> There are a lot of threats, different type of threats. Okay.
(50:36) Physical threats, legal threats and psychological pressure. Psychological pressure everyday dealing with these kind of things. Legal threats. There's [clears throat] something called slap strategic legal uh cases suits against active participation of journalists. journalist in silence defamation faced few cases all those things but I quote but I came out clean because what protects you is we are in the business of truth telling verifiable truth You are safe. And always I tell let lose
(51:30) the truth. It will protect itself. It will also protect you. intention even the biggest safety net is your integrity against criminals or whatever. Then physical threats, drugs investig I don't my weapon is my my pen.
(52:19) My weapon is my integrity or whatever truthfulness. Integrity may be truthfulness. No malified intention and public interest. Always work for the public interest. Whole thing journalism true journalism investigative journalism. Now people are afraid of light not darkness. People who are people in question are people different people are doing good.
(53:07) >> One of the biggest things and recent Ukraine ground. So how is it usually journalist crime reporting it's called reporting initially then crime reporting crime report for long but um I did health environment but I got an opportunity to cover Ukraine war so war correspondent is a bigger thing very big thing >> it's a ultimate journalism law people thing. So I took up the opportunity.
(53:50) My wife knows that. So my kids doesn't know. We I was traveling from here to Frankfurt. >> Mhm. >> From Frankfurt to Wasa, Poland on flightani. We took a I took a car to the borders. From there again another. So I got Ukrainian armed forces because you need it because if you're going from Russian side it is difficult Europe it is more green.
(54:28) Yes. Hoteling suicide drones. Iran made drones given to Russia. >> Yes. So every day it was sleepless nights there. From there we went to warfront like Haku, Dontesk, the big warfront areas, real war. So I was there and so we reported for different angles and I was prepared because war correspondent anything happened you going right into the fight.
(55:13) So I told my wife but she was confident that he will come back also. We lived in Kaian where a journalist from different other countries were all it's all K is buzzling with journalist because but every hour key every four hours key there are attacks and all those things local people so but most dangerous is when you go to the red zone or whatever that zone that where we were there for one week or so but then a definite death.
(55:51) If something bad happens, if a bullet stays sent you, if you if a missile hits you, shelling hits you, it's all so I didn't sleep at all. >> You were scared. >> There is a fear always. But uh it's it it's when you go to when you go to any bombasting when you go because so you get used to it Ukraine. So it is not fear ultimately great experience for a life
(56:37) to go a war and cover it situation we should be careful I was very careful my organization was also very careful and I came back and I survived that war and but imagine about people who were who were killed soldiers who were getting killed both sides it's not good for the society so to make it lighter who is sudhakar sir beyond crime scenes or investigative journalism
(57:23) >> yeah I watch a lot of movies I watch a lot movies on Netflix and Amazon Prime majorly then spy movies espionage movies I also like light romantic movies of Christmas rom romantic movies I like those things I used to write poetry in Telugu >> okay >> it's more of a um like sri I used to like sri and I like films of manatnam Okay.
(57:56) >> My most Mumbai was most I always tell I always tell man my father was a farmer so I came from a village so I from village to I went to 25 countries on their fellowships. I studied in London in University of Westminster and all those things. So I feel take pride of it but Of course, but as a filmmaker, his films then as for the social cost.
(58:36) She is a revolutionary poet. >> Yes. >> Against that bullet theory. But um I do lot of colonies. I transformed one where I lived earlier in San Purra. I worked for the parks. So we developed parks, we developed roads was the chief minister. I worked hard for lake protection encroachments. Even hydra commissioner
(59:20) ranganad was helping. Sjana was helping. So I take help for the common good. Mostly I I like traveling a lot. Luckily I'm traveling on work and conferences. Uh around uh 25 30 countries I think some countries more than so any conferences I'm a global investigative journalism network fellow I'm a Norwegian foundation for investigative reporting scoop fellow I'm a geospatial uh in Amsterdam I went twice geospacecial world forum fellow okay >> on satellite journalism um I recently went to Bhutan to train
(1:00:06) journalist so I went to best great countries Japan also I went and so many countries >> on invitations not with my money but it's both work and seeing around uh so I like traveling a lot going to as a traveler favorite country >> uh favorite country is Japan because I like the tech tradition and uh they have a old religion of Shinto and then Buddhism and then uh they have um tech technology it starts with their commode >> and Yeah.
(1:00:42) Um, I like that there's there's a plane and their seafood and all those things and their longevity. I also like cities like Newark, uh, San Francisco, London. I also like Scotland. I was there and, uh, even Amsterdam. Um, so I traveled Italy, France, everywhere. But some cities make longlasting impressions. Paris is also good, but u I like some of the cities better than that. Even I went to Bosnia.
(1:01:09) so many different countries and I as a speaker as a fellow I'm a cher I was in London for so many months >> and I was lived lived as a learner um with u I worked with as a guardian as a participatory observation I so uh yeah there is a yeah every person can there is always his side of lighter side um I'm also a family man and spend a lot of time with uh my kids and and more importantly um I'm an advocate of free thought, free speech and society of irreligious.
(1:02:01) So I always feel bad about that and uh so and more importantly I train young journalists. I feel students training classe all journalists came so rural contributors forest academy
(1:02:45) so rural so 10,000 people imagine I feel immensely happy about that and the training is almost we touching thousand people on behalf of Google on behalf of US consulate teaching. So I go I teach crime reporting, investigative journalism, media lot, nulsar law, HU I go all universities teachers know teaching is other important thing and the light is I like forest a lot and then I'm a wildlife lover I go uh to the forest and I like I spend lot of time in the forest I also report also that's so work personal and I have a very strong friends maybe
(1:03:33) strong enemies also uh strong friends though I spend a lot of time >> so we have a lot of young viewers and uh to a young budding >> the jenji and millennials >> journalists in general what do you like one takeaway for them >> one takeaway is very simple people think uh money today's criteria biggest criteria is money so first question comes is there a In journalism big answer is no.
(1:04:04) In the sense unless people are doing illegal things, blackmailing, extortions, there are a lot of people who are doing that decent salary or a decent salary, decent ragal over the years. I'm an example. I started with just 300 rupees of stringing. Today I'm getting a very decent salary. So that can be when you work hard and you have you get a name you can create impact on the society.
(1:04:36) So journalism to do something good for the society to learn because I feel they clean our manholes took that as a pill and there are a lot of my cases taken newspaper happiness and justice called me chief justice called me for distributing the checks. So it's a immense happiness it will come and u so you have to come here to create an impact at the same time if
(1:05:25) you're decently doing good work you get decent you get to go and see the world and more importantly you can talk to multiple people you can talk to good guys you can talk to bad guys you can talk to doctors engineers politicians you can see the world I'm not against it at all. I I hate the word also that pop culture and there is no there is no culture like that people want to go and so but don't do bad things because but journalists especially you still journalism is good >> still journalism has got opportunities
(1:06:04) if you're doing the right things if you're uh taking up right path you can go and get and see the world there is something called factchecking so these are all good areas which if you want to pursue but seriously passionate pursue and go for originality because today it's all um mix up I call it information diarrhea so every [snorts] everywhere there is information everybody is doing the same so better focus on some originality original stories even in a era extremely original people will survive >> I always tell extremely original
(1:06:45) thinkers extremely original writers, great original thinkers that's a great original journalist, original stories from the ground will survive. And uh the last question sir, one story that you deliberately killed not because of pressure and another story that you're extremely proud of like >> I'm proud of many stories like what I said just now that farmers I'm proud of like gender like you don't have a toilets in this country even today there is no toilet dignity for the country for the people for the women girls rural people one
(1:07:23) girl ended her life because there is no toilet and mocking the she was mocked by road romeo's so I when I went and worked on story that place has been transformed when child girl child killing happened in Kolkata paridara I did a story it transformed that story led to so there are a lot of good stories to be talked about apart from those scams these are the human interesting stories but story when there is no evidence when we can't prove it in the court of the law we can't go about that uh otherwise every story I don't believe
(1:07:57) story interesting stories um today I wrote about tiger stress uh so I I write small stories to big stories there is no nothing small if it interests readers if it has public interest it is a story I was tracking man tigers also but policy newspaper policy >> that I can't comment on that because it's very sensitive.
(1:08:25) Newspaper policy allows we can write. So because ultimately you have to be in the job to do something good then uh there were certain instances here and there but not because of me because it has been so uh but mostly u I don't stop any story when there is an evidence that's what the problem >> evidence is >> that's what the problem for the people >> cuz I don't get u that's what you can see there are a number of instances >> is there any story right now in Hyderabad particularly >> that people are ignoreing ignoring deliberately and
(1:09:03) some people may say there is an journalist when you emergency time when you are asked to bend the crawler media likewise investigative journalism has become a dying art second thing there is lot of pressure governments and all those things so there are lot of stories that are not being looked into because literally we talk about freedom of expression but in state level or center level or whatever level uh there is anti- that's why people are fighting in west also journalism is not a crime >> there is a rise of uh
(1:09:40) anti-dia they call media as prostitutes and all those things batch and all those things they cause so there are a lot of trollings happen and all those things but even then apart from that yeah there are a lot of stories that are buried >> so It was a very insightful conversation mini and I myself wanted to be an investigative journalist.
(1:10:04) So it is it is an honor for me to be talking to you. Thank you so much for being with us today. >> Thank you very much and uh I wish all the best. We need lot of investigative journalist particularly young women like you. >> Thank you sir.
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