I Faked it! How to Make a Woman Orgasm? Seema Anand & Leeza Mangaldas | Female Pleasure, Sex & Shame
Author Name:Soha Ali Khan
Youtube Channel Url:https://www.youtube.com/@SohaAliKhanP
Youtube Video URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkLGNKZKC10
Title: I Faked it! How to Make a Woman Orgasm? Seema Anand & Leeza Mangaldas | Female Pleasure, Sex & Shame
Author Name: Soha Ali Khan
Description: ALL ABOUT HER with Soha Ali Khan ft. Dr. Seema Anand and Leeza Mangaldas | Sexual Pleasure, Intimacy, Female Desire & Sexual Health
What if we were taught everything about reproduction, but almost nothing about pleasure, intimacy and our own sexual health?
In this special episode of All About Her, we have an honest and open conversation about a subject that is still rarely discussed openly sexual pleasure and intimacy, particularly from a woman’s perspective.
Growing up, many of us were never taught about sexual health. Sex education was often reduced to reproduction, and even those chapters were sometimes skipped in school. Conversations around desire, pleasure, consent, communication and female sexuality were largely left to silence, shame and misinformation.
Joining the conversation is Leeza Mangaldas, author, sexual health educator and one of India’s most prominent voices in conversations around sex, sexuality, pleasure and consent. Alongside her is Dr. Seema Anand, mythologist, storyteller and author of The Arts of Seduction and Speak Easy, who brings the lens of history, culture, ancient texts and relationships to our understanding of intimacy and desire.
Together, we explore what sexual chemistry really means, what good sex means from a woman’s perspective, why female pleasure continues to be misunderstood, and whether the way we talk about sex has historically been shaped by a predominantly male perspective.
We also discuss some of the questions many couples struggle to ask how important is foreplay? Can sexual incompatibility affect a marriage? Is it okay to schedule sex? Is there a “right” amount of sex? What happens when intimacy becomes routine? How do couples talk about their sexual needs? And what does it actually take to become a better partner?
The conversation also looks at female pleasure across different stages of life from pregnancy and postpartum changes to perimenopause and menopause and how desire, arousal and libido can change over time.
We talk about sexual education, pornography and erotica, masturbation, sex toys, emotional intimacy, infidelity, shame around female desire, and why so many women struggle to communicate what they want.
And perhaps most importantly, we ask: How can women understand their own bodies better, and how can couples create a relationship where pleasure, consent and communication are equally important?
This is a special episode of All About Her, released on World Sexual Health Day, because sexual health is a part of overall health and having accurate, responsible conversations about it matters.
Disclaimer: This episode is not intended to promote erotica, pornography or any particular sexual practice. The conversation is purely educational and aims to create awareness around sexual health, intimacy, consent, communication and female wellbeing. Individual experiences and preferences may differ, and viewers should seek appropriate professional medical advice for personal health concerns.
At its heart, this episode is about replacing embarrassment with education and silence with honest conversation.
Because understanding our bodies, our boundaries and our needs should never be something we have to feel ashamed of.
#AllAboutHer #SohaAliKhan #LeezaMangaldas #SeemaAnand #SexualHealth #WorldSexualHealthDay #SexualWellness #FemalePleasure #Intimacy #SexEducation #WomensHealth #FemaleSexualHealth #Relationships #Consent #SexualWellbeing #ReproductiveHealth #Podcast #AllAboutHerPodcast
📍 Whoppl Studios
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Chapter titles
0:00 Upcoming
1:47 Introduction
3:35 Meet Seema Anand
4:12 Meet Leeza Mangaldas
5:43 Penetration vs Envelopment
9:43 What Is Good Sex?
13:08 Sexual Energy & Positions
18:26 Why Is Sex Still Taboo?
20:46 Desire: Born or Conditioned?
25:27 Sex & The Generation Gap
27:37 Seema’s Book & Backlash
33:03 Unlearning Sexual Shame
36:18 Sex Education
41:15 When Should Sex Education Start?
44:47 Consent & Toxic Masculinity
49:08 Boundaries & Saying No
54:23 Myths About Sex
58:54 The Virginity Debate
1:05:40 The Right Age for Sex
1:10:09 Leeza on Marriage
1:13:06 Seema on 40 Years of Marriage
1:20:27 Sexual Compatibility & Chemistry
1:24:50 Women, Age & Sexual Health
1:33:06 How Much Sex Is Enough?
1:35:33 The 64 Skills of Seduction
1:39:30 Why Foreplay Matters
1:50:10 Ninna’s Question
1:53:11 Ethical Erotica
2:06:24 Monogamy vs Polyamory
2:12:02 Closing & Outro
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Produced By: Soha Ali Khan
Production House: Any Content Experts Pvt Ltd
Creative Producer & Writer: Bhumika Jethwa
Technical Anchor & Lead DOP: Anish Ajmera
Assistant DOP: Jimit Sondagar
Post-Producer & Editor: Yash Patel
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Instagram: @sakpataudi
Twitter: @sakpataudi
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Transcript:
(00:02) I'll feel myself blushing through parts of this conversation because these are not conversations I've typically had in this kind of setting. >> I think women aren't allowed to want sex and they're not allowed to deny sex either, right? I think good sex is like one of the most amazing experiences life has to offer if I'm honest. Be sacred.
(00:18) [music] >> Sex is like fish. Even when it's bad, it's good. I was like, >> no. Most people think the clit is just the clit. >> It's don't even know what it is or where it is. And a lot of times you're just lying there waiting [music] for it to be done to you and we're not taught how to participate.
(00:36) Sexual organs if they're closer to each other in [music] size positions were created actually help synchronize the sizes. >> Overemphasis on this small amount of tissue the highman as if it's proof of virginity is also completely unscientific. >> Consistency of a wet face tissue. It is that useless. >> The weight of the world lies on this mother your father your ta your everybody's honor is sitting over there.
(00:57) Yeah, please look [laughter] at the body. Honestly, I do not want my daughter growing up thinking that somebody else owns her. No, orgasm seems so elusive. Often faked it. My good luck if if it happens. [laughter] >> I mean, I used a toy for the first time at 27 and it blew my mind 30 seconds because we think sex is erection, penetration, ejaculation, and it ends when he comes.
(01:18) I think a lot of men also just don't focus on women's pleasure enough. But these sort of films which have an element of male toxicity, they do very well. Why is that? I always say that every girl should date a toxic guy to understand that that's not what you want, right? There have been sex doctors [music] since forever.
(01:34) Lisa and I talk about pleasure. People who don't know what they're talking about need to step the hell back. [music] All around the world as I speak, people are having sex and not a lot of them are trying to have babies. Humans are the only species capable of consciously creating and enjoying mutual pleasure. And I personally feel that sexual chemistry is key to a stable marriage.
(02:08) But sexual pleasure and intimacy, we barely talk about it. And I'll be honest, even I find it awkward. It feels exposing and vulnerable and perhaps a little too real. Growing up, we were never taught any of this. Not at home, definitely not in school. And what I came across was literature, movies that were all told through a male lens.
(02:36) The very act of sex, the language reveals a bias. For instance, why is it called penetration and not envelopment? Why is female pleasure treated like an optional add-on? And here's a fact. Nearly 60% of women globally say that they have difficulty talking about their sexual needs. And more than half say that they were never even taught about their pleasure or anatomy at all.
(03:01) Another study says that women are twice as likely to experience sexual dissatisfaction simply because their partners don't understand their bodies. So the silence is not cultural, it's educational, it's generational, and sometimes it's even medical, which is exactly why today's episode exists, to make this conversation normal, healthy, respectful, and deeply human.
(03:24) Hello and welcome to All About Her, a space where we have honest and meaningful conversations about women's health, wellness, happiness, and self-care. And today we're exploring sexual pleasure and intimacy. Our first guest is someone whose work has reshaped the way we understand sensuality, intimacy, and feminine energy, blending mythology, ancient wisdom, and modern relationship dynamics.
(03:47) She's a mythologist, storyteller, intimacy educator, and an authority on love, desire, and relationships through a cultural as well as a psychological lens. She's also the author of influential books like the art of seduction and speak easy a field guide to love longing and intimacy. Both of books are here and I'm very very honored to welcome Dr. Simma Anand.
(04:08) >> Thank you so much. Thank you for having me so thank you very much for being here. Our next guest who joins her uh has become one of the most influential voices in India when it comes to sexual well-being to consent to pleasure equality and honest conversations around bodies and relationships.
(04:26) She began as a journalist and content creator, but over time she's turned into a full-fledged educator and activist for sex education and sexual health. She's the author of the sex book, also on my table. I think it's a first of its kind. It's a comprehensive, inclusive, scientifically accurate, judgment-free guide to sex.
(04:45) Please welcome Lisa Mandas. >> Thank you, SA. And it's so nice to be with you, Zimma. >> Absolutely. Always. I know you guys have uh been together virtually. Um, you've also perhaps met a long time ago. It's been a while. >> It's been like over the last >> five, seven years. We've met several times. >> And we also have regular coffees on online together.
(05:05) >> Nice. How nice. I've watched some of your interviews together. I've read not cover to cover, but I've read through um all the books. And I just want to say that I think it's wonderful that this literature exists for people who have questions, who might even simple questions just about your anatomy, about your body.
(05:23) um you started off um Lisa for example in your book just explaining some of the basics and then of course there's lots of wonderfully nuanced questions that people have for example in your book Sema that you've addressed um so I would firstly encourage everyone to look at these books purchase them go through them and even then if you have questions uh it's nice to keep having conversations I tried to structure this conversation with warm-up questions and then my team told me that you know audience has no patience and very very short attention spans and so I should
(05:54) get right to the meat of the discussion and I thought okay then so there's no warm-up questions we're going to get to the meat of it and I thought maybe that's why there's so few women who perhaps actually enjoy orgasms >> no foreplay >> there's no foreplay there's no warming up um so unfortunately I cannot warm you up at all we're going to jump into it >> we're [laughter] warm >> yeah I think we've also of course we met off camera and we chatted a bit but one of the questions that I had which I was talking about in the introduction was
(06:22) the whole language of sex as well is from a sort of male perspective. Why for example and ask I'll start with you Simma if I may. Um why is it called penetration? Why is it not called envelopment? Because I guess historically it's always been um a man's prerogative to have sex or to enjoy sex. A woman's pleasure has been invisible always.
(06:43) So this whole idea that you know you look at the penis and it's whether the penis is hard or soft. How long is it? How thick is it? How long is it going to last? It's all about the focus on that organ. The vagina has just left us something that receives. It's passive. It's over there. You put in the pleasure is his. Hers is only supposed to be pleasure if she watches him have pleasure.
(07:07) I mean the stories that we tell unfortunately that's just how we that's how we focus. I always say that the stories we tell define our identity. They they establish who we are. >> Yes. >> The words that we use actually establish our actions. They establish our culture. >> Yeah. >> And we have we've stuck to a very very male vocabulary.
(07:27) We haven't said what the vagina does when you're actually I mean all you do is penetrate and then what does the vagina do? It kind of gets warm and it gets wet and then the blood comes in and then it engorges and it it kind of, you know, almost infolds the organ, the male organ, and it does all of these amazing things.
(07:48) It draws you in. >> We're not talking about that. We're not talking about the fact of what really gives you that pleasure. >> I mean, not enough of us are talking about it. You two are talking about it. >> We we women's women's agency has just been left out. It's it's always um presented as if sex is something that happens to women.
(08:05) >> They must lie back and take it as opposed to being active agents. I think women aren't allowed to want sex and they're not allowed to deny sex either, right? Marital rape is still legal and yet premarital consensual sex is frowned upon. You're just supposed to be a passive spectacle in this thing that's happening to you.
(08:23) And I feel like the word envelopment suggests agency. >> Yeah. >> And women aren't supposed to have agency. You're not going to believe this, but I just did a podcast with this guy and he had my book on the table and he was like, he was a very nice guy, don't get me wrong, but he said and with a very very large following and he said, "So, you have a whole section on pain during sex is a lot of women get a lot of pain during sex.
(08:51) Um, and it's never really considered." And so, we needed to check what are the different things that could cause the pain and it's not normal. And he's like aa like no you actually don't know that this can this happens and you are at that age where you're now relationship age. >> Yes. And I mean people even think that it's okay like it's women's lot in life to tolerate pain during sex during like very preventable pain is just considered like >> it's your duty now you're a woman like >> women themselves also feel like it's >> but I mean because they're conditioned a
(09:24) little bit not a little bit a lot >> a lot >> to feel like they're meant to just >> and we've had some of those conversations in fact on this podcast about menstruation and about um even brain health and things when it's not normal. you should actually be talking about this and seeking some help and there are solutions also for things um and people are not even aware.
(09:43) So I wanted to ask you Lisa what then is good sex from the point of view of a woman? For me personally, I think good [music] sex is sex that makes me feel understood and seen and accepted and and you know, it's not just a physical act, right? I think so often when people talk of sex, they think of it as a purely physical thing, but I think our emotional and physical um sort of being is is not disjointed in that way.
(10:10) And so to feel seen both, you're naked, right? I mean, this is as vulnerable as you can be with someone. Hopefully, they're being extremely attentive to your pleasure. you're feeling loved and celebrated in this, you know, primal state of nakedness. But also psychologically, I think it's such a powerful way of connecting with another human being.
(10:28) Is there anything that allows two people to connect more deeply? I I think good sex is like one of the most amazing experiences life has to offer if I'm honest. I mean, it's why I do what I do because I love sex. I think good sex is just >> like one of life's greatest gifts. And so at its best, I think sex is two people get seeing each other in this way where there's no mask at all and you're almost um you know, it's it's almost like a spiritual experience for two people to connect in that way.
(10:58) Your bodies are becoming one. >> It's crazy like someone's inside you when you think about it. >> Fully absorbed that what you said. I'm fully taken. [laughter] I believe you. >> Um but I think people kind of it's just sex. It's this thing we do on Saturday night with the lights off. I think people are so need so much convincing of the significance of sex.
(11:16) It is not just sex, you know. Um it's sex. It's like it's should be sacred. And so I wish that people thought of it as sex is pleasure is serious. You know, it's fun, but it's also serious. And it's [laughter] there's a >> it needs to be taken serious. So somebody said to me at a conversation, "No, no, Sema, >> sex is like fish.
(11:37) Even when it's bad, it's good." And I was like, >> "No, fish can make you [laughter] ill." >> Absolutely. Bad fish is terrible. Bad sex. No, definitely. So, Vatzan, the author of the Kamsutra, says that if it's not really pleasurable, what's the point of having sex? And so, so much of it, so much of the Kamsutra was actually written, including the um chapter on positions.
(12:00) The positions are not just random thrasharounds. No, >> it was that the very first thing to I mean I agree totally with Lisa that my idea of good sex is where you come away feeling you connected you you became a little bit closer. >> Yes, >> you connected a little bit better. But um Ven says that if sex is going to be pleasurable, there are a lot of things that go into it.
(12:23) But the very first thing is that your um sexual organs if they're closer to each other in size because if the woman is too large and the man is too small, there's no friction, there will be less pleasure. If she's too tight, he's too big, there's going to be pain. So the closer they are in size, but nobody ever came together saying, "But could you please send me your measurements first?" No.
(12:47) >> And so the positions were created to actually help synchronize the sizes. So if the woman is too big and the man is much much smaller, he recommends certain types of positions where she's on her side, where her thighs are one on top of the other and that narrows her down a little bit and so on.
(13:05) So this was very carefully thought out. 2,000 years ago they were talking about this. >> So there are of course because people come in different shapes and sizes. So there is a position for you irrespective of how you are shaped according to each other and also in your book you've talked about different energies associated [clears throat] with different positions and sometimes then >> you may not be in the mood or you may think that you're having um a problem with your libido but perhaps it's an energy thing and you might want to try
(13:34) another position. >> Yeah. You know, it's unbelievable that a lot of people think of like Lisa was saying, sex is just sex. It's just two physical bodies or two organs coming together. It's so much more than that. So, for instance, if um in a very typical traditional um sort of setting where the man is going to be on top, you have to garner a certain amount of energy to be on top.
(13:59) You cannot just get up there and then say I'm feeling a bit you know every position comes with its own energies and I found which I put a couple of these questions in the new book I spoke to two young queer male sex workers last year and they said 70% of their clients are straight married men straight married men who come to them because they're like we don't have the energy >> or the the performance women's levels that are required to be on top and be in charge.
(14:33) We want to give up that idea of being in charge. So, they're not even sex life at home is dead because they don't want to be on top, but if they're underneath, they'll be judged for that, >> right? >> They're not even going to female sex workers. They're now going to male sex workers because they feel there's less pressure and there's less judgment, >> right? >> And we are not letting people even admit that there is that there is an energy.
(14:55) Forget energy. Let's use the word emotion. It's easier. Men still believe that they can have sex without emotion. Emotion is not just desire, pleasure, love. >> Yes. >> Anger, stress, >> yes. >> Feeling judged, all of those are emotions. >> Yes. >> People go through that. >> Yes. >> And we we don't we don't acknowledge it enough.
(15:16) >> Yeah. It's so true. There's so much um uh to learn from that. You know in fact when you were talking about the uh different positions I just wanted to ask and people can of course read the book and find out for themselves. So for example if you feel that the man is not big enough what is the position that would be >> ideally um what they say is that the thing to do is then to narrow your um the vaginal canal a little bit.
(15:42) So positions where the woman or the person receiving the person with the vagina is lying on her side, her thighs are one on top of the other and that kind of narrows you down, >> right? >> Then there are other positions where literally you would um if you know the length of the person is so this is in case the girth is less.
(16:01) >> If they're shorter in length then there are certain other positions that the kamsutra recommends. So there is all sorts of options given for how to actually reach pleasure because the point is not to get the two sexual organs to meet it's about generating pleasure >> right >> and I find that like even for instance um the clitoris now most people think the clit is just the clit it's it's >> people don't even know what it is or where it is >> that's [laughter] true absolutely >> but the ones who do it's like huh that
(16:36) is the organ which is going to make the woman feel excitement. Yeah, let's go for it. [music] Everybody likes it touch differently. >> When you're going through, let's call it penetration for the time being. Um, you're actually missing >> development. What is this word? >> What is this sudden? Oh god, a [laughter] new word.
(16:53) Um, so you know this whole idea that you would because I also talk about how you wore different pieces of jewelry to, you know, so basically where you're lying down. It's a position called the split. So, you're lying down on your back as the vagina owner. Your one foot will be up on the man's shoulder and the other one or across the shoulder, the other one on his forehead.
(17:15) >> Your foot is on his forehead. And the idea of this or even the idea of putting your foot up and down, you're in that position that helps you to do little micro adjustments. That's bringing your clitoris into contact. >> Yeah, >> that's helping. But when you're actually in the split, your clitoris is in contact with the thrusting motion that's happening and it changes how much pleasure you are likely to feel.
(17:39) So there are all these little tiny adjustments to the the the old missionary position, >> right? which can actually make the woman participate because as we know and Lisa will also confirm this that you know when the woman is underneath a lot of times you're just lying there waiting for it to be done to you and a lot of the we're not taught how to participate.
(18:00) >> Right. >> Right. You're just the receiver. >> Right. >> The idea is to is to participate so that you can be part of that pleasure. >> Yeah. Totally. And to to ensure some amount of clitoreral stimulation during penetration makes penetration infinitely more pleasurable for women. >> Absolutely. >> So when you're on top, you end up having a bit more control and can use, you know, friction against the upper abdomen of the male partner.
(18:24) >> But you can also use a vibrator. >> But I feel like we're getting ahead of ourselves. >> Um even though our audience may have um issues with patients and attention spans, I feel like um I want to warm up till we get there. And there's certain conversations that I would like to have before we get um to that.
(18:41) Also, I feel like I myself get a little red in the face and I'll feel myself blushing through parts of this conversation because these are not conversations um I've typically had in this kind of setting. >> I have to also tell you that we have got so used to talking about it. We don't realize [laughter] >> we don't realize how >> and um I mean my cheeks might be reflecting off my my shirt, but I feel like um why it's not I mean of like of course having conversations I don't know of course having conversations about sex awkward and difficult. Why am I saying
(19:13) of course like why is there that sense of uh this is a subject I don't really know how to express myself. Should I be talking about this? There's an element of shame of course. Um, why is that? >> It's like a massive colonial inheritance. We inherited 18th century Victorian morality both legally and socially and especially English-sp speakaking Indians inherited that big time, right? It's not even pre the British.
(19:37) >> I mean, we have the Kamasutra and Kajaru. >> Yeah. >> Someone came and told us all of that was shameful. I think sexual repression was a tool of colonial rule globally whether in India, Africa, everywhere. They tried to civilize the savages. Um, and I mean we still have these, you know, legal codes.
(19:55) Marital rape being legal is a British era law. Homosexuality being a crime was a British era law. Section 377 only got repealed in 2018. Can you imagine like that is crazy. And I think we somehow think that shame, our culture upholds shame and sexual openness is a western thing. But actually sexual openness is a very Indian thing and the shame was the western import.
(20:17) So I think that um we do ourselves a service to stop thinking of like being squeamish about sex as a duty to our culture you know like I don't know there's some idea of like good Indian people and Indian >> and even though we have the biggest population in the world >> yes and obviously that >> is a result of something that didn't happen through sex >> no of course not [laughter] >> right I was taking it very literally then I was saying of course not but the idea of um this sanscari woman.
(20:49) Were we born with desire and has that been [clears throat] conditioned out of us? Are we born like I feel like >> it's out of us >> just private and public. there's a dissonance between our private and public >> but like you know like I I feel and again there's a few examples that that say you know you're incorrect but I feel like every child is born good and kind and then I can see already when they're becoming older we ourselves make them a little harder to poverty to animals to like you know they just become their
(21:15) skin becomes tougher but I think they're not they're born kind so are we born with desire and then it's conditioned out of us >> absolutely and totally yes so if you think about let's say our physical body. Um there are different parts of your physical body which have the most incredibly sensitive nerve endings and the amount of pleasure that generates just by the touch the simplest little touch that was not something that was imported from the outside world from the surrounding world. That was in us.
(21:47) You know, most little girls will start by um squeezing their legs in order to feel pleasure even before they know what they're doing. >> Yeah. >> And it becomes such a habit because it is so pleasurable. You know, you get that >> it's a self soothing behavior. It's not even sexual when you're right. >> But it gives you that little bit of pleasure and you enjoy it and then like you said, it's self soothing behavior and it comes with that.
(22:14) But I also want to say sorry before um I give the mic to you that you know when we think about the Kamsutra being written >> 300 and something AD he says Vatan says that he didn't write anything new he's taken stuff from a thousand years before and copied and pasted the bits that he likes. So we are talking about the the fact that pleasure was not just there but pleasure had been refined to this incredible degree of elegance and desire that kind of um denoted how civilized you were >> right >> how much you understood about it. 300
(22:51) and something AD when the the Kamsutra is being written at the same time 325 AD CE um the first ecumenical council of the Catholic Church is set up and they immediately start by saying the body is sinful pleasure is bad this is you should feel guilty for this so the two things the two ideas have grown up simultaneously and we're in this twilight zone in between >> and we've all sort followed this idea of guilt, sin, >> ugly, bad >> because that's been used to control.
(23:27) I mean, it's a control mechanism, right? The more you put, the more taboo, the more stigma you put, the more you can control people. We're still stuck in that um twilight zone because today both you and I when we talk about pleasure we are the ones being told that this is ancari because of course the British came and wrote the no a lot of people do but there's a there's a determination to say >> even the people who love what we're talking about I still get people writing little DMs saying but I feel so guilty I
(23:59) feel like I'm doing a bad thing >> is there a text that says masturbation is okay because they're looking for >> validation. >> Validation, reassurance. Yeah. From the ancient texts to say, is this all right? >> Is being gay. Okay. I mean, the the amount of insecurities that we've >> I mean, I think it's so unfortunate that for so many young people, your own parents, for example, might be >> conveying that type of messaging to you, right? If someone as important a figure in your life as your own mom or dad is
(24:29) telling you things like sex is shameful or being gay is unacceptable. I will throw you out of the house if you whatever you know that's the unfortunate love is very conditional in most Indian households and maybe in other parts of the world also I don't mean to like focus just on in in much of this part of the in various parts of the world love is conditional actually if we're honest our families are um there's expectation that comes with any um anything that provides a sense of belonging your country or family whatever it is and so
(24:58) I think there's a >> um friction for most people between who they've been told they ought to be and who they really are, >> right? >> You know, if you're attracted to somebody of the same sex and that's unacceptable in your in some countries, not even legal, how difficult it is to go on that journey, right? Even though all your feeling is perfectly natural, >> but imagine if the the the law is telling you it's unacceptable is what an unfair battle to have to fight. Right.
(25:26) >> Right. I want to ask you if you because you know both of you work also in this space. Do you feel like there is a generational gap? Do you feel like we are unlearning some of that shame or we just hiding it better? Like >> I think that I'm very optimistic. I think that young Indians are privately much more open-minded than they publicly are able to proclaim.
(25:48) >> I think lots of women might want to, for example, share our content or say something about how they had their first orgasm and it was life-changing, but they worry their father-in-law, brother, or someone someone will see. But the sentiment is there, you know. Yeah, >> I think there's like this very strong recognition of the fact that we'd benefit from an erosion of silence and shame and stigma around the topic that sex is a rightsbased thing.
(26:13) You know, we deserve agency. We deserve access to resources around even our safety or contraception [music] or understanding of consent or like all of it. Yes. >> Should be open >> and ideally schools should do something about it. I'm getting the sense from people that privately they are so on board.
(26:30) publicly they still have consequences to admitting how on board they are. So they tone it down a bit. >> So the consequences are from schooliety, >> family, society, other you know, >> right? I mean, I only realize this actually in all its entirety when I had an a message from this woman who said, >> um, and I generally don't look at my DMs because there are just so many to go through that it's not always possible, but it happened to pop up.
(26:57) >> And she said, uh, I know you probably won't even realize this, but I've had to unfollow you. I watch everything that you do. I share it. I but I cannot officially follow you or like it because some guy who she knew noticed that she was following me and started getting really inappropriate with her and said oh you're that kind of girl you know that kind so there are so many people and not just women >> sure guys as well >> people will create fake accounts to follow pages like ours because they don't want you know
(27:29) >> well I mean at least they're getting the information >> at least they're getting the information they have to worry that who is going to know that I follow a sex education Yes. Um actually in in the dedication of your book also you've dedicated to your five children. Um and you've said that it's to make the world a better place uh for them.
(27:49) Um which makes me ask you also the the fact that you must have had some push back. >> Yeah. Now you have to remember that when I start talking about this which is a very long time ago um I there was nobody else really talking about this subject about pleasure. People have talked about sex. There have been sex doctors since forever. >> Yeah.
(28:08) >> Lisa and I talk about pleasure which is hugely different. >> And when I start talking about that I faced so much crap you would not believe. >> I'm talking about from best friends. I lost best friends. >> Really >> best friends. I lost um I mean I had people >> who were supposed to be such close friends of mine.
(28:28) They were like surrogate moms to my kids >> who put out the um idea that I was a call girl that oh nobody should talk to her. I mean the things that my kids have had to hear, not just me. >> Um there's been a lot of battles. There's been a lot of fights. And I always say that the first time I realized that these stories were missing was because I've always worked with women's narratives.
(28:51) always worked with her stories impact women. I had Tarini, my youngest, uh she's now 27 and I remember sitting up one night breastfeeding her and thinking in all the stories that we tell about that create our identity. We never tell stories of a woman's right to her own body. Her body belongs to somebody else. For her pleasure, she needs somebody else's permission.
(29:15) I do not want my daughter growing up thinking that somebody else owns her. >> Like, no. And that's when I actually started my work. I started going out to look for the stories that we'd silence because equally it's not just stories that we tell, it's the stories that we silence, >> right? >> And so the kids have actually been incredible.
(29:35) They have been my biggest support like through thick and thin. Even at the time I'm married to this very typical half Punjabi, half Cindi man from Delhi who's now 73 years old. So very typical of that time who's now fine with it. But I went through [laughter] Yeah. fine. ever. He's got to be. He's had to be. He has no choice. >> He has no choice.
(29:55) [laughter] >> That's so And we've just um it was our 40th anniversary a couple of days ago. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you. Um I've not killed him. That's >> Congratulations. >> I know. [laughter] That's where we need the thing. >> That's wonderful. So you can be here with us. >> Exactly.
(30:12) But it's the children that have supported this movement. And now of course I have incredible friends like Lisa and we are I I think it's great because to enter this space on social media at my age I knew nothing I I started Instagram >> during co >> I didn't know what I was doing. I hated the fact that we had to do 30 second reels to explain stuff that would take me hours to explain.
(30:36) >> Yes. >> And um you know Lisa has been one of my supporters my story. >> But what a champion she is. Oh my god. Firstly, your TED talk ages ago, pre- Instagram days, already made everybody want to see more of you, right? Do you remember that? Um, >> remember the TED talk? >> Have you seen it was like one of the most viral TED talks ever back when TED was like the thing >> and so I feel like young Indians were already obsessed with this.
(31:01) >> Yeah. >> Well, you know, I have called you and said, "Lisa, this is happening. What should I do?" And she's just been there to support me. And I think >> I'm so glad though that you use social media in the way that you did when you did because people and you know it's so powerful also to see women of at different stages in their life talking about this because unfortunately so few people have any reference points.
(31:26) I'm so happy they have like someone in their 20s, someone in their 30s, someone in their we they should, you know, like you need representation matters and and for people to talk intergenerationally. I feel like most young people don't talk to their to anybody. >> Yeah. >> Uh who's not in their immediate peer group.
(31:43) >> So I think like I said, my daughter of course who started the page for me and created it and did what she did and people like Lisa who've been there to support me through it. So yeah, I love you so much. Do you find now that all those friends were all judgy given how successful you are like trying [laughter] sorry not today but it's funny how success though I think what's great is that when to see people like with books and bestselling books and videos with views all over the world and awards and like so much
(32:16) respect now coming to people like us normalizes right it does allow for the for people to think like Okay. Actually, sex is talking about sex is a respectable thing to do. >> Yes. Without going nudge nudge wink wink. >> Even though these friends who thought, "Oh, who are these crazy ladies?" I definitely had some of those.
(32:33) >> Did you just make a video about masturbation? You know, when you have like zero followers, but suddenly when you have I don't know, it's a funny thing, but success does just put a halo on >> the whole thing. And I'm glad I'm glad we're making sex respectable. It is respectable. >> No, absolutely.
(32:50) And it makes me want to ask um that sometimes that journey I mean you may be personally motivated by whatever you're motivated by like to educate the world to share your journeys to change other people's lives for the better because and you've referred to parents being such important role models and the education that you get from a young age being so important to just shaping who you are whether it's from school and now they are introducing sexed in schools um at least the school that my daughter goes to they teach them the names of their private parts at an
(33:20) appropriate age when they're two actually from the beginning you know we we call it a vulva and a penis and not nu definitely not shame shame which you've also spoken about so what are some ways that we can unlearn this shame >> can you tell us um Lisa in terms of >> and also your own uh memories of growing up >> so I feel so lucky to have parents who've never made sex out to be something shameful I think it would be much harder to do the work I do if I had resistance in my own household.
(33:52) And so I grew up in Goa. My parents are are quite um >> freespirited, [laughter] >> let's say. And so they never made I mean my conviction in the fact that sex is not shameful and it's a wonderful thing is so is like unflinching. Nothing anyone could tell me could take that away from me. So I've never thought what I do is not respectable.
(34:13) I didn't um need to I mean for me it's like you guys need to get on the same page like I want you before you die to experience the joy of the full force of your sexuality without an iota of shame getting in the way of you like you know taking space and especially women. So I think there was never for me it wasn't so much of a of a journey of like oh sex is shameful and I need to overcome this but my pleasure was news to me.
(34:39) I think I alsent decade of sexual experiences from let's say college to my mid20s like from 18 to 28 I feel like I >> I didn't realize how my own pleasure worked >> and I didn't think of it as a solo journey. I I had a boyfriend like you know from my freshman year in college or whatever. I went to college in New York. It was very liberal.
(35:08) It seemed like I'm having sex. Like what do I need to masturbate for? But orgasm seems so elusive. >> You know, I've often faked it. >> Um it was just like oh it's like my good luck if if it happens [laughter] >> and like some very this magician has made it happen somehow. I don't even know what he did the >> and when I figured it out my I mean I used a toy for the first time at 27 and it blew my mind.
(35:30) 2 minutes whenever I want 30 seconds like >> right >> just like orgasms are no big deal. You don't realize how consistent and focused stimulation of the clitoris, whether alone or accompanying penetration, is just going to make it so much more reliable for you to access orgasm. That blew my mind. I was like, with my Ivy League education and these liberal parents, everything going for me.
(35:51) And my own orgasms took me 10 years to figure out like I have to shout this from the rooftops. Okay. [laughter] Women are not dying without having an orgasm. Not on my watch, you [laughter] know. So, yeah, because there I get messages. is I'm sure you do too. Even today in 2025 where we do have this information and things so many people would write to me I've been married 10 years I have two kids I've never had an orgasm.
(36:13) >> Yes. Yes. And I want to speak about the elusive female orgasm again a little bit later. I just want to ask you Simma firstly in terms of the um formative years of growing up. What are things that we can do as parents or as educators as you just with some of the children who are growing up to create that atmosphere? So I think that a lot of people forget that sex is not just about the physical thing.
(36:36) We we said this earlier already. It's so much more than that. Sex is the penetration part of it is just a tiny part of it. And I think that there's a lot of emotions that come with it. There's a lot of things that you feel. We have to teach children. We start sex education by teaching young people what they're likely to feel when they encounter something like this.
(36:58) Like I always say that the first thing you have to teach kids is rejection. When you are you growing up you like somebody >> more than likely that you will be rejected and rejected many times. It is not it's you don't have to react by throwing acid on somebody. >> It's okay. Learn that this happens. Learn that when you look at somebody you could get really excited.
(37:19) What does that excitement bring for you? You're going to feel nervous. Yes, that is part of it. It might even be the same combination of nervousness and excitement the very first time you have sex. So, it's going to make things even more difficult because you don't know how to deal with it.
(37:37) You know, these are things that we need to start talking about. The fact that attraction happens, desire happens, randomly arousal happens. >> How your body is going to react, what you might see, what you might think, what you might feel. It is so important. That's the first thing that we shut down for so many young people like don't think about that >> about shame for teenagers is conversation parents are not having at all >> and um I found like somebody said to me but this is when their daughters are like 18 and 20 I think she said you know we need to talk to our young kids about
(38:12) this we need to talk to our daughters about some of the stuff that's going on but instead of us talking to them directly because the kids generally will like if you try and talk to them about it. It's like you so they don't want to hear it. >> So she said what we do is we take one of your reels whatever you talked about particularly if it's a question that I've repeated >> and we let that be the subject of conversation at the dinner table so there's no pressure on anybody.
(38:38) >> So you know just things that both of us bring up use that to actually discuss. But definitely the first thing you need to do is actually start telling your children how you are likely to react to things both in your mind and your body. Just the emotions that come with it >> because that's where we're really really kind of letting our kids down because that's this is where guys are growing up saying, "Oh yeah, we can do this emotionlessly.
(39:05) " >> Nobody's emotionless. >> No. And what you said was really interesting just about understanding that there will be rejection. Um and learning those things, it's not just about sex and physical intimacy. I think also when we bring up our children, I don't know whether this is an Indian thing or all over the world.
(39:21) Um we don't give them a lot of agency. Our children, we pick them up from here to there. We don't tell them where they're going. We we dress them, we clothe them, we feed them, we don't respect their appetites. Um so all of that is part and parcel of consent. >> Absolutely. Okay. But I must add over here as well. So I have three kids.
(39:38) >> Yeah. >> And this whole thing was in my head about like I must tell you to see what you want to dress in today. And my middle son absolutely found it traumatic being told that he had to pick his own clothes when he was little. >> And it really bothered him. And I think that you know when people write to me and say what is the what is the age where I should introduce my child to let's say sex toys or introduce them to the idea of sex.
(40:09) What is the right age to >> I think that it's up to the child to come to you >> with their questions. >> I think that we have to create a really safe space >> right >> so that they feel that they're safe because most kids have the internet today. They know far more than >> I do. >> Yeah. >> Honestly, >> I am always amazed at some of the things that my kids would come and tell me about.
(40:32) For instance, I did not know when Tarney told me that her first time that she had sex that she bled so much that she thought she was hemorrhaging and going to die. >> I didn't realize that that could happen right >> till she told me about it. >> So, like I said, I actually think that they know what they want to know. They need to feel safe enough to come to you.
(40:54) So like for instance, I work at my dining table. I've always got a pile of kamasutras on my dining table that I'm referring to. They're not hidden away. They're not at the back of a cupboard. They're on my dining table. >> And the only thing that that has done for my children is to know that it's not an abnormal conversation, >> right? >> And I think that's really important.
(41:14) But I feel like, you know, these books have been on my dining table as well over the past couple of weeks and my daughter's eight and she can read now and I thought, oh, should I because also she was going through my Q cards the other day and um, you know, I said maybe I should take away the ones that are related to this podcast because she might ask questions and I thought, okay, let me just and she came luckily she went through the Kirani ones and she did go through these [laughter] ones so she was asking other questions. Um, but what
(41:39) would be the right age, Lisa, do you think to have a like as you said, you know, you should wait for the child to come to you with questions and you should create a receptive atmosphere. And I'm thinking that there would be no question that I would shut down. No question ever at all. Um, I also feel like if there's literature lying around, I would not hide it from her.
(41:59) If she reads it and if she's able to um take something from it and has a question, then I would uh engage that. But these books are not lying on most people's dining tables. Uh and I feel like a lot of times children encounter things in schools and they may be slightly more diffident or not know how to approach the subject.
(42:19) I do think parents should be a safe space but some of them are not going to that safe space and a lot of their influences tend to be peers and friends that they talk to. >> I think most parents haven't overcome their own squeamishness around the subject. you have got to do the work of >> not being squeamish about sex for yourself so that you're not >> sort of like passing that on to your kid.
(42:44) So I think parents actually don't realize how powerful it is for a young person to have an adult or caregiver who they can ask questions and get accurate answers from. actually young people with access to um you know a parent or teacher somebody who's going to give them scientifically accurate judgment free answers they're known to actually delay having sex take less risks with their own or others health and safety and actually when you give people information it kind of >> makes it less interesting you are making it much more interesting by being like
(43:10) no >> yeah of course like yeah exactly you when you prohibit you eroticize I think there's so much extra interest in sex because it's so hush hush right you actually kind of take the appeal out of it a bit if you're just like huh >> right >> that's it's like the solar system this is how >> right >> you know reproduction works and not all sex is for babies we'll get to that in a bit I don't know whatever that >> age appropriate I think it's not a one time conversation it's an ongoing conversation it's great that you said at
(43:36) school they're already teaching a name >> in some schools >> scientifically in your daughter's school >> and so I think that there's so many opportunity it should be up for conversation whenever right maybe they see dogs mating on the street >> what are they doing mommy Right? >> You know, you might as well be able to explain, right, that mammals >> reproduce in this way, right? >> Or whatever without bl >> or you know, people will walk in on their kid masturbating or self soothing or whatever it is very young even and
(44:05) instead of whacking the kid or >> I don't know losing it, imagine if you didn't really react, maybe we just close the door when we do this thing and this is something you do alone and >> you explain in whatever way you're comfortable. I don't know what age we're talking at this point. I think you need to talk to your kids about porn too.
(44:21) I mean today the internet is so central to the architecture of the internet whe they like it or not they'll stumble upon it whether they weren't even looking you know. >> So media literacy of some sort I think is a parents responsibility at this rate. Even just understanding that not everything you see on the internet is true. You should have that conversation.
(44:38) So similarly you should also talk about adult media. >> I think parents ought to because like this stuff's going to happen by not acknowledging it. It's not not going to happen. So you can just prepare your kid. Right. >> Right. That leads me to ask a little bit about consent. Um because I again feel like that idea of rejection and how you handle it, how you self-regulate yourselves, um how respectful you are to yourself and to other people, it all is built at a very young age.
(45:04) Um before we get into consent um what are your thoughts on popular culture in India contributing to the idea of a lot of films in India do well um and they seem to have a man who's not fully tuned into what consent means um and I don't know and they do very well and they consistently do well and there are some other films that are romantic films um but they don't do so well but these sort of films which have an element of male toxicity they do very well.
(45:35) Why is that? >> Do you want to question? >> Just because that's the um that's the narrative that's been fed to us. It's the narrative that sounds easier. I mean, I was actually thinking, you know, there's this whole idea of the bad boy. For instance, I sometimes have women my age saying, "Oh, no, but I like the bad boy.
(45:54) " It's because popular media has romanticized the idea of what the bad boy is supposed to be. It's this impossibly powerful, strong, really soft on the inside, hard on the outside kind of guy who everybody respects and although he's so distant from everybody else, he really loves you to, you know, that whole crap. Yes. >> And it is crap >> because that's not how it is. Yeah.
(46:15) It's totally buzz. >> So I always say that every girl should date a toxic guy for a couple of months, get it out of her system to understand that that's not what you want. because that's really not what you want, >> right? >> But I think that popular media is it's feeding that narrative that a lot of people, you know, the world is changing.
(46:40) Women are now finding their voice. They're trying to say that this is what I like. This is not what I like. I will not put up with this. No, thank you very much. >> And for a lot of people, it feels like the easy power is slipping away. >> So this just kind of validates that that yeah, this is okay. Now, the problem for me with these films is not that they're showing somebody who's toxic, but how they end.
(47:04) >> Yes. >> With the woman saying, "Okay, fine. I'll accept you the way you are." >> And I think that's where the real problem is. >> Because you can show as much toxicity as you want. >> Nobody should go back thinking it'll end in that way because that's where the real problem for me is, >> right? Yeah.
(47:24) I think like the script around courtship also that we're fed heterosexual courtship anyway is that the man must pursue the woman must um you know sort of like >> of course she must be for >> send off the prop the sort of [gasps] >> yeah you there's this dance that you're kind of like programmed to believe that's how it should be.
(47:44) You can't say yes. Women shouldn't say yes, right? Women ought to say no even if they want to say yes. So then does no mean not mean the men think no doesn't mean yes. No means try harder, right? And maybe you know what we're allow if you really do have good communication with your partner as an adult >> you can play these games okay but not >> no >> I feel like we need a nuanced understanding of consent so that we're accommodating for all the complexity of this >> without um allowing for non you know assault or any of that to be romanticized
(48:19) >> and I think unfortunately this very easy like sort of simplistic fry model of consent or only yes means yes only no means no doesn't do sometimes what if it's a maybe you could be with someone even attracted to them maybe even in their bedroom you may have kissed and you can you can be married to them >> years and >> you can you can the thing can change the dynamic of what you want to do can change in a in a second and you're still allowed to not want to do something else or you know and we don't really allow
(48:47) for that level of nuance it's almost like if you If you've agreed to X, then you've, you know, we don't, I think, think about it deeply enough and we don't really give the um give consent the time it deserves. It's a very complicated topic. It isn't just easy topic of yes, only no, and only yes. And >> you know, just to interrupt you because um you know, in the beginning, of course, we said like if you're just talking about sex, you're um there's a sense of being vulnerable.
(49:13) You're exposed. um your inner traditional heterosexual act of sex, there'll be somebody who's perhaps more powerful than you. Uh so there's a lot going on whereby the idea that your word will be respected, your emotions, your feelings will be respected any stage of that act um I feel is sacred. But um the no, let's assume that people watching understand that when a woman says no, she she doesn't mean yes.
(49:45) Let's also understand if you know a woman is not saying anything, that's not equal to consent. >> Absolutely. But do women have enough power sometimes to say no when they >> Exactly. So that that's when So let's take those as givens and let's talk about the may because that is a huge gray area.
(50:02) Um, and as I was saying, even in your if you're in a relationship with somebody that you like and you respect and you um there's sometimes a reluctance, and I'm just going to talk about women here. Um, there of course all kinds of people, but um there are times when a woman might feel that she has to reluctantly say yes. She doesn't want to offend um her husband, her partner.
(50:28) Um so what can one do in that situation? One is the question see how does one firstly identify their own boundaries and how do you communicate that in a way that is respectful to yourself as well as to your partner. >> So I was just going to say that the first question that I tackled that's when I said okay this book is being written it's this woman who said that her husband who loves her very much she loves him decided that he wanted to watch her have sex with somebody else.
(50:52) So he wanted to be a cuckled. She says I didn't want to. Eventually, she agrees because she said, "I just thought fine, I'll do it for him." So, she doesn't want to, but it's that usual this thing. I love him. I've said no. He's still asking again and again, right? >> So, that coercive consent gets pushed in.
(51:12) >> They then go to a different country. They hire a bull >> and a bull, a a man to have sex so that he can watch. So, this the term is bull. I see. where this guy is brought in to have sex with the woman. Um, and the husband watches and she says that while they were doing it, even though I didn't want to, I enjoyed it.
(51:32) There was pleasure. Now they've come back and she thinks, "Okay, I've done it to please him. Now it'll stop." He, on the other hand, found it really exciting. He wants to get more experimental. >> Now the problem has started where she's like, >> "If I say no, >> will he then do it anyway?" because you know he wants to I feel like we're so much closer but in fact what she's telling me is that she's more frightened in saying anything but finally she says how can I say no because when I was doing it he could see I was enjoying
(52:06) myself so I feel guilty I don't have the I don't have the right to say no >> anymore >> and I think when we were talking about how nuanced consent is >> I just want to reiterate and I think this will have to be repeated many many many times. It's like a lot of people say to me that for the longest time they believed because the boyfriend the husband was saying the vagina's become loose from having too much sex the vagina.
(52:33) Finally after listening to you I've said no that doesn't happen. So maybe we have to just keep repeating it. But I want to say that like Lisa was saying no is yes or no is not written in stone. >> Yeah. It is totally up to you to um decide when you want to change your yes to no or your no to yes. >> So the first thing is that you have to understand that even if you have said yes and you want to say no and if you feel that you won't be able to say it beforehand.
(53:05) So we talk about boundaries almost as punishments but say it beforehand say because a lot of people are like no I won't try this because what if I don't like it >> right? Tell your partner, "I'm saying yes because you really want to try it, but if I don't like it, I will say no." And you have to respect that. >> Yes. >> Put it in words.
(53:24) Unfortunately, we're not saying it enough. We're assuming it'll happen. >> Yes. >> Put it in words. And at no point, you know, the body is able to enjoy something. Sometimes it's conscious, sometimes it's unconsciously that you enjoy something whether you enjoyed it or not. If you don't want to do it again, it is your right to not do it again.
(53:41) >> Right? And I think that we have to learn that boundaries actually keep us safe. >> They're not to punish the other person. Somebody actually said to me the other day, "But don't you think there are just too many boundaries being set now? It's just too many bound." Okay, maybe [clears throat] we just don't know how to set boundaries yet.
(54:00) So, we're setting a lot of boundaries. As we learn, some boundaries will stay hard, some will be soft. They can be negotiated. >> Go in with full boundaries. It is absolutely okay. There is no such thing as too many boundaries. >> That's useful to know because I feel again a lot of people don't want to seem annoying, inconvenient, and then discarded for someone who is more pliable.
(54:21) >> Exactly. >> Which happens. There's so many narratives that you referred to that I wanted you to talk about a little bit. Um, one was the sexually confident woman being up for it. Um, you also referred to, you know, somebody who approached you and um, and then said, "Now, if I follow you, people are going to assume I'm that kind of person.
(54:38) " the woman always not being in the mood. Um faking a headache. The man always being in the mood. These are some narratives that um stereotypes >> stereotypes. Um the uh idea also of honor and virginity which I know you've spoken about but if you can just speak about it a little bit over here. I know there's a lot of you but just some of these stereotypes that we have in our minds.
(55:02) Can we please? >> Yeah. I mean there's this sort of Madonna complex I think when um assessing women right people will think that if a woman is sexually confident then um she has relinquished the right to deny anyone access to sex you're wearing a mini skirt you smoke cigarettes you party you there's a what can women do >> yes >> that isn't perceived of as an invitation like pray tell anyway so of course that's ridiculous we'll judge even you know if a politician is on the beach in bikini.
(55:33) Even in other countries, they get judged for that kind of thing, right? They can try and skew an election by digging out some evidence that she has a sexuality. They do that every time any female uh figure runs for office, which is ridiculous when you think about like the respectability politics of female sexuality are such that you have to pretend you don't have a sexuality to be respectable or if you do acknowledge your sexuality.
(55:55) You're basically >> an object for all to consume, right? You're not allowed to be the sub. You're not allowed to be in control. >> Yes. And so I think that firstly you can you know nobody is always up for sex not men not women. So this the opposite of that that the man is the sort of hunter who's always looking for prey and and almost it's almost predatory the stereotypes around male sexuality which I think does men a disservice too.
(56:17) It's silly that men think that this is serving them. You know, like the player slat dichotomy with men being kind of applauded for having had a lot of uh partner being able to is is not serving them at all. Most men actually have not very much sexual experience, >> right? And so they feel really insecure about this when anyway sex is not a blood sport, right? >> It shouldn't have to be seen in that light at all.
(56:43) So I think that the stereotypes actually don't serve anyone. many somehow men seem to think that like patriarchy serves them, but it really doesn't. No, >> it really doesn't. And so a more equal and um multifaceted view of I think everyone's sexuality. Men can want it or not want it. Women can want it or not want it.
(57:02) And you can be both respectable and sexual um is what I'm hoping to and also gender isn't even binary. Yes. >> Um, you know, where do we like everything most of us have learned about sex and gender is limited at best and inaccurate at worst. So I think if people can set that aside, I always like to encourage people to think of their sexuality as a garden.
(57:22) Emily Nagoski has this wonderful metaphor in her book, Come as You Are, where you know, you um receive certain elements of this garden without your um consent. Yeah. >> In the sense your your family, your culture, whatever environment you've grown up in has ensured that certain plants and trees and weeds are already in there.
(57:47) But as an adult and or you know as you become a more sort of self self-aware being you get to nurture that garden the way that you want it to be right so you can take out some things and plant other things and ultimately you want a thriving beautiful >> garden of Yeah. And so, and I think people ought to think about it like that because I think most people think of it as some sort of like much more static um I don't think they acknowledge how much agency they deserve.
(58:16) >> Yes. >> You know, it's almost like this is just it. This is how it is. This is nature. >> When so much is actually conditioning, not nature at all of what we, you know, even the differences between men and women. I we do a lot >> to to be the way we I don't wake up with no hair and on my legs or like do you know what I mean? No.
(58:35) like the things we do to conform to femininity, >> I think actually and men to masculinity emphasize differences that aren't naturally there, >> right? >> Um whereas people have all of these ideas around that men and women are so >> different. >> Yeah. Naturally different. You know, women are supposed to be de >> Yeah.
(58:55) Do we should we talk a little bit about the virginity honor or is it >> Oh, yeah. So, do you want Sorry, I've talked so much. >> No, no, go ahead. Um, I mean I again so rooted in patriarchy, right? The idea that women's virginity is somehow this location of the whole family's honor, even the nation's honor. I mean, unfortunately, rape has been used as a tool of war for that reason, too.
(59:14) And I think super patriarchal. Um, unfortunately, we're still stuck with this idea, but in a pre-DNA testing time, the only way you could be sure that your son was your son is if you make sure the woman is her father's property until she becomes a husband's property. >> Chastity belts. if you have a lesson >> and anyway um marriage is a economic institution historically it's you have cows I have goats now we have cows and goats and the kids can inherit the cows and goats and it's still I mean the wealthiest families in India still
(59:41) operate like that quite frankly so I think I mean all echelons but even the wealthiest so I think like actually in so many ways so little has changed in the way that we view >> um women's agency particularly but also just the purpose of relationships or sex So >> yeah, >> you know, all of these things.
(1:00:00) And so it it um unfortunately this idea that virginity is something you have to protect and um something that you're kind of in charge of not only for your own like for for what's good for you, but your whole family. Imagine having to think about your whole family. >> If who you have sex with is a reflection of your whole family.
(1:00:18) That's like that's a lot of baggage, right? >> Um and also what why why who cares um who I'm having sex with or when why is it any reflection on anything? And and the um overemphasis on this small amount of tissue, the highman, as if it's proof >> of virginity is also completely unscientific, >> right? >> You know, you don't have to bleed the first time you have sex.
(1:00:40) Some people don't, some people do. >> No. Yeah. >> And many times the result um bleeding is actually the result of insufficient lubrication and injury. There's vaginal injury causing bleeding, not the himman rupturing. It's not a wall that just breaks. It's a stretchy tissue, more like a scrunchie.
(1:00:55) So there's people who in their you know can die with himal tissue still intact at their 90s and then there's some people very who were born without him tissue. >> So the amount of just like misinformation around the science as well as this social ide these ideas of women as the you know vehicles of the whole nation and family's honor and all of it.
(1:01:16) It's just so I mean it really frustrates me. >> There is this weird person not naming names on the internet. They >> like you to name names on this podcast. No, I I noticed but there was this real uh during the rounds that this guy is saying, "Yeah, if a girl says too quickly that she'll have sex with me, >> I'm not interested in her because she's she's okay for sex, but you know, um yeah, I that's not the kind of guy because I that's not kind of girl I want.
(1:01:42) Somebody who's saying >> to marry. >> Yeah, that I don't want to marry her because I'm looking for a relationship." And I was thinking, have you ever considered that the girl might say like, so you're rejecting this woman because she was happy to have sex with you too soon according to you? >> Shouldn't the woman also be saying this guy says yes to sex for anybody? I don't think I want to marry him.
(1:02:05) When did that not why did that not enter anybody's head to think that yeah, I'm sorry. Why could we not have the same >> standard >> standards if that was the standard that you want to go by? Yeah, >> like I just think that this idea of virginity, this, you know, it's the ultimate objectification, right? That >> I will buy this brand new genitalia.
(1:02:29) I will bring it in and then I will walk over this and leave my footprints. That's not how it bloody well happens. You know, it it's just this this ridiculous notion of this is girlfriend material, this is wife material, she's a virgin, >> and this is something you save for. >> Yeah.
(1:02:51) And therefore, I will respect her more. But the girl that I'm really attracted to, the independent one who earns, who makes me laugh, who loves me, who has wonderful sex with me, I will not marry her because I will have sex for the rest of my life with somebody that I don't want to. And then I would go and have an affair, >> right, >> with the person that I liked in the first person.
(1:03:10) >> That's what you're setting yourself up for. >> Um, and it's all comes down to that one little bit of like Lisa said, the highman. >> Yeah. >> So, there's uh we had a guy write that chapter on highman's. Apparently, it is the uh consistency of a wet face tissue. >> It is that thin and useless, >> right? >> And of course, it has >> the weight of the world lies on this.
(1:03:35) I always think you know like family your mother your father your you know your manu everybody everybody's honor is sitting over there >> can you imagine just carrying that in your vagina no wonder vagina's become loose [laughter] honestly it's just something that really bothers me that a your son a a boy in the family can go out harass rape abuse beat.
(1:04:04) >> Yes. >> It's not even a thing. >> No, it's a as you said a stud. >> Yeah. He becomes a stud. >> Yes. >> But a girl looks at somebody else and suddenly she >> we you know when this thing happened with my daughter I was saying about the a lot of bleeding. So there was um a case last year in India or was it year before this young woman who bled to death first time sex.
(1:04:29) So she had sex for the first time, bled so much, must have got some kind of injury. >> Hemorrhage. >> Hemorrhaged. The boyfriend had no idea what was happening. They were too frightened to call anybody. So he's googling this. By the time he took her to the hospital, she bled to death. So we made this real to say that it can happen.
(1:04:50) And then we made a real with the gyn saying, "What is too much? How should it be?" Like at what point do you feel that this is Dr. consultation right now and you know so if it's still gushing if it starts to clot then you know it's starting to stop etc etc I had people writing to me saying but your daughter is not married how could you let her do this I am there was one woman who actually said I love you but I'm hyperventilating I'm so distressed how can it be that you're okay with it ma'am it's like I'm sorry but to me that doesn't define her vagina doesn't define
(1:05:24) her >> literally as human beings are we not as women human beings anymore like I have a face I have facial characteristics I have other things I have limbs but all you can see is a vagina >> and I think that's where my serious issue with this is so in your book the sex book you have [laughter] in the sex book um there's a wonderful chapter on basically you describe the anatomy and everything else but you say these are all the things you need to know much before you get naked and one of the things that you talk about is
(1:05:54) also the legal age to get married the age of consent etc. So I don't know how many people know what it is in India, how low it goes in parts of the world which I was shocked by. Angola is 12. >> Yeah. So the the question of what is the right age to have sex is one to which there isn't an easy answer and even legislators globally have not come to a consensus on this.
(1:06:17) So when you think of so the the age of consent in India is 18 meaning people under 18 are thought to be too young to be able to give informed consent. So all sex even if between minors similar in age is not okay. And actually I think the poxole law which is a prevention of sexual offenses against children law uh is trying to have more nuance there because let's say you're 17 and your partner's 16 and you really love each other and you've decided that you both want to do this thing.
(1:06:45) Should who goes to jail and why? And but if you're 16 or 17 and a 40year-old is trying to have sex with you, the 40-year-old should definitely go to jail, right? So there's like Romeo and Juliet laws where there's different um attitudes to minors similar in age in a consensual romantic situation and different laws for adults abusing children >> which makes sense to me but even so across the world the age of consent itself can differ vastly and some of the more you know quote unquote developed countries let's say uh Scandinavian
(1:07:14) countries Germany what places which have the highest development you know score highest on the development indices have much lower age of consent it's it's often 14 or 15 in some of these these countries which means um they're they're thinking that by that age you should be allowed to make decisions around your own sexual activity yourself.
(1:07:32) Um on the other hand you know in India at one point it was 12 and then in the interest of women's rights it was increased to I think 16 and then 18 in in and in some countries I forget exactly which one but I think there's some Middle Eastern countries where it's as high as 21 25 you said it >> so thank you you thank you so I wrote it a few years ago.
(1:07:51) Um, [laughter] but I think what this all points to is that it isn't an easy question to answer and that really you have to there's a a trade-off between respecting the agency of young people. You know, a 16-year-old is not an idiot. I mean, in many countries at 16 there was a time when I mean some of our own ancestors probably got married at like 13, right? Not to say child marriage is okay, but we've changed our mind on this even in the last hundred years, even in this country.
(1:08:21) So I I think that um there's a a a sort of trade-off between a rightsbased approach for young for youth to have autonomy and then protecting them also from what they're not ready for. >> Right? I >> I imagine that as a parent you've got to I mean in general in India we're so squeamish about teenage sexuality. We don't want to pretend like nobody's having sex till they get married.
(1:08:39) That's just plainly false. So no matter what the law is, I think it would be it would do us well to recognize that people, you know, puberty is a sexual um coming of age, right? And and you can get your period as young as 10 even. Yes, that's so to to equip people with information to to be that safe space to and as I was saying, information is power.
(1:09:01) you equip people to delay having sex till they're emotionally and physically mature and feel ready for it instead of feeling like it's this thing they got to try cuz like you know like alcohol even becomes oh I can't wait to try I don't drink I'm 35 I still don't drink cuz I grew up in go my parents never tried they never said it was something I can't do I just had no appeal for me I saw so many drunk adults it was like I don't need to I don't need to do that you know >> so you really the harder you like resist the ball the higher it bounces whereas
(1:09:28) if you just >> acknowledge reality. I think you really set your kids on a much more secure path to ensuring their own safety and wellbeing. >> Absolutely. And oh my god, sorry. No, I have to just say, Lisa, that's so funny because when I was um 17, I think my mom started saying to me, "Oh, you must learn to drink socially because, you know, we go to all these.
(1:09:49) " I still don't drink. I was like, I see I rebelled. >> Oh, I [laughter] see. Actually, wasn't demonized in your household? >> No, not at all. But um I was 14 when one of my classmates also 14 was married off and uh the following year both she and her mom were pregnant. So yeah, it still happens. >> Yeah, it does still happen.
(1:10:09) It does still happen. I wanted to move a little bit away from that to you personally and I don't know if I'm allowed to ask. I know you've spoken about this >> but um uh I may be wrong. You said that marriage is not definitely mandatory for you, marriage and children as it shouldn't be for anybody. Um, have you decided not to marry? >> I'm really lucky to have no family pressure in that regard.
(1:10:33) I think most people just get shunted off on the marriage train whether they like it or not. Luckily, not once have I ever had to fend that off from my parents. So, I feel like that really lucky. I recognize that privilege. I wish it wasn't a privilege though. Most people have to make that decision before they're even um you know before they even know themselves.
(1:10:51) >> No. And a lot of people don't even consider um a life without a partner. >> Exactly. But I think you can have a partner and still not marry. I don't necessarily not want a partner or a long like somebody I share my life with. And I have had that. I've had long relationships. I've lived with a partner.
(1:11:10) I I'm a huge fan of I'm a sucker for love. Yeah. And and I I think that the friendship and like the the what proximity and everyday um interaction can do for a relationship is a beautiful thing. So it's not to say that I never want anyone or I don't think I need anyone. Um I want a hug at the end of the day for sure. But do I need the states intervention? Do we need to deal do I want to deal with his family? No, thank you.
(1:11:32) To me marriage is like do I want to I I have my own family to deal with quite frankly and you don't have to deal with them either, right? Like your mom can be your problem and my mom can be mine. You know, >> she might be a nice person. >> She might be, but like I there's too I don't have room right now honestly to like deal with expectations of one other.
(1:11:50) >> It's like some people I didn't even know till yesterday. >> I think that sounded horrible, but do you know what I mean? Marriage is such a union of families here. Your relationship stops being about just the two of you. Also, opting out is so much harder. I think, you know, people take each other for granted because now it's like we're stuck with each other.
(1:12:07) I want every day to feel like a choice. We're together. We could both just go our separate ways if we choose or choose to be together. >> And that's just sort of what I highlight that there is an there is a a a universe where that is possible if you want it to have >> I mean I'm lucky to have that choice. I think so many women are denied economic agency.
(1:12:26) Marriage becomes your >> like secure, you know, you're not you're not allowed to work. Yes. >> Even in 2025, people will be like I'm so lucky my in-laws allow me to work allow. >> Yes. >> But that's reality for so many people. So I think especially if you you are making your own money, >> you like what is marriage bringing to the table for me? I'm not convinced there's any benefits.
(1:12:44) It's only going to curb my agency, >> right? >> So >> but um and you've also said I think that um if someone were to get married, it might be interesting. It might be advisable to have sex before they get married because that would be >> you should right >> because sexual compatibility matters, right? out.
(1:13:07) I think that and that brings me to relationships and you just celebrated your 40th anniversary without killing your husband. [laughter] Um and um it's for me let's there different kinds of relationships. Of course I'm in a long-term monogous heterosexual relationship. I think it's incredibly challenging. Um maybe we weren't supposed to be married for so long.
(1:13:28) We were supposed to die at the age of 40 I think [laughter] at some point. >> I love you are being so real so high. I think I think it is tough to be and you will know better. >> It definitely is. >> It's tough. It's extremely tough. And the thing is that I know that we say, "Oh, we weren't meant to be monogous." Um I think that for me monogamy means something slightly different.
(1:13:49) So I think that we choose monogamy a lot of times when you are with a partner in a long-term relationship. I personally would like I think most people actually do want it to be monogous because it makes you feel more secure. Your partner is with you because they wish to be with you. You're the first person in their life and you know it's a desire and it is something that we do consciously.
(1:14:12) It's not just because it's a social norm. I think what we forget is that as human beings we're going to be attracted to other people. >> Yes. Now, that is a very natural thing. At every point in your life, you're going to find somebody else attractive. You may want to um have one conversation with them at one point and then you're okay.
(1:14:40) Sometimes that feeling, that excitement for that other person lasts a little bit longer. That's okay too. My point is that it is very natural. Now whenever I say this so there are a lot of people who will jump in and say oh people aren't meant to be monogous. Oh you know the moment I say yeah but you're going to get attracted to other people. Suddenly I'm the bad person.
(1:15:00) So I get trolled heavily for saying that you're going to get attracted to other people. You have to then make a decision on how you deal with that. That's where you become the responsible adult who has a long-term relationship, who has an understanding of what that relationship means for the two of you.
(1:15:19) You make your decision based on that. >> Mhm. >> So, I find that in any other relationship structure, we have rules. >> Yes. No matter what, whether it is a a shared um kink and BDSM bond, yeah, >> whether it is polyamory, whether it is a gay relationship, whether it is a whatever it is, >> there are a huge number of rules that tell you how to be with a heterosexual relationship.
(1:15:46) There are no rules that tell you or guide you on what to do. You're thrown into this and expected to be. >> And honestly, I I say this all the time. Nobody taught me how to be in a relationship. Nobody advised or guided and you need a lot of guidance like you need to understand how to deal with certain things. The only thing I was told by my aunt just when I was getting married she said beta um don't ever go to sleep on a fight.
(1:16:12) >> Yeah great okay but how how like if I am fighting with him how do I talk that >> like tell me. So I feel that we do such a disservice to people who have like a heterosexual relationship. You expect most of the world to live in those relationships. We don't tell people how to make it successful.
(1:16:37) All the different things that go into making it good, making it worth waking up the next morning with the same person and wanting to go to sleep with the same person the next night. >> Yes. >> Tell me how to do it. >> Yes. Tell me how to put down my boundaries. Tell me how to deal with certain things. Tell me about what is likely to happen, >> right? >> And in those scenarios, what do I do to deal with it? Because like you said, I got married at 23. I didn't know.
(1:17:05) I came from much like Lisa, a family that didn't put me. I mean, I had my identity as a woman. My mother, my grandmother, my great-grandmother were all working women, all highly educated. We believed in the rights and entity of womanhood. I've come into a world where I mean fortunately, okay, my husband comes from a similar kind of background, but there's still a world around us.
(1:17:29) Tell me how to deal with this. Tell me about the shit that I'm likely to face from certain other members of the family and how to deal with. I didn't know how to deal with any of that. So, who was your go-to person? >> Nobody. Which is why you book to be written. [laughter] But then how did you achieve all this agency and this >> with a lot of a lot of tears, a lot of fights, a lot of problems, a lot of everything going wrong till finally somewhere inside you, you kind of slowly discover who you are. Luckily, the two
(1:18:00) of us come from families where we have a certain amount of agency that we come into life with. >> Yeah. >> So maybe that kicks in at some point. Maybe the ability that you have this education, you can do whatever you want with your education. Maybe that kicks in. I don't know. But I know a lot of people who'd like to be in that same situation but can't because they don't know how to be over there.
(1:18:21) >> And honestly, I was saying to earlier, I'm glad I haven't killed him. >> But nobody taught me how to actually and we went through really bad patches in our marriage, too, because nothing is going to be roses and >> gardens the same. And you're not the same people. over 40 years old. >> Yeah, absolutely.
(1:18:41) I wake up a different person every single day. So does he. We are not the same people. We are going to encounter other issues. There is stress, fatigue, other circumstances. Call it whatever you want. Disagreements. We disagree on politics. Oh my god. We have opposing opposing views on politics. Um and we fight a lot over it.
(1:19:04) The only good thing is that we've learned that it's okay to fight over it because we did at one [clears throat] point go silent and that's when the marriage had started to crumble. You know when the cannibals they always say that while they're out there wrestling and drumming and so on, you're fine. When they go silent, you know that's when they're coming to hook you.
(1:19:24) [laughter] Yeah. That's what happens in >> marriage. [laughter] >> No, but when when you go silent on each other, that is >> Yeah. >> That's the downhill path, >> right? >> But yeah, nobody and our marriage is still very much an experiment, >> right? >> All the way because we really don't know what we're doing wrong, >> right? >> Or what we're doing right now.
(1:19:50) People go to relationship counselors, marriage, marriage therapists, some a small amount. >> I'm married to a half Punjabi, half Cindi who 73 years old from Delhi. He ain't going to a relationship therapist. >> But then you're communicating. I mean like how do you overcome those hurdles? >> With a lot of fighting like I said.
(1:20:09) But yeah, I mean I have just learned to be this person who who talks a lot. I mean, we kind of somewhere along the way decided that we would make an effort for our marriage. So, we make that effort. It's not ideal, but we make that effort. It's bloody hard work. >> I think just acknowledging that it's hard work for a lot of people.
(1:20:28) Marriage might be okay. There should be an endless honeymoon. There should be endless and and because this conversation is rooted in sex and physical intimacy. Again the monogous aspect um of a relationship and what makes it challenging is like for example you said at the beginning that there will be attraction to other people.
(1:20:48) It's how you choose to deal with that and whether you act on it or not or what your boundaries are your communication with your partner uh etc. So little bit about um you can help me structure it actually different phases of womanhood postpartum permenopause menopause these are things that you may not know much about but someday you will um uh the permenopause and menopause part I mean um and also the mismatch libidos that can happen at any point in a relationship it can happen does it happen okay let me try to add some finesse to this. Um, what is
(1:21:28) sexual compatibility in chemistry? I'll ask you first, Lisa. >> What is sexual compatibility in chemistry? I think it's a combination of both a um physical and an emotional affinity. You know, there's a magnetism that ideally two people should feel for each other both for the way that they're I actually the way I like to explain it is tan, man, and bil.
(1:21:49) Okay? It should all align. I think when I felt truly like powerfully attracted to someone, there's just like this force field, you know, and it's not just physical. Often for me actually to be really attracted to someone, it's because I'm first interested in their mind, >> but then it doesn't hurt if they also are attractive in this.
(1:22:09) It I've never been personally um that drawn to conventional good looks. It doesn't, you know, you don't have to look like a male Barbie doll to be attractive or any bob, any gender Barbie doll is not actually what people find to be a sufficient um prerequisite for attraction, right? It's so much more than that.
(1:22:28) So, I I think that unfortunately when it comes to marriage, we don't really consider this. I hope people today have a bit more agency in that regard where they can at least be honest with whoever's because arranged marriage is still the way 90% of people get married in this country. I would hope that people are now allowing for young people to acknowledge that chemistry both intellectual and physical matters but you know first what matters is same religion same cast so >> it's it's narrowing down your >> it's a bit >> it's it chemistry is not at the top of
(1:22:57) the priority list right but um and also most people don't even get to opt out of marriage I mean until recently it was unthinkable I think even my very progressive parents and they had a love marriage I don't think being the words spinster and bachelor were like weird words these weird people 40 and unmarried are you kidding me like that was a failure a social failure right so I think sorry to digress but I think that with regards to compatibility it's quite a new idea that this matters >> the idea was just you marry off your
(1:23:26) children and want to settle down and they have more children and reproduction is the they'll reproduce with whoever right >> the compatibility is not a prerequisite for baby >> but actually maybe enjoying the >> but what about enjoying the exactly and so I think that um if we if we do pay attention to what makes us feel alive sexually, right? Because you asked about mismatch and libido um and also just what the sort of es and flows of desire within a long-term relationship.
(1:23:54) It's interesting how even if it was like insane chemistry when you just met it can fade also or it can have its crests and troughs like it's not a static thing, right? You have to kind of operate in this um con consistent >> um work. It takes work. You have to you have to make sure that your chemistry is a priority.
(1:24:13) >> It's amazing how chemistry can ban if I'm disres if someone shows disrespect to me any it evaporates. I mean you can do one thing and like >> gone gone right like a switch off. >> Yeah. >> So how are you going to make sure you don't turn that switch off? >> Because the difference between me when I'm really attracted to someone and me when I'm disinterested is vast.
(1:24:33) Like you could be invisible now dude. You disrespect like really no interest at all. Right. And that can happen in marriages. It happens in marriages. So often unfortunately absolutely where you have zero chemistry because often a sing there's sometimes years of resentment that have calcified but sometimes there's a single action.
(1:24:49) >> Yeah. >> Um >> yeah it's so true and then you know like I don't know which one to ask first about the different life stages. For example as a marriage or a woman goes through different stages in life um it also affects her sexual appetite her libido. Is that true? Is that not true? postpartum for example, per menopause, menopause >> for sure.
(1:25:10) But I actually want to say that I think once again we make it a very binary conversation. >> So once again, we've been fed this idea of chemistry that you look at somebody and then it's just oh it's just that wildest thing over there. >> We don't say that there can be an equal amount of chemistry which is really mellow.
(1:25:32) There can be a comfort factor with the two of you which can just lead to really comfortable, happy, good sex which is equally good >> and that if you find that the libido is dropping or whatever that there is a conversation to be had for that so we don't talk about that >> we also don't talk about so for instance there is um a question in there which I want to bring up just to explain this to you young couple she wrote to me saying that he cheated on Now she said finally when I asked him he said oh he sent somebody nudes and you know there was this whole sort of thing
(1:26:08) he said you've become very religious and so my libido for you dropped so she said I have started doing j and I've started doing fasts which is quite a popular thing right now he said to her that that made my libido drop but then I had this thing with this other woman and that's made my libido come back up and so everything is fixed and she's like literally dying saying was it my fault >> and did he fix it by cheating? >> Mhm.
(1:26:40) >> And I just wanted to say like this is where you know the I mean it's very easy to see how much gaslighting is going on over there. >> But it's also the cultural conditioning. We have been taught that spirituality and sexuality do not mix. We've been taught that if somebody is being more religious, you have to respect them.
(1:26:59) You cannot be sexually attracted to them. >> We have been taught that if that desire for somebody goes down, there's not a conversation to be had that you then go out and look for somebody that you suddenly feel like this about. >> Right? >> So, we are already coming into a relationship with all of this this um stereotypes, right? The other is that what actually happens in a relationship I find like you have you're dating, you've got a great sex life, things are wonderful.
(1:27:35) You then go into a committed relationship. Suddenly sex takes on a whole different burden because now there is this thing that has to grow with you. It has to mean something special. This is what's going to create that bond that's going to keep you together. The amount of pressure there is to make what was fun and carefree into something that is so meaningful.
(1:27:56) >> Yes, >> it kind of destroys most people's desire >> to even go there. We also don't talk about the fact that there could be a time when you just do not want what we define as sex, which is envelopment, >> right? >> You know, we don't want the one genital going into another genital. There are other things too that make it really, really nice.
(1:28:19) is we are not allowed to have a conversation saying I absolutely cannot deal with this right now. But what I truly want to keep that spark going so that we can pick it up at some point is that I have these this level of cuddles with you. I want to take penetration off the table. We don't talk about any of that. We just kind of believe that sex should be there.
(1:28:42) It should always be amazing. You should always feel it. If it's not happening, something is wrong with you. I'm going to go and look for chemistry elsewhere. >> Right. >> It's so cut and dried. And yes, when you go into pmenopause, the hormones start to go funny. >> Yeah. >> Your brain becomes fogged in. >> Yes. >> And if nothing else, that stops you from wanting to have sex because you can't feel the arousal in your body anymore.
(1:29:11) >> No. >> It's the way that your body just changes. You actually can't feel it. And again, like with men, as they get older, their thing is they, you know, they go through this wild sort of this thing of wanting to have sex like they were when they were 20. Nobody says it's going to change. >> How you feel desire is going to change.
(1:29:29) You're not going to go back to feeling the same way. >> But then men's testosterone levels also decline. >> Absolutely. But even as a woman, how I feel desire is going to change. It's not going to go away forever. It is going to be different. It is slower. I want something else. I need something else just to get me going, turn me on.
(1:29:48) These are conversations that we're not prepared to have. >> No, >> we have now understood that come menopause, you don't feel like having sex, there's a hormonal dryness. >> Yes. >> The dryness makes you and >> that's a physical obstacle. >> Yeah. It makes you so miserable you cannot actually cope with and that it's not just in the vagina, it's everywhere in your body.
(1:30:12) There's just there's chaos going on. >> It does come back. >> Yes, >> it does come back. But you have to bring it back very slowly. You have to kind of give it a little bit of help. You've now got to start using a lot of lube. Lisa does an incredible lube with coconut oil, which I would recommend highly. But you know what I mean? Like use that use get your doctor to give you vaginal estrogen.
(1:30:35) >> I was going to say vaginal estrogen can be a game changer. >> It is. It absolutely is. But also figure out where the changes in your arousal are because arousal is going to be so much slower. And more importantly, and I really want to make a point of this, you might look at your partner and you may be going through one of those days when you suddenly feel very aroused, like it's very quick.
(1:30:58) That doesn't mean your body is ready. The body takes time. The arousal doesn't mean that the blood flow has gone in the right quantity to your genitalia. >> You're not ready, right? You still need more time to get there. Get a good solid half hour of good foreplay before the blood goes down over there properly and it will be a pleasurable experience for you.
(1:31:18) >> Right? >> And finally, and I think this is really important. So the Kamsutra says that before you begin sex at all, like before you even begin the kissing or the foreplay, you have to bring your mind to each other. Okay? because your brain is on the email you didn't send and the deal you didn't sign and so on.
(1:31:38) >> So it says talk to each other about naughty stories of gossip like tell each other gossip. >> And what that does is anything that makes you go no you know where suddenly now you're with each other. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Similarly when you finish it says you should tell each other sweet stories. stories that make you feel really cozy and comfortable and loved by the other person because that how you finish this time is how quickly your partner will want to come back to your bed the next time.
(1:32:10) >> Right. It's true. And that memory of how it ended is what brings you back. And I think if you can create that positive >> absolutely and for me my advice always is that yes if sex has become a chore it's become painful it's become whatever but you're doing it to keep that relationship going >> focus on the bit that you really like and extend that extend that bit you will go back for that bit next time I went through a long phase of really not enjoying the penetration part of it but I loved our after chat to the point
(1:32:42) where it was so nice that I kept making that longer. I would be happy to have sex just for that bit for a long long time. >> Yeah. >> And I think it's so important to like we said earlier, Lisa made a point of saying about becoming so aware of what your body wants and likes >> become aware of what your mind and body need >> for you to feel desire.
(1:33:05) >> Yeah. Lisa, is there a golden rule or an average number of times a couple should have sex? >> I actually think there's no golden almost no golden rules in sex. I mean, there's some general best practices, but for one, what might be too little for one couple might be too much for another.
(1:33:26) And so, I think it's really for two people to figure out together. I think also different people can have different um levels of appetites. And sometimes and it's not the stereotype is that men always wanted more women but the number of women who will write to me also saying that my I don't think my husband can cope with my level of >> horniness and it kind of embarrasses me.
(1:33:46) What do I do about it? Um, so I think yeah, it can be there's no gender or um there's no rules really about who wants more, who wants less, or what the right amount is, but I think it's worth people recognizing that whoever that the person with the let's say lower sex drive gets to dictate how often feels right. Right.
(1:34:06) I mean, you don't I think unless, as you were saying, that there's something that they enjoy so much that they're willing to do it very consensually, even if they'd be good with less. I think in general, you don't want to be forcing your partner to have sex ever. >> And so, if the sex is good, they're more likely to want to have it.
(1:34:22) I think a lot of men also just don't >> focus on women's pleasure enough. So, sex feels like a chore, even though they're really yearning for that physical intimacy. You know, it's like if you're hungry, but only dog food's on offer, you're just going to learn to not eat, >> right? And I think that that unfortunately that that's true for a lot of that that's a common um malaise >> which brings me to female pleasure and female orgasm but just >> maybe like once a week. I don't know.
(1:34:49) Impossible. >> Say like I was just saying like just to make some some monogous couples feel like oh at least once them. Yeah. >> What do you think? Once I mean for me once a week at least >> that's your rule to [laughter] say it's >> kind of hard to make time also if you have a job and like >> and children. >> Children. Yeah.
(1:35:08) It's really so I feel you. I would go for quality over quantity. >> Yeah. >> So scheduling sex I know you've said is okay to do. It's not unromantic >> and um like you look forward to certain things. If you dress up and you make it a date um you give it that importance like you schedule things that are important for you. Um >> agree >> doctor's appointments and sex.
(1:35:28) >> Yeah. >> Holidays. >> Schedule them. [laughter] >> Plan them you know >> and plan them. So that's all right. Um so the in your older book the art of seduction I would say that there's 64 skills. >> Yeah I have one I think which is physical fitness. It's number 64. How can physical fitness be number 64? Firstly, number one is singing.
(1:35:49) >> Singing, dancing. >> I think we need to change some of them. >> Oh, no. I don't have >> I have no So, I want to just Okay. I want to make this easier for >> Yeah, please. So, the 64 skills. So, the Kamsutu was written for men, which means that the 64 skills were not just for women to acquire, they're for men as well.
(1:36:10) Now the idea of the 64 skills which are so diverse which include everything from learning foreign languages to doing word riddles, playing chess, um singing, dancing, bot, zoologology. >> It was they're all there. It was about growing your personality. It was about developing your personality so that you become a more desirable, exciting person.
(1:36:32) Like Lisa said, you have somebody who's traditionally conventionally good-looking and yeah, it may be the most gorgeous looking human. You can look at them for about 10, 15 minutes. What then, right? You have to have something that connects you. So the more subjects that you could talk on, the more exciting you became, the more interesting you became as a person.
(1:36:53) That was the idea of the 64 skills. Now um they are not 64 ways to have sex. They're literally how to develop your personality to become a more desirable lover. >> Right? >> You then have something called the panchalikica chhatushi chhatushist. Okay, I can never get that word right. But basically the 64 skills are the panchalikica cortisans >> right >> which are not over here because my work is based on research and this research is very hard to come by.
(1:37:27) So I discovered the panchalikica cortisan skills much after and there were basically how to translate each of those skills into the bedroom right it was that simple. So for instance um I love this one bit which is the shyen ranam the art of making the bed which for a lot of people is like oh you make it look beautiful because people don't know how to translate the metaphors right >> but in fact it was the art of folding down your bed in such a way that you told your partner what mood you were in right >> whether you were happy angry or
(1:38:00) indifferent >> right >> then your partner understanding what mood you were in figured out how to approach Now, that was called communication. >> Yes. And the difficult conversations you may not want to have verbally, but you can do it with your bed sheets. >> Yeah. I love >> Look at the Dway.
(1:38:18) I've got a knife under my pillow. [laughter] Ready? You know what I mean? Like, it actually opened up this idea that good sex depends on good communication, >> right? >> Something that they were talking about 2,000 years ago, which we are not talking about today. >> No. And men used to shave their nails. >> Oh, yeah.
(1:38:36) That was of course this I mean that's a very um highly um sort of eroticized idea of like basically your love scratches were or love bites were ways of um making love. So each love bite each love scratch had its own meaning its own shape its own season. And so they basically said that if you were very high sexual energy then you shaped your nail a certain way.
(1:39:01) If you were medium, it was a certain way and so on. And it says because in those days only men traveled, >> right? >> Women did not travel. So when men traveled to different kingdoms, they if they were low sexual energy, the people in that new kingdom didn't know and then they would shape their nails accordingly and get the best codans.
(1:39:19) >> They get the best they pull the right women, you know, from that. So yeah, there's just so much there that is so relatable to today. Um, I wanted to ask the importance of foreplay because we're talking now about just creating sexual chemistry, maintaining sexual chemistry. Sometimes, um, it's about not knowing your own body and what makes you feel good.
(1:39:47) Um, for I'm again going to speak as a woman for a lot of women. Um, because we don't typically spend a lot of time in the day exploring ourselves. Now, we're making time for going to the gym. We're making time for having our hair done. We're making time with nutritionists and improving our minds, but we're not really allocating time in the day to understanding what makes us feel good, our bodies.
(1:40:06) Should we be doing more of that? Number one, you're already nodding vigorously. Um, and the understanding that we will get from that will help us in so many ways. It'll obviously help um us and our partners when we're having sex. But talk to me a little bit about the importance of foreplay. We already know as again as women we're attracted to having an intelligent conversation to a man's personality.
(1:40:32) Um the brain is like the biggest sex organ etc. But um why is it so important? >> Um so I think that for many women their own sexuality and anatomy is still a little mysterious. Um and unfortunately when you don't know what you you sometimes don't even know you don't know. >> Right. Right? That's the problem. And so I really believe that sexual self-discovery by masturbating is a incredibly powerful tool for women because unlike a male uh genitalia where there's a protrusion and it's external and every time you urinate you see what it looks like and stuff,
(1:41:11) most women have never even taken a look at their own vulva properly and you kind of need to sit down with a hand mirror to see it. you know, it's not um located in such a way that it's easily visible to you. So, so many women don't actually know with enough um shorty, especially if they've never um been sexually active, you know, in your early 20s and you're figuring this all out.
(1:41:33) You might not, if you haven't masturbated, you might not even know what the clitoris is or where. Um because you no one told you. I mean hopefully today there's the internet and things have gotten a bit clearer but even up until my generation I think millennials are the last generation to grow up without a smartphone.
(1:41:50) I would think that nobody in 12th standard would have been able to label the urethra and the vagina separate openings. Everyone thought they pee from the same place that they menstruate from. Most men and women would not have known 18 20 year olds where the clitoris is quite frankly even 50 60 year old. I don't nobody was talking about this. Right.
(1:42:09) So and and I think when you firstly take a look understand what it looks like and which part does what and then also see what feels good for you and of course there I mean your whole body is a treasure trove of pleasure. It's not that pleasure is only um accessible through the vulva, but if you're unsure of whether a clitoreral stimulation feels like this or this or where it is or it helps to like, you know, like examine this this part yourself and gently and slowly and use some lube and you can start with your fingers, but a toy is incredibly
(1:42:39) effective at >> um clitoreral stimulation particularly because it just it does what no human can, right? I >> think you compared it to a Ferrari, you know. >> Yeah. taking the bus [laughter] when you can have a I mean for me it was a hugely educational experience to use a toy for the first time because my pleasure seemed so in inscrable to me like I just didn't know why most of the time I wasn't having an orgasm and what it wasn't so obvious to me that consistent and focused stimulation of the clitoris was required because sometimes during
(1:43:07) penetration as you were saying the angle was just right so there was clitoreral friction because >> kind of hit and miss >> it's kind of hit or miss and then it just stopped like I was just you know whatever was gone and so when you can control these things. >> You know, it's like suddenly realizing that like there's a remote you can you can control that your your room has a thermometer that you have some agency over instead of waiting for the perfect night where it's 22° and the moon's not too bright and the you know really that
(1:43:32) was the difference where I realized wow I can control the variables because now I know what gets me there. I didn't even know it was a happy accident when it happened because we think sex is erection penetration ejaculation and it ends when he comes. So I'm lucky if I come in that same time span >> this optional >> and foreplay is optional this um I feel like the I think things that she I'm really impressed with young men these days I think that they do they have learned they are listening they want to know I really think men do want they are
(1:43:59) trying >> they are really trying >> they are [laughter] happy to say that >> yes happy to say see that >> but I think we can help them >> we can help them the idea that even oral sex or fingering or both um is an an event in itself how about like making me orgasm a few times before we even drop your pants. >> Right. Right. You know.
(1:44:18) >> Right. Yeah. Like the counsel says, make her come twice before you penetrate. >> Right. >> Through other means. Absolutely. >> But you know, like you were saying, the the foreplay, you know, what people don't realize is that the vagina has a lot of nerve endings, but they're mostly in the front part. >> Yes.
(1:44:36) >> Now, as you go deeper and deeper, they are there are fewer and they sort of set back a little bit more. So when you're fully aroused, when you've had that half an hour of solid foreplay, when it is engorged, when the blood flow has gone in fully, there's enough pressure of there for those nerve endings to now be stimulated.
(1:44:56) >> If it hasn't got there, just the regular thrusting motion is not going to press those >> nerve endings, >> right? >> You're not going to get to You may enjoy the experience. I'm not saying that you won't. It can be really mellow. It can be beautiful. All the rest of it >> likely I spent a long time faking it as well until I learned what I had to do.
(1:45:20) >> Yeah. >> But once you know it's achievable, it's attainable. It's not >> I've also unicorn. Exactly. It's not a unicorn. >> But I've also learned to say that no, I didn't come but I enjoyed it without the coming. That's okay too. >> Yes, >> I have had to learn that. But it's taken me years to learn. I'm 63.
(1:45:39) I finally learned it. I be >> and it shouldn't be systemically hidden. This information shouldn't seem like it needs to be discovered with a map and having to follow all these. It should be general knowledge, right? Imagine if we didn't know how our eyes worked or something, >> right? [laughter] But so, okay, G-spot and Tetris different things.
(1:45:58) >> Yeah, sorry. No, go for it. So I was going to say that for instance I'm just going to start with literally this idea that the Kamsutra talks about about 24 22 to 24 G-spots. It says that there are just that many nerve endings and each one is capable of giving you pleasure. Just have to figure out.
(1:46:17) So the clitoris actually has its own name. It's called the madanchhatri the umbrella of the love god. So I mean it is that whole idea that and they knew they knew at that point that the whole umbrella unlike us thinking that there was just a little >> um but yes sorry what I find interesting is that some of these nerves nerve endings slightly closer to the according to the kamus like so this is not me because I'm a medical person >> are closer to the um surface and hence the certain types of activity can access those points and we were talking about fingering.
(1:47:01) There is um the cams talks about an entire chapter on how to use different fingers. So it's not just that is never to be used on its own that finger it says that this will just agitate not excite. So everything has to be in combination. But if you notice like if I do this for instance, it gives me a certain amount of length and a certain amount of moving.
(1:47:23) So it will get to a particular point. >> If I do this, it changes the length, it changes how I move it. >> If I do this, it changes it. >> There are some that even says you go in and then you do this to add more friction. So there's a lot of >> um concentration on accessing different points. the G-spot.
(1:47:46) Um, so I mean ages ago some German dude called Ernst Graphenberg was credited with discovering that there was a erogynous zone on the upper wall of the vagina that um when stimulated can result in pleasure and it was called the G-spot. But I think the way that the struct well it's not a structure. The zone was named G-spot makes it sound like it's a structure.
(1:48:09) So people be like where is G-spot? as if there's a physical bump or button or some magic bean to look for in there, right? Men and women alike. I mean, there were there were times when the historically like Cosmopolitan magazine issued an apology for the way it had written about the G-spot, how to find your G-spot, you know, because they acknowledged after certain research was published that they perpetuated this myth that there was something to find there and only the only those in the no, you know, >> but in fact, it's interesting. It's
(1:48:38) called a mad mother chetu because the clitoris is a structure that's much bigger than just the little P-shaped. We only see the head of the clitoris, the glands of the clitoris externally. It's actually kind of wishbone shaped. It has two um sort of legs, >> bulbs that that straddle the vaginal. So, I wish I had my little model here, but if this is the vaginal canal, the clitoris is kind of seated like this.
(1:49:01) where the legs of the clitoris um are actually so close to the upper wall of the vagina internally that when you stimulate the upper wall, you're also stimulating the internal parts of the clitoris. The urethra is also right there. So there's so much going on in the small amount of space that more contemporary researchers have suggested renaming what was thought of as the G-spot because it's really an erogynous zone, not a structure, as the clitor urethra vaginal complex because it's like literally three parts of anatomy
(1:49:31) kind of stacked on top of each other and and particularly when external clitoreral stimulation has either preceded or is ongoing and then you add internal stimulation against the upper wall. Many people do find that pleasurable, especially combined. And what she was saying also about how it kind of you warm up to penetration can be amazing.
(1:49:49) I I really do enjoy penetration, but I don't want to go from a zero to penetration. >> You know, you kind of like work your way up there and if you're doing all of this at the same time, it can feel incredible. Sometimes women feel like they need to pee when they're about to orgasm because the urethra is right there, too.
(1:50:04) And hence clto urethra ure >> clitto urethro vaginal complex. It's a mouthful, but at least it explains what's going on. >> Absolutely. Um my friend Nanja has a question for every podcast that we do uh and then we try and address her question and she said that um typically for women it is more difficult to orgasm through penetr penetrative sex uh and much easier uh through masturbation and with the aid of vibrators >> for sure.
(1:50:32) I mean, sorry, you want me to elaborate? [laughter] Yeah, I wanted to address that and then to talk about the fact that there are options outside of penetrative sex also for women to explore pleasure by themselves, maybe understand their bodies before they're able to explain it uh to their partners. >> I mean, so many women, especially in this part of the world, uh will have their first experience of pleasurable clitoreral stimulation with a jet spray in the bathroom, you know.
(1:50:55) Uh um it might be funny or some people think it's like, but let's be honest. And many people think they're the only woman in the whole world who knew that and now you also of course right and so people actually do intuitively I think recognize when they experience let's say pleasure with the vibrator like oh I have felt that it felt good maybe when I rubbed my legs together or when I used the jet spray or whatever they clitoreral stimulation being a source of pleasure is something that women quickly like oh yeah like I have felt it I
(1:51:21) didn't realize I could control it and experience it so easily and I think you know >> the penis and the clitor are actually um homologues, biological homalologes, the same tissue in a fetus when when sexual differentiation is going on becomes either a penis or a clitoris. And so when you think about how central to pleasure the clitoris is like imagine if we had sex with men and didn't touch their penis, >> right? >> Stroke their balls and expected them to come.
(1:51:49) That's how >> what is happening. >> Yeah, that's what's happening. to ignore the clitoris, to not include it at all is like expecting for women to experience pleasure without >> activating the the >> Yeah. [laughter] >> So, and and the focus and consistent stimulation that a a suction or vibration device can provide is just ex is designed to to make this, you know, to for fireworks basically.
(1:52:16) >> And women are people are buying vibrators. >> People are buying vibrator. I mean, I co-founded a brand called Lizus where we make sex toys partly because for me they were so lifealtering and I've been talking about them for 10 years. You couldn't even get them here at one point and today you can get them on blinket.
(1:52:31) I mean I wanted to I wanted to like buy out like everybody thousands of you could also buy them. >> They're not scheduling their sex Sunday. >> No just for ease of access and delivery. But I I think that what's wonderful is men are often also buying it for their wives and girlfriends. >> Yes.
(1:52:51) There's this idea that I think more and more men recognize that being supportive of your partner's pleasure, doing everything you can to ensure she has the best time is going to result in better sex for both of you. Like you are winning, too, if you do that. >> And I think more men are recognizing that. There was a time when men felt, "Ooh, this is a competition to me.
(1:53:06) " And now they're like, "This is my best collaborator. It's like getting a paintbrush. I'm an artist now." You know, >> and I think turned so many of those stereotypes on their heads. Um, one that I feel also can be an aid sometimes u when people are experiencing um ups and downs uh is erotica and you've talked about audio erotica you've talked about literature um there's also porn um and I feel like I think again when I was reading that India is the largest consumer of online porn uh but a lot of people who are consuming it may not
(1:53:36) understand whether what they're watching is ethical whether it was ethically shot whether there's consent to the act to it being recorded to it being distributed. Um so if you could maybe talk Lisa first you a little bit about what ethical porn is and then even within that um what I mean I I don't make it sounds analytical but there are advantages of watching porn it is a healthy release of your curiosities your interest um as you I think haveelves have said without the fear of infection rejection >> well masturbation is yeah
(1:54:12) >> I think like one of the safest forms of having sex without the fear infection, rejection or anything. I think porn can have its ups and downs. Yes. >> Uh maybe I I feel like I'm less um unequivocally an advocate of porn than I am of masturbation. I think you can masturbate with your imagination. And I encourage you to do that because >> a lot of people >> you need a visual visual aid.
(1:54:32) >> I'll get into porn in a second, but I feel like people bucket the two together >> when that's not necessary. I'm not a porn watcher at all actually, personally. Although I mean I don't my arousal is not triggered by watching other people have sex. >> Um I don't even like watching sport or cooking shows like master chef cuz I want to eat.
(1:54:50) I want to like do the thing. I don't want to watch the thing. Different strokes for different folks but that that's personally my thing. So whenever I've watched porn it's been more like an education like oh okay here's how this thing works. Maybe it's an experience I haven't had and don't want to have but I want to know how it works. Very educational porn it can be.
(1:55:06) And I think for many people it does serve as an education as well because where else are we learning about sex from? And I think some porn ethical porn is now being made with that context like okay young people are learning about sex from porn. How can we make sure we are including consent including emotion including um discussions around things like even what's sex like? if you have a disability or a mental health issue or um just more diverse people in terms of ethnicity, body type, age group, whatever, right? Um also that this
(1:55:39) there's more um sort of clear understanding that all parties have been paid correctly in this consensual consent to the dissemination of the clip, etc., etc., where on mainstream porn sites that are free often I mean everything from revenge porn to AI like it there's just so much out there and you don't even know whether the people in there can send it to being to being put on the internet.
(1:56:01) So >> for all those reasons ethical porn is trying to mitigate some of the downsides of mainstream porn which often also tends to be very violent and misogynistic. There's tons of the male gears without any kind of um thought given to the fact that >> even though it may be intended as adult entertainment, it is serving as many young people's first visual reference point for sex.
(1:56:24) Like do we need to see, you know, a woman being >> um violently treated by multiple men? >> I don't know. Do we need to at age 10? Maybe that's not your best visual reference point. That's the average age in America right now for when young people get exposed to porn. So you know um there's like a kitchen knife I guess any you can use it to make your dinner you can also kill someone with it I think any whether it's social media porn various forms of like internet stuff I think the internet itself is quite like a kitchen knife >> many useful like amazing things that
(1:56:53) come out of it but also many quite harmful things so how do you make sure you use it to make dinner and not to harm people or yourself right >> um sorry I talk so much >> no no but I feel like you're No joke. No, I feel like balanced stuff. >> You're covering very important things because as you said um you know they and the internet is this completely unregulated place and now you have AI entering into the mix as well and um you know we really don't know what is real and what is not um and our visual references and therefore so much is
(1:57:23) being molded as a result of that. Is there anything that you wanted to say about that? >> So I think that um a few things actually very quickly. One is that when people are watching porn, I find that yes, there is porn that is being made, which is ethical porn, let's call it that. Um because that's the term being used for it for different reasons.
(1:57:46) It's generally behind a pay wall. People will go for the free stuff. >> Yeah, >> there's a problem. Now, somebody wrote to me for instance saying that he watched um sibling porn and he said, "I feel destroyed. I can't look at my sister. I can't be in the same room with her anymore. I feel so I think that you know parents are always their idea of teaching their child about porn is which is okay understandable but the point is maybe try telling them that it is likely to come up >> and it is not real and you need to basically whatever you end up watching
(1:58:20) you have to become responsible for knowing that you have to deal with it there is a consequence to what you are going to go through now I by chance um for the last two years has spent a lot of time with people who make adult uh content for different reasons. So there's one platform there's a very well-known lady called Erica Lust >> who makes films and uh so I spent some time with her in Barcelona.
(1:58:47) We talk through these things and one of the things that she does is before the movie comes on um they will do like um they do like a a video of everybody who's going to be in the film and everybody sat over there in costume beautifully dressed up somebody in there you know I mean looking gorgeous and they will say what they will or won't do so what they will or will not accept and part of Erica's team's job is to make notes of everything.
(1:59:19) Which means that if one person says, "I will not do it without a condom." When you're on set and you're getting carried away, you are and you might go without the condom. You're going to be stopped and told, "Sorry, you said this, you're going to wear the condom." >> Now, she says that there is because it has been made for the male gays.
(1:59:41) And I used to always say, can we just put one person in every film who says no? When a guy comes along and says, I want sex, put in one person who says no. >> So then what happens then? >> And then let him go to the next one who says yes. But let that no become audible to people watching. Let them know that no is a possibility.
(2:00:02) >> Let even men say no. >> Yes. Like >> absolutely. >> Let somebody say no. that again like I said Erica's stuff does that but it's behind a pay wall so we don't always get to this there's another site called make love not porn where which has been started by this lady called Cindy Gallup and Cindy gets people to send in their videos so they're real life videos real life sex videos and then they go through all the paperwork to make sure that it's consensual on both sides not just and then that is loaded so I interviewed
(2:00:37) somebody for a video on vaginismas. She's an adult content creator with vaginismas >> and I said to her, how did you get past that? Because she actually has >> Tell the people watching who don't know what vaginismas is. >> Sorry. So vaginismas is where you have this issue where your vaginal muscles clench so tightly that penetration becomes absolutely impossible.
(2:00:57) The pain is so intense. It is a psychological problem but it manifests very physically. So we are not to say oh it's just in the mind. It's it's a very physical issue. And imagine now if you're an adult content creator but with vaginismas that is a major obstacle to your work >> and she's done videos actually the first time she manages to put her own fingers inside her the first time she manages to penetrate >> and I said to her how did you get to this point so she was telling me about the different things that she tried and
(2:01:28) she said one of the things was that um it was from watching the real life sex videos because you suddenly realize that every guy doesn't have to be that size. >> Yeah, >> they can be normal >> organ sizes and it made her less frightened. >> So, there are definitely now I spent time with a lady called Zara Stardust who's um taught at Harvard.
(2:01:51) She's a PhD from New Zealand. She's a sex worker and she's a porn star. So, she's a sex worker and she is also an adult content creator and she can I mean she's done everything from when she was pregnant to pregnancy porn to literally everything. So, one is that everybody believes you know when the when the two sides of the debate come in about this is always non-consensual.
(2:02:16) This is it's not always non-consensual. It is a lot of times also the other way. But yes, there's a huge aspect of it which is a disgusting non-consensual run by monopolies and so on you know. So there there are issues all around. There are a lot of people who rely on porn for their relationship to feel like the spark is alive.
(2:02:42) They watch it together or they watch it separately but they bring it to each other. There are also people who say, "I'd much rather watch this, come and then I can come and love you, but I don't want to have sex with you." So, we've got one of those questions in there as well. I think like with everything, it is on a spectrum.
(2:03:00) It's how you choose to treat something. If you are using it to help your sex life, it's great. If you are using it to replace your sex life, >> you have a problem, >> right? And yes, there are issues much like when we talked about the films where you have the toxic man getting the woman because of his toxicity. >> The same problem arises here. Yeah.
(2:03:19) >> But I think people don't recog like you human trafficking and any activities that are the result of human trafficking or against or sexual assault is not we should not be even calling that porn. >> You know people b like throw away the baby with the bath water because there's insufficient nuance even in terminology.
(2:03:36) We could be talking about a sex worker, a porn star with agency who chooses to do the work that she does and um feels, you know, confident and happy with that choice >> with the same language that we're talking about some minor who's been trafficked. >> It's it's not the same. Yeah. Absolutely. >> And why should we have to either go say okay to all of it or and you know what I mean? >> It's like people who refer to rape as sex.
(2:04:01) >> Yes. Exactly. What is non-consensual sex? sex whether consensual or non. No, rape is rape, right? We we like I think pussy fit around certain words. Rape is one of those things like sexual harassment, sexual >> and they'll say but it's sexual, you know. No, it isn't. It's sexual assault, but it is not sex, >> right? >> And trafficking is not in any way something that anyone is condoning like pro proborn feminists.
(2:04:33) I'm not saying human trafficking is okayactly >> and people just th I don't know mix things up. Even masturbation and porn bucketed together with the nofap movement. There's a lot of like convenient bucketing together because there's so much moral panic >> that I think so often nuance is just missing and it's like where do you even >> if you're unwilling to engage with nuance you've like kind of >> and then exactly then you're losing >> and you know that nofap movement sorry I just want to throw this in how detrimental it was to so many men. I had
(2:05:02) so many guys writing to me that the big male influencers in India were going around saying I am noof fapping meaning sorry just in case you don't know what that means the nofap movement started to help people not masturbate to porn so masturbating to porn is the fap and the nofap was not doing that >> and there were all these and then it became just not masturbating and then it became not having sex right >> so it just took took on different meanings over here >> and you had guys on the internet saying look how successful I am because I
(2:05:39) became celibate I stopped masturbating look at me and there were men writing young boys writing saying that I am destroying myself because that's all I can think of I really need to is this really bad will I not succeed in life I just think people who don't know what they're talking about need to step the hell back >> rather than destroying other people's lives Yeah, >> but it's so easy for uh quick views.
(2:06:04) >> Yes. >> And quick followers. >> But that's the thing that in the interest of without the foreplay, you're just getting to them and then I feel like a lot of people will not even be watching at this point of the podcast and they're missing like the most important part of it. Um >> Oh, I'm sorry. Run away from us by now.
(2:06:20) >> But I'm saying we talked too much. [laughter] I wanted to just talk about polyamory because I feel like monogamy is one kind of relationship. Uh they and I'm not very familiar with polyamory. Um I remember going to a therapist at some point and she had told me that open marriages in her experience don't work.
(2:06:44) Uh but I also have friends who do experience are in polyamorous relationships and um this is something that maybe you are more familiar with the both of you. Um it's not my world but just understand that that also exists and that you can um negotiate feelings of insecurity, jealousy, those will come and those will go but they can be handled.
(2:07:10) I think again there's the um lack of nuance often in this like polyamory is justifying cheating. That's not what it's supposed to be. But people will say people who don't understand the idea of ethical non- monogamy or to whom it is so incredulous that you could possibly willingly allow for >> and one thing I do there's no deceit involved in transparency between everybody involved everybody involved >> and you know it's not for everyone.
(2:07:35) I feel like also if they are people will be quick to think that if a topic is being discussed it means it's being universally recommended. >> Right. >> Which is like so annoying because then you don't talk about the more complicated subjects because the viewer doesn't give you the grace of like a good faith reading of your um conversation. Right.
(2:07:52) >> Right. I nothing I say is ever the solution to every like onesizefits-all answer to this is what you should do. And I would think that we both try and make that clear. But often when talking about something like non- monogamy it be like [gasps] >> these two are destroying the fabric of you know >> which firstly shouldn't be like surely the fabric of society is not monogamy or it shouldn't be uh there should be more to it.
(2:08:17) What about civic sense? But yeah, [laughter and gasps] you know, but the idea that some people might want to explore different aspects of what it means for two people to connect with more than one person. I mean, to to a large extent, it is quite um incredible how much we're thought we can expect, we're taught to believe that we should and can expect from just one other person.
(2:08:43) like you now your partner is your best friend, your co-parent, your house runner, your right, you're just like everything. They have to entertain you and support you and console you and provide for you and like there's a lot it's a ton, right? And also be interesting to go to the museum with and also like it's a lot to expect one person to be able to do.
(2:09:01) So I think some people have maybe you have a you know a primary partner who you're running a home and have kids with. Maybe you have a special friend you do the museums with and maybe you have a another person who you like to talk about whatever your most heartfelt unfiltered issues with and so we understand that in friendship.
(2:09:18) Yes, >> for example, having multiple friends is not a well, some people are really possessive even if they're friends, but that surely we recognize there's some examination to be done there, right? Or like you can have multiple um colleagues, friends, children, whatever. And it's not a competition for love.
(2:09:33) And I think if you can extend that >> attitude for some people, they're able to extend that even to their romantic partner where it isn't a >> hierarchical possession that comes with love and with like romance and sex that you know it goes beyond that. uh and I think the important thing would be the takeaway would be that there should be transparency and there should be consent and everybody should actively >> and the fact that certain emotions will always come up, jealousy will come up.
(2:09:58) You may not you may think it's fine when you're doing it but when your partner does it, jealousy will come up and it can be dealt with. >> Right. A woman said that my husband wants to be polyamorous and I wish to be monogamous. >> Yes. >> And how do I deal with it? And I think rather than trying to explain it because I really didn't know very much about how you would deal with that.
(2:10:20) So I interviewed another Indian woman I actually found an Indian woman who's written a book her name is Deepa Paul >> and um she'd written a book about her own polyamorous relationship and I really wanted to interview an Indian for this because there's a lot of American voices that talk about this but I find that we practice intimacy and sex in a very cultural way like it means different things to us.
(2:10:43) So, um I'm not going to go into all of the details, but I was fascinated with what she talked about, how you deal with jealousy, which talked about um things like um the finances of it. Things like how do you because what they said was that how you everybody practices polyamory is also different. >> How you think of polyamory is different.
(2:11:04) Every it's not a homogeneous thing definition. So there's quite a lot to think about so that you and your partner truly have an ethical relationship where the boundaries and the safety and the respect is met. >> So I would suggest that that chapter is a good one too. >> I think it's and as you said like for a lot of people it might just be that they're in a relationship with one person and they find that challenging or boring and they just want to step out of the marriage and they may not both be consenting to that. So as long as
(2:11:35) there's transparency, there's actual conversation and there's consent and agency on all parts >> and really important understanding the money side of it. Like if you have got two other partners at all times, where is the money for them coming from? Is it coming from your budget? Like >> these are things that we don't think about who's thinking about the SDI checks like are you actually thinking about that or do you think it's okay to just run around and do what that's not polyactic? >> Exactly. Right. I think I can I can
(2:12:03) really be here forever. Um, but in the interest of time, I'm I feel like good conversations like good sex, they can go anywhere. Um, >> and I really feel that for me there have been a lot of takeaways and I don't think I actually blushed through most of it. I think I was able to absorb a lot of it.
(2:12:23) I think it's been really useful information um for a lot of people just to as you said things that you may not even know that you know or you need to know um and there's a lot out there to unpack and to explore just park parting messages from the both of you if I can ask you first Lisa just one message perhaps for teenage girls that you wish that someone had told you I know that you >> learn to say no and not just in bed in life in general I think >> I think Jenz and younger have better um like reference points in this regard.
(2:12:54) But millennials were still I think conditioned to shrink themselves all the time. Don't laugh too loudly. Sit with your legs crossed. Don't >> disobey. Don't question. Don't don't don't don't you know just be acquies and pliable. Smile. >> Um and and I think that we have gotten better at rejecting that conditioning.
(2:13:12) But I would say it doesn't hurt to be reminded again like choose yourself, say no, don't shrink yourself. Um, your agency exists and matters and you are entitled to it. You can have preferences and opinions and you can laugh and you should have fun and you should make money.
(2:13:30) Like all the things that society is trying to stop you from doing, you have every right to do if you want to. >> Yeah. Lovely. And hypothetical question. Suppose you're a woman in her late 40s going through hormonal changes and your libido is um not where you want it to be. Is there like a a drink that you something you can whip up in the kitchen that will help you? >> No, there's absolutely nothing that you can consume that will suddenly make you um a more a a better lover, >> right? >> Um and I we don't unfortunately have a little blue pill because we don't have a
(2:14:04) button that we can press as women that will just give us a an erection so to speak. >> So no, I'm afraid not. It does start in the mind and hence I would suggest for everybody I think the first thing that we do is that the moment a thought about pleasure crosses our mind the guilt makes us shut it down >> so open your mind to it just the thought is coming through even if you don't want to do anything about it let the thought come through acclimatize your mind and body to pleasure thank you thank you both so much for spending so much time
(2:14:36) with me today I think today truly we brought the ah into all about her uh and um it It was it was lovely. It was just a lovely conversation. So, thank you both for your time. >> Thank you for having us. We loved being [laughter] here. Thank you for for addressing this topic. >> Conversations about sex, about intimacy, about pleasure, they can be difficult to have.
(2:14:56) They're not always the easiest conversations to be had. Uh, but I think especially for a generation that grew up with teachers that skipped the whole chapter on reproduction and families that avoid the topic or shut you down entirely, they're very important conversations and the more we speak openly, the more we understand our own bodies, our own desires.
(2:15:18) I think we take away the shame. A huge thank you to the both of you for bringing clarity, honesty, and also science, I think, to a subject that is so often misunderstood. If today's episode made you feel at all seen, informed, or even just a little more comfortable with yourself, then please do subscribe to the show because this is exactly what All About Her is meant to do.
(2:15:38) Until next time, stay informed, stay healthy, and we will see you in the next episode. [music]
Author Name:Soha Ali Khan
Youtube Channel Url:https://www.youtube.com/@SohaAliKhanP
Youtube Video URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkLGNKZKC10
Title: I Faked it! How to Make a Woman Orgasm? Seema Anand & Leeza Mangaldas | Female Pleasure, Sex & Shame
Author Name: Soha Ali Khan
Description: ALL ABOUT HER with Soha Ali Khan ft. Dr. Seema Anand and Leeza Mangaldas | Sexual Pleasure, Intimacy, Female Desire & Sexual Health
What if we were taught everything about reproduction, but almost nothing about pleasure, intimacy and our own sexual health?
In this special episode of All About Her, we have an honest and open conversation about a subject that is still rarely discussed openly sexual pleasure and intimacy, particularly from a woman’s perspective.
Growing up, many of us were never taught about sexual health. Sex education was often reduced to reproduction, and even those chapters were sometimes skipped in school. Conversations around desire, pleasure, consent, communication and female sexuality were largely left to silence, shame and misinformation.
Joining the conversation is Leeza Mangaldas, author, sexual health educator and one of India’s most prominent voices in conversations around sex, sexuality, pleasure and consent. Alongside her is Dr. Seema Anand, mythologist, storyteller and author of The Arts of Seduction and Speak Easy, who brings the lens of history, culture, ancient texts and relationships to our understanding of intimacy and desire.
Together, we explore what sexual chemistry really means, what good sex means from a woman’s perspective, why female pleasure continues to be misunderstood, and whether the way we talk about sex has historically been shaped by a predominantly male perspective.
We also discuss some of the questions many couples struggle to ask how important is foreplay? Can sexual incompatibility affect a marriage? Is it okay to schedule sex? Is there a “right” amount of sex? What happens when intimacy becomes routine? How do couples talk about their sexual needs? And what does it actually take to become a better partner?
The conversation also looks at female pleasure across different stages of life from pregnancy and postpartum changes to perimenopause and menopause and how desire, arousal and libido can change over time.
We talk about sexual education, pornography and erotica, masturbation, sex toys, emotional intimacy, infidelity, shame around female desire, and why so many women struggle to communicate what they want.
And perhaps most importantly, we ask: How can women understand their own bodies better, and how can couples create a relationship where pleasure, consent and communication are equally important?
This is a special episode of All About Her, released on World Sexual Health Day, because sexual health is a part of overall health and having accurate, responsible conversations about it matters.
Disclaimer: This episode is not intended to promote erotica, pornography or any particular sexual practice. The conversation is purely educational and aims to create awareness around sexual health, intimacy, consent, communication and female wellbeing. Individual experiences and preferences may differ, and viewers should seek appropriate professional medical advice for personal health concerns.
At its heart, this episode is about replacing embarrassment with education and silence with honest conversation.
Because understanding our bodies, our boundaries and our needs should never be something we have to feel ashamed of.
#AllAboutHer #SohaAliKhan #LeezaMangaldas #SeemaAnand #SexualHealth #WorldSexualHealthDay #SexualWellness #FemalePleasure #Intimacy #SexEducation #WomensHealth #FemaleSexualHealth #Relationships #Consent #SexualWellbeing #ReproductiveHealth #Podcast #AllAboutHerPodcast
📍 Whoppl Studios
—————————————————-
Chapter titles
0:00 Upcoming
1:47 Introduction
3:35 Meet Seema Anand
4:12 Meet Leeza Mangaldas
5:43 Penetration vs Envelopment
9:43 What Is Good Sex?
13:08 Sexual Energy & Positions
18:26 Why Is Sex Still Taboo?
20:46 Desire: Born or Conditioned?
25:27 Sex & The Generation Gap
27:37 Seema’s Book & Backlash
33:03 Unlearning Sexual Shame
36:18 Sex Education
41:15 When Should Sex Education Start?
44:47 Consent & Toxic Masculinity
49:08 Boundaries & Saying No
54:23 Myths About Sex
58:54 The Virginity Debate
1:05:40 The Right Age for Sex
1:10:09 Leeza on Marriage
1:13:06 Seema on 40 Years of Marriage
1:20:27 Sexual Compatibility & Chemistry
1:24:50 Women, Age & Sexual Health
1:33:06 How Much Sex Is Enough?
1:35:33 The 64 Skills of Seduction
1:39:30 Why Foreplay Matters
1:50:10 Ninna’s Question
1:53:11 Ethical Erotica
2:06:24 Monogamy vs Polyamory
2:12:02 Closing & Outro
—————————————————————————
Produced By: Soha Ali Khan
Production House: Any Content Experts Pvt Ltd
Creative Producer & Writer: Bhumika Jethwa
Technical Anchor & Lead DOP: Anish Ajmera
Assistant DOP: Jimit Sondagar
Post-Producer & Editor: Yash Patel
✨ Follow Soha Ali Khan ⤵︎
Instagram: @sakpataudi
Twitter: @sakpataudi
Facebook: Soha Ali Khan
మీరు ఇచ్చిన **శీర్షిక, వివరణ, అధ్యాయాలు, ట్రాన్స్క్రిప్ట్ భాగం** ఆధారంగా తెలుగు అనువాదం ఇక్కడ ఉంది. ఇది లైంగిక ఆరోగ్యం, ఆనందం, సమ్మతి, సంబంధాలు మరియు మహిళల శరీర అవగాహనపై విద్యాపరమైన చర్చ.
## శీర్షిక
**“నేను నటించాను!” మహిళకు భావప్రాప్తి ఎలా కలిగించాలి? — సీమా ఆనంద్ & లీజా మంగళదాస్ | మహిళల ఆనందం, సెక్స్ మరియు సిగ్గు**
## పరిచయం
మనలో చాలామందికి పునరుత్పత్తి గురించి కొంతవరకు బోధించారు. కానీ లైంగిక ఆనందం, సన్నిహితత్వం, కోరిక, సమ్మతి, శరీర అవగాహన మరియు లైంగిక ఆరోగ్యం గురించి చాలా తక్కువగా మాట్లాడారు.
ఈ కార్యక్రమంలో మహిళల దృష్టికోణం నుంచి లైంగిక ఆనందం, సన్నిహితత్వం, కోరిక మరియు సంబంధాల గురించి బహిరంగంగా చర్చిస్తారు.
లీజా మంగళదాస్ లైంగిక ఆరోగ్య విద్యావేత్త మరియు రచయిత. డా. సీమా ఆనంద్ పురాణాలు, చరిత్ర, ప్రాచీన గ్రంథాలు, సంబంధాలు మరియు సన్నిహితత్వంపై పరిశోధన చేసే రచయిత, కథకురాలు.
ఈ చర్చలో వారు క్రింది అంశాలను పరిశీలిస్తారు:
- మంచి లైంగిక సంబంధం అంటే ఏమిటి?
- మహిళల ఆనందం ఎందుకు తరచూ నిర్లక్ష్యం చేయబడుతుంది?
- ఫోర్ప్లే ఎందుకు ముఖ్యమైనది?
- లైంగిక అవసరాల గురించి భాగస్వామితో ఎలా మాట్లాడాలి?
- లైంగిక సమ్మతి మరియు హద్దులు.
- లైంగిక అపోహలు మరియు సిగ్గు.
- వివాహంలో లైంగిక అనుకూలత.
- గర్భధారణ, ప్రసవం, పెరిమెనోపాజ్ మరియు మెనోపాజ్ సమయంలో కోరికలో మార్పులు.
- అశ్లీలత, ఎరోటికా, హస్తప్రయోగం మరియు సెక్స్ టాయ్స్.
- మహిళలు తమ శరీరాన్ని, అవసరాలను ఎలా బాగా అర్థం చేసుకోవాలి?
ఈ కార్యక్రమం సిగ్గు స్థానంలో అవగాహనను, మౌనం స్థానంలో నిజాయితీగల సంభాషణను తీసుకురావడమే లక్ష్యంగా పెట్టుకుంది.
***
## ప్రారంభ సంభాషణ
**(00:02)**
ఈ సంభాషణలోని కొన్ని విషయాలు మాట్లాడుతున్నప్పుడు నాకు సిగ్గుగా అనిపిస్తోంది. ఇలాంటి వాతావరణంలో నేను సాధారణంగా ఈ విషయాల గురించి మాట్లాడను.
మహిళలు సెక్స్ కోరుకోవడానికి కూడా అనుమతి లేనట్లుగా భావిస్తారు; అదే సమయంలో సెక్స్ను నిరాకరించడానికి కూడా అనుమతి లేనట్లుగా భావిస్తారు.
నిజాయితీగా చెప్పాలంటే, మంచి లైంగిక సంబంధం జీవితంలో లభించే అత్యంత అద్భుతమైన అనుభవాల్లో ఒకటి.
**(00:18)**
“సెక్స్ చేపలాంటిది—చెడ్డదైనా మంచిదే” అని కొందరు సరదాగా అంటారు. కానీ అది నిజం కాదు.
చాలామందికి క్లిటోరిస్ అంటే ఏమిటో, అది ఎక్కడ ఉంటుందో కూడా తెలియదు. చాలా సార్లు మహిళలు కేవలం పడి, ఎదుటి వ్యక్తి చేసే పనిని భరించాల్సిందే అన్నట్లుగా ఉంటారు. లైంగిక అనుభవంలో ఎలా పాల్గొనాలో వారికి బోధించబడదు.
లైంగిక అవయవాల పరిమాణాలు, శరీరాకృతులు భిన్నంగా ఉంటాయి. కొన్ని లైంగిక భంగిమలు ఈ భిన్నతలకు అనుగుణంగా ఆనందం లేదా సౌకర్యాన్ని పెంచడానికి ఉపయోగపడవచ్చు.
**(00:36)**
హైమెన్ను కన్యత్వానికి రుజువుగా చూడడం శాస్త్రీయంగా సరైనది కాదు. దాని ఆధారంగా ఒక మహిళ వ్యక్తిత్వం, నైతికత లేదా గతాన్ని నిర్ణయించడం అనైతికం మరియు శాస్త్రీయ ఆధారం లేనిది.
మహిళల శరీరంపై కుటుంబం, సమాజం మరియు “గౌరవం” పేరుతో చాలా భారాన్ని మోపుతారు. కానీ ఒక అమ్మాయి తన శరీరం తనదే అని తెలుసుకుని పెరగాలని నేను కోరుకుంటాను.
భావప్రాప్తి చాలా దూరమైన విషయంలా అనిపించవచ్చు. అందుకే కొందరు మహిళలు అది జరిగినట్లు నటిస్తారు.
చాలామంది సెక్స్ను ఇలా మాత్రమే భావిస్తారు: అంగస్తంభన, ప్రవేశం, వీర్యస్ఖలనం—అంతే. కానీ మహిళల ఆనందంపై తగినంత శ్రద్ధ పెట్టరు.
**(01:34)**
ప్రపంచవ్యాప్తంగా ప్రజలు లైంగిక సంబంధాలు కలిగి ఉన్నప్పటికీ, వారందరూ పిల్లలను కనడానికి మాత్రమే అలా చేయడం లేదు. మనుషులు పరస్పర ఆనందాన్ని చైతన్యపూర్వకంగా సృష్టించి ఆస్వాదించగలరు.
లైంగిక అనుకూలత స్థిరమైన వివాహానికి ఒక ముఖ్యమైన అంశం కావచ్చని నేను భావిస్తున్నాను.
***
## మౌనం మరియు లైంగిక విద్య
**(02:08)**
లైంగిక ఆనందం మరియు సన్నిహితత్వం గురించి మనం చాలా తక్కువగా మాట్లాడతాం. ఈ విషయం బహిరంగంగా చెప్పేటప్పుడు సిగ్గుగా, అసౌకర్యంగా మరియు మనం చాలా వ్యక్తిగత విషయాన్ని వెల్లడిస్తున్నట్లుగా అనిపించవచ్చు.
చిన్నప్పటి నుంచి ఈ విషయాల గురించి ఇంట్లోనూ, పాఠశాలలోనూ సరైన విద్య అందలేదు. మనకు లభించిన సమాచారం ఎక్కువగా పురుషుల దృష్టికోణంతో రూపొందిన పుస్తకాలు, సినిమాల నుంచే వచ్చింది.
**(02:36)**
సెక్స్ గురించి ఉపయోగించే పదజాలం కూడా ఎక్కువగా పురుషుల దృష్టికోణాన్ని ప్రతిబింబిస్తుంది. ఉదాహరణకు, “పెనిట్రేషన్” అనే పదమే ఎందుకు ఉపయోగిస్తాం? దానికి బదులుగా మహిళల పాత్రను కూడా సూచించే మరో పదం ఎందుకు ఉపయోగించకూడదు?
చరిత్రలో పురుషుడి ఆనందానికే ఎక్కువ ప్రాధాన్యం లభించింది. పురుషుడి అంగస్తంభన, పరిమాణం, బలం మరియు ఎంతసేపు కొనసాగుతుందనే విషయాలపై ఎక్కువగా దృష్టి పెట్టారు. మహిళల ఆనందం మాత్రం ఒక అదనపు అంశంలా పరిగణించబడింది.
మహిళలు సెక్స్ను కోరుకోవడానికీ, తిరస్కరించడానికీ సమానమైన హక్కు కలిగి ఉండాలి. వారు కేవలం నిశ్చలంగా ఉండి అనుభవాన్ని భరించాల్సిన వ్యక్తులు కాదు; తమ కోరికలు, అభిప్రాయాలు మరియు హద్దులను చెప్పగల క్రియాశీల భాగస్వాములు.
### నొప్పి సాధారణం కాదు
**(08:23)**
సెక్స్ సమయంలో మహిళలకు నొప్పి కలగడం వారి విధి అని కొందరు భావిస్తారు. కానీ నివారించగల నొప్పిని భరించడం అవసరం లేదు.
సెక్స్ సమయంలో నొప్పి రావడానికి అనేక కారణాలు ఉండవచ్చు. అది ఎప్పుడూ సాధారణం కాదు. నొప్పి కొనసాగితే వైద్యుడిని సంప్రదించడం అవసరం.
మహిళలు తమ శరీరానికి సంబంధించిన సమస్యలను దాచకుండా మాట్లాడాలి. వాటికి చికిత్స లేదా పరిష్కారం లభించే అవకాశం ఉంటుంది.
***
## మంచి సెక్స్ అంటే ఏమిటి?
**(09:43)**
మహిళ దృష్టిలో మంచి లైంగిక సంబంధం అంటే తనను భాగస్వామి అర్థం చేసుకున్నట్లు, గమనించినట్లు, అంగీకరించినట్లు అనిపించడం.
సెక్స్ కేవలం శారీరక చర్య కాదు. మన భావోద్వేగం మరియు శారీరక అనుభూతి విడివిడిగా ఉండవు.
మనం నగ్నంగా ఉన్నప్పుడు చాలా బలహీనంగా, సున్నితంగా అనిపించవచ్చు. ఆ సమయంలో భాగస్వామి మన ఆనందం, సౌకర్యం మరియు భావాలకు శ్రద్ధ చూపితే, మనకు ప్రేమించబడుతున్నట్లు మరియు గౌరవించబడుతున్నట్లు అనిపిస్తుంది.
మంచి సెక్స్ ఇద్దరు వ్యక్తులు మరింత లోతుగా కలిసే అనుభవం కావచ్చు. దానిలో శారీరక ఆనందంతో పాటు భావోద్వేగ సంబంధం కూడా ఉంటుంది.
**(10:58)**
సెక్స్ను కేవలం శనివారం రాత్రి జరిగే ఒక సాధారణ చర్యగా చూడకూడదు. అది కొంతమందికి పవిత్రమైన, లోతైన మరియు ముఖ్యమైన అనుభవం కావచ్చు.
సెక్స్ సరదాగా ఉండొచ్చు; అయితే అది బాధ్యత, గౌరవం మరియు పరస్పర సమ్మతితో కూడిన విషయం కూడా.
ప్రాచీన కామశాస్త్ర గ్రంథాల్లో కూడా లైంగిక సంబంధం ఆనందదాయకంగా ఉండాలని చెప్పబడింది. భంగిమలు యాదృచ్ఛికంగా సూచించబడలేదు; శరీరాకృతులు, సౌకర్యం మరియు ఆనందానికి అనుగుణంగా ఆలోచించబడ్డాయి.
***
## శరీరాకృతి, సౌకర్యం, ఆనందం
**(12:23)**
ప్రతి ఒక్కరి శరీరాకృతి మరియు పరిమాణం వేర్వేరుగా ఉంటుంది. అందువల్ల ఒకరికీ సౌకర్యంగా ఉన్న పద్ధతి మరొకరికి సౌకర్యంగా ఉండకపోవచ్చు.
ముఖ్యమైన విషయం ఏమిటంటే, శరీరాలను ఒకదానితో ఒకటి కలపడం మాత్రమే కాదు—ఇద్దరికీ సౌకర్యం, ఆనందం మరియు భద్రత కలగడం.
ఏ భంగిమలోనైనా నొప్పి కలిగితే ఆపాలి. భాగస్వామితో మాట్లాడి, సౌకర్యంగా ఉండే విధానాన్ని ఎంచుకోవాలి. ఒకరి శరీరాన్ని మరొకరు అంచనా వేయడం లేదా అవమానించడం సరైంది కాదు.
లైంగిక అనుభవంలో భావోద్వేగాలు కూడా ప్రభావం చూపుతాయి. కోరిక, ప్రేమ, ఒత్తిడి, కోపం, భయం, సిగ్గు, తీర్పు గురించి భయం—ఇవన్నీ లైంగిక అనుభవాన్ని ప్రభావితం చేయవచ్చు.
పురుషులు ఎప్పుడూ ఆధిపత్యం వహించాలి, ముందుండాలి, నియంత్రించాలి అనే సామాజిక ఒత్తిడి వారి లైంగిక జీవితాన్నీ ప్రభావితం చేయవచ్చు.
***
## క్లిటోరిస్ మరియు మహిళల ఆనందం
**(16:01)**
క్లిటోరిస్ మహిళల లైంగిక ఆనందంలో ముఖ్యమైన పాత్ర పోషించే అవయవం. కానీ చాలామందికి అది ఏమిటో లేదా ఎక్కడ ఉందో తెలియదు.
ప్రవేశం మాత్రమే మహిళలకు తగినంత ఆనందం కలిగిస్తుందని అనుకోవడం తప్పు. చాలామంది మహిళలకు క్లిటోరిస్కి సంబంధించిన స్పర్శ లేదా ఇతర రకాల ప్రేరణ అవసరం కావచ్చు.
ప్రతి వ్యక్తి స్పర్శను వేర్వేరు విధంగా ఇష్టపడతారు. కాబట్టి భాగస్వామిని అడిగి, వారి స్పందనను గమనించి, పరస్పర అంగీకారంతో ముందుకు సాగాలి.
కొన్ని భంగిమల్లో చిన్న మార్పులు క్లిటోరిస్కు మరింత ప్రేరణ కలిగించవచ్చు. మహిళ కేవలం స్వీకరించే వ్యక్తిగా కాకుండా, తనకు నచ్చిన విధంగా పాల్గొనాలి.
పురుష భాగస్వామి తన సౌకర్యం మాత్రమే కాకుండా మహిళ ఆనందంపైనా శ్రద్ధ పెట్టాలి. అవసరమైతే చేతి సహాయం లేదా ఇతర సురక్షితమైన సాధనాల గురించి భాగస్వాములు పరస్పరం మాట్లాడుకోవచ్చు.
***
## సెక్స్ ఎందుకు ఇంకా నిషేధిత విషయంలా ఉంది?
**(19:13)**
సెక్స్ గురించి మాట్లాడటం ఎందుకు ఇంత అసౌకర్యంగా అనిపిస్తుంది? దీనికి చరిత్ర, సామాజిక నియమాలు మరియు సిగ్గు సంస్కృతి కారణాలు కావచ్చు.
భారతీయ సంస్కృతిలో కామసూత్రం, ఖజురాహో వంటి సంప్రదాయాలు ఉన్నప్పటికీ, వలస పాలన కాలంలో వచ్చిన విక్టోరియన్ నైతిక భావజాలం శరీరం మరియు లైంగిక ఆనందాన్ని సిగ్గుపడాల్సిన విషయాలుగా చూపించింది.
లైంగిక నియంత్రణ ప్రజలపై సామాజిక నియంత్రణ సాధనంగా ఉపయోగించబడిందని కొందరు వాదిస్తున్నారు.
సిగ్గు, పాపం, అపవాదు మరియు నిషేధాలను పెంచితే ప్రజలను నియంత్రించడం సులభమవుతుంది. అందుకే లైంగిక ఆనందాన్ని మన సంస్కృతికి విరుద్ధమైనదిగా చూడకూడదు.
లైంగిక విషయాలపై సరైన సమాచారం కలిగి ఉండటం అనైతికం కాదు. అవగాహన, సమ్మతి మరియు బాధ్యతతో మాట్లాడటం ఆరోగ్యకరమైన విషయం.
***
## కోరిక సహజమా?
**(20:49)**
మనుషులు కోరికతోనే పుడతారా, లేక సమాజం దానిని అణచివేస్తుందా?
మానవ శరీరంలో సున్నితమైన నాడీ ముగింపులు ఉన్న భాగాలు సహజంగానే ఆనందాన్ని కలిగిస్తాయి. ఆ అనుభూతి బయట నుంచి నేర్చుకున్నది కాదు; శరీర నిర్మాణంలోనే ఉంటుంది.
చిన్న పిల్లలు కూడా తమ శరీరాన్ని తాకడం లేదా కొన్ని భంగిమల్లో ఉండడం ద్వారా స్వీయ-ఆశ్వాసాన్ని పొందవచ్చు. దీనిని వెంటనే లైంగిక ప్రవర్తనగా చూడాల్సిన అవసరం లేదు. పిల్లల విషయంలో వయస్సుకు తగిన శరీర అవగాహన, వ్యక్తిగత హద్దులు మరియు భద్రత గురించి మాత్రమే బోధించాలి.
ప్రాచీన భారతీయ గ్రంథాల్లో ఆనందం మరియు కోరిక గురించి చర్చలు ఉన్నాయి. అదే సమయంలో ప్రపంచంలోని కొన్ని మత, సామాజిక వ్యవస్థలు శరీరం మరియు ఆనందాన్ని పాపంతో అనుసంధానించాయి.
ఈ విరుద్ధమైన భావాల మధ్య మన సమాజం ఇంకా ఉంది. అందువల్ల అనేక మంది తమ సహజ కోరికల గురించి అపరాధ భావనకు గురవుతారు.
***
## సిగ్గు మరియు కుటుంబ ప్రభావం
**(23:27)**
కొంతమంది యువత తమ తల్లిదండ్రుల నుంచి “సెక్స్ సిగ్గుపడాల్సిన విషయం”, “వేరే లైంగిక గుర్తింపు అంగీకారయోగ్యం కాదు” వంటి సందేశాలు వింటారు.
మన కుటుంబాల్లో ప్రేమ కొన్నిసార్లు షరతులతో కూడి ఉంటుంది. కుటుంబం, సమాజం లేదా దేశం నుంచి వచ్చే అంగీకారానికి కొన్ని అంచనాలు జతచేయబడతాయి.
ఒక వ్యక్తి తన సహజమైన కోరికలు, లైంగిక గుర్తింపు లేదా సంబంధాల విషయంలో కుటుంబం చెప్పిన నియమాలకు విరుద్ధంగా ఉంటే, అంతర్గత సంఘర్షణ కలగవచ్చు.
ఎవరినైనా వారి లైంగిక గుర్తింపు లేదా ఆకర్షణ కారణంగా అవమానించడం, బెదిరించడం లేదా ఇంటి నుంచి పంపిస్తామని చెప్పడం తీవ్రమైన అన్యాయం.
***
## కొత్త తరం మరియు మారుతున్న దృక్పథం
**(25:26)**
యువ భారతీయులు వ్యక్తిగతంగా మునుపటి తరాల కంటే ఎక్కువగా తెరచిన మనస్తత్వం కలిగి ఉన్నారని అతిథులు భావిస్తున్నారు. అయితే బహిరంగంగా తమ అభిప్రాయాలను చెప్పడానికి కుటుంబం, సమాజం లేదా ఇతరుల తీర్పు గురించి భయపడవచ్చు.
కొంతమంది లైంగిక విద్యా పేజీలను అనుసరించడానికి నకిలీ ఖాతాలను ఉపయోగిస్తారు, ఎందుకంటే తాము ఆ పేజీలను ఫాలో అవుతున్నామని ఇతరులు తెలుసుకోవడం ఇష్టం ఉండదు.
ఇది ఇంకా సిగ్గు మరియు సామాజిక ఒత్తిడి ఉన్నాయని చూపుతుంది. అయినప్పటికీ, ప్రజలు సమాచారం, భద్రత, గర్భనిరోధకం, సమ్మతి మరియు శరీర అవగాహన గురించి తెలుసుకోవాలనుకుంటున్నారు.
లైంగిక విద్య హక్కులు, భద్రత, ఆరోగ్యం మరియు పరస్పర గౌరవంతో అనుసంధానమైన విషయం.
***
## సమాజపు విమర్శలు
**(27:49)**
లైంగిక ఆనందం గురించి మాట్లాడే మహిళలు తీవ్రమైన విమర్శలను ఎదుర్కొనవచ్చు. స్నేహితులు దూరమవ్వడం, అవమానకరమైన పేర్లు పెట్టడం, కుటుంబ సభ్యులపై ప్రభావం చూపడం వంటి పరిణామాలు రావచ్చు.
మహిళ తన శరీరం గురించి మాట్లాడితే ఆమె స్వభావాన్ని ప్రశ్నించడం జరుగుతుంది. కానీ ఒక మహిళ తన శరీరంపై హక్కు కలిగి ఉంటుంది.
మహిళల కథల్లో తరచుగా వారి శరీరం, ఆనందం మరియు స్వేచ్ఛకు స్థానం ఇవ్వబడదు. వారి శరీరం ఎవరో మరొకరికి చెందినదిగా చూపబడుతుంది.
ఒక అమ్మాయి తన శరీరానికి తానే యజమాని అని తెలుసుకుని పెరగాలి. ఆమె ఆనందం కోసం ఎవరి అనుమతి అవసరం లేదు. అయితే ప్రతి లైంగిక సంబంధంలో పరస్పర సమ్మతి, గౌరవం, భద్రత మరియు చట్టపరమైన వయస్సు తప్పనిసరి.
***
## వివాహం మరియు తరాల మధ్య సంభాషణ
**(29:55)**
లైంగిక ఆరోగ్యం గురించి వేర్వేరు వయస్సుల మహిళలు మాట్లాడటం ముఖ్యం. ఇరవైలు, ముప్పైలు, నలభైలలో ఉన్న మహిళలకు తమ అనుభవాలను పంచుకునే ప్రతినిధులు అవసరం.
యువత తమ వయస్సు వారితో మాత్రమే కాకుండా, ఇతర తరాల వారితో కూడా ఆరోగ్యకరమైన సంభాషణలు జరపాలి.
లైంగిక విషయాలపై గౌరవంగా, విద్యాపరంగా మాట్లాడే రచయితలు మరియు విద్యావేత్తలు పెరిగినప్పుడు, సెక్స్ గురించి మాట్లాడటం అవమానకరమైన విషయం కాదని సమాజం అర్థం చేసుకోవచ్చు.
***
## సిగ్గును ఎలా తగ్గించాలి?
**(32:50)**
పిల్లలకు చిన్న వయస్సు నుంచే వయస్సుకు తగిన శరీర అవగాహన ఇవ్వాలి. వారి శరీర భాగాలకు సరైన పేర్లు నేర్పాలి. శరీరం గురించి మాట్లాడేటప్పుడు “సిగ్గు” అనే భావనను జతచేయకూడదు.
సిగ్గును తగ్గించడానికి:
- శరీర భాగాలకు సరైన పేర్లు ఉపయోగించాలి.
- మంచి స్పర్శ, చెడు స్పర్శ మరియు అనుమతి గురించి నేర్పాలి.
- “నీ శరీరం నీదే” అని పిల్లలకు చెప్పాలి.
- ప్రశ్నలు అడిగినప్పుడు భయపెట్టకుండా వయస్సుకు తగిన సమాధానం ఇవ్వాలి.
- లైంగిక సంబంధాల్లో సమ్మతి, భద్రత మరియు గౌరవం గురించి బోధించాలి.
- నొప్పి లేదా అసౌకర్యాన్ని భరించడం విధి కాదని చెప్పాలి.
- విశ్వసనీయమైన వైద్య మరియు విద్యా వనరులను ఉపయోగించాలి.
## ప్రధాన takeaways
- మహిళల లైంగిక ఆనందం కూడా పురుషుల ఆనందం ఎంత ముఖ్యమో అంతే ముఖ్యమైనది.
- మంచి సెక్స్ అంటే కేవలం ప్రవేశం లేదా పురుషుడి భావప్రాప్తి కాదు; పరస్పర ఆనందం, సౌకర్యం, గౌరవం మరియు భావోద్వేగ అనుబంధం కూడా అవసరం.
- క్లిటోరిస్ గురించి అవగాహన మహిళల ఆనందాన్ని అర్థం చేసుకోవడంలో ముఖ్యమైనది.
- సెక్స్ సమయంలో నొప్పిని “సాధారణం” లేదా “మహిళగా నీ బాధ్యత”గా భావించకూడదు.
- ప్రతి లైంగిక చర్యకు స్పష్టమైన, స్వచ్ఛందమైన మరియు ఎప్పుడైనా మార్చుకోగల సమ్మతి అవసరం.
- హైమెన్ కన్యత్వానికి శాస్త్రీయ రుజువు కాదు.
- లైంగిక కోరిక సహజమైన మానవ అనుభవం; దాని గురించి సిగ్గు లేదా అపరాధ భావనను బలవంతంగా మోపకూడదు.
- లైంగిక విద్య అనేది పిల్లలను లైంగిక కార్యకలాపాలకు ప్రోత్సహించడం కాదు; శరీర భద్రత, హద్దులు, సమ్మతి మరియు ఆరోగ్యం గురించి నేర్పడం.
- భాగస్వామితో “నాకు ఇది నచ్చింది”, “ఇది సౌకర్యంగా లేదు”, “ఆపండి” వంటి మాటలను స్పష్టంగా చెప్పగలగడం ఆరోగ్యకరమైన సంబంధానికి అవసరం.
- లైంగిక ఆరోగ్యం మొత్తం ఆరోగ్యంలో ఒక భాగం; అవసరమైతే గైనకాలజిస్ట్, యూరాలజిస్ట్ లేదా సెక్స్ థెరపిస్ట్ను సంప్రదించాలి.
## తెలుగు అనువాదం
### సిగ్గును ఎలా అధిగమించాలి?
**(32:50)**
ఈ చర్చ నన్ను ఒక విషయం అడగాలని అనిపించేలా చేసింది. ప్రతి వ్యక్తి తనకు నచ్చిన కారణంతో ఈ రంగంలోకి రావచ్చు—ప్రపంచానికి అవగాహన కల్పించడానికి, తన అనుభవాలను పంచుకోవడానికి లేదా ఇతరుల జీవితాలను మెరుగుపరచడానికి.
తల్లిదండ్రులు పిల్లలకు ముఖ్యమైన ఆదర్శప్రాయులు. చిన్న వయస్సులో పొందే విద్య ఒక వ్యక్తి ఆలోచనా విధానాన్ని, వ్యక్తిత్వాన్ని రూపొందించడంలో ఎంతో ప్రభావం చూపుతుంది.
కొన్ని పాఠశాలల్లో వయస్సుకు తగిన సమయంలోనే పిల్లలకు శరీర భాగాల సరైన పేర్లు నేర్పుతున్నారు. ఉదాహరణకు, “వల్వా”, “పీనిస్” వంటి శాస్త్రీయ పదాలను ఉపయోగిస్తున్నారు. వాటిని సిగ్గు లేదా నిందతో అనుసంధానం చేయడం లేదు.
అయితే మనలో నాటుకుపోయిన ఈ సిగ్గును ఎలా తొలగించుకోవచ్చు? చిన్నప్పటి పెంపకం మీపై ఎలా ప్రభావం చూపింది?
***
### కుటుంబం ఇచ్చిన ప్రభావం
**(33:20)**
సెక్స్ను సిగ్గుపడాల్సిన విషయంగా చూడని తల్లిదండ్రులు నాకు లభించడం నా అదృష్టం. ఇంట్లోనే వ్యతిరేకత ఎదురైతే, నేను చేస్తున్న పనిని కొనసాగించడం చాలా కష్టంగా ఉండేది.
నేను గోవాలో పెరిగాను. నా తల్లిదండ్రులు చాలా స్వేచ్ఛాయుతమైన ఆలోచనలున్నవారు. అందువల్ల సెక్స్ సిగ్గుపడాల్సిన విషయం కాదని, అది మానవ జీవితంలోని సహజమైన మరియు అందమైన భాగమని నా నమ్మకం చాలా బలంగా ఉంది.
ఎవరైనా ఏం చెప్పినా ఆ నమ్మకాన్ని మార్చలేరు. నేను చేస్తున్న పని గౌరవప్రదమైనది కాదేమో అని ఎప్పుడూ అనుకోలేదు.
ప్రతి ఒక్కరూ తమ లైంగికతను ఒక్క చుక్క సిగ్గు కూడా అడ్డుకోకుండా, పూర్తిగా మరియు సంతోషంగా అనుభవించాలని నేను కోరుకుంటాను. ముఖ్యంగా మహిళలు తమకు తాము స్థలం కల్పించుకోవాలి. తమ కోరికలను అంగీకరించడానికి వారు సిగ్గుపడకూడదు.
అయితే నా విషయంలో సిగ్గును అధిగమించడం ప్రధాన ప్రయాణం కాదు. నా స్వంత ఆనందం గురించి నాకు అవగాహన లేకపోవడమే అసలు విషయం.
***
### మహిళల స్వంత ఆనందం
**(34:39)**
కాలేజీ నుంచి ఇరవైల్లో చివరి దశ వరకు దాదాపు పది సంవత్సరాల పాటు నాకు నా ఆనందం ఎలా పనిచేస్తుందో తెలియదు.
నేను న్యూయార్క్లోని చాలా స్వేచ్ఛాయుతమైన వాతావరణం ఉన్న కాలేజీలో చదివాను. నాకు బాయ్ఫ్రెండ్ ఉన్నాడు, లైంగిక సంబంధాలు కూడా ఉన్నాయి. “నేను సెక్స్లో ఉన్నప్పుడు ప్రత్యేకంగా హస్తప్రయోగం ఎందుకు చేయాలి?” అని అనుకునేదాన్ని.
కానీ భావప్రాప్తి నాకు చాలా దూరమైన విషయంలా అనిపించేది. నేను తరచుగా భావప్రాప్తి చెందినట్లు నటించేదాన్ని. అది ఎప్పుడైనా జరిగితే నా అదృష్టం అనుకునేదాన్ని—ఏదో మాంత్రికుడు వచ్చి ఏదో చేశాడేమో అన్నట్లుగా.
నేను 27 సంవత్సరాల వయస్సులో మొదటిసారి సెక్స్ టాయ్ ఉపయోగించినప్పుడు చాలా ఆశ్చర్యపోయాను. కొద్దిసేపు కేంద్రీకృతమైన క్లిటోరిస్ ప్రేరణతోనే భావప్రాప్తి మరింత సులభంగా, స్థిరంగా జరుగుతుందని అర్థమైంది.
ఒంటరిగా అయినా, ప్రవేశంతో కలిపి అయినా, క్లిటోరిస్కు తగిన మరియు నిరంతరమైన ప్రేరణ మహిళలకు భావప్రాప్తి పొందడాన్ని సులభతరం చేయవచ్చు.
“నా చదువు, నా కుటుంబ నేపథ్యం, నాకు లభించిన స్వేచ్ఛ అన్నీ ఉన్నప్పటికీ, నా స్వంత భావప్రాప్తి గురించి తెలుసుకోవడానికి నాకు పదేళ్లు పట్టింది” అని అర్థమైంది.
అందుకే ఈ విషయాన్ని బహిరంగంగా చెప్పాలి అనిపిస్తుంది. ఏ మహిళా భావప్రాప్తి లేకుండా జీవితాంతం ఉండాల్సిన అవసరం లేదు.
ఇప్పటికీ కొంతమంది మహిళలు, “నాకు పెళ్లై పదేళ్లు అయింది, ఇద్దరు పిల్లలు ఉన్నారు, కానీ నాకు ఎప్పుడూ భావప్రాప్తి కలగలేదు” అని చెబుతుంటారు.
***
## తల్లిదండ్రులు, విద్యావేత్తల పాత్ర
**(36:13)**
పిల్లల ఎదుగుదల దశలో తల్లిదండ్రులు, ఉపాధ్యాయులు ఎలాంటి వాతావరణాన్ని సృష్టించాలి?
చాలామంది సెక్స్ అంటే కేవలం శారీరక చర్య అనుకుంటారు. కానీ అది దానికంటే చాలా ఎక్కువ. ప్రవేశం అనేది మొత్తం అనుభవంలో ఒక చిన్న భాగం మాత్రమే.
సెక్స్తో పాటు అనేక భావోద్వేగాలు వస్తాయి. పిల్లలకు శరీర మార్పులు మాత్రమే కాకుండా, ఆకర్షణ, ఉత్సాహం, భయం, సిగ్గు, నిరాకరణ, కోరిక మరియు గందరగోళం వంటి భావాలను కూడా అర్థం చేసుకోవడం నేర్పాలి.
పిల్లలకు మొదట నేర్పాల్సిన విషయాల్లో ఒకటి **నిరాకరణను అంగీకరించడం**.
మీకు ఎవరైనా నచ్చవచ్చు. కానీ వారు మిమ్మల్ని తిరస్కరించే అవకాశం ఉంది. ఒకసారి కాదు, అనేకసార్లు కూడా తిరస్కరించవచ్చు. దానికి ప్రతిస్పందనగా కోపం, హింస లేదా దాడి చేయడం సరైంది కాదు.
ఎవరైనా మిమ్మల్ని ఇష్టపడకపోవచ్చు. అది జీవితంలో సహజమైన భాగం. తిరస్కరణను గౌరవంగా స్వీకరించడం నేర్చుకోవాలి.
ఎవరినైనా చూసినప్పుడు ఉత్సాహం లేదా ఆకర్షణ కలగవచ్చు. దాంతో నాడీబద్ధత, సిగ్గు లేదా ఉద్రిక్తత కూడా రావచ్చు. మొదటిసారి లైంగిక అనుభవంలో కూడా ఇలాంటి భావాలు కలగవచ్చు.
ఆకర్షణ, కోరిక మరియు శారీరక ఉద్రేకం సహజంగా కలగవచ్చు. శరీరం ఎలా స్పందించవచ్చు, మనసులో ఏ ఆలోచనలు రావచ్చు, ఏ భావాలు కలగవచ్చు అనే విషయాలను పిల్లలకు వయస్సుకు తగిన రీతిలో వివరించాలి.
ఇలాంటి విషయాలను పూర్తిగా దాచిపెట్టడం వల్ల పిల్లలు సరైన అవగాహన లేకుండా పెరుగుతారు.
***
## పిల్లలతో సంభాషణ ఎలా ప్రారంభించాలి?
**(38:12)**
కొంతమంది తల్లిదండ్రులు తమ పిల్లలతో నేరుగా ఈ విషయాల గురించి మాట్లాడితే పిల్లలు వినరని భావిస్తారు.
ఒక తల్లి చెప్పిన పద్ధతి ఏమిటంటే—లైంగిక విద్యకు సంబంధించిన ఒక వీడియో లేదా చర్చను భోజన సమయంలో సంభాషణకు అంశంగా ఉపయోగించడం. అలా చేస్తే ఎవరికీ నేరుగా ఒత్తిడి అనిపించదు.
పిల్లలకు వారు ఏదైనా అనుభవించినప్పుడు శరీరం, మనసు ఎలా స్పందించవచ్చో ముందుగానే వివరించాలి. భావోద్వేగాలను అర్థం చేసుకోవడం చాలా ముఖ్యం.
లేకపోతే కొంతమంది అబ్బాయిలు సెక్స్ను ఎలాంటి భావోద్వేగం లేకుండా చేయవచ్చని అనుకోవచ్చు. కానీ ఎవరూ నిజంగా భావోద్వేగ రహితులు కాదు.
***
## సమ్మతి చిన్నప్పటి నుంచే నేర్చుకోవాలి
**(39:05)**
సమ్మతి అనే భావన కేవలం లైంగిక సంబంధాలకు మాత్రమే పరిమితం కాదు. పిల్లలను ఎలా పెంచుతున్నామన్నది కూడా సమ్మతితో సంబంధం కలిగి ఉంటుంది.
మనము పిల్లలను ఒక చోటు నుంచి మరో చోటుకు తీసుకెళ్తాం, వారికి బట్టలు వేస్తాం, ఆహారం ఇస్తాం. కానీ వారు ఏం కోరుకుంటున్నారు, ఏది ఇష్టం లేదా ఇష్టం లేదు అనే విషయాలను ఎప్పుడూ అడగకపోవచ్చు.
పిల్లలకు చిన్న విషయాల్లో కూడా ఎంపిక చేసే అవకాశం ఇవ్వాలి:
- ఏ బట్టలు ధరించాలి?
- ఏ ఆహారం తినాలి?
- ఎవరైనా కౌగిలించుకోవాలా?
- ఏ ఆట ఆడాలి?
- ఎప్పుడు ఒంటరిగా ఉండాలి?
అయితే ప్రతి పిల్లవాడు స్వతంత్ర నిర్ణయాలు తీసుకోవడాన్ని ఒకే విధంగా ఇష్టపడడు. కొందరికి “నువ్వే నీ బట్టలు ఎంచుకో” అని చెప్పడం కూడా ఆందోళన కలిగించవచ్చు. కాబట్టి పిల్లల స్వభావాన్ని గమనిస్తూ, నెమ్మదిగా ఎంపికలపై అవగాహన కల్పించాలి.
***
## పిల్లలకు ఏ వయస్సులో చెప్పాలి?
**(40:09)**
“సెక్స్ టాయ్స్ లేదా సెక్స్ గురించి పిల్లలకు ఏ వయస్సులో చెప్పాలి?” అనే ప్రశ్నకు ఒకే వయస్సు సమాధానం కాదు.
పిల్లలు ప్రశ్నలతో తల్లిదండ్రుల వద్దకు వచ్చేలా సురక్షితమైన వాతావరణం సృష్టించాలి. పిల్లల వద్ద ఇంటర్నెట్ ఉండటం వల్ల వారు పెద్దలు ఊహించనంత సమాచారం తెలుసుకుని ఉండవచ్చు.
పిల్లలకు ఏ సమాచారం కావాలో, వారు అడిగే ప్రశ్నలను బట్టి వయస్సుకు తగిన సమాధానాలు ఇవ్వాలి.
తల్లిదండ్రులు తమ ఇంట్లో ఇలాంటి విషయాలు పూర్తిగా నిషేధితమైనవి లేదా అసహ్యకరమైనవి అన్న వాతావరణం సృష్టించకూడదు. పుస్తకాలు లేదా శరీర అవగాహనకు సంబంధించిన విషయాలు సహజంగా కనిపించేలా ఉంటే, పిల్లలకు ప్రశ్నలు అడగడం సులభం అవుతుంది.
అయితే పిల్లల వయస్సుకు తగని స్పష్టమైన లైంగిక విషయాలను వారికి అందుబాటులో ఉంచడం అవసరం లేదు. సమాచారాన్ని వయస్సుకు, అవగాహనకు మరియు సందర్భానికి తగినట్లుగా ఇవ్వాలి.
***
## సురక్షితమైన తల్లిదండ్రుల వాతావరణం
**(41:39)**
తల్లిదండ్రులు పిల్లలకు సురక్షితమైన వ్యక్తులుగా ఉండాలి. పిల్లలు ఏ ప్రశ్న అడిగినా తక్షణం మందలించకుండా, ముందుగా వినాలి.
చాలామంది పిల్లలు తల్లిదండ్రుల వద్దకు రాకుండా స్నేహితులు, ఇంటర్నెట్ లేదా సోషల్ మీడియా నుంచి సమాచారం పొందుతారు. కారణం—తల్లిదండ్రులే సెక్స్ గురించి మాట్లాడటానికి ఇబ్బంది పడుతుండటం.
తల్లిదండ్రులు ముందుగా తమ సిగ్గు, అసౌకర్యం మరియు భయాలను పరిశీలించాలి. తమ అసౌకర్యాన్ని పిల్లలకు బదిలీ చేయకూడదు.
తల్లిదండ్రులు లేదా ఉపాధ్యాయుల నుంచి శాస్త్రీయంగా సరైన, తీర్పులేని సమాధానాలు పొందే పిల్లలు సాధారణంగా:
- లైంగిక సంబంధాలను ఆలస్యం చేయగలరు.
- ప్రమాదకర నిర్ణయాలు తక్కువగా తీసుకోవచ్చు.
- తమ మరియు భాగస్వామి ఆరోగ్యం, భద్రతపై ఎక్కువ శ్రద్ధ చూపవచ్చు.
- సమ్మతి, గర్భనిరోధకం మరియు శరీర హద్దులను బాగా అర్థం చేసుకోవచ్చు.
సమాచారం ఇవ్వడం వల్ల పిల్లలు లైంగిక విషయాలపై మరింత ఆసక్తి చూపుతారని అనుకోవడం తప్పు. నిషేధం మరియు రహస్య వాతావరణమే కొన్నిసార్లు ఆసక్తిని పెంచుతుంది.
***
## వయస్సుకు తగిన లైంగిక విద్య
**(43:10)**
లైంగిక విద్య ఒక్కసారి చేసే సంభాషణ కాదు; అది వయస్సుకు అనుగుణంగా కొనసాగాల్సిన ప్రక్రియ.
పిల్లలు వీధిలో జంతువులు జతకట్టడం చూసి ప్రశ్నిస్తే, వాటి పునరుత్పత్తి గురించి సరళంగా చెప్పవచ్చు.
పిల్లలు తమ శరీరాన్ని తాకుతున్నప్పుడు లేదా స్వీయ-ఆశ్వాసం పొందుతున్నప్పుడు వారిని కొట్టడం, అవమానించడం లేదా భయపెట్టడం మంచిది కాదు. వ్యక్తిగత ప్రదేశం, గోప్యత మరియు శరీర హద్దుల గురించి ప్రశాంతంగా చెప్పాలి.
ఇంటర్నెట్ యుగంలో పిల్లలు అశ్లీల కంటెంట్ను అనుకోకుండా చూడవచ్చు. అందువల్ల తల్లిదండ్రులు మీడియా అవగాహన గురించి మాట్లాడాలి:
- ఇంటర్నెట్లో కనిపించే ప్రతిదీ నిజం కాదు.
- అశ్లీల కంటెంట్ నిజమైన సంబంధాలను ప్రతిబింబించదు.
- అందులో సమ్మతి, భద్రత లేదా భావోద్వేగ అనుబంధం కనిపించకపోవచ్చు.
- ఎవరైనా పంపమన్నందుకు వ్యక్తిగత ఫోటోలు లేదా వీడియోలు పంపకూడదు.
- అసౌకర్యం కలిగించే కంటెంట్ కనిపిస్తే నమ్మకమైన పెద్దవారికి చెప్పాలి.
ఇది జరగదని దాచిపెట్టడం వల్ల అది ఆగదు. పిల్లలను భద్రంగా, జ్ఞానంతో సిద్ధం చేయడం మంచిది.
***
## సమ్మతి అంటే ఏమిటి?
**(44:38)**
తిరస్కరణను ఎలా స్వీకరించాలి, తనను తాను ఎలా నియంత్రించుకోవాలి, ఇతరులను ఎలా గౌరవించాలి అనే విషయాలు చిన్న వయస్సులోనే నేర్చుకోవాలి.
భారతీయ సినిమాల్లో కొన్నిసార్లు సమ్మతిని అర్థం చేసుకోని, మహిళల నిరాకరణను పట్టించుకోని పురుష పాత్రలను ఆకర్షణీయంగా చూపిస్తారు. ఇలాంటి సినిమాలు బాగా విజయవంతమవుతాయి.
ఇది ఎందుకు జరుగుతుంది? ఎందుకంటే ప్రజలకు తరచూ అదే కథనం అందించబడుతుంది—“చెడ్డ అబ్బాయి” చివరకు మంచివాడవుతాడు, అతని దూకుడును ప్రేమగా చూపిస్తారు.
కానీ నిజ జీవితంలో నియంత్రణ, ఒత్తిడి, వెంటాడటం, హింస లేదా నిరాకరణను పట్టించుకోకపోవడం ప్రేమ కాదు.
ఒక మహిళ తన ఇష్టాన్ని మార్చుకోవచ్చు. ఆమె మొదట అవును చెప్పినా తరువాత కాదు చెప్పవచ్చు. ఆమె పెళ్లైన వ్యక్తి అయినా, గతంలో అదే వ్యక్తితో అంగీకరించినా, ఏ క్షణంలోనైనా తన అభిప్రాయాన్ని మార్చుకోవచ్చు.
ఒక విషయంలో సమ్మతించడం మరొక విషయంలో సమ్మతించినట్లే కాదు.
మౌనం సమ్మతి కాదు. శరీర స్పందన లేదా ఆనందం కనిపించడం కూడా కొనసాగించడానికి అనుమతి కాదు.
***
## హద్దులు మరియు “కాదు” చెప్పడం
**(49:13)**
సమ్మతి అనేది కేవలం “అవును” లేదా “కాదు” అనే రెండు పదాలకు మాత్రమే పరిమితం కాదు. కొన్నిసార్లు పరిస్థితి సంక్లిష్టంగా ఉంటుంది.
ఒక వ్యక్తి భాగస్వామిని ఇష్టపడవచ్చు, ప్రేమించవచ్చు, ముద్దు పెట్టుకుని ఉండవచ్చు, సంవత్సరాలుగా వివాహంలో ఉండవచ్చు—అయినా ఒక నిర్దిష్ట సమయంలో ఏదో ఒక చర్య చేయాలని అనిపించకపోవచ్చు.
భాగస్వామిని బాధపెట్టకూడదనే ఉద్దేశంతో ఇష్టంలేకపోయినా “అవును” అని చెప్పే పరిస్థితి రావచ్చు. ఇది నిజమైన స్వేచ్ఛాయుతమైన సమ్మతి కాదు; ఒత్తిడి వల్ల వచ్చిన సమ్మతి కావచ్చు.
ఉదాహరణకు, ఒక వ్యక్తి భాగస్వామి కోరుతున్నాడని ఇష్టంలేని లైంగిక అనుభవానికి అంగీకరించవచ్చు. ఆ సమయంలో శరీరం ఆనందాన్ని అనుభవించినా, తరువాత మళ్లీ చేయకూడదని చెప్పే హక్కు ఆమెకు ఉంటుంది.
శరీరం ఆనందాన్ని అనుభవించింది కాబట్టి, మనసు ఎప్పటికీ అంగీకరించాలి అనే నియమం లేదు.
“ఆ సమయంలో నాకు ఆనందం కలిగింది, కాబట్టి ఇకపై నేను కాదు అనలేను” అనుకోవడం తప్పు.
***
## హద్దులు శిక్షలు కావు
**(53:05)**
కొత్త అనుభవానికి ముందే భాగస్వామితో స్పష్టంగా మాట్లాడాలి:
“నువ్వు దీన్ని ప్రయత్నించాలని కోరుకుంటున్నావు కాబట్టి నేను ఇప్పుడు అంగీకరిస్తున్నాను. కానీ నాకు నచ్చకపోతే ఎప్పుడైనా ఆపమని చెబుతాను. అప్పుడు నువ్వు వెంటనే గౌరవించాలి.”
ఈ విషయాలను ఊహించకుండా, మాటల్లో స్పష్టంగా చెప్పడం మంచిది.
హద్దులు ఇతరులను శిక్షించడానికి కాదు; మన భద్రతను కాపాడుకోవడానికి.
కొన్ని హద్దులు కఠినంగా ఉంటాయి. మరికొన్ని చర్చించి మార్చుకోవచ్చు. కానీ “చాలా హద్దులు పెట్టుకుంటే భాగస్వామి నన్ను వదిలేస్తాడు” అని భయపడాల్సిన అవసరం లేదు.
మీకు అవసరమైనంత హద్దులు పెట్టుకునే హక్కు మీకు ఉంది.
***
## మహిళలపై ఉన్న అపోహలు
**(54:21)**
సమాజంలో కొన్ని తప్పు కథనాలు ఉన్నాయి:
- లైంగికంగా ఆత్మవిశ్వాసం ఉన్న మహిళ ఎప్పుడూ సెక్స్కు సిద్ధంగా ఉంటుందని భావించడం.
- చిన్న స్కర్ట్, మేకప్ లేదా పార్టీకి వెళ్లడం లైంగిక ఆహ్వానమని అనుకోవడం.
- మహిళ ఎప్పుడూ మూడ్లో ఉండదని, తలనొప్పి అనే కారణం చెబుతుందని భావించడం.
- పురుషుడు ఎప్పుడూ సెక్స్ కోరుకుంటాడని అనుకోవడం.
- మహిళల దుస్తులు వారి స్వభావాన్ని లేదా సమ్మతిని నిర్ణయిస్తాయని భావించడం.
- ఒక మహిళకు లైంగిక అనుభవం ఉంటే ఆమె వివాహానికి తగదని అనుకోవడం.
ఒక మహిళ లైంగికంగా చురుకుగా ఉండవచ్చు, అదే సమయంలో ఎవరికి అయినా “కాదు” చెప్పే పూర్తి హక్కు ఆమెకు ఉంటుంది.
ఒక వ్యక్తి గౌరవప్రదమైనవాడిగానూ, తన లైంగికతను అంగీకరించినవాడిగానూ ఉండవచ్చు. ఇవి పరస్పర విరుద్ధమైన విషయాలు కావు.
పురుషులు ఎప్పుడూ లైంగికంగా సిద్ధంగా ఉంటారు, వారు ఎప్పుడూ వేటగాళ్లలాగా ఉంటారు అనే అపోహలు పురుషులకూ నష్టం చేస్తాయి. పురుషులకు కూడా కోరిక ఉండవచ్చు, లేకపోవచ్చు; వారు కూడా ఒత్తిడి లేదా అసురక్షిత భావనను అనుభవించవచ్చు.
***
## లైంగికత ఒక తోటలాంటిది
**(57:02)**
మన లైంగికతను ఒక తోటలా ఊహించవచ్చు.
మన కుటుంబం, సంస్కృతి, మతం మరియు పెరిగిన వాతావరణం ఆ తోటలో కొన్ని మొక్కలు, చెట్లు మరియు కలుపు మొక్కలను ముందుగానే నాటుతాయి.
కానీ మనం పెద్దవారై, మన గురించి అవగాహన పెంచుకున్నప్పుడు ఆ తోటను ఎలా తీర్చిదిద్దాలో మనమే నిర్ణయించవచ్చు.
కొన్ని నమ్మకాలను తొలగించవచ్చు. కొత్త అవగాహనను పెంచవచ్చు. మనకు సరిపోని సామాజిక నియమాలను ప్రశ్నించవచ్చు.
మన లైంగికత స్థిరంగా ముందే నిర్ణయించబడిన విషయం కాదు. మనకు ఎంపికలు, స్వేచ్ఛ మరియు స్వీయ అవగాహన ఉన్నాయి.
పురుషులు, మహిళలు సహజంగానే పూర్తిగా భిన్నమని అనుకునే అనేక విషయాలు వాస్తవానికి సామాజిక శిక్షణ వల్ల ఏర్పడినవే కావచ్చు.
***
## కన్యత్వం, గౌరవం, హైమెన్
**(58:55)**
మహిళ కన్యత్వాన్ని కుటుంబం లేదా సమాజం మొత్తం గౌరవంతో అనుసంధానించడం పితృస్వామ్య ఆలోచన.
ఒక మహిళ ఎవరికీ తన శరీరం లేదా లైంగిక జీవితానికి సంబంధించిన “గౌరవాన్ని” మోసుకెళ్లాల్సిన అవసరం లేదు.
హైమెన్ను కన్యత్వానికి రుజువుగా చూడటం పూర్తిగా శాస్త్రీయ ఆధారం లేని నమ్మకం. మొదటిసారి లైంగిక సంబంధంలో ప్రతి మహిళకూ రక్తస్రావం జరగదు.
హైమెన్ ఒక గోడలా ఉండదు. అది మృదువైన, సాగదగిన కణజాలం. కొందరిలో అది చాలా తక్కువగా ఉండవచ్చు; మరికొందరిలో పుట్టుకతోనే భిన్నంగా ఉండవచ్చు. కొందరిలో అది వృద్ధాప్యం వరకు కూడా కొంతవరకు ఉండవచ్చు.
మొదటి లైంగిక సంబంధంలో రక్తస్రావం లేకపోవడం వల్ల కన్యత్వంపై ఎలాంటి నిర్ణయం తీసుకోలేం.
రక్తస్రావం జరిగితే అది కొన్నిసార్లు తగినంత లూబ్రికేషన్ లేకపోవడం, గాయం లేదా ఇతర కారణాల వల్ల కావచ్చు. అధికంగా లేదా ఆగకుండా రక్తస్రావం జరిగితే వెంటనే వైద్య సహాయం తీసుకోవాలి.
ఒక మహిళ తన కుటుంబ గౌరవాన్ని శరీరంలో మోస్తున్న వ్యక్తి కాదు. ఆమెకు స్వతంత్ర వ్యక్తిత్వం, ఆలోచనలు, భావాలు మరియు హక్కులు ఉన్నాయి.
***
## లైంగిక సంబంధం కోసం సరైన వయస్సు
**(1:05:54)**
లైంగిక సంబంధానికి “సరైన వయస్సు” అనే ప్రశ్నకు ప్రపంచవ్యాప్తంగా ఒకే సమాధానం లేదు. అయితే చట్టం, వయస్సు, శారీరక-మానసిక పరిపక్వత మరియు సమ్మతి చాలా ముఖ్యమైనవి.
భారతదేశంలో సమ్మతి వయస్సు 18 సంవత్సరాలు. 18 సంవత్సరాల కంటే తక్కువ వయస్సున్న వ్యక్తి లైంగిక సంబంధానికి చట్టబద్ధమైన సమ్మతి ఇవ్వగలడని చట్టం అంగీకరించదు.
చట్టపరమైన విషయాల్లో స్పష్టత కోసం తాజా భారతీయ చట్టాలు మరియు నిపుణుల సలహాను అనుసరించాలి. పెద్దవారు పిల్లలపై లైంగిక ఒత్తిడి లేదా దుర్వినియోగం చేయడం ఎట్టి పరిస్థితుల్లోనూ సమర్థనీయం కాదు.
పిల్లలకు వయస్సుకు తగిన శరీర అవగాహన, భద్రత, సమ్మతి మరియు ఆన్లైన్ ప్రమాదాల గురించి ముందుగానే బోధించాలి.
యువతను సమాచారం లేకుండా ఉంచడం వారిని సురక్షితంగా చేయదు. సరైన సమాచారం వారికి జాగ్రత్తగా, బాధ్యతగా నిర్ణయాలు తీసుకోవడానికి సహాయపడుతుంది.
***
## చివరి భాగం: వివాహం తప్పనిసరా?
**(1:10:09)**
వివాహం మరియు పిల్లలను కనడం ప్రతి వ్యక్తికి తప్పనిసరి కాదు.
కొంతమందికి కుటుంబం నుంచి వివాహం చేసుకోవాలని ఒత్తిడి ఉండవచ్చు. మరికొందరికి అలాంటి ఒత్తిడి లేకపోవడం అదృష్టంగా అనిపించవచ్చు.
వ్యక్తి తనను తాను అర్థం చేసుకునే ముందే వివాహం గురించి నిర్ణయం తీసుకోవాల్సి రావడం అన్యాయం. వివాహం చేసుకోవాలా, ఎప్పుడు చేసుకోవాలి, పిల్లలు కావాలా అనే నిర్ణయాలు వ్యక్తిగత ఎంపికలుగా గౌరవించాలి.
## ముఖ్యమైన సారాంశం
- లైంగిక ఆరోగ్యంపై మాట్లాడటం సిగ్గుపడాల్సిన విషయం కాదు.
- పిల్లలకు వయస్సుకు తగిన శరీర అవగాహన మరియు సమ్మతి గురించి చిన్నప్పటి నుంచే నేర్పాలి.
- “కాదు” అనేది ఏ సమయంలోనైనా చెప్పవచ్చు; ముందుగా “అవును” అన్నా తరువాత మనసు మార్చుకోవచ్చు.
- శరీరం ఆనందాన్ని అనుభవించింది కాబట్టి మళ్లీ అదే అనుభవానికి అంగీకరించాల్సిన బాధ్యత లేదు.
- హద్దులు శిక్షలు కావు; అవి భద్రతకు అవసరం.
- హైమెన్ కన్యత్వానికి రుజువు కాదు; మొదటి సారి రక్తస్రావం తప్పనిసరి కాదు.
- మహిళల దుస్తులు, లైంగిక చరిత్ర లేదా ఆత్మవిశ్వాసం వారి సమ్మతిని నిర్ణయించవు.
- తల్లిదండ్రులు భయపెట్టకుండా, శాస్త్రీయంగా సరైన సమాధానాలు ఇచ్చే సురక్షితమైన వ్యక్తులుగా ఉండాలి.
- పిల్లలకు ఇంటర్నెట్లో కనిపించేది అంతా నిజం కాదని, అశ్లీల కంటెంట్ వాస్తవ సంబంధాలకు నమూనా కాదని వివరించాలి.
- లైంగిక సంబంధంలో పరస్పర సమ్మతి, గౌరవం, భద్రత మరియు సంభాషణ ఎల్లప్పుడూ ముఖ్యమైనవి.
### వివాహం తప్పనిసరి కాదు
**(1:10:33)**
చాలామంది తమకు ఇష్టం ఉన్నా లేకపోయినా, వివాహం అనే మార్గంలోకి నెట్టబడుతున్నారని నేను అనుకుంటున్నాను.
అదృష్టవశాత్తూ, నా తల్లిదండ్రుల నుంచి వచ్చిన అలాంటి ఒత్తిడిని నేను ఎప్పుడూ ఎదుర్కోవాల్సి రాలేదు. అందుకే నేను నిజంగా అదృష్టవంతురాలినని భావిస్తున్నాను. ఇది ఒక ప్రత్యేక హక్కు అని నాకు తెలుసు. కానీ ఇది ప్రత్యేక హక్కుగా ఉండకూడదని నేను కోరుకుంటాను.
చాలామంది తమను తాము పూర్తిగా అర్థం చేసుకునే ముందే వివాహం గురించి నిర్ణయం తీసుకోవాల్సి వస్తుంది.
**(1:10:51)**
చాలామంది భాగస్వామి లేకుండా జీవితాన్ని ఊహించుకోరు.
అవును. కానీ ఒకరితో జీవితాన్ని పంచుకున్నా తప్పనిసరిగా వివాహం చేసుకోవాల్సిన అవసరం లేదు. నాకు భాగస్వామి వద్దు అని కాదు. నా జీవితాన్ని పంచుకునే వ్యక్తి నాకు అవసరం లేదని కూడా కాదు.
నాకు దీర్ఘకాలిక సంబంధాలు ఉన్నాయి. ఒక భాగస్వామితో కలిసి కూడా జీవించాను. ప్రేమను నేను చాలా ఇష్టపడతాను. ప్రేమ విషయంలో నేను చాలా సున్నితమైన, ఆశావాద స్వభావం కలిగిన వ్యక్తిని.
స్నేహం, కలిసి ఉండటం, ప్రతిరోజూ మాట్లాడుకోవడం మరియు ఒకరి జీవితంలో మరొకరు భాగస్వాములు కావడం—ఇవి సంబంధాన్ని అందంగా మార్చగలవు.
అందువల్ల, “నాకు ఎవ్వరూ అవసరం లేదు” అని నేను చెప్పడం లేదు. రోజు చివర్లో ఎవరో ఒకరు నన్ను కౌగిలించుకోవాలని నేను కోరుకుంటాను.
కానీ ఆ సంబంధాన్ని నిర్వహించడానికి ప్రభుత్వ జోక్యం అవసరమా? అతని కుటుంబ అంచనాలను కూడా నేను భరించాలా? వద్దు, ధన్యవాదాలు.
**(1:11:32)**
వివాహం అంటే రెండు వ్యక్తుల కలయిక మాత్రమే కాదు; రెండు కుటుంబాల కలయికగా కూడా మారుతుంది. నా కుటుంబంతో వ్యవహరించడం నాకు చాలానే ఉంది. నీ కుటుంబం నీ సమస్య, నా కుటుంబం నా సమస్యగా ఉండటం మంచిది.
వివాహం తర్వాత సంబంధం కేవలం ఇద్దరి మధ్య ఉండదు. బయటకు రావడం లేదా వేరుపడటం కూడా కష్టమవుతుంది. “ఇప్పుడు మనం ఒకరితో ఒకరం చిక్కుకుపోయాం” అనే భావన రావచ్చు.
ప్రతి రోజు మనం ఒకరినొకరు ఎంచుకుంటున్నామనే భావన నాకు కావాలి. మనిద్దరం విడివిడిగా వెళ్లే అవకాశం ఉన్నప్పటికీ, కలిసి ఉండాలని ఎంచుకుంటే ఆ సంబంధానికి మరింత విలువ ఉంటుంది.
అలాంటి జీవితం సాధ్యమేనని నేను గుర్తు చేయాలనుకుంటున్నాను. అయితే ఆ ఎంపిక నాకు లభించడం నా అదృష్టం. చాలామంది మహిళలకు ఆర్థిక స్వాతంత్ర్యం ఉండదు.
వారికి ఉద్యోగం చేయడానికి కూడా అనుమతి అవసరమయ్యే పరిస్థితి ఉంటుంది. ఇప్పటికీ కొంతమంది, “నా అత్తమామలు నాకు ఉద్యోగం చేయడానికి అనుమతిస్తున్నారు” అని అంటారు.
ఇది అనేక కుటుంబాల్లో నిజమైన పరిస్థితి. ఒక మహిళ తన స్వంత డబ్బు సంపాదిస్తే, “వివాహం నాకు అదనంగా ఏమి ఇస్తోంది?” అని ఆమె ఆలోచించవచ్చు. తన స్వేచ్ఛను తగ్గించే అవకాశం ఉందని ఆమె భావించవచ్చు.
***
## వివాహానికి ముందు అనుకూలత
**(1:12:44)**
ఎవరైనా వివాహం చేసుకోవాలని నిర్ణయించుకుంటే, వివాహానికి ముందు లైంగిక అనుకూలతను అర్థం చేసుకోవడం ఉపయోగకరంగా ఉండవచ్చు. లైంగిక అనుకూలత సంబంధంలో ఒక ముఖ్యమైన అంశం.
**(1:13:07)**
ఇటీవల మేము మా 40వ వివాహ వార్షికోత్సవాన్ని జరుపుకున్నాం. నా భర్తను ఇంతకాలం చంపకుండా ఉండటం కూడా ఒక విజయమే అని సరదాగా చెప్పుకోవచ్చు.
దీర్ఘకాలిక ఏకపత్నీవ్రత సంబంధం చాలా కష్టమైనది. మనుషులు ఇంతకాలం జీవిస్తారని, ఇంతకాలం ఒకే సంబంధంలో ఉంటారని గతంలో ఊహించి ఉండకపోవచ్చు.
### ఏకపత్నీవ్రతం ఒక ఎంపిక
**(1:13:28)**
ఏకపత్నీవ్రతం అంటే నాకు కొంచెం భిన్నమైన అర్థం ఉంది. దీర్ఘకాలిక సంబంధంలో ఉన్నప్పుడు చాలామంది ఏకపత్నీవ్రతాన్ని స్వచ్ఛందంగా ఎంచుకుంటారు.
ఎందుకంటే అది భద్రతను కలిగిస్తుంది. మన భాగస్వామి మనతో ఉండాలని నిజంగా కోరుకుంటున్నాడని అనిపిస్తుంది. మనం ఒకరి జీవితంలో మరొకరికి ప్రధాన వ్యక్తులుగా ఉంటాం.
అది కేవలం సామాజిక నియమం వల్లనే కాకుండా, మనం ఆలోచించి చేసే ఎంపిక కూడా కావచ్చు.
మనుషులు ఇతరులను ఆకర్షణీయంగా చూడటం సహజం. జీవితంలోని ఏ దశలోనైనా మరొక వ్యక్తి మనకు నచ్చవచ్చు. కొన్నిసార్లు వారితో మాట్లాడాలనిపించవచ్చు; ఆ భావన కొద్దిసేపటికే తగ్గిపోవచ్చు.
కొన్నిసార్లు ఆ ఆకర్షణ ఎక్కువకాలం కొనసాగవచ్చు. అది కూడా సహజమే.
కానీ ఆ భావన వచ్చిన తర్వాత దాన్ని ఎలా నిర్వహించాలో నిర్ణయించుకోవాలి. దీర్ఘకాలిక సంబంధంలో ఉన్న బాధ్యతగల పెద్దవారిగా, మన సంబంధానికి అర్థం ఏమిటో అర్థం చేసుకుని నిర్ణయం తీసుకోవాలి.
***
## ప్రతి సంబంధానికి నియమాలు అవసరం
**(1:15:19)**
ఏ సంబంధ నిర్మాణమైనా—ఏకపత్నీవ్రతం, పాలియామరీ, సమలైంగిక సంబంధం, BDSM వంటి పరస్పర అంగీకార సంబంధం—అన్నింటికీ స్పష్టమైన నియమాలు మరియు పరస్పర అంగీకారం అవసరం.
కానీ సాధారణ భిన్నలింగ సంబంధంలో ఎలా వ్యవహరించాలో ఎవరూ మనకు నేర్పరు. మనల్ని సంబంధంలోకి నెట్టేసి, అది ఎలా విజయవంతం చేయాలో చెప్పకుండా వదిలేస్తారు.
నాకు కూడా సంబంధంలో ఎలా ఉండాలో ఎవరూ నేర్పలేదు. వివాహానికి ముందు ఒక అత్త మాత్రమే, “ఎప్పుడూ గొడవతో నిద్రపోకు” అని చెప్పింది.
అది మంచి సలహానే. కానీ గొడవ జరుగుతున్నప్పుడు ఎలా మాట్లాడాలి? కోపాన్ని ఎలా నియంత్రించాలి? సమస్యను ఎలా పరిష్కరించాలి? ఇవి ఎవరూ చెప్పలేదు.
ప్రజలకు ఈ విషయాల్లో మరింత మార్గదర్శనం అవసరం:
- హద్దులు ఎలా పెట్టుకోవాలి?
- కుటుంబ సభ్యుల జోక్యాన్ని ఎలా ఎదుర్కోవాలి?
- విభేదాలను ఎలా పరిష్కరించాలి?
- ఒకే వ్యక్తితో దీర్ఘకాలం సంతోషంగా ఎలా ఉండాలి?
- సంబంధంలో ప్రేమ, ఆకర్షణ మరియు స్నేహాన్ని ఎలా నిలబెట్టుకోవాలి?
***
## వివాహంలో మార్పులు మరియు సమస్యలు
**(1:17:05)**
నేను 23 సంవత్సరాల వయస్సులో వివాహం చేసుకున్నాను. నాకు జీవితంలో ఎదురయ్యే అనేక సమస్యలను ఎలా ఎదుర్కోవాలో తెలియదు.
నా కుటుంబంలో మహిళలకు స్వతంత్ర గుర్తింపు ఉంది. నా తల్లి, అమ్మమ్మ మరియు ముత్తాతమ్మ అందరూ చదువుకున్న, ఉద్యోగాలు చేసిన మహిళలు. మహిళల హక్కులు మరియు స్వతంత్రతపై మాకు నమ్మకం ఉండేది.
కానీ వివాహం తర్వాత కూడా కుటుంబ సభ్యులు, బంధువులు మరియు సమాజం నుంచి వచ్చే ఒత్తిడిని ఎలా ఎదుర్కోవాలో ఎవరూ నేర్పలేదు.
ఈ సమస్యలను పరిష్కరించడానికి నేను అనేక కన్నీళ్లు, గొడవలు మరియు కష్టాలను ఎదుర్కొన్నాను. చివరకు, మనలో మనం ఎవరో నెమ్మదిగా అర్థం చేసుకుంటాం.
వివాహంలో అన్నీ ఎప్పుడూ సంతోషంగా ఉండవు. 40 సంవత్సరాల తర్వాత కూడా మనుషులు మారుతూనే ఉంటారు. ప్రతిరోజూ మనం కొంత భిన్నమైన వ్యక్తులుగా మేల్కొంటాం.
ఒత్తిడి, అలసట, రాజకీయాలపై భిన్నాభిప్రాయాలు మరియు ఇతర పరిస్థితులు సంబంధాన్ని ప్రభావితం చేస్తాయి. మేము రాజకీయాలపై కూడా చాలాసార్లు గొడవపడతాం.
కానీ గొడవలు జరగడం కంటే, ఒకరితో ఒకరు మాట్లాడకుండా మౌనంగా ఉండటమే సంబంధానికి ఎక్కువ నష్టం చేస్తుందని మేము నేర్చుకున్నాం.
మౌనం మొదలైనప్పుడు సంబంధం క్షీణించడం ప్రారంభమవుతుంది. మా వివాహం ఇప్పటికీ ఒక ప్రయోగంలాంటిదే. ఏది సరిగ్గా చేస్తున్నామో, ఏది తప్పుగా చేస్తున్నామో ప్రతిసారీ మాకు తెలియదు.
***
## సంబంధంలో సంభాషణ ముఖ్యం
**(1:19:50)**
చాలామంది జంటలు సంబంధ సలహాదారులను లేదా మ్యారేజ్ థెరపిస్టులను సంప్రదిస్తారు. కానీ కొంతమంది పెద్దలు అలాంటి సహాయం తీసుకోవడానికి సిద్ధంగా ఉండరు.
మా విషయంలో, చాలా గొడవల తర్వాత కూడా ఒక నిర్ణయం తీసుకున్నాం—మా వివాహం కోసం ప్రయత్నం చేయాలి.
అది ఎల్లప్పుడూ సులభం కాదు. కానీ సంబంధాన్ని కొనసాగించడానికి ఇద్దరూ కృషి చేయాలి. వివాహం కష్టపడకుండా స్వయంగా సంతోషంగా ఉండదు.
వివాహం అంటే ఎప్పటికీ హనీమూన్లా ఉండాలని ఆశించడం వాస్తవికం కాదు. సంబంధంలో స్నేహం, శారీరక సాన్నిహిత్యం, సంభాషణ, నమ్మకం మరియు పరస్పర గౌరవం అవసరం.
***
## లైంగిక అనుకూలత అంటే ఏమిటి?
**(1:20:48)**
లైంగిక అనుకూలత అంటే కేవలం శారీరక ఆకర్షణ కాదు. అది శారీరక మరియు భావోద్వేగ అనుబంధాల కలయిక.
ఇద్దరి మధ్య ఒక ఆకర్షణ, ఒక ప్రత్యేకమైన అనుభూతి ఉండవచ్చు. కొన్నిసార్లు మనకు ఎదుటి వ్యక్తి శరీరం కంటే ముందుగా వారి ఆలోచనా విధానం నచ్చుతుంది.
ఆకర్షణ కోసం తప్పనిసరిగా సంప్రదాయబద్ధమైన అందం లేదా “పర్ఫెక్ట్” శరీరాకృతి అవసరం లేదు. వ్యక్తిత్వం, హాస్యం, తెలివితేటలు, దయ, పరస్పర గౌరవం మరియు భావోద్వేగ అనుబంధం కూడా ఆకర్షణలో భాగమే.
వివాహ నిర్ణయాల్లో తరచూ మతం, కులం, కుటుంబ నేపథ్యం వంటి అంశాలకు ప్రాధాన్యం ఇస్తారు. కానీ మేధోపరమైన, భావోద్వేగ మరియు శారీరక అనుకూలత కూడా ముఖ్యమే.
గతంలో వివాహాన్ని ప్రధానంగా పిల్లల్ని కనడం, కుటుంబాన్ని కొనసాగించడం కోసం చూసేవారు. కానీ సంబంధంలో ఆనందం, స్నేహం మరియు అనుకూలత కూడా అవసరం.
***
## ఆకర్షణ మారుతూ ఉంటుంది
**(1:23:26)**
కొత్తగా కలిసినప్పుడు ఇద్దరి మధ్య బలమైన ఆకర్షణ ఉండవచ్చు. కానీ అది కాలక్రమేణా తగ్గవచ్చు లేదా ఎత్తుపల్లాలకు లోనవ్వచ్చు.
ఆకర్షణ ఒక స్థిరమైన విషయం కాదు. దాన్ని నిలబెట్టడానికి ఇద్దరూ కృషి చేయాలి.
ఒకరి పట్ల గౌరవం కోల్పోతే ఆకర్షణ ఒక్కసారిగా తగ్గిపోవచ్చు. కొన్నిసార్లు ఎన్నో సంవత్సరాలుగా పేరుకుపోయిన అసంతృప్తి కారణం కావచ్చు. మరికొన్నిసార్లు ఒక్క సంఘటన చాలు.
వివాహాల్లో కూడా ఆకర్షణ తగ్గవచ్చు. దీర్ఘకాలిక కోపం, బాధ, అవమానం మరియు మాట్లాడని సమస్యలు లైంగిక అనుబంధాన్ని ప్రభావితం చేస్తాయి.
***
## జీవిత దశలు మరియు లైంగిక కోరిక
**(1:24:49)**
మహిళలు జీవితంలోని వేర్వేరు దశల్లోకి వెళ్తున్నప్పుడు లైంగిక కోరిక, లిబిడో మరియు శారీరక స్పందనల్లో మార్పులు రావచ్చు. ప్రసవం తర్వాత, పెరిమెనోపాజ్ మరియు మెనోపాజ్ సమయంలో ఈ మార్పులు కనిపించవచ్చు.
అయితే దీనిని కేవలం “కోరిక ఉంది” లేదా “కోరిక లేదు” అనే రెండు విభాగాలుగా చూడకూడదు.
ఇద్దరి మధ్య చాలా మృదువైన, ప్రశాంతమైన మరియు సౌకర్యవంతమైన అనుబంధం ఉండవచ్చు. అది కూడా మంచి లైంగిక సంబంధానికి దారితీయవచ్చు.
కోరిక తగ్గుతున్నట్లు అనిపిస్తే, భాగస్వామితో దాని గురించి మాట్లాడాలి. ఒక భాగస్వామి ఆధ్యాత్మికత లేదా మతపరమైన సాధన వైపు ఎక్కువగా వెళ్లినప్పుడు, మరొకరి లైంగిక ఆకర్షణ తగ్గవచ్చు.
అలాంటి సమయంలో మోసం చేయడం పరిష్కారం కాదు. బదులుగా సంబంధంలో ఏమి మారిందో, ఇద్దరి అవసరాలు ఏమిటో మాట్లాడుకోవాలి.
***
## దీర్ఘకాలిక సంబంధంలో సెక్స్పై ఒత్తిడి
**(1:27:35)**
డేటింగ్ సమయంలో సెక్స్ ఆనందంగా, స్వేచ్ఛగా అనిపించవచ్చు. కానీ నిబద్ధతతో కూడిన సంబంధంలోకి వెళ్లిన తర్వాత సెక్స్పై చాలా అంచనాలు ఏర్పడతాయి.
ఇది సంబంధాన్ని బలపరచాలి, ఎప్పుడూ ప్రత్యేకంగా ఉండాలి, ఇద్దరినీ బంధించి ఉంచాలి అనే ఒత్తిడి వస్తుంది. ఈ అధిక అంచనాలు కొన్నిసార్లు సహజమైన కోరికను తగ్గిస్తాయి.
కొన్నిసార్లు మనకు “సెక్స్” అని సాధారణంగా నిర్వచించే చర్య వద్దనిపించవచ్చు. ఆ సమయంలో కౌగిలింతలు, ముద్దులు, మాట్లాడుకోవడం, కలిసి సమయం గడపడం వంటి ఇతర సన్నిహిత రూపాలు కూడా ముఖ్యమే.
“ఇప్పుడు నాకు ప్రవేశం వద్దు, కానీ మన మధ్య సాన్నిహిత్యం కొనసాగాలని ఉంది” అని భాగస్వామితో చెప్పగలగాలి.
సెక్స్ ఎప్పుడూ అద్భుతంగా ఉండాలి, కోరిక లేకపోతే మనలో ఏదో సమస్య ఉందని భావించడం తప్పు.
***
## పెరిమెనోపాజ్ మరియు మెనోపాజ్
**(1:28:42)**
పెరిమెనోపాజ్ సమయంలో హార్మోన్లలో మార్పులు రావచ్చు. మెదడు మబ్బుగా అనిపించడం, అలసట, శరీర స్పందనలో మార్పులు మరియు లైంగిక కోరిక తగ్గడం జరగవచ్చు.
శరీరం అరోసల్కు మునుపటిలా స్పందించకపోవచ్చు. దీని అర్థం కోరిక ఎప్పటికీ పోయిందని కాదు. అది మారిన రూపంలో తిరిగి రావచ్చు.
మహిళకు మళ్లీ అరోసల్ కలగడానికి ఎక్కువ సమయం, భిన్నమైన స్పర్శ లేదా కొత్త వాతావరణం అవసరమవచ్చు. కోరిక నెమ్మదిగా రావచ్చు.
మెనోపాజ్ సమయంలో యోని పొడిబారడం లేదా శరీరమంతా అసౌకర్యం కలగవచ్చు. ఇది లైంగిక సంబంధాన్ని బాధాకరంగా మార్చవచ్చు.
కొంతమందికి లూబ్రికెంట్, వైద్య సలహా లేదా వైద్యుడు సూచించే స్థానిక ఈస్ట్రోజెన్ చికిత్స సహాయపడవచ్చు. ఇవి వ్యక్తిగత వైద్య పరిస్థితిని బట్టి మాత్రమే ఉపయోగించాలి.
ముఖ్యంగా, అరోసల్ కలిగిందని వెంటనే శరీరం పూర్తిగా సిద్ధంగా ఉందని అర్థం కాదు. శరీరానికి రక్తప్రసరణ మరియు సహజమైన తేమ పెరగడానికి ఎక్కువ సమయం పట్టవచ్చు.
అందువల్ల తొందరపడకుండా, తగినంత ఫోర్ప్లే మరియు సౌకర్యవంతమైన సమయం ఇవ్వాలి. నొప్పి ఉంటే ఆపి, వైద్యుడిని సంప్రదించాలి.
***
## మనసును సన్నిహితత్వానికి సిద్ధం చేయడం
**(1:31:18)**
సన్నిహితత్వానికి ముందు మనస్సును భాగస్వామి వైపు మళ్లించడం ముఖ్యం. పని, ఇమెయిల్లు, ఆర్థిక సమస్యలు మరియు ఇతర ఆలోచనల నుంచి కొంతకాలం దూరంగా ఉండాలి.
ఒకరితో ఒకరు సరదాగా మాట్లాడుకోవడం, నవ్వుకోవడం లేదా ఆసక్తికరమైన కథలు చెప్పుకోవడం ద్వారా మనస్సు ప్రస్తుత క్షణంలోకి రావచ్చు.
సన్నిహితత్వం తర్వాత ప్రేమతో కూడిన సంభాషణ, కౌగిలింతలు లేదా సౌకర్యవంతమైన సమయం ఇద్దరికీ భద్రతను కలిగించవచ్చు. ఆ అనుభవం ఎలా ముగిసిందో తదుపరి సారి భాగస్వామి ఎలా అనుభవిస్తారనే దానిపై ప్రభావం చూపుతుంది.
సెక్స్ ఒక బాధ్యతగా లేదా పనిలా మారితే, అందులో మీకు నిజంగా నచ్చిన భాగంపై దృష్టి పెట్టండి. అది కౌగిలింతలు కావచ్చు, మాట్లాడుకోవడం కావచ్చు లేదా కలిసి ప్రశాంతంగా ఉండటం కావచ్చు.
మీకు నచ్చిన ఆ భాగాన్ని ఎక్కువ సమయం కొనసాగించడం ద్వారా సంబంధంలో సాన్నిహిత్యం తిరిగి పెరగవచ్చు.
***
## ఎంత తరచుగా సెక్స్ చేయాలి?
**(1:33:05)**
జంటలు వారానికి ఎన్ని సార్లు సెక్స్ చేయాలనే బంగారు నియమం లేదు.
ఒక జంటకు తక్కువగా అనిపించే సంఖ్య మరొక జంటకు ఎక్కువగా అనిపించవచ్చు. ప్రతి జంట తమకు సరైన స్థాయిని కలిసి నిర్ణయించుకోవాలి.
పురుషులకే ఎప్పుడూ ఎక్కువ కోరిక ఉంటుందని, మహిళలకు తక్కువ కోరిక ఉంటుందని అనుకోవడం తప్పు. కొంతమంది మహిళలు తమ కోరిక భాగస్వామి కంటే ఎక్కువగా ఉందని చెబుతారు.
ఎవరికి ఎక్కువ కోరిక, ఎవరికి తక్కువ కోరిక అనే విషయంలో లింగ ఆధారిత నియమాలు లేవు.
సాధారణంగా తక్కువ లిబిడో ఉన్న వ్యక్తి ఎంత తరచుగా సౌకర్యంగా ఉందో దానికి గౌరవం ఇవ్వాలి. భాగస్వామిని ఎప్పుడూ బలవంతంగా సెక్స్ చేయించకూడదు.
సెక్స్ ఇద్దరికీ ఆనందంగా, సురక్షితంగా మరియు గౌరవప్రదంగా ఉంటే, ఇద్దరికీ మళ్లీ ఆసక్తి కలిగే అవకాశం ఎక్కువ.
***
## సెక్స్ను ప్రణాళిక చేసుకోవచ్చా?
**(1:34:49)**
కొంతమంది జంటలకు వారానికి ఒకసారి అనుకూలంగా ఉండవచ్చు. కానీ అది అందరికీ వర్తించే నియమం కాదు.
పని, పిల్లలు మరియు ఇతర బాధ్యతల మధ్య సమయం కేటాయించడం కష్టమవుతుంది. కాబట్టి పరిమాణం కంటే నాణ్యతకు ప్రాధాన్యం ఇవ్వడం మంచిది.
సెక్స్ను ముందుగానే ప్రణాళిక చేసుకోవడం రొమాంటిక్ కాదని అనుకోవాల్సిన అవసరం లేదు. ముఖ్యమైన వైద్య అపాయింట్మెంట్లు, సెలవులు లేదా ఇతర కార్యక్రమాలను ఎలా ప్లాన్ చేస్తామో, సన్నిహిత సమయాన్నీ అలాగే ప్లాన్ చేయవచ్చు.
ఇద్దరూ ఎదురుచూసేలా దాన్ని ఒక ప్రత్యేకమైన డేట్గా మార్చుకోవచ్చు.
***
## “64 కళలు” అంటే ఏమిటి?
**(1:35:28)**
ప్రాచీన కామశాస్త్రంలో చెప్పబడిన 64 కళలు కేవలం మహిళలు నేర్చుకోవాల్సినవి కావు; పురుషులు కూడా నేర్చుకోవాల్సినవే.
అవి కేవలం లైంగిక నైపుణ్యాలకు పరిమితం కావు. విదేశీ భాషలు నేర్చుకోవడం, పదబంధాల ఆటలు, చెస్, పాటలు, నృత్యం, కళలు మరియు అనేక ఇతర నైపుణ్యాలు అందులో ఉన్నాయి.
వాటి ఉద్దేశం వ్యక్తిత్వాన్ని అభివృద్ధి చేయడం. మనిషిని మరింత ఆసక్తికరమైన, సృజనాత్మకమైన మరియు ఆకర్షణీయమైన వ్యక్తిగా తీర్చిదిద్దడం.
## ముఖ్యమైన గమనికలు
- భారతదేశంలో POCSO చట్టం ప్రకారం 18 సంవత్సరాల కంటే తక్కువ వయస్సున్న వ్యక్తితో లైంగిక చర్య చట్టపరంగా నేరంగా పరిగణించబడుతుంది; పిల్లల “సమ్మతి” చట్టపరమైన రక్షణగా పరిగణించబడదు.[1][2]
- మెనోపాజ్ సమయంలో పొడిబారడం లేదా నొప్పి ఉంటే స్వయంగా హార్మోన్ మందులు వాడకుండా గైనకాలజిస్ట్ను సంప్రదించాలి.
- భాగస్వామి ఏ సమయంలోనైనా తన సమ్మతిని మార్చుకోవచ్చు; మౌనం లేదా గతంలో ఇచ్చిన సమ్మతి కొనసాగుతున్న సమ్మతి కాదు.
- ఆకర్షణ, కోరిక మరియు దీర్ఘకాలిక సంబంధాలు స్థిరంగా ఉండవు; వాటిని నిజాయితీగల సంభాషణ, గౌరవం మరియు పరస్పర కృషితో నిర్వహించాలి.
Citations:
[1] Protection of Children from Sexual Offences Act, 2012 was ... https://www.pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=2224436®=48&lang=2
[2] Protection of Children from Sexual Offences Act, 2012 was ... https://www.pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=2224436®=3&lang=1
[3] qaq.l nlra https://cdnbbsr.s3waas.gov.in/s3ca0daec69b5adc880fb464895726dbdf/uploads/2023/09/20230929466194485.pdf
[4] POCSO Act, 2012: Consensual Sex as a Matter of Tug of War ... - PMC https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8313457/
[5] Age of consent: challenges and contradictions of sexual violence ... https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8009025/
[6] Should the age of consent be lowered? https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/should-the-age-of-consent-be-lowered/article70497533.ece
[7] [PDF] CHAPTER SIX - Center for Reproductive Rights https://reproductiverights.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/SecuringReproductiveJusticeIndia-Chpt06.pdf
[8] www.theindiaforum.in › sites › defaultRethinking the Age of Consent in India https://www.theindiaforum.in/sites/default/files/article_pdf/2025/09/12/1859-1757645984.pdf
[9] SecuringReproductiveJusticeIndia-Chpt06.pdf https://reproductiverights.org/sites/default/files/2020-02/SecuringReproductiveJusticeIndia-Chpt06.pdf
[10] Sixteen And Illusion Of Maturity: A Collision Of Consent ... https://www.livelaw.in/articles/supreme-court-hearing-reducing-age-of-consent-case-pocso-act-analysis-309761
### సమయం కేటాయించడం
**(1:35:28)**
సెలవులు, డాక్టర్ అపాయింట్మెంట్లు ఎలా ముందుగానే ప్లాన్ చేసుకుంటామో, సన్నిహిత సమయాన్నీ అలాగే ప్లాన్ చేసుకోవచ్చు. దాన్ని ప్రత్యేకమైన డేట్లా భావించి ముందుగానే సిద్ధం కావడం తప్పు కాదు.
***
## 64 కళల ఉద్దేశం
పాత పుస్తకం *ది ఆర్ట్ ఆఫ్ సెడక్షన్*లో 64 కళల గురించి ఉంది. అందులో శారీరక దృఢత్వం 64వ స్థానంలో ఉంది. కానీ మొదటి స్థానాల్లో పాట పాడటం, నృత్యం వంటి కళలు ఉన్నాయి.
కామసూత్రంలోని 64 కళలు కేవలం మహిళలు నేర్చుకోవాల్సినవి కావు; పురుషులకు కూడా వర్తిస్తాయి.
అవి కేవలం సెక్స్కు సంబంధించిన 64 పద్ధతులు కాదు. విదేశీ భాషలు నేర్చుకోవడం, పదబంధాల ఆటలు, చెస్ ఆడటం, పాటలు పాడటం, నృత్యం చేయటం, కళలు మరియు అనేక ఇతర నైపుణ్యాలు ఇందులో ఉన్నాయి.
వాటి ఉద్దేశం వ్యక్తిత్వాన్ని అభివృద్ధి చేయడం. మనిషిని మరింత ఆసక్తికరమైన, సృజనాత్మకమైన మరియు ఆకర్షణీయమైన వ్యక్తిగా తీర్చిదిద్దడం.
ఒక వ్యక్తి సంప్రదాయ అర్థంలో ఎంత అందంగా కనిపించినా, కొద్దిసేపటి తర్వాత కేవలం రూపం మాత్రమే సరిపోదు. వ్యక్తిత్వాన్ని కలిపే అంశం అవసరం. అనేక విషయాలపై మాట్లాడగలగడం, ఆసక్తికరంగా ఉండడం, ఇతరులను అర్థం చేసుకోవడం—ఇవే వ్యక్తిని ఆకర్షణీయంగా మారుస్తాయి.
అందువల్ల 64 కళలు “సెక్స్ చేసే 64 మార్గాలు” కాదు. అవి వ్యక్తిత్వాన్ని పెంచి, మరింత మంచి భాగస్వామిగా మారడానికి సహాయపడే నైపుణ్యాలు.
***
## సంభాషణకు సంకేతాలు
కొన్ని ప్రాచీన సంప్రదాయాల్లో 64 కళలను శయనగృహంలో ఉపయోగించే సన్నిహిత నైపుణ్యాలతో కూడా అనుసంధానించారు.
ఉదాహరణకు, మంచాన్ని ఎలా సర్దుతారనే విషయం ద్వారా భాగస్వామికి తమ మానసిక స్థితిని తెలియజేసే రూపకం ఉంది. సంతోషంగా ఉన్నారా, కోపంగా ఉన్నారా, మాట్లాడాలని అనుకుంటున్నారా, లేక ఒంటరిగా ఉండాలని అనుకుంటున్నారా—ఇలాంటి భావాలను మాటలతో చెప్పలేని సమయంలో సంకేతాల ద్వారా వ్యక్తపరచడం గురించి అది సూచిస్తుంది.
అది వాస్తవానికి **సంభాషణ** గురించే.
మంచి లైంగిక సంబంధానికి మంచి సంభాషణ అవసరం. రెండు వేల సంవత్సరాల క్రితమే దీనిని గుర్తించినట్లు కనిపిస్తుంది.
కొన్ని ప్రాచీన పద్ధతుల్లో గోళ్లను చిన్నగా, మృదువుగా ఉంచడం గురించి కూడా చెప్పబడింది. ప్రేమ గీతలు లేదా ముద్దులకు సాంస్కృతిక అర్థాలు ఇచ్చేవారు. అయితే ఇవన్నీ పరస్పర సమ్మతి, సౌకర్యం మరియు భద్రతతోనే ఉండాలి.
***
## ఫోర్ప్లే ఎందుకు ముఖ్యం?
**(1:39:19)**
లైంగిక రసాయనాన్ని సృష్టించడానికి, కొనసాగించడానికి ఫోర్ప్లే చాలా ముఖ్యమైనది.
మహిళలు తమ శరీరాన్ని, తమకు ఏమి ఆనందం ఇస్తుందో తెలుసుకోవడానికి సాధారణంగా రోజువారీ జీవితంలో ప్రత్యేక సమయం కేటాయించరు. వ్యాయామం, జుట్టు సంరక్షణ, ఆహారం, మానసిక ఆరోగ్యం కోసం సమయం కేటాయిస్తారు. కానీ శరీర ఆనందాన్ని అర్థం చేసుకోవడానికి మాత్రం సమయం ఇవ్వరు.
మహిళల లైంగిక శరీరం చాలామందికి ఇప్పటికీ ఒక రహస్యంలా ఉంటుంది. మనకు ఏది తెలియదో కూడా మనకు తెలియకపోవచ్చు.
మహిళలు తమ వల్వాను సరిగ్గా చూసే అవకాశం కూడా చాలాసార్లు పొందరు. ఒక చిన్న అద్దం సహాయంతో శరీర నిర్మాణాన్ని తెలుసుకోవడం ఉపయోగకరంగా ఉండవచ్చు.
మూత్రం వెళ్లే రంధ్రం, యోని ప్రవేశం వేర్వేరు అని కూడా చాలామందికి తెలియదు. క్లిటోరిస్ ఎక్కడ ఉందో పురుషులు, మహిళలు ఇద్దరికీ తెలియకపోవచ్చు.
తమ శరీరాన్ని అర్థం చేసుకోవడం, ఏ భాగం ఎలా స్పందిస్తుందో గమనించడం మరియు ఏ స్పర్శ సౌకర్యంగా ఉందో తెలుసుకోవడం వ్యక్తిగత అవగాహనలో భాగం.
***
## స్వీయ అన్వేషణ
స్వీయ అన్వేషణ ద్వారా వ్యక్తి తన శరీరం మరియు ఆనందాన్ని బాగా అర్థం చేసుకోవచ్చు.
ప్రతి శరీరం ఒకేలా స్పందించదు. కొందరికి మృదువైన స్పర్శ నచ్చవచ్చు. మరికొందరికి నిరంతరమైన, కేంద్రీకృతమైన క్లిటోరిస్ ప్రేరణ అవసరమవచ్చు.
లూబ్రికెంట్ ఉపయోగించడం అసౌకర్యాన్ని తగ్గించవచ్చు. సెక్స్ టాయ్స్ కొందరికి తమ శరీర స్పందనను అర్థం చేసుకోవడంలో సహాయపడవచ్చు. వాటిని పరిశుభ్రంగా, సురక్షితంగా మరియు పరస్పర అంగీకారంతో ఉపయోగించాలి.
క్లిటోరిస్ను విస్మరించి కేవలం ప్రవేశం ద్వారానే మహిళ భావప్రాప్తి పొందాలని ఆశించడం వాస్తవికం కాదు. పురుషుడి లైంగిక ఆనందంలో లింగాన్ని పూర్తిగా విస్మరించి కేవలం ఇతర చర్యలతోనే భావప్రాప్తి ఆశించడం ఎలా అసాధ్యమో, మహిళల విషయంలో క్లిటోరిస్ను విస్మరించడం కూడా అలాంటిదే.
***
## ఫోర్ప్లే అనేది అదనపు విషయం కాదు
**(1:43:32)**
సెక్స్ను చాలామంది “అంగస్తంభన, ప్రవేశం, వీర్యస్ఖలనం—అంతే”గా భావిస్తారు. అప్పుడు ఫోర్ప్లే ఒక ఐచ్చిక అంశంలా కనిపిస్తుంది.
కానీ అనేక మహిళలకు ఫోర్ప్లే లైంగిక ఆనందంలో ప్రధాన భాగం.
ముద్దులు, కౌగిలింతలు, శరీరాన్ని తాకడం, మౌఖిక లైంగిక చర్య లేదా చేతి సహాయం—ఇవన్నీ స్వతంత్రంగా ఆనందదాయకమైన అనుభవాలు కావచ్చు. ప్రవేశానికి ముందు మహిళకు భావప్రాప్తి కలగడం కూడా సాధ్యమే.
యువ పురుషులు తమ భాగస్వామి ఆనందం గురించి తెలుసుకోవడానికి ఆసక్తి చూపుతున్నారని అతిథులు చెబుతున్నారు. భాగస్వామి ఆనందాన్ని ప్రాధాన్యంగా చూసే పురుషుడికి కూడా మెరుగైన లైంగిక అనుభవం లభిస్తుంది.
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## శరీర సిద్ధత అవసరం
**(1:44:18)**
యోని ముందు భాగంలో నాడీ ముగింపులు ఎక్కువగా ఉంటాయి. శరీరం పూర్తిగా ఉద్రేకానికి సిద్ధమైనప్పుడు, రక్తప్రసరణ పెరిగి, తేమ మరియు సహజమైన ఉబ్బరం ఏర్పడినప్పుడు ఆ ప్రాంతం మరింత స్పందించవచ్చు.
తగినంత ఫోర్ప్లే లేకుండా కేవలం సాధారణ ప్రవేశం మాత్రమే జరిగితే కొందరికి తగిన ఆనందం కలగకపోవచ్చు.
కొంతమంది మహిళలు దీర్ఘకాలం భావప్రాప్తి చెందినట్లు నటించారు. కానీ తర్వాత తమ శరీరం ఏం కోరుకుంటుందో తెలుసుకున్నప్పుడు, అది అసాధ్యమైన విషయం కాదని అర్థమైంది.
అయితే భావప్రాప్తి రావడం మాత్రమే లైంగిక సంబంధం విజయవంతమైందని అర్థం కాదు. భావప్రాప్తి లేకపోయినా అనుభవం ఆనందదాయకంగా ఉండవచ్చు. ప్రతి సారి భావప్రాప్తి తప్పనిసరి కాదు.
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## క్లిటోరిస్, G-స్పాట్ మరియు శరీర నిర్మాణం
**(1:45:39)**
క్లిటోరిస్ బయట కనిపించే చిన్న భాగం కంటే చాలా పెద్ద నిర్మాణం. దాని అంతర్గత భాగాలు యోని చుట్టూ విస్తరించి ఉంటాయి.
“G-స్పాట్” అనే పదం ఒక ప్రత్యేకమైన బటన్ లేదా మాయా కణం ఉన్నట్లు అనిపించవచ్చు. కానీ దాన్ని ఒక నిర్దిష్ట నిర్మాణంగా కాకుండా, కొంతమందికి ఆనందాన్ని కలిగించే సున్నితమైన ప్రాంతంగా అర్థం చేసుకోవడం మంచిది.
ఆ ప్రాంతం వాస్తవానికి క్లిటోరిస్, యూరేథ్రా మరియు యోని చుట్టుపక్కల నిర్మాణాలతో సంబంధం కలిగి ఉండవచ్చు. అందుకే దీనిని కొందరు **క్లిటో-యూరెథ్రో-వజైనల్ కాంప్లెక్స్** అని వివరిస్తారు.
బయటి క్లిటోరిస్ ప్రేరణతో పాటు పై గోడ వైపు అంతర్గత ప్రేరణ కలిపితే కొందరికి ఎక్కువ ఆనందం కలగవచ్చు. కానీ ప్రతి వ్యక్తి అనుభవం భిన్నంగా ఉంటుంది.
స్త్రీ శరీరంలోకి ఏదైనా చొప్పించే ముందు స్పష్టమైన సమ్మతి, సౌకర్యం, మృదువైన పద్ధతి మరియు తగినంత లూబ్రికేషన్ అవసరం.
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## ప్రవేశం ద్వారా మాత్రమే భావప్రాప్తి అవసరం లేదు
**(1:50:04)**
చాలామంది మహిళలకు కేవలం ప్రవేశం ద్వారా భావప్రాప్తి పొందడం కష్టంగా ఉండవచ్చు. ఒంటరిగా స్వీయ ప్రేరణ లేదా వైబ్రేటర్ సహాయంతో భావప్రాప్తి మరింత సులభంగా ఉండవచ్చు.
కొంతమంది మహిళలు బాత్రూమ్లోని నీటి జెట్ ద్వారా క్లిటోరిస్ ప్రేరణను అనుకోకుండా అనుభవిస్తారు. అప్పుడు తమకు ఇంతకుముందే ఆ అనుభూతి పరిచయం ఉందని గ్రహించవచ్చు.
క్లిటోరిస్ మరియు పురుష లింగం పిండ దశలో ఒకే రకమైన కణజాలం నుంచి అభివృద్ధి చెందుతాయి. అందువల్ల మహిళల ఆనందంలో క్లిటోరిస్కు ఉన్న ప్రాధాన్యాన్ని అర్థం చేసుకోవాలి.
క్లిటోరిస్ను పూర్తిగా విస్మరించి మహిళ భావప్రాప్తి పొందాలని ఆశించడం వాస్తవికం కాదు.
వైబ్రేషన్ లేదా ఇతర పరికరాలు నిరంతరమైన, కేంద్రీకృతమైన ప్రేరణను అందించగలవు. అయితే అవి వ్యక్తిగత ఎంపిక మాత్రమే; ప్రతి ఒక్కరికీ అవసరం ఉండదు.
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## అశ్లీలత మరియు ఎథికల్ పోర్న్
**(1:53:06)**
ఎరోటికా, ఆడియో ఎరోటికా, సాహిత్యం లేదా పోర్న్ కొంతమందికి ఆసక్తి లేదా కల్పనకు మార్గంగా ఉండవచ్చు. అయితే పోర్న్ను లైంగిక విద్యగా భావించడం సురక్షితం కాదు.
పోర్న్ చూస్తున్నప్పుడు కొన్ని ప్రశ్నలు అడగాలి:
- ఇందులో ఉన్న ప్రతి వ్యక్తి వయోజనుడా?
- వారు నిజంగా సమ్మతించారా?
- చిత్రీకరణకు సమ్మతించారా?
- దాన్ని ఆన్లైన్లో ప్రచురించడానికి సమ్మతించారా?
- వారికి సరైన పారితోషికం చెల్లించబడిందా?
- వీడియోలో హింస లేదా అవమానం రొమాంటిక్గా చూపించబడుతున్నదా?
- ఇది నిజమైన లైంగిక సంబంధాలకు సరైన నమూనా కాదని మనకు తెలుసా?
**ఎథికల్ పోర్న్** సాధారణంగా ఇందులో పాల్గొనే వ్యక్తుల సమ్మతి, పారితోషికం, భద్రత మరియు హక్కులను గౌరవించడానికి ప్రయత్నిస్తుంది.
చెల్లింపు ఆధారిత ప్లాట్ఫారమ్లలో రూపొందించబడిన కొన్ని కంటెంట్లలో పాల్గొనే వ్యక్తులు ముందుగానే ఏ చర్యలకు అంగీకరిస్తారో, ఏవాటిని తిరస్కరిస్తారో స్పష్టంగా నమోదు చేస్తారు. షూటింగ్ సమయంలో ఆ హద్దులు ఉల్లంఘించకుండా చూసే విధానాలు ఉంటాయి.
ఒక వ్యక్తి “కండోమ్ లేకుండా నేను చేయను” అని ముందే చెప్పితే, ఆ హద్దును తప్పనిసరిగా గౌరవించాలి.
పోర్న్లో కూడా “కాదు” అనే మాట వినిపించాలి. సమ్మతి లేకపోవడం సాధారణమో, ఆకర్షణీయమో అన్న భావన కలిగించకూడదు.
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## పోర్న్ వాస్తవ జీవితానికి నమూనా కాదు
పోర్న్లో చాలా సార్లు అవాస్తవ శరీరాలు, అతిశయోక్తి పరిమాణాలు, ఎక్కువసేపు కొనసాగడం మరియు హింసాత్మక ప్రవర్తన చూపించబడతాయి.
పిల్లలు చిన్న వయస్సులో పోర్న్కు గురైతే, దానిని నిజమైన సంబంధాల నమూనాగా భావించే ప్రమాదం ఉంది.
పోర్న్పై తల్లిదండ్రులు పిల్లలతో వయస్సుకు తగిన సంభాషణ జరపాలి:
- ఇంటర్నెట్లో కనిపించేది అంతా నిజం కాదు.
- పోర్న్ నటన మరియు నిర్మాణంతో రూపొందించబడుతుంది.
- ప్రేమ, సంభాషణ, సమ్మతి మరియు భద్రతను అది తప్పనిసరిగా చూపించదు.
- వ్యక్తిగత వీడియోలను సేవ్ చేయడం, పంచుకోవడం లేదా అనుమతి లేకుండా పంపడం తప్పు మరియు హానికరం.
ఇంటర్నెట్ ఒక వంటగది కత్తిలాంటిది—దానితో ఆహారం తయారు చేయవచ్చు; అదే సమయంలో ఇతరులకు లేదా మనకే హాని చేయవచ్చు. దాన్ని బాధ్యతగా ఉపయోగించడం నేర్చుకోవాలి.
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## పోర్న్, మోసం మరియు మానవ అక్రమ రవాణా
మానవ అక్రమ రవాణా, లైంగిక దాడి లేదా బలవంతపు చిత్రీకరణను “సెక్స్” అని పిలవకూడదు. సమ్మతి లేని చర్యలు లైంగిక దాడి లేదా దోపిడీ, కానీ సెక్స్ కాదు.
ఒక వయోజనుడు స్వచ్ఛందంగా, తన నిర్ణయంతో కంటెంట్లో పాల్గొనడం మరియు ఒక మైనర్ను లేదా బలవంతంగా తీసుకురాబడిన వ్యక్తిని చిత్రీకరించడం ఒకటే కాదు.
పదజాలంలో స్పష్టత అవసరం. “రేప్”ను సెక్స్ అని పిలవడం తప్పు. “ట్రాఫికింగ్”ను ఎవరూ సమర్థించరు.
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## నోఫ్యాప్పై సమతుల్య దృష్టి
నోఫ్యాప్ ఉద్యమం మొదట పోర్న్కు బానిసత్వాన్ని తగ్గించడంలో కొంతమందికి సహాయపడే ఉద్దేశంతో ప్రారంభమై ఉండవచ్చు. కానీ తరువాత అది హస్తప్రయోగం పూర్తిగా తప్పు, సెక్స్ కూడా తప్పు అనే భావాలుగా మారింది.
కొంతమంది ప్రభావశీలులు హస్తప్రయోగం మానేస్తే జీవితంలో తప్పనిసరిగా విజయం వస్తుందని ప్రచారం చేశారు. దాంతో యువకులు అపరాధ భావన, భయం మరియు స్వీయనిందకు గురయ్యారు.
హస్తప్రయోగం, పోర్న్ వినియోగం, బలవంతపు లైంగిక అలవాటు మరియు బ్రహ్మచర్యం—ఇవన్నీ ఒకటే విషయాలుగా కలపకూడదు.
వైద్యపరంగా, హస్తప్రయోగం స్వయంగా హానికరమని లేదా వ్యక్తిని జీవితంలో విఫలుడిగా మారుస్తుందని బలమైన ఆధారం లేదు. సమస్యగా పరిగణించాల్సింది అది నియంత్రణలో లేకుండా చదువు, పని, నిద్ర, సంబంధాలు లేదా మానసిక ఆరోగ్యాన్ని ప్రభావితం చేసినప్పుడు.
***
## పాలియామరీ మరియు ఓపెన్ రిలేషన్షిప్లు
**(2:06:20)**
ఏకపత్నీవ్రతం ఒక రకమైన సంబంధ నిర్మాణం మాత్రమే. పాలియామరీ లేదా పరస్పర సమ్మతితో కూడిన బహుళ సంబంధాలు కూడా కొన్ని వ్యక్తులు ఎంచుకుంటారు.
పాలియామరీ అనేది మోసానికి సమర్థన కాదు. అందులో పాల్గొనే ప్రతి వ్యక్తికి విషయం తెలిసి ఉండాలి. పారదర్శకత, స్వచ్ఛంద సమ్మతి, హద్దులు మరియు భద్రత తప్పనిసరి.
ప్రతిఒక్కరికీ ఇది సరిపోదు. కొందరు ఏకపత్నీవ్రతంలోనే సంతోషంగా ఉంటారు. మరికొందరు వేరే సంబంధ నిర్మాణాన్ని ఎంచుకోవచ్చు.
ఒక జంటలో ఒకరికి పాలియామరీ కావాలి, మరొకరికి ఏకపత్నీవ్రత కావాలంటే, ఇద్దరూ నిజాయితీగా మాట్లాడాలి. ఒకరిని మరొకరు ఒత్తిడి చేయకూడదు.
పరిగణించాల్సిన విషయాలు:
- అందరి సమ్మతి ఉందా?
- హద్దులు ఏమిటి?
- అసూయను ఎలా ఎదుర్కోవాలి?
- సమయం మరియు శ్రద్ధను ఎలా పంచుకోవాలి?
- ఆర్థిక బాధ్యతలు ఏమిటి?
- లైంగిక ఆరోగ్యం, పరీక్షలు మరియు రక్షణ ఎలా నిర్వహించాలి?
- ఎవరికైనా ఎప్పుడైనా ఆ సంబంధం నుంచి బయటకు రావాలనిపిస్తే ఎలా?
పాలియామరీ ఒకే విధమైన వ్యవస్థ కాదు. ప్రతి జంట లేదా సమూహం తమ స్వంత నియమాలను ఏర్పరచుకోవచ్చు. అయితే గౌరవం, పారదర్శకత మరియు సమ్మతి లేకుండా అది నైతికమైన సంబంధం కాదు.
***
## చివరి సందేశం
**(2:12:23)**
మంచి సంభాషణలు, మంచి లైంగిక అనుభవాల్లాగే, అనేక దిశల్లో సాగవచ్చు.
టీనేజ్ అమ్మాయిలకు నేను చెప్పాలనుకునే ముఖ్యమైన విషయం—“కాదు” అని చెప్పడం నేర్చుకోండి. అది కేవలం మంచం విషయంలో కాదు; జీవితంలోని ప్రతి సందర్భంలో.
ముఖ్యంగా మిలీనియల్ తరానికి తరచూ ఇలా నేర్పించారు:
- ఎక్కువగా నవ్వకండి.
- కాళ్లు విడదీయకుండా కూర్చోండి.
- ప్రశ్నించకండి.
- ఎదురు చెప్పకండి.
- ఎప్పుడూ విధేయంగా, సులభంగా వంగిపోయేలా ఉండండి.
- అందరినీ సంతోషపెట్టండి.
ఈ conditioningను మనం క్రమంగా తిరస్కరించాలి.
మిమ్మల్ని మీరు ఎంచుకోండి. “కాదు” అని చెప్పండి. మీ వ్యక్తిత్వాన్ని చిన్నదిగా చేసుకోకండి. మీకు మీ స్వంత అభిప్రాయాలు, కోరికలు మరియు హద్దులు కలిగి ఉండే హక్కు ఉంది.
నవ్వండి, ఆనందించండి, మీకు నచ్చిన జీవితం గడపండి, ఆర్థిక స్వాతంత్ర్యం సాధించండి. మీ స్వేచ్ఛ మరియు నిర్ణయాధికారం ముఖ్యమైనవి.
**(2:12:23)**
ఈ చర్చ చాలామందికి ఉపయోగకరమైన సమాచారాన్ని అందించిందని నేను భావిస్తున్నాను. మనకు తెలుసని కూడా తెలియని విషయాలు, తెలుసుకోవాల్సిన అవసరం ఉన్న విషయాలు ఎన్నో ఉంటాయి. ఈ అంశంలో ఇంకా చాలా విషయాలను అర్థం చేసుకోవాలి, పరిశీలించాలి.
ఇద్దరికీ ముగింపు సందేశం చెప్పమని అడగాలనుకుంటున్నాను. ముందుగా లీజాను అడుగుతాను: టీనేజ్ అమ్మాయిగా ఉన్నప్పుడు ఎవరో మీకు చెప్పి ఉండాలని మీరు కోరుకునే ఒక విషయం ఏమిటి?
**లీజా:** “కాదు” అని చెప్పడం నేర్చుకోండి—అది కేవలం లైంగిక సంబంధాల్లోనే కాదు, జీవితంలోని ప్రతి సందర్భంలోనూ.
బహుశా జనరేషన్ Z మరియు అంతకంటే చిన్న తరాలకు ఈ విషయంపై మునుపటి తరాల కంటే మెరుగైన అవగాహన ఉండవచ్చు.
కానీ మిలీనియల్ తరానికి ఎప్పుడూ తమను తాము చిన్నచేసుకోవాలని నేర్పించారు:
- చాలా గట్టిగా నవ్వకండి.
- కాళ్లు విడదీయకుండా కూర్చోండి.
- ఎదురు చెప్పకండి.
- ప్రశ్నించకండి.
- అతి విధేయంగా, అందరికి నచ్చేలా ఉండండి.
- ఎప్పుడూ నవ్వుతూ ఉండండి.
ఈ సామాజిక శిక్షణను తిరస్కరించడంలో మనం కొంత మెరుగుపడ్డాం.
అయినా మళ్లీ గుర్తు చేసుకోవడం మంచిదే:
- మిమ్మల్ని మీరు ఎంచుకోండి.
- “కాదు” అని చెప్పండి.
- మీ వ్యక్తిత్వాన్ని చిన్నదిగా చేసుకోకండి.
- మీ నిర్ణయాధికారం ఉంది; దానికి విలువ ఉంది.
- మీకు స్వంత అభిప్రాయాలు, ఇష్టాలు మరియు హద్దులు ఉండవచ్చు.
- మీరు నవ్వవచ్చు.
- మీరు ఆనందించాలి.
- మీరు మీ స్వంత డబ్బు సంపాదించాలి.
సమాజం మిమ్మల్ని చేయకుండా ఆపడానికి ప్రయత్నించే ఈ పనులను చేయాలని మీరు కోరుకుంటే, వాటిని చేయడానికి మీకు పూర్తి హక్కు ఉంది.
***
## హార్మోన్ల మార్పులు, లైంగిక కోరిక
**(2:13:30)**
ఒక ఊహాత్మక ప్రశ్న: నలభైల చివరలో ఉన్న ఒక మహిళ హార్మోన్ల మార్పులను ఎదుర్కొంటోంది. ఆమె లైంగిక కోరిక తాను కోరుకున్న స్థాయిలో లేదు. వంటగదిలో సులభంగా తయారుచేసుకునే ఏదైనా పానీయం తాగితే కోరిక వెంటనే పెరుగుతుందా?
**సమాధానం:** లేదు. ఒక్కసారిగా మిమ్మల్ని “మెరుగైన ప్రేమికురాలిగా” మార్చే పానీయం లేదా ఆహారం ఏదీ లేదు.
మహిళలకు పురుషుల కోసం ప్రసిద్ధి చెందిన “బ్లూ పిల్” లాంటి వెంటనే పనిచేసే పరిష్కారం లేదు. ఒక మాత్ర తీసుకున్న వెంటనే శరీరాన్ని లైంగికంగా సిద్ధం చేసే బటన్ మన వద్ద లేదు.
లైంగిక కోరికలో మనస్సు ముఖ్యమైన పాత్ర పోషిస్తుంది. కొన్నిసార్లు ఆనందానికి సంబంధించిన ఆలోచన మనసులోకి వచ్చిన వెంటనే అపరాధ భావన దాన్ని అణచివేస్తుంది.
అందువల్ల మొదట చేయాల్సింది—ఆ ఆలోచన వచ్చినందుకు మిమ్మల్ని మీరు నిందించుకోకపోవడం.
మీరు వెంటనే ఏ చర్య తీసుకోవాలనుకోకపోయినా, ఆ ఆలోచనను సహజంగా గమనించండి. మనసు మరియు శరీరం ఆనందానికి అలవాటు పడేలా, అపరాధ భావన లేకుండా దాన్ని అంగీకరించండి.
అయితే లైంగిక కోరికలో నిరంతరమైన లేదా బాధ కలిగించే మార్పులు ఉంటే, హార్మోన్లు, మందులు, నిద్ర, ఒత్తిడి లేదా మెనోపాజ్ వంటి కారణాలను అంచనా వేయడానికి గైనకాలజిస్ట్ను సంప్రదించడం మంచిది.
***
## ముగింపు
**(2:14:36)**
ఈరోజు మాతో ఇంత సమయం గడిపినందుకు మీ ఇద్దరికీ ధన్యవాదాలు. ఈ కార్యక్రమం ఉద్దేశించిన బహిరంగత, నిజాయితీ మరియు సున్నితమైన సంభాషణను ఈరోజు మనం నిజంగా తీసుకురాగలిగామని అనిపిస్తోంది.
మమ్మల్ని ఆహ్వానించినందుకు ధన్యవాదాలు. ఈ అంశాన్ని చర్చించే అవకాశం ఇచ్చినందుకు మేము సంతోషిస్తున్నాం.
సెక్స్, సన్నిహితత్వం మరియు లైంగిక ఆనందం గురించి మాట్లాడటం కష్టంగా ఉండవచ్చు. ఇవి ఎల్లప్పుడూ సులభమైన సంభాషణలు కావు.
పునరుత్పత్తి అధ్యాయాన్ని పాఠశాలలో పూర్తిగా దాటేసిన, కుటుంబాల్లో ఈ విషయం గురించి మాట్లాడకుండా పిల్లలను మౌనంగా ఉంచిన తరానికి ఇలాంటి సంభాషణలు చాలా ముఖ్యమైనవి.
మనం ఎక్కువగా బహిరంగంగా మాట్లాడే కొద్దీ, మన శరీరాలను మరియు కోరికలను బాగా అర్థం చేసుకుంటాం. దాంతో సిగ్గు, అపరాధ భావన తగ్గుతాయి.
ఇంతకాలం తప్పుగా అర్థం చేసుకున్న విషయంపై స్పష్టత, నిజాయితీ మరియు శాస్త్రీయ దృక్పథాన్ని అందించిన ఇద్దరికీ ప్రత్యేక ధన్యవాదాలు.
ఈ ఎపిసోడ్ వల్ల మీకు మీరే అర్థం చేసుకున్నట్లు అనిపించి ఉంటే, కొత్త సమాచారం లభించి ఉంటే లేదా మీ గురించి కొంచెం సౌకర్యంగా అనిపించి ఉంటే, కార్యక్రమాన్ని సబ్స్క్రైబ్ చేయండి.
తదుపరి ఎపిసోడ్ వరకు:
**సమాచారంతో ఉండండి, ఆరోగ్యంగా ఉండండి.**
## ప్రధాన సందేశం
- “కాదు” అని చెప్పే హక్కు లైంగిక సంబంధాల్లోనే కాదు, జీవితంలోని ప్రతి విషయంలోనూ ఉంది.
- మహిళలు తమ అభిప్రాయాలు, ఇష్టాలు, హద్దులు మరియు నిర్ణయాలను చిన్నచేసుకోకూడదు.
- హార్మోన్ల మార్పుల సమయంలో ఒక్క పానీయం లేదా తక్షణ పరిష్కారం ఉండదు.
- లైంగిక కోరికలో మనస్సు, శరీరం, ఆరోగ్యం, ఒత్తిడి మరియు సంబంధాలన్నీ ప్రభావం చూపుతాయి.
- సిగ్గు లేకుండా శరీరం మరియు లైంగిక ఆరోగ్యం గురించి మాట్లాడటం అవగాహనను పెంచుతుంది.
- సమస్యాత్మకంగా లేదా బాధాకరంగా అనిపించే లైంగిక ఆరోగ్య మార్పులకు వైద్య నిపుణుడిని సంప్రదించాలి.
Transcript:
(00:02) I'll feel myself blushing through parts of this conversation because these are not conversations I've typically had in this kind of setting. >> I think women aren't allowed to want sex and they're not allowed to deny sex either, right? I think good sex is like one of the most amazing experiences life has to offer if I'm honest. Be sacred.
(00:18) [music] >> Sex is like fish. Even when it's bad, it's good. I was like, >> no. Most people think the clit is just the clit. >> It's don't even know what it is or where it is. And a lot of times you're just lying there waiting [music] for it to be done to you and we're not taught how to participate.
(00:36) Sexual organs if they're closer to each other in [music] size positions were created actually help synchronize the sizes. >> Overemphasis on this small amount of tissue the highman as if it's proof of virginity is also completely unscientific. >> Consistency of a wet face tissue. It is that useless. >> The weight of the world lies on this mother your father your ta your everybody's honor is sitting over there.
(00:57) Yeah, please look [laughter] at the body. Honestly, I do not want my daughter growing up thinking that somebody else owns her. No, orgasm seems so elusive. Often faked it. My good luck if if it happens. [laughter] >> I mean, I used a toy for the first time at 27 and it blew my mind 30 seconds because we think sex is erection, penetration, ejaculation, and it ends when he comes.
(01:18) I think a lot of men also just don't focus on women's pleasure enough. But these sort of films which have an element of male toxicity, they do very well. Why is that? I always say that every girl should date a toxic guy to understand that that's not what you want, right? There have been sex doctors [music] since forever.
(01:34) Lisa and I talk about pleasure. People who don't know what they're talking about need to step the hell back. [music] All around the world as I speak, people are having sex and not a lot of them are trying to have babies. Humans are the only species capable of consciously creating and enjoying mutual pleasure. And I personally feel that sexual chemistry is key to a stable marriage.
(02:08) But sexual pleasure and intimacy, we barely talk about it. And I'll be honest, even I find it awkward. It feels exposing and vulnerable and perhaps a little too real. Growing up, we were never taught any of this. Not at home, definitely not in school. And what I came across was literature, movies that were all told through a male lens.
(02:36) The very act of sex, the language reveals a bias. For instance, why is it called penetration and not envelopment? Why is female pleasure treated like an optional add-on? And here's a fact. Nearly 60% of women globally say that they have difficulty talking about their sexual needs. And more than half say that they were never even taught about their pleasure or anatomy at all.
(03:01) Another study says that women are twice as likely to experience sexual dissatisfaction simply because their partners don't understand their bodies. So the silence is not cultural, it's educational, it's generational, and sometimes it's even medical, which is exactly why today's episode exists, to make this conversation normal, healthy, respectful, and deeply human.
(03:24) Hello and welcome to All About Her, a space where we have honest and meaningful conversations about women's health, wellness, happiness, and self-care. And today we're exploring sexual pleasure and intimacy. Our first guest is someone whose work has reshaped the way we understand sensuality, intimacy, and feminine energy, blending mythology, ancient wisdom, and modern relationship dynamics.
(03:47) She's a mythologist, storyteller, intimacy educator, and an authority on love, desire, and relationships through a cultural as well as a psychological lens. She's also the author of influential books like the art of seduction and speak easy a field guide to love longing and intimacy. Both of books are here and I'm very very honored to welcome Dr. Simma Anand.
(04:08) >> Thank you so much. Thank you for having me so thank you very much for being here. Our next guest who joins her uh has become one of the most influential voices in India when it comes to sexual well-being to consent to pleasure equality and honest conversations around bodies and relationships.
(04:26) She began as a journalist and content creator, but over time she's turned into a full-fledged educator and activist for sex education and sexual health. She's the author of the sex book, also on my table. I think it's a first of its kind. It's a comprehensive, inclusive, scientifically accurate, judgment-free guide to sex.
(04:45) Please welcome Lisa Mandas. >> Thank you, SA. And it's so nice to be with you, Zimma. >> Absolutely. Always. I know you guys have uh been together virtually. Um, you've also perhaps met a long time ago. It's been a while. >> It's been like over the last >> five, seven years. We've met several times. >> And we also have regular coffees on online together.
(05:05) >> Nice. How nice. I've watched some of your interviews together. I've read not cover to cover, but I've read through um all the books. And I just want to say that I think it's wonderful that this literature exists for people who have questions, who might even simple questions just about your anatomy, about your body.
(05:23) um you started off um Lisa for example in your book just explaining some of the basics and then of course there's lots of wonderfully nuanced questions that people have for example in your book Sema that you've addressed um so I would firstly encourage everyone to look at these books purchase them go through them and even then if you have questions uh it's nice to keep having conversations I tried to structure this conversation with warm-up questions and then my team told me that you know audience has no patience and very very short attention spans and so I should
(05:54) get right to the meat of the discussion and I thought okay then so there's no warm-up questions we're going to get to the meat of it and I thought maybe that's why there's so few women who perhaps actually enjoy orgasms >> no foreplay >> there's no foreplay there's no warming up um so unfortunately I cannot warm you up at all we're going to jump into it >> we're [laughter] warm >> yeah I think we've also of course we met off camera and we chatted a bit but one of the questions that I had which I was talking about in the introduction was
(06:22) the whole language of sex as well is from a sort of male perspective. Why for example and ask I'll start with you Simma if I may. Um why is it called penetration? Why is it not called envelopment? Because I guess historically it's always been um a man's prerogative to have sex or to enjoy sex. A woman's pleasure has been invisible always.
(06:43) So this whole idea that you know you look at the penis and it's whether the penis is hard or soft. How long is it? How thick is it? How long is it going to last? It's all about the focus on that organ. The vagina has just left us something that receives. It's passive. It's over there. You put in the pleasure is his. Hers is only supposed to be pleasure if she watches him have pleasure.
(07:07) I mean the stories that we tell unfortunately that's just how we that's how we focus. I always say that the stories we tell define our identity. They they establish who we are. >> Yes. >> The words that we use actually establish our actions. They establish our culture. >> Yeah. >> And we have we've stuck to a very very male vocabulary.
(07:27) We haven't said what the vagina does when you're actually I mean all you do is penetrate and then what does the vagina do? It kind of gets warm and it gets wet and then the blood comes in and then it engorges and it it kind of, you know, almost infolds the organ, the male organ, and it does all of these amazing things.
(07:48) It draws you in. >> We're not talking about that. We're not talking about the fact of what really gives you that pleasure. >> I mean, not enough of us are talking about it. You two are talking about it. >> We we women's women's agency has just been left out. It's it's always um presented as if sex is something that happens to women.
(08:05) >> They must lie back and take it as opposed to being active agents. I think women aren't allowed to want sex and they're not allowed to deny sex either, right? Marital rape is still legal and yet premarital consensual sex is frowned upon. You're just supposed to be a passive spectacle in this thing that's happening to you.
(08:23) And I feel like the word envelopment suggests agency. >> Yeah. >> And women aren't supposed to have agency. You're not going to believe this, but I just did a podcast with this guy and he had my book on the table and he was like, he was a very nice guy, don't get me wrong, but he said and with a very very large following and he said, "So, you have a whole section on pain during sex is a lot of women get a lot of pain during sex.
(08:51) Um, and it's never really considered." And so, we needed to check what are the different things that could cause the pain and it's not normal. And he's like aa like no you actually don't know that this can this happens and you are at that age where you're now relationship age. >> Yes. And I mean people even think that it's okay like it's women's lot in life to tolerate pain during sex during like very preventable pain is just considered like >> it's your duty now you're a woman like >> women themselves also feel like it's >> but I mean because they're conditioned a
(09:24) little bit not a little bit a lot >> a lot >> to feel like they're meant to just >> and we've had some of those conversations in fact on this podcast about menstruation and about um even brain health and things when it's not normal. you should actually be talking about this and seeking some help and there are solutions also for things um and people are not even aware.
(09:43) So I wanted to ask you Lisa what then is good sex from the point of view of a woman? For me personally, I think good [music] sex is sex that makes me feel understood and seen and accepted and and you know, it's not just a physical act, right? I think so often when people talk of sex, they think of it as a purely physical thing, but I think our emotional and physical um sort of being is is not disjointed in that way.
(10:10) And so to feel seen both, you're naked, right? I mean, this is as vulnerable as you can be with someone. Hopefully, they're being extremely attentive to your pleasure. you're feeling loved and celebrated in this, you know, primal state of nakedness. But also psychologically, I think it's such a powerful way of connecting with another human being.
(10:28) Is there anything that allows two people to connect more deeply? I I think good sex is like one of the most amazing experiences life has to offer if I'm honest. I mean, it's why I do what I do because I love sex. I think good sex is just >> like one of life's greatest gifts. And so at its best, I think sex is two people get seeing each other in this way where there's no mask at all and you're almost um you know, it's it's almost like a spiritual experience for two people to connect in that way.
(10:58) Your bodies are becoming one. >> It's crazy like someone's inside you when you think about it. >> Fully absorbed that what you said. I'm fully taken. [laughter] I believe you. >> Um but I think people kind of it's just sex. It's this thing we do on Saturday night with the lights off. I think people are so need so much convincing of the significance of sex.
(11:16) It is not just sex, you know. Um it's sex. It's like it's should be sacred. And so I wish that people thought of it as sex is pleasure is serious. You know, it's fun, but it's also serious. And it's [laughter] there's a >> it needs to be taken serious. So somebody said to me at a conversation, "No, no, Sema, >> sex is like fish.
(11:37) Even when it's bad, it's good." And I was like, >> "No, fish can make you [laughter] ill." >> Absolutely. Bad fish is terrible. Bad sex. No, definitely. So, Vatzan, the author of the Kamsutra, says that if it's not really pleasurable, what's the point of having sex? And so, so much of it, so much of the Kamsutra was actually written, including the um chapter on positions.
(12:00) The positions are not just random thrasharounds. No, >> it was that the very first thing to I mean I agree totally with Lisa that my idea of good sex is where you come away feeling you connected you you became a little bit closer. >> Yes, >> you connected a little bit better. But um Ven says that if sex is going to be pleasurable, there are a lot of things that go into it.
(12:23) But the very first thing is that your um sexual organs if they're closer to each other in size because if the woman is too large and the man is too small, there's no friction, there will be less pleasure. If she's too tight, he's too big, there's going to be pain. So the closer they are in size, but nobody ever came together saying, "But could you please send me your measurements first?" No.
(12:47) >> And so the positions were created to actually help synchronize the sizes. So if the woman is too big and the man is much much smaller, he recommends certain types of positions where she's on her side, where her thighs are one on top of the other and that narrows her down a little bit and so on.
(13:05) So this was very carefully thought out. 2,000 years ago they were talking about this. >> So there are of course because people come in different shapes and sizes. So there is a position for you irrespective of how you are shaped according to each other and also in your book you've talked about different energies associated [clears throat] with different positions and sometimes then >> you may not be in the mood or you may think that you're having um a problem with your libido but perhaps it's an energy thing and you might want to try
(13:34) another position. >> Yeah. You know, it's unbelievable that a lot of people think of like Lisa was saying, sex is just sex. It's just two physical bodies or two organs coming together. It's so much more than that. So, for instance, if um in a very typical traditional um sort of setting where the man is going to be on top, you have to garner a certain amount of energy to be on top.
(13:59) You cannot just get up there and then say I'm feeling a bit you know every position comes with its own energies and I found which I put a couple of these questions in the new book I spoke to two young queer male sex workers last year and they said 70% of their clients are straight married men straight married men who come to them because they're like we don't have the energy >> or the the performance women's levels that are required to be on top and be in charge.
(14:33) We want to give up that idea of being in charge. So, they're not even sex life at home is dead because they don't want to be on top, but if they're underneath, they'll be judged for that, >> right? >> They're not even going to female sex workers. They're now going to male sex workers because they feel there's less pressure and there's less judgment, >> right? >> And we are not letting people even admit that there is that there is an energy.
(14:55) Forget energy. Let's use the word emotion. It's easier. Men still believe that they can have sex without emotion. Emotion is not just desire, pleasure, love. >> Yes. >> Anger, stress, >> yes. >> Feeling judged, all of those are emotions. >> Yes. >> People go through that. >> Yes. >> And we we don't we don't acknowledge it enough.
(15:16) >> Yeah. It's so true. There's so much um uh to learn from that. You know in fact when you were talking about the uh different positions I just wanted to ask and people can of course read the book and find out for themselves. So for example if you feel that the man is not big enough what is the position that would be >> ideally um what they say is that the thing to do is then to narrow your um the vaginal canal a little bit.
(15:42) So positions where the woman or the person receiving the person with the vagina is lying on her side, her thighs are one on top of the other and that kind of narrows you down, >> right? >> Then there are other positions where literally you would um if you know the length of the person is so this is in case the girth is less.
(16:01) >> If they're shorter in length then there are certain other positions that the kamsutra recommends. So there is all sorts of options given for how to actually reach pleasure because the point is not to get the two sexual organs to meet it's about generating pleasure >> right >> and I find that like even for instance um the clitoris now most people think the clit is just the clit it's it's >> people don't even know what it is or where it is >> that's [laughter] true absolutely >> but the ones who do it's like huh that
(16:36) is the organ which is going to make the woman feel excitement. Yeah, let's go for it. [music] Everybody likes it touch differently. >> When you're going through, let's call it penetration for the time being. Um, you're actually missing >> development. What is this word? >> What is this sudden? Oh god, a [laughter] new word.
(16:53) Um, so you know this whole idea that you would because I also talk about how you wore different pieces of jewelry to, you know, so basically where you're lying down. It's a position called the split. So, you're lying down on your back as the vagina owner. Your one foot will be up on the man's shoulder and the other one or across the shoulder, the other one on his forehead.
(17:15) >> Your foot is on his forehead. And the idea of this or even the idea of putting your foot up and down, you're in that position that helps you to do little micro adjustments. That's bringing your clitoris into contact. >> Yeah, >> that's helping. But when you're actually in the split, your clitoris is in contact with the thrusting motion that's happening and it changes how much pleasure you are likely to feel.
(17:39) So there are all these little tiny adjustments to the the the old missionary position, >> right? which can actually make the woman participate because as we know and Lisa will also confirm this that you know when the woman is underneath a lot of times you're just lying there waiting for it to be done to you and a lot of the we're not taught how to participate.
(18:00) >> Right. >> Right. You're just the receiver. >> Right. >> The idea is to is to participate so that you can be part of that pleasure. >> Yeah. Totally. And to to ensure some amount of clitoreral stimulation during penetration makes penetration infinitely more pleasurable for women. >> Absolutely. >> So when you're on top, you end up having a bit more control and can use, you know, friction against the upper abdomen of the male partner.
(18:24) >> But you can also use a vibrator. >> But I feel like we're getting ahead of ourselves. >> Um even though our audience may have um issues with patients and attention spans, I feel like um I want to warm up till we get there. And there's certain conversations that I would like to have before we get um to that.
(18:41) Also, I feel like I myself get a little red in the face and I'll feel myself blushing through parts of this conversation because these are not conversations um I've typically had in this kind of setting. >> I have to also tell you that we have got so used to talking about it. We don't realize [laughter] >> we don't realize how >> and um I mean my cheeks might be reflecting off my my shirt, but I feel like um why it's not I mean of like of course having conversations I don't know of course having conversations about sex awkward and difficult. Why am I saying
(19:13) of course like why is there that sense of uh this is a subject I don't really know how to express myself. Should I be talking about this? There's an element of shame of course. Um, why is that? >> It's like a massive colonial inheritance. We inherited 18th century Victorian morality both legally and socially and especially English-sp speakaking Indians inherited that big time, right? It's not even pre the British.
(19:37) >> I mean, we have the Kamasutra and Kajaru. >> Yeah. >> Someone came and told us all of that was shameful. I think sexual repression was a tool of colonial rule globally whether in India, Africa, everywhere. They tried to civilize the savages. Um, and I mean we still have these, you know, legal codes.
(19:55) Marital rape being legal is a British era law. Homosexuality being a crime was a British era law. Section 377 only got repealed in 2018. Can you imagine like that is crazy. And I think we somehow think that shame, our culture upholds shame and sexual openness is a western thing. But actually sexual openness is a very Indian thing and the shame was the western import.
(20:17) So I think that um we do ourselves a service to stop thinking of like being squeamish about sex as a duty to our culture you know like I don't know there's some idea of like good Indian people and Indian >> and even though we have the biggest population in the world >> yes and obviously that >> is a result of something that didn't happen through sex >> no of course not [laughter] >> right I was taking it very literally then I was saying of course not but the idea of um this sanscari woman.
(20:49) Were we born with desire and has that been [clears throat] conditioned out of us? Are we born like I feel like >> it's out of us >> just private and public. there's a dissonance between our private and public >> but like you know like I I feel and again there's a few examples that that say you know you're incorrect but I feel like every child is born good and kind and then I can see already when they're becoming older we ourselves make them a little harder to poverty to animals to like you know they just become their
(21:15) skin becomes tougher but I think they're not they're born kind so are we born with desire and then it's conditioned out of us >> absolutely and totally yes so if you think about let's say our physical body. Um there are different parts of your physical body which have the most incredibly sensitive nerve endings and the amount of pleasure that generates just by the touch the simplest little touch that was not something that was imported from the outside world from the surrounding world. That was in us.
(21:47) You know, most little girls will start by um squeezing their legs in order to feel pleasure even before they know what they're doing. >> Yeah. >> And it becomes such a habit because it is so pleasurable. You know, you get that >> it's a self soothing behavior. It's not even sexual when you're right. >> But it gives you that little bit of pleasure and you enjoy it and then like you said, it's self soothing behavior and it comes with that.
(22:14) But I also want to say sorry before um I give the mic to you that you know when we think about the Kamsutra being written >> 300 and something AD he says Vatan says that he didn't write anything new he's taken stuff from a thousand years before and copied and pasted the bits that he likes. So we are talking about the the fact that pleasure was not just there but pleasure had been refined to this incredible degree of elegance and desire that kind of um denoted how civilized you were >> right >> how much you understood about it. 300
(22:51) and something AD when the the Kamsutra is being written at the same time 325 AD CE um the first ecumenical council of the Catholic Church is set up and they immediately start by saying the body is sinful pleasure is bad this is you should feel guilty for this so the two things the two ideas have grown up simultaneously and we're in this twilight zone in between >> and we've all sort followed this idea of guilt, sin, >> ugly, bad >> because that's been used to control.
(23:27) I mean, it's a control mechanism, right? The more you put, the more taboo, the more stigma you put, the more you can control people. We're still stuck in that um twilight zone because today both you and I when we talk about pleasure we are the ones being told that this is ancari because of course the British came and wrote the no a lot of people do but there's a there's a determination to say >> even the people who love what we're talking about I still get people writing little DMs saying but I feel so guilty I
(23:59) feel like I'm doing a bad thing >> is there a text that says masturbation is okay because they're looking for >> validation. >> Validation, reassurance. Yeah. From the ancient texts to say, is this all right? >> Is being gay. Okay. I mean, the the amount of insecurities that we've >> I mean, I think it's so unfortunate that for so many young people, your own parents, for example, might be >> conveying that type of messaging to you, right? If someone as important a figure in your life as your own mom or dad is
(24:29) telling you things like sex is shameful or being gay is unacceptable. I will throw you out of the house if you whatever you know that's the unfortunate love is very conditional in most Indian households and maybe in other parts of the world also I don't mean to like focus just on in in much of this part of the in various parts of the world love is conditional actually if we're honest our families are um there's expectation that comes with any um anything that provides a sense of belonging your country or family whatever it is and so
(24:58) I think there's a >> um friction for most people between who they've been told they ought to be and who they really are, >> right? >> You know, if you're attracted to somebody of the same sex and that's unacceptable in your in some countries, not even legal, how difficult it is to go on that journey, right? Even though all your feeling is perfectly natural, >> but imagine if the the the law is telling you it's unacceptable is what an unfair battle to have to fight. Right.
(25:26) >> Right. I want to ask you if you because you know both of you work also in this space. Do you feel like there is a generational gap? Do you feel like we are unlearning some of that shame or we just hiding it better? Like >> I think that I'm very optimistic. I think that young Indians are privately much more open-minded than they publicly are able to proclaim.
(25:48) >> I think lots of women might want to, for example, share our content or say something about how they had their first orgasm and it was life-changing, but they worry their father-in-law, brother, or someone someone will see. But the sentiment is there, you know. Yeah, >> I think there's like this very strong recognition of the fact that we'd benefit from an erosion of silence and shame and stigma around the topic that sex is a rightsbased thing.
(26:13) You know, we deserve agency. We deserve access to resources around even our safety or contraception [music] or understanding of consent or like all of it. Yes. >> Should be open >> and ideally schools should do something about it. I'm getting the sense from people that privately they are so on board.
(26:30) publicly they still have consequences to admitting how on board they are. So they tone it down a bit. >> So the consequences are from schooliety, >> family, society, other you know, >> right? I mean, I only realize this actually in all its entirety when I had an a message from this woman who said, >> um, and I generally don't look at my DMs because there are just so many to go through that it's not always possible, but it happened to pop up.
(26:57) >> And she said, uh, I know you probably won't even realize this, but I've had to unfollow you. I watch everything that you do. I share it. I but I cannot officially follow you or like it because some guy who she knew noticed that she was following me and started getting really inappropriate with her and said oh you're that kind of girl you know that kind so there are so many people and not just women >> sure guys as well >> people will create fake accounts to follow pages like ours because they don't want you know
(27:29) >> well I mean at least they're getting the information >> at least they're getting the information they have to worry that who is going to know that I follow a sex education Yes. Um actually in in the dedication of your book also you've dedicated to your five children. Um and you've said that it's to make the world a better place uh for them.
(27:49) Um which makes me ask you also the the fact that you must have had some push back. >> Yeah. Now you have to remember that when I start talking about this which is a very long time ago um I there was nobody else really talking about this subject about pleasure. People have talked about sex. There have been sex doctors since forever. >> Yeah.
(28:08) >> Lisa and I talk about pleasure which is hugely different. >> And when I start talking about that I faced so much crap you would not believe. >> I'm talking about from best friends. I lost best friends. >> Really >> best friends. I lost um I mean I had people >> who were supposed to be such close friends of mine.
(28:28) They were like surrogate moms to my kids >> who put out the um idea that I was a call girl that oh nobody should talk to her. I mean the things that my kids have had to hear, not just me. >> Um there's been a lot of battles. There's been a lot of fights. And I always say that the first time I realized that these stories were missing was because I've always worked with women's narratives.
(28:51) always worked with her stories impact women. I had Tarini, my youngest, uh she's now 27 and I remember sitting up one night breastfeeding her and thinking in all the stories that we tell about that create our identity. We never tell stories of a woman's right to her own body. Her body belongs to somebody else. For her pleasure, she needs somebody else's permission.
(29:15) I do not want my daughter growing up thinking that somebody else owns her. >> Like, no. And that's when I actually started my work. I started going out to look for the stories that we'd silence because equally it's not just stories that we tell, it's the stories that we silence, >> right? >> And so the kids have actually been incredible.
(29:35) They have been my biggest support like through thick and thin. Even at the time I'm married to this very typical half Punjabi, half Cindi man from Delhi who's now 73 years old. So very typical of that time who's now fine with it. But I went through [laughter] Yeah. fine. ever. He's got to be. He's had to be. He has no choice. >> He has no choice.
(29:55) [laughter] >> That's so And we've just um it was our 40th anniversary a couple of days ago. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you. Um I've not killed him. That's >> Congratulations. >> I know. [laughter] That's where we need the thing. >> That's wonderful. So you can be here with us. >> Exactly.
(30:12) But it's the children that have supported this movement. And now of course I have incredible friends like Lisa and we are I I think it's great because to enter this space on social media at my age I knew nothing I I started Instagram >> during co >> I didn't know what I was doing. I hated the fact that we had to do 30 second reels to explain stuff that would take me hours to explain.
(30:36) >> Yes. >> And um you know Lisa has been one of my supporters my story. >> But what a champion she is. Oh my god. Firstly, your TED talk ages ago, pre- Instagram days, already made everybody want to see more of you, right? Do you remember that? Um, >> remember the TED talk? >> Have you seen it was like one of the most viral TED talks ever back when TED was like the thing >> and so I feel like young Indians were already obsessed with this.
(31:01) >> Yeah. >> Well, you know, I have called you and said, "Lisa, this is happening. What should I do?" And she's just been there to support me. And I think >> I'm so glad though that you use social media in the way that you did when you did because people and you know it's so powerful also to see women of at different stages in their life talking about this because unfortunately so few people have any reference points.
(31:26) I'm so happy they have like someone in their 20s, someone in their 30s, someone in their we they should, you know, like you need representation matters and and for people to talk intergenerationally. I feel like most young people don't talk to their to anybody. >> Yeah. >> Uh who's not in their immediate peer group.
(31:43) >> So I think like I said, my daughter of course who started the page for me and created it and did what she did and people like Lisa who've been there to support me through it. So yeah, I love you so much. Do you find now that all those friends were all judgy given how successful you are like trying [laughter] sorry not today but it's funny how success though I think what's great is that when to see people like with books and bestselling books and videos with views all over the world and awards and like so much
(32:16) respect now coming to people like us normalizes right it does allow for the for people to think like Okay. Actually, sex is talking about sex is a respectable thing to do. >> Yes. Without going nudge nudge wink wink. >> Even though these friends who thought, "Oh, who are these crazy ladies?" I definitely had some of those.
(32:33) >> Did you just make a video about masturbation? You know, when you have like zero followers, but suddenly when you have I don't know, it's a funny thing, but success does just put a halo on >> the whole thing. And I'm glad I'm glad we're making sex respectable. It is respectable. >> No, absolutely.
(32:50) And it makes me want to ask um that sometimes that journey I mean you may be personally motivated by whatever you're motivated by like to educate the world to share your journeys to change other people's lives for the better because and you've referred to parents being such important role models and the education that you get from a young age being so important to just shaping who you are whether it's from school and now they are introducing sexed in schools um at least the school that my daughter goes to they teach them the names of their private parts at an
(33:20) appropriate age when they're two actually from the beginning you know we we call it a vulva and a penis and not nu definitely not shame shame which you've also spoken about so what are some ways that we can unlearn this shame >> can you tell us um Lisa in terms of >> and also your own uh memories of growing up >> so I feel so lucky to have parents who've never made sex out to be something shameful I think it would be much harder to do the work I do if I had resistance in my own household.
(33:52) And so I grew up in Goa. My parents are are quite um >> freespirited, [laughter] >> let's say. And so they never made I mean my conviction in the fact that sex is not shameful and it's a wonderful thing is so is like unflinching. Nothing anyone could tell me could take that away from me. So I've never thought what I do is not respectable.
(34:13) I didn't um need to I mean for me it's like you guys need to get on the same page like I want you before you die to experience the joy of the full force of your sexuality without an iota of shame getting in the way of you like you know taking space and especially women. So I think there was never for me it wasn't so much of a of a journey of like oh sex is shameful and I need to overcome this but my pleasure was news to me.
(34:39) I think I alsent decade of sexual experiences from let's say college to my mid20s like from 18 to 28 I feel like I >> I didn't realize how my own pleasure worked >> and I didn't think of it as a solo journey. I I had a boyfriend like you know from my freshman year in college or whatever. I went to college in New York. It was very liberal.
(35:08) It seemed like I'm having sex. Like what do I need to masturbate for? But orgasm seems so elusive. >> You know, I've often faked it. >> Um it was just like oh it's like my good luck if if it happens [laughter] >> and like some very this magician has made it happen somehow. I don't even know what he did the >> and when I figured it out my I mean I used a toy for the first time at 27 and it blew my mind.
(35:30) 2 minutes whenever I want 30 seconds like >> right >> just like orgasms are no big deal. You don't realize how consistent and focused stimulation of the clitoris, whether alone or accompanying penetration, is just going to make it so much more reliable for you to access orgasm. That blew my mind. I was like, with my Ivy League education and these liberal parents, everything going for me.
(35:51) And my own orgasms took me 10 years to figure out like I have to shout this from the rooftops. Okay. [laughter] Women are not dying without having an orgasm. Not on my watch, you [laughter] know. So, yeah, because there I get messages. is I'm sure you do too. Even today in 2025 where we do have this information and things so many people would write to me I've been married 10 years I have two kids I've never had an orgasm.
(36:13) >> Yes. Yes. And I want to speak about the elusive female orgasm again a little bit later. I just want to ask you Simma firstly in terms of the um formative years of growing up. What are things that we can do as parents or as educators as you just with some of the children who are growing up to create that atmosphere? So I think that a lot of people forget that sex is not just about the physical thing.
(36:36) We we said this earlier already. It's so much more than that. Sex is the penetration part of it is just a tiny part of it. And I think that there's a lot of emotions that come with it. There's a lot of things that you feel. We have to teach children. We start sex education by teaching young people what they're likely to feel when they encounter something like this.
(36:58) Like I always say that the first thing you have to teach kids is rejection. When you are you growing up you like somebody >> more than likely that you will be rejected and rejected many times. It is not it's you don't have to react by throwing acid on somebody. >> It's okay. Learn that this happens. Learn that when you look at somebody you could get really excited.
(37:19) What does that excitement bring for you? You're going to feel nervous. Yes, that is part of it. It might even be the same combination of nervousness and excitement the very first time you have sex. So, it's going to make things even more difficult because you don't know how to deal with it.
(37:37) You know, these are things that we need to start talking about. The fact that attraction happens, desire happens, randomly arousal happens. >> How your body is going to react, what you might see, what you might think, what you might feel. It is so important. That's the first thing that we shut down for so many young people like don't think about that >> about shame for teenagers is conversation parents are not having at all >> and um I found like somebody said to me but this is when their daughters are like 18 and 20 I think she said you know we need to talk to our young kids about
(38:12) this we need to talk to our daughters about some of the stuff that's going on but instead of us talking to them directly because the kids generally will like if you try and talk to them about it. It's like you so they don't want to hear it. >> So she said what we do is we take one of your reels whatever you talked about particularly if it's a question that I've repeated >> and we let that be the subject of conversation at the dinner table so there's no pressure on anybody.
(38:38) >> So you know just things that both of us bring up use that to actually discuss. But definitely the first thing you need to do is actually start telling your children how you are likely to react to things both in your mind and your body. Just the emotions that come with it >> because that's where we're really really kind of letting our kids down because that's this is where guys are growing up saying, "Oh yeah, we can do this emotionlessly.
(39:05) " >> Nobody's emotionless. >> No. And what you said was really interesting just about understanding that there will be rejection. Um and learning those things, it's not just about sex and physical intimacy. I think also when we bring up our children, I don't know whether this is an Indian thing or all over the world.
(39:21) Um we don't give them a lot of agency. Our children, we pick them up from here to there. We don't tell them where they're going. We we dress them, we clothe them, we feed them, we don't respect their appetites. Um so all of that is part and parcel of consent. >> Absolutely. Okay. But I must add over here as well. So I have three kids.
(39:38) >> Yeah. >> And this whole thing was in my head about like I must tell you to see what you want to dress in today. And my middle son absolutely found it traumatic being told that he had to pick his own clothes when he was little. >> And it really bothered him. And I think that you know when people write to me and say what is the what is the age where I should introduce my child to let's say sex toys or introduce them to the idea of sex.
(40:09) What is the right age to >> I think that it's up to the child to come to you >> with their questions. >> I think that we have to create a really safe space >> right >> so that they feel that they're safe because most kids have the internet today. They know far more than >> I do. >> Yeah. >> Honestly, >> I am always amazed at some of the things that my kids would come and tell me about.
(40:32) For instance, I did not know when Tarney told me that her first time that she had sex that she bled so much that she thought she was hemorrhaging and going to die. >> I didn't realize that that could happen right >> till she told me about it. >> So, like I said, I actually think that they know what they want to know. They need to feel safe enough to come to you.
(40:54) So like for instance, I work at my dining table. I've always got a pile of kamasutras on my dining table that I'm referring to. They're not hidden away. They're not at the back of a cupboard. They're on my dining table. >> And the only thing that that has done for my children is to know that it's not an abnormal conversation, >> right? >> And I think that's really important.
(41:14) But I feel like, you know, these books have been on my dining table as well over the past couple of weeks and my daughter's eight and she can read now and I thought, oh, should I because also she was going through my Q cards the other day and um, you know, I said maybe I should take away the ones that are related to this podcast because she might ask questions and I thought, okay, let me just and she came luckily she went through the Kirani ones and she did go through these [laughter] ones so she was asking other questions. Um, but what
(41:39) would be the right age, Lisa, do you think to have a like as you said, you know, you should wait for the child to come to you with questions and you should create a receptive atmosphere. And I'm thinking that there would be no question that I would shut down. No question ever at all. Um, I also feel like if there's literature lying around, I would not hide it from her.
(41:59) If she reads it and if she's able to um take something from it and has a question, then I would uh engage that. But these books are not lying on most people's dining tables. Uh and I feel like a lot of times children encounter things in schools and they may be slightly more diffident or not know how to approach the subject.
(42:19) I do think parents should be a safe space but some of them are not going to that safe space and a lot of their influences tend to be peers and friends that they talk to. >> I think most parents haven't overcome their own squeamishness around the subject. you have got to do the work of >> not being squeamish about sex for yourself so that you're not >> sort of like passing that on to your kid.
(42:44) So I think parents actually don't realize how powerful it is for a young person to have an adult or caregiver who they can ask questions and get accurate answers from. actually young people with access to um you know a parent or teacher somebody who's going to give them scientifically accurate judgment free answers they're known to actually delay having sex take less risks with their own or others health and safety and actually when you give people information it kind of >> makes it less interesting you are making it much more interesting by being like
(43:10) no >> yeah of course like yeah exactly you when you prohibit you eroticize I think there's so much extra interest in sex because it's so hush hush right you actually kind of take the appeal out of it a bit if you're just like huh >> right >> that's it's like the solar system this is how >> right >> you know reproduction works and not all sex is for babies we'll get to that in a bit I don't know whatever that >> age appropriate I think it's not a one time conversation it's an ongoing conversation it's great that you said at
(43:36) school they're already teaching a name >> in some schools >> scientifically in your daughter's school >> and so I think that there's so many opportunity it should be up for conversation whenever right maybe they see dogs mating on the street >> what are they doing mommy Right? >> You know, you might as well be able to explain, right, that mammals >> reproduce in this way, right? >> Or whatever without bl >> or you know, people will walk in on their kid masturbating or self soothing or whatever it is very young even and
(44:05) instead of whacking the kid or >> I don't know losing it, imagine if you didn't really react, maybe we just close the door when we do this thing and this is something you do alone and >> you explain in whatever way you're comfortable. I don't know what age we're talking at this point. I think you need to talk to your kids about porn too.
(44:21) I mean today the internet is so central to the architecture of the internet whe they like it or not they'll stumble upon it whether they weren't even looking you know. >> So media literacy of some sort I think is a parents responsibility at this rate. Even just understanding that not everything you see on the internet is true. You should have that conversation.
(44:38) So similarly you should also talk about adult media. >> I think parents ought to because like this stuff's going to happen by not acknowledging it. It's not not going to happen. So you can just prepare your kid. Right. >> Right. That leads me to ask a little bit about consent. Um because I again feel like that idea of rejection and how you handle it, how you self-regulate yourselves, um how respectful you are to yourself and to other people, it all is built at a very young age.
(45:04) Um before we get into consent um what are your thoughts on popular culture in India contributing to the idea of a lot of films in India do well um and they seem to have a man who's not fully tuned into what consent means um and I don't know and they do very well and they consistently do well and there are some other films that are romantic films um but they don't do so well but these sort of films which have an element of male toxicity they do very well.
(45:35) Why is that? >> Do you want to question? >> Just because that's the um that's the narrative that's been fed to us. It's the narrative that sounds easier. I mean, I was actually thinking, you know, there's this whole idea of the bad boy. For instance, I sometimes have women my age saying, "Oh, no, but I like the bad boy.
(45:54) " It's because popular media has romanticized the idea of what the bad boy is supposed to be. It's this impossibly powerful, strong, really soft on the inside, hard on the outside kind of guy who everybody respects and although he's so distant from everybody else, he really loves you to, you know, that whole crap. Yes. >> And it is crap >> because that's not how it is. Yeah.
(46:15) It's totally buzz. >> So I always say that every girl should date a toxic guy for a couple of months, get it out of her system to understand that that's not what you want. because that's really not what you want, >> right? >> But I think that popular media is it's feeding that narrative that a lot of people, you know, the world is changing.
(46:40) Women are now finding their voice. They're trying to say that this is what I like. This is not what I like. I will not put up with this. No, thank you very much. >> And for a lot of people, it feels like the easy power is slipping away. >> So this just kind of validates that that yeah, this is okay. Now, the problem for me with these films is not that they're showing somebody who's toxic, but how they end.
(47:04) >> Yes. >> With the woman saying, "Okay, fine. I'll accept you the way you are." >> And I think that's where the real problem is. >> Because you can show as much toxicity as you want. >> Nobody should go back thinking it'll end in that way because that's where the real problem for me is, >> right? Yeah.
(47:24) I think like the script around courtship also that we're fed heterosexual courtship anyway is that the man must pursue the woman must um you know sort of like >> of course she must be for >> send off the prop the sort of [gasps] >> yeah you there's this dance that you're kind of like programmed to believe that's how it should be.
(47:44) You can't say yes. Women shouldn't say yes, right? Women ought to say no even if they want to say yes. So then does no mean not mean the men think no doesn't mean yes. No means try harder, right? And maybe you know what we're allow if you really do have good communication with your partner as an adult >> you can play these games okay but not >> no >> I feel like we need a nuanced understanding of consent so that we're accommodating for all the complexity of this >> without um allowing for non you know assault or any of that to be romanticized
(48:19) >> and I think unfortunately this very easy like sort of simplistic fry model of consent or only yes means yes only no means no doesn't do sometimes what if it's a maybe you could be with someone even attracted to them maybe even in their bedroom you may have kissed and you can you can be married to them >> years and >> you can you can the thing can change the dynamic of what you want to do can change in a in a second and you're still allowed to not want to do something else or you know and we don't really allow
(48:47) for that level of nuance it's almost like if you If you've agreed to X, then you've, you know, we don't, I think, think about it deeply enough and we don't really give the um give consent the time it deserves. It's a very complicated topic. It isn't just easy topic of yes, only no, and only yes. And >> you know, just to interrupt you because um you know, in the beginning, of course, we said like if you're just talking about sex, you're um there's a sense of being vulnerable.
(49:13) You're exposed. um your inner traditional heterosexual act of sex, there'll be somebody who's perhaps more powerful than you. Uh so there's a lot going on whereby the idea that your word will be respected, your emotions, your feelings will be respected any stage of that act um I feel is sacred. But um the no, let's assume that people watching understand that when a woman says no, she she doesn't mean yes.
(49:45) Let's also understand if you know a woman is not saying anything, that's not equal to consent. >> Absolutely. But do women have enough power sometimes to say no when they >> Exactly. So that that's when So let's take those as givens and let's talk about the may because that is a huge gray area.
(50:02) Um, and as I was saying, even in your if you're in a relationship with somebody that you like and you respect and you um there's sometimes a reluctance, and I'm just going to talk about women here. Um, there of course all kinds of people, but um there are times when a woman might feel that she has to reluctantly say yes. She doesn't want to offend um her husband, her partner.
(50:28) Um so what can one do in that situation? One is the question see how does one firstly identify their own boundaries and how do you communicate that in a way that is respectful to yourself as well as to your partner. >> So I was just going to say that the first question that I tackled that's when I said okay this book is being written it's this woman who said that her husband who loves her very much she loves him decided that he wanted to watch her have sex with somebody else.
(50:52) So he wanted to be a cuckled. She says I didn't want to. Eventually, she agrees because she said, "I just thought fine, I'll do it for him." So, she doesn't want to, but it's that usual this thing. I love him. I've said no. He's still asking again and again, right? >> So, that coercive consent gets pushed in.
(51:12) >> They then go to a different country. They hire a bull >> and a bull, a a man to have sex so that he can watch. So, this the term is bull. I see. where this guy is brought in to have sex with the woman. Um, and the husband watches and she says that while they were doing it, even though I didn't want to, I enjoyed it.
(51:32) There was pleasure. Now they've come back and she thinks, "Okay, I've done it to please him. Now it'll stop." He, on the other hand, found it really exciting. He wants to get more experimental. >> Now the problem has started where she's like, >> "If I say no, >> will he then do it anyway?" because you know he wants to I feel like we're so much closer but in fact what she's telling me is that she's more frightened in saying anything but finally she says how can I say no because when I was doing it he could see I was enjoying
(52:06) myself so I feel guilty I don't have the I don't have the right to say no >> anymore >> and I think when we were talking about how nuanced consent is >> I just want to reiterate and I think this will have to be repeated many many many times. It's like a lot of people say to me that for the longest time they believed because the boyfriend the husband was saying the vagina's become loose from having too much sex the vagina.
(52:33) Finally after listening to you I've said no that doesn't happen. So maybe we have to just keep repeating it. But I want to say that like Lisa was saying no is yes or no is not written in stone. >> Yeah. It is totally up to you to um decide when you want to change your yes to no or your no to yes. >> So the first thing is that you have to understand that even if you have said yes and you want to say no and if you feel that you won't be able to say it beforehand.
(53:05) So we talk about boundaries almost as punishments but say it beforehand say because a lot of people are like no I won't try this because what if I don't like it >> right? Tell your partner, "I'm saying yes because you really want to try it, but if I don't like it, I will say no." And you have to respect that. >> Yes. >> Put it in words.
(53:24) Unfortunately, we're not saying it enough. We're assuming it'll happen. >> Yes. >> Put it in words. And at no point, you know, the body is able to enjoy something. Sometimes it's conscious, sometimes it's unconsciously that you enjoy something whether you enjoyed it or not. If you don't want to do it again, it is your right to not do it again.
(53:41) >> Right? And I think that we have to learn that boundaries actually keep us safe. >> They're not to punish the other person. Somebody actually said to me the other day, "But don't you think there are just too many boundaries being set now? It's just too many bound." Okay, maybe [clears throat] we just don't know how to set boundaries yet.
(54:00) So, we're setting a lot of boundaries. As we learn, some boundaries will stay hard, some will be soft. They can be negotiated. >> Go in with full boundaries. It is absolutely okay. There is no such thing as too many boundaries. >> That's useful to know because I feel again a lot of people don't want to seem annoying, inconvenient, and then discarded for someone who is more pliable.
(54:21) >> Exactly. >> Which happens. There's so many narratives that you referred to that I wanted you to talk about a little bit. Um, one was the sexually confident woman being up for it. Um, you also referred to, you know, somebody who approached you and um, and then said, "Now, if I follow you, people are going to assume I'm that kind of person.
(54:38) " the woman always not being in the mood. Um faking a headache. The man always being in the mood. These are some narratives that um stereotypes >> stereotypes. Um the uh idea also of honor and virginity which I know you've spoken about but if you can just speak about it a little bit over here. I know there's a lot of you but just some of these stereotypes that we have in our minds.
(55:02) Can we please? >> Yeah. I mean there's this sort of Madonna complex I think when um assessing women right people will think that if a woman is sexually confident then um she has relinquished the right to deny anyone access to sex you're wearing a mini skirt you smoke cigarettes you party you there's a what can women do >> yes >> that isn't perceived of as an invitation like pray tell anyway so of course that's ridiculous we'll judge even you know if a politician is on the beach in bikini.
(55:33) Even in other countries, they get judged for that kind of thing, right? They can try and skew an election by digging out some evidence that she has a sexuality. They do that every time any female uh figure runs for office, which is ridiculous when you think about like the respectability politics of female sexuality are such that you have to pretend you don't have a sexuality to be respectable or if you do acknowledge your sexuality.
(55:55) You're basically >> an object for all to consume, right? You're not allowed to be the sub. You're not allowed to be in control. >> Yes. And so I think that firstly you can you know nobody is always up for sex not men not women. So this the opposite of that that the man is the sort of hunter who's always looking for prey and and almost it's almost predatory the stereotypes around male sexuality which I think does men a disservice too.
(56:17) It's silly that men think that this is serving them. You know, like the player slat dichotomy with men being kind of applauded for having had a lot of uh partner being able to is is not serving them at all. Most men actually have not very much sexual experience, >> right? And so they feel really insecure about this when anyway sex is not a blood sport, right? >> It shouldn't have to be seen in that light at all.
(56:43) So I think that the stereotypes actually don't serve anyone. many somehow men seem to think that like patriarchy serves them, but it really doesn't. No, >> it really doesn't. And so a more equal and um multifaceted view of I think everyone's sexuality. Men can want it or not want it. Women can want it or not want it.
(57:02) And you can be both respectable and sexual um is what I'm hoping to and also gender isn't even binary. Yes. >> Um, you know, where do we like everything most of us have learned about sex and gender is limited at best and inaccurate at worst. So I think if people can set that aside, I always like to encourage people to think of their sexuality as a garden.
(57:22) Emily Nagoski has this wonderful metaphor in her book, Come as You Are, where you know, you um receive certain elements of this garden without your um consent. Yeah. >> In the sense your your family, your culture, whatever environment you've grown up in has ensured that certain plants and trees and weeds are already in there.
(57:47) But as an adult and or you know as you become a more sort of self self-aware being you get to nurture that garden the way that you want it to be right so you can take out some things and plant other things and ultimately you want a thriving beautiful >> garden of Yeah. And so, and I think people ought to think about it like that because I think most people think of it as some sort of like much more static um I don't think they acknowledge how much agency they deserve.
(58:16) >> Yes. >> You know, it's almost like this is just it. This is how it is. This is nature. >> When so much is actually conditioning, not nature at all of what we, you know, even the differences between men and women. I we do a lot >> to to be the way we I don't wake up with no hair and on my legs or like do you know what I mean? No.
(58:35) like the things we do to conform to femininity, >> I think actually and men to masculinity emphasize differences that aren't naturally there, >> right? >> Um whereas people have all of these ideas around that men and women are so >> different. >> Yeah. Naturally different. You know, women are supposed to be de >> Yeah.
(58:55) Do we should we talk a little bit about the virginity honor or is it >> Oh, yeah. So, do you want Sorry, I've talked so much. >> No, no, go ahead. Um, I mean I again so rooted in patriarchy, right? The idea that women's virginity is somehow this location of the whole family's honor, even the nation's honor. I mean, unfortunately, rape has been used as a tool of war for that reason, too.
(59:14) And I think super patriarchal. Um, unfortunately, we're still stuck with this idea, but in a pre-DNA testing time, the only way you could be sure that your son was your son is if you make sure the woman is her father's property until she becomes a husband's property. >> Chastity belts. if you have a lesson >> and anyway um marriage is a economic institution historically it's you have cows I have goats now we have cows and goats and the kids can inherit the cows and goats and it's still I mean the wealthiest families in India still
(59:41) operate like that quite frankly so I think I mean all echelons but even the wealthiest so I think like actually in so many ways so little has changed in the way that we view >> um women's agency particularly but also just the purpose of relationships or sex So >> yeah, >> you know, all of these things.
(1:00:00) And so it it um unfortunately this idea that virginity is something you have to protect and um something that you're kind of in charge of not only for your own like for for what's good for you, but your whole family. Imagine having to think about your whole family. >> If who you have sex with is a reflection of your whole family.
(1:00:18) That's like that's a lot of baggage, right? >> Um and also what why why who cares um who I'm having sex with or when why is it any reflection on anything? And and the um overemphasis on this small amount of tissue, the highman, as if it's proof >> of virginity is also completely unscientific, >> right? >> You know, you don't have to bleed the first time you have sex.
(1:00:40) Some people don't, some people do. >> No. Yeah. >> And many times the result um bleeding is actually the result of insufficient lubrication and injury. There's vaginal injury causing bleeding, not the himman rupturing. It's not a wall that just breaks. It's a stretchy tissue, more like a scrunchie.
(1:00:55) So there's people who in their you know can die with himal tissue still intact at their 90s and then there's some people very who were born without him tissue. >> So the amount of just like misinformation around the science as well as this social ide these ideas of women as the you know vehicles of the whole nation and family's honor and all of it.
(1:01:16) It's just so I mean it really frustrates me. >> There is this weird person not naming names on the internet. They >> like you to name names on this podcast. No, I I noticed but there was this real uh during the rounds that this guy is saying, "Yeah, if a girl says too quickly that she'll have sex with me, >> I'm not interested in her because she's she's okay for sex, but you know, um yeah, I that's not the kind of guy because I that's not kind of girl I want.
(1:01:42) Somebody who's saying >> to marry. >> Yeah, that I don't want to marry her because I'm looking for a relationship." And I was thinking, have you ever considered that the girl might say like, so you're rejecting this woman because she was happy to have sex with you too soon according to you? >> Shouldn't the woman also be saying this guy says yes to sex for anybody? I don't think I want to marry him.
(1:02:05) When did that not why did that not enter anybody's head to think that yeah, I'm sorry. Why could we not have the same >> standard >> standards if that was the standard that you want to go by? Yeah, >> like I just think that this idea of virginity, this, you know, it's the ultimate objectification, right? That >> I will buy this brand new genitalia.
(1:02:29) I will bring it in and then I will walk over this and leave my footprints. That's not how it bloody well happens. You know, it it's just this this ridiculous notion of this is girlfriend material, this is wife material, she's a virgin, >> and this is something you save for. >> Yeah.
(1:02:51) And therefore, I will respect her more. But the girl that I'm really attracted to, the independent one who earns, who makes me laugh, who loves me, who has wonderful sex with me, I will not marry her because I will have sex for the rest of my life with somebody that I don't want to. And then I would go and have an affair, >> right, >> with the person that I liked in the first person.
(1:03:10) >> That's what you're setting yourself up for. >> Um, and it's all comes down to that one little bit of like Lisa said, the highman. >> Yeah. >> So, there's uh we had a guy write that chapter on highman's. Apparently, it is the uh consistency of a wet face tissue. >> It is that thin and useless, >> right? >> And of course, it has >> the weight of the world lies on this.
(1:03:35) I always think you know like family your mother your father your you know your manu everybody everybody's honor is sitting over there >> can you imagine just carrying that in your vagina no wonder vagina's become loose [laughter] honestly it's just something that really bothers me that a your son a a boy in the family can go out harass rape abuse beat.
(1:04:04) >> Yes. >> It's not even a thing. >> No, it's a as you said a stud. >> Yeah. He becomes a stud. >> Yes. >> But a girl looks at somebody else and suddenly she >> we you know when this thing happened with my daughter I was saying about the a lot of bleeding. So there was um a case last year in India or was it year before this young woman who bled to death first time sex.
(1:04:29) So she had sex for the first time, bled so much, must have got some kind of injury. >> Hemorrhage. >> Hemorrhaged. The boyfriend had no idea what was happening. They were too frightened to call anybody. So he's googling this. By the time he took her to the hospital, she bled to death. So we made this real to say that it can happen.
(1:04:50) And then we made a real with the gyn saying, "What is too much? How should it be?" Like at what point do you feel that this is Dr. consultation right now and you know so if it's still gushing if it starts to clot then you know it's starting to stop etc etc I had people writing to me saying but your daughter is not married how could you let her do this I am there was one woman who actually said I love you but I'm hyperventilating I'm so distressed how can it be that you're okay with it ma'am it's like I'm sorry but to me that doesn't define her vagina doesn't define
(1:05:24) her >> literally as human beings are we not as women human beings anymore like I have a face I have facial characteristics I have other things I have limbs but all you can see is a vagina >> and I think that's where my serious issue with this is so in your book the sex book you have [laughter] in the sex book um there's a wonderful chapter on basically you describe the anatomy and everything else but you say these are all the things you need to know much before you get naked and one of the things that you talk about is
(1:05:54) also the legal age to get married the age of consent etc. So I don't know how many people know what it is in India, how low it goes in parts of the world which I was shocked by. Angola is 12. >> Yeah. So the the question of what is the right age to have sex is one to which there isn't an easy answer and even legislators globally have not come to a consensus on this.
(1:06:17) So when you think of so the the age of consent in India is 18 meaning people under 18 are thought to be too young to be able to give informed consent. So all sex even if between minors similar in age is not okay. And actually I think the poxole law which is a prevention of sexual offenses against children law uh is trying to have more nuance there because let's say you're 17 and your partner's 16 and you really love each other and you've decided that you both want to do this thing.
(1:06:45) Should who goes to jail and why? And but if you're 16 or 17 and a 40year-old is trying to have sex with you, the 40-year-old should definitely go to jail, right? So there's like Romeo and Juliet laws where there's different um attitudes to minors similar in age in a consensual romantic situation and different laws for adults abusing children >> which makes sense to me but even so across the world the age of consent itself can differ vastly and some of the more you know quote unquote developed countries let's say uh Scandinavian
(1:07:14) countries Germany what places which have the highest development you know score highest on the development indices have much lower age of consent it's it's often 14 or 15 in some of these these countries which means um they're they're thinking that by that age you should be allowed to make decisions around your own sexual activity yourself.
(1:07:32) Um on the other hand you know in India at one point it was 12 and then in the interest of women's rights it was increased to I think 16 and then 18 in in and in some countries I forget exactly which one but I think there's some Middle Eastern countries where it's as high as 21 25 you said it >> so thank you you thank you so I wrote it a few years ago.
(1:07:51) Um, [laughter] but I think what this all points to is that it isn't an easy question to answer and that really you have to there's a a trade-off between respecting the agency of young people. You know, a 16-year-old is not an idiot. I mean, in many countries at 16 there was a time when I mean some of our own ancestors probably got married at like 13, right? Not to say child marriage is okay, but we've changed our mind on this even in the last hundred years, even in this country.
(1:08:21) So I I think that um there's a a a sort of trade-off between a rightsbased approach for young for youth to have autonomy and then protecting them also from what they're not ready for. >> Right? I >> I imagine that as a parent you've got to I mean in general in India we're so squeamish about teenage sexuality. We don't want to pretend like nobody's having sex till they get married.
(1:08:39) That's just plainly false. So no matter what the law is, I think it would be it would do us well to recognize that people, you know, puberty is a sexual um coming of age, right? And and you can get your period as young as 10 even. Yes, that's so to to equip people with information to to be that safe space to and as I was saying, information is power.
(1:09:01) you equip people to delay having sex till they're emotionally and physically mature and feel ready for it instead of feeling like it's this thing they got to try cuz like you know like alcohol even becomes oh I can't wait to try I don't drink I'm 35 I still don't drink cuz I grew up in go my parents never tried they never said it was something I can't do I just had no appeal for me I saw so many drunk adults it was like I don't need to I don't need to do that you know >> so you really the harder you like resist the ball the higher it bounces whereas
(1:09:28) if you just >> acknowledge reality. I think you really set your kids on a much more secure path to ensuring their own safety and wellbeing. >> Absolutely. And oh my god, sorry. No, I have to just say, Lisa, that's so funny because when I was um 17, I think my mom started saying to me, "Oh, you must learn to drink socially because, you know, we go to all these.
(1:09:49) " I still don't drink. I was like, I see I rebelled. >> Oh, I [laughter] see. Actually, wasn't demonized in your household? >> No, not at all. But um I was 14 when one of my classmates also 14 was married off and uh the following year both she and her mom were pregnant. So yeah, it still happens. >> Yeah, it does still happen.
(1:10:09) It does still happen. I wanted to move a little bit away from that to you personally and I don't know if I'm allowed to ask. I know you've spoken about this >> but um uh I may be wrong. You said that marriage is not definitely mandatory for you, marriage and children as it shouldn't be for anybody. Um, have you decided not to marry? >> I'm really lucky to have no family pressure in that regard.
(1:10:33) I think most people just get shunted off on the marriage train whether they like it or not. Luckily, not once have I ever had to fend that off from my parents. So, I feel like that really lucky. I recognize that privilege. I wish it wasn't a privilege though. Most people have to make that decision before they're even um you know before they even know themselves.
(1:10:51) >> No. And a lot of people don't even consider um a life without a partner. >> Exactly. But I think you can have a partner and still not marry. I don't necessarily not want a partner or a long like somebody I share my life with. And I have had that. I've had long relationships. I've lived with a partner.
(1:11:10) I I'm a huge fan of I'm a sucker for love. Yeah. And and I I think that the friendship and like the the what proximity and everyday um interaction can do for a relationship is a beautiful thing. So it's not to say that I never want anyone or I don't think I need anyone. Um I want a hug at the end of the day for sure. But do I need the states intervention? Do we need to deal do I want to deal with his family? No, thank you.
(1:11:32) To me marriage is like do I want to I I have my own family to deal with quite frankly and you don't have to deal with them either, right? Like your mom can be your problem and my mom can be mine. You know, >> she might be a nice person. >> She might be, but like I there's too I don't have room right now honestly to like deal with expectations of one other.
(1:11:50) >> It's like some people I didn't even know till yesterday. >> I think that sounded horrible, but do you know what I mean? Marriage is such a union of families here. Your relationship stops being about just the two of you. Also, opting out is so much harder. I think, you know, people take each other for granted because now it's like we're stuck with each other.
(1:12:07) I want every day to feel like a choice. We're together. We could both just go our separate ways if we choose or choose to be together. >> And that's just sort of what I highlight that there is an there is a a a universe where that is possible if you want it to have >> I mean I'm lucky to have that choice. I think so many women are denied economic agency.
(1:12:26) Marriage becomes your >> like secure, you know, you're not you're not allowed to work. Yes. >> Even in 2025, people will be like I'm so lucky my in-laws allow me to work allow. >> Yes. >> But that's reality for so many people. So I think especially if you you are making your own money, >> you like what is marriage bringing to the table for me? I'm not convinced there's any benefits.
(1:12:44) It's only going to curb my agency, >> right? >> So >> but um and you've also said I think that um if someone were to get married, it might be interesting. It might be advisable to have sex before they get married because that would be >> you should right >> because sexual compatibility matters, right? out.
(1:13:07) I think that and that brings me to relationships and you just celebrated your 40th anniversary without killing your husband. [laughter] Um and um it's for me let's there different kinds of relationships. Of course I'm in a long-term monogous heterosexual relationship. I think it's incredibly challenging. Um maybe we weren't supposed to be married for so long.
(1:13:28) We were supposed to die at the age of 40 I think [laughter] at some point. >> I love you are being so real so high. I think I think it is tough to be and you will know better. >> It definitely is. >> It's tough. It's extremely tough. And the thing is that I know that we say, "Oh, we weren't meant to be monogous." Um I think that for me monogamy means something slightly different.
(1:13:49) So I think that we choose monogamy a lot of times when you are with a partner in a long-term relationship. I personally would like I think most people actually do want it to be monogous because it makes you feel more secure. Your partner is with you because they wish to be with you. You're the first person in their life and you know it's a desire and it is something that we do consciously.
(1:14:12) It's not just because it's a social norm. I think what we forget is that as human beings we're going to be attracted to other people. >> Yes. Now, that is a very natural thing. At every point in your life, you're going to find somebody else attractive. You may want to um have one conversation with them at one point and then you're okay.
(1:14:40) Sometimes that feeling, that excitement for that other person lasts a little bit longer. That's okay too. My point is that it is very natural. Now whenever I say this so there are a lot of people who will jump in and say oh people aren't meant to be monogous. Oh you know the moment I say yeah but you're going to get attracted to other people. Suddenly I'm the bad person.
(1:15:00) So I get trolled heavily for saying that you're going to get attracted to other people. You have to then make a decision on how you deal with that. That's where you become the responsible adult who has a long-term relationship, who has an understanding of what that relationship means for the two of you.
(1:15:19) You make your decision based on that. >> Mhm. >> So, I find that in any other relationship structure, we have rules. >> Yes. No matter what, whether it is a a shared um kink and BDSM bond, yeah, >> whether it is polyamory, whether it is a gay relationship, whether it is a whatever it is, >> there are a huge number of rules that tell you how to be with a heterosexual relationship.
(1:15:46) There are no rules that tell you or guide you on what to do. You're thrown into this and expected to be. >> And honestly, I I say this all the time. Nobody taught me how to be in a relationship. Nobody advised or guided and you need a lot of guidance like you need to understand how to deal with certain things. The only thing I was told by my aunt just when I was getting married she said beta um don't ever go to sleep on a fight.
(1:16:12) >> Yeah great okay but how how like if I am fighting with him how do I talk that >> like tell me. So I feel that we do such a disservice to people who have like a heterosexual relationship. You expect most of the world to live in those relationships. We don't tell people how to make it successful.
(1:16:37) All the different things that go into making it good, making it worth waking up the next morning with the same person and wanting to go to sleep with the same person the next night. >> Yes. >> Tell me how to do it. >> Yes. Tell me how to put down my boundaries. Tell me how to deal with certain things. Tell me about what is likely to happen, >> right? >> And in those scenarios, what do I do to deal with it? Because like you said, I got married at 23. I didn't know.
(1:17:05) I came from much like Lisa, a family that didn't put me. I mean, I had my identity as a woman. My mother, my grandmother, my great-grandmother were all working women, all highly educated. We believed in the rights and entity of womanhood. I've come into a world where I mean fortunately, okay, my husband comes from a similar kind of background, but there's still a world around us.
(1:17:29) Tell me how to deal with this. Tell me about the shit that I'm likely to face from certain other members of the family and how to deal with. I didn't know how to deal with any of that. So, who was your go-to person? >> Nobody. Which is why you book to be written. [laughter] But then how did you achieve all this agency and this >> with a lot of a lot of tears, a lot of fights, a lot of problems, a lot of everything going wrong till finally somewhere inside you, you kind of slowly discover who you are. Luckily, the two
(1:18:00) of us come from families where we have a certain amount of agency that we come into life with. >> Yeah. >> So maybe that kicks in at some point. Maybe the ability that you have this education, you can do whatever you want with your education. Maybe that kicks in. I don't know. But I know a lot of people who'd like to be in that same situation but can't because they don't know how to be over there.
(1:18:21) >> And honestly, I was saying to earlier, I'm glad I haven't killed him. >> But nobody taught me how to actually and we went through really bad patches in our marriage, too, because nothing is going to be roses and >> gardens the same. And you're not the same people. over 40 years old. >> Yeah, absolutely.
(1:18:41) I wake up a different person every single day. So does he. We are not the same people. We are going to encounter other issues. There is stress, fatigue, other circumstances. Call it whatever you want. Disagreements. We disagree on politics. Oh my god. We have opposing opposing views on politics. Um and we fight a lot over it.
(1:19:04) The only good thing is that we've learned that it's okay to fight over it because we did at one [clears throat] point go silent and that's when the marriage had started to crumble. You know when the cannibals they always say that while they're out there wrestling and drumming and so on, you're fine. When they go silent, you know that's when they're coming to hook you.
(1:19:24) [laughter] Yeah. That's what happens in >> marriage. [laughter] >> No, but when when you go silent on each other, that is >> Yeah. >> That's the downhill path, >> right? >> But yeah, nobody and our marriage is still very much an experiment, >> right? >> All the way because we really don't know what we're doing wrong, >> right? >> Or what we're doing right now.
(1:19:50) People go to relationship counselors, marriage, marriage therapists, some a small amount. >> I'm married to a half Punjabi, half Cindi who 73 years old from Delhi. He ain't going to a relationship therapist. >> But then you're communicating. I mean like how do you overcome those hurdles? >> With a lot of fighting like I said.
(1:20:09) But yeah, I mean I have just learned to be this person who who talks a lot. I mean, we kind of somewhere along the way decided that we would make an effort for our marriage. So, we make that effort. It's not ideal, but we make that effort. It's bloody hard work. >> I think just acknowledging that it's hard work for a lot of people.
(1:20:28) Marriage might be okay. There should be an endless honeymoon. There should be endless and and because this conversation is rooted in sex and physical intimacy. Again the monogous aspect um of a relationship and what makes it challenging is like for example you said at the beginning that there will be attraction to other people.
(1:20:48) It's how you choose to deal with that and whether you act on it or not or what your boundaries are your communication with your partner uh etc. So little bit about um you can help me structure it actually different phases of womanhood postpartum permenopause menopause these are things that you may not know much about but someday you will um uh the permenopause and menopause part I mean um and also the mismatch libidos that can happen at any point in a relationship it can happen does it happen okay let me try to add some finesse to this. Um, what is
(1:21:28) sexual compatibility in chemistry? I'll ask you first, Lisa. >> What is sexual compatibility in chemistry? I think it's a combination of both a um physical and an emotional affinity. You know, there's a magnetism that ideally two people should feel for each other both for the way that they're I actually the way I like to explain it is tan, man, and bil.
(1:21:49) Okay? It should all align. I think when I felt truly like powerfully attracted to someone, there's just like this force field, you know, and it's not just physical. Often for me actually to be really attracted to someone, it's because I'm first interested in their mind, >> but then it doesn't hurt if they also are attractive in this.
(1:22:09) It I've never been personally um that drawn to conventional good looks. It doesn't, you know, you don't have to look like a male Barbie doll to be attractive or any bob, any gender Barbie doll is not actually what people find to be a sufficient um prerequisite for attraction, right? It's so much more than that.
(1:22:28) So, I I think that unfortunately when it comes to marriage, we don't really consider this. I hope people today have a bit more agency in that regard where they can at least be honest with whoever's because arranged marriage is still the way 90% of people get married in this country. I would hope that people are now allowing for young people to acknowledge that chemistry both intellectual and physical matters but you know first what matters is same religion same cast so >> it's it's narrowing down your >> it's a bit >> it's it chemistry is not at the top of
(1:22:57) the priority list right but um and also most people don't even get to opt out of marriage I mean until recently it was unthinkable I think even my very progressive parents and they had a love marriage I don't think being the words spinster and bachelor were like weird words these weird people 40 and unmarried are you kidding me like that was a failure a social failure right so I think sorry to digress but I think that with regards to compatibility it's quite a new idea that this matters >> the idea was just you marry off your
(1:23:26) children and want to settle down and they have more children and reproduction is the they'll reproduce with whoever right >> the compatibility is not a prerequisite for baby >> but actually maybe enjoying the >> but what about enjoying the exactly and so I think that um if we if we do pay attention to what makes us feel alive sexually, right? Because you asked about mismatch and libido um and also just what the sort of es and flows of desire within a long-term relationship.
(1:23:54) It's interesting how even if it was like insane chemistry when you just met it can fade also or it can have its crests and troughs like it's not a static thing, right? You have to kind of operate in this um con consistent >> um work. It takes work. You have to you have to make sure that your chemistry is a priority.
(1:24:13) >> It's amazing how chemistry can ban if I'm disres if someone shows disrespect to me any it evaporates. I mean you can do one thing and like >> gone gone right like a switch off. >> Yeah. >> So how are you going to make sure you don't turn that switch off? >> Because the difference between me when I'm really attracted to someone and me when I'm disinterested is vast.
(1:24:33) Like you could be invisible now dude. You disrespect like really no interest at all. Right. And that can happen in marriages. It happens in marriages. So often unfortunately absolutely where you have zero chemistry because often a sing there's sometimes years of resentment that have calcified but sometimes there's a single action.
(1:24:49) >> Yeah. >> Um >> yeah it's so true and then you know like I don't know which one to ask first about the different life stages. For example as a marriage or a woman goes through different stages in life um it also affects her sexual appetite her libido. Is that true? Is that not true? postpartum for example, per menopause, menopause >> for sure.
(1:25:10) But I actually want to say that I think once again we make it a very binary conversation. >> So once again, we've been fed this idea of chemistry that you look at somebody and then it's just oh it's just that wildest thing over there. >> We don't say that there can be an equal amount of chemistry which is really mellow.
(1:25:32) There can be a comfort factor with the two of you which can just lead to really comfortable, happy, good sex which is equally good >> and that if you find that the libido is dropping or whatever that there is a conversation to be had for that so we don't talk about that >> we also don't talk about so for instance there is um a question in there which I want to bring up just to explain this to you young couple she wrote to me saying that he cheated on Now she said finally when I asked him he said oh he sent somebody nudes and you know there was this whole sort of thing
(1:26:08) he said you've become very religious and so my libido for you dropped so she said I have started doing j and I've started doing fasts which is quite a popular thing right now he said to her that that made my libido drop but then I had this thing with this other woman and that's made my libido come back up and so everything is fixed and she's like literally dying saying was it my fault >> and did he fix it by cheating? >> Mhm.
(1:26:40) >> And I just wanted to say like this is where you know the I mean it's very easy to see how much gaslighting is going on over there. >> But it's also the cultural conditioning. We have been taught that spirituality and sexuality do not mix. We've been taught that if somebody is being more religious, you have to respect them.
(1:26:59) You cannot be sexually attracted to them. >> We have been taught that if that desire for somebody goes down, there's not a conversation to be had that you then go out and look for somebody that you suddenly feel like this about. >> Right? >> So, we are already coming into a relationship with all of this this um stereotypes, right? The other is that what actually happens in a relationship I find like you have you're dating, you've got a great sex life, things are wonderful.
(1:27:35) You then go into a committed relationship. Suddenly sex takes on a whole different burden because now there is this thing that has to grow with you. It has to mean something special. This is what's going to create that bond that's going to keep you together. The amount of pressure there is to make what was fun and carefree into something that is so meaningful.
(1:27:56) >> Yes, >> it kind of destroys most people's desire >> to even go there. We also don't talk about the fact that there could be a time when you just do not want what we define as sex, which is envelopment, >> right? >> You know, we don't want the one genital going into another genital. There are other things too that make it really, really nice.
(1:28:19) is we are not allowed to have a conversation saying I absolutely cannot deal with this right now. But what I truly want to keep that spark going so that we can pick it up at some point is that I have these this level of cuddles with you. I want to take penetration off the table. We don't talk about any of that. We just kind of believe that sex should be there.
(1:28:42) It should always be amazing. You should always feel it. If it's not happening, something is wrong with you. I'm going to go and look for chemistry elsewhere. >> Right. >> It's so cut and dried. And yes, when you go into pmenopause, the hormones start to go funny. >> Yeah. >> Your brain becomes fogged in. >> Yes. >> And if nothing else, that stops you from wanting to have sex because you can't feel the arousal in your body anymore.
(1:29:11) >> No. >> It's the way that your body just changes. You actually can't feel it. And again, like with men, as they get older, their thing is they, you know, they go through this wild sort of this thing of wanting to have sex like they were when they were 20. Nobody says it's going to change. >> How you feel desire is going to change.
(1:29:29) You're not going to go back to feeling the same way. >> But then men's testosterone levels also decline. >> Absolutely. But even as a woman, how I feel desire is going to change. It's not going to go away forever. It is going to be different. It is slower. I want something else. I need something else just to get me going, turn me on.
(1:29:48) These are conversations that we're not prepared to have. >> No, >> we have now understood that come menopause, you don't feel like having sex, there's a hormonal dryness. >> Yes. >> The dryness makes you and >> that's a physical obstacle. >> Yeah. It makes you so miserable you cannot actually cope with and that it's not just in the vagina, it's everywhere in your body.
(1:30:12) There's just there's chaos going on. >> It does come back. >> Yes, >> it does come back. But you have to bring it back very slowly. You have to kind of give it a little bit of help. You've now got to start using a lot of lube. Lisa does an incredible lube with coconut oil, which I would recommend highly. But you know what I mean? Like use that use get your doctor to give you vaginal estrogen.
(1:30:35) >> I was going to say vaginal estrogen can be a game changer. >> It is. It absolutely is. But also figure out where the changes in your arousal are because arousal is going to be so much slower. And more importantly, and I really want to make a point of this, you might look at your partner and you may be going through one of those days when you suddenly feel very aroused, like it's very quick.
(1:30:58) That doesn't mean your body is ready. The body takes time. The arousal doesn't mean that the blood flow has gone in the right quantity to your genitalia. >> You're not ready, right? You still need more time to get there. Get a good solid half hour of good foreplay before the blood goes down over there properly and it will be a pleasurable experience for you.
(1:31:18) >> Right? >> And finally, and I think this is really important. So the Kamsutra says that before you begin sex at all, like before you even begin the kissing or the foreplay, you have to bring your mind to each other. Okay? because your brain is on the email you didn't send and the deal you didn't sign and so on.
(1:31:38) >> So it says talk to each other about naughty stories of gossip like tell each other gossip. >> And what that does is anything that makes you go no you know where suddenly now you're with each other. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Similarly when you finish it says you should tell each other sweet stories. stories that make you feel really cozy and comfortable and loved by the other person because that how you finish this time is how quickly your partner will want to come back to your bed the next time.
(1:32:10) >> Right. It's true. And that memory of how it ended is what brings you back. And I think if you can create that positive >> absolutely and for me my advice always is that yes if sex has become a chore it's become painful it's become whatever but you're doing it to keep that relationship going >> focus on the bit that you really like and extend that extend that bit you will go back for that bit next time I went through a long phase of really not enjoying the penetration part of it but I loved our after chat to the point
(1:32:42) where it was so nice that I kept making that longer. I would be happy to have sex just for that bit for a long long time. >> Yeah. >> And I think it's so important to like we said earlier, Lisa made a point of saying about becoming so aware of what your body wants and likes >> become aware of what your mind and body need >> for you to feel desire.
(1:33:05) >> Yeah. Lisa, is there a golden rule or an average number of times a couple should have sex? >> I actually think there's no golden almost no golden rules in sex. I mean, there's some general best practices, but for one, what might be too little for one couple might be too much for another.
(1:33:26) And so, I think it's really for two people to figure out together. I think also different people can have different um levels of appetites. And sometimes and it's not the stereotype is that men always wanted more women but the number of women who will write to me also saying that my I don't think my husband can cope with my level of >> horniness and it kind of embarrasses me.
(1:33:46) What do I do about it? Um, so I think yeah, it can be there's no gender or um there's no rules really about who wants more, who wants less, or what the right amount is, but I think it's worth people recognizing that whoever that the person with the let's say lower sex drive gets to dictate how often feels right. Right.
(1:34:06) I mean, you don't I think unless, as you were saying, that there's something that they enjoy so much that they're willing to do it very consensually, even if they'd be good with less. I think in general, you don't want to be forcing your partner to have sex ever. >> And so, if the sex is good, they're more likely to want to have it.
(1:34:22) I think a lot of men also just don't >> focus on women's pleasure enough. So, sex feels like a chore, even though they're really yearning for that physical intimacy. You know, it's like if you're hungry, but only dog food's on offer, you're just going to learn to not eat, >> right? And I think that that unfortunately that that's true for a lot of that that's a common um malaise >> which brings me to female pleasure and female orgasm but just >> maybe like once a week. I don't know.
(1:34:49) Impossible. >> Say like I was just saying like just to make some some monogous couples feel like oh at least once them. Yeah. >> What do you think? Once I mean for me once a week at least >> that's your rule to [laughter] say it's >> kind of hard to make time also if you have a job and like >> and children. >> Children. Yeah.
(1:35:08) It's really so I feel you. I would go for quality over quantity. >> Yeah. >> So scheduling sex I know you've said is okay to do. It's not unromantic >> and um like you look forward to certain things. If you dress up and you make it a date um you give it that importance like you schedule things that are important for you. Um >> agree >> doctor's appointments and sex.
(1:35:28) >> Yeah. >> Holidays. >> Schedule them. [laughter] >> Plan them you know >> and plan them. So that's all right. Um so the in your older book the art of seduction I would say that there's 64 skills. >> Yeah I have one I think which is physical fitness. It's number 64. How can physical fitness be number 64? Firstly, number one is singing.
(1:35:49) >> Singing, dancing. >> I think we need to change some of them. >> Oh, no. I don't have >> I have no So, I want to just Okay. I want to make this easier for >> Yeah, please. So, the 64 skills. So, the Kamsutu was written for men, which means that the 64 skills were not just for women to acquire, they're for men as well.
(1:36:10) Now the idea of the 64 skills which are so diverse which include everything from learning foreign languages to doing word riddles, playing chess, um singing, dancing, bot, zoologology. >> It was they're all there. It was about growing your personality. It was about developing your personality so that you become a more desirable, exciting person.
(1:36:32) Like Lisa said, you have somebody who's traditionally conventionally good-looking and yeah, it may be the most gorgeous looking human. You can look at them for about 10, 15 minutes. What then, right? You have to have something that connects you. So the more subjects that you could talk on, the more exciting you became, the more interesting you became as a person.
(1:36:53) That was the idea of the 64 skills. Now um they are not 64 ways to have sex. They're literally how to develop your personality to become a more desirable lover. >> Right? >> You then have something called the panchalikica chhatushi chhatushist. Okay, I can never get that word right. But basically the 64 skills are the panchalikica cortisans >> right >> which are not over here because my work is based on research and this research is very hard to come by.
(1:37:27) So I discovered the panchalikica cortisan skills much after and there were basically how to translate each of those skills into the bedroom right it was that simple. So for instance um I love this one bit which is the shyen ranam the art of making the bed which for a lot of people is like oh you make it look beautiful because people don't know how to translate the metaphors right >> but in fact it was the art of folding down your bed in such a way that you told your partner what mood you were in right >> whether you were happy angry or
(1:38:00) indifferent >> right >> then your partner understanding what mood you were in figured out how to approach Now, that was called communication. >> Yes. And the difficult conversations you may not want to have verbally, but you can do it with your bed sheets. >> Yeah. I love >> Look at the Dway.
(1:38:18) I've got a knife under my pillow. [laughter] Ready? You know what I mean? Like, it actually opened up this idea that good sex depends on good communication, >> right? >> Something that they were talking about 2,000 years ago, which we are not talking about today. >> No. And men used to shave their nails. >> Oh, yeah.
(1:38:36) That was of course this I mean that's a very um highly um sort of eroticized idea of like basically your love scratches were or love bites were ways of um making love. So each love bite each love scratch had its own meaning its own shape its own season. And so they basically said that if you were very high sexual energy then you shaped your nail a certain way.
(1:39:01) If you were medium, it was a certain way and so on. And it says because in those days only men traveled, >> right? >> Women did not travel. So when men traveled to different kingdoms, they if they were low sexual energy, the people in that new kingdom didn't know and then they would shape their nails accordingly and get the best codans.
(1:39:19) >> They get the best they pull the right women, you know, from that. So yeah, there's just so much there that is so relatable to today. Um, I wanted to ask the importance of foreplay because we're talking now about just creating sexual chemistry, maintaining sexual chemistry. Sometimes, um, it's about not knowing your own body and what makes you feel good.
(1:39:47) Um, for I'm again going to speak as a woman for a lot of women. Um, because we don't typically spend a lot of time in the day exploring ourselves. Now, we're making time for going to the gym. We're making time for having our hair done. We're making time with nutritionists and improving our minds, but we're not really allocating time in the day to understanding what makes us feel good, our bodies.
(1:40:06) Should we be doing more of that? Number one, you're already nodding vigorously. Um, and the understanding that we will get from that will help us in so many ways. It'll obviously help um us and our partners when we're having sex. But talk to me a little bit about the importance of foreplay. We already know as again as women we're attracted to having an intelligent conversation to a man's personality.
(1:40:32) Um the brain is like the biggest sex organ etc. But um why is it so important? >> Um so I think that for many women their own sexuality and anatomy is still a little mysterious. Um and unfortunately when you don't know what you you sometimes don't even know you don't know. >> Right. Right? That's the problem. And so I really believe that sexual self-discovery by masturbating is a incredibly powerful tool for women because unlike a male uh genitalia where there's a protrusion and it's external and every time you urinate you see what it looks like and stuff,
(1:41:11) most women have never even taken a look at their own vulva properly and you kind of need to sit down with a hand mirror to see it. you know, it's not um located in such a way that it's easily visible to you. So, so many women don't actually know with enough um shorty, especially if they've never um been sexually active, you know, in your early 20s and you're figuring this all out.
(1:41:33) You might not, if you haven't masturbated, you might not even know what the clitoris is or where. Um because you no one told you. I mean hopefully today there's the internet and things have gotten a bit clearer but even up until my generation I think millennials are the last generation to grow up without a smartphone.
(1:41:50) I would think that nobody in 12th standard would have been able to label the urethra and the vagina separate openings. Everyone thought they pee from the same place that they menstruate from. Most men and women would not have known 18 20 year olds where the clitoris is quite frankly even 50 60 year old. I don't nobody was talking about this. Right.
(1:42:09) So and and I think when you firstly take a look understand what it looks like and which part does what and then also see what feels good for you and of course there I mean your whole body is a treasure trove of pleasure. It's not that pleasure is only um accessible through the vulva, but if you're unsure of whether a clitoreral stimulation feels like this or this or where it is or it helps to like, you know, like examine this this part yourself and gently and slowly and use some lube and you can start with your fingers, but a toy is incredibly
(1:42:39) effective at >> um clitoreral stimulation particularly because it just it does what no human can, right? I >> think you compared it to a Ferrari, you know. >> Yeah. taking the bus [laughter] when you can have a I mean for me it was a hugely educational experience to use a toy for the first time because my pleasure seemed so in inscrable to me like I just didn't know why most of the time I wasn't having an orgasm and what it wasn't so obvious to me that consistent and focused stimulation of the clitoris was required because sometimes during
(1:43:07) penetration as you were saying the angle was just right so there was clitoreral friction because >> kind of hit and miss >> it's kind of hit or miss and then it just stopped like I was just you know whatever was gone and so when you can control these things. >> You know, it's like suddenly realizing that like there's a remote you can you can control that your your room has a thermometer that you have some agency over instead of waiting for the perfect night where it's 22° and the moon's not too bright and the you know really that
(1:43:32) was the difference where I realized wow I can control the variables because now I know what gets me there. I didn't even know it was a happy accident when it happened because we think sex is erection penetration ejaculation and it ends when he comes. So I'm lucky if I come in that same time span >> this optional >> and foreplay is optional this um I feel like the I think things that she I'm really impressed with young men these days I think that they do they have learned they are listening they want to know I really think men do want they are
(1:43:59) trying >> they are really trying >> they are [laughter] happy to say that >> yes happy to say see that >> but I think we can help them >> we can help them the idea that even oral sex or fingering or both um is an an event in itself how about like making me orgasm a few times before we even drop your pants. >> Right. Right. You know.
(1:44:18) >> Right. Yeah. Like the counsel says, make her come twice before you penetrate. >> Right. >> Through other means. Absolutely. >> But you know, like you were saying, the the foreplay, you know, what people don't realize is that the vagina has a lot of nerve endings, but they're mostly in the front part. >> Yes.
(1:44:36) >> Now, as you go deeper and deeper, they are there are fewer and they sort of set back a little bit more. So when you're fully aroused, when you've had that half an hour of solid foreplay, when it is engorged, when the blood flow has gone in fully, there's enough pressure of there for those nerve endings to now be stimulated.
(1:44:56) >> If it hasn't got there, just the regular thrusting motion is not going to press those >> nerve endings, >> right? >> You're not going to get to You may enjoy the experience. I'm not saying that you won't. It can be really mellow. It can be beautiful. All the rest of it >> likely I spent a long time faking it as well until I learned what I had to do.
(1:45:20) >> Yeah. >> But once you know it's achievable, it's attainable. It's not >> I've also unicorn. Exactly. It's not a unicorn. >> But I've also learned to say that no, I didn't come but I enjoyed it without the coming. That's okay too. >> Yes, >> I have had to learn that. But it's taken me years to learn. I'm 63.
(1:45:39) I finally learned it. I be >> and it shouldn't be systemically hidden. This information shouldn't seem like it needs to be discovered with a map and having to follow all these. It should be general knowledge, right? Imagine if we didn't know how our eyes worked or something, >> right? [laughter] But so, okay, G-spot and Tetris different things.
(1:45:58) >> Yeah, sorry. No, go for it. So I was going to say that for instance I'm just going to start with literally this idea that the Kamsutra talks about about 24 22 to 24 G-spots. It says that there are just that many nerve endings and each one is capable of giving you pleasure. Just have to figure out.
(1:46:17) So the clitoris actually has its own name. It's called the madanchhatri the umbrella of the love god. So I mean it is that whole idea that and they knew they knew at that point that the whole umbrella unlike us thinking that there was just a little >> um but yes sorry what I find interesting is that some of these nerves nerve endings slightly closer to the according to the kamus like so this is not me because I'm a medical person >> are closer to the um surface and hence the certain types of activity can access those points and we were talking about fingering.
(1:47:01) There is um the cams talks about an entire chapter on how to use different fingers. So it's not just that is never to be used on its own that finger it says that this will just agitate not excite. So everything has to be in combination. But if you notice like if I do this for instance, it gives me a certain amount of length and a certain amount of moving.
(1:47:23) So it will get to a particular point. >> If I do this, it changes the length, it changes how I move it. >> If I do this, it changes it. >> There are some that even says you go in and then you do this to add more friction. So there's a lot of >> um concentration on accessing different points. the G-spot.
(1:47:46) Um, so I mean ages ago some German dude called Ernst Graphenberg was credited with discovering that there was a erogynous zone on the upper wall of the vagina that um when stimulated can result in pleasure and it was called the G-spot. But I think the way that the struct well it's not a structure. The zone was named G-spot makes it sound like it's a structure.
(1:48:09) So people be like where is G-spot? as if there's a physical bump or button or some magic bean to look for in there, right? Men and women alike. I mean, there were there were times when the historically like Cosmopolitan magazine issued an apology for the way it had written about the G-spot, how to find your G-spot, you know, because they acknowledged after certain research was published that they perpetuated this myth that there was something to find there and only the only those in the no, you know, >> but in fact, it's interesting. It's
(1:48:38) called a mad mother chetu because the clitoris is a structure that's much bigger than just the little P-shaped. We only see the head of the clitoris, the glands of the clitoris externally. It's actually kind of wishbone shaped. It has two um sort of legs, >> bulbs that that straddle the vaginal. So, I wish I had my little model here, but if this is the vaginal canal, the clitoris is kind of seated like this.
(1:49:01) where the legs of the clitoris um are actually so close to the upper wall of the vagina internally that when you stimulate the upper wall, you're also stimulating the internal parts of the clitoris. The urethra is also right there. So there's so much going on in the small amount of space that more contemporary researchers have suggested renaming what was thought of as the G-spot because it's really an erogynous zone, not a structure, as the clitor urethra vaginal complex because it's like literally three parts of anatomy
(1:49:31) kind of stacked on top of each other and and particularly when external clitoreral stimulation has either preceded or is ongoing and then you add internal stimulation against the upper wall. Many people do find that pleasurable, especially combined. And what she was saying also about how it kind of you warm up to penetration can be amazing.
(1:49:49) I I really do enjoy penetration, but I don't want to go from a zero to penetration. >> You know, you kind of like work your way up there and if you're doing all of this at the same time, it can feel incredible. Sometimes women feel like they need to pee when they're about to orgasm because the urethra is right there, too.
(1:50:04) And hence clto urethra ure >> clitto urethro vaginal complex. It's a mouthful, but at least it explains what's going on. >> Absolutely. Um my friend Nanja has a question for every podcast that we do uh and then we try and address her question and she said that um typically for women it is more difficult to orgasm through penetr penetrative sex uh and much easier uh through masturbation and with the aid of vibrators >> for sure.
(1:50:32) I mean, sorry, you want me to elaborate? [laughter] Yeah, I wanted to address that and then to talk about the fact that there are options outside of penetrative sex also for women to explore pleasure by themselves, maybe understand their bodies before they're able to explain it uh to their partners. >> I mean, so many women, especially in this part of the world, uh will have their first experience of pleasurable clitoreral stimulation with a jet spray in the bathroom, you know.
(1:50:55) Uh um it might be funny or some people think it's like, but let's be honest. And many people think they're the only woman in the whole world who knew that and now you also of course right and so people actually do intuitively I think recognize when they experience let's say pleasure with the vibrator like oh I have felt that it felt good maybe when I rubbed my legs together or when I used the jet spray or whatever they clitoreral stimulation being a source of pleasure is something that women quickly like oh yeah like I have felt it I
(1:51:21) didn't realize I could control it and experience it so easily and I think you know >> the penis and the clitor are actually um homologues, biological homalologes, the same tissue in a fetus when when sexual differentiation is going on becomes either a penis or a clitoris. And so when you think about how central to pleasure the clitoris is like imagine if we had sex with men and didn't touch their penis, >> right? >> Stroke their balls and expected them to come.
(1:51:49) That's how >> what is happening. >> Yeah, that's what's happening. to ignore the clitoris, to not include it at all is like expecting for women to experience pleasure without >> activating the the >> Yeah. [laughter] >> So, and and the focus and consistent stimulation that a a suction or vibration device can provide is just ex is designed to to make this, you know, to for fireworks basically.
(1:52:16) >> And women are people are buying vibrators. >> People are buying vibrator. I mean, I co-founded a brand called Lizus where we make sex toys partly because for me they were so lifealtering and I've been talking about them for 10 years. You couldn't even get them here at one point and today you can get them on blinket.
(1:52:31) I mean I wanted to I wanted to like buy out like everybody thousands of you could also buy them. >> They're not scheduling their sex Sunday. >> No just for ease of access and delivery. But I I think that what's wonderful is men are often also buying it for their wives and girlfriends. >> Yes.
(1:52:51) There's this idea that I think more and more men recognize that being supportive of your partner's pleasure, doing everything you can to ensure she has the best time is going to result in better sex for both of you. Like you are winning, too, if you do that. >> And I think more men are recognizing that. There was a time when men felt, "Ooh, this is a competition to me.
(1:53:06) " And now they're like, "This is my best collaborator. It's like getting a paintbrush. I'm an artist now." You know, >> and I think turned so many of those stereotypes on their heads. Um, one that I feel also can be an aid sometimes u when people are experiencing um ups and downs uh is erotica and you've talked about audio erotica you've talked about literature um there's also porn um and I feel like I think again when I was reading that India is the largest consumer of online porn uh but a lot of people who are consuming it may not
(1:53:36) understand whether what they're watching is ethical whether it was ethically shot whether there's consent to the act to it being recorded to it being distributed. Um so if you could maybe talk Lisa first you a little bit about what ethical porn is and then even within that um what I mean I I don't make it sounds analytical but there are advantages of watching porn it is a healthy release of your curiosities your interest um as you I think haveelves have said without the fear of infection rejection >> well masturbation is yeah
(1:54:12) >> I think like one of the safest forms of having sex without the fear infection, rejection or anything. I think porn can have its ups and downs. Yes. >> Uh maybe I I feel like I'm less um unequivocally an advocate of porn than I am of masturbation. I think you can masturbate with your imagination. And I encourage you to do that because >> a lot of people >> you need a visual visual aid.
(1:54:32) >> I'll get into porn in a second, but I feel like people bucket the two together >> when that's not necessary. I'm not a porn watcher at all actually, personally. Although I mean I don't my arousal is not triggered by watching other people have sex. >> Um I don't even like watching sport or cooking shows like master chef cuz I want to eat.
(1:54:50) I want to like do the thing. I don't want to watch the thing. Different strokes for different folks but that that's personally my thing. So whenever I've watched porn it's been more like an education like oh okay here's how this thing works. Maybe it's an experience I haven't had and don't want to have but I want to know how it works. Very educational porn it can be.
(1:55:06) And I think for many people it does serve as an education as well because where else are we learning about sex from? And I think some porn ethical porn is now being made with that context like okay young people are learning about sex from porn. How can we make sure we are including consent including emotion including um discussions around things like even what's sex like? if you have a disability or a mental health issue or um just more diverse people in terms of ethnicity, body type, age group, whatever, right? Um also that this
(1:55:39) there's more um sort of clear understanding that all parties have been paid correctly in this consensual consent to the dissemination of the clip, etc., etc., where on mainstream porn sites that are free often I mean everything from revenge porn to AI like it there's just so much out there and you don't even know whether the people in there can send it to being to being put on the internet.
(1:56:01) So >> for all those reasons ethical porn is trying to mitigate some of the downsides of mainstream porn which often also tends to be very violent and misogynistic. There's tons of the male gears without any kind of um thought given to the fact that >> even though it may be intended as adult entertainment, it is serving as many young people's first visual reference point for sex.
(1:56:24) Like do we need to see, you know, a woman being >> um violently treated by multiple men? >> I don't know. Do we need to at age 10? Maybe that's not your best visual reference point. That's the average age in America right now for when young people get exposed to porn. So you know um there's like a kitchen knife I guess any you can use it to make your dinner you can also kill someone with it I think any whether it's social media porn various forms of like internet stuff I think the internet itself is quite like a kitchen knife >> many useful like amazing things that
(1:56:53) come out of it but also many quite harmful things so how do you make sure you use it to make dinner and not to harm people or yourself right >> um sorry I talk so much >> no no but I feel like you're No joke. No, I feel like balanced stuff. >> You're covering very important things because as you said um you know they and the internet is this completely unregulated place and now you have AI entering into the mix as well and um you know we really don't know what is real and what is not um and our visual references and therefore so much is
(1:57:23) being molded as a result of that. Is there anything that you wanted to say about that? >> So I think that um a few things actually very quickly. One is that when people are watching porn, I find that yes, there is porn that is being made, which is ethical porn, let's call it that. Um because that's the term being used for it for different reasons.
(1:57:46) It's generally behind a pay wall. People will go for the free stuff. >> Yeah, >> there's a problem. Now, somebody wrote to me for instance saying that he watched um sibling porn and he said, "I feel destroyed. I can't look at my sister. I can't be in the same room with her anymore. I feel so I think that you know parents are always their idea of teaching their child about porn is which is okay understandable but the point is maybe try telling them that it is likely to come up >> and it is not real and you need to basically whatever you end up watching
(1:58:20) you have to become responsible for knowing that you have to deal with it there is a consequence to what you are going to go through now I by chance um for the last two years has spent a lot of time with people who make adult uh content for different reasons. So there's one platform there's a very well-known lady called Erica Lust >> who makes films and uh so I spent some time with her in Barcelona.
(1:58:47) We talk through these things and one of the things that she does is before the movie comes on um they will do like um they do like a a video of everybody who's going to be in the film and everybody sat over there in costume beautifully dressed up somebody in there you know I mean looking gorgeous and they will say what they will or won't do so what they will or will not accept and part of Erica's team's job is to make notes of everything.
(1:59:19) Which means that if one person says, "I will not do it without a condom." When you're on set and you're getting carried away, you are and you might go without the condom. You're going to be stopped and told, "Sorry, you said this, you're going to wear the condom." >> Now, she says that there is because it has been made for the male gays.
(1:59:41) And I used to always say, can we just put one person in every film who says no? When a guy comes along and says, I want sex, put in one person who says no. >> So then what happens then? >> And then let him go to the next one who says yes. But let that no become audible to people watching. Let them know that no is a possibility.
(2:00:02) >> Let even men say no. >> Yes. Like >> absolutely. >> Let somebody say no. that again like I said Erica's stuff does that but it's behind a pay wall so we don't always get to this there's another site called make love not porn where which has been started by this lady called Cindy Gallup and Cindy gets people to send in their videos so they're real life videos real life sex videos and then they go through all the paperwork to make sure that it's consensual on both sides not just and then that is loaded so I interviewed
(2:00:37) somebody for a video on vaginismas. She's an adult content creator with vaginismas >> and I said to her, how did you get past that? Because she actually has >> Tell the people watching who don't know what vaginismas is. >> Sorry. So vaginismas is where you have this issue where your vaginal muscles clench so tightly that penetration becomes absolutely impossible.
(2:00:57) The pain is so intense. It is a psychological problem but it manifests very physically. So we are not to say oh it's just in the mind. It's it's a very physical issue. And imagine now if you're an adult content creator but with vaginismas that is a major obstacle to your work >> and she's done videos actually the first time she manages to put her own fingers inside her the first time she manages to penetrate >> and I said to her how did you get to this point so she was telling me about the different things that she tried and
(2:01:28) she said one of the things was that um it was from watching the real life sex videos because you suddenly realize that every guy doesn't have to be that size. >> Yeah, >> they can be normal >> organ sizes and it made her less frightened. >> So, there are definitely now I spent time with a lady called Zara Stardust who's um taught at Harvard.
(2:01:51) She's a PhD from New Zealand. She's a sex worker and she's a porn star. So, she's a sex worker and she is also an adult content creator and she can I mean she's done everything from when she was pregnant to pregnancy porn to literally everything. So, one is that everybody believes you know when the when the two sides of the debate come in about this is always non-consensual.
(2:02:16) This is it's not always non-consensual. It is a lot of times also the other way. But yes, there's a huge aspect of it which is a disgusting non-consensual run by monopolies and so on you know. So there there are issues all around. There are a lot of people who rely on porn for their relationship to feel like the spark is alive.
(2:02:42) They watch it together or they watch it separately but they bring it to each other. There are also people who say, "I'd much rather watch this, come and then I can come and love you, but I don't want to have sex with you." So, we've got one of those questions in there as well. I think like with everything, it is on a spectrum.
(2:03:00) It's how you choose to treat something. If you are using it to help your sex life, it's great. If you are using it to replace your sex life, >> you have a problem, >> right? And yes, there are issues much like when we talked about the films where you have the toxic man getting the woman because of his toxicity. >> The same problem arises here. Yeah.
(2:03:19) >> But I think people don't recog like you human trafficking and any activities that are the result of human trafficking or against or sexual assault is not we should not be even calling that porn. >> You know people b like throw away the baby with the bath water because there's insufficient nuance even in terminology.
(2:03:36) We could be talking about a sex worker, a porn star with agency who chooses to do the work that she does and um feels, you know, confident and happy with that choice >> with the same language that we're talking about some minor who's been trafficked. >> It's it's not the same. Yeah. Absolutely. >> And why should we have to either go say okay to all of it or and you know what I mean? >> It's like people who refer to rape as sex.
(2:04:01) >> Yes. Exactly. What is non-consensual sex? sex whether consensual or non. No, rape is rape, right? We we like I think pussy fit around certain words. Rape is one of those things like sexual harassment, sexual >> and they'll say but it's sexual, you know. No, it isn't. It's sexual assault, but it is not sex, >> right? >> And trafficking is not in any way something that anyone is condoning like pro proborn feminists.
(2:04:33) I'm not saying human trafficking is okayactly >> and people just th I don't know mix things up. Even masturbation and porn bucketed together with the nofap movement. There's a lot of like convenient bucketing together because there's so much moral panic >> that I think so often nuance is just missing and it's like where do you even >> if you're unwilling to engage with nuance you've like kind of >> and then exactly then you're losing >> and you know that nofap movement sorry I just want to throw this in how detrimental it was to so many men. I had
(2:05:02) so many guys writing to me that the big male influencers in India were going around saying I am noof fapping meaning sorry just in case you don't know what that means the nofap movement started to help people not masturbate to porn so masturbating to porn is the fap and the nofap was not doing that >> and there were all these and then it became just not masturbating and then it became not having sex right >> so it just took took on different meanings over here >> and you had guys on the internet saying look how successful I am because I
(2:05:39) became celibate I stopped masturbating look at me and there were men writing young boys writing saying that I am destroying myself because that's all I can think of I really need to is this really bad will I not succeed in life I just think people who don't know what they're talking about need to step the hell back >> rather than destroying other people's lives Yeah, >> but it's so easy for uh quick views.
(2:06:04) >> Yes. >> And quick followers. >> But that's the thing that in the interest of without the foreplay, you're just getting to them and then I feel like a lot of people will not even be watching at this point of the podcast and they're missing like the most important part of it. Um >> Oh, I'm sorry. Run away from us by now.
(2:06:20) >> But I'm saying we talked too much. [laughter] I wanted to just talk about polyamory because I feel like monogamy is one kind of relationship. Uh they and I'm not very familiar with polyamory. Um I remember going to a therapist at some point and she had told me that open marriages in her experience don't work.
(2:06:44) Uh but I also have friends who do experience are in polyamorous relationships and um this is something that maybe you are more familiar with the both of you. Um it's not my world but just understand that that also exists and that you can um negotiate feelings of insecurity, jealousy, those will come and those will go but they can be handled.
(2:07:10) I think again there's the um lack of nuance often in this like polyamory is justifying cheating. That's not what it's supposed to be. But people will say people who don't understand the idea of ethical non- monogamy or to whom it is so incredulous that you could possibly willingly allow for >> and one thing I do there's no deceit involved in transparency between everybody involved everybody involved >> and you know it's not for everyone.
(2:07:35) I feel like also if they are people will be quick to think that if a topic is being discussed it means it's being universally recommended. >> Right. >> Which is like so annoying because then you don't talk about the more complicated subjects because the viewer doesn't give you the grace of like a good faith reading of your um conversation. Right.
(2:07:52) >> Right. I nothing I say is ever the solution to every like onesizefits-all answer to this is what you should do. And I would think that we both try and make that clear. But often when talking about something like non- monogamy it be like [gasps] >> these two are destroying the fabric of you know >> which firstly shouldn't be like surely the fabric of society is not monogamy or it shouldn't be uh there should be more to it.
(2:08:17) What about civic sense? But yeah, [laughter and gasps] you know, but the idea that some people might want to explore different aspects of what it means for two people to connect with more than one person. I mean, to to a large extent, it is quite um incredible how much we're thought we can expect, we're taught to believe that we should and can expect from just one other person.
(2:08:43) like you now your partner is your best friend, your co-parent, your house runner, your right, you're just like everything. They have to entertain you and support you and console you and provide for you and like there's a lot it's a ton, right? And also be interesting to go to the museum with and also like it's a lot to expect one person to be able to do.
(2:09:01) So I think some people have maybe you have a you know a primary partner who you're running a home and have kids with. Maybe you have a special friend you do the museums with and maybe you have a another person who you like to talk about whatever your most heartfelt unfiltered issues with and so we understand that in friendship.
(2:09:18) Yes, >> for example, having multiple friends is not a well, some people are really possessive even if they're friends, but that surely we recognize there's some examination to be done there, right? Or like you can have multiple um colleagues, friends, children, whatever. And it's not a competition for love.
(2:09:33) And I think if you can extend that >> attitude for some people, they're able to extend that even to their romantic partner where it isn't a >> hierarchical possession that comes with love and with like romance and sex that you know it goes beyond that. uh and I think the important thing would be the takeaway would be that there should be transparency and there should be consent and everybody should actively >> and the fact that certain emotions will always come up, jealousy will come up.
(2:09:58) You may not you may think it's fine when you're doing it but when your partner does it, jealousy will come up and it can be dealt with. >> Right. A woman said that my husband wants to be polyamorous and I wish to be monogamous. >> Yes. >> And how do I deal with it? And I think rather than trying to explain it because I really didn't know very much about how you would deal with that.
(2:10:20) So I interviewed another Indian woman I actually found an Indian woman who's written a book her name is Deepa Paul >> and um she'd written a book about her own polyamorous relationship and I really wanted to interview an Indian for this because there's a lot of American voices that talk about this but I find that we practice intimacy and sex in a very cultural way like it means different things to us.
(2:10:43) So, um I'm not going to go into all of the details, but I was fascinated with what she talked about, how you deal with jealousy, which talked about um things like um the finances of it. Things like how do you because what they said was that how you everybody practices polyamory is also different. >> How you think of polyamory is different.
(2:11:04) Every it's not a homogeneous thing definition. So there's quite a lot to think about so that you and your partner truly have an ethical relationship where the boundaries and the safety and the respect is met. >> So I would suggest that that chapter is a good one too. >> I think it's and as you said like for a lot of people it might just be that they're in a relationship with one person and they find that challenging or boring and they just want to step out of the marriage and they may not both be consenting to that. So as long as
(2:11:35) there's transparency, there's actual conversation and there's consent and agency on all parts >> and really important understanding the money side of it. Like if you have got two other partners at all times, where is the money for them coming from? Is it coming from your budget? Like >> these are things that we don't think about who's thinking about the SDI checks like are you actually thinking about that or do you think it's okay to just run around and do what that's not polyactic? >> Exactly. Right. I think I can I can
(2:12:03) really be here forever. Um, but in the interest of time, I'm I feel like good conversations like good sex, they can go anywhere. Um, >> and I really feel that for me there have been a lot of takeaways and I don't think I actually blushed through most of it. I think I was able to absorb a lot of it.
(2:12:23) I think it's been really useful information um for a lot of people just to as you said things that you may not even know that you know or you need to know um and there's a lot out there to unpack and to explore just park parting messages from the both of you if I can ask you first Lisa just one message perhaps for teenage girls that you wish that someone had told you I know that you >> learn to say no and not just in bed in life in general I think >> I think Jenz and younger have better um like reference points in this regard.
(2:12:54) But millennials were still I think conditioned to shrink themselves all the time. Don't laugh too loudly. Sit with your legs crossed. Don't >> disobey. Don't question. Don't don't don't don't you know just be acquies and pliable. Smile. >> Um and and I think that we have gotten better at rejecting that conditioning.
(2:13:12) But I would say it doesn't hurt to be reminded again like choose yourself, say no, don't shrink yourself. Um, your agency exists and matters and you are entitled to it. You can have preferences and opinions and you can laugh and you should have fun and you should make money.
(2:13:30) Like all the things that society is trying to stop you from doing, you have every right to do if you want to. >> Yeah. Lovely. And hypothetical question. Suppose you're a woman in her late 40s going through hormonal changes and your libido is um not where you want it to be. Is there like a a drink that you something you can whip up in the kitchen that will help you? >> No, there's absolutely nothing that you can consume that will suddenly make you um a more a a better lover, >> right? >> Um and I we don't unfortunately have a little blue pill because we don't have a
(2:14:04) button that we can press as women that will just give us a an erection so to speak. >> So no, I'm afraid not. It does start in the mind and hence I would suggest for everybody I think the first thing that we do is that the moment a thought about pleasure crosses our mind the guilt makes us shut it down >> so open your mind to it just the thought is coming through even if you don't want to do anything about it let the thought come through acclimatize your mind and body to pleasure thank you thank you both so much for spending so much time
(2:14:36) with me today I think today truly we brought the ah into all about her uh and um it It was it was lovely. It was just a lovely conversation. So, thank you both for your time. >> Thank you for having us. We loved being [laughter] here. Thank you for for addressing this topic. >> Conversations about sex, about intimacy, about pleasure, they can be difficult to have.
(2:14:56) They're not always the easiest conversations to be had. Uh, but I think especially for a generation that grew up with teachers that skipped the whole chapter on reproduction and families that avoid the topic or shut you down entirely, they're very important conversations and the more we speak openly, the more we understand our own bodies, our own desires.
(2:15:18) I think we take away the shame. A huge thank you to the both of you for bringing clarity, honesty, and also science, I think, to a subject that is so often misunderstood. If today's episode made you feel at all seen, informed, or even just a little more comfortable with yourself, then please do subscribe to the show because this is exactly what All About Her is meant to do.
(2:15:38) Until next time, stay informed, stay healthy, and we will see you in the next episode. [music]
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