శరీరంతో తాదాత్మ్యం చెంది 'ఈ శరీరమే నేను' అనుకునేవాడు తనని తాను చంపుకుంటున్నట్లే. 'నేను ఆత్మను' అనుకునేవాడే మహా ధన్యుడు.
సూర్యకాంతితో చీకటి మాయమయినట్లు 'నేను ఆత్మను' అనే ధ్యానం సంచిత కర్మనంతా దగ్ధం చేస్తుంది. ఇక కర్మఫలం ఎలా మిగులుతుంది?
ఓం నమో భగవతే శ్రీ రమణాయ
ప్రశ్న :
భగవాన్! ప్రపంచంలో ఇంత దుఃఖాన్ని దైవము ఎందుకు అనుమతించింది? దైవము సర్వశక్తిమంతము కదా! దైవము ఒక్క వేటులో సర్వదుఃఖాలను నశింపచేసి ఎల్లరకూ ఆత్మశాంతిని ఎందుకు ఇవ్వకూడదు?
మహర్షి :
ఆత్మశాంతికి మార్గము, ఆర్తి(వ్యాకులత).
ప్రశ్న :
మరోవిధంగా మార్గం లేదా!
మహర్షి :
వ్యాకులతయే దానికి మార్గము.
ప్రశ్న :
భగవాన్! దైవం నాకెందుకు కనపడడు?
మహర్షి :
కనపడితే దైవానికి నువ్వు మనశ్శాంతి లేకుండా చేస్తావు! నువ్వంటే దైవానికి భయం! నీ కళ్ళకి కనపడ్డాడంటే నీ కోరికల చిట్టా విప్పుతావు! వదలిపెట్టవని ఆయనకి తెలుసు. అందుకే కనపడడు.
‘పరీక్షవ్వగానే నాదగ్గరకొచ్చెయ్! ఇక్కడే అన్నం తినేసి సాయంత్రం పెందరాళే బయల్దేరిపోదాం. నీకు విశాలాక్షినగర్ చూపిస్తాను!’
కలెక్టరాఫీసులో పనిచేస్తుండేవారు నాన్నగారు. మనం మొట్టమొదటిసారి ఎమ్ సెట్ రాయడానికి వెళుతోంటే అప్పగింతలు ఇవన్నీ!
కె.జి.హెచ్. ఎదురుగానే కలెక్టరాఫీసు. కట్టేటప్పుడు బ్రిటీషు దొరలు కక్కుర్తిపడ్డారో లేదో తెలీదుగానీ రెండు బిల్డింగులూ రామాయణ భారతాల్లా తరతరాలకీ చెక్కుచెదరని జ్ఞాపకాలు. ఇప్పటికీ నిత్యనూతనాలే!
అనుకున్నట్టే పరీక్షవ్వగానే బయల్దేరి కలక్ట్రాఫీసులోకి ప్రవేశించాను. కిందనుంచి పైకివెళ్ళే మెట్లమీద ఎర్రటి తివాచీని చూస్తే భయంతో కూడిన భక్తిభావం!
అది ‘ఒరేయ్, నువ్వుకూడా బాగా చదువుకుంటే ఇలా వూళ్ళేలే మంచి వుద్యోగఁవొచ్చి ఇంతంత గౌరవాలూ పొందుతావు!’ అని చెబుతున్నట్టనిపించింది.
మెట్లన్నీ ఎక్కి మలుపు తిరగ్గానే వరండాలోకి బంగాళాఖాతం మీంచి చల్లటిగాలి రయ్యిమంటూ వచ్చి తాకింది. అరకిలోమీటర్ దూరాన్నేగా సముద్రం వుంటా! ఎంత అద్భుతమైన ఆలోచనో! అటువంటి గవాక్షాలు చుట్టూ వుంటాయి ఆ భవనంలో!
ఆ ఇంజనీరెవడోగానీ పూచ్చెయ్యాలనిపిస్తుంది నిజంగా! ఈరోజుల్లో కొత్త భవనాలు కట్టేవాళ్ళని పూడ్చెయ్యాలనిపిస్తుంది.
సి సెక్షన్లోకి అడుగెట్టిన వెంటనే నా అంత పుస్తకాల్లో తలదూర్చేసి తెగరాసేసుకుంటూ నాన్నగారు కనబడ్డారు. పక్కనే నిలబడ్డాను.
‘మూడోవాడు సర్! ఇప్పుడే ఎంట్రన్స్ రాసొస్తున్నాడు!’ కుర్చీలోంచి సగంలేచి వినయంగా చెప్పారు.
‘వస్తదా సీటు?’ అన్నాడాయన అదోలా నవ్వుతూ.
నేను నవ్వానుగానీ అది ఏడిసినట్టుంది.
నాన్నగారి టేబుల్మీద చాలా ఫైళ్ళున్నాయి. కాలికో ఫాయిల్స్ కొన్నింటిమీద అర్జెంటనీ, మిగతావాటిమీద ఆర్డినరీ అనీ రాసి తాళ్ళుకట్టి వున్నాయి. కానీ నాన్నగారు ఆర్డినరీ ఫైళ్ళనే అర్జెంటుగా పంపించేంత బిజీగా వున్నారు. అది రక్తంలో వుండే లక్షణం. ఆయన కారిడార్లో కాలక్షేపం కబుర్లు చెప్పేరకం కాదు.
‘నువ్వు తినెయ్ నాన్నా! నేనీ లాండ్ గ్రాబింగ్ ఫైలు పంపించేసి వస్తా!’ అన్నారు. ఈయన ఇప్పుడప్పుడే రారు . నాకుతెలుసు.
వెనకాల వరండాలో బల్లమీద కూర్చుని గట్టిగా ఆరిపోయిన ముద్దపప్పు, చల్లగా మారిపోయిన బెండకాయ కూర, అన్నం ఎక్కించాను. పాపం, ఈయన రోజూ ఇలానే తింటారా?
కంచం కడుగుతోంటే వచ్చి తనది కూడా భోజనం అయిందనిపించారు.
ఆయన తింటోంటే అక్కడే బల్లమీద ఎంసీక్యూస్ బుక్కట్టుకుని పొద్దున్న నేను పెట్టిన బిట్లలో ఎన్ని ‘ఫట్టో’ చూసుకుంటూ కూచున్నాను.
అరగంట తరవాత మళ్ళీ గుహలోకి వెళిపోయారు నాన్నగారు. సాయంత్రం కాస్త ముందుగా వెళ్ళడానికి పర్మిషనడిగారు. అప్పుడిలా వేలిముద్రలతో వేధించడాలు, ‘ఆధారా’లతో సహా అటకాయించడాలు లేవు. ఆఫీసుకి అవసరమొస్తే అర్ధరాత్రి వరకూ వుండైనా పనిపూర్తిచేసే నిబద్ధత, మనకి అవసరమొస్తే అర్ధాంతరంగా అంతర్ధానమవ్వడానికి కావలసిన స్వేచ్ఛ... ఇవన్నీ వుండేవి.
ఎట్టకేలకి ఇద్దరం కలక్ట్రాఫీసునుంచి నాలుగు కాళ్ళనీ వుపయోగించి జగదాంబ జంక్షన్ చేరుకున్నాం. అక్కణ్ణించి విశాలాక్షినగర్ వెళ్ళడానికి రోజుకి రెండే బస్సులుండేవి. మొత్తానికి కావలసిన బస్సు రాగానే ఎక్కి స్థిరపడిపోయాం. ఎందుకంటే చిట్టచివరి బస్టాప్ అదే!
పోలీస్ క్వార్టర్స్ రాగానే బస్సంతా ఖాళీ అయిపోయింది. మేం నలుగురం మిగిలాం. అటూయిటూ కొండలు. మధ్యలో దారి. ఎదురుగా ఎగిసిపడే కెరటాలతో సముద్రం. ఎక్కడా మనుషుల జాడలేదు. గులకరాళ్ళు పలుగుదేరి వున్నాయి. బస్సు కుదిపిపడేస్తోంటే ఎగిరెగిరి పడిపోతున్నాం.
‘లాస్టాప్!’ అని కరుగ్గా, చిరాగ్గా అరిచిన కండక్టర్ని చూసి భయంగా దిగిపోయాం. అక్కడిదాకా వచ్చినందుకు విసుగ్గావుందతనికి. లేకపోతే మధ్యలోనే బస్సుని వెనక్కి తిప్పుకుపోయేవార్ట!
దిగిన తరవాత ‘ఇదిగో ఇక్కడే! వచ్చేశాం!’ అంటూ అరకిలోమీటర్ నడిపించారు నాన్నగారు. రోడ్డు చివరిదాకా వచ్చిన తరవాత అక్కణ్ణుంచి బీచ్ రోడ్డు ప్రారంభమైంది. కొండ అంచున నాలుగొందల గజాల ఖాళీజాగాలో నిలబడి ‘ఇదేరా, మన స్థలం!’ అన్నారు.
‘ఏదీ? ఇదా?’ అంటూ ఆశ్చర్యపడిపోయాను. అంత నిర్జన ప్రదేశంలో కొండలమాటున గుట్టుగా గుట్టలతో నిండిన ఆ స్థలాన్ని చూస్తోంటే భయం, అభద్రతాభావం, నిస్సత్తువ కలిగాయి.
‘అవున్నాన్నా! రెవెన్యూ డిపార్ట్మెంట్ ఎంప్లాయిస్ అందరికీ ఇచ్చిన కోలనీ ఇది. మనకి ఈ ముక్కొచ్చింది. రెండుమూడు నెలల్లో కట్టడం మొదలెడతాం ఇల్లు!’ అన్నారు.
చెప్పొద్దూ, నాకైతే అస్సలు నచ్చలేదు. ఎవరుంటారు అలాంటిచోట? ఇంటికొచ్చాక అన్నయ్యతో వర్ణించి, వర్ణించి చెప్పేదాకా నాకు మనసు కుదుటపళ్ళేదు.
మొత్తానికి అనుకున్నట్టుగానే నానాయాతనా పడి, అప్పోసప్పో చేసి ఇల్లుకట్టేశారు. బెడ్రూమ్ కిటికీలోంచి చూస్తోంటే సముద్రకెరటాలు ఎగురుతూ కనబడేవి. డాబామీదకెళితే విపరీతమైన గాలి మనిషిని ఎత్తేస్తూవుండేది.
ఇవన్నీ చూసిన తరవాత మేఁవిద్దరం కాస్త శాంతించాం. పెద్ద పోర్టికో కట్టేసుకుని, ఇల్లు చిన్నది కట్టుకున్నాం. ఒకేసారి నాలుగైదు కార్లు పట్టేసేంత విశాలమైన పోర్టికో అది.
వేసంకాలం మధ్యానాలన్నీ అక్కడే బతికెయ్యచ్చు. అప్పుడే కొత్తగా ఆకులు తొడిగిన కొబ్బరిచెట్లు అన్ని దిక్కుల్లోనూ దిక్పాలకుల్లా కనబడుతున్నాయి. ప్రహారీగోడంతా తెల్లటి సున్నంతో అంగోస్త్రంలా మెరుస్తోంది. మధ్యలో బొమ్మరిల్లులాంటి ఇల్లేమో అమ్మలా అమాయకంగాను, నాన్నలా ఆప్యాయంగానూ కనబడుతోంది.
అనుకున్న ప్రకారం అన్నీ పూర్తయ్యేసరికి గృహప్రవేశం దగ్గరపడింది. ముగ్గురు మేనత్తలు, పిన్ని, బాబాయ్, ఇద్దరు మేనమామలు, అత్తయ్యలు, పెద్దనాన్నా పెద్దమ్మలు, మేనల్లుళ్ళు..ఇలా అందర్నీ ఆహ్వానించి ఉన్నంతలో ఉన్నతంగా చేసిన వేడుక అది.
బాబాయ్ చెప్పే కబుర్లతో పగలూరాత్రీ తెలిసేది కాదు. పెద్దత్తయ్య పేల్చే జోకులకి పగలబడి నవ్వుతోంటే రాత్రోపగలో అర్ధమయ్యేది కాదు.
సందడిగా సాగిన సంబరంలో సముద్రం కూడా తనదైన ముద్రవేసుకుంది. వచ్చిన వాళ్ళందరూ గంటలతరబడి కెరటాల్లో కేరింతలు కొడుతూ స్నానాలు చేశారు. సాగరంతో ప్రణయాన్ని సాగించే పున్నమి చంద్రుడు మా కుర్రాళ్ళందరికీ కునుకు లేకండా చేశాడు. బీచ్ రోడ్డులో పదిమందికి పైగా రాత్రి ఒంటిగంటప్పుడు వెర్రెక్కించే వెన్నెల్లో కబుర్లాడుకుంటూ నడుచుకెళ్ళడం జన్మలో మర్చిపోలేని అనుభూతి.
కొబ్బరిచెట్లు పగలూరాత్రీ ఎప్పుడూ మెలకువగానే వుండి ఇంటికొచ్చేవాళ్ళందర్నీ పలకరించేవి. రాత్రిపూట కాస్త అప్రమత్తంగా వుండమనేమో, అప్పుడప్పుడు ఒక బొండాం దబ్బునపడి అందర్నీ మేలుకొలిపేది.
ఇనపగేటు తీసుకుని లోపలికి అడుగెట్టగానే కుడిపక్క కాళ్ళకీ, నోళ్ళకీ నీళ్ళిచ్చే నిండైన బావి. దానెదురుగా పొట్టిగా, గునగునలాడుతూ నందివర్ధనంచెట్టు. తెల్లారేసరికి బోల్డన్ని పువ్వులు పూసేసి నుయ్యితో కబుర్లాడుతూ వుండేది. నాన్నగారు రాగానే పూలన్నీ ఇచ్చేసి కేవలం ఆకులతో మళ్ళీ పచ్చగా మారిపోయేది. వాళ్ళిద్దరికీ అదొక ‘పూలకింత!’
తెల్లారే అయిదింటికి నూతిగట్టున నాన్నగారు చేసే జలజలారావాలు, బుడుంగుమని నీటిలో బకెట్టు మునిగిన శబ్దాలు, బుద్ధిగా ప్రకృతి చేసే నిశ్శబ్దాలు....ఇవన్నీ మాకు నిద్రలో తియ్యటికలల్లా తోచేవి. తలస్నానం చేసేవారు రోజూ.
ఆ ఇల్లు చాలా సందళ్ళనీ, సంబరాలనీ చూసింది. చెల్లి పెళ్ళి, అన్నయ్య పెళ్ళి, అమ్మానాన్నల షష్టిపూర్తి, మావీధి రామాలయం కల్యాణాలు, శివరాత్రి జాగారాలు, పిల్లల అక్షరాభ్యాసాలు...ఇలా ఎన్నో వేడుకలకి నిలువెత్తు సాక్ష్యం!
ఇంటికెవరైనా వస్తే ఆ పోర్టికోలోనే పడక్కుర్చీల్లో కూర్చుని, మడతమంచాల మీద చేరి గంటలకొద్దీ హాయిగా కబుర్లు చెప్పుకోవడమే కాదు, తుఫానులు, పెనుగాలులు కూడా అప్పుడప్పుడు ‘హాయ్’ చెప్పేవి.
తద్దినాలకు కలిసిన ప్రతిసారీ కార్యక్రమం పూర్తయిన తరవాత సాయంత్రం కాస్త చల్లబడగానే కుటుంబమంతా కలిసి ఎదురుగా ఉన్న సముద్రానికెళ్లి వయసు మర్చిపోయేవాళ్లం.
వేసవిలో డాబామీద పడుకుంటే సముద్రపు గాలికి నానా యాగీ అయ్యేది. పొద్దున్న లేచి చూసుకుంటే కట్టుకున్న లుంగీలన్నీ పక్కింటి డాబాలమీదకి ఎగిరిపోయేవి.
డాబామీదకెళితే పోర్టికో మీదకి పాకిన సన్నజాజితీగ మమ్మల్ని చూసీచూడనట్టు మొహమాటంగా దాగుడుమూతలాడేది. మొగ్గలు మాత్రం వాటి పరిమళంతో ఉనికిని పట్టిచ్చేసేవి. అక్కడికెడితే చుక్కల్ని చూస్తూ గడిపిన లెక్కలేనన్ని రాత్రులు, వెన్నెల్ని మేస్తూ వేసారిపోయిన యవ్వనానుభూతులు అనేకంగా పలకరిస్తాయి.
నీళ్ళట్యాంకు గోడకానుకుని నేను రాసిన మొట్టమొదటి ప్రేమలేఖ ఇంకా మొన్నీమధ్యనే రాసినట్టనిపిస్తోంది. అదింకా ఇప్పటికీ చదువుతూనే వుంది తను, ఇరవయ్యేళ్ళు దాటిన కొడుకులిద్దరూ ఆటపట్టిస్తున్నాసరే!
అంతాబావుంటే అది జీవితమెందుకవుతుంది? అనారోగ్యాన్ని ఎదుర్కోలేని అమ్మ అరవయ్యేళ్ళకే ఆయువు చాలించింది. అర్ధాంతరంగా తీసుకుపోవడంలో అంతరార్ధం ఏ దేవుడూ మనకి చెప్పడు. మనం అన్వయించుకోవలసిందే!
అమ్మలేకపోతే నాన్న ఒంటరైపోతారనుకున్నాం. కానీ ఆయన ఆయింట్లో ఒక్కరూ ఏడేళ్ళున్నారు. ఇల్లంతా మొక్కలు, కుక్కలతో దత్తాత్రేయుడిలా గడిపేశారు. అవన్నీ మధ్యాన్నం పన్నెండయ్యేటప్పటికి కుక్కర్ విజిల్ కోసం విజిలెంట్ గా వేచిచూసేవి. వెయిట్ ఎప్పుడు తీస్తారా అని వెయిట్ చేస్తూండేవి.
వాటి ఆకలి తీర్చడం, తన కడుపునిండిందనుకోవడం... ఇలా చాలాకాలం ఏకాంతజీవనం గడిపిన ఆయన్ని మావద్దకు తీసుకురావడం చాలా కష్టమైపోయింది.
ఎప్పుడైనా ఆయింటి ప్రస్తావన వస్తే ‘నాకక్కడ వుండాలనుందిరా!’ అంటూ వుండేవారు. అందుకే అటెళ్ళినప్పుడు కాసేపలా సేదతీరితే తల్లి రెక్కలమాటున దాగిన పక్షిపిల్లలాంటి అనుభూతి!
నాన్నగారు మతిభ్రమణంతో ఒక ఏడాదిపాటు ఇబ్బంది పడి, ఏడేళ్లక్రితం డిసెంబర్లో కాలం చేశారు. ఆయన ఆ ఇల్లు కడుతున్నప్పుడు నేను రెండో ఏడు మెడిసిన్ చదువుతుండేవాణ్ణి. మేస్త్రీలు డబ్బు కోసం ఇంటికి రావడం, ‘ఇస్తా లక్ష్మీనారాయణ, చూస్తున్నావుగా ఎంతిబ్బందిగా ఉందో? ఒక వారంలో సర్దుతాను. కాస్త ఓపిక పట్టు!’ అనడం చాలాసార్లు విన్నాం.
ఎంతో మమకారంతో కట్టుకున్న ఆయింట్లో ఆయన పరిపూర్ణమైన జీవనం సాగించారు. పనసకాయలు కోసి పొట్టు కొట్టడం, కొబ్బరిబొండాలు స్వయంగా వలిచి, పిల్లలందరికీ పంపించడం, అరటిగెల వెయ్యగానే మనవడో, మనవరాలో పుట్టినట్టు సంబరపడిపోవడం.. ఇవన్నీ చూశాం.
ఇప్పుడు ఆయింటి గుమ్మంలో అడుగుపెట్టగానే ఏ చెట్టుకో పాదు చేస్తున్న నాన్నగారు ‘రారా జగదీ! ఇదేనా రావడం?’ అని పలకరిస్తున్నట్టే అనిపిస్తుంది.
‘ఉంటారా రాత్రికి? వంట చేసేస్తా!’ అంటూ మనవల్ని చూస్తూ అమ్మ పులకరిస్తున్నట్టే ఉంటుంది.
ఆ జ్ఞాపకాల తడి సముద్రంలాంటిది. ఇంకిపోయేది కాదు.
......సేకరణ
అర్హత(కథ ) 🌹🌹🌹🌹
రచన : జీడిగుంట నరసింహ మూర్తి
(ఆగస్టు 2026 సహరి మాస పత్రికలో ప్రచురణ )
“ఏరా… ఈరోజు ఫోన్ చేయలేదేంటి? అంత బిజీగా ఉన్నావా?” అడిగాడు శేషగిరి .
అతని స్వరం కొంచెం కటువుగా అనిపించినా, లోపల మాత్రం తమ్ముడి మీద ఆప్యాయత తొంగిచూస్తూనే ఉంది.
“పిల్ల పెళ్లి చేయాలి కదా అన్నయ్యా !ఊరు చివరలో అప్పుడెప్పుడో కొన్న స్థలాన్ని అమ్మేయాలని వాళ్ల చుట్టూ, వీళ్ల చుట్టూ తిరగడంతోనే సరిపోతోంది. నెల రోజులుగా ఎవరికీ ఫోన్ చేయడం కుదర లేదు...” అన్నాడు వాసు మృదువుగా.
“నువ్వు ఫోన్ చేయకపోతే నాకు ఏదో లోటు అనిపిస్తుందిరా . ఆ స్థలం విషయం నాకు కూడా చెబితే తెలిసిన వాళ్లతో మాట్లాడి బేరం కుదురుస్తాను కదా. ఇంట్లో పెళ్లి వ్యవహారం అంత రహస్యంగా చేయాల్సిన అవసరం ఏముంది? మన రెండవ వాడు కూడా అంతే. ఈరోజుల్లో ఇంటికొచ్చి వెడ్డింగ్ కార్డు ఇచ్చేంతవరకు వాళ్ల పిల్లల పెళ్లిళ్లు కుదిరినట్టు తెలుసుకోలేక పోతున్నాం. రోజూ మాట్లాడుకుంటూ ఉంటాం కానీ ఆ ప్రస్తావన రాదు. వాడి దారిలోనే నువ్వు కూడా వెళ్తున్నట్టుగా ఉంది...” అన్నాడు శేషగిరి కొద్దిగా నిష్టూరంగానే.
“అయ్యో అలాంటిది ఏమీ లేదు. ఈ మధ్య ఏ సంబంధమూ కలిసిరాక పోవడంతో ముందే అందరికీ చెప్పుకుని నగుబాటు కావడం ఎందుకు అనిపించి మౌనం వహించాల్సి వస్తోంది. ఎన్నో సంబంధాలు వచ్చి చివరి నిమిషంలో వెనక్కి వెళ్లిపోయేవి . ప్రతి సారి ఆశలు పెంచుకోవడం, మళ్లీ నిరాశతో కుంగిపోవడం మాకు అలవాటైపోయింది. ఒకసారి ఖరారయ్యేంతవరకు ఎవరికీ చెప్పకూడదని అనుకున్నాము. అంతే కానీ మాకు నీకన్నా చెప్పుకోవడానికి ఎవరున్నారు చెప్పు ?” అన్నాడు వాసు ఇబ్బందిగా చూస్తూ.
కానీ వాసు మాటలు శేషగిరిని సంతృప్తి పరచలేకపోయాయి. పైపెచ్చు అది మరింత అపార్ధం పాలు చేసింది.
అన్నగారు తన గురించి మనసులో ఏమనుకున్నాడో కానీ, క్రమంగా మాట్లాడటం తగ్గించేశాడు. ఫోన్ చేసినా మాటలు రెండు నిమిషాల్లో ముగిసేవి. ఆ మార్పు గమనించిన వాసు కూడా ధైర్యం చేసి ముందడుగు వేయలేకపోయాడు. దాంతో ఒకప్పుడు రోజుకు రెండు సార్లయినా మాట్లాడుకోకపోతే తోచని వాళ్ల మధ్య నెలలు నెలలు గడిచిపోయాయి.
అదృష్టవశాత్తూ వాసు కూతురు సుభాషిణికి మంచి సంబంధం కుదిరింది. అబ్బాయి మంచి ఉద్యోగం చేస్తున్నాడు. ఎన్నో నిరాశల తర్వాత వచ్చిన ఈ శుభవార్త ఇంట్లో ఆనందాన్ని నింపింది.
సంబంధం కుదిరినట్టు అన్నగారికి చెప్పాడు వాసు. అవతలవైపు నుండి “మంచిది “ అంటూ ముక్తసరిగా సమాధానం వచ్చింది అంతే.
ఒక రోజు పెళ్లి ఏర్పాట్ల గురించి మాట్లాడుతుండగా వాసు భార్య చెప్పింది.
“ఏమండీ !అన్నదమ్ముల మధ్య చిన్నచిన్న అపార్థాలు రావచ్చు. కానీ పెళ్లి అనేది కుటుంబ పండుగ. శుభలేఖల్లో అన్నయ్యగారు, వదినగారి పేర్లు వేయించండి. వాళ్లు మన పెద్దలు. తండ్రి స్థానంలో ఉన్నారు. మనం ఇచ్చే గౌరవం తగ్గకూడదు”అంది.
మొదట వాసు కొంత సందిగ్ధంలో పడ్డాడు. కానీ భార్య మాటల్లోని సంస్కారం అతన్ని ఆలోచింపజేసింది. చివరకు ఎవరికీ చెప్పకుండా ఆ విషయాన్ని రహస్యంగా ఉంచి శుభలేఖలను శేషగిరి దంపతుల పేర్లతో అచ్చు వేయించాడు.
శుభలేఖలు చేతికి వచ్చిన రోజు మొదటి కార్డును గుడిలో స్వామివారికి సమర్పించి పూజ చేయించాడు. రెండో కార్డును జాగ్రత్తగా కవర్లో పెట్టుకుని అన్నగారింటికి బయలుదేరాడు.
కిటికీలోంచి చేతిలో కార్డులతో వస్తున్న తమ్ముడిని చూసిన శేషగిరి మనసులో ఎన్నో ఆలోచనలు మెదిలాయి.
“అవును... చేస్తున్నది ఆడపిల్ల పెళ్లి. సొంత అన్నదమ్ములను ఈ సమయంలో దూరం చేసుకుంటే రేపు ఏదైనా ఊహించని కష్టం వస్తే అండగా నిలబడే వాళ్లు ఎవరుంటారు? అందుకే ఇష్టం లేకపోయినా వచ్చి ఉంటాడు...” అని అనుకున్నాడు.
వాళ్ల మధ్య జన్మజన్మల శత్రుత్వం లేదు. ఆస్తి తగాదాలు లేవు. కేవలం మాటల లోపం మాత్రమే.
వదినగారు లోపలికి వెళ్లి మంచినీళ్లు తీసుకొచ్చి ఇచ్చింది.
“అదే అన్నయ్యా. మన సుభాషిణికి సంబంధాలు కుదరడం చాలా కష్టమైపోయింది. కుదిరినట్టే కుదిరి వెనక్కి వెళ్లిపోయేవి. ఆ బాధల్లో ఎవరితోనూ మనసు విప్పి మాట్లాడలేని పరిస్థితి. అంతే కానీ నీతో కావాలని మాట్లాడకపోవడం కాదు. ఇంటికి నువ్వే కదా పెద్ద. రెండవ అన్నయ్య ఉద్యోగ రీత్యా వేరే స్టేట్లో ఉంటున్నాడు.వాడు పెళ్ళికి వస్తే చాలనుకునే పరిస్థితి. ఎన్నో పూజలు, వ్రతాలు చేసిన ఫలితమో ఏమో మొత్తానికి ఈ సంబంధం కుదిరింది. తనని కూడా తీసుకొద్దామనుకున్నాను. కానీ ముందుగా నేను వచ్చి మీ ఆశీర్వాదం తీసుకోవాలని అనిపించింది...” అంటూ కార్డు అందించాడు వాసు.
శేషగిరి కార్డు తెరిచి చూశాడు.
ఒక్క క్షణం అతని కళ్లకు నమ్మశక్యం కాలేదు.
పెళ్లి ఆహ్వాన పత్రికపై పెద్ద అక్షరాలతో తన పేరు, భార్య పేరు కనిపించాయి.
ఆ క్షణంలో అతని గొంతు పూడుకుపోయింది.
కార్డు చేతిలో పట్టుకుని అలాగే కూర్చున్నాడు.
మనసు ఒక్కసారిగా చాలా ఏళ్ల వెనక్కి వెళ్లిపోయింది.
తండ్రి చనిపోయిన తర్వాత తమ్ముళ్ళు ఇద్దరికీ తానే అండగా నిలిచిన రోజులు గుర్తొచ్చాయి. వాళ్ల చదువులు, ఉద్యోగాలు, పెళ్లిళ్లు—అన్నింటిలోనూ తన వంతు బాధ్యత నిర్వర్తించిన సందర్భాలు కళ్లముందు మెదిలాయి. చిన్నప్పుడు ఏ చిన్న పని వచ్చినా “అన్నయ్యా” అంటూ తన వెంట తిరిగే వాడు వాసు.
అలాంటి తమ్ముడితో కొన్ని నెలలు మాట్లాడకుండా ఉండిపోయిన తన మొండితనం మీద అతనికే సిగ్గేసింది.
“మనుషులు దూరమవడానికి పెద్ద కారణాలు అవసరం లేదు. చిన్న చిన్న మౌనాలే పెద్ద గోడలుగా మారిపోతాయి...” అనుకున్నాడు మనసులో.
“మా పేర్లు ఎందుకురా బాబూ మొత్తం కష్టం పడింది మీరే. ఇందులో మా పాత్ర ఈశన్మాతరం లేదు . ఆ బాధలేవో వాడే పడతాడులే అని తెలిసే నిర్లక్ష్యం చేశాం. ఇంటి పెద్దగా మీకు మాట సాయం కూడా చేయలేకపోయాం. చిన్నప్పుడు ఏదో ఆదుకున్నాం అంటే అది వేరు. అందరమూ ఒకే ఇంట్లో ఉండేవాళ్లం కాబట్టి ఒకరి మీద ఒకరికి అనుబంధం ఉంటుంది. సంసార బంధాల్లో ఇరుక్కున్నవాళ్ళకు ఎదురయ్యే సమస్యలకు కుటుంబ పెద్ద వెన్నుదన్ను ఉంటేనే వాళ్ళ బంధాలు కలకాలం నిలుస్తాయి. కానీ నీ విషయంలో మేము చేసిన పనికి చూపిన అలసత్వానికి సిగ్గుపడాల్సి వస్తోంది. ఈ పురస్కారం అందుకోవడానికి మాకు ఏ మాత్రం అర్హత లేదు. పైగా నా కన్నా ఎనిమిదేళ్లు చిన్నవాడివి. ఈ పెళ్ళికి పెద్దగా నువ్వు మాకు కలిపిస్తున్న అర్హతకు మేము ఎంతమాత్రమూ తగం అని నా భావన. ఇలా ఏ ఇంట్లోనూ పెద్ద అన్నగారు చేయకూడని తప్పు మేము చేశాం. మనసులో పెట్టుకోకుండా మమ్మల్ని క్షమించరా?” అంటూ శేషగిరి తమ్ముడి చేతులు పట్టుకున్నాడు శేషగిరి ఆర్ద్రత నిండిన కళ్ళతో .
వదినగారి కళ్లూ చెమ్మగిల్లాయి.
“చూశారా... మనం అతన్ని నిర్లక్ష్యం చేసినా మన గురించి ఎంత గొప్పగా ఆలోచించాడు?
ఈరోజుల్లో ఇటువంటి వారు ఎక్కడైనా ఉంటారా ? ఉపయోగపడాల్సిన సమయంలో మనం పొరపాటు చేశాం...” అంటూ వదినగారు పశ్చాత్తాప మనసుతో తలవంచుకుంది.
“అన్నయ్యా, జీవితంలో కొన్నిసార్లు మన బాధలతో మనమే అంతగా నిండిపోతాం. మనల్ని ప్రేమించే వాళ్లకు కూడా మనసు విప్పి చెప్పలేని పరిస్థితి వస్తుంది. అంతే కానీ ప్రేమ తగ్గిపోదు. ఇందులో మీ లోపం ఏమీ లేదు. నేనే మీకు సరైన పద్దతిలో తెలియపరచలేదని అనుకుంటున్నాను. పైగా నీకు బీపీ, సుగర్లు ఉన్నాయి. ఈ పరిస్థితుల్లో నిన్ను నా వెంట తిప్పుకుని ఇబ్బంది పెట్టడం నాకు ఇష్టం లేదు. పెళ్లి సమయంలో నువ్వు నా పక్కన నిలబడితే చాలు. అంతకంటే నాకు కావాల్సింది ఏమీ లేదు.”అంటూ అన్నగారిని సముదాయించి లేవబోతూ ఉంటే “లేదురా !ఈ పెళ్లి నీ కూతురిది మాత్రమే కాదు. మన ఇంటి పండగ. ఇక నుంచి అన్ని పనులూ మనం కలిసి చూసుకుందాం “అని ఆనందంగా చెపుతూ తమ్ముడిని కౌగిలించుకున్నాడు శేషగిరి.
ఆ కౌగిలిలో నెలల తరబడి పేరుకుపోయిన మౌనం కరిగిపోయింది. అపార్థాలు చెదిరిపోయాయి.
ఇద్దరి కళ్లలోనూ ఆనందబాష్పాలు మెరిశాయి.
వాసు వీడ్కోలు చెప్పి బయలుదేరాడు. అతను వీధి మలుపు తిరిగేంతవరకు శేషగిరి దంపతులు గుమ్మం దగ్గరే నిలబడి చూస్తూ ఉన్నారు .
అప్పుడు అతనికి ఒక విషయం స్పష్టంగా అర్థమైంది.
బంధాలను నిలబెట్టేది రక్తసంబంధం మాత్రమే కాదు. పరస్పరం ఒక అడుగు ముందుకు వేసే మనసు. క్షమాపణ కోరడానికి అర్హత అవసరం లేదు. క్షమించడానికి కూడా అర్హత అవసరం లేదు. ప్రేమ ఉన్న చోట అర్హత అనే ప్రశ్నే ఉండదు.
అందుకే కుటుంబాలను నిలబెట్టేవి ధనం, హోదా, అహంకారం కావు. సమయం వచ్చినప్పుడు “నువ్వు మా వాడివి” అని చెప్పగల విశాల హృదయం మాత్రమే.
– సమాప్తం –
కథ
అతిథి
– కర్లపాలెం హనుమంతరావు
ఆదివారం ఉదయం. వంటింట్లో పెనం మీద దోసెలు కాలుతున్న వాసన ఇంటిని నోరూరిస్తుంది. కిటికీ పక్కన కూర్చున్న చింటూ బయటికి చూస్తూ అన్నాడు.
“నాన్నా… పిల్లి పిట్టను పట్టుకొచ్చింది!”
అతని అరుపుతో అందరూ అటు తిరిగారు.
వాకిటి తలుపు దగ్గర మిన్నీ నోట్లో ఒక చిన్న పిచ్చుక ఉంది. పిట్ట రెక్కలు కొద్దిగా కదులుతున్నాయి. రక్తం కనిపించలేదు.
చింటూ లేచి తలుపు వైపు వెళ్లబోయాడు.
“ఆగు!” అన్నాడు నాన్న.
“నాన్నా… పిచ్చుకను కాపాడాలి!”
“మన చేతుల్లో లేదు. పిల్లి పట్టుకున్న పిట్ట అది. ప్రకృతి పని ప్రకృతిదే.”
“కానీ అది ఇంకా బతికే ఉంది కదా!”
నాన్న ఏదో చెప్పబోయాడు. అంతలో మిన్నీ పిట్టను నోట్లోంచి నెమ్మదిగా కింద పెట్టింది. పాత డోర్మ్యాట్ మీద పిట్ట పడిపోయింది. మిన్నీ ఒక్కసారి దాన్ని చూసి, ఏమీ జరగనట్టుగా లోపలికి వెళ్లిపోయింది.
అందరూ తలుపు దగ్గర చేరారు.
పిట్ట కదలడం లేదు. గుండె కొట్టుకున్నట్టుగా ఛాతీ మాత్రం పైకీ కిందికీ కదులుతోంది.
“దీనికి ఎగరడం రాదా?” చింటూ అడిగాడు.
“దెబ్బ తగిలిందేమో,” అంది చెల్లెలు సిరి.
నాన్న కాస్త దూరంగా నిలబడి, “దగ్గరకు వెళ్లొద్దు. భయపెడితే చచ్చిపోవచ్చు,” అన్నాడు.
పిట్ట హాల్లో చుట్టూ తిరిగింది. సోఫా మీదుగా, టీవీ మీదుగా, చివరికి గోడకు వేలాడుతున్న అమ్మ పెయింటింగ్ దగ్గర కాసేపు ఆగి మళ్లీ ఎగిరింది.
చింటూ, సిరి దాని వెంట పరుగెత్తారు.
అమ్మ చనిపోయి ఆరు నెలలు అయ్యింది. కానీ ఇంట్లో ఆమె తిరుగుతున్నట్లే ఉంది. గోడ మీద ఫొటో, అలమారలో చీరలు, వంటింట్లో ఆమె చేత్తో పెట్టిన పచ్చళ్లు, హాల్లో మూలన ఆమెకు ఎంతో ఇష్టమైన తంబుర... అన్ని గదుల్లో ఆమె అడుగుల సవ్వడులే.
ఆ రోజు అమ్మ జ్ఞాపకార్థం గోదావరి ఒడ్డుకు వెళ్లి ఆమె అస్థికలు కలపాలని నాన్న నిర్ణయించాడు.
“సంప్రదాయం మానకూడదు,” అని నాన్న ఉద్దేశం.
కానీ పిట్ట మాత్రం బైటకు వెళ్లడం లేదు.
మధ్యాహ్నం అందరం గోదావరి ఒడ్డుకు వెళ్ళారు.
అమ్మకు నీళ్లంటే చాలా ఇష్టం. వర్షాకాలంలో గోదావరి ఉప్పొంగితే అందరం భయపడుతుంటే, ఆమె మాత్రం ఒడ్డున నిలబడి చూస్తూ ఉండేది గంభీరంగా. “నీళ్లు ఎటు వైపు ప్రవహించినా చివరికి సముద్రానికే కదా చేరతాయి,” అనేది.
నాన్న ఆమె చితాభస్మం ఉన్న చిన్న కలశాన్ని చేతిలో పట్టుకున్నాడు.
“ఒక్కొక్కరు కొంచెం కొంచెం తీసుకుని నీళ్లలో కలపండి,” అన్నాడు.
చింటూ చేతిలోకి వచ్చిన తెల్లటి పొడిని చూసాడు. “ఇది అమ్మేనా?”
నాన్న ఏమీ మాట్లాడలేదు.
సిరి కన్నీళ్లు తుడుచుకుంది.
చింటూ వేళ్ల మధ్య ఉన్న ఆ పొడిని నెమ్మదిగా నీటిలోకి వదిలాడు. “అమ్మకు ఈత వచ్చు కదా. ఇప్పుడు ఎక్కడికి వెళుతుంది ?” అని తండ్రిని అడిగాడు. బదులు లేదు. ఆయన విన్నాడో లేదో తెలియదు.
సాయంత్రం ఇంటికి వచ్చేసరికి పిట్ట ఇంకా హాల్లోనే ఉంది.
అమ్మ తంబుర మీద కూర్చుంది. చిన్న తల అటూ ఇటూ తిప్పుకుంటోంది.
“ఇది ఇంకా ఎందుకు పోలేదు?” అన్నాడు నాన్న చిరాకు దాచుకుంటూ.
“దీనికి మన ఇల్లు నచ్చింది కాబోలు ,” అంది సిరి.
“పిట్టలకు ఇల్లు ఉండదు.” అన్నాడు నాన్న.
“అమ్మకు ఉండేదా?”సిరి ఎదురు ప్రశ్న.
నాన్న ఒక్కసారిగా నిశ్శబ్దమయిపోయాడు.
చింటూ సిరివైపు చూశాడు. ఆమె కూడా ఏమీ మాట్లాడలేదు.
కొద్దిసేపటి తర్వాత నాన్న వంటగదిలోంచి కొంచెం బియ్యం, నువ్వులు తీసుకొచ్చి నేలమీద చల్లాడు.
“అతిథి వచ్చింది కదా. ఆకలితో పంపకూడదు.”
నాన్న మాటలకు చింటూ నవ్వాడు.
“ప్రకృతి పని ప్రకృతే చేస్తుందని ఇప్పుడే అన్నావు కదా నాన్నా !”
నాన్న నిదానంగా తల పంకించి అన్నాడు, “ప్రకృతికి మనకన్నా ఎక్కువ పనులుంటాయి. మన పని మనమే చేసుకోవాలి.”
పిట్ట కిందికి దిగి రెండు గింజలు తింది. మళ్లీ తంబుర మీదికి వెళ్లి కూర్చుంది.
ఆ రాత్రి కూడా అది ఇల్లు కదల్లేదు. నిద్రపోయే ముందు సిరి, చింటూ మంచం మీదికి వచ్చి కూర్చుంది.
“చింటూ !…”
“ఏంటి సిరీ ?”
“ఈ పిట్ట అమ్మ ఏమో?”
చింటూ కాసేపు మౌనంగా ఉండిపోయాడు. “అమ్మ అయితే మనల్ని గుర్తుపడుతుంది కదా.”
“గుర్తుపట్టకపోతే?”
“అమ్మ మనల్ని మర్చిపోదు.”
“ఎలా చెప్తావు?”
చింటూ సమాధానం చెప్పలేక పోయాడు.
పిట్ట రెక్కలు కొట్టుకుంటూ పిల్లల వంకే చూస్తోంది.
సిరి ముఖం నిండా దుప్పటి కప్పేసుకుంది.
మర్నాడు రాత్రి పడుకునే ముందు చింటూతో అంది సిరి, “నాకు రాత్రి కల వచ్చింది. అమ్మ పిట్టలా మనింటికి వచ్చిందంట.”
“అమ్మ ఏం చెప్పింది?”ఆత్రుతగాఅడిగాడు చింటూ
“గుర్తులేదురా.” అని పెదాలు చప్పరించింది సిరి.
ఇద్దరూ కాసేపు చీకట్లో మాట్లాడకుండా పడుకుండిపోయారు.
మరుసటి రోజు పొద్దున ఇంట్లోకి చల్లగాలి దూసుకొచ్చింది. నాన్న రాత్రి హాల్లో కిటికీలన్నీ తెరిచే ఉంచాడు కాబోలు. .
ఎక్కిళ్ళు దిగమింగుకుంటూ అడిగిన సిరి ఎత్తుకుని కన్నీళ్ళు తుడుస్తూ అనునయంగా అన్నాడు నాన్న “అతిథులు చెప్పి రారు గదా తల్లీ! అలాగే వెళ్ళే ముందు చెప్పరు. అట్లాగని ఏడిస్తే ఎట్లా?"
ఉబికే కన్నీళ్ళను ఆపుకుంటూ వంటగది తలుపు దగ్గర కూర్చుని బయటికి చూస్తోన్న మిన్నీ దగ్గరకు వెళ్లి అడిగాడు చింటూ “నిన్న నువ్వే కదా బుల్లి పిచ్చుకను తీసుకొచ్చింది…?”
మిన్నీ తోక ఊపింది.
అప్పుడే బయట గుమ్మం దగ్గర పిట్టల కిలకిల వినిపించింది.
సిరి పరుగెత్తి తలుపు తెరిచింది.
వాకిట్లో రెండు పిచ్చుకలు కూర్చున్నాయి. ఒకటి ఎగిరిపోయింది. ఇంకొకటి మాత్రం కాసేపు ఇంట్లోకి చూసి, రెక్కలు టపటపలాడించింది .
“అన్నయ్యా… అది మళ్లీ వచ్చింది!”
చింటూ బలవంతాన నవ్వాడు. “ఇది అది కాదు సిరీ… దాని అమ్మ అయి ఉంటుంది!”
“అది మన అమ్మ కదా! మరి మన అమ్మకూ అమ్మ ఉంటుందా?”
సిరి ప్రశ్నకు చింటూ దగ్గర సమాధానం ఏమీ లేదు.
నాన్న మాత్రం వంటింటి కిటికీ దగ్గర నిలబడి బయటికి చూస్తూ ఉండిపోయాడు.
అతని కళ్లలో నీళ్లు కనిపించాయి. సిరి అది చూసి అడిగింది—
“నాన్నా… నన్ను ఏడవద్దన్నావు గదా! మరి నువ్వెందుకు ఏడుస్తున్నావు?”
నాన్న వెంటనే ముఖం తిప్పుకున్నాడు. “ఉల్లిపాయలు కోశానురా తల్లీ.”
సిరి చుట్టూ చూసింది. వంటింట్లో ఎక్కడా ఉల్లిపాయలు కనిపించలేదు!
చంద్రగిరి రాజ్యాన్ని రాజశేఖరుడు అనే రాజు పరిపాలిస్తుండేవాడు. అతడు ప్రజలను కన్నబిడ్డల్లా చూసుకునేవాడు. ప్రజలకు ఏ కష్టం రాకుండా ఎల్లప్పుడూ కాపాడేవాడు. అంతేకాదు చక్కని సైనిక వ్యవస్థను ఏర్పాటు చేసి, పరిపాలనలో ఎప్పటికప్పుడు మార్పులు తీసుకొచ్చి ఇరుగు, పొరుగు రాజ్యాలకు ఆదర్శంగా నిలిచాడు. రాజశేఖరుడి పాలనలో చంద్రగిరి రాజ్యం మూడు పువ్వులు, ఆరు కాయలుగా సుభిక్షంగా ఉంది. కానీ.. ఆయన జీవితంలో మాత్రం సంతానం లేదనే వెలితి ఉంది. ఎన్ని నోములు నోచినా, పూజలు చేసినా రాణికి సంతానం కలగలేదు. ఇక సంతానం కలగదని ఎవరినైనా దత్తత తీసుకోవాలని నిర్ణయించుకున్నాడు.
ఈ వార్త ఆ నోటా ఈ నోటా అందరికీ తెలిసింది. దాంతో ఎక్కడెక్కడినుంచో బంధువులంతా రాజశేఖరుడి రాజ్యానికి చేరి నా బిడ్డను తీసుకో, నా బిడ్డను తీసుకో అన్నారు. రాజశేఖరుడు ఎవరినీ నొప్పించలేక అందరూ అంతఃపురంలోనే ఉండండి. తగిన సమయంలో ఎవరిని దత్తత తీసుకోవాలో నిర్ణయిస్తా అని చెప్పాడు.
దత్తత విషయంలో ఏం చేయాలో రాజశేఖరుడికి తోచలేదు. మహామంత్రి అనంతుడిని పిలిచి సలహా కోరాడు. అనంతుడు దీర్ఘంగా ఆలోచించి రాజశేఖరుడికి ఒక సలహా చెప్పాడు. రాజశేఖరుడు సంతోషంతో తన నివాసానికి వెళ్లాడు. వెళ్లేముందు రేపు జరిగే సమావేశంలో ఎవరిని దత్తత తీసుకునేది చెప్తానని చెప్పాడు.
మరుసటి రోజు రాజశేఖరుడు సమావేశ మందిరానికి వచ్చి తన సింహాసనంపై కూర్చున్నాడు. బంధువులంతా ఎవరికి వాళ్లే రేపటి నుంచి ఆ సింహాసనం తమ బిడ్డదే అనుకుని మురిసిపోయారు. రాజశేఖరుడు. నేను ఎవరి బిడ్డను దత్తత తీసుకోవాలన్నా వాళ్లు ఒక పని చేయాలి అన్నాడు. అందరూ సరేనన్నారు. రాజమందిరంలోని మంత్రులు అధికారులు సైనికులు మహారాజు ఏం చెప్తాడోనని కళ్లార్పకుండా చూడసాగారు.
రాజశేఖరుడు మహామంత్రి అనంతుని వంక చూశాడు. అనంతుడు సైనికులను పిలిచి, వాళ్ల బంధువుల్లో ఒక్కొక్కరి చేతిలో ఒక్కో అన్నం ముద్ద పెట్టమన్నాడు. అన్నం ముద్ద చేతుల్లో పెట్టడం పూర్తయ్యాక రాజు మాట్లాడుతూ గంట మోగగానే మీ చేతిలో ఉన్న అన్నం ముద్దతో, ఎదురుగా ఉన్న వేణుగోపాలస్వామి ఆలయంలోకి వెళ్లాలి. అక్కడ దేవుడికి నమస్కరించి మొదట ఎవరు అన్నం ముద్ద తింటారో... వాళ్ల కొడుకునే నేను దత్తత తీసుకుంటాను అని చెప్పాడు. బంధువులంతా ఆత్రుతగా ఉన్నారు. గంట మోగడంతో బంధువులంతా పరుగు పెట్టి వేణుగోపాలస్వామి ఆలయానికి చేరుకున్నారు. లోపల దేవుడికి దండం పెట్టుకుని చేతిలో ఉన్న అన్నం ముద్ద తిన్నారు. కానీ.. నేను ముందు తిన్నానంటే...నేను ముందు అని వాదులాడుకున్నారు. తర్వాత రాజశేఖరుడి నిర్ణయం కోసం సమావేశ మందిరానికి వచ్చారు.
కానీ.. బంధువుల్లో ముకుందయ్య అనే అతను మాత్రం తాను ఆలయంలోకి వెళ్లకుండా ఆలయం బయట ఆకలితో ఉన్న ఒక అవ్వకు అన్నం ముద్ద ఇచ్చాడు. బంధువులంతా ఆలయం నుంచి బయటకు వస్తూ ముకుందయ్యను చూసి వెక్కిరిస్తూ రాజమందిరానికి వెళ్లిపోయారు. ఇదంతా రాజు గమనిస్తూనే ఉన్నాడు.
రాజమందిరానికి చేరుకున్న బంధువులందరినీ కూర్చోమని చెప్పి, రాజశేఖరుడు పూలమాల తీసుకెళ్లి ముకుందయ్య మెడలో వేశాడు. బంధువులు ఆశ్చర్యపోయారు. మీరంతా మీ కొడుకుని దత్తత తీసుకోవాలని ఆరాటపడ్డారు. కానీ ముకుందయ్య ఒక అవ్వ ఆకలి తీరిస్తే చాలనుకున్నాడు. అందుకే తాను మీతో పోటీ పడకుండా అన్నం ముద్దను అవ్వకు ఇచ్చాడు. కాబట్టి ఇతనే గొప్పవాడు. అందుకే అతని కొడుకుని దత్తత తీసుకుంటానని ప్రకటించాడు.
బంధువులంతా తమ తప్పును గ్రహించి ముకుందయ్యను అభినందించారు. రాజశేఖరుడు దత్తత తీసుకున్న అబ్బాయికి జయశేఖరుడు అని పేరుపెట్టి విద్యాబుద్ధులు నేర్పించాడు. తర్వాత రాజ్యాన్ని అప్పగించాడు.
Description: What does it really take to uncover a scam?
On this episode of Unscripted, Meghana Reddy sits down with investigative journalist Sudhakar Reddy Udumula to talk about his career investigating scams, corruption, organised crime, illegal mining, human trafficking and environmental crimes.
From the PNB scam and Panama Papers to his investigations into Red Sanders smuggling, Sudhakar shares what happens behind the headlines, how investigations are built and what it takes to uncover stories that powerful people may not want told.
Watch the full conversation on Unscripted with Meghana Reddy.
⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Introduction 01:45 Who is Sudhakar Reddy Udumula? 04:20 How the investigation began 07:15 The first major scam 10:40 Money trail revealed 14:05 People behind the operation 17:30 How the scam worked 21:10 Shocking evidence 24:45 Investigation challenges 28:20 Political and business connections 32:15 Major revelations 36:40 What investigators discovered 40:25 The biggest unanswered questions 44:10 What happened to the accused? 47:30 Key takeaways
Transcript: (00:00) Hyderabad I got a call saying at 3:00 a.m. in the morning. So there was a murder south central railway family loan. Next ro story is that woman was asking him to have a proper haircut and scolding that was the motive killed them. So moving back to Red Sanders, [music] you spent most of your life >> [music] (00:43) >> film actors lers who was involved. There was a human trafficking, human smuggling, human trafficking. I was thinking a human hair. So it went and took me to the most posh place of Jubilee Hills. entire house that flats worth of 10,000 cr. >> The biggest thing is Panama file s the largest financial [music] (01:31) if you followed Indian investigative journalism over the last three decades. Teli, Panama Papers, PNB, Kali Janadan, Reddi, Red Sanders, the Ukraine war, the biggest stories of our generation [music] and somewhere in the reporting almost always the same name, Sudhaka Reddi Umola, investigations editor, Times of India, 29 years on the beat. (01:57) He started his life studying microbes in the lab. He ended up studying something far more dangerous, money and the people who move it. Today for the first time the stories behind the stories. This is unscripted. Hello sir, thank you so much for joining us on unscripted with me now. Welcome to the podcast sir. (02:17) Uh how are you today? >> Thank you Magna for inviting me here. I'm glad we'll have a nice discussion. >> Yes sir. So you have been to a lot of interviews sir ki I want to start from the beginning me first case guri from microbiology degree to a crime scene can you tell us about your first case sir >> so I'm a microbiologist basically by education microbiology lab college I'm I was streaking in petri plates that's called in petri dishlo we are growing some dand of fungus in that bite. (02:58) So our time low you know everybody has got a ureka moment in their life. So I was thinking on that. So that was my ureka moment where I thought um cup of tea. So my cup of tea is a bigger thing. So I have to get out of and see the world and report the world. That was the day I decided I have to become a journalist. (03:27) Then I I joined Inadu as a stringer. Then came to Dean Chronicle as a crime reporter. Crime reporting first. Very interesting. So Hyderabad first Hyderabad. So I got a call. I was a crime reporter then with Tekken Chronicle. Just young and bing crime reporter. I was just 22 year old then. So then uh what happened? I got a call saying at 3:00 a.m. (03:55) in the morning. So there was a murder. >> Okay. >> Uh in the South Central Railway family. >> So you see today yesterday there was officer wife was murdered. >> This case is also was also similar. So I was having a bike. So I took my bike and went to the crime scene. It was far off in Hyderabad is not that much developed or railway tracks that among that area. (04:30) Um the bodies were found charred. >> Okay. >> All the four four of them husband who is a GM in South Central Railway and wife children also. >> Okay. So that was the first crime scene uh in the sense when I joined Aken Chronicle a crime scene and major crime scene I'll talk about my first crime scene also. So it was like continuous monitoring continuous talking to sources. (04:58) Okay. So next we had a story everybody uh how the servant or help killed South Central Railway family. Next what happened uh next ro story is um haircut led to them murder triggered the murder and haircut and that woman was asking him to have a proper haircut and scolding that was the motive. So this he got offended all the time and u killed them by taking petrol getting all those. (05:39) So that was my headline a different headline than other newspapers. It taught me a lot that first crime scene how to be up to date fast. Uh TV it was not print. So we updated I updated a copy every half an hour till it went to the print till 3:00 a.m. first crime scene. Very interesting. I worked when I was stringing for Inadu in Vijayada doctor wife. Doctor killed his wife. (06:25) injection. So kills. So I have I went to the first crime scene. I have to tell you this because I used to read lot of spy novels. Okay. There is something called in Telugu shadow muabu all these are famous in generation and you guys are novel booklets. Okay. >> So those novels I used to read in which there is a character called bullet. (07:01) >> Okay. >> There is a character called shadow. These people are Indian uh agents [clears throat] >> who go to Pakistan and kill them and do them all those kill them bad people there. >> Okay. >> And come back and all those things. So I was very inspired both by those uh uh things. (07:20) So that made me like crime low like >> interest a curiosity inquisitiveness. So wherever I go to crime scene I observe it more like a cop more than a cop sometimes. So that's how it happened and uh it worked out well in further also time and I was full-time crime reporter for more than 10 years. Yes. Later on I went to health, environment, political, legal and lot of other things, science particular. (07:50) If I go to a crime scene, telephone based crime detection, IP based crime detection, human intelligence, human intelligence, human human intelligence. So because there is something called modi okay the way the crime is committed so I'm so well with that modi by seeing the crime scene for instance Okay. (08:47) Okay. They have their own suppose they carry the blade. Uh so there are lot of modes the way they commit. So for example they attack assault woman. So all those things I've I've seen that I can tell whether Because there is something called (09:30) diatams in so I learned a lot on forensic science, forensic medicine. So crime scene the first crime scene there are multiple crime scenes I visited like terror blast Hyderabad all major terror blast mist blast all high-profile cases. So I've seen a lot. So microbiology I should have just stayed with microbiology any moment because there is a purpose here. (10:07) So we are writing against rowdy cheaters I have written against contract killers politicians who are doing or bureaucrats who are doing wrong. It is not just crime alone. It is corruption anti-corruption. So scams, busting and all those things. So there is a purpose you're doing good for the society and um I always tell this people used to call earlier cup of tea and evalu they're calling it's find your dopamine. (10:34) I always tell this find your dopamine. >> Okay, >> people mostly get dopamine by watching reals these days. But the real dopamine is like somebody does good. For example, you have started this and you are doing good work that's you're finding. So likewise I find my dopamine by writing a great story investigative story. (11:00) I find my dopamine. So that's how I willingly changed and uh but in between there was pressure from the family in 2000 that uh you go Y2K problem which there were a lot of opportunities abroad in United States and elsewhere. So you take MCU while working master of computer applications but I didn't pursue it also RC while I was working with inadu as a central editor he's an is coaching expert he came to inadu in search of me because I was writing in inadu editorial article sudhakar mulani so he came yuru and he (11:39) we were he came and I went to receive him in the lift he was asking who is sudhakar I was just 20 21 and he said hey you look uh so angry are you writing these articles honey so but he also told me why don't you pursue uh IPS um entrance civil civils entrance so he gave me books free >> so but uh I was teaching there sometimes international affairs so I didn't pursue it so always it was consistent once I took that decision to take up uh journalism >> yes so you stopped Inado journalism school in 1997. (12:18) Um but you know school you mostly learn frameworks or theoretical experiences can when you were put on field they didn't teach you how it was like to knock on a grieving family's door or a murderer uh opposite marti I'm sure they didn't teach you all that how was it sir how is it different one thingard journalism is a school is a great school where best of the best journalists now in Telugu states have come from that school now they're in different uh there some of them are in Saki some of them are in English papers (12:53) and all those things so always uh it's a better school when compared to lot of universities there are a lot of practicals also done there but mostly what we learn is on the ground while working so it is very sensitive particularly dealing with the victims >> as you said uh we need a story we need to find out what happened. (13:20) We need the human interesting angle. There were lot of instances where we went to terror blast with [gasps] but there is always a code of ethics and ethical concerns. Some don't follow some follow because we have seen some visuals earlier where one TV channel goes uh jubile's blast you know there was cheruri >> want to kill paral rai and moan babu actor moan babu and paral ravi were going in that car and that so one TV channel while that fellow lost all his limbs going and asking for his coat or bite bite >> so It happens this very insensitive but (14:02) we balance it. >> There is always we need to get the story. So victims grieving. So we should uh we should not be always believe we should not be part of the story. But sometimes we should empathize with them and go get the real facts and we should be unbiased even victims also because there is always in journalism or anything there is always heads and tails. (14:34) So accused so but we used to it was like learned on while working. [clears throat] Yes. So interestingly there was victims there were instances accused I think you know there were lot of instances there was a lady down in Hyderabad who came and uh attacked our office previous office. >> Okay. (15:04) There was an uh ex uh MLA uh and with all his corporators he came and stage da shouting sudhakar down down and he burnt papers. >> So there was lot of such backlashes comes and um there were one famous actor also came on stage. So this all happens but we we must be highly crime scene. Um so I want to get into the real scams the biggest scams of this generation sir and you are the one who broke them. (15:38) So starting with Teli uh stamp paper scam which is worth 30,000 cr. So invol so bureaucrats politicians normal people everyone compromised. What made you break the story sir and what was the instant moment in the chayalyan? one of the senior journalists are serious journalists in this part of the world doing good work or whatever possible work but there are many other journalists elsewhere in other parts of the country other parts of the world doing great work I think scam from there is also a web series on teli scam it's one of the major scams I was very keenly (16:17) involved and got uh nice investigations done because this scam Abdul Kharimi he was printing judicial stamp papers not fake currency usual fake currency print documents fake it's very difficult to so there was always there were cases here and there caught but it is not going to the main guy so when uh the scam came out I was closely following ing these guys. (16:55) By the time actually he was arrested and put in um Chenchul Gura jail. So he's supposed to stay in Chelura jail but what happened he said I got um heart problem so shift me to with court permission he was shifted to hospital. Okay. With the help of one of the jail officers and with the help of hospital doctors, he is literally on record he is in the jail >> but he goes to Rajani Hotel. (17:40) Okay. The man who looted this country, the man who uh printed so many fake judicial papers and caused So I went to the hotel >> okay >> and got all those uh um who are staying and all those pictures and all those things. Uh so who stayed and all those things and I written a good great story >> saying how the guy the Keli was staying in Rajani hotel. (18:18) That is one major story. Then other one is there was a story there was an IPS officer um who went with him to Mumbai >> okay >> in a jet airways so I got hold of those documents and I published a story about the connections of certain IPS officers involved in the case helping Teli and there is one more called guy called risand what are the links so it was lot of IPS officers were exposed >> and one more IPS officer and some inspector were also exposed. (18:56) That case led to the arrest of that IPS officer. So I was closely following there was sit formed later that sit uh I was also in touch with them. So I got some sources there. So apart from that my independent investigation I went to Pune. There was a jail there is a jail called Ara Jailrishna. He was also a minister at the NTDP then Tudeshan party. (19:23) He was involved in that scam. He was jailed there. So I go and meet him and get likewise uh it was work of documentation leg work. It was work of going and getting. So major things are um how he was living in hotel, how these IPS officers were involved and other thing is um um how this racket is spread and it was almost 3 months continuous guy was running stories. (19:53) Then it led to arrest of an IPS officer. >> Okay. >> Then EIP officer Inuka additional SP rank they fight in the jail. So all those because we have got sources we have reported there was a lawyer of Teli called Malesh Ra liars are like they will fight for anybody in the sense so Malesh is a great lawyer >> you know chala senior uh I he's a good friend of mine so we were in touch he fought for them and uh but despite I used to get lot of details and uh there was some one inspector and DSP by name who did a excellent work there. Apart from getting (20:33) information from the sources investig ground. >> Okay. >> It was a good case and he died later >> of illness. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's one of the top scams. Then volumes >> and the next biggest thing is Panama file sir. [snorts] Uh most the largest financial leak. So documents Hyderabad related people influential names. (21:16) Did you make a call? How did it feel to spot these names? International Consortium of Investigative Journalist ICI. >> Yes. So I got trained with them in 2016 but they did not have tie up with my organization previous organization DC which I was working but I have personal contacts with them Indian Express North India Express they could able to lay hands on certain people. Okay. (21:45) >> But this part of Hyderabad when I got access to the offshore database leaks because some people who got all these there are a lot of tax countries you know British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, any tax countries money center, corruption money, illegal money, tax evasion money, India. So I already reported about the tax events and all those things earlier. (22:18) So details so we have to investigate one by one. So there were big companies but I will tell you yes >> I was shocked [snorts] to see one of the companies owned by uh one of the company director who lives in Africa is a big um u businessman there. His name cropped up in Panama papers saying that he floated using this and he has these companies and he is a director of a company owned by Mukamantria Saiadika company director Unadu. (22:57) >> So soon after my story of exposing that guy having links with Panama he resigned from that company. the director >> director resigned from that company because this politician is is clever to remove him quickly so that there is no connection left. So then what happened next there was a big who has become MP now his company is also involved it's a big uh company we investigated and some companies dummy companies ground there were address it's all dummy companies suitcase companies briefcase companies they're allies (23:40) I think we can't it's very difficult to access what are the bank statements but already bad guys >> unknown established evaders violators are involved named in certain other cases we get into that uh we know that these people have done something >> I It has turned into dam though we investigated and found out who are the people involved Indian express there is journalist called Rituarin Iika there is some (24:25) journalist called shinar jyala they all did good work I did good work as well though we are not so but uh it was very interesting because it's an international investigation transational so you have to get into those databases you have to find correlations it's more a data journalism or online oint investigation so and also physical investigation that was a uh but feeling and I know I was thinking okay this is going to lead to big thing but uh ultimately I think there are lot of big people involved so overall (25:02) country irrespective of political parties wanted to dewater that and uh whereas invest in several countries have taken action. >> So you mentioned about ICIG and how you're a part of it. So that requires you to keep things at utmost sec how do you deal with it sir and you can't tell anyone not family not your editor so how does it make you feel to keep all the secrets >> and we have to inform the editor keep him informed whatever happening in the country that's because we have to take the decisions based on what the guidance (25:41) because that's most important protection family But uh secrecy yes unless because if it's if that person [clears throat] is knowing he may counteract and he may destroy the evidence he or she may destroy the evidence or they may try to influence us in a different ways or influence people whoever at the helm of their fies. (26:06) So secrecy even these days online secrecy is very important. Your your your laptops your phones are to be digitally safe. So we I maintain a lot of digital hygiene and uh do lot of uh there are a lot of techniques to keep yourself away from hackers because there were instances where people tried to hack uh the laptops and mobile phones and all those things and uh we have also got a citizen evidence laboratory. (26:32) So I got my previous uh uh Android phone checked. >> Uh so there were some intrusions and uh even for Pegasus software which lot of people you know it was is a Israeli software which spies on new phones >> the people do uh okay >> because but now I that's why I moved to Apple phone. >> So so iPhone is far secured. >> Yes. (27:02) It is not totally secured >> but it's far secured than Android. >> So I always regularly because every year I go to global investigative every two years I go to global investigative journalism conference. I'm I'm a fellow of a global investigative journalism network. It's called Gen. It's the largest investigative journalism network across the world. (27:21) >> Yes. So we get our phone checked because there is a label and we can also do we know on different I have tweeted long back how to check your phone uh it's a big story how is your um battery extremely heating up is uh are there any blinks >> so what are the permissions you've given all those things are very important so these days it's more digital hygiene Yes sir. (27:52) >> Um yeah that's uh that's what about uh secrecy. >> So moving to the next big story hair smuggling there's one story and also human trafficking in Telangana. So two are very similar stories where in one story hair smuggle and the other you know human trafficking. So evidences on similar lines document files. (28:21) So human hair smuggling entirely my investigation it's all I unearthed and following which ED has taken up okay it's a parallel thing even scam is a par thing I'm doing they're doing like this is entirely my investigation human exporters genuine exporterscour airport. So I started digging into export import data. (28:57) >> Okay, >> that is available on payment and online. Then I started digging into those companies which are the companies expert. There is a company called Naylor exports. I have to tell you this exports. There's a Myanmar guy >> who is a director and a local guy. The real director is a Myanmar guy. >> Okay. >> Myanmar is Bama earlier and why a Myanmar guy is having a company here. So I went to the address. (29:25) So it is taking me I was thinking a human. So it went and took me to the most posh place of Jubilee Hills. >> Okay. >> All huge buildings, these palatial houses there. I found that address. I was waiting outside as a [clears throat] commoner somewhere far off. Then I was observing who are the people going in coming out. (29:58) Then um that place entire house that flats full of human hair. Manishi jut. Okay. >> Whole house >> it's not flat. It's a house. Whole rooms >> kind it's a dup. So I was surprised and shocked. So that means what is the value of this human hair? Then we started digging more. It is $60 $100 worth of 1 kg >> and it is 10,000 cr just one guy made. (30:37) And uh so then um I started writing stories one by one how this na exports runs in this place and how what are the it [snorts] is supposed to be $60 they're only selling giving putting an invoice So they getting money through havala and money money lending apps. Okay. So multiple angles there is a child labor angle woman. Foreign (31:29) speech. Foreign speech. Foreign speech. Yes. Temples. Okay. But then it goes to these mugglers. Not only Hindus but even Catholics like Gonadala temple, Welankani temple in Nagapatnam in Tamil Nadu. They also offer this ju. So that is called (32:30) actually but it is used to make chemicals. >> Okay. So it's a black gold. You have to make it tighten. So this has tom export they want to introduce. But (33:23) one fellow went up to MP candidate also trade and I've seen the fellows with lot of gold wearing these gold men who are in Hyderabad some of them are fake also they are only recent phenomena so they are making big money hundreds of crores 300 scores of business then itself >> so They're legally suffering because these illegal guys let us do the started doing this racketing China. (34:09) It goes via Myanmar and Bangladesh on land. They lift in air cargo. This human hair waste women. Okay. Wig industry is a huge billion multi-billion dollar industry in China. Europe particularly the black women >> they like to wear wigs. Okay. >> They purchase a lot and film industry also you know a lot of film stars (34:56) they wear those famous big guys also whom people admire they wear wigs. So $600, $800, $1,000. He makes product and makes lot of money. So I got a friend in in customs you know you have to have when you are investigative journalist friends sources so you know everything what's happening so with that I could able to go there to the borders and okay >> and we talk to people and there is a guy (35:43) that comes up you talk about But there is a guy called Lucas Mangalana. He is a guy he got family in Myanmar also some of family members. can transport you know he floated he himself made 10,000 crores of money 10,000 >> so when continuous stories human hair smuggling how it's happening the child angle child so I got pictures from Myanmar (36:30) >> videos from Myanmar those camps original camps where the children are made to do all these things accord child labor tax evasion angaloo companies angaloo and even how havala most of the money uh comes back in havala gold biscuits it is also gold smuggling you know gold smuggling is a big thing in India you know that that film actor Rana something like that also >> lady that woman actor Mhm. (37:08) >> So gold smugging is a big thing. Every day you get caught in airport from Dubai and other places because Indians like gold a lot. They want to stock it, hold it. Okay. Havala is like you know the cash the black cashes because I went into dug deep into that series that [clears throat] led to ED action enforcement director booked a PMLA case prevention of money laundering act case because what happened I'll tell you this is very interesting so I (37:52) accompany I is there. So Ed wants to go to morning. Okay. >> So police are waiting. We were waiting with them at the house. We somebody because he's a big man. He's into sports association, religious association. Somebody tips him off. Look. What is he? He is not coming home. Borders poorest borders. (38:33) You know we have poorest borders with Bangladesh. He's still at large. Very important. So there were took it up very seriously under smuggling whether it is timber smuggling whether (39:18) it is red sander smuggling sandalwood smuggling wildlife smuggling is age-old >> practice and that's it will continue but it will decrease it will transform. Yeah. So easy. So this human hair smuggling story is one of the good stories in my life which I investigated journalism. I got some awards also internally and also >> on similar lines human trafficking story. (39:52) Human trafficking human smuggling human trafficking. Okay. Human smuggling America Ecuador Antapo there were people who died at Canada borders. people who die in these forests. Soaki exp one one big one is um to the Myanmar camps cyber slavery enter okay so myanmar there's a golden triangle (40:37) cyber crime Myanmar lavos um then um these countries there uh were involved in uh Cambodia >> okay we're involved cyber city Cambodian 90% 70% 70 to 90% digital arrests they will call and do all these things first they go through route (41:32) Okay. illegal cross. So I could able to get the visuals the photographs of crossing all those things how it happens and I've written a series of stories and cyber because I could able to touch get touch with these people who are victims or scamsters and agents network and breaking there's a guy called Rajar that fellow is is arrested later so It was a very good story. (42:08) >> It is more of a smuggling. Willingly these people went but they were put forced into some of them were beaten up. >> Okay. >> But they are also some of them are partners in the crime human trafficking. Very interesting. human trafficking bonded labor human trafficking. It is not only crossber within the country also. (42:41) So it happens a lot lot of earlier Russian Ukrainian girls are um human trafficking is also bigger both human smuggling and human trafficking victimies published series of stories series of stories on how Gulf migration illegal migration so it has created a lot of impact protector of immigrants rules pass. (43:16) So sometimes you need to go into depth you should mostly we don't do much of a string operations but uh you have to get into the documents and people talk to them uh so sometimes it's very risky and tricky. >> Yes sir. So moving back to Red Sanders, you spent most of your life >> working on this 10 12 years that you worked on it. (43:42) So time people were smuggling people were breaking the forest that you know you're witnessing a forest breakdown 14th century Chinese only that quality is found in the 19th century and once it is (44:27) political It has become bigger we are witnessing that how so I did lot of investigation dig deep into that and who are the people kingpins there's a guy called sahu he's most wanted by interpol so we tracked him in four countries France law dubai law first property documents. So I even broke a story how he sold a property in Chennai after while investigation. (45:10) So that uh story went on well and uh exposed sahulami Dubai links film actors links there was a air hostess who was involved Lakshman there was a film producer involved there is a that's why one of my chapter says uh love sex and scandalwood so one of my chapters the Chinese connection chapter how Chinese are taking away how it goes most of the but is a more a fictional movie investigation and real people. (45:49) So we exposed a lot of people and it is happening today also because that's called red gold music instruments as a journalist of India He gave special codes that is impact of my work. >> Yes sir. Of course he is the instrument in that but notice connections connection (46:47) but lower level found lot of connections and even media is involved so many people are involved this this is a nexus. So mostly that's an interesting question because I have spent lot of nights and days I walked 28 kilometers up and it's not walking up and down coming down going down. I went traveled with the smugglers. (47:28) If you see the photographs in my book, police so I've seen all those live and it was very tedious and very high energy >> particularly summer heat expo. Um I also went to lot of places in and around Chennai which are active. >> There is a place in Bangalore also called Kataganali. So very Chennai red hill sani. >> So it was like we go there we quickly talk to people take whatever evidence and come back. (48:09) So we don't know in one place we were about to be killed. These are all uh we were in I have a assistant also and uh we when we were doing documentary also it was very cumbersome and very uh because we interviewed Gander we interviewed so many people so that documentary become famous and controversial also journalism we have to show our impact we can achieve those kind of things. (48:48) Yes sir. So most wanted criminals. So as a victim I mean as a witness you were there or as a true investigator a journalist should not be party to any you are only a reporter who reports from outside was not wanted he was already arrested in marishes and he was brought back in that and he brought back he's living a normal life okay facing cases and living a normal life but he was not an open life so we took lot of time to reach out to him. (49:27) >> Then Sahul Amidi still wanted by Interpol and he's hiding in Dubai. We could able to take we went to Dubai and that fellow He will not speak up. He still wanted we were we will witness to the history. We will witness to the journalism but not to the case. >> Yes. >> Never a journalist should be a party. >> So we should write let the agencies or (50:12) whoever take >> it's it's not easy to reach them. >> It's not easy to stand up and write. It's difficult. So sir, you're dealing with a lot of criminals and big guys. So I'm sure there are continuous threats. So safety net, how do you keep yourself safe? >> There are a lot of threats, different type of threats. Okay. (50:36) Physical threats, legal threats and psychological pressure. Psychological pressure everyday dealing with these kind of things. Legal threats. There's [clears throat] something called slap strategic legal uh cases suits against active participation of journalists. journalist in silence defamation faced few cases all those things but I quote but I came out clean because what protects you is we are in the business of truth telling verifiable truth You are safe. And always I tell let lose (51:30) the truth. It will protect itself. It will also protect you. intention even the biggest safety net is your integrity against criminals or whatever. Then physical threats, drugs investig I don't my weapon is my my pen. (52:19) My weapon is my integrity or whatever truthfulness. Integrity may be truthfulness. No malified intention and public interest. Always work for the public interest. Whole thing journalism true journalism investigative journalism. Now people are afraid of light not darkness. People who are people in question are people different people are doing good. (53:07) >> One of the biggest things and recent Ukraine ground. So how is it usually journalist crime reporting it's called reporting initially then crime reporting crime report for long but um I did health environment but I got an opportunity to cover Ukraine war so war correspondent is a bigger thing very big thing >> it's a ultimate journalism law people thing. So I took up the opportunity. (53:50) My wife knows that. So my kids doesn't know. We I was traveling from here to Frankfurt. >> Mhm. >> From Frankfurt to Wasa, Poland on flightani. We took a I took a car to the borders. From there again another. So I got Ukrainian armed forces because you need it because if you're going from Russian side it is difficult Europe it is more green. (54:28) Yes. Hoteling suicide drones. Iran made drones given to Russia. >> Yes. So every day it was sleepless nights there. From there we went to warfront like Haku, Dontesk, the big warfront areas, real war. So I was there and so we reported for different angles and I was prepared because war correspondent anything happened you going right into the fight. (55:13) So I told my wife but she was confident that he will come back also. We lived in Kaian where a journalist from different other countries were all it's all K is buzzling with journalist because but every hour key every four hours key there are attacks and all those things local people so but most dangerous is when you go to the red zone or whatever that zone that where we were there for one week or so but then a definite death. (55:51) If something bad happens, if a bullet stays sent you, if you if a missile hits you, shelling hits you, it's all so I didn't sleep at all. >> You were scared. >> There is a fear always. But uh it's it it's when you go to when you go to any bombasting when you go because so you get used to it Ukraine. So it is not fear ultimately great experience for a life (56:37) to go a war and cover it situation we should be careful I was very careful my organization was also very careful and I came back and I survived that war and but imagine about people who were who were killed soldiers who were getting killed both sides it's not good for the society so to make it lighter who is sudhakar sir beyond crime scenes or investigative journalism (57:23) >> yeah I watch a lot of movies I watch a lot movies on Netflix and Amazon Prime majorly then spy movies espionage movies I also like light romantic movies of Christmas rom romantic movies I like those things I used to write poetry in Telugu >> okay >> it's more of a um like sri I used to like sri and I like films of manatnam Okay. (57:56) >> My most Mumbai was most I always tell I always tell man my father was a farmer so I came from a village so I from village to I went to 25 countries on their fellowships. I studied in London in University of Westminster and all those things. So I feel take pride of it but Of course, but as a filmmaker, his films then as for the social cost. (58:36) She is a revolutionary poet. >> Yes. >> Against that bullet theory. But um I do lot of colonies. I transformed one where I lived earlier in San Purra. I worked for the parks. So we developed parks, we developed roads was the chief minister. I worked hard for lake protection encroachments. Even hydra commissioner (59:20) ranganad was helping. Sjana was helping. So I take help for the common good. Mostly I I like traveling a lot. Luckily I'm traveling on work and conferences. Uh around uh 25 30 countries I think some countries more than so any conferences I'm a global investigative journalism network fellow I'm a Norwegian foundation for investigative reporting scoop fellow I'm a geospatial uh in Amsterdam I went twice geospacecial world forum fellow okay >> on satellite journalism um I recently went to Bhutan to train (1:00:06) journalist so I went to best great countries Japan also I went and so many countries >> on invitations not with my money but it's both work and seeing around uh so I like traveling a lot going to as a traveler favorite country >> uh favorite country is Japan because I like the tech tradition and uh they have a old religion of Shinto and then Buddhism and then uh they have um tech technology it starts with their commode >> and Yeah. (1:00:42) Um, I like that there's there's a plane and their seafood and all those things and their longevity. I also like cities like Newark, uh, San Francisco, London. I also like Scotland. I was there and, uh, even Amsterdam. Um, so I traveled Italy, France, everywhere. But some cities make longlasting impressions. Paris is also good, but u I like some of the cities better than that. Even I went to Bosnia. (1:01:09) so many different countries and I as a speaker as a fellow I'm a cher I was in London for so many months >> and I was lived lived as a learner um with u I worked with as a guardian as a participatory observation I so uh yeah there is a yeah every person can there is always his side of lighter side um I'm also a family man and spend a lot of time with uh my kids and and more importantly um I'm an advocate of free thought, free speech and society of irreligious. (1:02:01) So I always feel bad about that and uh so and more importantly I train young journalists. I feel students training classe all journalists came so rural contributors forest academy (1:02:45) so rural so 10,000 people imagine I feel immensely happy about that and the training is almost we touching thousand people on behalf of Google on behalf of US consulate teaching. So I go I teach crime reporting, investigative journalism, media lot, nulsar law, HU I go all universities teachers know teaching is other important thing and the light is I like forest a lot and then I'm a wildlife lover I go uh to the forest and I like I spend lot of time in the forest I also report also that's so work personal and I have a very strong friends maybe (1:03:33) strong enemies also uh strong friends though I spend a lot of time >> so we have a lot of young viewers and uh to a young budding >> the jenji and millennials >> journalists in general what do you like one takeaway for them >> one takeaway is very simple people think uh money today's criteria biggest criteria is money so first question comes is there a In journalism big answer is no. (1:04:04) In the sense unless people are doing illegal things, blackmailing, extortions, there are a lot of people who are doing that decent salary or a decent salary, decent ragal over the years. I'm an example. I started with just 300 rupees of stringing. Today I'm getting a very decent salary. So that can be when you work hard and you have you get a name you can create impact on the society. (1:04:36) So journalism to do something good for the society to learn because I feel they clean our manholes took that as a pill and there are a lot of my cases taken newspaper happiness and justice called me chief justice called me for distributing the checks. So it's a immense happiness it will come and u so you have to come here to create an impact at the same time if (1:05:25) you're decently doing good work you get decent you get to go and see the world and more importantly you can talk to multiple people you can talk to good guys you can talk to bad guys you can talk to doctors engineers politicians you can see the world I'm not against it at all. I I hate the word also that pop culture and there is no there is no culture like that people want to go and so but don't do bad things because but journalists especially you still journalism is good >> still journalism has got opportunities (1:06:04) if you're doing the right things if you're uh taking up right path you can go and get and see the world there is something called factchecking so these are all good areas which if you want to pursue but seriously passionate pursue and go for originality because today it's all um mix up I call it information diarrhea so every [snorts] everywhere there is information everybody is doing the same so better focus on some originality original stories even in a era extremely original people will survive >> I always tell extremely original (1:06:45) thinkers extremely original writers, great original thinkers that's a great original journalist, original stories from the ground will survive. And uh the last question sir, one story that you deliberately killed not because of pressure and another story that you're extremely proud of like >> I'm proud of many stories like what I said just now that farmers I'm proud of like gender like you don't have a toilets in this country even today there is no toilet dignity for the country for the people for the women girls rural people one (1:07:23) girl ended her life because there is no toilet and mocking the she was mocked by road romeo's so I when I went and worked on story that place has been transformed when child girl child killing happened in Kolkata paridara I did a story it transformed that story led to so there are a lot of good stories to be talked about apart from those scams these are the human interesting stories but story when there is no evidence when we can't prove it in the court of the law we can't go about that uh otherwise every story I don't believe (1:07:57) story interesting stories um today I wrote about tiger stress uh so I I write small stories to big stories there is no nothing small if it interests readers if it has public interest it is a story I was tracking man tigers also but policy newspaper policy >> that I can't comment on that because it's very sensitive. (1:08:25) Newspaper policy allows we can write. So because ultimately you have to be in the job to do something good then uh there were certain instances here and there but not because of me because it has been so uh but mostly u I don't stop any story when there is an evidence that's what the problem >> evidence is >> that's what the problem for the people >> cuz I don't get u that's what you can see there are a number of instances >> is there any story right now in Hyderabad particularly >> that people are ignoreing ignoring deliberately and (1:09:03) some people may say there is an journalist when you emergency time when you are asked to bend the crawler media likewise investigative journalism has become a dying art second thing there is lot of pressure governments and all those things so there are lot of stories that are not being looked into because literally we talk about freedom of expression but in state level or center level or whatever level uh there is anti- that's why people are fighting in west also journalism is not a crime >> there is a rise of uh (1:09:40) anti-dia they call media as prostitutes and all those things batch and all those things they cause so there are a lot of trollings happen and all those things but even then apart from that yeah there are a lot of stories that are buried >> so It was a very insightful conversation mini and I myself wanted to be an investigative journalist. (1:10:04) So it is it is an honor for me to be talking to you. Thank you so much for being with us today. >> Thank you very much and uh I wish all the best. We need lot of investigative journalist particularly young women like you. >> Thank you sir.
Title: Why Are We Still Silent About Mental Health in a Telugu household? | Dr. Vishnu Gade | Unscripted
Author Name: Unscripted with Meghana Reddy
Description: Psychiatrist Dr. Vishnu Gade discusses mental health in a simple and practical way — from depression and teenage stress to parenting, social media, loneliness, women’s and men’s mental health, and modern psychiatric treatments.
We explore why people hesitate to visit a psychiatrist, how to differentiate sadness from depression, how social media affects emotional health, and why mental health education should begin at an early age.
⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
00:00 – Introduction 01:38 – Meet the Psychiatrist & Breaking Mental Health Stigma 04:30 – Why Did He Choose Psychiatry? His Journey Begins 08:20 – Mental Health Stigma in Families & Society 10:00 – Why People Hesitate to Visit a Psychiatrist 13:30 – Astrology vs Psychiatry: When Mental Health Gets Overlooked 15:41 – Sadness vs Depression: How to Tell the Difference 17:47 – Can Depression Improve Naturally? Lifestyle & Treatment 19:52 – Hidden Depression: Recognising the Warning Signs 23:42 – Academic Pressure & the Mental Health of Teenagers 28:18 – Parenting, Comparison & Supporting Children 31:37 – Why Social Media Is Affecting Emotional Health 33:49 – Social Media, Comparison & the Dopamine Cycle 39:53 – Mental Health Advice on Social Media: What to Trust? 47:35 – Can Parents Pass Mental Health Patterns to Children? 51:07 – Women’s Mental Health: PMS, Stress & Life Changes 57:20 – Mental Health Education Should Start in Schools 01:07:32 – Emotional Readiness & Loneliness 01:15:25 – Men’s Mental Health: Why Men Hide Their Emotions 01:26:20 – TMS, Modern Psychiatry & the Future of Mental Health 01:37:13 – Seeking Help & The Final Message: “You’re Not Alone”
Transcript: (00:00) To start off, you're a psychiatrist. Let's be honest, everyone likes the cardiologist, the neurologist, Gandhi Hospital in Second. Then I saw the hardcore cases, very sad one cases, children that changed my whole perspective in most psychiatrist. That's how they consider it. >> Even till date people cannot pronounce it correctly. (00:32) They might say psychiatrist, psychiatrist. But China you know what they used to call us doctor. >> Most people might visit a astrologist before coming to a psychiatrist. Is that true? >> Marriage sadly is not going so smoothly. So the pujari comes suggests few pujas to be done but then again nothing happened and that was actually on the >> Telugu student particularly MZ IIT Chadali USL Pali Pali. (01:01) So what does this kind of mapping do to a teenager brain? >> Now to start it off I would say I'm also part of this factory. >> Social media makes you want to compare your life with another person. I I think that's the worst thing for this uh generation in mental health aspect. What do you think? We never talk about [music] men's mental health. (01:28) [music] >> The beauty with men [music] mental health, depression, anxiety, addiction last 12 mental health psychiatric specialist Dr. (02:24) More importantly, depression, anxiety, de addiction is qualifications, philosophy, mental health. last option. Soal judge Thank you so much for joining with us on unscripted. How are you doing? >> Hello. Thank you Magna. I'm really good. How are you doing? Thank you for having me. (03:06) >> I'm good, thank you. To start off, you're a psychiatrist wedding function relatives. >> So this is not just one function. It can be multiple like birthday parties or weddings or home pujas. But starting low, it used to be awkward. I mean maybe in like early 2010s or something when I was a student as well but gradually gradually you see the people change with their expressions and be like Mundo it will be like oh miss psychiatrist and she like oh wow miss psychiatrist so I feel the you know the people are getting (03:43) more get to know about psychiatry as a medical subject >> and awareness is increasing uh thanks to social media the government and uh policy makers. So I think again like I said people like you also who are you know forefronting this so we are doing very good in that but related law still uh it is going to be a tricky task because let's be honest everyone likes the cardiologists likes the neurologists the physicians uh so when it comes to the other subjects say there is a little bit bias but then again people go with (04:20) passion and their own personal stories >> uh So whatever it is now, I feel we're doing good. Better than 2010 for sure. >> Yes. But why mind? Why did you choose this part? >> So interestingly uh my aunt's a psychiatrist in Chicago. >> So then uh so I grew up with her as well. So she was a student of Usmania during her MBBS days and then uh they used to you know discuss with me you know we saw this case. (04:51) I was very little. I wouldn't know anything but you know how we used to play doctor >> we used to have this toys the board games the lighting you know those kind of things so then it was always fascinating you know about it and then being from a doctor family I think it's since childhood not you know innately instilled like hey you have to be a doctor but constantly everyone around you talking about it e patient >> e you know discussion and all then you get dragged into it then I think when she also became a resident, >> okay, (05:22) >> for psychiatry in the US. uh we used to you know connect on call and maybe Apuru as you know I think this was in the early 2000s okay landline and then again expensive calls international calls would be so expensive you would just have like hey 5 minutes you know that everyone in the house has to talk with the person >> so I remember that 5 minutes would be so awesome she' be like she the same thing again repeat okay I saw you know a bipolar patient today I saw a schizophrenic patient today I didn't know what it meant but the tourist you (05:54) would say [snorts] you know their you know uh traumas their you know struggles and how that patient from then has become better maybe say 6 months later okay it was always fascinating to me and then when I went to med school uh again like I said psychiatry patients we wouldn't see a lot but we had a very good department so I was from Kamini medical college in Nipali alganda >> so we had a department I still remember a female PhD a postgradu student she was very interested to teach us classes how we were as students you know class (06:32) but she used to make it a point to tell interesting cases or be like hey do your homework and come I'm going to tell you something better about this so that also piqu my interest I think and then I think I did my uh yeah I think it was an internship which I did in Gandhi >> okay >> Gandhi hospital in secundrabad then I saw the hardcore cases, the very sad ones, >> okay, >> the traumatic ones, then they were like traumatic abuse cases, children who would be like, you know, traumatic because of abusive parents, alcoholic (07:06) fathers. I think that changed my whole perspective >> hearing all good stories >> like hey sunshine and rainbows >> then suddenly coming into the government hospital seeing like 20 30 patients every day and all were like one worse than the other >> it hits you at some point and then I did you know you are attached you're not allowed to treat them but you're attached to a doctor and you do the rounds with them you roam around and learn with them and do the whatever the extra internship roles. (07:40) So then one case got so much better. I still remember they came to the hospital with one sweet box >> and I was rotated. I was in a different department. They came searching for me and my other friend uh and they came and gave that small sweet box. So that was a very sweet thing. And then I thought why not the mind because fever, cold, cough 3 days maximum 5 days, one week you do get better. (08:04) mental health is so so chronic or longlasting sometimes it takes years and months and when you're on that journey with them you become a part of them yes >> or the family and it did feel really good and then when I think I took a decision that I'm going to go to the psychiatry route >> I'm so glad you did that >> uh but uh growing up uh mental health an was it a thing in your family did people talk about it >> uh not openly like I said Again it uh it still is a stigma >> because okay coming to this question yes in my relatives or in the family there (08:40) were people who were not suffering directly with the severe cases but hey okay copund >> yes yes >> personality he's a very dominating person uh the you know a girl or the women in the family she's gets cranky very easily okay now medically looking back you could have thought hey maybe it's hormon maybe it's PM missing maybe somewhere maybe go to the gynecologist get a checkup so Atlanta but no one used to go everyone would be like in mani in >> so those kind of a things but yeah in the family they cases but now like when (09:18) you asked Jinapur we didn't know >> and even while studying we didn't know to be honest but now that we know the subject we know how to identify so that's why we are here >> to identify to educate ate the people so that the things are not delayed and when things go out of hand >> and being from a doctor family also there are so many things we missed >> there might be hey go to the doctor sooner why don't you get yourself checked or at least assessed once but we didn't because even we wouldn't know >> I just got conscious that uh you would (09:52) have judged my personality on all of it by [laughter] now >> no >> we are off duty sometimes [laughter] >> so coming back to mental health in most that's how they consider it. So what do you think about that? >> It is sad to be honest. Uh when I was like I said again interning uh we could see obviously people they're uneducated they wouldn't even know how to pronounce the word psychiatrist. (10:25) >> Psychologist even till date people cannot pronounce it correctly. They might say psychiatrist, psychiatrist something like that but still but chinapuro you know what they used to call us doctor >> that's how it is. So then a mental doctor then again like I said education wise improvement or like psycho education or in the hospital okay this department deals with this you need to go there because you have an issue like this and then you know people got educated about it and now like I said it's getting better (10:58) >> uh but uh still in the rural areas because we do our camps sometimes we go deep into the interior tribal areas and villages as well uh Then when you do say uh sorry we can say neuro >> to you know help or ease it out. Yes doctor we cover it up sometimes but the moment you say psychiatrist or mental health >> it goes the other way sometimes sadly it's not consciously but >> it does happen. (11:33) I think most people cardiologist 25 year old you know a kid I mean a person parents cardiologist psychiatrist they feel hesitant. Yeah, that is true. uh then again like I said because of the stigma >> uh sadly I can uh openly say one thing if it is a teenager people are very hesitant >> you know for example especially if it's a girl the physician might say okay I have a doubt your daughter's going through terrible stress >> because the girl sadly will tell the doctor everything father mother >> so what happens is the disconnect is (12:13) there the parents don't know what's happening with the child they believe everything's all right but then the physician identifies it first then he might refer to us the specialist. So once they come to us uh then we can dig a little bit more but the fear is once they do come to the hospital they feel they're branded. (12:33) >> Yeah. >> Ohasari psychiat there's nothing wrong in it. It's just a checkup an assessment. There might not be anything necessarily wrong with the person but we are there to identify it. If it is there, yes. If it's not there, everyone's happy. But even for that prim uh the primary checkup, people don't want to show up because they are thinking they're getting branded. (12:56) Oh, my daughter or son/ is uh a psychiatric patient. She's going to be a mental illness patient for lifelong. So these are the stigmas which we need to you know assess. Just one visit is not going to label you or brand you and it's not lifelong. And then again anything treated earlier is much better. For example, you come at say teenagers if you have an issue you don't treat it for multiple years it's going to be so bad. (13:23) It's going to be very tricky and it's going to be very hard for us as doctors to treat it medically as well. >> Uh most people might visit a astrologist before coming to a psychiatrist. Is that true? Did it happen? It happened in a few marital cases because uh uh funny story it just happened like I think two years ago I think so it was an arranged marriage they went to their family astrologer numerologist whatever >> okay >> dantarawata whatever marriage sadly is not going so smoothly xy z reasons it can be so many (13:58) multiple reason then they call back the the astrologer and say hey you said everything in the kundi is fine Now what is this happening? >> So the pujari comes and then he you know apparently suggests few pujas to be done, few mantras to be done. The woman has to go fasting for certain next days. The husband has to go to some temple in Ahmedabad somewhere and he has to do certain rituals and come back. (14:26) Okay, they did all that but then again nothing happened. So again they had to come back to the you know like a proper doctor. Then again same thing they went to the family physician got referred to us at the hospital that's when we realized it was something actually important it was a you know bipolar case which was actually missed >> okay >> and that was actually on the boy's side >> so no one identified they try you know sadly blaming the wife >> she was a house housewife maybe because she's not doing certain things correctly (14:56) she's not taking care of the household or the husband correctly and uh the household is not correct but what was missed is the husband had childhood teenage bipolarity. >> Okay, >> mostly we call it cyclic >> uh depression which means few months he'll be all right, few months he'll have the depression phases where he might be very cranky, angry, all those you know depressive signs and so in those negative phases he would have fights with the wife >> and so that discord was missed. (15:26) So we treated the bipolarity in the male and then things calmed down. The fights subsided the husband wife became happy at the end and uh that was you know a happy story at the end. >> Yes. I'm glad but everyone feels sad. What is a big deal? I'm not too there's a in fact I feel it sometimes. (15:49) What would you say the difference is between being sad and being depressed? So sadness it affects everyone and day. Now put depression it's a medical condition or a disorder >> where there have to be certain criteria met like for example the three main ones we look for are like sadness which is constant not like hey 1 minute I'm sad one minute no it has to be throughout the day or more uh hours of the day lasting few weeks or months then it has to be In a pan you get easily tired, fatigue ability then you lose interest in what you used to have before. For (16:28) example, you used to go for a movie on a Sunday, meet your friends for a dinner. You start avoiding those things slowly slowly your uh personality is changing a little bit. You are avoidant and you're shunning yourself. >> Yes. >> So that criteria and there are other more 78 like that like sleep, concentration, work, self-care etc. (16:49) So that criteria if you meet you can be diagnosed as having clinical depression be it stages borderline mild moderate severe now sadness again like think of it like blues it's an emotional status which it can be temporary be it with the stress be it with the your day not going well maybe your bossing you or maybe you wanted your favorite team to win in the IPL and you lost by one ball so those things also do affect you right so after a few hours or maybe one two days you get back to your routine. Your brain is (17:22) trained in such a way that these chemicals this happy chemical the sad chemical. So these uh neurochemicals they fluctuate and then they come back to balance after a few hours or days. But in depression what happens that it stays like that. >> It doesn't normalize or doesn't revert to its normaly. (17:41) So that's when you know you need help. But there's no way for it to subsidize on its own until it needs medical help. >> No, no, no. See, we our brain is so beautiful. The body is a wonderful, you know, uh, thing. You do your, you know, natural things like good sleep, good diet, meet people. Don't be alone. Avoid these substances like smoking, alcohol. (18:02) Majorly 80% people might get better with this. Or else again do your exercise, read, start reading your books. We change your lifestyle. M >> you know that's what we say and if there's a stressor somewhere you identify it yourself and remove yourself from that place for example you have an alcohol problem but still you're meeting your friends at the local bar or local pub and having those drinks every day that's not a good sign so identify it remove yourself from that so avoid those friends meet new friends hey go play (18:34) football play basketball or just go join a reading club the new circle so your pattern has to be changed So the naturally your brain adapts. So it needs at least 30 to 40 days uh studies say 40 to 45 days for any normaly or a habit to change. So do that primarily but still if it's not able and your body is in a bad state you're not sleeping well you're having these medical symptoms like headaches back pains you're crying a lot and the red flag here is very very negative thoughts for example selfharming behaviors or self u uh (19:11) harming yourself to life or harming others >> the suicidal thoughts those are the things that are the red flags immediately you need to come to the doctor but if you want to try uh stage one try these lifestyle modifications for like at least 2 3 weeks then come visit the psychiatrist at the hospital or if you're not comfortable you can meet the psychologist or a counselor and at least get yourself assessed so then you'll have a root map what your current status is okay certain say a is like now uh then maybe two weeks tvata are you (19:43) improving yes or not if you feel you're not improving and regressing then we are always available medications are the gold standard But uh you know if a person could be depressed they'll be very you know happy and all that put together. How do you actually recognize or you know so difficult? >> Good question. (20:07) Uh some people are very good to hide their emotions. Maskingum they mask their emotions the sadness their anger very well. So and it is very sad. I mean we read it in the newspaper so often and not you know uh the su okay a student didn't do well in an exam suddenly they jumped up from a building or tried to commit self harm >> yes >> you know that person is a very cheerful person a kid for example but then small subtle signs >> maybe you can miss it and like I said you might say okay this is just a phase just leave it >> but the crying the anger the breaking (20:47) stuff, the hitting, >> the avoiding locking yourself in your room. >> Yeah, >> these things one day, okay, two days fine. And if it is going for more than say a few days or weeks, that is a red flag. That is when you need to, you know, >> talk to your child. >> Yeah. >> Or anyone be it a friend who has gone through a bad breakup, uh a spouse who has lost a job >> or the most common things I see these days is the stock market. (21:13) >> Okay. due to the whatever the wars the situation financial a lot of people have lost money invested like crores >> so that is a traumatic thing so that is a shocking thing so the red flags they can smile >> they can be cheerful because they're trying to pretend or they're genuinely trying to be normal like we want to you being uh like for example you're a mother you want to put a you know brave face for your children right you don't want to be crying in front of them and a lot of people there's nothing wrong in it. They cry (21:45) behind closed doors or in the bathroom during showers. I say nothing wrong. Do it. But what I tell my you know uh friends, family or my patients is let your emotions out. Be it anger, be it crying, be it whatever. Let it out in your close group. If you're very embarrassed or that you know you your things are going to be spread like gossip, do it within you know this restricted best friends group or confidants. (22:13) >> Yes. So that's when you release it and then the mask comes off >> and keeping the mask on for too long is also not correct. >> Very bad for the person going through things >> and it is not good for the health, the physical health, the mental health, the social health. Social health family >> and they will be still thinking yes it is all good. (22:37) The reason I said family is because if something bad does happen, it is the family who feels the guilt the most and they start blaming themsel in turn. Oh, doctor. So that guilt feeling is again like a toxic web. It affects everyone in the house. >> Think like think of it like uh cancer. >> Yeah. >> One patient in the house has cancer. It's the whole household will be affected. (23:04) Be it emotionally, financially, whatever, physically. Same thing with psychiatry. There's one psychiatry, a mental health issue. >> Yeah, >> let's use this word, the mental health issue. The whole family is affected. >> So that's why I say be open, talk it out, express your feelings. I think Jenzi kids are doing it a bit more. >> Yeah. (23:25) >> Uh like I said, I think we had the conversation before as well. They're doing it a little bit more. So try to understand what is balance. Yes, you have an issue, don't overexemplify it. Don't exaggerate it. Stick to it and if it is normal, yes, if it is not, we are there to help you out. >> Since you brought up students, you know, a Telugu student particularly, their life is mapped and first, MSET, IIT, Chadali, Pel, uh, USL, Poly, Pel, it's all mapped. (23:57) So what does this kind of mapping do to a teenager brain? >> Very good question Magna. Now to start it off I would say I'm also part of this factory. >> Okay. >> So even I I came out through the academyy's kakatya chaitanya and all. So we been through it. We know what happens inside out. It's hectic. It's grueling. You wake up in morning 7. (24:19) You go to the coaching center 8. You are there till 5 6 then again study. Then again exams back to back because you're trained in a way like hey India is a very populous country as you know the list seats are again limited >> so for example one lakh seats there are almost like 10 lakhs 20 lakh students fighting for that >> even one coveted seat beat whatever engineering medical UPSC whatever so now you are trained from childhood race you you call it whatever be it a rat race beat whatever race it is you don't do well now there stages which I see 10th parents (25:05) college life is sorted sorry we got it we go to the undergrad undergrad you need to have a good masters you get in a good IV league or something in national then your life is set so it the standards keep changing school it's over now but it's never over there is no finish line see education I feel is never ending >> you can keep studying till you're 50 till you're 80 whatever you're always trying to improve yourself in any field be it science AI medical law >> especially uh that way soap I feel it is getting more and more (25:48) stressful because mur it was a little easier I don't know Why? But maybe it was again the the competition of the population but again for that time the seats were limited >> for this generation the seats are again increasing but for the population I think the ratio is matching but still it's not enough. (26:08) So but the government is increasing more and more. Uh so it's again a debate is it good or is it bad. >> So you're tuning your brain either you get first or you're a nobody. Number one thing >> especially in Telugu household >> especially college top college not any B >> US have to be in the top colleges then again sadly there's a financial thing also you know financial constraints are there if seats are the are expensive their kas in it BCAT AAT ccat at lachalun so everything is competition and if you don't get well you are like not a good uh uh part of the family. (26:54) >> You won't get a good girl or a good boy to >> and and it starts with actually siblings. Now miji it's very true but it's marriage when okay 25 but think of it at 16 >> the sibling rivalry starts look at your sister she's getting more marks than you know in waste life and then like I said again college 2025 US all these things are you know instilled again they're like the societal norms it is there and I think it is in a lot of cultures maybe it can be whatever north Indian, Gujarati, Marathi >> but South Indian uh people as far as I (27:39) know are more stricter when it comes to studies compared to the other communities because I've seen few supportive parents who you know kids for example last month I had a kid goes to one of the top schools in Hyderabad Papa and the girl didn't do well >> now okay her brother studies in a very good college in the US, New York law. (28:02) I don't know the name, Browns or something. So, she also aspires to go to some Ivy League, but she sadly is not having the grades or the GPA to do so. She might get into a good college. The father is ready to pay and all that. So, she's lucky she has good family support. So, in front of me, the father did a very beautiful gesture. (28:23) She said, you know, beta, I don't care if you go to there. I'll send you to Dubai. I'll send you to Singapore, wherever you want to go. Don't have to beat yourself up so bad because we are not comparing you. And then the father was so surprised. We never had this discussion with our kids. >> Then you know one-on-one session. (28:41) Then it came out that it was one of the aunts >> who put it in his head >> into the girl's head. Okay. >> Okay. Now you are like like okay you are like the future of a family. You're the next generation. uh you have see your brother's doing so well you know he's going to get a good rishta someone you also need to do that family name is going to come down man society all that which are totally not needed for a 15year-old girl per se so that is when she took it negatively and on herself and like I said guilt feelings (29:15) is the you know red red flag because it goes in so many ways which you won't ever expect the girl you know may stop even having an interest in career. She might even avoid college. She might, you know, avoid her career, whatever studies because she's starting to blame herself that she's not good enough, that she's not worth it. (29:36) >> But that's what we need to say. So when the dad said that in front of me, I was so, you know, pleasantly and genuinely happy. He didn't even care about anything. He was like, I don't care wherever you go. You tell me where. He like, put a map in front of you. Just put a finger and I'll send you to that country. (29:54) So those small small beautiful you know family support moments you know that's what I feel is needed and again no not criticizing anyone uh everyone needs to study you know at the end education is the most important thing >> but the reason I said this is because in in that business community so he told me again even if my daughter doesn't do whatever she wanted to do interior and designing architecture uh I'll open a company for her >> and she can run the Because again it's in the blood, it's in the genes. (30:24) >> So, so that's a plan B. So as a family member, as a parent, there's always plan A and always you need to have a plan B for your kids. >> Yes. So I feel parents need to do a lot in that area. I feel >> talking to the kids is number one. >> See sadly again that the girl didn't tell her father because she was scared. (30:45) But then again the aunt planting that seed of negativity was again maybe right or wrong I won't say it was hers when when we asked the aunt we had a phone call with her because I didn't leave it I was like hindu so she was like it was my way of morally boosting her and at least pushing her because I felt she was getting a little bit lazy maybe she was maybe because she was like she was happy with her grades so the aunt was like I want to push her more >> her GPA I felt could do could have been better. So in her own way aunt was like (31:20) boosting her morally but see the girl took it a very negative negative way. So you never know. You can never tell. Right. >> Right. And this happens with adults as well. The words may be misinterpreted. >> The especially with text. That's why I say if you want to talk something, you have a fight with your friend. (31:43) Never text. >> Always have a phone call or leave a voice message which is it doesn't have to be 1 minute. Just leave a 20 second voice message. you know because sometimes that emotion becomes very very misinterpreted in texts. So even while explaining to kids that genuinely you know uh 15 years old 20 year olds even 20 I would say these uh this generation are emotionally a little bit lacking >> now I might get a little bit heat for this but see again the kids are growing so rapidly >> everything is social media the (32:17) everything is impulsive. So some things we were trained okay we were scooled ated like fight 10 times or I remember you know a principal in a Catholic school would you know have a nice whack you know whack at us sometimes and it was okay uh because it was like >> we used to be naughty as well we were reprimanded in satisfaiming I will complain you to the police >> even parents for example this happens a lot in the US uh parents shout or even there's a small hint of uh no I'm going to ground you or I'm going to slap you (32:54) 911. The kid calls the cops on the parents and this happens so so so uh frequently mna it is shocking at least in India it's not there but it is happening >> it might happen so >> it is already there >> okay they call police >> the 18 year olds the 20 year olds they are like I'm an adult now I'm going to call the cops you have no right to tell me so and so >> so it can be used as so many things for example don't go out at Don't roam on the roads. Come back home. (33:28) 18 year olds and 19year-olds kids are like, "Who are you to tell me?" The dad is like, "It's my house, my rules, my bike. I paid for your bike or your car. I'm the one paying for your petrol. Don't do that. It's not safe. Don't drink and drive." The kids are like, "No, >> you can blame social media for it. (33:45) " And and also another thing comparison siblings or friends or you know things like that but social media makes you want to compare your life with another person. I I think that's the worst thing for this uh generation in mental health aspect. What do you think? uh see Andy one uh comparison in the sense of learning something is for example an art there's a musician now there's a real how he's playing it and for some reason you want to take up the art or you are already a musician but you're not up there you're not the best but you try to (34:24) imitate or copy something and that's a good positive thing you're trying to imitate and learn something >> but then if for example you want see something and start having negative emotions towards it. You want to have this guy is nothing. We do we didn't waste he's not even that good-looking. How is he getting thousand likes? That negative emotions that hatred that I feel is the wrong thing. (34:52) So when you have something appreciate the other person and take the good things from it incorporate some things as well. Mhm. >> But now uh for example whatever social media is good or bad it is again changing so fast now we had uh 1 minute shorts then it became 30 secondond res then next I don't know it might be a 10-second reel we don't know what's happening the dopamine it is so fast the pat the person has no idea how to analyze one reel before he completes analyzing understands and accept accepts one re there's already (35:30) three four reels that have been swiped up. >> Yes. >> So there is nothing that positive is going on with the swiping >> and in our generation we used to have newspapers and magazines. I still feel that is the best way to go. You're calm, you're sorted and in the present moment we call that mindfulness. >> There's a page, there's an article, read it, understand it, grasp it. (35:54) >> With the reals, there's nothing that is being grasped. like maybe oh the clothes that the person wore that makeup or the shoes oh that's like a one lakh watch oh that's a Rolex all that comparison so that's when you said comparison is dangerous I also feel it is true because recently I uh even obviously we all scroll social media I was just scrolling through I was looking for say a watch >> my I for some reason the algorithm was caught all of my next feeds were the most expensive watches in the world I get one watch Amani is wearing one Tom (36:30) Cruz is wearing and these watches are what like 10 lakhs I one watch is 1 cr apparently so that's when you start >> you know comparison you wear say 10,000 watch is good enough for you for your status for your a class 10 student you don't need a Rolex >> come on you might be uh like 40 having your own company business a huge doctor yeah buy it from your own money that's beautiful but Now the goals is be becoming so materialistic I feel our goal is like to set a small clinic a small firm or a small business shop then (37:10) let's grow it to say a building let's expand no it's all materialistic let's buy a Ferrari first forget Mercedes it's directly Ferrari and then the kids are also being trained in such a way like it's a lot of fake things that go on on Instagram as you Magna >> whatever an influencer shows it's not even his or hers it might be rented or just marketing branded for someone but the lifestyle is shown in a way cha life I'm in one day Goa I'm in one day in Sri Lanka one day in Bali >> and that's not normal no one does that (37:46) unless they're travel enthusiasts or like you know celebrities or what so the kids these days I see a lot they're getting influenced by the lifestyle The demands that they want is becoming crazy. They're not asking Nokia or small phones iPhone. They're not asking the iPad, the normal tablet, iPad Pro. >> Like the Max. (38:11) >> Yes. Yes. >> That attaching Max for everything. I want a phone Max. I want an iPad Max. I want a TV Max. So there is no normalization or standardization I feel where your age is this. this is all you're going to get. This is the best that we can give you. I might be a millionaire. I might be a daily wage worker but still while status whatever they can afford is what you can give. (38:37) But the kids are expressing so much and then if they're not that is becoming an issue where we see as uh behavioral abnormalities or t temper tantrums. They're going uh berserk. They're breaking objects in the uh house. They're like threatening. eight an 8-year-old girl took a butter knife and put it through her throat recently and said >> yeah a case of mine recently and she said to the father for her birthday so that again is such a different tangent maybe the daughter was pampered maybe whatever it's fine but the limits (39:17) are being crossed because she yeah she threw a party in that lavish hotel a fivestar hotel naka hotel in agawali along with that gift >> okay >> and if you don't do I'll do this and that's where we are seeing a lot of problems it used to be teenagers maybe but now sadly the age is coming down young kids such as 8 9 10 are having these behaviors and it's not normal this is not what 8-year-old or 10 yearear-old should do >> oh my god but uh another thing about social media suppose Uh now example like suppose um there's a real that says (39:58) uh five aspects he's a narcissist like you're your husband is narcissist so algorithm picks it up and then five reels it's the same thing and now now I'm sitting oh my god I'm married to a narcissistic [snorts] person >> what am I supposed to do you know it builds up so even if it's not true just because of social media I'm starting to think all these mental health specialists Yes. (40:24) So they're not very healthy. What do you think about these? >> See, uh, educational videos are good. >> I mean, we also do that and we also learned from a lot of our seniors and peers who used to do educational videos. But nowadays it has become like a fad. >> Uh, in a bad way I feel. For example, uh, take maybe a dermatologist. (40:47) Okay, your skin is oily. Use this this this cream. Use this soap. They're just putting it out there. >> You have hair loss, use this shampoo. So, it's again medically okay, accepted or not is again a different legal issue. But education promotion is what I feel. >> Okay. >> And in this like you said, five features. It's not true. (41:10) >> I cannot do a test in 5 seconds. It's impossible. And this is again for the hook to drag you in for the viewership. And yes there are so many tests that we do in our clinic. The psychologist does the psychiatrist does. These are like like proper uh you know clinical rating scales which have been thoroughly researched over the years and then they are put out in the world where we can use them. (41:38) So without standardization and all these tools we cannot just say okay if I you are this if two you are this. No we use certain guidelines certain tests and assessments which are you know which have to be done by a professional >> not on social media by five things assess yourself and no but yeah it's like saying hey we do chronic pathological liar. (42:01) >> I cannot brand a person. Yes. There's a term called pathological chronic. >> I lost because I did think of it. >> Yeah. And then narcissistic trait, domination trait, um or patriarchal, matriarchal. So it's not that easy. So they are uh guidelines. Get the person to us. We'll do the testing for you if you have those doubts. (42:24) But then again, personality traits again it's not rocket science. >> You can assess in a person. If it is, everyone has traits. Even I might have certain narcissistic traits. Who doesn't? Every person will have certain good traits, certain bad traits. Now they're getting out of control in your daily life, your professional life, your family life. (42:44) >> That is when you say, "Hey, you have a medical problem. You need to go to a doctor." But like I said, uh common things see the things are happening between boyfriend and girlfriends. the reals are there, the Google is there, the chat GBT is there, and then the girlfriend or the boyfriend coming up and saying, "Hey, I feel you're having this. I think we need to break up. (43:04) " >> But like I said, that is not good. That's not legal. That's not even uh right. >> A medical licensed uh professional should be doing it, not Google or Chad, >> just influencers. >> Yeah. But again for fun if you take it as like a good in a sense of humor you're just doing it for fun that's okay you get some kick out of it a laugh but don't take it too seriously my goto home you know takeaway messages any real given by a non-medical professional please take it lightly don't take it to heart just have a good laugh at it and (43:39) forget it >> I want to come back to parents you know parents But we are normal. We turned out good only make it a big deal. I know conversation I'm sure most kids would have had with their parents. So what do you think about this? >> I have it every day [laughter] with my parents. (44:05) So again like I said generation wise they were stronger >> physically mentally uh even the like for example they used to we know work it out in the fields they used to be naturally you know suscepted to the diseases and immunity again just one example the hardships that they did for example they used to walk >> take a bus or cycle all that. (44:34) So slowly slowly the lifestyle is changing. >> Now coming fast forward to 2026 we have Tesla self-driving cars. So forget even using your hands. So it takes an impact on the way we look at things the hardships psychologically, physically, mentally I feel. So the resilience I do agree older generations had it much better physically, mentally and a stress they would take it and yes maybe they would suffer keep it inside not go because psychiatrist especially in India psychiatry has been booming since I would say 20 maybe 2007 and 8 boom start now 15 especially area (45:15) co era uh the referrals to psychiatry has increased but like I they talk to themselves among the relatives and again if it is kids and this I do still hear when the kids wants to go to the therapy. Yeah. >> So like I said one therapy a lot of parents 90% per se I think will be okay because they think but the moment we say okay maybe there is something there we need to go dig deeper because it's not like a blood test it's not like that we need to dig deep and deep so it takes at least four five sessions. So when we say mother father (46:01) you know three four sessions for us to get a clearer picture then they start Blame the child. You're not emotionally strong. Again, the same thing which I told you. I used to walk 10 kilometers to the school. I used to go to the well, pick up water to shower. All those unnecessary comparisons are brought in to a topic which is not needed. (46:35) Now the topic might be I'm getting bullied at school. >> That's such a different tangent. That's like not even related to my father walking 10 kilometers. It's not related. But the parents you know do that. So what we try to teach the parents is first understand the core concept then sorry if [clears throat] your child is not willing to go in a bus is not willing to walk or do the physical exercise then you can bring in p me example. (47:01) Yeah >> you used to walk for you know 5 km to school or two shanki. So that is a good example but without having a clear knowledge of what it is just bring it in Jan and Jna good for you but it doesn't match the story but it is India we are going to be like that maybe in the future I might also tell my kids the same thing in 2022 26 >> I might because that's how we are it's our human pattern it's our wiring that I would say >> but parents unresolved trauma sometimes especially mothers do you think that passes on to the children like mental (47:43) health issues >> like genetic bias >> a lot of things have genetic bias as well even in psychiatry be for example OCD >> anxiety stress a lot of females especially >> anxiety >> yeah so anxious personality disorder it has a genetic bias genetic basis especially Most statistics show like the women you know in the childhood again they had it it becomes a personality okay >> or then OCD it's lifelong it can be you know the intensity might be brought down >> over the years because you train your habits or your body and your mind but if (48:23) it is not treated it becomes a chronic thing and your children might see you behave that way >> for example OCD uh okay there's dust here you keep on cleaning saying it over and over and you wash your hand times like after eating a meal. Now you being a kid who five years or sixes what would you think >> that is normal? You don't know that is abnormal needles naggles because we know now but at the age of five six you don't think that's and you try to mimic hey my mom watches her aunts I think that is correct >> then certain things okay when the other (48:58) people in the household say okay you as a child shouldn't be doing that many times you ask why >> now the parents don't know how to explain the why >> now if they knew how to explain the why it would be so much easier for the child to understand they'll be like a punishment then that fear sets in. They don't know why the mother is doing it. (49:19) They think it is normal but they are not allowed to do it. >> Okay. >> So if there's a genetic thing for example everyone has some carriers genetic preloading and genetic carriers like everyone might have a cancer gene. >> Yeah. So not everything is activated but under certain you know situations or environments or stressors it it is triggered and it activates or it is exemplified. (49:45) >> Okay. So now even in this condition chin punch now the daughter is in a teenagers the parent the mother didn't change she's not getting help still few traits might aggravate or get triggered maybe the anxious thing might start getting triggered she starts getting fearful she gets worried and the OCD thing starts in many different ways the daughters try to hide their anxiety or cope up with it by over cleaning their room >> okay So the patterns increase to cover the anxiety. (50:19) >> Okay. >> Why is my mother doing it? What's wrong with my mother? So 14 15 these things you know come out. Then the pattern is seen. >> Okay. The mother is there, the daughter is there. Then the family members start thinking the genetica. >> Okay. >> Like I [snorts] said it can be genetic but a lot of these behaviors are brought on by the like what you call the society or the environment. (50:41) >> Okay. Okay. >> Environmental factors are very important. They pick it up. >> They pick it up very early as young as 3, four. You clean, you clean a certain way. I can guarantee you your four-year-old child will mimic it in the certain way. For example, there's a swab, there's a circle motion, then the square motion, everything will be copied by the child in that fashion. (51:04) >> So that way, >> yeah. So since we're talking about women particularly, but like mental health issues, it goes on and on. uh it could be teenagers, PMS, you know, PMOS now. >> Yes. >> And uh also postpartum pregnancy, so many things. So how would you talk about women's mental health particularly >> women's mental health is very very important. (51:32) I would say sadly a lot of people don't understand that and like you said so this I get a lot from my female clients as well because they might be having severe disturbances during the PMS cycle or they might be you know the ovelation cycle or everything whatever menstruation is very difficult for them >> the mothers also >> but sadly that's what I feel everyone in the household needs to be educated even the males >> because they don't know what's going on when it's a gyneic issue they try to sh you know run away >> or don't even want to know about it they (52:11) say okay to the wife >> or her whatever the females in the house take care of this issue >> now mental health in the women it encompasses so many things >> be it from small small things such as anxiety marital stress >> college stress school it's starting as young as 14 12 14 >> then marriage then you know financial then job they have to balance so many things and in that managing the body is also something that they need to take care of >> age wise there's so many things >> women may have diabetes as early as 20s (52:47) and 30s these days cholesterol is increasing weight gain hair loss acne you know with stress there's so many things that people don't know >> stress and lack of proper sleep for a women can affect the skin color, the quality, the hair fall, hair density, then the acne. So this is just again what I'm saying the hormonal >> a lot of people think it is purely hormonal but they forget it is stress it is lifestyle again other things as well they might be smoking alcohol so many other things >> then uh >> proper sleep hygiene (53:22) >> have all these things lifestyle wise then these things will also help you >> medication is not the only thing medication along with you know lifestyle modifications self-help techniques help so many things >> and the other thing we need to help out in the women thing is they're not brought to the hospital soon. (53:40) >> Yeah. >> They brought in the last last stages the males come faster. >> Okay. >> At least this Yeah. If the male has stomach issue is what you call I'm having a beer or a glass of whiskey every day. Very good. Go. Women they have this for months and months till they don't show up to the hospital. Either it be like ignorance, lack of education and then again people in the house also double blood test scanning minimum local shop is what they give is again whatever they say pain gas tablet that's (54:26) it >> so the underlining thing is pushed and pushed to a stage where it is so so serious last came on for example there's a uterus issue or a fibroid or something we have to do a surgery. >> So if it was identified before it would have treated been treated in a very easier way, very minimalistic financial way without being a burden emotionally also. (54:49) Now the mother or the person has to go through it so much. >> So this is just one example. Now coming to medical example imagine psychiatric >> psychiatry is pushed first push pushed till it becomes so bad >> and they are unable to handle that person in the home >> it is when and I'm not even kidding me last two three months a lot of cases were bought by the children >> and I'm like why didn't the husband come why did your brother come no they didn't want to come >> the this is mostly again if you see those SCS and soio economic status and mostly from the lower middle class at LA (55:32) this is the thing the kids are fighting with the father and bringing the mother to the psychiatrist or the hospital for a general checkup forget psychiatric first a general checkup psychiatric I think about the fight so after the kids fight because these genz kids are now psychoeducated or they know okay psychiatry just mandul zombie chamom there's actual medical facts that we do you know that it is helping >> so the kids are bringing and I feel so so good >> but that you know the children are becoming more proactive in the family (56:06) small signs we are you know we the children are catching me video five signs you might be having this in a good way it is helping these kids to at least identify hey my mother be might be having you know some problem >> she might be depressed She might be having insomnia, sleep disorder, something. So let's get her checked. (56:27) So that is one thing is improving. But yes, the women's mental health needs a lot lot more. I feel the government also needs to step up. The awareness campaigns needs to be stepped up. Private uh hospitals can do much better job. The government I think hand in hand and again social media, news media. >> Yes. (56:51) M so that way you know that is the goal to go into the deeper deeper parts the tribals the villages and tell them look this is this disorder at least the basic one like how you say chest pain go to a cardiologist get your ECG done something like that the small small thing small flyers need to be put out saying these things our mental health or neuros >> but more than that I think the men they need to be uh educated on this because most of the time like female if she's screaming or if she's you know angry it is flagged like okay she's hormonal PMS periods (57:40) it's not always like that right so I think men need to be more educated on this >> definitely see that's why now coming into this generation. I feel it needs to start at a school level. >> Yeah. >> You know, we used to have school of uh if you remember social sciences, civic science, economics, then we used to have a moral science class. (58:02) So, moral science class, they used to teach about these things. Okay. If you have a fight, how would how you should respond? court voted on Gaza you know deescalate the situation find out what happened and then report it to the teachers or principal. So moral science class taught us that now coming to this science class there needs to be something you know more about you know uh explaining the kids at a young age what is happening with the biology. (58:32) It doesn't have to be just fever, cold, cough explain. There needs to be women classes for the at least you know kids who are at 12 13 age getting the periods for the first time [snorts] how to handle that cycles. It's not easy for them. They don't know what it is. They don't know how to wash up or maintain their hygiene. (58:52) So hygiene needs to be taught. They need to be taught it's nothing wrong. So these things mental health they can maybe you know start few sections saying we don't have to go all out we can just be like if your mother is crying >> or if your father is crying continuously he's drinking a lot tell your teachers tell your relatives at where someone a third party can help out or identify the issue and give the proper treatment. (59:18) So it can be the basic things or it can be like you know anger issues, physical abuse. Number one thing that I would say I've seen a lot is even molestation these days. >> So those things needs to be taught. Good touch, bad touch. >> You know it's done by family members >> statistic wise and even in my hospital I've seen lot of the girl childs are molested very sadly by their own family relatives, the uncles, the mamas, the chichas. (59:50) So and that goes so so so you know unexposed. >> We need to explain the kids what it is. >> When now I had a case recently uh she's 22 23 now. >> Now papam she's having traumatic dreams >> and this happened when she was 8 and 10 years old apparently >> living in her hometown where the uncle used to live in the above house. So every day he used to come down sleeping paraka he used to do these illicit activities and the girl didn't know about it. (1:00:23) This went on for few months she didn't know and then when she got older she knew what it was and it became a stage where she couldn't even tell anyone >> father chip the mother chip. >> So now she's 22 23 now she's having nightmares and traumatic flashes of her childhood for certain reasons. Uh it uh it was so random that she saw a movie or a TV show on >> Yeah. (1:00:46) >> Netflix and Atlantic seen her chin in that >> and that triggered her >> in a very bad way. So anxiety started you know negative thoughts blaming herself self harm she started punching the walls >> because of this she couldn't sleep. Then she came to us now we're doing the therapy. >> Now she has accepted it. (1:01:07) We made it a point now >> so that she was brave enough. She went and told her mother >> and her father this. >> Yeah. >> This happened like you know so many years ago. Surprising you know what the father said. The mother was shocked but she accepted. The father is still denying. God >> the father is still like and the audacity he said you dreamt about it in your dreams. (1:01:33) >> My god >> because you are eight. What do you know? And the father still doesn't agree for it. But whatever the bra, you know, the brave thing is the girl stood, you know, took a stance. She went and faced them >> uh the person who did it and the family because of you and then now she's little bit better, more confident. (1:02:00) But yeah, these are the sad things that go on a lot. So that's why I'm saying right mental health starts from the home. >> Yeah. >> Women's mental health starts from schooling and it has to be very very young age. >> But you know parents if a young girl is going through something she'll be fine. But what will happen to her marriage if she gets into it in this situation? >> It's a very tricky situation. (1:02:29) See uh marriage is in a way good >> uh sometimes it does good things companionship that uh the confidence that someone is there to you know have your back and all but if there's a serious issue with the person be it whoever the girl or the boy I would say solve it first >> then get into a marriage you don't want to carry that baggage into the relationship beat whatever Now again I would like to advocate the lot of like now this coming back to your previous question psychiatry under taboo they don't want to come to the doctor (1:03:09) why because of when they're 15 16 or 22 they get labeled and then they hide it >> yes the treatment might be still going on be it for example the boys bipolar or schizophrenic he's treated remission zero symptoms He's like near perfect in his family life, his daily life and office. They know for sure schizophrenia by plant is a huge huge it's a black dot but he's fine. (1:03:44) So they try to say he's they cover it up basically. Then after some time the wife will obviously every day 24 hours low at least once you will notice some change. >> Yeah. He might have one bad day where he might act very differently or he's taking certain pills. He's going to say, "I'm taking vitamins. I'm taking my, you know, supplements or neuromds. (1:04:04) " At some point, the wife is going to start questioning and doubt and then she's going to catch that tablet sheet and be like, "Hey, what is this? I'm going to Google it. Oh, it's lithium. Oh, it's for bipolar. Oh, psychiatry." Everything is gone. Everything is like it's a war zoning. very very bad scenes out there and this is very common. (1:04:25) So now and coming to this if it's mentally like a psychiatric patient or be it anything it can be autoimmune disorder it can be a obesity case or a cancer patient whatever hiding is not good but now again marriage again is not the solution. So coming back to you marriage. Now what are the situations we see there? It can be number one the guy the girl is little bit a free bird. (1:04:55) >> She likes to argue with her father. She gets her way like a tomboy. So what we say the guy will take care of you. Second, uh there might be okay relationship that the girl has already been in which the family is not okay with be intercast or a love marriage. Then they break it up and then this falls into place before someone else gets to know about it and your options for future matches are gone. (1:05:26) Or third, it is in the culture. A lot of communities have where the girl is married at the age of 18 19 the you know the education is stopped their career is stopped the job is stopped and it becomes a housewife role or a homemaker so again the internal but coming to is it right or wrong it's a personal thing it's a communal thing community and societal thing but yeah what I would say is be it a marriage at 18 be it a marriage at 25 hell you can marry at 50 that's your wish but the maturity needs to be there the emotional maturity are you mature enough to marry (1:06:05) because now I have a few cases they're both first relationship they didn't have any previous boyfriend or girlfriend or a dating thing now they put into a marriage arranged now they're fighting for everything they don't know how to handle the other person's emotions first of all emotion handle they're expecting or expected to handle the other person's as well. (1:06:29) >> Yes. >> So that is not going to happen. So that's why you need to be mature enough, emotionally mature to handle your own emotions first. And when you're ready for marriage, you'll know. >> And if you're ready, go for it. It's a very beautiful thing. Yes, it is like a roller coaster. (1:06:47) It'll have its ups and downs, but unless you're ready. If you have a baggage, if you have certain things in your life which uh are not going to be solved immediately, deal with them first. Tawata go into the marriage because unnecessarily you don't want the other person to know later. Tarvata being in India, it's going to be a family family drama. (1:07:10) It's going to be a mahabharat and then everyone's going to come to the psychiatrist uh family package or whatever. But then it becomes really tough to deal with it. But then again, marriage is good. Being pressurized is not good. >> Yes, >> that's what I would feel. >> I want to talk about the epidemic most countries are labeling as one loneliness. (1:07:33) We are supposed to be the most connected uh generation and they we could be surrounded by so many friends and yet feel alone. So what do you think about that? >> It is very true. I mean loneliness is it's it's been there since generations and centuries. It's nothing new but coming from this generational aspect it is definitely on the rise based on the data and the statistics that we have now we are what we call this is a hyperconnected world be it the social media the digital and the physical it's hyperconnected and in that sense what is (1:08:10) happening is due to certain things loneliness anxiety depression is increasing >> now it can be multifaceted think reasons. It's not just one. We cannot just blame uh digital media and all. Yes. Go to the school, go to the walk, talk to people, social activities, social living was there, play in a group sport, play, you know, go to the movies together, go to the hotels and restaurants and even pubs together. (1:08:39) But now everything you do it solo. You watch on a TV, on a phone, it's solo. You can't have an iPhone and have 10 people watch it together. It's not possible. Now games, everyone's onto the playing video games. Again, that is one thing. Uh again, community events are decreasing. Then coming back to the other previous question, comparison, >> yeah, >> confidence is coming down. (1:09:06) They want to be happening wearing Gucci, Armani, whatever. They don't have it. They don't want to go to that party. So now if you have that for example Gucci bag then only I want to go to that party. That's how you're fixing your mind because certain X Y Z people are going to be there from that social status. (1:09:26) I don't want to be compared. I don't want to be small. >> That is also one thing. So avoidance behavior is happening a lot I feel. And then coming back to the spectrum they think they're happy alone but no one is going to be happy alone. I feel you. It's an it's a mirage. It's a facade. It's a temporary thing. So I would say being loneliness being happy it's good for certain days but on the long run it's never good and loneliness happiness is good or I am happy being lonely. (1:09:58) It's a false statement. Never believe anyone who says that I feel. >> But what about these parents particular parents cities or they left here alone. So that is another level of loneliness I feel. Very good question Magna the thing again Indian society we were always a joint society joint families now it's all nuclear nuclear no one is playing staying in the same place for long it's like jumping you are in Bangalore then next month you're in Hyderabad next month Delhi next one different country so state a state I mean like a physical state (1:10:34) you'll have that consistency a good group of people lifestyle like habits rhythm or like same thing activities you do in a way which keeps you grounded. >> Yes. >> Now such speed things such hyperconnected things nothing is going to keep you grounded. >> So it is working for the current generation. Okay. (1:10:56) You're that hyper you're that uh what do you call hip and happening very good but the older generations it's not going to be happening even with age. Now yes parents are going to be left alone. If you have the financial backing, if you have the capacity, yes, you can keep them in your home. Uh hire a caretaker or nanny and you know they're with you >> taking care in your house and you can do your thing. (1:11:21) Go to your office morning, take care of own kids. But if that's not feasible, grandparents or sorry the parents or the grandparents are you know voluntarily choosing to go back to the native places >> now it is good also I feel. All friends circle that sense of togetherness or safety is always there. City low grand aged person I would say grandparents or no person about 60 70 said I am happy or I feel safe. (1:11:51) No one especially in the high-rise apartments it is good kam in the country at least evening every day 6:00 they come down they walk or they have that gatherings but nothing is the same as their hometowns now sadly in this world in this lifestyle generation it's not going to happen but if you are financially able to definitely hire a caretaker or a medical nurse and the parents can be there and just once in a go do visit them as much as possible. (1:12:22) Send your cricket kids your you know so that they have that grand grandparents grandchild union as well and uh see how it works. I'm not saying this will work for everyone. Do what works for you. Try it. But leaving parents alone not taking care of them sadly again salary reasons we cannot blame anyone. It can be so many reasons. (1:12:46) Uh so I work with the gediatric uh rehab as well in kukat paliki atula and duro where it's a home senior living assisted living so we have apartment style each uh person has its own room male female couples go to naru >> husband wife they have a couple room two beds side by side and we as doctors we provide nursing home like the caretakers and we are providing 24/7 okay >> and then the same thing uh Morning we do some exercises physiootherapy. (1:13:17) Evening they come sit in the venda parking lot and then they have the games and sports. So I felt that is a very good uh you know initiative that the company has taken. Uh it's an Chennai based company. >> Okay. >> And they did a fantastic job the hygiene the medical care. Uh I recently joined the organization because I was tied up with a few others. (1:13:41) Uh sadly for whatever reasons again. So you offer mental health to them? >> Yes, we offer all. It's like assisted living. There are medical sugar BP patients who are paralysis patients, neuro patients, mental health patients would like old age again there's dementia cases which are there Alzheimer's dementia. So that is majorly seen in old age. (1:14:04) So they are so uh affected mentally they don't even remember the kids faces anymore. They don't even know how to brush their own teeth. Those are severe cases. We have two or three of those. So for them we have assisted packages where you know nurse 24/7 then the nurse takes care of the patient and kids could they're coming every weekends they come spend 2 three hours with them. (1:14:27) It's like a mini community. So I think that is something initiative if we take like we can do it our own community. We don't even have to start a company for it. society neighborhood law if you have neighbors Saturday we can be like let's all sit together for 1 hour >> get the old people out >> okay >> it can be randomly assigned to whoever has the biggest house in the neighborhood who has a garden just put a chairs carum boards should start ji just to start ji play even you know or some cards that is good cognitive exercise good community bonding and that's like a (1:15:04) social responsibility that we can Yes, >> as citizens. >> So I believe that is something that we can do if you don't have the time just with your neighbors start once a week >> and you know that'll be like a get together also a small kitty party for the seniors. >> I know we spoke about everyone parents women but we missed [snorts] out on the larger uh part of our audience which are men. (1:15:30) >> We never talk about men's mental health. So how do you address that? >> So the beauty with meni they are coming out more nowadays. In my own practice I've been practicing for like 13 14 years. It was very hard to convince a man saying okay n problem he knows okay let's just take uh financial issues he starts drinking now he has depression stress and alcohol addiction see you have this boss come on let's start somewhere he does not agree to it that he has a problem (1:16:14) >> denial was number one issue unless his liver got damaged his kidneys got damaged sugar spike he's forcefully admitted in the ICU is when the change would be brought on >> or uh family members would forcefully bring the person and admit in a deaddiction center or a rehab but now people are especially men or voluntarily and that is very beautiful to see it might be a very small problem it might be a huge problem they are coming forward and saying I feel something wrong, I want to get it checked. (1:16:52) >> Okay. >> And please tell me if there's something wrong with me. >> And that is how we start. And that is >> the men or younger. >> Uh it is all age groups. >> Okay. >> The gentleman who came last like this on his own without his wife's knowledge was 60 plus. >> Yeah. because of his stress he was having BP fluctuations and all title on Instagram not mine someone else's but linking mental health and uh blood pressure he said I didn't even go to my cardiologist doctor I came directly to a psychiatrist which was very good so Idi (1:17:30) and but again it is very true and men don't cry that often men hide their emotions because they are the foundation for the family they are the uh the element of the face. So they have to put put up this brave front, confident front and again they're human at the end. Some people are yes stronger, more emotionally resilient and uh easy to not easy sorry very hard to break. (1:17:58) Some people are you know weak emotionally less confident. They're very anxious easy to emotional uh you know distress. They can't handle pressure that easily. they break easily. There's nothing wrong in it. uh the mal you know the statement is oh I'm not man enough in moonic again I would say that is you know garbage to be honest every person is different every male female everyone is different so all have the pros all are the cons now coming to openness the fear is there >> number one fear doctor >> so that is where now we are openly (1:18:38) saying that is not how we proceed yes we do the testing we do the medical labs we do the psychological labs we do the counseling yes when the medication is needed open you can also discuss with your doctor which tablets you want to use which you don't want to use then we try to you know make a system where you are happy I'm happy middle ground and definitely 1 month 2 months try cheddar low in tapu >> see people are afraid to use psychiatric medications my question to everyone out there is why are you not afraid of using (1:19:10) the BP medications. Why are you not afraid about using audu? Everyone is on the injections. Ompic everyone has side effects >> or take a do almost every day. >> Exactly. There every tablet has a side effect. You Google it up. >> Yeah. >> Now ompic had so many side effects. Where did that go? Where did the fear go? Everyone ran to the hospital saying I want the shots. (1:19:34) And trust me, there was a shortage. At one point in Hyderabad there was a shortage of vigori oric because so many people took it off label without the prescriptions without the doctor's authorization as well. Now yes every injection every medication has its pros and cons. Now we are the experts. We being MBBS and MD and DMs we know when to stop the medication. (1:20:01) If the patient is really in distress or side effects are very bad, we stop and then we alter, we change. No tablet is perfect. So the same way uh we uh started off with our older medications but now the research in neuro and psychiatric and neuroscychiatric field is going so fast europlow new new tablets are coming out without the side effect profiles of before. Yes. (1:20:27) >> Now, yes, we do still use medications which were invented in 1970s, which were found in 1980s, uh, and they still work good, but again, they might not suit you. >> They might suit someone, but we need to do the trial for that. But now, a lot of people are preferring the new ones like the second genum, third generation medications which were recently found 2010. (1:20:50) >> Yes. >> Post 2020, 2020. So those drugs are having more less side effects. But then again, everyone has its own favorite. I might like biryani from say one hotel, you might like it from another hotel. So it's personal preference also at the end. But uh as a normal person to a doctor you know about these drugs the medical u you know I mean mental health psychiatric pills or um too like you'll get addicted you'll act like a zombie so much goes online and people talk about it but how far is it true everyone so scared of these I like how (1:21:31) you brought it up >> what do you think like why are people so scared about it >> because number one I feel it was portrayed in the oldest cinemas, oral media, print media and it was it is true. I mean the way the severe like I said the ignorance, lack of awareness severe condition and then we had to do severe treatments for it. (1:21:58) For example, there's a cardiac patient who had a stroke emergency. We do stenting and all all those cardiac interventional procedures. Why do you do it? We do it because it is needed. Yes. And there are high-end procedures. It's not like a small uh open things are not open bypass surgeries are not a small thing. It's lifethreatening also. (1:22:17) But we do it because we need it. So rao psychiatric patients dr and in that terminal condition we had to do very you know very dangerous techniques or very uh interventional techniques also for example ect >> which is shock therapy. simple words slow law shock treatment electroconvental therapy and and then it used to be in the US law and all the European countries have even more severe uh things where they had to lobotomy and lobotization. (1:22:49) So they used to take a small needle and a hammer and you know through the nose and go into the brain and pick one point where the emotional center and the frontal lobe at they tap it and the needle goes and that damages that uh you know neuronal center in the brain just the patients used to be zombies. (1:23:07) It's like almost destroying a part of the brain. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And the brain stops functioning and then high doses would the older drugs severe drugs powerful ones you had to sedate him. You had to make him a zombie for say per there's a good case studies if ever you have time please visit Google there long long stories from 1950s and '7s asylums US law mental asylums very fascinating intriguing stories so for example there's a serial murderer who had murder at least murdered 20 30 people now how would you treat such a person or control such a person So he (1:23:45) had to be put on very very high doses and they had to zombify him because of worry where he would kill a guard. >> Okay. >> Okay. Female nurse neck snap just and these people Americans as you know Caucasians or be the African-Americans they're huge. The height the built the body physical structure is very different from us Indians. (1:24:08) So they can you know break a neck a in a second laga. So out of fear or out of necessity we had to do it and then became media. The movies the Alfred Hitchcock uh the black and white cinemas the murder dramas are the people started you know imagining psychiatry only as limited to that. Okay >> only pul treat just and again picholu is such a very vague word. (1:24:32) >> See you can have anxiety we treat it. You can have insomnia we treat it. That doesn't mean you're mentally ill. You know those are behavioral or like physiological things that the brain is going through. So coming to this over the period of time again awareness and all happened in the US >> FDA approval under the FDA is again food drug administration which author like gives a green signal this is safe you can use it. (1:24:59) >> Yeahanti drug >> it's not like we use some you know magical treatments from the pharmacy company. No, we use all standardized uh good you know good imported products or domestically made like you know there's so many Sunfarma uh big famous brands Atlante so now the image has changed now movies there's so many movies Shah Rukh Khan did a movie where is a psychiatrist >> uh so tears in the key >> yeah so I there's so many nice size movies where you portray the psychiatrist not as a villain giving shock only or even Now injection do you (1:25:39) see they poke it in the needle press person fails. So all these things you know are you know don't happen that easily these days. So the image is changing the fantasy is changing. We are no longer the the devils or the danger doctors. We are also you know pleasant people. We are also good soft people. So awareness again, news media, uh, social media, digital media, everything is having an impact positively. (1:26:08) Everything will have a negative impact as well. But now I see openly I can say positivity overwways or overshadows the negatives and that is good for the for everyone in fact >> but you uh specialize in something called as TMS if I'm not wrong which most of us haven't heard of. So now how I started with uh there were a lot of techniques like oldite ect then came many many interventional techniques because they were experimenting in a whole lot of way lobotomy on day there were other techniques also with giving high infused (1:26:41) sedation low they try to mimic changes in the brain. So now these techniques what are happening in the research wise new is called neuromodulation. >> Okay. >> So neuromodulation techniques now we have ketamin therapy. Ketamin is again a drug, anesthesia drug uh that is used for anxiety and uh depression. (1:27:03) So again it's feared by a lot of patients because they Google anesthesia oh anesthesia drug will I die or will I take it? I will not wake up from that sleep. Uh so these things are there but these are research to calm down the brain or bring the chemical changes into your brain. We are forcing them with these chemicals and trying to stabilize or normalize. (1:27:24) So shock therapy is electrical current which goes to the brain and you know we try to stabilize the chemicals and it is beautiful. ECT is very safe. We give it again with anesthesia. Older times they used to give it directly and directly they used to hold down the patient put a rubber thing so that tongue is not bitten and directly temple or scalp mida two electrodes and then past current. (1:27:52) It was again Starting low very high voltage patient would be brain fried or all that but this again 1900s world war time slow then the technology or research increase now we know the current in the exact point we know how to give the dosing of the current and it's very safe >> it's beautifully used in patients with severe suicidal ideation aggression pathological self harm patterns to themsel or others severe aggression bipolar So instantly patient cool down that is a very beautiful technique. (1:28:26) >> Okay. >> Now with research we have come to RTMS or TMS which is again transcranial magnetic stimulation. >> Okay. So the same thing electrodes certain electricity these waves resonating magnetic waves or something to it's like a helmet the other things are like electrodes where we place on the brain the technician or the doctor or the you know neuroscientist does it and it's like a 15 to 20 minute procedure >> so then we identify the regions of the brain it's not like think of this as a brain I cannot get everywhere (1:29:00) >> so it has to be certain areas of the brain where I give frontal prefrontal contact, dorsal lateral contact, prefrontal cortex and atla. So we identify those regions and we put those uh electrodes and they pass those waves. You just have to you know sleep just close your eyes and relax music and then you just have to relax. (1:29:23) Sometimes there might be certain sensitive people that wave causes tingling sensation passing because it is literally like a ring you know current passing through your brain and your nerves. So that tingling sensation people are sensitive then we have to identify why then we decrease the dosing or we don't give it a lot new new techniques are coming now we have deep TMS which is like a proper helmet you just put it on your helmet uh enter the settings >> this is just to balance the chemicals >> yes and it is basically identify for (1:29:53) what reason you're giving so for deepms we give it for depression anxiety kota research is coming out for smoking session addiction patterns but we use it more for uh depression and anxiety and OCD. >> That's so cool. >> Yeah. So, it's like a helmet. You just wear a helmet, you sit for 20 minutes, you close your eyes, relax. (1:30:14) And that's the latest technology right now. >> Okay. >> Deep TMS. It's expensive as well, but it's very easy. You just enter the settings, you know what to do, select your areas and press start, and the machine does the work for you and but the doctor or the technician or the staff nurse has to be there just to see nothing bad happens and which is very very rare. (1:30:34) So a lot of changes in this department is happening. So it is called neurom modulation. >> Okay. >> We are trying to modulate the things chemically in the brain the neuro. >> So lot of things will come up in the future. Definitely in maybe next 5 years or 10 years you will see new new machines coming up new new techniques coming up. (1:30:54) There's also a surgery where we do the neurosurgery team you know for severe cases where there's movement disorders or like neuro disorders. uh we implant a small chip DBS deep brain stimulation movies chip we implant it into the brain region >> brain okay >> so that is to conduct or modulate on the own so where the movements exactly if it's like involuntary like jerks you're unable to control so that chip in a way you know modulates it or the you know regulates in the certain region to stop the movement >> okay so it chala chala wonderful (1:31:28) researches are going on >> so cool what you just mentioned about TMS. So, doctor, but can you really be honest? Do people actually get better or they just learn like pattern or do they actually get better? >> So, a lot of it depends on the person I feel. Like for example there was an accident you lost your legs you get your you know artificial implants you get your thing but you need to have that willpower to do the physiootherapy to do that work yes you can walk again you can run again >> recently movie the same thing you need to have that (1:32:13) determination to do something that willpower is innate it is different for you different for me but somewhere you need to you know even if it is not there you need to bring it and we do it from a third party like the doctor, the counseling, the psychotherapy. So we call it CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy. (1:32:35) So we try to you know teach the person his behavioral changes and you know patterns which will bring about a positive change. The goal is you know for example the goal is to bring certain change. You have to do certain things a to get that zed change. >> Okay. Okay. For example, anxiety, you have a stage fear. >> So, we will try to, you know, expose exposure therapy or something like that. (1:32:58) Then we try to give you the confidence. Then we start giving you the mic. We start pushing you, you know, talk first best friend. Talk in front of your parents. Then start the small crowd. Talk in front of your school assembly. Then talk in front of the camera. These we are trying to break the patterns and give that confidence. (1:33:15) But the person should also be participating in it. And yes when you do all these things definitely that Z goal which is speaking confidently in people in front of people like 100 giving a lecture in front of a class or even a crowd >> it becomes very easy and yes Danta assisted we do medications comes in anti-depressant anti-anxiety medications uh all these things to help the starting stages they might not be permanent but at least for the first four months you're going through therapy and you're trying to modify yourself low we give the medications to calm you. (1:33:50) When you're calm, you do that activity. If you're not calm, you can't do that activity >> for sure. >> If you're like shaking like this, you can't even, you know, stand in front of a stage or hold a mic or even talk properly. You're going to stutter. You're going to stammer. So those things all are look at it's a holistic treatment. (1:34:11) But people definitely do get better. I would say 80 90% for sure overall holistically if you approach the treatment be it psychiatry neur neurology also we work together with all the departments we work with medicine we work with neurology neurosurgery and we are the psychiatry or neuroscychiatric department then we work with the psychology department as well so overall if you say serious cases would take I won't lie uh we call it treatment refractory or some rare cases which even with medication patients or doing all the procedures nothing works. They are (1:34:44) the you know sadly the most serious of the serious cases. >> So for example you must have heard antibiotics >> resisted treatment resistant. So TB treatment resistant anti-TB or this psych we have certain cases where it is so bad the person is delusional for so longer treatment for example the ghost goes away in the morning. (1:35:22) Yeah, >> that is so you know rigid and every day has been put on to you and no one helped you for whatever reason sadly you didn't get the right treatment it becomes almost like permanent >> okay >> and for this person now if in 50s 60s uh comes up to us and says we'll definitely help we'll definitely do our ECTs our RTMS our our antisycchotics and all those treatments and therapy but it becomes very hard they might be improvement But they may not be also 100% deployment. (1:35:56) So that is something that we'll have to live with. We Atlantic parents in family members coach how to deal with certain how to make it better situational how you can also as a family member because we won't be there 24/7. So we teach the parents, we teach the caregivers or the family members what to do in certain situations if the patient is uh very very out of control Ga. (1:36:21) But because of lifelong and they have to live with it sadly but like any other disease medical or surgical even psychiat is the same we can treat it there are certain uh unavoidable circumstances where it becomes very hard for us to treat as well but like I said we don't give up there is always 100% commitment that we show and it is a chronic thing it can be a lifelong thing mental illness you need to understand is a journey >> it can be acute like say it can last for just few days, few weeks, it can be months, it can be years. (1:36:57) >> Yeah. >> So that journey is what you need to be you know ready for and everything you know with the proper treatment goes very smoothly at least from what we see the new techniques that you mentioned the medications and therapy they're doing wonders. So everyone watching us right now um and feeling maybe I should also pay a visit to a psychiatrist. (1:37:19) What would you tell them? >> I would tell please do not hesitate. Please do not take a break. If you are confused with who to reach out with, uh you can ask your friends and family. They are the best source because someone I guarantee you Magna someone must have visited a therapist or a psychiatrist or a doctor and nearby areas if you want Google the Google you can go to corporate hospitals nowadays majority not even majority I would say all the corporate hospitals have a psychiatry department so be the big ones like arit (1:37:51) kims kamini yoda everyone has psychiatrist departments in it you can reach out there but to make it even more comfortable go to a doctor who your family or friends recommend. >> How do they find you? >> You can find me at Arit. You can find me at uh my clinic in Jibli Hills on Google. (1:38:11) So, you can uh hit me up by my name on Google and I'm very easy to reach out. My my assistant in my clinic has my mobile number. Uh my corporate we have a call center. My assistants are there. So we are always available 24/7 beat 12:00 a.m. 2 a.m. >> It's amazing. >> Yeah. Thank you. We are readily available. Even a 2:00 a.m. (1:38:33) call, we are ready to pick up because uh I bet I've been taught by my professor when I was a student. The first thing he told me was give your mobile number to your patient. We are like no why I want to sleep. I have a very hectic day. He was like no because we are psychiatry. What if a patient is standing at the you know edge of a building at say 2 or 3 in the morning and says I want to commit suicide because I lost my job or I was falsely framed in a criminal case by the police or whatever. (1:39:05) That is when you pick up that call and give 30 seconds comfort like just comfort him >> reassurance >> reassurance comfort him be nice don't g no just whatever it is he will not have complete time to explain you his story but okay calm down just take a step back go to your bed drink water call your friend or give what we used to do is give your friends or spouses your family number and we used to call them from another number and be like chand babu or whatever is on the terrace please immediately go till that time we try to deescalate the situation and that (1:39:40) was done in my early student days and that still sticks with me now and I've made it a routine by in my team or me or my juniors or whoever my colleagues we make it a rule that you have to take a call if it's a psychiatry because no one calls you say drun it is always going to be a serious call if they call you in the night >> yes >> and uh that is where uh uh we've been trying to do our thing and uh we do get a lot of calls and even the government has started national help lines like Tymanas if you know of Nimhans Bangalore (1:40:15) there's Telman started by the Modi BJP government central government that is also 24/7 available but even if you don't get the correct response sadly sometimes it does happen >> the call is put on hold the call doesn't connect there's so many other things you can get like I said call the local doctors or like we are there available now. (1:40:38) So do your information prior get the information through Google or family and friends and nearby hospitals help is always available and don't be shy to reach out. Number one rule is we keep things confidential. We do not if the clause is there if you say do not tell my parents and if you're like 18 major >> we do you know we are obliged to it we respect it but unless there is like threat to your life threat to safety and all then we are you know like you know we have to take that professional responsibility and inform someone because you are not doing well. (1:41:11) >> Yes. >> So what we do promise is confidentiality. No one is going to know you came to us nor neither your best friends, your family if you want it that way. >> But I would encourage it to be open >> to share it with your you know family and friends because they are the best therapists first then we are the professionals for it. (1:41:31) >> That is my message for everyone. >> Lastly, a very interesting question. If you had to put one sentence on uh billboards across Hyderabad about mental health, what would it be? Oh, tough one. [laughter] There's so many that come to mind. But one thing I would I would say is uh you're not alone. Maybe that is the pitch. (1:41:59) Mental health, you have it. You are not alone. Everyone has their own story. Your own family or your own housemate, there will be one or two people suffering from mental health issues. your neighborhood, your office, co-workers, everyone has something or the other going on in their life. Be it medical problems, be it surgical, uh psychological, psychiatric. (1:42:22) So don't think it's just you that you're alone. India is a big country. A lot of problems are there. Don't worry. >> That's amazing. Thank you so much for such an insightful conversation, Dr. >> Thank you so much, Ma. Thank you for having me over. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> [music]
