How Cinema Mafia DESTROYS Lives. Industry Toxicity Exposed, Digital Age Failures,Creative expression
Great guy is really friendly. Impossible to act with many times because when the shot when the camera is all behind him and he's giving lines, he'll be doing jokes to you when you're acting. You have to avoid all of that control focus. Yeah. If I may ask, what is treating an actor well in that standard? Right. See, I'll tell you. I acted in a movie under a big banner. Which movie is that, sir? Uh, I won't tell the name because I'm scared of them. That's why. Okay. because that's how Canada industry is. Okay. So looking at the lens of uh Bollywood and all the other tollwoods the films uh how do you land a film? in my industry sees me they if they cast me in a character role typically they'll cast me in such roles cop head of organization lawyer you know very successful or big lawyer poet Maju Sultanuri was jail for one year for calling Hitlera one year writers and poets plotted in jail did you know that first democratically elected communist government in Kerala was dismissed communist parties wouldn't be allowed to win general election Stanley Hooper's book 9 hours to Rama was banned. The book Chandraini was banned. Audre men was banned. Campbell's the heart of India was banned. Coot and the robot was banned. Import of any newspaper that undermines friendly relations. No, I need to go on. Oh my god. See, Donald Trump, you know, can act so boldly, crazily if you wish, you know, whatever you like, you can say. Okay. So that he can do this completely extreme things is because he knows he can never become president ever again. Versatility is not about doing many things but doing many things well. Well well with a line like this uh it has to be one Mr. Prakash Bwadi sir on just curious English. So lastly, I mean previously my interaction with him was for Just Curious Canada. Uh as Canada is my first language and the language that I think in flawlessly things just flowed. But now uh with you in the studio sir firstly we meeting after a year how are you doing? And uh a lot has changed from last last time you know in the sense uh the cap and the whole look. So should I remove the cap? Is it okay? I forgot that. No, no. This is so cool. So, is it also a kind of a reflection of what phase of life you're in? No. Last year I spent a lot of time as you know in Australia and uh also in I did 76 shows in 28 in uh Melbourne, 28 in Sydney and 20 in New York. So, I spent a lot of time there and typically when I'm abroad I wear I wear caps. I may have lost about two lakhs worth of caps, you know, because it's not something I'm used to. So, wherever I go, I I lose the cap and come and caps are very expensive, you know, two lakhs. Yeah, that's a big number. Yes. Okay. So, this is a gift from an Australian friend this cap, you know. So, I had three of such caps. One, you know, I've lost two of them, but this one I have. So, it's okay. So, it's just the cap you've lost. But you're always building your identity through these many years with multiple things that you do. Be it theater, be it journalism, be it activism or be it just the curious soul that you are. So 2025 it is. Uh what are you looking from life is a question probably I would just like to start a converation with. I am 64 now and um I've been promising myself it's like that movie revolutionary road that you'll do something important you know that something that's important to yourself and uh I want to write and I want to write about my life and my experiences as a as a set of three novels. Oh you know um which roughly each covering onethird of my life and it should be a kind of biography of the place that I've that I that I've experienced the most which is the city of Bangalore. Okay. And I've been telling myself that I'll do it and I've always worried whether I should do it in Canada. Mhm. Or in English. Mhm. But now talking to you when I'm thinking about it because the answer has suddenly come to me. Maybe I should just write it as it comes to me in Canada, some party in English and I should not care. I don't know if anybody has done that but I want to try it. Wow. While I think you were coning, you spoke about um you promised yourself to do something which is important to yourself. Um but the man like uh you and the journey that you've had so many years in the industry uh dawning multiple hats what did you mean when you said doing something important to yourself at this phase you know you know bish there's a thing in Christianity you know of uh in in Catholic Christianity of the confessional you know uh whatever It's a, you know, ritual meaning um is, you know, whatever it whether it takes you to heaven uh or to whatever that they think it takes them to. I'm not interested in that. But I acknowledge that there is a cleansing um of of the of the conscience um by admitting if you've done something wrong. And um when I say wrong, I don't mean necessarily sin, you know, or making some making a mistake or taking some professional course instead of another professional course or taking some job or a career instead of another career, marrying some person instead of another person or whatever kind of thing. That's not what I mean. I mean it's a set of follyies that we are you know we never really know what we are going what we are doing. Mhm. You know we do something anyway and you know what we do is dictated you know a lot by pure pressure by circumstances you know by lack of knowledge mostly ignorance. Mhm. And a lot of it what is like imitation because of peer pressure and what is fashionable at the time. And uh nobody knows sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn't but one thing is for sure if you're passionate and dedicated with committed to doing something well very very often it turns out very well for you. So uh so I want to like record this like a like a story to myself. I don't know who will read it but I for one will would have would have um composed it in my head. Encapsulated the whole journey again. Yeah. And yeah I'll go through it again in my head at least. So I see a lot of I'll understand it. smirk on your face, you know, because uh when you when I say I do it for myself, it's because this is not a like a professional thing to do. I'm I'm not a professional uh writer and I hope one of the my one of my great fears is that if I write in Canada first this you know Canada sahitis and even worse the only people artistic people worse than Canada sahitis are Canada sahi saitya critics you know I don't want you know this to fall into their hands and they will comment on it you know I'm hoping that they will see me as not important enough to read uh if I do write in Canada which I feel tempted to you know so let me see no I'll write it and you know I will write a preface saying you know like you know please you know you don't have to read it don't feel obligated I want to write as a special request to sahis you know sitis and Canada sahitya critics Canada sahitis and Canada sahitya critics you know you should not read this book. I'm I'm suggesting I'm writing it for myself and people like me who are neither sahitis nor professional thinkers nor professional intellectuals you know so yeah what's the fear like because you mentioned you had three novels like one third two3 and the the the you know there is no fear it's just that I realize it takes it takes commitment like you have to write every day you know and that means I should Not I should not do take so much acting jobs. Mhm. Which I'm okay with. I'm I'm already beginning to say no to many Canada films. Okay. Okay. Some Hindi films also I begin to say no to. Okay. So I think there'll be less and less work to do and you know and people will lose interest in me also. They'll they'll I think they'll not they'll not ask me to do as many roles as they're asking. you know I am older and I'll become even more older so that will stop I think the so that I doesn't bother me that much because I'm not I'm not somebody who wants to be known as an actor you know uh I would rather be known as a theater person mainly as a theater director and hopefully as a you know playwright because I I take up novels and you know convert them to plays quite a lot these days. So, so I would like to be known as a writer also in some way but as as writer as it means in English not as it means in Canada because in Canada writers are people in in government offices you see their photographs on the walls they're writers like our kampus like the bendres no they're actually the only people who won the ganipit award okay you know which is a private award you know that no it's not a government award right Okay. So even in government offices in a government that also gives awards they don't put the photographs of writers they have awarded as the first list the first awards are always the Ganopit awards you know and uh just because it's too celebrated I think I think you know in in my this is anecdotal in among the people I've met most people don't know that the Ganopit award is a pri award by a private trust. It's not by the government of India. Most people don't know. Very few people actually know and then some they react with great shock. It's a good they get that impression also because I think the award is given at Vigan Ban. So it looks like a government award you know but it's not. Can you throw some light as to what this award is? Who came up with this? see the the Times of India family, you know, um their founders of the Times of India group, the Bennett and Coleman Mhm. group I don't know at what time it was Bennett Coleman became part of the Times of India family. The James actually took control of it. I have no idea. But they they formed this trust I think and uh they appoint a panel and that panel gives gives these awards. Oh yeah. Okay. So there comes another a I was like okay so it's not a government it's not like see you know the other awards are different. I'll give you an example like film awards for instance. Mhm. So the government of the day the will form a minister of information and broadcasting. Mhm. They will that minister you know will form a jury. Okay. So let us say it is the BJP you know uh government. So the BJP government with extraordinary foolishness for instance you know got that Israeli guy to head the film jury for film awards. remembered a couple of years ago and he came and bashed Kashmir files saying called it a propaganda film that he was shocked and all that you know and that kind of mistake will happen only with with the BJP government because you know the overall the Spari war from the past has never been that much invest invested in you know in uh in the fine arts or in high culture you know of artistic cinema and literature and all they've not been you know they've been they mean their main focus has been Hindutwa and and and you know they'll pro they'll know a lot from that side perhaps okay but they don't know this so they can make mistakes which is okay I mean I don't find it right I'm just laughing because it was quite funny that they got they were so shocked by the jury they appointed now this will never happen let us say with the congressled establishment okay they're very bright and the and even brighter than the congress in this regard will be the communist you know the leftist the old leftist not leftist today Today everybody is a leftist you know if you can pause what's the difference between old leftist and the current scenario. See the old the old idea of leftist was somebody who is inspired by by a series of uh of thinkers you know who who thought about capitalism of of surplus production and how um you know there should be equitable sharing of resources. How they thought about you know of a class system an economic class system which also could become a social class system and how you need to need to eliminate people who control capital who don't do any work themselves who make money out of money itself but they employ labor in a kind of meaningless way where the labor does not know what what it's making the product for. So they create surplus and they create markets and they manipulate the markets and so on you know. So marks and angels you know from whom the idea of Marxism first came and a kind of series of revision uh revision of that idea actually it's it's a negative word in the old left. The revisionism itself is a bad thing. Oh that you dilute it for convenience for instance you know. So but for circumstances you know it was varied and inter interpreted as a leninism and then later as Stalinism and there were people who rebelled against it you know so there was a troskyism you know so there we we have ourselves in Mroy you know like Sar Bumay the father of of you know Basaraj bumai he was an emanroist for instance you know he was an atheist he didn't believe in was you know this rituals uh astrology and stuff a very rare politician. Okay. Mhm. So there are there were all kinds of things you know the quarrels of ideas we have uh loya and loyal a kind of unique Indian socialism that he thought of ramanohar loya that's the old left the new left is people who outrage on Facebook and all that. That's the new left you know keyboard warriors they're not not they what they're fighting for also is not very clear they're they get very upset that much I know they are the ones who have who shed tears when you know standup comedians are harassed by government for instance you know once praani asked me since you and you know I don't know whether you'll keep this story but I'll just say once praani asked me to participate in uh weekend debate that they do, you know, where you take you write uh some one person writes for an issue and one person writes against the issue. Okay. And this comedian, a stand-up comic called uh Manavar Farooqi. Okay. I don't like standup comedians, you know, that much. I I used to follow, you know, Josh Colin and people like that. I don't think I follow Indian comedians that much. Seinfeld. Yeah, Seinfeld. I've heard of him. Jerry Seinfeld. No, I have I have not seen any show of his but old ones. I'm really old. Okay. So, I I know that kind of thing. But that was not available then. I know them now because you know those videos are now available. Okay. So, I I know them you know. So but um these stand-up comedians have made a big name in India now. Okay. They're they're very well known. Many Indians are now very very well known. One of them is this Munawar Farooqi. Okay. And uh one day apparently he said I read in the papers it was reported that he said that he was very hurt that some show of his some si people were going to block and he gave up uh standup comedy which is uh I think quite tragic for himself and the people who follow him you know. Okay. And it's it's hard to sell it to me that it's a very tragic for India also. But you know some people have told me that that I'm really like ignorant and don't understand this. I don't actually understand it that much. But in this case they wanted me to write uh in support of uh the people who are harassing him. Oh and uh they would get somebody to write you know uh in favor of you know Munavar Farooqi and his pain you not being treated badly by the Sanpari. I don't know what he expected the Sari will treat him as I mean if you don't like them I don't think they will like you that much. Okay. Now I can't com comment with more authenticity than that because I've never watched a Munawar Faruki show. Then I told Pami that I'm not going to write um what they ask me to write. Okay. You know if they if they ask me to write I'll write and they have to print it otherwise they don't have to ask me. Then they said you know okay you write whatever you like. Then I said to give him the performer the protection that he deserves that is his right by the constitution of India to give him the protection to do his performance is the fundamental is a fundamental duty of government and it is the right of people who don't like what he says to protest against him but the protesters should be given another separate venue where do they do not obstruct the performance in any way. They can stand somewhere else and say protest against it and that protection that the protection to for them to protest also should be given and that is also a fundamental duty of the government is what I wrote and I also wrote there used to be a stand-up comedian in Canada called master haya. Yes. Uh and the and the followers of the present chief minister of Karnataka, you know, claiming they're followers of the present chief minister of Karnataka. Okay. They went and attacked him, scared him. that he spoke at some venue in Mysore and went away and they went to that venue after that through chairs and you know and uh and and issued threats and he went to the chief minister who was in Mysore at that time fortunately and the chief minister was gracious enough to arrange an you know an es police escort you know for Hanaya which is actually a blessing and to me in my opinion a warning you know as well you know and mastera uh maybe one of our greatest standup comedians in Canada you know his variety of it it was he would do it in a in a theater show he would do great monologues great mean greatly popular monologues okay some of it may be dodgy you may like it you may not like it okay but the thing is he did he was very popular right and no chief minister in the past had ever attacked him and after that master till he died never went on stage again and I did not see anybody shedding tears for him I said in that article the reason I tell you something like this is everything is a lot more complicated than we think today you know no every time it was but the people in power understood it was very complicated. So they thought a lot before they acted you know now they now they do knee-jerk reactions they act very quickly they talk very quickly can make fools of themselves by saying too much too quickly right so I realized that I have done all this what was fortunate for the public was that I was not important and I didn't do much damage so so I want to write because of that there are too many chapters here. So I think in your journey um taking the example from master haya's uh case that you just mentioned if I have to give a parallel for today we just discussed off the camera bunal camera facing a similar incident and today the whole uh the the the ecosystem has changed wherein knee-jerk reactions have been taken by power uh and people representing power um I mean where is this headed what do you think is happening uh see All power is like this you know is the nature of power. So maybe you should have term limits. See the reason uh say Donald Trump you know can act so boldly crazily if you wish you know whatever you like you can say. Okay. So that he can do this completely extreme things is because he knows he can never become contest for president to become president ever again. Mhm. M so if you have term limits what will happen is you understand you have this this chance this from action to cut is just that one take so in India in the US it's just two takes okay you have to finish it by then so I feel three sir two no you can only do two terms in the US okay sorry yeah I think Obama also has done only two right you can't do more than two terms right right actually they wanted term limits for even the uh you know for the for elected representatives you know in in both the Senate and uh Congress and House of Representatives but you know they kept it for themselves but limited it for the president right but whatever it was you know if Narendra Modi had been given two terms only when he got elected in 2019 in 2014 okay he he gets elected and he begins to do a series of things by 2016 he'll begin to worry about 2019 and then he'll begin to sole down and you know uh soften some things so he can win again and when he wins again okay is if he's going to win again he's going to he's going to moderate himself in some direction so that he can win again right so it should have been the other way around you promised something you came to power and you have 5 years to complete what you want to what you want to do and should not be given another chance then you know it would have been different maybe you know right I'm not I'm not blaming him given the way things are going now if there's an election I'm going to vote for him and campaign for him again you know but I feel there should have been term limits so your question where is this going is if you if you keep electing somebody in power staying in power becomes can become the most important thing for that person right however I I think you know the outrage sometimes if not too many times for my comfort at least is fashionable rather than meaningful because there was no pro outrage that there was not that much outrage about what happened to master Hanaya for instance were the times different was social media not there what's what what's so different look Mr. Sidamaya was the chief minister of Karnataka in his previous term very recently just 7 years ago he was chief minister so it's not some there was Facebook there was Google there was Twitter there was everything you know I'm not look it don't look it may it may hurt when I say this but you know the outreach is very selective always okay yeah it is very selective see I'll give you an example the previous Sidama government banned two books in Karnataka written in Canada. Okay, that is Yogesh Master wrote a book on Ganesha. Okay, I've not read the book. I don't know whether it's good or bad, but it was banned. Okay, it was banned. There was another person who wrote a book on Walmiki. But when that book was banned, I'll tell you what they said in the assembly that all the copies of the book should be collected. Okay? And those books should be set on fire along with the person who wrote it. Damn. Okay. Today's left is like that. You know, uncivilized, uncou you know that your daughter should not marry. Okay. M those are the people that are in the houses of parliament and houses of of the assembly and council in Karnataka many of them are like that okay that is what they said actually they should have been in prison when they said that you know elected representatives that's what they said what I'm saying is there was no outrage there was a huge outrage at that time uh because u there was this lady this uh lady who wrote a book on Hindus. The Hindus, she wrote a book actually. I don't know what that category is. The word itself is not Indian. Hindu is not a Indian word. Anyway, so Wendy Donniger I think her name is. Okay. Okay. You can check Wendy Donner. Okay. Her name is her book was on the New York Times bestseller list at that time. Okay. But there was a publisher. Mhm. She had a publisher who had printed copies of her book and he he pulped those books. The government did not ban it. Mhm. Okay. The government of India did not ban the book but it was pulped. Previously you know there was a book on Gandhi that was banned. Salman Raji Sadanic verses was banned in India. There was no outrage. Of course, satanic was a long time ago. There was no scope for outrage. But I feel typically in this country if there's a dii or a indic or a agenda behind. No, everybody has agenda. Why would you write a book otherwise? You know, it's nobody's asking you to write a book like you've not been commissioned. If somebody has commissioned you to write the history of India, you know that is an agenda already, right? So basically everybody has an agenda. My thing is what is the agenda? If the agenda suits the government, they let the book be there. Even if it's controversial, you know, if the UPA government was there, uh Kerala story would have been banned. Even Kashmir files may have been banned. Right? It depends on who is in government. If this government is there, what will they do? Let us see what is what are the possible things they can do. You know what Kunal Kamra is talking against Narendra Modi. If Kunal Kamra is running a company or there is a sponsor that he has the sponsors company may get a ED right or you know income tax raid or something or the location got vandalized that anyways has happened. That is that is rowdism that is against the law. See difference different different things vandalize anyone some guy got killed in the street you know yesterday right that some that sushil shetty or somebody you know he got he got killed you know uh and you know the people who came and killed him you know did it where video video cameras were on them they took their time to kill him on the street that kind of action is there you know that is not done by government shall is it correct to say that was done by government. That's not correct. There are vandals, okay? They may get government protection later. Okay? That that possibility is there. So they can do it with impunity, you know, because they think nothing can happen to them. That kind of thing can happen. Then you should blame the government quite correctly. So the if the vandals who did it to his to the venue which hosted him and you know they feel free that in a BJP government they can do what they want. Okay. So if they feel that the government in power of the time can do it your opinion should be this that it's a crime in any case. M see if a if a crime happens you know if you're a gen if you're genuinely a lawabiding person whether you are in the left wing or right wing or middle wing or no wing whichever you are if you're a lawabiding person if somebody does a crime you should say it's a crime without finding out who did it right today the outrage is not like that once the crime happens You find out who did it and then say look this person has caused to do it. Actually whether you have cause or not the crime is a crime in any case. Okay. The reason why they tie that black cloth to the lady you know who is holding the taki you know is that you know because you just implement the law you know and you hear evidence and go by it. This is what it is right. The trial is whether it's a crime or not. That's all. Whether an offense has been committed or not, that is the trial, right? The the outrage on media, whether it's social media or unfortunately even regular media, you know, they have as much credibility or a little more maybe I don't know than social media. I can't see that they have greater credibility than that because you know which paper will give what opinion on an issue. Okay. M so you look I I lose I lose the track on the question itself that where is it going it is going exactly where it was before it is just that it is amplified now in social media so you think it's become much worse it's not become much worse it was always this bad neu was a great you know sensor he in his time he censored many things you know so he got angry with lyricist you know that kind that's the kind of person he was too tell the story because I'm not sure if many of us know this you know there is an extremely famous rant by Anand Ranganatan I think there are 29 he lists some 29 or 59 things that Neu banned poet Maju Sultani was jailed for one year for calling Hitler one year writers and poets plotted in jail did you know that first democratically elected communist government in Kerala was dismissed Communist parties wouldn't be allowed to part general elections. Stanley Hooper's book 9 hours to Rama was banned. The book Chandraini was banned. Audrey Men was banned. Campbell's the heart of India was banned. Co the Lotus and the robot was banned. Import of any newspaper that undermines friendly relations. No, I need to go on. I need to go on because this rubbish fake narrative needs to be busted right here and right now. Fish Aisha was banned. Bren Russell's unarmed victory was banned. Robson's film 9 hours to Rama was banned. Sadly Martine was banned. Robert Taylor the dark earth was ban. Selling lady shhat's lover was banned. The book what has religion done for mankind was banned. Ratnav's kupat singh was banned. Import of any obscene drawing or painting was banned when film. Oh my god, what a censored world we all are living. Depends on how you know. So it's just that it is just that you should play a little bit of that, you know, because I said just that we pretending that things have got worse. What has got worse is the quality, you know, is the quality of opinion that that is generated and the quality of voices that get amplified on social media. So, it thinks because they're speaking loudly, they're making more sense. Actually, they're not making more sense, they're making less sense, which is why they're speaking so loudly. And at times they also get into all sorts of shaming uh harassments in terms of sex, cast, um racism and whatn not. See but identity politics is not not only practiced now identity politics is being promoted now. See what is identity politics for layman's understanding. I'll tell you identity politics is this. Now you you asked me to you know you asked me to do an interview with you. So I'll see you mainly as a communicator a media person. Okay that is a that is the most critically correct identity that I should recognize you by. But if I recognize you by gender I'm actually come to your show because I want to encourage women you know in media. So if I say you know I've come to this show because you're of a certain cast or because you know you know you you belong to a certain group or because of your skin color. This is you find you find identities that people can't help themselves with. See media is what you have chosen to do. Mhm. But your skin color, your height, your weight, your gender, your um um uh you know your uh language, you know, the religion you're born with. Unless you consciously make a decision to defy your family, the cir the community that makes you that you know you have to leave them, abandon them, get dassinated and change and become another religion. Otherwise, you know, it is something that is given to you because of the bed you were, you know, you were born in. you know that is what it is. So the the identity politics is actually capturing you know what people cannot help themselves with and either shaming them for it or valorizing them for it right so if you're called a Brahmin can you help help yourself you know what can you do to it if you're shamed for being a Brahmin you know so when when say Anurak Kashab says you know I'm going to piss on a Brahmin okay now at least you must say it's indecent So you're expecting brahinss to say inde it's indecent and a lot of them will say it and then you know you get a because you play identity politics because a lot of brahins say it is indecent then a g host of people will come and say no it's a good thing you're you're a hero Anurak kashab that's what happens correct so everybody plays identity politics in such a way that you have the prime ministerial candidate you know telling that you know jitney abadi Utna that means you know according to the population of your identity you know we'll give you rights you know what if BJP claims that if the SAP par claims that and say your identity is a Hindu so you have you must have the 80% rights is that okay then see I'm saying because see what is observed and stupid will be observed at stupid applied to this extent or applied to a large extent it'll be the stupid from beginning to the end. But if you be if you belong to that small sample of people and identify yourself with that group, it'll sound right to you. But it's nonsense always. Okay. The constitution does not allow all these things. Mhm. You know, but the person who carries the constitution of India, you know, in his hand and he's saying this does not understand the constitution of India. Correct. Right. So I'm saying but you know if you say that you know I'm criticizing him because he belongs to the Congress party I would criticize him if some idiot from Sangapar said it or somebody from JD has said it somebody from the communist party because it is stupid that's why I criticize it it's a stupid idea you know it's all democracy is already an evil in that sense you know because it's a necessary evil what happens in democracies you know just before you started the program. See what happens with democracy. With democracy because we have the first pass the post system that means let us say five people contest an election in a constitu of 100 people. Okay. A person and and maybe 60 people have voted. Okay. That's right. 40 people have not voted which means they have not given an opinion which means they don't care who who wins. So you have only 60 left. Okay. In the 60 the votes get divided in this way. One person gets five votes. One person gets 10 votes. One person gets 12 votes. One person gets 15 votes. Okay. And the fifth person gets the remaining which may be 24 votes. Let us say that guy will be the the person who got the highest votes will win. He's not got 100. He's not the majority. He's not got a majority in 100. He's not got a majority even in 60. True that. Yes. Correct. So we have 65% voting. Okay. in India let us say and then the Modi group forms the government with 40% of that 60% vote okay that means 25% of the people of India voted the government to power right so the 75% will be from some pe from people who don't care to people who really dislike you that's what it is so nobody really has mandate it's already this dity abadi Utnahak already has happened in one way. You want to subdivide and make this evil much bigger than it necess needs to needs to be. Democracy in the way we have it is a necessary evil. See in France if you have an election like this if five people contest the first two must go to election again. It's called a runoff and one of them wins it has to be 50%. Then it becomes of the people who voted. People who didn't vote who didn't vote they don't matter. people who vote it has to be at least 50%. That is the idea there you know I'm not saying you know you change it or something it's anyway too complicated you know I'm not saying but let's not have any illusions that somebody in power has got everybody is okay to be there and the difference is actually will be really marginal okay the the swing vote is only three or 4% there only three or four% of people who think who are dynamic you know who are not precommitted I will vote for you no matter what you do because you are my cast or you are my religion or you are my from you're from my balaga or something you know locality those people you don't care you know they're they're like that but there are the people who think and vote that may be like in India maybe 5% or 6% it's these 5% or 6% who are really powerful voters they are the ones who make or break government the others you can take for granted the bunch of idiots wow how did you become the man that you are today I mean every time I meet you it's surprise you know it's like a Pandora's box I don't know what's going to open like these many sheets this man has not touched anything that is in here as in you know we'll go by that because politics is like this you know it's not it's a compliment sir you know you're like Pandora's box like how did you fill all of this no Pandora's box is quite a negative term do you know what it actually means it actually opens up a lot of stuff that should have been kept yeah but in a Okay. From somebody's perspective, probably what you're saying could be a Pandora's box. I don't know. Yeah. So, I never watch any of show that I do because you know I'll then I'll get tempted to see comments that are there and you know and um the fool that I am I can get hurt. So, I don't watch somebody who's so well read still having a mind of your own. Why do you call yourself a fool? No, because to be vulnerable is like a really foolish. Now I think I'm going to attack the foundation now. I mean all actors are vulnerable. Uh but even if I'm not an actor I'm vulnerable. What's the importance of staying vulnerable? I mean so honestly you're saying yes I'm vulnerable and it's very important to be vulnerable to be a human being. Right. That is a problem because I want to be vulnerable. I'll read and I'll you in in the past I would reply to every one of them and all that love I want to but because I don't want to do that I'd never see. In the last 30 films I've done, I watched one. Oh yeah. Yeah. One film I watched. Crazy. So what it's it's like I mean why do you do that? Uh because I feel awkward to watch myself now. Why do you feel awkward? Because I feel I have like got an awkward body then have that this should I do that five eyes now? Why do you think you have an awkward body? I think it has to know. And I have a peculiar voice. I think so. So this is a man like you think you're an onion like I mean all humans are onions right like we have our own layers some layers are seen to the world but you know I that is always interpreted in many ways but I will say whatever you do you'll I'll still be onion that's what any layer you open I'll still be onion you know so yeah I'll not be something else you know if you open a layer that's what I mean you know yeah so now looking at your own life I now would want to dig some of it from the Bollywood uh lens and your panindia movies lens. Um, of course people in Karnataka respect you for the theater work and for the activists in some people in Karnataka respect me. Yeah. Yeah. Why do you say that? Sure. I'll tell you. It's true. Yeah. Okay. Um probably for people pan India, right? Um some for for some you could be uh the person in Madras cafe for some it could be Patan for some it could be Sahu um how have you understood your own audience as to how they are looking at you from the actor's lens people in Karnataka versus rest of the world there was this uh driver uh who who drove me to the airport once and uh he had just come from uh Andhra Pradesh from Chur or some place he had come he had just come to Bangalore he had come here because he was in love with some girl and because she's of a different cast. Okay. The parents had sent sent her to Bangalore. So he's come to Bangalore to find her. He's in touch with her and he wants to prove to them that he can earn money and stand on his own feet. So she so that some romance story he has got. He recognized me but he could not place me correctly. Then you know after he heard my voice actually my voice is peculiar. people recognize me as soon as they talk many times. Okay. Uh he he said he described the roles I do. He said I've watched you in many movies because they all come in dubbed in in Telugu. And he said you're always there where there is power. He said he said I remember you always in roles or in situations where power is operating. You're always there. He said and I think that is how the industry cinema industry sees me. They if they cast me in a character role typically they'll cast me in such roles cop head of organization lawyer you know very successful or big lawyer or you know you know CBI director kind of thing they'll do. Why did this happen? As in what what how did the perception of you being that? I feel people have micro gestures you know that we we can't easily understand what they are but you know by instinct many actors many people pick them up and you can see in the first three seconds like the like like you know that author says here who wrote blink you know in the first 3 seconds you assess a person although you over over time you rationalize with experience you know what you what you've already felt in the first 3 seconds. Mhm. But you know people instinctively judge I think other people and it's because of these gestures you know that they have that you can't really label because they're really two tiny things but together they make some sense when you see people and you feel like this person fits that role. Since you are also a director do you also do the same? Do you look at people and find I just completely submit myself to that. I don't do any I don't find out actors background what experience they have. I don't do all that. If they come for an audition, I'll just ask them to read and I'll just watch them and they read. Mhm. That's is that is how I cast. So looking at the lens of uh Bollywood and all the other tollywoods the films uh how do you land a film like they cast you or in my case uh what happened was Arjun Chakrar who managed me in Bombay for the longest time for more than 12 years. uh Arjun was the fourth assistant to Shujit Sarkcar and I knew Arjun's uh Chakrid because he was his family me family watched a serial I used to do in 2000 2001 called Gwa and they revealed they were fans of that uh serial and he was still in uh high school or early college you know school and he watched that series and Then he went to Manipal to study to study Mascom. He told me that he went there because he watched Gerva. He wanted to become a filmmaker, director and he kept in touch with me o you know through Facebook and he would he came to finished his graduation came to Bangalore and he was working for a TV channel here and then he told me that you know he I was his uh that he found me he in I that I inspired him and you know he would wanted my advice on what to do. I told him what do you want to be he said I want to be a director. I said go to Chennai or to Hyderabad or to Mumbai wherever you can go for and work for 5 years without a salary because there's a guru thing there's not something you can learn in college I said you know I said you go there because we still don't have a school of that quality you know a school system of that quality for cinema even till date even till date we have you know institutions they take what 10 people you know FDI maybe they take 10 or 12 people in satir institute for each course you know for film making or for cinematography and so on and there's many private institutions but for a population of this size we have very few we should have had more film making movie image making uh schools in India then we have say engineering colleges or arts colleges for instance you know so many of them you know waste they'll never get a job doing being an arts graduate so you have to learn something else to to get a job. So there should have been and I told him to go and he went and he he used to ask me to act in TV commercials ads. I said I won't do. Then one day he said look I said I'm sending you two scenes and character sketch for Madras cafe and I thought very good writing. I said who wrote it? He said we have a writer in this company called Juichi Chetrui and Sujit Tarka himself is very good know that he said had not watched anything Sujit Tarka had done then you know I did an audition he said we will not call you you can do the audition yourself and send I did with my own group Balaji Manor everybody was there Ajit Tandi Dya Balaji's now wife everybody was there we we shoted Suchra I brought my own costumes and we shot it and Uh I sent that and there were 52 people who had auditioned for it. Mine was the second one that Shujit Sarkar watched and they told me later that he saw me and he said who is this guy and somebody pointed to Arjun and said that he had found me said if you can get somebody who is better than this you call me otherwise we'll call this guy that's how I came into film and after that people have called me continuously for one one way or the other they found my number and called me then uh 2 3 years later I appointed Arjun as my manager in Bombay and then they would call Arjun and say you know take the number and know or they would get it from the in the in the network my number is now available they all know they'll call me the first uh first a casting director will call me or a casting director company somebody will call and say there is such a role oh they'll describe the role and the director and the company that will make the film and they'll say would you like to act in such a film. Okay. Uh then I'll say yes. But if I hear the story or they send me the script, sometimes they'll send the script. But most almost all every time the the director or the associate director will call me. Usually the director will call if it's a Bombay film the Bollywood film and they'll describe the entire story to me or sometimes they'll come here to Bangalore sit with me and tell me the entire story if it's a web series or and then I agree and then Arjun talks to them rates and dates and all that and that is how it is done even now we maintain it except Arjun is not the one who does it now My own son-in-law Nikl Nana does it, you know. I don't have any agent. I don't have any agency. I just I just respond to calls that come to me. I don't look for roles. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's quite a good mix. Like there is Airlift with Akshai Kumar. There is Patan with Shah Ruk. There's Baby John, there is Sanju, there is Sahu, there is I mean there's a good mix. It's a good mix. So what do you look um when you say yes like is it the director is it the star or is it what it does to you in terms of money or the kind of roles or the impact that your character has on audience what do you look sir money is important of course but mainly I look for see ideally look I look for it's very difficult to get that but ideally look for a role which has a trajectory what what I mean by that is the character should affect affect the story and the happenings of the story should keep affecting the character. So the character keeps the character's mental framework you know keeps changing. So you know his anxieties should go his or her anxiety should go up or down and you get affected by the story and you have to change your perspective what you had held as dear you have to give up you know like all that you know if you have that trajectory you know where this you're getting affected by the story then that is a more interesting role so but if you get a if you get a stereotype for instance a cop you know who comes in investig stigates. He was always investigating from the beginning till the end he'll just be an investigator. But if the cop affects the story like in Madras cafe the raw agent affects the happenings of the story and he gets affected by the happenings of the story you know till eventually blows his brains out you know so because that that trajectory that person in control who completely loses control you know where he affects the story and the story affect and gets affected by the story those are the best roles okay And uh you get them very very rarely. I'm a little bit lucky because I get stories that are based on real life either real life character or a real life incident or something that's happened in near or no older history. Typically those are the roles I get. Typically all the films you mentioned okay of that see it's just a coincidence every film except Patan that you mentioned is based on real life there there real incidents that have happened airlift was a real incident but Ras cafe was based on a real incident Kashmir Kashmir files was based on real incident uh accidental prime minister is based on real person so it's like everything is based on real things I get those characters so it has more gravitas the role itself. So even if it's a small role, it has some dignity but but it doesn't really work out all the time. Sadly, most times you don't get it doesn't work out the way you planned. For instance, the film doesn't come out as well as you you thought it should come out when you read the script and sometimes it it does and that's the reward. surprises that came your way in terms of when things fell in place which are those movies and the great surprise actually is not after after the first movie Madras Cafe then after that it was it has not been much of a surprise you know everyone said you're lucky when I did Madras Cafe you know but now I may have done 90 films now and maybe 10 web series I think it'll be ridiculous to say I'm lucky now you know I've done it now five or six languages M but the thing that came my way which was real luck and completely surprising was that two directors writer directors from Australia came because they had heard about me from Atul you know who has that great theater company in Bombay you know in Lonavala they have the you know they they he recommended them and they came and they they asked me to audition for a role in an Australian play and uh I did that I got the role and I've done maybe say I told you know 25 shows in Sydney, 14 shows in Adelaide, then again 28 shows in Sydney, 28 shows in Melbourne, 20 shows in New York, nine shows in Edinburgh, 11 shows in Birmingham of this one play I've done you know I won the Helpman Award as best actor Australia for that play. Oh wow. Then I've acted in another play after that you know which was a sequel to this play. So it made me it made me like a see like no influence you know nothing you know it happened to people came from people I just don't know at all you know and u that has been a big reward in my life and big surprise but the journey like this while the world wants to believe that you know opportunities don't happen you create them I was just going through a story of uh one Mr. Pankasati himself he's a son of a farmer used to cook food in a hotel and partner came to Delhi to study uh worked in small roles in TV for gulal powder before gangs of vasipur now once you have a breakthrough like um then you are sorted right so but still they say uh roots matter more than the wings sometimes um so what is a story of people who are in important roles but still are not the main characters in Bollywood ollywood is it easy for you all what's the side pankage thripati and say manoj vajpai among male actors you know are great prime examples of people who have done really well because oft pankage is have acted with him in Tashkan files he was just like emerging that time and you know he was see these are all national school of drama actors okay and I mean what's so different in them national school of drama has produced some really fine terrific actors in India. So did FDI in the past which can produce some great actors. You know how to be a terrific actor sir. Huh? How to be a terrific actor? I think you know you should if you should know when you're acting on the stage you know that there is no difference between action and reaction. You're being observed all the time you know. So, so you invest a lot of time into the scene, the mison scene which which means you you rehearse for a very long time. Okay. And after that the play is in your control the director is not there. But in a film a director is always there you know and u to understand the idea of trajectory. If you're doing 64th scene how you should be and rather than 30 secondond scene how we should be it's a different thing and there are some actors who know this and um it may be prejudice but it is backed by fact as well. A lot of the very good actors are actually theater people. Okay. very good actor. Typically from theater they will be because in theater you have to be there being the character all the time. There's no cut and you relax you know and there's no lensing closeup and you're not seen. You're always seen when you're standing on stage. You're always in character like that. It is it teaches a discipline that you can get only from from the stage. So some of these actors know this you know how to be on screen because if it's if the lens is so close to you you know maybe just doing this is great acting which won't be noticed at all in theater. Okay. But just like if you know that there's some there is music and you know that you can imagine that somebody punches a short piano thing. Oh and then you open your eyes it gives a different reaction. They have that thing you know there's something strange about them that they never act they just behave you know that is great acting in my opinion. I won't be able to look at a piano or silence the same way again. I mean you all calculate so much everything everything you just find out you know if it's sync sound you know then then you realize that you know that they're going to use the sound that you're giving now. Okay. But if they're going to dub then you realize that like you know maybe you should not be speaking loudly at all. There's no need you know. So see it's actually greater at this distance to be talking with only so much facial expression. H m but what happens is at shooting there is so much noise and if you know it's going to be dubbed you'll be talking like this loudly you know with some effort and that is not good that's why it looks like overacting because because of noise but if you know it's being dubbed then you you talk you talk only like this now for instance because my basic training is in theater when I'm acting in a film many times I talk loudly you No, it works very well for cinema in in Hindi because Bollywood does sync sound. They isolate the sound. So it's as quiet as this, you know, while shooting or quieter than this. You can't hear that AC hum also. Okay. Everything is sync. Everything sync. Okay. They do. So in there it works. But you know if I'm acting in a south film talking in this distance is so noisy sometimes that you're speaking loudly unnecessarily. But I've seen people who are used to it who are used to this dubbing thing. They'll say you know they've not said anything even what they just mouth the dialogue. Now supposing they need to say they have to say they'll do. Oh, they'll do and they'll dub it really well with deep voice and know they'll do later. Yeah. How do you face them? Because you have I don't I I'll talk loudly. I look silly there. I'll be laughing because I'll be I'll be so stupid. So facing which I but they treat me very well. See outside Karnataka. Karnataka also some people treat me with respect, you know. Yeah. Why do you say that? We all love you. No, but generally the the the professional film industry is quite crude, you know, in their behavior. Yeah. In Karnataka, not everybody, many of them are very crude. Okay. But, uh, outside their at least they treat me very well. Okay. They pamper me a lot. If I may ask, what is treating an actor well in that standards? Like, see, I'll tell you. I acted in a movie under a big banner. Okay. Which movie is that sir? Uh I won't tell the name because I'm scared of them. That's why. Okay. Because that's how Canada industry is. Okay. Oh okay. I'm scared not in some they'll give me a role or not. If they give me a role they'll know when I tell you the story who they'll know what I'm saying. Okay. If they give me a role I'll never work under that banner also. Even if they gave me 10 lakhs per day I'll not do it. Okay. See, I'll tell you. I was acting in a film and u because I would not bring down my uh my my rate but they wanted me because the director wanted me. What they did was they did not pay me the last last chunk of money they had to give me. They did not give they were supposed to give in four installments then give the last one and the last day of shoot you know they sent people to my caravan you know to my vanity van okay who went inside that toilet who four of them came ate threw meat everywhere in it went inside and you know they emptied the water in the caravan and shat in that thing so I could not use inside it was very hot. I had to sit outside because it was so stinky. What are you saying, sir? Yeah, it's true. It's true. Not that's an extreme. Not everybody is like that. But a lot of them are very are um they don't know how to behave. See, for instance, there is no contract in a Canada film. You don't sign a contract. Then the only industry Yeah. Everybody else signs contract. We are really backward like kind of univilized industry. It is I mean uh what's the way forward like how can things get better? Is it the corporate you know because we because if you are if you're a civilized p person your what the word you give should be enough. You don't need paper. There was a Canada that was like that in cinema. the can by and large Canada is a very civilized culture. Okay. But in cinema particularly I'm talking because most of the producers don't have a they're not genuinely Connecticut as many of them. They're actually from other cultures you know. So what happens is if you're what I said to you my word is enough. You have to be of a slightly evolved dignified ethical culture you know otherwise you know if you want to be the way you are you should have contract and we'll stick to contract at least you should be here there's no guarantee of it some people are very good that thing works so if you work in a with you know with uh with the Rajkumar family people you know like say whether it was Apu or I've done two films with him. I've done two films with you know uh Shivajkumar also very civilized you know very decent you know entire culture and behavior on set will be different you know because they come from a certain kind of tradition on how to be and there are many of them who are very friendly you know like for instance if you if you if I worked a couple of times or more than a couple of times with you know Darkish a very friendly setup. It'll be very jovial, you know, and uh very respectful. I'm not saying everybody is bad, but a lot of them can be very univilized. I'm shocked because last time I met you for our karna podcast, there was not a whisk of what you would have gone through coming out in the conversation. I'm not bitter about it because I know how to avoid it. Actually, I just say no to many films. But I'm sure all of all of this becomes very uh minuscule for you after a point considering what you want. It is not min minuscule when you suffer the insult. Absolutely. Absolutely. So you should just avoid it. Avoid you should spot them from a distance. So if see let us say the director calls me of a film and says you know I want you to act in a film that is one thing but if I get a production manager to call me actually I won't listen to the role anything I'll cut it short there and say I won't do it I won't listen at all because it's disrespectful you know starting off like who the hell is the production who does he think you know my time is you know so so earlier I would get angry and say who are you why are you calling me? I would say now I don't do I'll just say no I'm not free and I'll put the phone on save your energy. So they would you'll never get that from Bollywood. How is how from Telugu or from How's it there? I I mean have you had personal interactions with Shah Ruk? I never met him ever. Akshai Kumar of course twice. I've done two films with him. Yes. Yes. This is coming from a girl from Bangalore or a woman from Bangalore. Not seen them representing all our curiosities. How how is their real side like? See Akshai Kumar is extremely friendly, very human. Okay. I mean they get angry with him for the money he demands and you know and sometimes sometimes how how casual is with acting you know but as a person I can tell you he's a He's a great guy as a person. Great guy is really friendly. It's from him that I've learned when people struggle to take he know when people mob him, he never gets angry because he's tall. He takes the phone and he places them and he takes the pictures for them. You know, he's like this extremely friendly guy, impossible to act with many times because when the shot when the camera is on behind him and he's giving lines, he'll be doing jokes to you when you're acting. You have to avoid all of that control, focus. Yeah. He'll say and he's subversive. If it's a serious role, in the middle, he'll give ask me to tell a line that is funny. I'll be scared because I'll think you know it's not correct for the film to do and then you know sometimes the mic will be on and and if the director hears once the kungara said you know don't corrupt him don't teach him he's like that you know he's very friendly John Abraham extremely I've done two films with him very very supportive very encouraging even when he's a producer he will say it's you know having people like you that make my film better. He'll say like that very very far shake like an angel I don't know you know terrific guy you know like that Mr. Bachan himself extremely civilized. What was your first interaction? What what was your curiosity meeting him being a senior personality yourself in the industry for such a long not compared to him? I met him when I was a journalist in Indian express when the buffer scandal was on and his brother also was you know was named in something he was staying at hotel Ashok I don't know what film he had come to uh shoot and we went to Nupur Basu and I she was my senior and you know both of us went to meet him and you know because I was I was a crime reporter I was also in the Indian express insight team to do investigative journalism I went with a set of questions kids and he came out of his room you know on the eighth floor or something he just came out of his room I looked up I saw his face I couldn't speak a word after that you know I just stared at him you know my childhood hero you know so I saw him when I was 15 first so from that time that was uh that was my first reaction you know when when I met him I'm 15 uh but when this time struck that this time when I met him for a film for Wazir. Uh I told him that I had met him before. He told me you know sir up uh he said I said no sir I failed in many things that I know many things. I said we worked and I have an incident about him and you'll realize why he is what he is. In that movie I accepted that only because I could act with him. I had I had two scenes with him and uh I had a yeah I had two scenes with him. Okay. And um Paran Axar was there in the film also. So the f in that first scene where I meet him my Hindi was atrocious. I told him sir my Hindi is bad. He says you're doing quite well but you should transpose and say that it'll be better. Transpose as in what words? Like you know sometimes you I'll put the adjective after the noun like the some things like that can go wrong. I'll put nahi you know in the wrong place. I should have put it later. It'll still be you'll understand what I've said but it's awkward kind of thing can happen. You know there's a syntax to the way you know. So so he would he he corrected that kind of thing. And anyway towards the end of the shoot because he had come in saying he'll leave by 8:30 and um we shot uh right through the afternoon and uh the camera went to the other side where I had three lines to speak to him. I had sat right through the opposite side and given uh lines to him. So when he has came in commercial uh cinema in Canada you know I've seen that actors don't sit. Now I don't do much commercial purely commercial cinema. I don't agree at all but you know what the actors will do is they'll give this black shell to somebody and somebody has to sit and they'll shoot. Okay. Call a suggestion shot right? Huh? The suggestion shot. For the suggestion oss you know over the shoulder you know. Okay. Yeah, suggestion is also correct. They'll do that. Uh I haveve seen one actor who had to do that and you know he got angry and he said if for such shots why do you need me and all that he said angrily okay to the to the director anyway so I thought he'll go but he sat and it was already past 9 you know although he said he had to leave at 8:30 first I muff my lines I didn't say it correctly second one I concentrated on saying the line correctly because I was tense I said the line correctly but I had not acted well but the director said okay now I was scared I thought they will say so I told him sir I want to ask you something we had talked some by then he had signed for my wife and all that it's there at home you know the autograph and you know he I said I want to ask you something and you know when he's in that character he'll talk like the character oh yeah bully said like that he said so I said you know so I said you know I know he said, "Uh, okay. But I I know you have to leave. It's already late, but I want to do one more time if you don't mind." Then he said, "Uh, sir, you should not talk to me like that. You know, you sat there and gave me lines. If you do 20 takes, it's your right. I'll sit and give you lines. Don't worry about my time." He said I don't think there is anybody like him. Wow. So what happens after the camaraderie that you all share in the set? Do you all carry that to your personal lives as well? Like are you in touch with him? I've not been in touch but I met him three times after that. Once I acted in another film called the with him all night we had to shoot together. I asked him about his theater life in Kolkata and all that you know long chat we had. He told me that you know that he really liked my uh my work in Madras Cafe. In fact, he used very complimentary words for it. And he invited me to go and watch the film uh the first screening of the the film we were in, you know, in Delhi. You come, we'll sit together and watch, he told me. But that didn't happen because his rib he had a rib fracture because of the stunt scene in theme where I fall on him. Oh, he showed me how to fall and all that and I did that, you know. He had a thing. He never mentioned it, you know. So when I heard and I called him on the phone I said I'm no I met him again because Rockline Wentes took yogurt me person called Hmon to meet him because we wanted to do a film with him. Oh yeah yeah and then they wanted to do and I was in Hindi. Oh okay he wanted to do a film because he had somebody working with him a kedigga was working with him for a long time. he wanted to give him money you know earnings from the film he wanted to give uh to that guy so he said he'll do Mr. Bachan M. So we went and you know it didn't work out for various reasons but uh we went to his house twice that time we sat spent a long time with him did discussing the script how to do it and all that and we talked a lot more then also I don't think I I have kept in touch with any of the Bombay actors I work with many actors you know I don't think I've kept kept in that I've called or kept in I promise that I'll keep in touch with uh you know with Van Irvan uh when we were doing Talwis because you know I asked him whether he can play uh MTO's role or a script that I was writing for MTO um along with Akar Patel you know the columnist uh and uh that didn't happen and you know he he and I have the same guru prasana you know our prasana is his guru also. Many for many NSD actors Prasana is their guru. Even pankage pankage actually I asked pankage tripati you know uh see he was when Tashkin files he was not so big but later uh he became when he became very big I was cast in Newton to the play the to do the role he was playing that's the only role I've got and lost many roles I've got and refused but that's the only role I got and lost you know it Newton. I loved the role so much. But you know in the last moment they had given me an advance stitch done my look test everything and in the last moment the director said he wanted a Hindi character for it. He wanted a North Indian character for it and I felt so upset you know uh because of that but they gave it in my opinion to the better actor you know so it's okay. How have you handled rejections in cinnamon? No, not with that much. I'm not bothered that much. I don't care in life. I've done I've done auditions very rare. I don't do audition. If they say there's an audition, I don't I don't bother. I won't go. I don't care what role it is. I don't go. I've done two auditions before. We'll never do again. Madras Cafe was one. Madras Cafe I did and got. Yes. In between I've done two audition. No, I've done an audition before Madras Cafe. I've done an audition later after Madras Cafe. I've never done an audition after that. I'll never do any reason for that. I don't want to I don't want to be tried. There's a body of work. You like it to take me. Don't take me. I'm cool not to act ever again. I'm very okay with it. So, we were talking about Yes. vision for life. What did you vision your life to be? envision up to a point I'm not sure whether I had any great vision you know because uh I had uh my father uh asked me to learn uh typing because I can get a job that was his impression about me when my my mother asked my we couldn't go enter my father's room when My mother took an application form for me to write my 10th standard exam. M he I could hear the conversation. I had to stand outside when my mother went for his signature and I could hear my father saying and my my mother said yes. And he said in Canada of course you should uh you should tell him that uh we will only attempt it once and if he doesn't pass he'll have to uh leave leave studies and find a job. My mother told him that you know I I was like a topper in in not close to top let's say I never got first rank but I was I got I would get third fifth sixth like that rank I would get in class. She told him that you know class you know this is how we was talking. So let us say he had low very low expectations you know from me you know. Mhm. But to give him the benefit of doubt, I don't think he believed in education as well. So I don't know whether it was low expectations whether in his in his head he imagined a different path for me that was you know that was like you know I'll like him I'll not care about studies I'll go to work I'll grow working you know it's like that's how we thought maybe uh I don't think any of my friends thought I'll do well you know and uh the only person I can remember kind of who consistently had a very high opinion about me was my mother's elder brother you know Chintamani my uncle Chintamani always thought very highly of me and he thought I'll do very well that I'll become a scientist you know or a great financial expert or something like that he could imagine but almost nobody else did I think so and I didn't have any high expectations about myself as well but I was off and on for a very long time the captain of the cricket team in my locality, you know, the captain of the hockey team in my locality. Although I was not a good player myself, I was the captain. You knew how to manage people from the beginning. Maybe, maybe. Yeah, I had I always had, you know, I I did many of the things. Whatever initiatives they took, I would be heading it like that. It was even if I was younger to many of them. Okay. So, I think I didn't have that. I thought I will join the merchant navy and run away abroad. I I dreamt of that because I had read this treasure island this stoway you know who sits and goes you know I used to dream of that and I joined the Navy section of NCC when I was in national high school but you know I was a weak kid and um although I finished I was in NCC you know I never became a you know petty officer or anything you know and so on so I didn't I didn't think I had ambition for a very long time till I came to second PU. Then I was with a bunch of really smart people in national college like you know who could be toppers of the state like that kind of people I knew. So I got influenced by them and I studied somewhat and I got a merit seat in engineering. Then I thought I'll become a great inventor, make some great you know mechanics, engineering in you know that that will help India kind of thing. I thought none of that happened and uh without my knowledge theater got hold of me and I was acting sometimes in college plays but I was mostly directing. I was doing lighting. I began to do lighting for very major plays even when I was in college. Mhm. And uh what is cons what has been consistent in my life so far has been you know theater. But honestly the ambition that took root at some point of time maybe when I was doing theater because I used to read quite a lot then I would spend I would take a human carrier and go to city central library during summer holidays and sit there till they sent me out. I would read books you know clearly. Yeah. So my great ambition which I've never done justice to was to become a writer and at least now I think I should. You have make an effort. You have a blueprint already. Yeah. So enjoyed your life. I mean what part of your life so far is your favorite? Can we ask such questions? I don't know. I never thought you know I will get into this middle class thing of loving family and all that. I had a clear idea. I remember I told my wife that I'll never be a good husband. You know I was a love marriage but I told her that I will never be a good husband. Why? But I'll always be a good lover. I told her you know once you know and that was my idea of of marriage but now I my idea of family has changed completely. I sincerely believe that if you break down the if the family system breaks down in India it'll be the end of India. India will break break up because you cannot outsource you know care of the elderly care of uh you know children care of the you know differently aabled to state institutions because you know India is a poor country and because of our population our per capita income will always be low we'll never be great we'll never be great in that in that regard but as a humane caring society we could we can continue to be great if you preserve the values of community living and family is the smallest unit of community you know so in a village instead of protecting privacy you know you'll have to think of being a better person right so I think the village is a good model and the village model works your family is a good model and the village model should not be the Gandhian model of village the gandhi Indian model of village is you know they will stay the way they are all the cast system everything intact you know so the carpenter and the farmer are mutually dependent kind of thing this interdependency model that Gandhi had I think it's it may not you know panditu disagree with with Gandhi even then visheshara disagreed with Gandhi now it's entirely it non-applicable. I agree with the Ambedkar idea that you know the that Dalits can be freed of cast only if they come to the cities and drop their shed their identity here. Otherwise, even if you gra if you are a if you're the village barber's son, even if you get a Harvard PhD, they'll still call you the village barber's son. That's how the cast system is in India. So, I agree with you know they celebrated huh and they celebrated right? I don't know whether they celebrate it but they will still refer to him by cast and you know that may not they may not be happy with that. So I don't mean that idea of the village I mean the idea of the village where the village functions in such a way that if there's a disabled person the village will not think of committing that person to some institution. No in the in a family if there's a disabled person the village looks after that person. Poor families in the past even in cities we have been like that we don't send away somebody who's disabled you know to an institution right if some child is you know is a duffer child you know in the past village children who failed exams didn't commit suicide you know because you didn't make that a big deal what I'm saying is that there is a Marxist model of you know that that Kalmak said you know from each according to his ability to each according to his needs You know which is how you know I feel that is a model. It was discriminatory largely but it was full of empathy. It had compassion at its root you know and that kind of interdependency I'm saying that the village taught. So even in the cities it's not for the government government to be lifting garbage 3 or 4 thousand tons of garbage every day from the city. We should not litter the city. It you should treat the city as your home and just like you don't litter your home if you're a good family. You should not litter you know the your your city. That's what the city should be a community. That's how I mean the model should come from our villages and from old way of living. This has be become my idea of life now. You know this this idea that we should all look after each other not by categories individually we should look after each other. It should not make categories of minorities you know dalits darkkinned people and nonsense it is you know whoever needs it should get it individually is how you should see I think not at this point that I know nobody agrees with me I think but that is what I think should be the model of caring this idea of positive discrimination which is what reservation is should be this that you see the person you know and you decide there is this idea of you know when Infosys was hiring there was there's the the lady in charge he raandhan I believe if she's if she looked at the background of a kid he had to go let's say was an employee but he had to go to be there you know for holidays and it parents were there would be that much extra incremental thing oh yeah in the in their in the salary so that that thing could be fulfilled I think that kind of giving attention should be the core of caring you know that it is Yeah, it addresses an individual. It does not first make category and then address. Yeah, you're a notion and I think we've just kind of got a couple of drops today on the show and thank you so much for your time sir because we are in crunch of time here. No, thank you Rashmi and you know I'm glad you're doing something in English because you deserve to go national. You know I think you will be known and you know there is no shame in going national. You know you don't lose any identity by speaking in English. It's just a language of communications. It's the ideas that you get to discuss that's important. Absolutely. and the kind of humans that we get to introduce to the bigger world the canvas and you have you have the skill and you should do it and I hope you succeed a lot in I hope we'll have a chance to meet again and I hope if there are issues big issues that are current that you would like to discuss I would like to be there and I'll gladly comment looking forward to host you again lastly kindly nominate three guests that you would like to see on the seat I think you should get you know mohas spy to come and talk you know amazing yes and he should you should get him to talk uh you know in English about why he thinks Karnataka can become a trillion dollar economy all right I think he's a very interesting person and I think you should talk to him you met him I'm I'm sure I know him he's a very he's a close friend I mean I'm I I really admire him you know I think you should get him to talk Uh and I think you should you should talk to my guru prasana you know because and you should get him to talk in English and you know he can talk in a little bit in Hindi also if he wants but he should talk in English and he should you should ask him why from being India's greatest you should start with that question why from being India's greatest theater director He's ventured out to do so many other things. Why has he done that? You should ask him. Why has he branched out? Uh he'll be he'll be a great he'll be he'll be a genuine ocean of ideas and knowledge. That's the second person I'll do. And and I think the third person you should talk to should be, you know, somebody I know many women who've done really well in business and I think it's worth talking to them. I think you should talk to Rohindi Nilkani in Canada but she can talk in Canada as well but you should see if she will talk in Canada and English on the show. Uh because you know I think Rohini is a person who has done things very quietly. She's done a lot in the field of education. Mhm. She has she has ideas of how India can be a better place you know and she will do it from a perspective of what she calls um circar uh circar samaj and bazar that means government society and business you know all three you need and she sees she triangulates them and she talks it may be very interesting to get tell to talk to your show, talk on your show. Amazing suggestion. While I sign this for you, uh any book that you would like to suggest for our audience to to start exploring? A must readad. I think you know there is an old book and it's a small volume. They should read this book called Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl. Yeah. The the the Nazi survivor. Survivor Holocaust survivor. Yeah. Yes. Thank you Rashmi. Yes sir. Praar amazing to host you and until next time keep shining. I don't know what to write in a hurry. I'm like all tense right now. This is a book by Robin Sharma the the wealth money can't buy. Uh for all the wealth that you've already accumulated through these many years. This is for you sir. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you. This episode was powered by Polar Bear the ice cream Sunday zone. All you Mango fans, now that the Mango Mania seasonal special is on, wondering which outlet to go? They have 160 outlets to choose from, turn the maps on and search for your nearest polar bear outlet. What a conversation, isn't it? I kind of wonder at times what we know is probably what we've been shown or probably what we have just tried to look at. there is still a notion which is unknown right um also after having such a wonderful deep converation about so many things which has been part of his life's journey all that I can say is don't put yourself in a box because your worth to be explored in different angles so at times if you're feeling stuck what can you do you can look for new opportunities if opportunity isn't coming to you can always create one that's my wallpaper. Don't wait for an opportunity create. So, happy creating. Lastly, would also like to see your recommendations in the comment section as to whom you would like to see in the hot seat. Until next time, this is your RJ Rapper Rashmi signing out of another deep interesting episode with one and only Mr. Praash Badi. Thank you.
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