How To Raise Mentally Resilient Children (According To Science) | Dr. Shefali
Author Name:Alyssa Nobriga MA
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Title: How To Raise Mentally Resilient Children (According To Science) | Dr. Shefali
Author Name: Alyssa Nobriga MA
Description: If you're ready to transform your life + business 👉 Apply to the Institute for Coaching Mastery here:
https://www.alyssanobriga.com/apply
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Have you ever wondered why your child suddenly stops talking to you, or why the smallest thing sets off a meltdown you didn't see coming?
In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Shefali, the clinical psychologist and bestselling author who helped bring conscious parenting into the mainstream. She's spent decades showing parents that how we react to our kids often says more about us than it does about them.
We get into why so many kids today struggle to sit with discomfort, a simple question that can stop a trigger before it turns into a blowup, and why boys and girls need to be parented in very different ways. Dr. Shefali also shares her framework for spotting old conditioning before it repeats itself with the next generation.
If you've ever felt like you're doing everything right and still losing your patience, this one will meet you right where you are. Tune in for a conversation that might change how you see your child, and yourself.
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Episode Timestamps:
00:00 – Intro: traps parents fall into with conscious parenting
01:24 – Raising resilient kids in a world of overindulgence
05:39 – What conscious parenting really means
07:44 – Using your child as a mirror for your own growth
09:09 – "The child is not the project; the parent is" understanding projection
12:37 – It's okay to get triggered normalizing the parenting journey
17:14 – The three-step Parenting Map framework
21:00 – Letting your kids be your teachers
23:14 – Codependency disguised as helpful parenting
25:36 – Core differences between raising sons and daughters
29:03 – Supporting daughters who feel less confident
31:32 – Why telling girls to "be nice" silences their voice
34:44 – Helping daughters break people-pleasing patterns
37:22 – The contradictory messages we send our sons
40:01 – Why sons go quiet, and what healthy masculinity looks like
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Guest Bio
Dr. Shefali received her doctorate in clinical psychology from Columbia University. Specializing in the integration of Western psychology and Eastern philosophy, she brings together the best of both worlds for her clients. She is an expert in family dynamics and personal development, teaching courses around the globe. She has written four books, three of which are New York Times best-sellers, including her two landmark books The Conscious Parent and The Awakened Family.
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Guest Links
Website: https://www.drshefali.com/
Facebook: / doctorshefali
Instagram: / doctorshefali
TikTok: / doctorshefali
YouTube: / drshefali
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Website: https://www.alyssanobriga.com/
Instagram: / alyssanobriga
TikTok: / alyssanobriga
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6b5s2xb...
Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
If you're ready to transform your life + business 👉 Apply to the Institute for Coaching Mastery here: https://www.alyssanobriga.com/apply
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Alyssa Nobriga International, LLC - Disclaimer
This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or any other qualified professional. We shall in no event be held liable to any party for any reason arising directly or indirectly for the use or interpretation of the information presented in this video. Copyright 2023, Alyssa Nobriga International, LLC - All rights reserved.
Transcript:
(00:00) What are some of the things that parents fall into as traps when they're trying to be more conscious in their parenting? >> Conscious parenting is not just about healing trauma. It's not just about being a gentle parent. It's about how am I understanding and attuning to what my child needs from me in this moment.
(00:16) Before you even react to your tantruming toddler, before you even yell at your obnoxious teenager, you have to go, "Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. What's coming up for me right now?" >> I know you say that the child is not the project that the parent is. Can you help parents understand [music] how doing their own work will support them in not projecting onto their kids? >> Oh my goodness.
(00:37) So, we have to first accept that >> So happy that you're here. >> goodness. Thank you for having me. >> I wanted to start off by asking you because I know you talk about that we're raising fragile children because they're no longer having the capacity to be resilient. We've removed those things. How do we support our kids in being healthier and having more healthy friction so they can grow that resilience? >> It's so hard today because the world has changed so fast and now we have so many indulgences.
(01:06) We don't have to think about directions anymore. Everything is handed to us. We don't have to wait for food anymore. Everything is by a click of the button. Everything is at the palm of our hand. And so these conveniences are wonderful on the one hand, but what they do create in in us and our children is an incapacity to struggle.
(01:28) >> Mhm. >> We've now lost the muscle to struggle. And struggle will come in life. You can try to pad life as much as you want. There will be natural disasters. There will be life disasters. There will be death. There will be illness. There will be delays. There will be mistakes because we're still human.
(01:50) So, when we overindulge and overbuffer our systems while [snorts] we allow for ease and comfort, too much of that then creates actually an atrophy of the muscle of resilience, grit, empowerment, courage. And I see that with our young generations, they cannot even wait if their Uber Eats order has pickle and I they said no to the pickle.
(02:18) >> Mhm. [laughter] >> I mean, come on. The other day my daughter ordered something from a CVS and I kind of lost it. I was like, you ordered from a CVS? >> [laughter] >> Like [gasps] she's like, yeah. >> Yeah. >> And poor thing didn't understand. Well, I order from everywhere else. I'm ordering from every restaurant.
(02:36) I'm ordering Why shouldn't I order from CVS an ointment? >> Uh-huh. >> I was like, you didn't drive there? You didn't First of all, you're driving our new car. You couldn't even drive your new car there? >> [laughter] >> I would be I'd have to walk. I'd have to wait. I'd have to ask my mom. I'd have to get bus money.
(02:52) >> That's what >> Even your new car, you couldn't drive? >> Yeah. >> I couldn't believe it. And she was looking at me like I was an alien. I was looking at her like she was [laughter] an alien. And I wanted to blame her and scream at her and say, "This is why our generation says you're entitled.
(03:06) " But I knew that we had created this. Like I've given her this idea or our generations have given them the idea that everything's on a fingertip. >> Yeah. And it's funny how we may look at how we were raised and compare it to them. And then what I'm hearing you say is like, and how am I participating in that? >> Yes. >> And what I love what you're sharing is the why.
(03:26) So that the struggle actually supports them in creating their resiliency, their their ability to cope with the natural challenges that will come up in life. >> Yes. And now because we've so created entitlement and indulgence and comfort and ease, now what do we do? Like there is no friction. Like so I could look at yesterday and think to myself, she had no friction all day.
(03:46) All day there was a car with gas. Her pets were taken care of. There was no, you know, torrential downpour of rain. There was There was a beau- It was a beautiful day. So, what do we do, right? When we lived in uh hunter-gatherer tribes, as we were wired to live evolutionarily, we had friction every day.
(04:07) Right? There were no mattresses, there was no food stocked in the fridge, there were no cans, there was no anything. So, now we've gone the other extreme where we've over-infused our children's lives with every possible comfort and our own. >> Mhm. >> So, now you have to think to yourself, "Okay, how do I create friction? How do I introduce friction?" Well, you have to now think about it.
(04:28) >> Yeah. >> You know, maybe you give them a budget. Maybe you tell them that they have to learn to wait for things now. If even though you could afford it and you could give it, and sure you could go to McDonald's, but now you wait for 10 days because because we just have to learn how to wait now. >> Yeah. >> Because there is no waiting.
(04:46) We've taken away delayed gratification. We've taken away thinking for ourselves. And now we have to reintroduce analog back into their life. >> And talk to me about conscious parenting. What are some of the things that parents fall into as traps when they're trying to be more conscious in their parenting? >> So, conscious parenting, just for people to know, when I started talking about this 16, 17 years ago when your when your daughter was a baby.
(05:11) Back then, no one was talking about, you know, looking within them- You remember, yeah? And it was considered revolutionary, right? I remember Oprah taking me on her show and saying, "This is revolutionary!" >> [laughter] >> And now it's become such a wonderfully commonplace thing, right? Such a good thing. But, uh conscious parenting in a nutshell is for the parent to really examine their own conditioning, their own belief systems, and how they are maneuvering, manipulating, exploiting their children to fulfill their own ego.
(05:41) Okay? So, it's a lot of inner work you have to do as a parent. So, now in terms of the traps is many times parents will think that oh, because I've healed my trauma or because I'm being so gentle, the trap is that they think they're being conscious, right? Consciousness is not just about healing trauma and conscious parenting is not just about being a gentle parent.
(06:02) It's it's way more than that. It's about how am I understanding and attuning to what my child needs from me in this moment. This child may need a boundary. This child may need a hug. That child may need me to leave them alone. How do I know what each child needs? That is conscious parenting. Is attuning to their development and seeing what skills does this child need for me right now? And yesterday I was really tough with them and I was like, "That's not okay and you have to pay me back and I need a boundary around that." But today
(06:38) I'm seeing that they need empathy and they need validation and they need me to really listen. So it's a it's a day-by-day, moment-by-moment, highly attuned approach which takes space. You have to have the inner space to show up >> Yeah. >> and to be in beginner's mind and to come without your preconceptions.
(06:59) It takes a lot of high discipline from the parent. >> Kids are going to help you heal. I mean, I think I love the word attunement that you used because some parents aren't even attuned to their own needs, let alone what the child needs. >> Exactly. >> parenthood is a spiritual path, is a personal development path. >> that's what I teach.
(07:14) >> Yeah. >> That use this relationship as a mirror to look at your own unhealed self and ask yourself, "How is this moment showing me how I need to grow up?" >> Yeah. >> Right? Before you even react to your tantruming toddler, before you even yell at your obnoxious teenager, you have to go, "Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.
(07:35) What what's coming up for me right now? Because I need to look at this." And that question will save you from reacting and that question will take you deeper. >> Mhm. >> And let me tell you, every time I've not asked this question, I've blown it, I've ruined the moment, I've screwed it up. >> Yeah. >> But every time I've asked this question, everything I was so angry about, I was convinced it was the other person.
(08:01) Just by giving this pause and saying, >> [snorts] >> "Okay, this must be about me in some way, in some way. >> Yeah. >> Uh I've co-created it in some way. I've got to look at my co-creation and it takes a lot of valor and courage to do that." >> Yeah. And I think also even the ability to repair is teaching with the kids how to repair.
(08:21) So it's all it can all be used. >> Yes. >> I know you say that the child is not the project, that the parent is. And I love this. And I know in psychotherapy, when people would bring us their kids as the problem, we would really look at the parents. But can you help parents understand how doing their own work will support them in not projecting onto their kids? >> Oh my goodness.
(08:43) So we have to first accept that we are 99.9% projecting on everything. >> What's the 1% where we're not? >> I don't know. When we're sleeping. >> Right? [laughter] When we're like we're on like our stomach is hurting. >> It's something that is almost tragically unavoidable. >> Mhm. >> You and I projecting on each other right now.
(09:01) Whether we like each other, what kind of people we are, how much should I share? >> Yeah. >> But I'm always deciding, "Oh, she's trustworthy." I don't know that, right? I mean it works in our favor, but think about it, right? >> Yeah. >> Oh, I like the color of her eyes, so she reminds me of someone I know or the opposite, right? And we're constantly doing this.
(09:18) So imagine, if I'm doing it with you and I haven't met you before, how much more do we do it to a child that we believe is ours and came from us? We're like, "I know you." >> Mhm. >> So we won't even stop to to accept that it could all be a projection. Because we're like, "I know you. I've lived with you. You're your mom." So that's where it can get dangerous because we're we're stamping onto the other our reality, our experiences, our intellect, even our capacities.
(09:47) Right? I do this to my daughter in this very profound way. I came to America when I was 21 years old as an [snorts] immigrant. I didn't have family, I didn't have money, I didn't have connections. I was lonely, I was scared, and I was a survivor. And man, I projected onto her constantly because she's 23, and she's not a survivor because she has everything, right? She doesn't have to survive.
(10:10) And I judge her, you know, I go, "Look at you. What are you doing with your life? Like, why aren't you surviving? >> [laughter] >> Like, climb the mountain and survive in the cold." And she's like, "I'm good, you know, I'm American." And I'm like, "How are you okay in America? Like, are you okay?" I'm constantly checking in with her.
(10:27) So, when we do our own work and ask ourselves, we don't ask if we're projecting, we ask ourselves, "How am I projecting? How is this about me?" I don't say, "Is this about me?" I go, "How is this about me?" Now, you're going deeper, and you're willing to completely, unequivocally, fully own that you're probably projecting. >> Yeah, yeah.
(10:48) And any [clears throat] trigger is a great indicator that there's a mirror, and what am I What is this about saying about me? >> Right. And even if you go, "But I don't like my kid saying to eff off." I'm allowed to not like it. And that's why I yelled at my kid, or that's why I slapped my kid. I go, "Even then, even if it's legit, legit, every parent would say they hate this.
(11:09) " >> Yeah. >> "Even then, how you reacted is you." >> That's right. >> Right? And you could take the same action, but from a totally different energy. >> place. >> Yeah. >> You can still not like it. >> And still set a boundary. >> set a boundary, but you don't The way you did it was you. >> right. >> The way you freaking screamed like a flamboyant lunatic was all you.
(11:27) And they're like, "No, it How can you say that? Everybody would do that." I go, "Everybody may do it, but there and there definitely five people who would do it differently. So, the fact that five can do it differently makes it not standardized. Yeah. And you have to own that, right? And and women will come to me and go, but he he was such an That's why I did that da da da da da.
(11:49) And I go, he was an and still you have to own that you uniquely reacted like that. >> Yeah. And I'm also thinking of parents that are listening right now that are having a lot of guilt. Maybe they have this story of perfectionism that they need to be perfect all the time and they shouldn't be triggered. Just can you speak to that as we context? >> every I don't think I've not gotten triggered like at a zero for more than 24 hours.
(12:14) Like my zero trigger may last when I'm out of the country, I don't see my daughter, I'm in a really good mood, everything worked in my favor, [clears throat] the stock market was up, I lost some weight, then I could be like a zero trigger. Otherwise, I'm constantly getting triggered. It's just maybe a one instead of a hundred.
(12:29) So, it's okay to get to to know that it's okay to get triggered. And the younger the kids, the more the trigger. >> Mhm. >> Because you can't walk away. You feel more responsible. You feel mortally like you're really raising a lunatic, right? You or a loser or a criminal. So, you're so worried, right? >> And when they're when the [clears throat] kids are younger, I mean, the the demands I remember when my kids were growing up when they could at least make breakfast for themselves, it was like, okay. Like after five.
(12:54) And I remember I used to be a couple's therapist and the divorce rate was so much higher before five years old. I'm like, just give them the tools to navigate this time. So, yes. >> Yes, because you're not spending time on your own. You're not spending time with your partner. Things take 10 times longer.
(13:09) Everything takes 10 times longer when your kid is young. So, think about the frustration and you have to pack the diapers and the medicine and the And then when they start becoming full human beings, it's such an amazing experience, isn't it? Like now you're getting your life back. So, I don't want parents to feel guilty.
(13:26) I don't want mothers to put that on themselves. Triggering is part of the parenting journey, which is why you try to do conscious parenting because then you begin to learn why you're getting triggered, and then voila, you have a whole new insight about yourself, and now you've been given a beautiful gift to look at yourself.
(13:43) >> Yeah. And and I know people can hear this intellectually, and you talk about not just knowing it, but actually healing your way to conscious parenting. >> to know conscious parenting. You can't read conscious parenting. You can't love conscious parenting. You have to be conscious parent.
(13:59) You have to do it day by day, and it's so incredibly difficult because the work never ends. >> Yeah. >> It's never ending. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, and and if I'm not yelling or getting triggered by my kid, then I'm getting, you know, yelling and getting triggered by my colleague or my partner. It's it's a constant whirlwind, and the job is not not to get triggered.
(14:18) The job is to become better and faster at recognizing the trigger and getting out of the trigger. >> And I think if parents really understood that if they use whatever the triggers that's help coming up right now to resolve it, to be with it, it doesn't come up so or at least it's not a 10 out of 10. >> a 10 out of 10. It's like a 7 out of 10.
(14:33) Yeah, it's lighter >> than it was. >> Instead of 15 minutes, now it's lasting 5 minutes. Now you're quicker to repair. You know, you didn't say 10 curse words, you only said one. But you have to start somewhere. >> Totally. >> And it's okay to f it up. There's not I've never met one parent who hasn't messed it up like big time.
(14:51) Like said the worst thing to their kid. >> Yeah. >> I know I there are lots of >> moms, friends that I'm hearing in my head that are like I really messed up, and it's like no, everybody messes up at some point. >> Yeah. >> And there's resilience in that, and we can repair, and that's part of it. Have you ever felt like there's something more you're meant to do? Like you've outgrown the life that you're living, [music] but you don't know what comes next? Maybe you've checked all the boxes, and still something inside whispers, this isn't it. What if that
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(16:27) I'd love to hear cuz I know you developed a three-step framework to support parents in doing the work. I think it's called the parenting map. >> Yes. >> Talk to us about what this is. >> So, the first step is to recognize your conditioning. So, I teach parents to write down in every column your conditioning around money, happiness, success, beauty, marriage, love, sexuality, uh career, parenthood, every how to be a good mother.
(16:53) Write down all your belief systems because the first step is to become aware that you are conditioned. Like everything coming out of your mouth is recycled. Everything coming out of your mouth is rinse repeat till you evolve. >> I'm sure a lot of parents are like, I sound like my dad or I sound like my mom. And And we do. We parent that way.
(17:11) >> natural. >> Yeah. >> So, become aware. And to do that, you have to do some work. And you can read in my book The Parenting Map, and then the second step is to go deeper and to answer that question, you know, why is my ego showing up right now? And the ego is the part of us that protects us. So, why did I yell at my kid? That's the ego. The ego is a yeller.
(17:33) Now we're going deeper. I yelled because in that moment I felt like a failure. In that moment I felt like she was making fun of me. She was exploiting me. Oh, really? Like, what is your inner child saying? And then the third part is what do I do differently with my kid? So, there's three layers to every deconstruction and becoming a conscious parent.
(17:54) So, one is like, what is culture telling me? So, if my kid comes home with a C grade, the first part is, "Oh, oh my goodness, culture's told me a C grade is bad. I'm really panicking. I'm not a I'm not a good parent. My kid is not a good kid. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad." So, that's culture.
(18:11) So, now you're starting to step back and go, "Okay, culture tells me it's bad, but is it bad?" >> And that it's a reflection of you as the parent. >> me as a parent, so you're beginning to deconstruct. Then you're coming deeper. You know, say you yelled at your kid because they got a C grade. Now you're going even deeper.
(18:27) Okay, what part of my psyche feels really bad right now? Oh, I remember when I was 7 years old and I got a C grade, my mother yelled at me. Now you're getting memories. Now you're remembering the story you've created around that C grade. And you're going deeper. And this It could be becoming a doctor.
(18:43) It could be your kid has put on 10 lb. Your kid has acne. Your kid didn't get called to the junior prom. Anything. >> Mhm. >> Right? Why are you reacting? [laughter] Right? What's going on inside you? >> Yeah. >> And now you're tracing it back to some memories. You're beginning to understand, "Holy this is about me. I'm getting activated.
(19:02) " And then now you have to go, "Okay, if I didn't have that activation, if I didn't care about the C grade, how would I be? Who would I be if I was a mom who didn't care about grades? Oh, I'd love my kid. I'd be happy right now. We'd be having a great time. But instead I just shame them. I send them to the basement.
(19:17) I lock them up. I took away their iPad. I told them they can't go to the birthday party. Oh my goodness. So who can I be without my attachment to a grade? Oh my goodness, I'd be a Zen parent. I have parents telling me, "What if I didn't care about that? Then I'd be an amazing woman. My daughter would love me being with me.
(19:34) " Okay, so why don't you try being that? >> And using whatever age stage that their trigger is that your kids are to do our own healing work. >> Absolutely. >> Then it's like more digestible. I always loved that because then it wasn't I feel like I need to do a lot of work. I I mean my situation was that I got three kids at three and under overnight.
(19:50) So I didn't have a lot of preparation as a stepmom. But you know, I I do like chunking it over time to be like, "Okay, when my daughter was going through middle school and being bullied, it was bringing up my middle school bullying." Actually, in the way that she confronted the bullies and then it stopped overnight.
(20:07) I wished I had had that courage and I told her that and I was really inspired by her. But it also helped me heal a part of myself. >> Yes. >> And so yes, I can use my daughter at or my son or whatever age stage that they're at to help me heal that part of me directly, but I can also learn the courage that they had that I didn't. >> If you're willing to lean in and look at them as a teacher, right? That's what you were doing.
(20:30) You were not threatened by her different way. You weren't competing with her. You weren't challenged by that. It was a welcoming thing for you. And that's what our children can teach us if we lean into that. But many are so afraid to believe their children, to trust their children, to pass the baton, especially fathers and sons. I see that so much.
(20:50) Like the father doesn't want to trust the son with the with the wheel of the car and give that power and say, "Son, I'm going to follow you. I believe in you. You're my teacher now." Oh my goodness, most men can't do that. >> Why do you think that is? >> Well, they compete. >> Ah, I see. >> They're they're not ready to step off the throne yet.
(21:07) And many women compete. >> I wonder >> if Do you see more women compete with the same sex >> Yes, cuz it's typically with the same sex. >> And there's more projection work that can happen. >> because you identify, right? So then it's very hard to release respo- you know, my daughter will tell me, I'm being honest, she'll be like, "Why do you take all my feedback as criticism?" And I'm like, "It sounds like criticism to me, so that's why I take it like that.
(21:30) " She's like, "How about I'm not meaning it like that, and I'm meaning it as helpful feedback?" Okay, so guess what? That would mean I need to flip the script to she's not being mean, she's not a disrespectful child to she's a helpful adult. >> See, the opposite. >> I'm not willing to give her that that grace. >> Ah. >> That she's actually a good friend trying to tell me my hair looks awful right now or my outfit doesn't look good.
(21:53) >> Yeah. >> But I was not giving her the grace of like, "Wow, she has a contribution, she has something to say." I'd rather think, "Oh, what a disrespectful child." Because then that allows me to stay separate from her and correct her. >> Uh-huh. >> she told me that, I did inner work. >> Good for you. >> I was like, "Why am I doing this? What if she was a healthy, happy, contributing gorgeous human being giving me feedback?" Oh, then I would not get to look at her as a child.
(22:21) >> Mhm. Yeah, there's like a subtle sense of power and control that we still hold on to. >> Right, in a weird way we'd rather see our children as children to maintain control. >> Mhm. >> So even in our codependency, so for example, I have many adult children who will tell me, "Oh, my mother went to the chemist for me or my mother went to pick up my medi- medication or my mother filled my gas, my mother called the car company for me, my mother rented a car.
(22:45) " And I always will ask those children, "Why is your mother doing this?" And she's like, "Oh, she always does this." Now see, it sounds really like a helpful mother. >> Mhm. >> But it's not. It's actually a codependent mother who's enmeshed, who's crippling her daughter. And so then I'll tell the daughter, "You know, I think you really need to do that yourself.
(23:02) " And she's like, well, I could do it, but I like my mother doing it, right? But there's a unhealthy codependency being nurtured without any of them knowing about it, you know? >> And then it only shows up later in life. It gets more obvious when that dynamic splits. >> Well, it it may show up later where the where the daughter now is unable to do the work, or it may show up that the mother is burnt out.
(23:23) And the mother's not one She's wondering, why am I burnt out? Well, because you're doing all these extra things that you shouldn't be doing. >> And it seems like that. >> And it seems like love and care, and the other day a daughter came to me and she was upset because the her mother was not being a good grandmother. Now, let look at grandmotherhood.
(23:40) That's an institution. >> Uh-huh. >> That's a conditioning. Because what a good grandmother supposed to do? >> Yeah. >> You know, your kids are going to have a huge expectation about you being a grandmother. >> Uh-huh. >> So, I I always tell my daughter, listen, grandmother is optional. I don't I didn't sign up to be a grandmother, okay? But but mothers think that their mothers should be grandmothers.
(24:00) >> Yeah. >> Who said we need to be grandmothers? >> unspoken expectations around that. >> an institution. >> Yes. >> And then there's guilt. >> Yeah. >> But I didn't sign up to be a grandmother. >> Yeah. >> I don't want to be a grandmother. >> [laughter] >> I love that. >> But then I'm going to be looked at I'm just saying in general.
(24:14) So, when this daughter's complaining that, oh, my mother doesn't come over. My I Did you ask her permission? Did you ask her to be a grandmother? And she's like, no, she's just supposed to want it. How is that our right to expect our parents to be grandparents >> Yeah. >> in the traditional way, >> There's so many ways that we do that in life in general.
(24:34) Somebody's our boyfriends or partner. Now I have all these unspoken expectations that I place on them. >> now you have to only look at me if you're my husband. You only are supposed to desire me. I mean, it comes with like this subscript agenda, like the surgeon's warning on a on a cigarette pack, like it's very faint, but it's it could kill you.
(24:51) >> See what's in there. >> It'll kill you. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> And I know this year you wrote two books, one about raising daughters, one about raising sons. Before we dive into the differences, could you talk to us about just what are some of the general differences with raising sons and daughters? >> There's so many differences and most parents, you're parent of girls and boys, so you know. They're so different.
(25:11) They're different animals, different creatures, different monsters. You have to treat them so differently. And I think that we sometimes in our desire to be progressive and inclusive, which is so important, so important, but we cannot also flatten the curve. It's okay to talk about differences and honor how bloody different we are.
(25:32) So, the main differences are, I think, that boys have testosterone and dopamine. >> Mhm. >> That makes all the difference. And girls have estrogen and oxytocin. They both have the others' hormones, but the other one has it disproportionately more. >> [snorts] >> So, men will tell me, "Go take some testosterone." Like, please.
(25:51) >> I did one time. >> I did. I have so much compassion for teenage boys. >> Yes. What happened to you? >> I broke out with so many pimples and I was so turned on and aggressive. >> [laughter] >> You wanted to have sex with everyone. >> with everything. >> had no patience. >> Yes. >> You were irritable.
(26:06) You wanted to punch a wall. >> I was like, "I got to get off of this." >> Yes. Yes. I have many women in post menopause telling me that they took a little bit of testosterone and they're like, "Oh my god, I want to have sex with everyone." >> [laughter] >> Right? And they had And men say this to me, "Can you please don't lecture me? Just take some testosterone.
(26:21) " >> Yeah. No, it's fair. >> Like, you'll you'll zip it. You'll never ever complain about men's horniness >> [laughter] >> or men's aggression again. So, testosterone is a defining element. We have testosterone, but just not as much. They have 15 to 50 times more. >> Wow. >> So, if we understand that, we can understand that boys need to be treated differently.
(26:42) Boys are extremely physical. They feel as much, but through their body. So, don't ask them to use their words and sit in circle time and, you know, and and process. Testosterone is the >> of novelty and pursuit and competition and competence and achievement and risk-taking and exploration. So, don't tell them to go brush their teeth.
(27:03) >> Mhm. >> Make them find the toothpaste. >> Mhm. >> Make them look for it in the yard and dig and scavenge and hunt and >> They would love to do that. >> forage. >> Yeah. >> That's in their wiring. >> Yeah. >> And for girls, make sure you understand that they are feeling a tremendous amount of pressure to perform and to get validation because girls are relationally sensitive.
(27:25) Girls figure out who they are through their bonds. So, when she's crying because her friend didn't text her back within 7 minutes, don't call her dramatic. And when she's overanalyzing every text and counting the exclamation marks and talking about why they use this emoji and not that emoji and this matters to her because her estrogen and oxytocin is making her extremely sensitive to nuance.
(27:51) And the boy is like, "Oh, I don't even know what you're talking about, right?" So, they are different creatures. They they need different parenting and the algorithm is treating them, maneuvering them, manipulating them in very different ways. And the faster we can pay attention to that and understand the red flags, the faster we can help them in real time.
(28:12) >> Beautiful. Yeah, and I think it's such important work that you're doing, so thank you. And I want to talk about girls first and some of the problems that they face and then we'll switch over to sons, I guess, or daughters. So, if a a parent is noticing that their child, their daughter, is feeling less confident >> Yes.
(28:28) >> and less herself, what would be the first step to support her? >> The first thing you you tell her is it's okay. And you don't tell her, "Well, you're so beautiful. You're so smart. Why aren't you more confident?" Because understand that when a child feels anything, it's because they're talking about their internal world.
(28:52) It doesn't matter how many cars they have in the driveway, how beautiful they are, if they just won the pageant or the spelling bee. So, don't even bother trying to assure them that their reality is not what they think it is. Every human being wants to be validated and then normalized and empathized with. I call it vent, V E N T, validate, empathize, normalize and then talk about transformation.
(29:16) >> Yeah. >> So, if she's not feeling confident, put your hands up and go, I get you. Something's going on. I want to help you. Get in the ditch, under the blankets, don't leave. >> Mhm. >> Show her that you understand her by validating her. The greatest confidence you can give her in that moment is, I believe you. I see you. I hear you.
(29:35) I I want to be here for you. You're so important. I'm going to stop everything and just listen to you. Now, that's going to build confidence because I'm so important. My mother wants to listen to me. >> And I'm accepted in my full human experience. >> as who I am. The other day, a client said to me, you know, >> [snorts] >> uh I just ruminate and overanalyze everything.
(29:55) >> Mhm. >> And so, I said to her, okay, so do I. So, it's okay. Let's live and manage what we have versus trying to not be who we are. You're an overthinker, you're ruminator, you're an overanalyzer. I got you. >> Mhm. >> you. And she was like, that's it? I just need to accept myself? I said, well, then you can change.
(30:15) But first, we have to accept. change from self-loathing. Yeah. We have to change from self-acceptance. First is acceptance. >> Mhm. >> Accept the pimples, accept the cellulite, then you can go do something about it. But we cannot be hating our bodies and then loving them when it's changed >> Yeah. >> to what we Because then we're waiting for the next downfall.
(30:36) The next thing is coming that we need to change, the nose or the earlobe or the double chin. I mean, there's always something to tweak. >> Yeah. >> So, we first have to accept the as is and then we can move into constructive change. >> Yeah, I am 100% in alignment with that. And I know you've said one of the most damaging things we can say to our girls is to be nice.
(30:54) >> Yeah. >> And often times like that has taken their voice and you've shared that online and I've been so grateful that you've done that cuz then they're I think I heard you say that then they'll conform and those are usually the girls that grow up to be women who are manipulated >> easily. >> Yeah, but the con of that, the shadow of that is you'll have a girl who may go too far in being too rude, right? Or disrespectful.
(31:20) She'll be like, I don't care. And I don't care, right? Because you taught her not to care. Yeah. So you taught her not to care about what people think including your opinion. So then she's like, Mom, I don't care. >> Yeah, yeah. >> And then then it's going to poke you. So you have to understand to raise an empowered girl to raise a girl who knows herself and can listen to her inner voice, she's going to not be caring about your voice.
(31:43) >> Uh-huh. >> And and you're both going to have to stand sovereign in your queendom and not compete. You can't compete. >> That's beautiful. >> Because if you're really holding it like, oh this is for my empowerment and to to be an example for my daughter that she can feel her own royalty, the regalness of her being.
(32:01) >> Yes. And it works both ways. So if she then tells you, how come you don't want to be like me or think like me or Mom, you should do this, then you get to say, I don't need to feel like you. I don't need to think like you. But you begin to sow the seeds early at two, three, and four.
(32:20) And then it becomes the oak tree way later where she can be okay with you not being like her and you can be okay with her not being like you. And it's called differentiation. It's so important. You know, we have to differentiate. That's the whole point of parenthood is to go from enmeshment, which is the symbiosis of the early years and deep attachment and connection, to then cutting the cord, cutting the cord, cutting the cord, cutting the cord.
(32:46) The other day my daughter, who's 23, who's who's quite I would say connected and sometimes enmeshed, said to me, "And Mom, you're going on this tour and I won't see you for 2 months." Right? And I said, "I know. I know that's hard. And it you know, who cares? Like so what? Like now you're 23, you got to learn >> Mhm. Mhm. >> that we got to cut the cord, right? So developmentally appropriately, we need to do both the connection and the cutting the cord.
(33:14) But many parents don't cut the cord and they stay enmeshed and they allow their children to stay enmeshed. >> And then the kids don't find their power. >> because the kid won't the kid may not differentiate if it's so comfortable and lovely, right? Why should they unenmesh from you? >> I mean, I remember my mom telling me to order the pizza on the phone and I was so scared.
(33:31) But she's like, "You're ready." You know, >> You have to cut the cord. You have incrementally and in alignment with who it is they are, >> [clears throat] >> but sometimes you got to be a little bit more boundary than even they are ready for. You know, especially after 18, 19, 20. My daughter's 23. Yeah, she wants to crawl back into the womb and I have to keep keep letting her know it's not it's not her womb anymore.
(33:54) There's a time and place and it's okay to create those boundaries with our children. >> And I know you talk about girls will, you know, because we're relational, we'll go into a room and just kind of try to find our way and conform. Can you talk to us about if if a parent is seeing that their daughter is starting to create people-pleasing patterns, what's something that they can do? >> Well, you teach her that she doesn't need to please you.
(34:16) Uh keep checking in with her, is this what you want or what do you think I want? >> I want to pause. You teach her to not please you, which I can hear some parents like, "Wait, what?" And if you see that there's a deeper gift and that this is ultimately for you and your child, >> Yes. Then of course you're going to.
(34:32) >> Yes, yes. It strokes your ego when your child pleases you. Conforms. >> When they conform. When they go, "Me, too." Right? Anything you say, "I want sushi." "Me, too." You right, they offer you no resistance. Who likes resistance? Nobody. Right? That's why resistance training, strength training is so difficult because it it takes effort.
(34:53) But, it's in the resistance training that your body goes goes stronger, correct? >> That's right. >> So, therefore, we have to teach our daughters to resist us. >> Mhm. >> So, if you find them too much being the yes girl, and it's your your all just coasting, and you tell your therapist, "Oh, we never argue." That's a problem.
(35:10) >> Mhm. >> Your kids should be pushing back. Your kids should be arguing. Your should have conflict. >> tighter you hold them, the more often times they will push back. >> Right. Eventually, they will. So, they will push back because you're too tight and too controlling, but they'll also not push back because you're too tight and too controlling.
(35:27) >> Right? They'll become very compliant. >> Yeah. And in some ways, you want to celebrate the push back within like a respectful way to support their autonomy. >> Correct. So, you don't want the push back to be an explosion. Yeah. You want the push back to be daily >> Healthy. >> daily irritations.
(35:41) You should be irritating each other every day, a little bit. Like a little bit of the pressure being released from the pressure cooker. You know, y'all should be grumbling about each other every day a little bit. >> Yeah. >> Every day, you should have a little bit of a irritation. Yeah. That that shows healthy rubbing against each other.
(35:58) >> that parents are hearing this because I remember when I heard Dan Siegel say that when children were having tantrums, that meant their brain was developing. And when I heard that, when my kids were young, I was like, "Oh, their brains are developing." >> Yeah. >> So, as you're saying like these irritations, it gets to be celebrated.
(36:12) Like strengthening. >> We're practicing resistance training. We're practicing a little bit more. Add a little bit more weight. Add a little bit Oh, wow, we didn't fall apart. Right? And I'm always telling my daughter, and I tell other parents, "Tell your kid, 'Look, and we're still here. >> Yeah. >> I'm not going >> Yeah.
(36:28) >> Look, we can argue, we can fight. Don't be afraid of arguing and conflict. It's healthy individuation in practice. >> That's beautiful. Yeah. Okay, so talk to us about our sons because oftentimes they're getting contradictory messages. Like, be strong but not vulnerable. >> Yeah. >> Be strong but not domineering.
(36:46) Like, what should what what does that do to our boys and what should we do instead? >> Yes, we're teaching them to be this caricature of grotesque exaggerated masculinity and then we're teaching them, okay, but don't be an >> Yeah. >> Right? He's like they're like, I don't know how to not be an if I'm going to be like that.
(37:02) >> Yeah. >> Or we teach them to be vulnerable and empathetic and kind and gentle and use your words but don't be a wimp, right? Don't don't be weak and don't be like a girl. >> Yeah. >> Right? So, what are we doing? We're confusing the heck out of them and I think after the Me Too movement, we've terrified these men now.
(37:18) And then we're like, why aren't you initiating? Why aren't you being, you know, chivalrous? Why aren't you asking me out? Well, guess what? >> I'm >> They're scared to ask you out because if they ask you out and you're they're the wrong guy and they're not George Clooney, you'll go and report them. Right? So, now men are terrified of women.
(37:36) So, that's why they love just being in their basement, playing video games and watching porn. >> Yeah. >> Right? That is so lovely. Why should I ever leave this cave? And then give me my AI girlfriend and give me the robot. I'm never leaving here. >> Yeah, crazy. >> I I don't need to deal with real women who confuse the heck out of me. >> [laughter] >> And there's not a lot of great examples in the public eye, I would say, of like really healthy men.
(38:01) I mean, I know there are some but like I think we need more. >> Yeah, where are they? >> Yeah, I need yeah, more examples of that. >> But I wrote this book Raising Conscious Sons because I was scared that I wasn't finding beautiful models out there and I was so angry with adult men and I'm like, okay, where does it start? It starts in the house.
(38:18) How can I empower parents to raise their boys with a conscious masculinity that no one talks about so that when they grow up they will take care of my daughter, right? And the women in my life. So, if you love women and children and daughters, you need to be raising your sons differently. And all mothers of sons, get my book Raising Conscious Sons.
(38:35) And if you don't have a son, buy it for someone who has a son. Because I promise you, parents don't have a blueprint, and I've given you one. >> What would you I'm just curious, what would you say is healthy masculinity? >> Healthy masculinity is not putting a label, a box on your son. Just like it is for girls, right? What is healthy femininity? Don't tell me who I should be.
(38:55) Don't tell me what I should wear, right? Allow them to develop into their body and their essence and their soul as they are. They will be on their own a healthy masculinity. It's when we put a label on it, like don't cry or cry or, you know, earn a lot of money or have big muscles or have a square jaw or be an alpha male.
(39:17) Those boxes limit and poison and distort masculinity. >> Yeah, beautifully said. I know you've talked about sons who sometimes stop talking to their parents, and they go a bit more quiet. >> Yeah, that's normal. >> Yeah, can you share like what what's happening to give some guidance? >> Well, two things may be happening. One, their natural brain development is less formed than the girls in terms of their verbal areas.
(39:40) Their left and right brain hemispheres do not connect fast as fast as girls as strongly as girls. So, they're more fragile, boys. So, they don't talk about their feelings because their left and right don't connect as quickly as girls. That's why girls can quickly talk about their feelings. We're so good at it. Because our interconnections in the in the hemispheres is much more robust, much stronger.
(40:01) >> I didn't realize that. >> Yes. So, their brain is not developing in a way that allows them to talk about it. Number two, when they do cry and talk about their feelings, they're getting the subtle conditioned messaging that they're like a girl and don't be like a wild So, do if you you know, damned if you do, damned you don't.
(40:18) Um so what I want to tell parents is that boys are feeling deeply. They're just showing you how they feel. >> Mhm. >> They are a bottom-up processor, not top-down like girls. So don't ask them to use their words. Allow them to move. Allow them to express. Yes, give them a corner where they can throw the pillow and hit the wall and throw a dart um because they have all this energy that wants to come out.
(40:48) And the other thing that we need to remember with boys is that their feelings are mostly around purpose. So if they feel lack of purpose, they're going to have bad feelings. Girls have bad feelings because they're not in relationship. Girls typically want to be in relationship. >> Mhm. >> They thrive in relationship and they drown in relationship.
(41:09) >> Yeah. >> Boys will drown if they don't have purpose or contribution or service. So that anger is a sign I don't have purpose. Give a boy purpose. Make him feel useful, right? We women know men want to feel useful. Like they want to they want to pick your suitcases. They want to you know fix the light bulb.
(41:27) Even though you can get the light bulb fixed yourself or give it to your man. Let him feel good, okay? >> So boys because of their testosterone are purpose-driven. They want to feel competent. So I remind mothers that you know let your boy pick up your plastic bags from the grocery store. Let him do something to feel like he his value is missed when it's not there.
(41:52) That boy will not squander himself. But the boys who are hiding in basements, you know, addicted to video games, those are boys who have lost purpose. >> Mhm. I'm also it's like a reframe on chivalry as well. >> Yeah. >> Like giving them purpose and something to do to feel valuable or >> of you, to feel like [clears throat] they're providing, they're protecting.
(42:08) I know these sound like stereotypical things, but there's a reason that they have sustained themselves. It's because men are evolutionarily wired to protect and provide. I mean, because they were bigger and faster. That's all. Not because they're better. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we all have different roles. >> Yeah.
(42:24) >> In closing, just if if there's anything that we haven't spoken about that you feel like it would be really valuable for people to hear. >> I want parents to realize that they are empowered to have a great impact on their children. And I think parents are feeling helpless and hopeless, and they've given up their power to the algorithm or to the external world, and I want parents to get their power back, which is why I've written these books.
(42:50) Your children need you. They want you. You're the main person in their life. You need to be there even though they're deep in their video games or they're deep with their friends. Don't lose your influence, and these books are going to empower you to take your influence back. >> That's really beautiful, and I I think it's so important that you and I both know as therapists that childhood is the foundation for our lives.
(43:13) And so, the more we can work on ourselves as parents and also raise more conscious children. Like that is what changes the world. >> I agree. I always say the evolution of the planet depends on the consciousness of the parent. >> I agree. Yeah, and it's really sacred work. Thank you for what you do. >> is. Thank you. >> And I know my audience is going to want to stay connected.
(43:32) Talk to us about what you're up to. >> Yeah, well, I have a beautiful community called the conscious circle that they can join, and these two books, Raising Conscious Daughters and Raising Conscious Sons. If you go to my website, drshefali.com, and order them there, you get all these bonuses. So, might as well do it there. >> Yeah, beautiful.
(43:49) We'll put all the links here below in the show notes. >> Thank you so much. And I have a podcast myself called Parenting and You, where I do real-life coaching to parents who are getting triggered. >> Bless. Okay, great. We'll put all the links below. Thank you for being here. Thank you for what you do. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the [music] world starting with yourself.
(44:09) It truly does make a difference. And if this podcast has supported you, one of the most impactful ways to help us reach more people is to simply press the follow [music] button. It really does help us grow and we are so grateful. I just want to say thank you [music] for being a living example of what it means to walk through the world with an open heart and mind.
Author Name:Alyssa Nobriga MA
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Youtube Video URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RdHw-YrNIg
Title: How To Raise Mentally Resilient Children (According To Science) | Dr. Shefali
Author Name: Alyssa Nobriga MA
Description: If you're ready to transform your life + business 👉 Apply to the Institute for Coaching Mastery here:
https://www.alyssanobriga.com/apply
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Have you ever wondered why your child suddenly stops talking to you, or why the smallest thing sets off a meltdown you didn't see coming?
In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Shefali, the clinical psychologist and bestselling author who helped bring conscious parenting into the mainstream. She's spent decades showing parents that how we react to our kids often says more about us than it does about them.
We get into why so many kids today struggle to sit with discomfort, a simple question that can stop a trigger before it turns into a blowup, and why boys and girls need to be parented in very different ways. Dr. Shefali also shares her framework for spotting old conditioning before it repeats itself with the next generation.
If you've ever felt like you're doing everything right and still losing your patience, this one will meet you right where you are. Tune in for a conversation that might change how you see your child, and yourself.
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Episode Timestamps:
00:00 – Intro: traps parents fall into with conscious parenting
01:24 – Raising resilient kids in a world of overindulgence
05:39 – What conscious parenting really means
07:44 – Using your child as a mirror for your own growth
09:09 – "The child is not the project; the parent is" understanding projection
12:37 – It's okay to get triggered normalizing the parenting journey
17:14 – The three-step Parenting Map framework
21:00 – Letting your kids be your teachers
23:14 – Codependency disguised as helpful parenting
25:36 – Core differences between raising sons and daughters
29:03 – Supporting daughters who feel less confident
31:32 – Why telling girls to "be nice" silences their voice
34:44 – Helping daughters break people-pleasing patterns
37:22 – The contradictory messages we send our sons
40:01 – Why sons go quiet, and what healthy masculinity looks like
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Guest Bio
Dr. Shefali received her doctorate in clinical psychology from Columbia University. Specializing in the integration of Western psychology and Eastern philosophy, she brings together the best of both worlds for her clients. She is an expert in family dynamics and personal development, teaching courses around the globe. She has written four books, three of which are New York Times best-sellers, including her two landmark books The Conscious Parent and The Awakened Family.
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Guest Links
Website: https://www.drshefali.com/
Facebook: / doctorshefali
Instagram: / doctorshefali
TikTok: / doctorshefali
YouTube: / drshefali
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Website: https://www.alyssanobriga.com/
Instagram: / alyssanobriga
TikTok: / alyssanobriga
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6b5s2xb...
Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
If you're ready to transform your life + business 👉 Apply to the Institute for Coaching Mastery here: https://www.alyssanobriga.com/apply
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Alyssa Nobriga International, LLC - Disclaimer
This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or any other qualified professional. We shall in no event be held liable to any party for any reason arising directly or indirectly for the use or interpretation of the information presented in this video. Copyright 2023, Alyssa Nobriga International, LLC - All rights reserved.
Transcript:
(00:00) What are some of the things that parents fall into as traps when they're trying to be more conscious in their parenting? >> Conscious parenting is not just about healing trauma. It's not just about being a gentle parent. It's about how am I understanding and attuning to what my child needs from me in this moment.
(00:16) Before you even react to your tantruming toddler, before you even yell at your obnoxious teenager, you have to go, "Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. What's coming up for me right now?" >> I know you say that the child is not the project that the parent is. Can you help parents understand [music] how doing their own work will support them in not projecting onto their kids? >> Oh my goodness.
(00:37) So, we have to first accept that >> So happy that you're here. >> goodness. Thank you for having me. >> I wanted to start off by asking you because I know you talk about that we're raising fragile children because they're no longer having the capacity to be resilient. We've removed those things. How do we support our kids in being healthier and having more healthy friction so they can grow that resilience? >> It's so hard today because the world has changed so fast and now we have so many indulgences.
(01:06) We don't have to think about directions anymore. Everything is handed to us. We don't have to wait for food anymore. Everything is by a click of the button. Everything is at the palm of our hand. And so these conveniences are wonderful on the one hand, but what they do create in in us and our children is an incapacity to struggle.
(01:28) >> Mhm. >> We've now lost the muscle to struggle. And struggle will come in life. You can try to pad life as much as you want. There will be natural disasters. There will be life disasters. There will be death. There will be illness. There will be delays. There will be mistakes because we're still human.
(01:50) So, when we overindulge and overbuffer our systems while [snorts] we allow for ease and comfort, too much of that then creates actually an atrophy of the muscle of resilience, grit, empowerment, courage. And I see that with our young generations, they cannot even wait if their Uber Eats order has pickle and I they said no to the pickle.
(02:18) >> Mhm. [laughter] >> I mean, come on. The other day my daughter ordered something from a CVS and I kind of lost it. I was like, you ordered from a CVS? >> [laughter] >> Like [gasps] she's like, yeah. >> Yeah. >> And poor thing didn't understand. Well, I order from everywhere else. I'm ordering from every restaurant.
(02:36) I'm ordering Why shouldn't I order from CVS an ointment? >> Uh-huh. >> I was like, you didn't drive there? You didn't First of all, you're driving our new car. You couldn't even drive your new car there? >> [laughter] >> I would be I'd have to walk. I'd have to wait. I'd have to ask my mom. I'd have to get bus money.
(02:52) >> That's what >> Even your new car, you couldn't drive? >> Yeah. >> I couldn't believe it. And she was looking at me like I was an alien. I was looking at her like she was [laughter] an alien. And I wanted to blame her and scream at her and say, "This is why our generation says you're entitled.
(03:06) " But I knew that we had created this. Like I've given her this idea or our generations have given them the idea that everything's on a fingertip. >> Yeah. And it's funny how we may look at how we were raised and compare it to them. And then what I'm hearing you say is like, and how am I participating in that? >> Yes. >> And what I love what you're sharing is the why.
(03:26) So that the struggle actually supports them in creating their resiliency, their their ability to cope with the natural challenges that will come up in life. >> Yes. And now because we've so created entitlement and indulgence and comfort and ease, now what do we do? Like there is no friction. Like so I could look at yesterday and think to myself, she had no friction all day.
(03:46) All day there was a car with gas. Her pets were taken care of. There was no, you know, torrential downpour of rain. There was There was a beau- It was a beautiful day. So, what do we do, right? When we lived in uh hunter-gatherer tribes, as we were wired to live evolutionarily, we had friction every day.
(04:07) Right? There were no mattresses, there was no food stocked in the fridge, there were no cans, there was no anything. So, now we've gone the other extreme where we've over-infused our children's lives with every possible comfort and our own. >> Mhm. >> So, now you have to think to yourself, "Okay, how do I create friction? How do I introduce friction?" Well, you have to now think about it.
(04:28) >> Yeah. >> You know, maybe you give them a budget. Maybe you tell them that they have to learn to wait for things now. If even though you could afford it and you could give it, and sure you could go to McDonald's, but now you wait for 10 days because because we just have to learn how to wait now. >> Yeah. >> Because there is no waiting.
(04:46) We've taken away delayed gratification. We've taken away thinking for ourselves. And now we have to reintroduce analog back into their life. >> And talk to me about conscious parenting. What are some of the things that parents fall into as traps when they're trying to be more conscious in their parenting? >> So, conscious parenting, just for people to know, when I started talking about this 16, 17 years ago when your when your daughter was a baby.
(05:11) Back then, no one was talking about, you know, looking within them- You remember, yeah? And it was considered revolutionary, right? I remember Oprah taking me on her show and saying, "This is revolutionary!" >> [laughter] >> And now it's become such a wonderfully commonplace thing, right? Such a good thing. But, uh conscious parenting in a nutshell is for the parent to really examine their own conditioning, their own belief systems, and how they are maneuvering, manipulating, exploiting their children to fulfill their own ego.
(05:41) Okay? So, it's a lot of inner work you have to do as a parent. So, now in terms of the traps is many times parents will think that oh, because I've healed my trauma or because I'm being so gentle, the trap is that they think they're being conscious, right? Consciousness is not just about healing trauma and conscious parenting is not just about being a gentle parent.
(06:02) It's it's way more than that. It's about how am I understanding and attuning to what my child needs from me in this moment. This child may need a boundary. This child may need a hug. That child may need me to leave them alone. How do I know what each child needs? That is conscious parenting. Is attuning to their development and seeing what skills does this child need for me right now? And yesterday I was really tough with them and I was like, "That's not okay and you have to pay me back and I need a boundary around that." But today
(06:38) I'm seeing that they need empathy and they need validation and they need me to really listen. So it's a it's a day-by-day, moment-by-moment, highly attuned approach which takes space. You have to have the inner space to show up >> Yeah. >> and to be in beginner's mind and to come without your preconceptions.
(06:59) It takes a lot of high discipline from the parent. >> Kids are going to help you heal. I mean, I think I love the word attunement that you used because some parents aren't even attuned to their own needs, let alone what the child needs. >> Exactly. >> parenthood is a spiritual path, is a personal development path. >> that's what I teach.
(07:14) >> Yeah. >> That use this relationship as a mirror to look at your own unhealed self and ask yourself, "How is this moment showing me how I need to grow up?" >> Yeah. >> Right? Before you even react to your tantruming toddler, before you even yell at your obnoxious teenager, you have to go, "Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.
(07:35) What what's coming up for me right now? Because I need to look at this." And that question will save you from reacting and that question will take you deeper. >> Mhm. >> And let me tell you, every time I've not asked this question, I've blown it, I've ruined the moment, I've screwed it up. >> Yeah. >> But every time I've asked this question, everything I was so angry about, I was convinced it was the other person.
(08:01) Just by giving this pause and saying, >> [snorts] >> "Okay, this must be about me in some way, in some way. >> Yeah. >> Uh I've co-created it in some way. I've got to look at my co-creation and it takes a lot of valor and courage to do that." >> Yeah. And I think also even the ability to repair is teaching with the kids how to repair.
(08:21) So it's all it can all be used. >> Yes. >> I know you say that the child is not the project, that the parent is. And I love this. And I know in psychotherapy, when people would bring us their kids as the problem, we would really look at the parents. But can you help parents understand how doing their own work will support them in not projecting onto their kids? >> Oh my goodness.
(08:43) So we have to first accept that we are 99.9% projecting on everything. >> What's the 1% where we're not? >> I don't know. When we're sleeping. >> Right? [laughter] When we're like we're on like our stomach is hurting. >> It's something that is almost tragically unavoidable. >> Mhm. >> You and I projecting on each other right now.
(09:01) Whether we like each other, what kind of people we are, how much should I share? >> Yeah. >> But I'm always deciding, "Oh, she's trustworthy." I don't know that, right? I mean it works in our favor, but think about it, right? >> Yeah. >> Oh, I like the color of her eyes, so she reminds me of someone I know or the opposite, right? And we're constantly doing this.
(09:18) So imagine, if I'm doing it with you and I haven't met you before, how much more do we do it to a child that we believe is ours and came from us? We're like, "I know you." >> Mhm. >> So we won't even stop to to accept that it could all be a projection. Because we're like, "I know you. I've lived with you. You're your mom." So that's where it can get dangerous because we're we're stamping onto the other our reality, our experiences, our intellect, even our capacities.
(09:47) Right? I do this to my daughter in this very profound way. I came to America when I was 21 years old as an [snorts] immigrant. I didn't have family, I didn't have money, I didn't have connections. I was lonely, I was scared, and I was a survivor. And man, I projected onto her constantly because she's 23, and she's not a survivor because she has everything, right? She doesn't have to survive.
(10:10) And I judge her, you know, I go, "Look at you. What are you doing with your life? Like, why aren't you surviving? >> [laughter] >> Like, climb the mountain and survive in the cold." And she's like, "I'm good, you know, I'm American." And I'm like, "How are you okay in America? Like, are you okay?" I'm constantly checking in with her.
(10:27) So, when we do our own work and ask ourselves, we don't ask if we're projecting, we ask ourselves, "How am I projecting? How is this about me?" I don't say, "Is this about me?" I go, "How is this about me?" Now, you're going deeper, and you're willing to completely, unequivocally, fully own that you're probably projecting. >> Yeah, yeah.
(10:48) And any [clears throat] trigger is a great indicator that there's a mirror, and what am I What is this about saying about me? >> Right. And even if you go, "But I don't like my kid saying to eff off." I'm allowed to not like it. And that's why I yelled at my kid, or that's why I slapped my kid. I go, "Even then, even if it's legit, legit, every parent would say they hate this.
(11:09) " >> Yeah. >> "Even then, how you reacted is you." >> That's right. >> Right? And you could take the same action, but from a totally different energy. >> place. >> Yeah. >> You can still not like it. >> And still set a boundary. >> set a boundary, but you don't The way you did it was you. >> right. >> The way you freaking screamed like a flamboyant lunatic was all you.
(11:27) And they're like, "No, it How can you say that? Everybody would do that." I go, "Everybody may do it, but there and there definitely five people who would do it differently. So, the fact that five can do it differently makes it not standardized. Yeah. And you have to own that, right? And and women will come to me and go, but he he was such an That's why I did that da da da da da.
(11:49) And I go, he was an and still you have to own that you uniquely reacted like that. >> Yeah. And I'm also thinking of parents that are listening right now that are having a lot of guilt. Maybe they have this story of perfectionism that they need to be perfect all the time and they shouldn't be triggered. Just can you speak to that as we context? >> every I don't think I've not gotten triggered like at a zero for more than 24 hours.
(12:14) Like my zero trigger may last when I'm out of the country, I don't see my daughter, I'm in a really good mood, everything worked in my favor, [clears throat] the stock market was up, I lost some weight, then I could be like a zero trigger. Otherwise, I'm constantly getting triggered. It's just maybe a one instead of a hundred.
(12:29) So, it's okay to get to to know that it's okay to get triggered. And the younger the kids, the more the trigger. >> Mhm. >> Because you can't walk away. You feel more responsible. You feel mortally like you're really raising a lunatic, right? You or a loser or a criminal. So, you're so worried, right? >> And when they're when the [clears throat] kids are younger, I mean, the the demands I remember when my kids were growing up when they could at least make breakfast for themselves, it was like, okay. Like after five.
(12:54) And I remember I used to be a couple's therapist and the divorce rate was so much higher before five years old. I'm like, just give them the tools to navigate this time. So, yes. >> Yes, because you're not spending time on your own. You're not spending time with your partner. Things take 10 times longer.
(13:09) Everything takes 10 times longer when your kid is young. So, think about the frustration and you have to pack the diapers and the medicine and the And then when they start becoming full human beings, it's such an amazing experience, isn't it? Like now you're getting your life back. So, I don't want parents to feel guilty.
(13:26) I don't want mothers to put that on themselves. Triggering is part of the parenting journey, which is why you try to do conscious parenting because then you begin to learn why you're getting triggered, and then voila, you have a whole new insight about yourself, and now you've been given a beautiful gift to look at yourself.
(13:43) >> Yeah. And and I know people can hear this intellectually, and you talk about not just knowing it, but actually healing your way to conscious parenting. >> to know conscious parenting. You can't read conscious parenting. You can't love conscious parenting. You have to be conscious parent.
(13:59) You have to do it day by day, and it's so incredibly difficult because the work never ends. >> Yeah. >> It's never ending. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, and and if I'm not yelling or getting triggered by my kid, then I'm getting, you know, yelling and getting triggered by my colleague or my partner. It's it's a constant whirlwind, and the job is not not to get triggered.
(14:18) The job is to become better and faster at recognizing the trigger and getting out of the trigger. >> And I think if parents really understood that if they use whatever the triggers that's help coming up right now to resolve it, to be with it, it doesn't come up so or at least it's not a 10 out of 10. >> a 10 out of 10. It's like a 7 out of 10.
(14:33) Yeah, it's lighter >> than it was. >> Instead of 15 minutes, now it's lasting 5 minutes. Now you're quicker to repair. You know, you didn't say 10 curse words, you only said one. But you have to start somewhere. >> Totally. >> And it's okay to f it up. There's not I've never met one parent who hasn't messed it up like big time.
(14:51) Like said the worst thing to their kid. >> Yeah. >> I know I there are lots of >> moms, friends that I'm hearing in my head that are like I really messed up, and it's like no, everybody messes up at some point. >> Yeah. >> And there's resilience in that, and we can repair, and that's part of it. Have you ever felt like there's something more you're meant to do? Like you've outgrown the life that you're living, [music] but you don't know what comes next? Maybe you've checked all the boxes, and still something inside whispers, this isn't it. What if that
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(16:27) I'd love to hear cuz I know you developed a three-step framework to support parents in doing the work. I think it's called the parenting map. >> Yes. >> Talk to us about what this is. >> So, the first step is to recognize your conditioning. So, I teach parents to write down in every column your conditioning around money, happiness, success, beauty, marriage, love, sexuality, uh career, parenthood, every how to be a good mother.
(16:53) Write down all your belief systems because the first step is to become aware that you are conditioned. Like everything coming out of your mouth is recycled. Everything coming out of your mouth is rinse repeat till you evolve. >> I'm sure a lot of parents are like, I sound like my dad or I sound like my mom. And And we do. We parent that way.
(17:11) >> natural. >> Yeah. >> So, become aware. And to do that, you have to do some work. And you can read in my book The Parenting Map, and then the second step is to go deeper and to answer that question, you know, why is my ego showing up right now? And the ego is the part of us that protects us. So, why did I yell at my kid? That's the ego. The ego is a yeller.
(17:33) Now we're going deeper. I yelled because in that moment I felt like a failure. In that moment I felt like she was making fun of me. She was exploiting me. Oh, really? Like, what is your inner child saying? And then the third part is what do I do differently with my kid? So, there's three layers to every deconstruction and becoming a conscious parent.
(17:54) So, one is like, what is culture telling me? So, if my kid comes home with a C grade, the first part is, "Oh, oh my goodness, culture's told me a C grade is bad. I'm really panicking. I'm not a I'm not a good parent. My kid is not a good kid. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad." So, that's culture.
(18:11) So, now you're starting to step back and go, "Okay, culture tells me it's bad, but is it bad?" >> And that it's a reflection of you as the parent. >> me as a parent, so you're beginning to deconstruct. Then you're coming deeper. You know, say you yelled at your kid because they got a C grade. Now you're going even deeper.
(18:27) Okay, what part of my psyche feels really bad right now? Oh, I remember when I was 7 years old and I got a C grade, my mother yelled at me. Now you're getting memories. Now you're remembering the story you've created around that C grade. And you're going deeper. And this It could be becoming a doctor.
(18:43) It could be your kid has put on 10 lb. Your kid has acne. Your kid didn't get called to the junior prom. Anything. >> Mhm. >> Right? Why are you reacting? [laughter] Right? What's going on inside you? >> Yeah. >> And now you're tracing it back to some memories. You're beginning to understand, "Holy this is about me. I'm getting activated.
(19:02) " And then now you have to go, "Okay, if I didn't have that activation, if I didn't care about the C grade, how would I be? Who would I be if I was a mom who didn't care about grades? Oh, I'd love my kid. I'd be happy right now. We'd be having a great time. But instead I just shame them. I send them to the basement.
(19:17) I lock them up. I took away their iPad. I told them they can't go to the birthday party. Oh my goodness. So who can I be without my attachment to a grade? Oh my goodness, I'd be a Zen parent. I have parents telling me, "What if I didn't care about that? Then I'd be an amazing woman. My daughter would love me being with me.
(19:34) " Okay, so why don't you try being that? >> And using whatever age stage that their trigger is that your kids are to do our own healing work. >> Absolutely. >> Then it's like more digestible. I always loved that because then it wasn't I feel like I need to do a lot of work. I I mean my situation was that I got three kids at three and under overnight.
(19:50) So I didn't have a lot of preparation as a stepmom. But you know, I I do like chunking it over time to be like, "Okay, when my daughter was going through middle school and being bullied, it was bringing up my middle school bullying." Actually, in the way that she confronted the bullies and then it stopped overnight.
(20:07) I wished I had had that courage and I told her that and I was really inspired by her. But it also helped me heal a part of myself. >> Yes. >> And so yes, I can use my daughter at or my son or whatever age stage that they're at to help me heal that part of me directly, but I can also learn the courage that they had that I didn't. >> If you're willing to lean in and look at them as a teacher, right? That's what you were doing.
(20:30) You were not threatened by her different way. You weren't competing with her. You weren't challenged by that. It was a welcoming thing for you. And that's what our children can teach us if we lean into that. But many are so afraid to believe their children, to trust their children, to pass the baton, especially fathers and sons. I see that so much.
(20:50) Like the father doesn't want to trust the son with the with the wheel of the car and give that power and say, "Son, I'm going to follow you. I believe in you. You're my teacher now." Oh my goodness, most men can't do that. >> Why do you think that is? >> Well, they compete. >> Ah, I see. >> They're they're not ready to step off the throne yet.
(21:07) And many women compete. >> I wonder >> if Do you see more women compete with the same sex >> Yes, cuz it's typically with the same sex. >> And there's more projection work that can happen. >> because you identify, right? So then it's very hard to release respo- you know, my daughter will tell me, I'm being honest, she'll be like, "Why do you take all my feedback as criticism?" And I'm like, "It sounds like criticism to me, so that's why I take it like that.
(21:30) " She's like, "How about I'm not meaning it like that, and I'm meaning it as helpful feedback?" Okay, so guess what? That would mean I need to flip the script to she's not being mean, she's not a disrespectful child to she's a helpful adult. >> See, the opposite. >> I'm not willing to give her that that grace. >> Ah. >> That she's actually a good friend trying to tell me my hair looks awful right now or my outfit doesn't look good.
(21:53) >> Yeah. >> But I was not giving her the grace of like, "Wow, she has a contribution, she has something to say." I'd rather think, "Oh, what a disrespectful child." Because then that allows me to stay separate from her and correct her. >> Uh-huh. >> she told me that, I did inner work. >> Good for you. >> I was like, "Why am I doing this? What if she was a healthy, happy, contributing gorgeous human being giving me feedback?" Oh, then I would not get to look at her as a child.
(22:21) >> Mhm. Yeah, there's like a subtle sense of power and control that we still hold on to. >> Right, in a weird way we'd rather see our children as children to maintain control. >> Mhm. >> So even in our codependency, so for example, I have many adult children who will tell me, "Oh, my mother went to the chemist for me or my mother went to pick up my medi- medication or my mother filled my gas, my mother called the car company for me, my mother rented a car.
(22:45) " And I always will ask those children, "Why is your mother doing this?" And she's like, "Oh, she always does this." Now see, it sounds really like a helpful mother. >> Mhm. >> But it's not. It's actually a codependent mother who's enmeshed, who's crippling her daughter. And so then I'll tell the daughter, "You know, I think you really need to do that yourself.
(23:02) " And she's like, well, I could do it, but I like my mother doing it, right? But there's a unhealthy codependency being nurtured without any of them knowing about it, you know? >> And then it only shows up later in life. It gets more obvious when that dynamic splits. >> Well, it it may show up later where the where the daughter now is unable to do the work, or it may show up that the mother is burnt out.
(23:23) And the mother's not one She's wondering, why am I burnt out? Well, because you're doing all these extra things that you shouldn't be doing. >> And it seems like that. >> And it seems like love and care, and the other day a daughter came to me and she was upset because the her mother was not being a good grandmother. Now, let look at grandmotherhood.
(23:40) That's an institution. >> Uh-huh. >> That's a conditioning. Because what a good grandmother supposed to do? >> Yeah. >> You know, your kids are going to have a huge expectation about you being a grandmother. >> Uh-huh. >> So, I I always tell my daughter, listen, grandmother is optional. I don't I didn't sign up to be a grandmother, okay? But but mothers think that their mothers should be grandmothers.
(24:00) >> Yeah. >> Who said we need to be grandmothers? >> unspoken expectations around that. >> an institution. >> Yes. >> And then there's guilt. >> Yeah. >> But I didn't sign up to be a grandmother. >> Yeah. >> I don't want to be a grandmother. >> [laughter] >> I love that. >> But then I'm going to be looked at I'm just saying in general.
(24:14) So, when this daughter's complaining that, oh, my mother doesn't come over. My I Did you ask her permission? Did you ask her to be a grandmother? And she's like, no, she's just supposed to want it. How is that our right to expect our parents to be grandparents >> Yeah. >> in the traditional way, >> There's so many ways that we do that in life in general.
(24:34) Somebody's our boyfriends or partner. Now I have all these unspoken expectations that I place on them. >> now you have to only look at me if you're my husband. You only are supposed to desire me. I mean, it comes with like this subscript agenda, like the surgeon's warning on a on a cigarette pack, like it's very faint, but it's it could kill you.
(24:51) >> See what's in there. >> It'll kill you. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> And I know this year you wrote two books, one about raising daughters, one about raising sons. Before we dive into the differences, could you talk to us about just what are some of the general differences with raising sons and daughters? >> There's so many differences and most parents, you're parent of girls and boys, so you know. They're so different.
(25:11) They're different animals, different creatures, different monsters. You have to treat them so differently. And I think that we sometimes in our desire to be progressive and inclusive, which is so important, so important, but we cannot also flatten the curve. It's okay to talk about differences and honor how bloody different we are.
(25:32) So, the main differences are, I think, that boys have testosterone and dopamine. >> Mhm. >> That makes all the difference. And girls have estrogen and oxytocin. They both have the others' hormones, but the other one has it disproportionately more. >> [snorts] >> So, men will tell me, "Go take some testosterone." Like, please.
(25:51) >> I did one time. >> I did. I have so much compassion for teenage boys. >> Yes. What happened to you? >> I broke out with so many pimples and I was so turned on and aggressive. >> [laughter] >> You wanted to have sex with everyone. >> with everything. >> had no patience. >> Yes. >> You were irritable.
(26:06) You wanted to punch a wall. >> I was like, "I got to get off of this." >> Yes. Yes. I have many women in post menopause telling me that they took a little bit of testosterone and they're like, "Oh my god, I want to have sex with everyone." >> [laughter] >> Right? And they had And men say this to me, "Can you please don't lecture me? Just take some testosterone.
(26:21) " >> Yeah. No, it's fair. >> Like, you'll you'll zip it. You'll never ever complain about men's horniness >> [laughter] >> or men's aggression again. So, testosterone is a defining element. We have testosterone, but just not as much. They have 15 to 50 times more. >> Wow. >> So, if we understand that, we can understand that boys need to be treated differently.
(26:42) Boys are extremely physical. They feel as much, but through their body. So, don't ask them to use their words and sit in circle time and, you know, and and process. Testosterone is the >> of novelty and pursuit and competition and competence and achievement and risk-taking and exploration. So, don't tell them to go brush their teeth.
(27:03) >> Mhm. >> Make them find the toothpaste. >> Mhm. >> Make them look for it in the yard and dig and scavenge and hunt and >> They would love to do that. >> forage. >> Yeah. >> That's in their wiring. >> Yeah. >> And for girls, make sure you understand that they are feeling a tremendous amount of pressure to perform and to get validation because girls are relationally sensitive.
(27:25) Girls figure out who they are through their bonds. So, when she's crying because her friend didn't text her back within 7 minutes, don't call her dramatic. And when she's overanalyzing every text and counting the exclamation marks and talking about why they use this emoji and not that emoji and this matters to her because her estrogen and oxytocin is making her extremely sensitive to nuance.
(27:51) And the boy is like, "Oh, I don't even know what you're talking about, right?" So, they are different creatures. They they need different parenting and the algorithm is treating them, maneuvering them, manipulating them in very different ways. And the faster we can pay attention to that and understand the red flags, the faster we can help them in real time.
(28:12) >> Beautiful. Yeah, and I think it's such important work that you're doing, so thank you. And I want to talk about girls first and some of the problems that they face and then we'll switch over to sons, I guess, or daughters. So, if a a parent is noticing that their child, their daughter, is feeling less confident >> Yes.
(28:28) >> and less herself, what would be the first step to support her? >> The first thing you you tell her is it's okay. And you don't tell her, "Well, you're so beautiful. You're so smart. Why aren't you more confident?" Because understand that when a child feels anything, it's because they're talking about their internal world.
(28:52) It doesn't matter how many cars they have in the driveway, how beautiful they are, if they just won the pageant or the spelling bee. So, don't even bother trying to assure them that their reality is not what they think it is. Every human being wants to be validated and then normalized and empathized with. I call it vent, V E N T, validate, empathize, normalize and then talk about transformation.
(29:16) >> Yeah. >> So, if she's not feeling confident, put your hands up and go, I get you. Something's going on. I want to help you. Get in the ditch, under the blankets, don't leave. >> Mhm. >> Show her that you understand her by validating her. The greatest confidence you can give her in that moment is, I believe you. I see you. I hear you.
(29:35) I I want to be here for you. You're so important. I'm going to stop everything and just listen to you. Now, that's going to build confidence because I'm so important. My mother wants to listen to me. >> And I'm accepted in my full human experience. >> as who I am. The other day, a client said to me, you know, >> [snorts] >> uh I just ruminate and overanalyze everything.
(29:55) >> Mhm. >> And so, I said to her, okay, so do I. So, it's okay. Let's live and manage what we have versus trying to not be who we are. You're an overthinker, you're ruminator, you're an overanalyzer. I got you. >> Mhm. >> you. And she was like, that's it? I just need to accept myself? I said, well, then you can change.
(30:15) But first, we have to accept. change from self-loathing. Yeah. We have to change from self-acceptance. First is acceptance. >> Mhm. >> Accept the pimples, accept the cellulite, then you can go do something about it. But we cannot be hating our bodies and then loving them when it's changed >> Yeah. >> to what we Because then we're waiting for the next downfall.
(30:36) The next thing is coming that we need to change, the nose or the earlobe or the double chin. I mean, there's always something to tweak. >> Yeah. >> So, we first have to accept the as is and then we can move into constructive change. >> Yeah, I am 100% in alignment with that. And I know you've said one of the most damaging things we can say to our girls is to be nice.
(30:54) >> Yeah. >> And often times like that has taken their voice and you've shared that online and I've been so grateful that you've done that cuz then they're I think I heard you say that then they'll conform and those are usually the girls that grow up to be women who are manipulated >> easily. >> Yeah, but the con of that, the shadow of that is you'll have a girl who may go too far in being too rude, right? Or disrespectful.
(31:20) She'll be like, I don't care. And I don't care, right? Because you taught her not to care. Yeah. So you taught her not to care about what people think including your opinion. So then she's like, Mom, I don't care. >> Yeah, yeah. >> And then then it's going to poke you. So you have to understand to raise an empowered girl to raise a girl who knows herself and can listen to her inner voice, she's going to not be caring about your voice.
(31:43) >> Uh-huh. >> And and you're both going to have to stand sovereign in your queendom and not compete. You can't compete. >> That's beautiful. >> Because if you're really holding it like, oh this is for my empowerment and to to be an example for my daughter that she can feel her own royalty, the regalness of her being.
(32:01) >> Yes. And it works both ways. So if she then tells you, how come you don't want to be like me or think like me or Mom, you should do this, then you get to say, I don't need to feel like you. I don't need to think like you. But you begin to sow the seeds early at two, three, and four.
(32:20) And then it becomes the oak tree way later where she can be okay with you not being like her and you can be okay with her not being like you. And it's called differentiation. It's so important. You know, we have to differentiate. That's the whole point of parenthood is to go from enmeshment, which is the symbiosis of the early years and deep attachment and connection, to then cutting the cord, cutting the cord, cutting the cord, cutting the cord.
(32:46) The other day my daughter, who's 23, who's who's quite I would say connected and sometimes enmeshed, said to me, "And Mom, you're going on this tour and I won't see you for 2 months." Right? And I said, "I know. I know that's hard. And it you know, who cares? Like so what? Like now you're 23, you got to learn >> Mhm. Mhm. >> that we got to cut the cord, right? So developmentally appropriately, we need to do both the connection and the cutting the cord.
(33:14) But many parents don't cut the cord and they stay enmeshed and they allow their children to stay enmeshed. >> And then the kids don't find their power. >> because the kid won't the kid may not differentiate if it's so comfortable and lovely, right? Why should they unenmesh from you? >> I mean, I remember my mom telling me to order the pizza on the phone and I was so scared.
(33:31) But she's like, "You're ready." You know, >> You have to cut the cord. You have incrementally and in alignment with who it is they are, >> [clears throat] >> but sometimes you got to be a little bit more boundary than even they are ready for. You know, especially after 18, 19, 20. My daughter's 23. Yeah, she wants to crawl back into the womb and I have to keep keep letting her know it's not it's not her womb anymore.
(33:54) There's a time and place and it's okay to create those boundaries with our children. >> And I know you talk about girls will, you know, because we're relational, we'll go into a room and just kind of try to find our way and conform. Can you talk to us about if if a parent is seeing that their daughter is starting to create people-pleasing patterns, what's something that they can do? >> Well, you teach her that she doesn't need to please you.
(34:16) Uh keep checking in with her, is this what you want or what do you think I want? >> I want to pause. You teach her to not please you, which I can hear some parents like, "Wait, what?" And if you see that there's a deeper gift and that this is ultimately for you and your child, >> Yes. Then of course you're going to.
(34:32) >> Yes, yes. It strokes your ego when your child pleases you. Conforms. >> When they conform. When they go, "Me, too." Right? Anything you say, "I want sushi." "Me, too." You right, they offer you no resistance. Who likes resistance? Nobody. Right? That's why resistance training, strength training is so difficult because it it takes effort.
(34:53) But, it's in the resistance training that your body goes goes stronger, correct? >> That's right. >> So, therefore, we have to teach our daughters to resist us. >> Mhm. >> So, if you find them too much being the yes girl, and it's your your all just coasting, and you tell your therapist, "Oh, we never argue." That's a problem.
(35:10) >> Mhm. >> Your kids should be pushing back. Your kids should be arguing. Your should have conflict. >> tighter you hold them, the more often times they will push back. >> Right. Eventually, they will. So, they will push back because you're too tight and too controlling, but they'll also not push back because you're too tight and too controlling.
(35:27) >> Right? They'll become very compliant. >> Yeah. And in some ways, you want to celebrate the push back within like a respectful way to support their autonomy. >> Correct. So, you don't want the push back to be an explosion. Yeah. You want the push back to be daily >> Healthy. >> daily irritations.
(35:41) You should be irritating each other every day, a little bit. Like a little bit of the pressure being released from the pressure cooker. You know, y'all should be grumbling about each other every day a little bit. >> Yeah. >> Every day, you should have a little bit of a irritation. Yeah. That that shows healthy rubbing against each other.
(35:58) >> that parents are hearing this because I remember when I heard Dan Siegel say that when children were having tantrums, that meant their brain was developing. And when I heard that, when my kids were young, I was like, "Oh, their brains are developing." >> Yeah. >> So, as you're saying like these irritations, it gets to be celebrated.
(36:12) Like strengthening. >> We're practicing resistance training. We're practicing a little bit more. Add a little bit more weight. Add a little bit Oh, wow, we didn't fall apart. Right? And I'm always telling my daughter, and I tell other parents, "Tell your kid, 'Look, and we're still here. >> Yeah. >> I'm not going >> Yeah.
(36:28) >> Look, we can argue, we can fight. Don't be afraid of arguing and conflict. It's healthy individuation in practice. >> That's beautiful. Yeah. Okay, so talk to us about our sons because oftentimes they're getting contradictory messages. Like, be strong but not vulnerable. >> Yeah. >> Be strong but not domineering.
(36:46) Like, what should what what does that do to our boys and what should we do instead? >> Yes, we're teaching them to be this caricature of grotesque exaggerated masculinity and then we're teaching them, okay, but don't be an >> Yeah. >> Right? He's like they're like, I don't know how to not be an if I'm going to be like that.
(37:02) >> Yeah. >> Or we teach them to be vulnerable and empathetic and kind and gentle and use your words but don't be a wimp, right? Don't don't be weak and don't be like a girl. >> Yeah. >> Right? So, what are we doing? We're confusing the heck out of them and I think after the Me Too movement, we've terrified these men now.
(37:18) And then we're like, why aren't you initiating? Why aren't you being, you know, chivalrous? Why aren't you asking me out? Well, guess what? >> I'm >> They're scared to ask you out because if they ask you out and you're they're the wrong guy and they're not George Clooney, you'll go and report them. Right? So, now men are terrified of women.
(37:36) So, that's why they love just being in their basement, playing video games and watching porn. >> Yeah. >> Right? That is so lovely. Why should I ever leave this cave? And then give me my AI girlfriend and give me the robot. I'm never leaving here. >> Yeah, crazy. >> I I don't need to deal with real women who confuse the heck out of me. >> [laughter] >> And there's not a lot of great examples in the public eye, I would say, of like really healthy men.
(38:01) I mean, I know there are some but like I think we need more. >> Yeah, where are they? >> Yeah, I need yeah, more examples of that. >> But I wrote this book Raising Conscious Sons because I was scared that I wasn't finding beautiful models out there and I was so angry with adult men and I'm like, okay, where does it start? It starts in the house.
(38:18) How can I empower parents to raise their boys with a conscious masculinity that no one talks about so that when they grow up they will take care of my daughter, right? And the women in my life. So, if you love women and children and daughters, you need to be raising your sons differently. And all mothers of sons, get my book Raising Conscious Sons.
(38:35) And if you don't have a son, buy it for someone who has a son. Because I promise you, parents don't have a blueprint, and I've given you one. >> What would you I'm just curious, what would you say is healthy masculinity? >> Healthy masculinity is not putting a label, a box on your son. Just like it is for girls, right? What is healthy femininity? Don't tell me who I should be.
(38:55) Don't tell me what I should wear, right? Allow them to develop into their body and their essence and their soul as they are. They will be on their own a healthy masculinity. It's when we put a label on it, like don't cry or cry or, you know, earn a lot of money or have big muscles or have a square jaw or be an alpha male.
(39:17) Those boxes limit and poison and distort masculinity. >> Yeah, beautifully said. I know you've talked about sons who sometimes stop talking to their parents, and they go a bit more quiet. >> Yeah, that's normal. >> Yeah, can you share like what what's happening to give some guidance? >> Well, two things may be happening. One, their natural brain development is less formed than the girls in terms of their verbal areas.
(39:40) Their left and right brain hemispheres do not connect fast as fast as girls as strongly as girls. So, they're more fragile, boys. So, they don't talk about their feelings because their left and right don't connect as quickly as girls. That's why girls can quickly talk about their feelings. We're so good at it. Because our interconnections in the in the hemispheres is much more robust, much stronger.
(40:01) >> I didn't realize that. >> Yes. So, their brain is not developing in a way that allows them to talk about it. Number two, when they do cry and talk about their feelings, they're getting the subtle conditioned messaging that they're like a girl and don't be like a wild So, do if you you know, damned if you do, damned you don't.
(40:18) Um so what I want to tell parents is that boys are feeling deeply. They're just showing you how they feel. >> Mhm. >> They are a bottom-up processor, not top-down like girls. So don't ask them to use their words. Allow them to move. Allow them to express. Yes, give them a corner where they can throw the pillow and hit the wall and throw a dart um because they have all this energy that wants to come out.
(40:48) And the other thing that we need to remember with boys is that their feelings are mostly around purpose. So if they feel lack of purpose, they're going to have bad feelings. Girls have bad feelings because they're not in relationship. Girls typically want to be in relationship. >> Mhm. >> They thrive in relationship and they drown in relationship.
(41:09) >> Yeah. >> Boys will drown if they don't have purpose or contribution or service. So that anger is a sign I don't have purpose. Give a boy purpose. Make him feel useful, right? We women know men want to feel useful. Like they want to they want to pick your suitcases. They want to you know fix the light bulb.
(41:27) Even though you can get the light bulb fixed yourself or give it to your man. Let him feel good, okay? >> So boys because of their testosterone are purpose-driven. They want to feel competent. So I remind mothers that you know let your boy pick up your plastic bags from the grocery store. Let him do something to feel like he his value is missed when it's not there.
(41:52) That boy will not squander himself. But the boys who are hiding in basements, you know, addicted to video games, those are boys who have lost purpose. >> Mhm. I'm also it's like a reframe on chivalry as well. >> Yeah. >> Like giving them purpose and something to do to feel valuable or >> of you, to feel like [clears throat] they're providing, they're protecting.
(42:08) I know these sound like stereotypical things, but there's a reason that they have sustained themselves. It's because men are evolutionarily wired to protect and provide. I mean, because they were bigger and faster. That's all. Not because they're better. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we all have different roles. >> Yeah.
(42:24) >> In closing, just if if there's anything that we haven't spoken about that you feel like it would be really valuable for people to hear. >> I want parents to realize that they are empowered to have a great impact on their children. And I think parents are feeling helpless and hopeless, and they've given up their power to the algorithm or to the external world, and I want parents to get their power back, which is why I've written these books.
(42:50) Your children need you. They want you. You're the main person in their life. You need to be there even though they're deep in their video games or they're deep with their friends. Don't lose your influence, and these books are going to empower you to take your influence back. >> That's really beautiful, and I I think it's so important that you and I both know as therapists that childhood is the foundation for our lives.
(43:13) And so, the more we can work on ourselves as parents and also raise more conscious children. Like that is what changes the world. >> I agree. I always say the evolution of the planet depends on the consciousness of the parent. >> I agree. Yeah, and it's really sacred work. Thank you for what you do. >> is. Thank you. >> And I know my audience is going to want to stay connected.
(43:32) Talk to us about what you're up to. >> Yeah, well, I have a beautiful community called the conscious circle that they can join, and these two books, Raising Conscious Daughters and Raising Conscious Sons. If you go to my website, drshefali.com, and order them there, you get all these bonuses. So, might as well do it there. >> Yeah, beautiful.
(43:49) We'll put all the links here below in the show notes. >> Thank you so much. And I have a podcast myself called Parenting and You, where I do real-life coaching to parents who are getting triggered. >> Bless. Okay, great. We'll put all the links below. Thank you for being here. Thank you for what you do. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the [music] world starting with yourself.
(44:09) It truly does make a difference. And if this podcast has supported you, one of the most impactful ways to help us reach more people is to simply press the follow [music] button. It really does help us grow and we are so grateful. I just want to say thank you [music] for being a living example of what it means to walk through the world with an open heart and mind.
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