Everything Women Get Wrong About Cancer! | Apollo Doctors x Shaili Chopra
Author Name:SheThePeople TV
Youtube Channel Url:https://www.youtube.com/@shethepeople.tv
Youtube Video URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWpqPBpvRgY
Title: Everything Women Get Wrong About Cancer! | Apollo Doctors x Shaili Chopra
Author Name: SheThePeople TV
Description: Women's cancer is one of the most talked about health concerns today, but how much do we actually know about it?
In this special episode of The Shaili Chopra Show, Shaili Chopra sits down with two of India's leading cancer specialists, Dr. Geeta Kadayaprath and Dr. Rupinder Sekhon from Apollo Athenaa Women's Cancer Centre, to answer the biggest questions women and families have about breast cancer, gynecological cancers, prevention, diagnosis, treatment, fertility, menopause and survivorship.
From busting myths around hereditary cancer to explaining why younger women are increasingly being diagnosed, this conversation is a complete masterclass on women's cancer awareness. The doctors also explain how modern cancer treatment has evolved, why early detection saves lives, how fertility can often be preserved, and why cancer is no longer the diagnosis it once was.
Whether you're in your 20s, 30s, 40s or beyond, this episode could help you recognize warning signs, understand screening guidelines, and make informed decisions for yourself and your loved ones.
What you'll learn in this episode:
• Why breast cancer cases are rising among younger women
• The biggest myths around breast cancer
• Symptoms every woman should never ignore
• Breast self-examination explained
• Breast cancer screening and mammograms
• Cervical cancer prevention and HPV vaccination
• Fertility preservation during cancer treatment
• Menopause and cancer treatment
• Why cancer treatment today is completely different from before
• The importance of multidisciplinary cancer care
• How technology and AI are changing cancer treatment
• Preventive health habits every woman should adopt today
If this conversation helps you, share it with every woman in your family.
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Precap - What’s in store this episode!
01:44 - Introduction
02:11 - Why are breast cancer cases increasing?
04:09 - Lifestyle vs Genetics: What Really Causes Cancer?
06:26 - Can Breast Cancer Actually Be Prevented?
08:19 - Breast Self-Examination & Screening Explained
10:07 - Breast Awareness During Pregnancy & Breastfeeding
10:59 - Why Women Ignore Preventive Health Checks
14:55 - Inside Apollo Athenaa Women's Cancer Centre
17:04 - Life After Cancer: Why Quality of Life Matters
18:05 - Fertility Preservation During Cancer Treatment
20:19 - Menopause, Hormones & Women's Health
22:20 - Surgical Menopause & Its Emotional Impact
26:26 - Why Empathy Is Essential in Cancer Care
33:03 - Prevention, HPV Vaccine & Cancer Screening
36:14 - When Should You See a Specialist?
38:49 - Breast Cancer Symptoms Every Woman Should Know
41:19 - Gynecological Cancer Symptoms You Should Never Ignore
43:04 - Why Cancer Treatment Needs Multiple Specialists
44:20 - AI & Technology in Modern Cancer Treatment
48:43 - How Technology Is Improving Breast Cancer Surgery
50:22 - Personalized Cancer Treatment Is the Future
51:17 - The One Health Habit Every Woman Should Adopt
53:51 - Support Groups & Healing After Cancer
56:01 - How Apollo Athenaa Is Changing Women's Cancer Care
Dr. Geeta Kadayaprath is a leading Breast Surgical Oncologist and Oncoplastic Breast Surgeon at Apollo Athenaa Women's Cancer Centre. With extensive experience in breast conservation surgery, oncoplastic reconstruction and comprehensive breast cancer care, she is dedicated to combining advanced surgical techniques with compassionate, patient-centered treatment.
Dr. Rupinder Sekhon is the Principal Lead for Gynecologic Surgical Oncology at Apollo Athenaa Women's Cancer Centre. She specializes in the treatment of gynecological cancers while focusing on fertility preservation, minimally invasive surgery, survivorship and holistic care for women across every stage of life.
Apollo Athenaa Women's Cancer Centre is a dedicated center focused exclusively on women's cancers, offering comprehensive care for breast and gynecological cancers. The centre brings together surgical oncologists, medical oncologists, radiation oncologists, genetic counselors, fertility specialists, psychologists, physiotherapists and rehabilitation experts to deliver truly multidisciplinary care. Beyond treatment, Apollo Athenaa emphasizes prevention, early detection, survivorship, emotional well-being and personalized support, helping women navigate every stage of their cancer journey with confidence and dignity.
If this conversation inspired you, don't forget to Like, Comment, Share, and Subscribe to SheThePeople for more conversations with women who are breaking barriers and redefining success.
Connect with SheThePeople:
Website: https://www.shethepeople.tv/
IG: / shethepeopletv
Twitter: / shethepeople
LinkedIn: / shethepeople
Audio Courtesy:
Blue Sizzle - Madness Paranoia by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 licence. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Transcript:
(00:00) Of all the cancers [music] only 10% are actually familiar or genetic. 90% are actually incidental. We have so many [music] of these myths that if one person in the family has the cancer everybody else is going to have said that >> are you saying that young women should get themselves scan? >> No no scan.
(00:24) We have treatment wherein we can treat the cancer without taking out the uterus at all and she can have a child. For instance, she has say endometrial cancer. Pregnancy is actually a treatment for that. Cancer is a hyper hormonal state. There is too much of the hormone in the body especially estrogen and it is this estrogen which is causing these cancers.
(00:46) >> You remove the ovaries and be saying that you're going to live long. She can't start fracturing at the age of 55 because her bones are going to go for a because estrogen is a bone friendly hormone. >> One single shot of prevents against a cervical cancer. Many times it may go undetected because you went to the wrong physician or wrong specialist.
(01:07) [gasps] How does one figure this out? The most dangerous ones are those which are so silent and 70% of them get diagnosed at the third stage. Earlier you know if there are two lumps or three lumps in the breast the invariable conclusion would be that this patient has to have a mastctomy meaning a removal of the breast but now with the support of I'm able to conserve a lot more breast than I used to be earlier.
(01:33) What are the symptoms that women should watch out for? Hello and welcome. You're with us on the Shelli Chopra show and I've got two very special guests and a very important conversation women health and prevention. With us is Dr. Gita Kardraat, principal lead breast surgical oncology and encoplasty surgery. >> Thank you. >> And Dr.
(02:04) Rupindra Seikko, principal lead Gynac surgical oncology. >> Thank you. >> Both of you are literally doing the work of gods. you know women, breast cancer, efforts towards prevention and of course finding the cure so one can bring back life for people who suffer through cancer. This is something that seems to have become a common place problem.
(02:30) women of my age and sometimes even earlier in their 30s uh you know are diagnosed with breast cancer just want to spend a little bit of time understanding what is happening and why is it happening in our worlds so much so today maybe I'll start with you Dr. in there. >> So there are several reasons for this. The most important being early detection and also an increasing consciousness uh about the health amongst women and so much of advertising and uh so much of stress on women well-being presently which was never there before. M so when
(03:15) we are doing all of all that we are telling ladies to look out for lump breast lumps and we are telling the elderly ladies don't ignore any secretions from the breast which you might think oh that's that's common place and all of all that and also we have doctors available close at hand who are able to address all these problems so that is the reason why you know we are actually encountering more of breast cancer >> also Longevity of life is another very big factor.
(03:46) So we have women living much longer than they used to. 50s used to be old age like nothing on earth whereas 60s is the new 40s these days you know so we here. So all these factors they contribute to I would say detecting more of breast cancer rather than that the incidence is actually increasing which it really is also >> right Dr.
(04:10) Clearly the intent of awareness is a very positive uh effort but the fact is that something is leading to widespread um you know sort of expanding of this disease among women. How do you view the onus of this? Is it lifestyle? Um is it hereditary? Is it you know how would women sort of figure why it's happening today? So like you said it's a combination of things you know it's a lifestyle disease for sure.
(04:44) So it's a complex interplay between lifestyle environment and genetics. So all these things put together does you know raise the numbers that we are seeing and of course the alarming thing is like you said we seeing them earlier. So we used to the even now you know the majority of breast cancers happen in the 50 to 70 age group. >> Yeah.
(05:06) But what is alarming in our country and I'm saying that this is happening in our country which is that under 40 the incidence of breast cancer is 15 to 20%. So 15 to 20% of breast cancers are happening in that age group >> under 40. >> Under 40. >> Wow. >> So there are a lot of wrongs that we're doing which we want don't want to look in the eye but the fact is you know you look at air, water, food whatever uh there is a certain degree of pollution to it.
(05:36) uh we may think that we are eating right but that's not necessarily the truth. >> Uh we may be eating right but we do not know the source of the food that is on our plate. >> Yeah. >> Um the amount of fertilizers or the pesticides that go into it. And of course there is a lot about the crops that are being produced which um may not be the same as what we used to use several years earlier.
(06:00) M >> and I somehow think you know there has been an escalation since plastic came into our lives too. Before the '90s there was no plastic in the country and if you look at the you know the rise in the incidence of all kinds of cancers you would see that there is a a definite uh you know swing in the numbers since but I'm not saying that is the only cause but there is a lot that is not right about the way we do things.
(06:26) >> So Dr. Sego, it seems like the factors at play are a lot not in our hands. Yet there is always talk of prevention. You know, there are tests uh and there can be scanning but factors seem to be very fundamental to human behavior that we can't sort of always track. Like we talked about water, air, plastic.
(06:52) Most of the time people don't even know they're exposed to some of these impurities. um consistently. So do you think we're asking too much of the person when one looks at uh some of these extraneous factors? So let me address your first statement first. Of all the cancers only 10% are actually familiar or genetic.
(07:16) >> 90% are actually incidental. >> I see. So we have so many of these myths circulating that if one person in the family has the cancer so everybody else is going to have. Having said that definitely for those who have have cancer in the family they need to be more vigilant. They need to be more strict in the surveillance and they need to see a doctor definitely more often than those who do not have cancer.
(07:43) as to addressing all the other non-modifiable factors what we call like you said you know we cannot modify the plastic we cannot modify the water we don't even know what it is all about no we really don't have uh much in our hands but the modifiable factors definitely we see an increasing incidence of alcohol intake of smoking and of substance abuse amongst women as com as compared to what it used to be before so all these definitely add on to all kinds of sicknesses, not only cancers and not only breast cancer, but everything else.
(08:20) >> So what does prevention really look like other than scanning? >> So you know, it's a tough question to answer. >> So I'm saying that, you know, we're seeing younger cancers, but what do we have for young women? We don't. M >> so if I were to say in in in terms of breast cancer you would say mamogram clinical breast examination breast self- examination to create awareness about the breast but what do we have for younger women you know there's really nothing >> and um if you were to ask a 25year-old are you examining your breast you know
(08:50) they should look at me strangely and say are you right in your head you know why do you want me to do that but the fact is you know there is no age to being breast aware but a lot of times that age group does not respond to the situation like like a 40 year old or a 45year-old would. >> Yeah. >> So there is a certain hesitancy to kind of uh start looking at yourself.
(09:14) >> Are you saying that young women should get themselves scanned? Is that even scanned? >> No. No, not scanned. Just be aware of their own breasts >> which is breast self-examination. It is not a screening tool. Got it. >> But it is a method to be aware of yourself. A lot of women are loath to touch their breasts.
(09:31) >> Uh it familiarity with the breast is what is going to allow you to pick up something new that happens in the background of what you've been feeling all this while. So >> um that is one of those things. Um but in the 20 to 40 age group, we really don't have anything. Um ultrasound is not a screening tool.
(09:50) But having said that, if there is a woman who's got a very strong family history or even carries a genetic mutation, there you may ask uh that lady to have an MRI of the breast to screen herself along with mamograms but not otherwise. >> Got it. >> Yeah. And if I may say adding to what uh Dr.
(10:12) Gita very nicely said amongst young women, >> we need to really educate our lactating population. So there a lot of young women who are lactating they think that a breast lump or this thing it is probably just a breast absis or maybe it's just a breast [clears throat] encodment and uh not only would they not address it themselves even their uh rest of the family members say the mother the mother-in-law or whosoever is in the house might just dismiss it as [clears throat] just a factor of just a function of lactation.
(10:43) True >> and it might actually be something much more sinister. So uh like what Dr. Gita said very rightly, we need to familiarize ourselves with our body ourselves more so for the lactating mother. >> I think that's a really good point. Uh before I spend some time on the current work you're doing, I want to ask both of you to give a bit of piece of advice on why preventative health as a whole has been very to a very high degree ignored by women in particular.
(11:20) I see so many men looking for preventive checks, preventive uh supplements, preventive something or the other. they on top of their preventive game compared with women. So maybe you can go first and I'll ask her. >> So you have to understand that women play a lot several roles during the day. So I keep saying that you know you have if I were to make a priority list uh on the top of it would be children then husband then in-laws then job then uh shopping then this and that and the other and probably 10 would sit the woman. M
(11:49) >> so by the time the priority number 10 comes it is already 11 in the night and you're ready to crash and start another day. So a lot of times we do ignore uh and and we we do not want to know. That's also another thing. I don't want to know. I'm good. I don't feel anything. So why should I be going for a health check? So many times women who have been to health checks and have found something in the breast or you know something very innocuous micro calcifications which are the earliest that you can catch cancer they say why
(12:19) the hell did I go for the health check you know I should not have gone. So that's uh that's the way uh some women look at that not realizing that by catching that cancer that early there is a 98 to 100% chance that she's as good as new. >> Wow. >> But healthy women just don't go. There have been times when I've been trying to create do these awareness lectures and there have been four or five women or maybe even 10 women of which five will quickly slip away saying we don't want to hear this.
(12:52) >> Wow. So you know they don't want to this is bad news and I don't want to hear something which is negative. >> So if you perceive this as negative not realizing that it is an investment for the future then you'll keep running away from preventive health checks which I think needs to catch speed in our country.
(13:10) >> Yeah. So one is the denial Dr. Seiko. The other is also perhaps for years our medical system has looked at women as just producers of good news and perhaps not someone who was selfaware. I like the term breast aware both of you were using. Just kind of wondering if you feel or see the psyche shift. >> [snorts] >> So straight away can I disagree with you because >> absolutely [laughter] I love that >> because I don't think it's very fair to blame the medical system for uh the women being you know put on um uh say a
(13:50) lesser shelf as far as uh um medical checks are concerned it is they themselves like if I can take the cue from Dr. Gita there is so much of denial even for small diseases, small things and also so much more for a larger thing. What are the neighbors going to say if they get to know that I have cervical cancer? >> What is the whole neighborhood going to say? But if the guy is sick or something, everybody will come and ask how can I help? See, so this our society is like that.
(14:23) We all think like that. We all say like that. Don't tell anyone. Don't tell anyone. Tell anyone that the mom is sick. Let her be. Doesn't matter. But on the flip side, I'm so glad to hear that, you know, all these health checks are now coming in vogue. >> And those health checks include the wife, the daughter, the mother, and the mother-in-law. Excellent.
(14:50) >> So, we really hope to see better days. >> Yeah. I share your optimism. [laughter] uh let's talk about why Apollo Athena came to be. Of course you know we know that there's an increase in the total number of cancers being detected particularly breast cancer but why do you feel that there is um today need for a center that's very vertically deep and specific to this uh you know requirement.
(15:22) uh do you see people coming there often to get their checks done? You know, how is it changing the mindset of your patients today? So I think we have to build that story. So that is what Apollo Athena is all about. We want to start those conversations which otherwise don't happen. M >> so in a crowded hospital where everybody is walking past you that overwhelming sense of not being heard is is quite there you know it's it is uh what kind of overwhelms women they just don't come out with their problems so I think Athena is is a space created with that
(15:59) in mind that is where we hope that she's able to express herself and we're seeing that uh we know that um See, it's about the woman. It is about that individual. A lot of times you will see the conversations in hospitals about treating disease. >> So here you're talking about treating an individual whose needs are a lot of times very different from uh the entire you know if you put all the population together. She wants the privacy.
(16:29) She wants the dignity. She wants the space whether she can express herself. She wants to be taken care of by women who empathize with her. So that is what Athena is all about. And Athena is uh is a space which just does not talk about just treatment. There is so much happening before and after >> and after cancer is what is going to put you back into society as that individual who's confident and just as good as anybody else who's never had cancer.
(17:01) So uh cancer cannot be that deterrent. Cancer cannot be confidencebreaking. So all those issues that happen during treatment and after treatment need to be addressed and we at Athena want that story to unfold. We want to take care of her psychological issues her so you know there is a lot of issues like menopause which I'm sure Dr.
(17:25) Seiko will be able to tell you how women find it so tough to deal with menopausal symptoms, but we're not talking about it. Yes, >> she's just dealing with it and she starts believing that's the new normal. >> She doesn't have to deal with it. >> She needs to be taken care of and there are ways to take care of it. There are experts to take care of it.
(17:41) If there is a young woman um desirous of being a mother, we should be able to offer that solution and say, "Look, it is possible to preserve your fertility for future. We want to create a regret-free life for every woman because now women are living longer because the treatments have improved.
(17:59) So what have we done to make their lives better? So it is always quality over quantity. >> So that is what it Dr. Sego. Um I want to talk to you about both fertility and menopause both uh you know at the other ends of the spectrum and where and how um do you sort of create that that belief uh at your organization about preserving that experience on both ends because uh I imagine that a woman who is entered permenopause and menopause and finds herself with other complications uh oncological compos uh issues. She's probably just got a double
(18:39) whammy she didn't plan for at all. It's so hard to already deal with uh menopause symptoms and then to have something that's clinically extremely uh you know at one extreme. Just love to know your thoughts uh as a gynecologist as well. So for each and every woman woman whoseever she might be fertility is so so important because for the simple reason that fertility defines them.
(19:04) Menopause does not define her but fertility defines her. So if there is anything which is compromising that straight away you find her so much so depressed and you find her looking around and trying to hide herself and trying to negate all of all that. No, here we address women with cancer and yet try to p to preserve their fertility which is so important whether it is an endometal cancer say that is a uterine cancer and where they don't have any children at all.
(19:39) You know we have treatment wherein we can treat the cancer without taking out the uterus at all. No, it is purely a medical treatment and she can have a child and we can explain to her that for instance she has say endometrial cancer I'm just giving endometroid cancer I'm just giving you an example pregnancy is actually a treatment for that >> wow >> and we handhold her till she reaches there and there is so much of joy in seeing her and for us in seeing her achieving a baby having a baby you know and all that
(20:18) is so so wonderful and as far as menopause is concerned we try to explain to them that there's it's I mean it's not like a setting sun >> absolutely not that's exactly how women take it >> so that's what >> which is why the battle with menopause is often >> yes >> how do I look younger how do I manage how do I preserve myself you know that that battle just seems a bit futile because it's just coming it's not going to stop and >> so all your nutitions and your beauty products are actually [laughter] they are actually you know having a ball
(20:58) on all of all this because they all feel like this that menopause oh my god there's the end of life it's not only the your um mutitionians and the beauty products is the men >> who attribute everything oh today you're nasty or today you are in a temple you're getting menopausal it's because of your menopause they keep attributing all these things So we teach the women the police turned around and said same turned around and say same to you.
(21:22) You are talking to me like this [laughter] probably because you are there too. So you know I mean uh that's in a lighter vein. >> No no [laughter] important to be taken seriously nonetheless. >> Absolutely. >> Yes. But we do explain to them that when there is menopause these are the things that you now need to look after.
(21:41) You need to look after your cardiac health. You need to look after your bone health. And you need to be aware that menopause is one whole year without periods. >> Anything which is less than that is not really menopause. And having said that, if you have any kind of a bleed or any kind of a discharge which is unsavory after 1 year of not having bled, please address it immediately ASAP.
(22:08) >> Okay. So that might be a harbinger of something uh sinister and u not necessarily a cancer maybe a precancer or maybe something but definitely needs to be looked at needs to be looked at important I also want to ask you this for a lot of women who uh have to undergo forced menopause because of cancer itself right so if you could just talk a little bit about that because now as we heard this has been happening to women in their 30s So what exactly happens uh if somebody gets cancer and then they're on their journey to
(22:43) menopause or whatever it the estrogen has to be massively controlled. So this has several aspects. >> Yeah. >> The most important and the most um um I would say something which strikes them uh straight away is what is termed as a surgical menopause. >> Yes. So surgical menopause would mean that through surgery we take away the uterus as well as the ovaries and that is what produces maximum amount of menopausal symptoms in the young lady and that is where we have to address her maximum and we have to you know kind of
(23:18) handhold her and medicate her depending on for what the uterus and the ovaries have been removed. Yeah, >> this might be done sometimes for a non-cancerous condition like for instance endometriosis or it might be done for some kind of cancer for inance ovarian cancer or a uterine cancer. So if it is cancer we have to remember that cancer is a hyper hormonal state that means there is too much of the hormone in the body >> especially estrogen and it is this estrogen which is causing these cancers.
(23:54) So once you explain to her that you're well rided of a malady she will half the symptoms will go away there only. So it's very important to talk it's very important to explain to her that what has happened to you and if that is not the case you have to explain to them that bone health is so much dependent on activities.
(24:14) >> Yeah. >> Please join a gym, please join dancing classes. Please walk around, laugh around, anything to make you feel happy. And you will find that most of these symptoms they just disappear. >> Such a good point. But but for younger women I also think you know especially with breast cancer you know a lot of people are very trigger happy and want to remove everybody's ovaries >> especially in a hormone sensitive tumor.
(24:37) >> So I'm kind of not a big fan of that because you know there's a 35year-old you remove the ovaries >> and we saying that you're going to live long >> but she can't start fracturing at the age of 55. she's doomed because her bones are going to go for a to because it is a bone friendly hormone whatever said and done estrogen is a bone friendly hormone.
(24:57) True >> but having said that uh just as Dr. Seek said you know there are times that it is inevitable. We just have to handhold them through the process. It can be quite devastating actually because you know suddenly you realize that you know u a 35year-old has got all the hormones right there you know just the way it should be makes you feel so good.
(25:16) >> The feminine bit of it is all about those hormones and the moment you take them away suddenly >> it can have a terrible terrible impact on the psyche of the patient. >> Yeah. You know how it is like I had one patient yesterday nothing is that uterus is doing nothing absolutely nothing there is no menstruation she's a youngster the ovaries have already been taken away for a breast cancer like Dr.
(25:40) Gita said and yet she says I'm so happy I have a uterus. Okay. Psychological. >> See, there's so much of psychological impact with that that I have something which defines my femininity whether it is doing something over there or not. Till her husband asked that I mean doctor can you please explain to me now that her uterus is there what is its function? I just had to tell him that it is essentially childbearing which is done away with but no it is uh you know something that uh she would really like to have and I do not want to duplicate
(26:14) it on you. >> Yeah. >> If you were to lose something just like that and which defines your masculinity. So I don't think you should really question her. If she wants to keep her you just let her. You know, um I was going to ask you both use the term handholding, but I am I am thinking even just talking to the two of you, I feel so seen.
(26:39) The two of you are so um you're bringing science to people's regular lives in a way that they totally get it with a lot of empathy. Is this something that's coming because of the way you both have been trained or is it also an important approach at where you're working today that empathy has to go beyond just disease-led empathy? I mean you both are literally talking to a modern woman like a modern woman would like to be seen and heard.
(27:07) >> So I think that is central to our existence. >> Yeah. this one. I think you know science is in its place and I think we all uh you know kind of [clears throat] >> uh try to deliver the science but science has no meaning if you don't >> uh get it across to the person sitting across the table to you in the manner that she wants to be heard.
(27:24) >> Yeah. >> Um see I can just be very curt and you know do things the way it is you know just throw some statistics here there some numbers. How does it affect her? You know what is what have I given to her? Nothing. >> But Dr. Gita this is the this is the blueprint that Indian women have been fed on you know what I mean they've had people who don't even bother to look beyond a specific uh issue of the body and here you are connecting all the dots for them >> you will not realize that you know a lot of times the conversation is not just
(27:59) about the disease it is about that individual you're talking about how is her life situation what is her social background there's so many who are you know single mothers. There could be women who are struggling with children who are special. So you know what what best can you do? You can only make the impact of the blow that they have received in the form of cancer lesser.
(28:23) >> Yeah. >> I think that is I think that is quite a large part of our jobs. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And you want to make each visit for her pleasant a memory so she knows that yes you know I went there but then that that's all right. I've got cancer but that's fine. Somebody over there is bothered.
(28:40) Someone over there is going to look after me. It's so important whether we are able to do something or no, whether she's able to come back to us or no for whatever reason. Sometimes it is sheer just economics. >> That's all right. But you know she should not go away feeling lesser than what she is. That is so important.
(28:56) >> Yes. >> So many times we've had such encounters also where the patient would come to you but is not able to stay with you for various reasons like Dr. secu said >> but then they come back after they've been through just to say that you know that little thing that you know you would not even have realized that you said something to her which kind of reassured her >> but I think those random conversations are very very important.
(29:19) Yeah, something simple like we know in our mind that's a big question mark but doesn't matter it's not important to tell her just that and then they come back to you saying that that time you said this thing you don't even remember what you said >> but you know you realize what is the impact of all of all that so I think it's very very important to be first of all humane and kind >> yeah no >> and a large part of our story >> especially kind >> and a large part of our story is hope >> if we are not able to transfer hope into the hearts of individuals who are
(29:51) fighting this biggest battle of their life. I don't think we've done uh enough. So just want to ask one more thing before I shift gears is as women who grew in a very different generation of how doctors were trained uh where I don't think all the doctors of at least your uh generation I've heard them say that we were taught empathy right is this something that you are is it is it your effort to give back or fix the system just curious because even now they say that doctors are hardly taught talked about women you
(30:27) know when they are training I can see Dr. >> [laughter] >> So we are not taught I don't think we are taught you know now there's a lot of talk about you know soft skills [laughter] I don't know I somehow sometimes wonder soft skills but of course you can you can train yourself not saying you cannot but our generation it was not part of our curriculum >> but now there is a lot of emphasis on it being part of the curriculum >> I I just want to disagree with that again see how I was taught.
(31:02) Um, my teachers always told me that you just be kind. Literally these words. And my mother, she was a maths teacher, she told me, she said after I graduated, she told me, she says, you will have lots of patients coming to you. Many of them you cannot cure. You cannot cure everyone.
(31:26) But just remember to be kind to them. you know they they come to you with a lot of hope. So and even my teachers and all they taught us this this is something I find a little lacking in youngsters of today. So that's why you have AI and you have soft skills and you have this that and the other you know to help them out. I don't think that we should go away with this message that our generation was not taught to be.
(31:50) It is I I don't see so when I say taught >> so there is no structure to that teaching even you know so when you say soft skills teaching so there is a lot of structure a b c d so there was no structure to what we were >> I would not say I would not say taught it is like something that you embibe from the environment [clears throat] that you grow up in so there are you know there are parents who would be telling you >> you know you have to be like kind >> and then you know there are teachers you would who would lead by example >> you would say oh yeah this is this is
(32:17) the way to be And then you think huh this is the way I also want to be. You could be you know everybody's a rebel. >> I I would think that we we were you know that at some point in life you think you're very idealistic but you don't really know the steps to reach uh that idealistic uh goal and but then yeah but then there are these mentors who kind of >> try and shape you.
(32:41) So I keep always keep comparing myself to a lump of uh you know clay >> which is molded you know. So we are all molded but then you know you have to be fortunate also to get those kind of mentors. Um so that is >> and now you both are part of an organization where you're carrying that brand of kindness. I love the idea of sisterhood coming together with science and you both really do embody that.
(33:03) >> Um I want to talk a little more about what we started earlier mo moving from reactive to preventive. Uh as a country we wait till the last minute. As women, we wait to the last of last minutes before we dial up and go. What does preventative look like when it comes to cancer? Maybe you can talk a little bit about even the gynecological cancers and breast cancer both.
(33:32) So when we talk about prevention, we are first of all looking at screening. Second, we are looking at what is so much talked about these days, vaccinations. H so we now have vaccinations against cancers especially cervical cancer and uh as I'm sure most people are aware the government is rolling out these vac these vaccines and they have got fantastic programs where school girls are being given a single shot.
(34:05) >> Yeah. >> And which is supposed to prevent cervical cancer for almost a lifetime. So that is a fantastic idea you know for all girls who are less than 15 years of age one single shot of a gardicil 4 that prevents against not only cancer cervical cancer but also against warts and all of all that it's four kind of HPVs HPV is the cancer-causing virus yeah so 16 18 6 and 11 so these vaccines are being rolled out and actually distributed.
(34:42) We are also developing this in-house and have developed it. Servac vaccine that is called only thing we still don't have the uh you know uh the uh the numbers to be able to roll it out to the whole country. So that is a very very important uh aspect >> and then of course health lectures telling people especially if you have a cancer in your family please look at the index person and then you start your prevention or your screening 10 years from before that person had that cancer.
(35:13) So if somebody's has a cancer at age 50 you start your screening whatever the cancer may be at age 40. M >> so these kind of messages are being sent around and you know giving lectures in colleges and schools especially because that is a very very captive audience and that is what we need to capture and we need to address the boys as well so that they can look after the women folk at home.
(35:39) Call your mother, bring your mother, let us have a look at her. You know you call your wife bring next time you come call your wife >> like that all of this because men folk do get looked looked after though not always. >> Let us not go away with this that it is only women who are in denial. Many many men are in denial also and will ultimately report at a time where so many treatment modalities are now no longer useful to them.
(36:07) >> Got it. Fair. See, so all of this uh is really going towards positive health. >> Yeah. Uh Dr. Gita, if I was to look at uh you know this attitude that everyone in the family has, sometimes even women, every time they think of something that's happening with them, let's go to a gynecologist.
(36:28) Right? I'm talking here the gen the the general uh gynecologist or go to the local GP. I feel like while GPS is a very important part of our preventative health, many times it may go undetected because you went to the wrong physician or wrong specialist. How does one figure this out in a woman's journey? Because you know as we discussed after some ages there is some awareness but it's not so across the board. Very true.
(36:58) And um it goes without saying that most of the women would go to a gynecologist >> because you know or obstitrician because that is where they've had their children. They have this confidence. They have a relationship with the doctor. So they're most comfortable going to her and invariably you'll see that most of the breast cancers are coming from gynecologists who have picked up lumps and you know so that is the usual route uh by which from which we get uh get to see breast cancers.
(37:24) So there's a huge responsibility on the gynecologists also and there's been a lot of shift in the way gynecologists also look at breasts. Now earlier they were very very confined to what they did but now it is very unusual that a woman would go to a gynecologist and not have a breast checked. >> Yes, that's true.
(37:43) It invariably has become part of a pattern that they have accepted and they do a good job and they kind of would examine the patient's breasts and if she's an older woman they would ask for a mamogram as a screening. So this is opportunistic screening. That is what is existential in our country. they we do not have a screening program as such but if they were to visit their gynecologist they would say that look get a mamogram done and so many times we've picked up cancers from there and then of obviously they would refer such
(38:11) patients to us and then we would take uh the onus forward so um so it is a shared responsibility >> and I think it is also important to keep talking to our colleagues because there are new things that keep coming up and we do it all the time the conversation keeps happening between uh breast surgeons and gynecologists and physicians because you know as everything else evolves even our field evolves and there is always new information coming in and we kind of share it with our colleagues and uh we do see that it changes a lot in the
(38:46) manner in which we see patients and treat them. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I may be belaboring on the same point a little bit but I suppose it's never said enough. What are the symptoms that women should watch out for? So are you asking me in terms of gynecological cancers? >> I think it could be both because you know I think hearing you say that uh around gynecological cancers and breast cancer I think this is just a reinforcement for [snorts] our viewers.
(39:17) >> So as far as breast cancer is concerned like what Dr. Gita has also said we are to look for lumps. We should know our own body. That is so important. No. And uh uh overseas in the western countries self-examination is not considered uh you know uh of uh much use these days in terms of reducing the overall survival in breast cancer and all of all that.
(39:46) But in our country where screening is so less, awareness is so less, it is very important for us to tell our women that please do a breast examination and especially it should be done after your periods and should be done say once in 3 months or something like that and uh maybe often if you think you have a you know your family history or maybe you're feeling a suspicious lump or something like that and the moment you are suspicious about anything not only a lump but also about a breast secretion which should not be there whether it is
(40:22) blue, green, red, white whatever. So you need to go and get yourself checked and as far as gynecological cancers are concerned the most important symptom is an irregular bleed. Even more important than that is a bleed which is postcoal. After relationship if you are having a bleed please please please please go to a doctor extremely important also if it's excessive and you know generally if the uh bleed is excessive they do address it you know we find many of them going but if there is an intermenstrual bleed or if you know
(41:01) the especially the older age group they think oh I'm getting menopausal how does it matter it matters that is the danger zone >> I see >> the 50s and 60s is the the age where you get the maximum number of cervical cancers. You're obese, you're hypertensive, you're diabetic, you have a thyroid issue, and you are having post-menopausal bleeding.
(41:23) Please run to your doctor ASAP because that's an absolutely set pattern for endometrial cancers. >> Wow. However, having said all that, the most sinister and the most dangerous ones are the ovarian cancers which are so silent and 70% of them get diagnosed at the third stage. And what can you do about it? You know your body anytime you feel it's not quite the same.
(41:52) No, you're getting dispsia. You know your your there's some bloating is there. Your appetite is not what quite it used to be and perhaps you're losing weight though not necessarily. you think you getting tired faster, please go and visit your doctor. You're getting some urinary symptoms, don't just dismiss it. Oh, I'll just have a lot of water and it'll go away.
(42:14) No, get yourself checked because remember ovarian cancer gets detected 70% of the times at the third stage. I'm just reiterating that. So, these are a few things that women should be aware of and talk about it and talk about it. If you have a problem, share it with others. So different from what we are raised to do. >> True. Very true.
(42:34) >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Share it with others. Tell tell them that there's no harm in telling that you have cancer and that what you're wearing is actually a wig and it's not your own hair. >> No problem. You will see. Teach the others. It's so important. No, this kind of sisterhood is what we try to promote. >> That is why we have a women's cancer center.
(42:53) >> Yeah. >> Ask your neighbor, what's your problem? >> Mine is this. You are well now. Even I hope to be well. It's so simple. I want to move to what is called connected care. You know, I've been fascinated with the fact that every time we think in a very singular fashion, I will go to only one doctor and that doctor will have all the answers.
(43:16) And as complex as women's bodies go, I understand that your center is actually spending time having multiple doctors approach every patient's needs. I'd like you to talk a little bit about that. So cancer treatment is never about a single doctor. So there are patients who still come and say oh what if I just do surgery surgery about you know we don't need to do anything else.
(43:36) It doesn't work like that. >> Yeah >> it is always multimodality. Sometimes you require two modalities sometimes three sometimes four and along with that you need uh a lot of the other support bits. It could be genetics it could be psychooncology it could be uh physiootherapy. So all of these pieces and of course uh the main cogs in the wheel radiology pathology all of these people come together >> and that is how we work on the outcomes of the patients and try to deliver the best of care.
(44:10) So there is no way we can work in silos like it used to be family doctor and everything all solutions coming from one doctor that doesn't happen at all >> not with cancer >> right >> and combined with new technology um essentially a patient today has a lot of knowledge at hand and perhaps I should say kudos to the doctors today they are saying honestly what has to be seen.
(44:38) I mean there was a time when people used to go to a doctor and the doctor would say a solution but perhaps the you know patient was in denial or the doctors knew that they wouldn't be able to stomach enough but there is technology that's in becoming an enabler as well in addition to all the connected care that you offer.
(44:55) >> Yeah. So, if I may just um um quote one me which I sorry which somebody sent to me the other day which said that uh if Chad GPT has uh diagnosed your disease please ask Gemini to treat it. [laughter] >> True true. I also thought that so you see that is how it works out. No, people come to us after they have done a PET scan already or they have you know done a whole lot of um scans and maybe some tests and then they expect us to kind of wave a magic wand and everything goes away. So that does not happen.
(45:41) So like it has always been said man behind the machine is very important. >> Yeah. And [laughter] so also it is not a a man it is like a whole lot of them. You know cancer care involves a lot of people the before the cancer during the cancer and after the cancer. So it is very important to explain to the patient that yes you will be well but then you have to follow the laid down guidelines.
(46:07) No and you have to be as persistent in your treatment as we are in your care. >> Right? That is very important. It's okay. So before you actually finally decide to you know take your treatment at say Athena at our center please satisfy yourself take as many opinions as you want discuss it at home look after your economics whatever else but once you come here and you've decided that you are going to start your treatment here then please follow the guidelines follow the path and you will be well.
(46:41) Yeah, >> digressing sorry you know digressing in the middle of the treatment you know you know and not making up your mind uh late followups or coming late for your uh for your say for your drugs or for your uh uh say for your say x-rays or for investigations or whatever else doesn't help you >> so it's very important to explain this to them >> so that I find is extremely important because uh you know We we don't we absolutely discourage defaulters.
(47:14) >> Yeah. >> Explaining to them how much harm can come to them if they default. So that that's a very very basic part of cancer treatment. How has technology shifted and how much belief system um around tech uh has emerged today according to you. So it is creeping into all spaces but um you know now with AI and deep learning and all of that you cannot insulate yourself from what's happening there and um despite all that is happening I know uh where it plays a huge role is that it assists you in improving your ability to deliver
(47:55) >> because what I was doing in say an hour now with AI workflows and a lot of AI coming in it is possible to deliver the same in half the time. So you're saving on time because that rest of the time goes into patient care because >> because you know there is only finite amount of time.
(48:15) So I think that is very exciting because once your workflows are uh set you have got a lot of templates which can be generated >> with the help of AI. a lot of your um when the patient walks in a lot of the data that they are carrying can be made available to you even before you start the consult. >> So that's all a plus+ and I think um we have to slowly get used to uh AI assisting us in doing what we do and help us do it better.
(48:44) >> What about on the surgical side or precision uh you know surgical side or precision tech so to speak? >> Yes, of course. So so you know we do we use a lot of that. So uh Dr. Seikk does a lot of robotic work. I see >> um because you know gynecology you know that you do have a lot of uh space to incorporate robotics and in our situation so earlier you know if there are two lumps or three lumps in the breast the invariable uh conclusion would be that this patient has to have a mastctomy meaning a removal of the
(49:16) breast. But now with the support of imaging and the ability to uh uh you know precisely define the extent of tumor with the help of my radiologist I'm able to conserve a lot more breasts than I used to be earlier. Earlier it was to be always mastctomy but now we're able to conserve and also the ability to fill up these big spaces that you create by removing a larger part of the breast with enkoplasty.
(49:45) So all that is you know this is what technology has given us and a lot of times you know there could be cancers they the patient would have come with one cancer in the breast but with imaging you may actually pick up another one in the opposite breast >> which could have come back you know she would have completed treatment and then lo 6 months down the line she would the other side would have shown up and that is a very very uh you know self-defeating thing you would think oh I've just been through treatment and look I'm back to square one again and it
(50:13) is not easy to go through that treatment again because it is a tough treatment. >> So I think that is where technology kind of preempts a lot of things. >> Yeah. I know also that you know um things like imunotherapy and all of all that. >> So the basic aim now is to explain to the patient that cancer if you have cancer it is not the writing on the wall.
(50:36) >> Definitely not. with all these imunotherapies on all these various drugs and the advancement and all of that we try to change cancer into a chronic disease say like diabetes. >> Wow. >> So you take the medication and you carry on living. So that is what is the ultimate aim so that you know you don't lose your patient to cancer >> and so it's all very precise.
(51:02) It is very very individual. It is possible I envisage a time and say in the next decade or so >> when 10 beds of say breast cancer and each one would be getting a different treatment. >> Yeah. >> Because it is going to be completely individualized. Yeah. Personalized. >> Wow. You know, I just want to um conclude with two questions and I know I'm going to ask you to say a few things again because you can say this again and again as long as somebody out there can you know hear this and embibe one health habit, one check, one attitude shift
(51:36) that you think that women need to get and this needn't just be cancer. So the most important thing is that when you are prioritizing please put yourself as number one. >> Yeah. >> If you are number one believe me your whole family will be well and everyone will reach there. So if you put yourself at number 10 straight away you are jeopardizing yourself.
(52:07) You're jeopardizing your health and you're jeopardizing your family. Actually >> the ones you're trying to look after, you're actually [snorts] putting them on a back foot because you're not looking after yourself. Look after yourself. Dress well. Look at the mirror often. Be pretty. [laughter] Add lipstick. [gasps] >> Add that lipstick. Quite right.
(52:27) [laughter] >> Yes. >> So carrying from where Dr. Seikko finished, you know, you have to be body aware. Listen to your body and it does give you signals. It's not as if it does not. And even if it does not >> uh you know we are so busy buying a lot of gifts for Diwali. So I would say just gift a mamogram or just gift yourself a comprehensive health check and just take a day off and do these things every year and do your breast self-examination every month.
(52:59) Uh even if you are a 20 year old doesn't matter just you have to be body aware because that is where you're likely to pick up something which is going to save your life. Yeah, very nice. There was actually a actually an advertisement which was saying that um along with the dow you know give them a cvical cancer vaccine as well. >> So [laughter] yeah so it's a >> you know just want to ask you both how good are you with your own checks? >> So I've been so I will be honest I I not pretty not very good [laughter] but so I can tell you that my last mamogram was
(53:33) November of 2025 so I'm good. So uh so yeah so and uh yeah papsmear was another three years ago [laughter] >> fortunately was the first time I can say likewise >> otherwise you may disagree >> disagree [laughter] absolutely >> so I want to ask you so you know you've been talking about personalized care while one-on-one is so important I think many times the person sitting next to you or the groups that people can be part of become like the strength that you need uh how do you at uh you know at your case center look into this.
(54:10) >> So I've been a big believer of support groups. So I started the support group in 2007 when we were both in Rajiv Gandhi Cancer Institute >> and I was quite amazed at what I saw because I did not know it was going to turn out like that. It was supposed to be a 1-hour program and we had fixed five women to speak about their experience and once the five uh the first one started speaking the second ones but there were so many more who wanted to speak and earlier we were trying to get them to come over it were
(54:39) very difficult to get those five but once they started speaking everyone in the room wanted to speak so what started off as a 1-hour program finished in 2 and 1/2 hours and the energy in the room was quite amazing quite something so in Apollo Athena Also we have been carrying on the tradition.
(54:58) We do a support group every month and uh these are themed uh support groups. They could be we could be talking about uh the mental health issues. We could be talking about menopause. We could be talking about fertility. So uh there are a lot of uh areas that we touch on and we celebrate also. So recently we celebrated halit. So and women are happy to celebrate more more importantly the new ones who are having treatment when they see women who are also well turned out so confident >> all or and you know that relationship there is no comparison where someone
(55:35) who's been through the experience handles the one who has got been through a similar experience you cannot explain that love that flows so freely so I think support groups are a great way of telling women that you're going to be normal. So somebody asked me am I going to be normal? I said no not normal but better than normal.
(55:56) So >> so support group is a great tool to kind of bring these women together and trying to show them the future. >> And it's been 12 months of looking at patients at this care center. What do these patients tell you about the kind of care that they receive? So the message which I generally um send around to all these um women who are suffering or who have had cancer and I have seen that um it has actually happened like this that you are going to live longer than the other person who doesn't even look after themselves and I
(56:34) can remember at least three or four patients who have lost their husbands who didn't look after themselves. But these ladies are fine >> because of their constant checks and their uh you know constant investigations and constant um care that uh others are giving to them and they are giving to themselves and like what Gita said yes it's a different kind of sisterhood altogether.
(57:00) >> Yes. You know breast cancer fortunately has better survivors than gynecological cancers. Not only that unfortunately gynecological cancer somehow they carry a stigma whereas u breast cancer carries glamour. >> I mean one doesn't know how that has worked out but then that's how it is. I think it's been supported a lot in the west and and here by celebrities you know you have an Angela and Julie for breast cancer.
(57:32) You show me anybody who's getting up and saying oh I had cervical cancer or that I have >> stigma in there. >> Not only that uh the longevity of life is much lesser. It's a more severe cancer if I can say that. >> No. So that unfortunately is true. But uh nevertheless, it's important to um get them out in the open, get them to talk about it and um make them believe that they're as good as anybody else.
(58:00) And as we complete one year, what what comes to my mind is, you know, when we started off, you know, there are so many naysayers thinking, what the hell is this, you know, what is this women's cancer thing about? You know, >> and >> actual hostility, in fact. >> Yes. And they think that it is going to fail. So I don't see any of that that happening.
(58:20) This concept has really kind of caught on. There are so many women who come and say I think that comfort uh that caring that compassion that is the DNA of Athena is very visibly there and patients invariably come and say u touchwood they they say good things about uh the way they have been taken care of. It's not just about me because see we are all part of the same piece.
(58:47) Uh there are so many small pieces to the whole picture and I think each uh each piece has been very very vital to the way uh patients >> Yeah. Yeah. The jigsaw puzzle holds together. >> Yes. Absolutely. >> Absolutely. There's no doubt about that. >> Kudos to the two of you. >> Wonderful to have you both. Thank [laughter] you so much for joining me.
(59:05) Thank you for having >> Thank you for having us here. Thank you.
Author Name:SheThePeople TV
Youtube Channel Url:https://www.youtube.com/@shethepeople.tv
Youtube Video URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWpqPBpvRgY
Title: Everything Women Get Wrong About Cancer! | Apollo Doctors x Shaili Chopra
Author Name: SheThePeople TV
Description: Women's cancer is one of the most talked about health concerns today, but how much do we actually know about it?
In this special episode of The Shaili Chopra Show, Shaili Chopra sits down with two of India's leading cancer specialists, Dr. Geeta Kadayaprath and Dr. Rupinder Sekhon from Apollo Athenaa Women's Cancer Centre, to answer the biggest questions women and families have about breast cancer, gynecological cancers, prevention, diagnosis, treatment, fertility, menopause and survivorship.
From busting myths around hereditary cancer to explaining why younger women are increasingly being diagnosed, this conversation is a complete masterclass on women's cancer awareness. The doctors also explain how modern cancer treatment has evolved, why early detection saves lives, how fertility can often be preserved, and why cancer is no longer the diagnosis it once was.
Whether you're in your 20s, 30s, 40s or beyond, this episode could help you recognize warning signs, understand screening guidelines, and make informed decisions for yourself and your loved ones.
What you'll learn in this episode:
• Why breast cancer cases are rising among younger women
• The biggest myths around breast cancer
• Symptoms every woman should never ignore
• Breast self-examination explained
• Breast cancer screening and mammograms
• Cervical cancer prevention and HPV vaccination
• Fertility preservation during cancer treatment
• Menopause and cancer treatment
• Why cancer treatment today is completely different from before
• The importance of multidisciplinary cancer care
• How technology and AI are changing cancer treatment
• Preventive health habits every woman should adopt today
If this conversation helps you, share it with every woman in your family.
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Precap - What’s in store this episode!
01:44 - Introduction
02:11 - Why are breast cancer cases increasing?
04:09 - Lifestyle vs Genetics: What Really Causes Cancer?
06:26 - Can Breast Cancer Actually Be Prevented?
08:19 - Breast Self-Examination & Screening Explained
10:07 - Breast Awareness During Pregnancy & Breastfeeding
10:59 - Why Women Ignore Preventive Health Checks
14:55 - Inside Apollo Athenaa Women's Cancer Centre
17:04 - Life After Cancer: Why Quality of Life Matters
18:05 - Fertility Preservation During Cancer Treatment
20:19 - Menopause, Hormones & Women's Health
22:20 - Surgical Menopause & Its Emotional Impact
26:26 - Why Empathy Is Essential in Cancer Care
33:03 - Prevention, HPV Vaccine & Cancer Screening
36:14 - When Should You See a Specialist?
38:49 - Breast Cancer Symptoms Every Woman Should Know
41:19 - Gynecological Cancer Symptoms You Should Never Ignore
43:04 - Why Cancer Treatment Needs Multiple Specialists
44:20 - AI & Technology in Modern Cancer Treatment
48:43 - How Technology Is Improving Breast Cancer Surgery
50:22 - Personalized Cancer Treatment Is the Future
51:17 - The One Health Habit Every Woman Should Adopt
53:51 - Support Groups & Healing After Cancer
56:01 - How Apollo Athenaa Is Changing Women's Cancer Care
Dr. Geeta Kadayaprath is a leading Breast Surgical Oncologist and Oncoplastic Breast Surgeon at Apollo Athenaa Women's Cancer Centre. With extensive experience in breast conservation surgery, oncoplastic reconstruction and comprehensive breast cancer care, she is dedicated to combining advanced surgical techniques with compassionate, patient-centered treatment.
Dr. Rupinder Sekhon is the Principal Lead for Gynecologic Surgical Oncology at Apollo Athenaa Women's Cancer Centre. She specializes in the treatment of gynecological cancers while focusing on fertility preservation, minimally invasive surgery, survivorship and holistic care for women across every stage of life.
Apollo Athenaa Women's Cancer Centre is a dedicated center focused exclusively on women's cancers, offering comprehensive care for breast and gynecological cancers. The centre brings together surgical oncologists, medical oncologists, radiation oncologists, genetic counselors, fertility specialists, psychologists, physiotherapists and rehabilitation experts to deliver truly multidisciplinary care. Beyond treatment, Apollo Athenaa emphasizes prevention, early detection, survivorship, emotional well-being and personalized support, helping women navigate every stage of their cancer journey with confidence and dignity.
If this conversation inspired you, don't forget to Like, Comment, Share, and Subscribe to SheThePeople for more conversations with women who are breaking barriers and redefining success.
Connect with SheThePeople:
Website: https://www.shethepeople.tv/
IG: / shethepeopletv
Twitter: / shethepeople
LinkedIn: / shethepeople
Audio Courtesy:
Blue Sizzle - Madness Paranoia by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 licence. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Transcript:
(00:00) Of all the cancers [music] only 10% are actually familiar or genetic. 90% are actually incidental. We have so many [music] of these myths that if one person in the family has the cancer everybody else is going to have said that >> are you saying that young women should get themselves scan? >> No no scan.
(00:24) We have treatment wherein we can treat the cancer without taking out the uterus at all and she can have a child. For instance, she has say endometrial cancer. Pregnancy is actually a treatment for that. Cancer is a hyper hormonal state. There is too much of the hormone in the body especially estrogen and it is this estrogen which is causing these cancers.
(00:46) >> You remove the ovaries and be saying that you're going to live long. She can't start fracturing at the age of 55 because her bones are going to go for a because estrogen is a bone friendly hormone. >> One single shot of prevents against a cervical cancer. Many times it may go undetected because you went to the wrong physician or wrong specialist.
(01:07) [gasps] How does one figure this out? The most dangerous ones are those which are so silent and 70% of them get diagnosed at the third stage. Earlier you know if there are two lumps or three lumps in the breast the invariable conclusion would be that this patient has to have a mastctomy meaning a removal of the breast but now with the support of I'm able to conserve a lot more breast than I used to be earlier.
(01:33) What are the symptoms that women should watch out for? Hello and welcome. You're with us on the Shelli Chopra show and I've got two very special guests and a very important conversation women health and prevention. With us is Dr. Gita Kardraat, principal lead breast surgical oncology and encoplasty surgery. >> Thank you. >> And Dr.
(02:04) Rupindra Seikko, principal lead Gynac surgical oncology. >> Thank you. >> Both of you are literally doing the work of gods. you know women, breast cancer, efforts towards prevention and of course finding the cure so one can bring back life for people who suffer through cancer. This is something that seems to have become a common place problem.
(02:30) women of my age and sometimes even earlier in their 30s uh you know are diagnosed with breast cancer just want to spend a little bit of time understanding what is happening and why is it happening in our worlds so much so today maybe I'll start with you Dr. in there. >> So there are several reasons for this. The most important being early detection and also an increasing consciousness uh about the health amongst women and so much of advertising and uh so much of stress on women well-being presently which was never there before. M so when
(03:15) we are doing all of all that we are telling ladies to look out for lump breast lumps and we are telling the elderly ladies don't ignore any secretions from the breast which you might think oh that's that's common place and all of all that and also we have doctors available close at hand who are able to address all these problems so that is the reason why you know we are actually encountering more of breast cancer >> also Longevity of life is another very big factor.
(03:46) So we have women living much longer than they used to. 50s used to be old age like nothing on earth whereas 60s is the new 40s these days you know so we here. So all these factors they contribute to I would say detecting more of breast cancer rather than that the incidence is actually increasing which it really is also >> right Dr.
(04:10) Clearly the intent of awareness is a very positive uh effort but the fact is that something is leading to widespread um you know sort of expanding of this disease among women. How do you view the onus of this? Is it lifestyle? Um is it hereditary? Is it you know how would women sort of figure why it's happening today? So like you said it's a combination of things you know it's a lifestyle disease for sure.
(04:44) So it's a complex interplay between lifestyle environment and genetics. So all these things put together does you know raise the numbers that we are seeing and of course the alarming thing is like you said we seeing them earlier. So we used to the even now you know the majority of breast cancers happen in the 50 to 70 age group. >> Yeah.
(05:06) But what is alarming in our country and I'm saying that this is happening in our country which is that under 40 the incidence of breast cancer is 15 to 20%. So 15 to 20% of breast cancers are happening in that age group >> under 40. >> Under 40. >> Wow. >> So there are a lot of wrongs that we're doing which we want don't want to look in the eye but the fact is you know you look at air, water, food whatever uh there is a certain degree of pollution to it.
(05:36) uh we may think that we are eating right but that's not necessarily the truth. >> Uh we may be eating right but we do not know the source of the food that is on our plate. >> Yeah. >> Um the amount of fertilizers or the pesticides that go into it. And of course there is a lot about the crops that are being produced which um may not be the same as what we used to use several years earlier.
(06:00) M >> and I somehow think you know there has been an escalation since plastic came into our lives too. Before the '90s there was no plastic in the country and if you look at the you know the rise in the incidence of all kinds of cancers you would see that there is a a definite uh you know swing in the numbers since but I'm not saying that is the only cause but there is a lot that is not right about the way we do things.
(06:26) >> So Dr. Sego, it seems like the factors at play are a lot not in our hands. Yet there is always talk of prevention. You know, there are tests uh and there can be scanning but factors seem to be very fundamental to human behavior that we can't sort of always track. Like we talked about water, air, plastic.
(06:52) Most of the time people don't even know they're exposed to some of these impurities. um consistently. So do you think we're asking too much of the person when one looks at uh some of these extraneous factors? So let me address your first statement first. Of all the cancers only 10% are actually familiar or genetic.
(07:16) >> 90% are actually incidental. >> I see. So we have so many of these myths circulating that if one person in the family has the cancer so everybody else is going to have. Having said that definitely for those who have have cancer in the family they need to be more vigilant. They need to be more strict in the surveillance and they need to see a doctor definitely more often than those who do not have cancer.
(07:43) as to addressing all the other non-modifiable factors what we call like you said you know we cannot modify the plastic we cannot modify the water we don't even know what it is all about no we really don't have uh much in our hands but the modifiable factors definitely we see an increasing incidence of alcohol intake of smoking and of substance abuse amongst women as com as compared to what it used to be before so all these definitely add on to all kinds of sicknesses, not only cancers and not only breast cancer, but everything else.
(08:20) >> So what does prevention really look like other than scanning? >> So you know, it's a tough question to answer. >> So I'm saying that, you know, we're seeing younger cancers, but what do we have for young women? We don't. M >> so if I were to say in in in terms of breast cancer you would say mamogram clinical breast examination breast self- examination to create awareness about the breast but what do we have for younger women you know there's really nothing >> and um if you were to ask a 25year-old are you examining your breast you know
(08:50) they should look at me strangely and say are you right in your head you know why do you want me to do that but the fact is you know there is no age to being breast aware but a lot of times that age group does not respond to the situation like like a 40 year old or a 45year-old would. >> Yeah. >> So there is a certain hesitancy to kind of uh start looking at yourself.
(09:14) >> Are you saying that young women should get themselves scanned? Is that even scanned? >> No. No, not scanned. Just be aware of their own breasts >> which is breast self-examination. It is not a screening tool. Got it. >> But it is a method to be aware of yourself. A lot of women are loath to touch their breasts.
(09:31) >> Uh it familiarity with the breast is what is going to allow you to pick up something new that happens in the background of what you've been feeling all this while. So >> um that is one of those things. Um but in the 20 to 40 age group, we really don't have anything. Um ultrasound is not a screening tool.
(09:50) But having said that, if there is a woman who's got a very strong family history or even carries a genetic mutation, there you may ask uh that lady to have an MRI of the breast to screen herself along with mamograms but not otherwise. >> Got it. >> Yeah. And if I may say adding to what uh Dr.
(10:12) Gita very nicely said amongst young women, >> we need to really educate our lactating population. So there a lot of young women who are lactating they think that a breast lump or this thing it is probably just a breast absis or maybe it's just a breast [clears throat] encodment and uh not only would they not address it themselves even their uh rest of the family members say the mother the mother-in-law or whosoever is in the house might just dismiss it as [clears throat] just a factor of just a function of lactation.
(10:43) True >> and it might actually be something much more sinister. So uh like what Dr. Gita said very rightly, we need to familiarize ourselves with our body ourselves more so for the lactating mother. >> I think that's a really good point. Uh before I spend some time on the current work you're doing, I want to ask both of you to give a bit of piece of advice on why preventative health as a whole has been very to a very high degree ignored by women in particular.
(11:20) I see so many men looking for preventive checks, preventive uh supplements, preventive something or the other. they on top of their preventive game compared with women. So maybe you can go first and I'll ask her. >> So you have to understand that women play a lot several roles during the day. So I keep saying that you know you have if I were to make a priority list uh on the top of it would be children then husband then in-laws then job then uh shopping then this and that and the other and probably 10 would sit the woman. M
(11:49) >> so by the time the priority number 10 comes it is already 11 in the night and you're ready to crash and start another day. So a lot of times we do ignore uh and and we we do not want to know. That's also another thing. I don't want to know. I'm good. I don't feel anything. So why should I be going for a health check? So many times women who have been to health checks and have found something in the breast or you know something very innocuous micro calcifications which are the earliest that you can catch cancer they say why
(12:19) the hell did I go for the health check you know I should not have gone. So that's uh that's the way uh some women look at that not realizing that by catching that cancer that early there is a 98 to 100% chance that she's as good as new. >> Wow. >> But healthy women just don't go. There have been times when I've been trying to create do these awareness lectures and there have been four or five women or maybe even 10 women of which five will quickly slip away saying we don't want to hear this.
(12:52) >> Wow. So you know they don't want to this is bad news and I don't want to hear something which is negative. >> So if you perceive this as negative not realizing that it is an investment for the future then you'll keep running away from preventive health checks which I think needs to catch speed in our country.
(13:10) >> Yeah. So one is the denial Dr. Seiko. The other is also perhaps for years our medical system has looked at women as just producers of good news and perhaps not someone who was selfaware. I like the term breast aware both of you were using. Just kind of wondering if you feel or see the psyche shift. >> [snorts] >> So straight away can I disagree with you because >> absolutely [laughter] I love that >> because I don't think it's very fair to blame the medical system for uh the women being you know put on um uh say a
(13:50) lesser shelf as far as uh um medical checks are concerned it is they themselves like if I can take the cue from Dr. Gita there is so much of denial even for small diseases, small things and also so much more for a larger thing. What are the neighbors going to say if they get to know that I have cervical cancer? >> What is the whole neighborhood going to say? But if the guy is sick or something, everybody will come and ask how can I help? See, so this our society is like that.
(14:23) We all think like that. We all say like that. Don't tell anyone. Don't tell anyone. Tell anyone that the mom is sick. Let her be. Doesn't matter. But on the flip side, I'm so glad to hear that, you know, all these health checks are now coming in vogue. >> And those health checks include the wife, the daughter, the mother, and the mother-in-law. Excellent.
(14:50) >> So, we really hope to see better days. >> Yeah. I share your optimism. [laughter] uh let's talk about why Apollo Athena came to be. Of course you know we know that there's an increase in the total number of cancers being detected particularly breast cancer but why do you feel that there is um today need for a center that's very vertically deep and specific to this uh you know requirement.
(15:22) uh do you see people coming there often to get their checks done? You know, how is it changing the mindset of your patients today? So I think we have to build that story. So that is what Apollo Athena is all about. We want to start those conversations which otherwise don't happen. M >> so in a crowded hospital where everybody is walking past you that overwhelming sense of not being heard is is quite there you know it's it is uh what kind of overwhelms women they just don't come out with their problems so I think Athena is is a space created with that
(15:59) in mind that is where we hope that she's able to express herself and we're seeing that uh we know that um See, it's about the woman. It is about that individual. A lot of times you will see the conversations in hospitals about treating disease. >> So here you're talking about treating an individual whose needs are a lot of times very different from uh the entire you know if you put all the population together. She wants the privacy.
(16:29) She wants the dignity. She wants the space whether she can express herself. She wants to be taken care of by women who empathize with her. So that is what Athena is all about. And Athena is uh is a space which just does not talk about just treatment. There is so much happening before and after >> and after cancer is what is going to put you back into society as that individual who's confident and just as good as anybody else who's never had cancer.
(17:01) So uh cancer cannot be that deterrent. Cancer cannot be confidencebreaking. So all those issues that happen during treatment and after treatment need to be addressed and we at Athena want that story to unfold. We want to take care of her psychological issues her so you know there is a lot of issues like menopause which I'm sure Dr.
(17:25) Seiko will be able to tell you how women find it so tough to deal with menopausal symptoms, but we're not talking about it. Yes, >> she's just dealing with it and she starts believing that's the new normal. >> She doesn't have to deal with it. >> She needs to be taken care of and there are ways to take care of it. There are experts to take care of it.
(17:41) If there is a young woman um desirous of being a mother, we should be able to offer that solution and say, "Look, it is possible to preserve your fertility for future. We want to create a regret-free life for every woman because now women are living longer because the treatments have improved.
(17:59) So what have we done to make their lives better? So it is always quality over quantity. >> So that is what it Dr. Sego. Um I want to talk to you about both fertility and menopause both uh you know at the other ends of the spectrum and where and how um do you sort of create that that belief uh at your organization about preserving that experience on both ends because uh I imagine that a woman who is entered permenopause and menopause and finds herself with other complications uh oncological compos uh issues. She's probably just got a double
(18:39) whammy she didn't plan for at all. It's so hard to already deal with uh menopause symptoms and then to have something that's clinically extremely uh you know at one extreme. Just love to know your thoughts uh as a gynecologist as well. So for each and every woman woman whoseever she might be fertility is so so important because for the simple reason that fertility defines them.
(19:04) Menopause does not define her but fertility defines her. So if there is anything which is compromising that straight away you find her so much so depressed and you find her looking around and trying to hide herself and trying to negate all of all that. No, here we address women with cancer and yet try to p to preserve their fertility which is so important whether it is an endometal cancer say that is a uterine cancer and where they don't have any children at all.
(19:39) You know we have treatment wherein we can treat the cancer without taking out the uterus at all. No, it is purely a medical treatment and she can have a child and we can explain to her that for instance she has say endometrial cancer I'm just giving endometroid cancer I'm just giving you an example pregnancy is actually a treatment for that >> wow >> and we handhold her till she reaches there and there is so much of joy in seeing her and for us in seeing her achieving a baby having a baby you know and all that
(20:18) is so so wonderful and as far as menopause is concerned we try to explain to them that there's it's I mean it's not like a setting sun >> absolutely not that's exactly how women take it >> so that's what >> which is why the battle with menopause is often >> yes >> how do I look younger how do I manage how do I preserve myself you know that that battle just seems a bit futile because it's just coming it's not going to stop and >> so all your nutitions and your beauty products are actually [laughter] they are actually you know having a ball
(20:58) on all of all this because they all feel like this that menopause oh my god there's the end of life it's not only the your um mutitionians and the beauty products is the men >> who attribute everything oh today you're nasty or today you are in a temple you're getting menopausal it's because of your menopause they keep attributing all these things So we teach the women the police turned around and said same turned around and say same to you.
(21:22) You are talking to me like this [laughter] probably because you are there too. So you know I mean uh that's in a lighter vein. >> No no [laughter] important to be taken seriously nonetheless. >> Absolutely. >> Yes. But we do explain to them that when there is menopause these are the things that you now need to look after.
(21:41) You need to look after your cardiac health. You need to look after your bone health. And you need to be aware that menopause is one whole year without periods. >> Anything which is less than that is not really menopause. And having said that, if you have any kind of a bleed or any kind of a discharge which is unsavory after 1 year of not having bled, please address it immediately ASAP.
(22:08) >> Okay. So that might be a harbinger of something uh sinister and u not necessarily a cancer maybe a precancer or maybe something but definitely needs to be looked at needs to be looked at important I also want to ask you this for a lot of women who uh have to undergo forced menopause because of cancer itself right so if you could just talk a little bit about that because now as we heard this has been happening to women in their 30s So what exactly happens uh if somebody gets cancer and then they're on their journey to
(22:43) menopause or whatever it the estrogen has to be massively controlled. So this has several aspects. >> Yeah. >> The most important and the most um um I would say something which strikes them uh straight away is what is termed as a surgical menopause. >> Yes. So surgical menopause would mean that through surgery we take away the uterus as well as the ovaries and that is what produces maximum amount of menopausal symptoms in the young lady and that is where we have to address her maximum and we have to you know kind of
(23:18) handhold her and medicate her depending on for what the uterus and the ovaries have been removed. Yeah, >> this might be done sometimes for a non-cancerous condition like for instance endometriosis or it might be done for some kind of cancer for inance ovarian cancer or a uterine cancer. So if it is cancer we have to remember that cancer is a hyper hormonal state that means there is too much of the hormone in the body >> especially estrogen and it is this estrogen which is causing these cancers.
(23:54) So once you explain to her that you're well rided of a malady she will half the symptoms will go away there only. So it's very important to talk it's very important to explain to her that what has happened to you and if that is not the case you have to explain to them that bone health is so much dependent on activities.
(24:14) >> Yeah. >> Please join a gym, please join dancing classes. Please walk around, laugh around, anything to make you feel happy. And you will find that most of these symptoms they just disappear. >> Such a good point. But but for younger women I also think you know especially with breast cancer you know a lot of people are very trigger happy and want to remove everybody's ovaries >> especially in a hormone sensitive tumor.
(24:37) >> So I'm kind of not a big fan of that because you know there's a 35year-old you remove the ovaries >> and we saying that you're going to live long >> but she can't start fracturing at the age of 55. she's doomed because her bones are going to go for a to because it is a bone friendly hormone whatever said and done estrogen is a bone friendly hormone.
(24:57) True >> but having said that uh just as Dr. Seek said you know there are times that it is inevitable. We just have to handhold them through the process. It can be quite devastating actually because you know suddenly you realize that you know u a 35year-old has got all the hormones right there you know just the way it should be makes you feel so good.
(25:16) >> The feminine bit of it is all about those hormones and the moment you take them away suddenly >> it can have a terrible terrible impact on the psyche of the patient. >> Yeah. You know how it is like I had one patient yesterday nothing is that uterus is doing nothing absolutely nothing there is no menstruation she's a youngster the ovaries have already been taken away for a breast cancer like Dr.
(25:40) Gita said and yet she says I'm so happy I have a uterus. Okay. Psychological. >> See, there's so much of psychological impact with that that I have something which defines my femininity whether it is doing something over there or not. Till her husband asked that I mean doctor can you please explain to me now that her uterus is there what is its function? I just had to tell him that it is essentially childbearing which is done away with but no it is uh you know something that uh she would really like to have and I do not want to duplicate
(26:14) it on you. >> Yeah. >> If you were to lose something just like that and which defines your masculinity. So I don't think you should really question her. If she wants to keep her you just let her. You know, um I was going to ask you both use the term handholding, but I am I am thinking even just talking to the two of you, I feel so seen.
(26:39) The two of you are so um you're bringing science to people's regular lives in a way that they totally get it with a lot of empathy. Is this something that's coming because of the way you both have been trained or is it also an important approach at where you're working today that empathy has to go beyond just disease-led empathy? I mean you both are literally talking to a modern woman like a modern woman would like to be seen and heard.
(27:07) >> So I think that is central to our existence. >> Yeah. this one. I think you know science is in its place and I think we all uh you know kind of [clears throat] >> uh try to deliver the science but science has no meaning if you don't >> uh get it across to the person sitting across the table to you in the manner that she wants to be heard.
(27:24) >> Yeah. >> Um see I can just be very curt and you know do things the way it is you know just throw some statistics here there some numbers. How does it affect her? You know what is what have I given to her? Nothing. >> But Dr. Gita this is the this is the blueprint that Indian women have been fed on you know what I mean they've had people who don't even bother to look beyond a specific uh issue of the body and here you are connecting all the dots for them >> you will not realize that you know a lot of times the conversation is not just
(27:59) about the disease it is about that individual you're talking about how is her life situation what is her social background there's so many who are you know single mothers. There could be women who are struggling with children who are special. So you know what what best can you do? You can only make the impact of the blow that they have received in the form of cancer lesser.
(28:23) >> Yeah. >> I think that is I think that is quite a large part of our jobs. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And you want to make each visit for her pleasant a memory so she knows that yes you know I went there but then that that's all right. I've got cancer but that's fine. Somebody over there is bothered.
(28:40) Someone over there is going to look after me. It's so important whether we are able to do something or no, whether she's able to come back to us or no for whatever reason. Sometimes it is sheer just economics. >> That's all right. But you know she should not go away feeling lesser than what she is. That is so important.
(28:56) >> Yes. >> So many times we've had such encounters also where the patient would come to you but is not able to stay with you for various reasons like Dr. secu said >> but then they come back after they've been through just to say that you know that little thing that you know you would not even have realized that you said something to her which kind of reassured her >> but I think those random conversations are very very important.
(29:19) Yeah, something simple like we know in our mind that's a big question mark but doesn't matter it's not important to tell her just that and then they come back to you saying that that time you said this thing you don't even remember what you said >> but you know you realize what is the impact of all of all that so I think it's very very important to be first of all humane and kind >> yeah no >> and a large part of our story >> especially kind >> and a large part of our story is hope >> if we are not able to transfer hope into the hearts of individuals who are
(29:51) fighting this biggest battle of their life. I don't think we've done uh enough. So just want to ask one more thing before I shift gears is as women who grew in a very different generation of how doctors were trained uh where I don't think all the doctors of at least your uh generation I've heard them say that we were taught empathy right is this something that you are is it is it your effort to give back or fix the system just curious because even now they say that doctors are hardly taught talked about women you
(30:27) know when they are training I can see Dr. >> [laughter] >> So we are not taught I don't think we are taught you know now there's a lot of talk about you know soft skills [laughter] I don't know I somehow sometimes wonder soft skills but of course you can you can train yourself not saying you cannot but our generation it was not part of our curriculum >> but now there is a lot of emphasis on it being part of the curriculum >> I I just want to disagree with that again see how I was taught.
(31:02) Um, my teachers always told me that you just be kind. Literally these words. And my mother, she was a maths teacher, she told me, she said after I graduated, she told me, she says, you will have lots of patients coming to you. Many of them you cannot cure. You cannot cure everyone.
(31:26) But just remember to be kind to them. you know they they come to you with a lot of hope. So and even my teachers and all they taught us this this is something I find a little lacking in youngsters of today. So that's why you have AI and you have soft skills and you have this that and the other you know to help them out. I don't think that we should go away with this message that our generation was not taught to be.
(31:50) It is I I don't see so when I say taught >> so there is no structure to that teaching even you know so when you say soft skills teaching so there is a lot of structure a b c d so there was no structure to what we were >> I would not say I would not say taught it is like something that you embibe from the environment [clears throat] that you grow up in so there are you know there are parents who would be telling you >> you know you have to be like kind >> and then you know there are teachers you would who would lead by example >> you would say oh yeah this is this is
(32:17) the way to be And then you think huh this is the way I also want to be. You could be you know everybody's a rebel. >> I I would think that we we were you know that at some point in life you think you're very idealistic but you don't really know the steps to reach uh that idealistic uh goal and but then yeah but then there are these mentors who kind of >> try and shape you.
(32:41) So I keep always keep comparing myself to a lump of uh you know clay >> which is molded you know. So we are all molded but then you know you have to be fortunate also to get those kind of mentors. Um so that is >> and now you both are part of an organization where you're carrying that brand of kindness. I love the idea of sisterhood coming together with science and you both really do embody that.
(33:03) >> Um I want to talk a little more about what we started earlier mo moving from reactive to preventive. Uh as a country we wait till the last minute. As women, we wait to the last of last minutes before we dial up and go. What does preventative look like when it comes to cancer? Maybe you can talk a little bit about even the gynecological cancers and breast cancer both.
(33:32) So when we talk about prevention, we are first of all looking at screening. Second, we are looking at what is so much talked about these days, vaccinations. H so we now have vaccinations against cancers especially cervical cancer and uh as I'm sure most people are aware the government is rolling out these vac these vaccines and they have got fantastic programs where school girls are being given a single shot.
(34:05) >> Yeah. >> And which is supposed to prevent cervical cancer for almost a lifetime. So that is a fantastic idea you know for all girls who are less than 15 years of age one single shot of a gardicil 4 that prevents against not only cancer cervical cancer but also against warts and all of all that it's four kind of HPVs HPV is the cancer-causing virus yeah so 16 18 6 and 11 so these vaccines are being rolled out and actually distributed.
(34:42) We are also developing this in-house and have developed it. Servac vaccine that is called only thing we still don't have the uh you know uh the uh the numbers to be able to roll it out to the whole country. So that is a very very important uh aspect >> and then of course health lectures telling people especially if you have a cancer in your family please look at the index person and then you start your prevention or your screening 10 years from before that person had that cancer.
(35:13) So if somebody's has a cancer at age 50 you start your screening whatever the cancer may be at age 40. M >> so these kind of messages are being sent around and you know giving lectures in colleges and schools especially because that is a very very captive audience and that is what we need to capture and we need to address the boys as well so that they can look after the women folk at home.
(35:39) Call your mother, bring your mother, let us have a look at her. You know you call your wife bring next time you come call your wife >> like that all of this because men folk do get looked looked after though not always. >> Let us not go away with this that it is only women who are in denial. Many many men are in denial also and will ultimately report at a time where so many treatment modalities are now no longer useful to them.
(36:07) >> Got it. Fair. See, so all of this uh is really going towards positive health. >> Yeah. Uh Dr. Gita, if I was to look at uh you know this attitude that everyone in the family has, sometimes even women, every time they think of something that's happening with them, let's go to a gynecologist.
(36:28) Right? I'm talking here the gen the the general uh gynecologist or go to the local GP. I feel like while GPS is a very important part of our preventative health, many times it may go undetected because you went to the wrong physician or wrong specialist. How does one figure this out in a woman's journey? Because you know as we discussed after some ages there is some awareness but it's not so across the board. Very true.
(36:58) And um it goes without saying that most of the women would go to a gynecologist >> because you know or obstitrician because that is where they've had their children. They have this confidence. They have a relationship with the doctor. So they're most comfortable going to her and invariably you'll see that most of the breast cancers are coming from gynecologists who have picked up lumps and you know so that is the usual route uh by which from which we get uh get to see breast cancers.
(37:24) So there's a huge responsibility on the gynecologists also and there's been a lot of shift in the way gynecologists also look at breasts. Now earlier they were very very confined to what they did but now it is very unusual that a woman would go to a gynecologist and not have a breast checked. >> Yes, that's true.
(37:43) It invariably has become part of a pattern that they have accepted and they do a good job and they kind of would examine the patient's breasts and if she's an older woman they would ask for a mamogram as a screening. So this is opportunistic screening. That is what is existential in our country. they we do not have a screening program as such but if they were to visit their gynecologist they would say that look get a mamogram done and so many times we've picked up cancers from there and then of obviously they would refer such
(38:11) patients to us and then we would take uh the onus forward so um so it is a shared responsibility >> and I think it is also important to keep talking to our colleagues because there are new things that keep coming up and we do it all the time the conversation keeps happening between uh breast surgeons and gynecologists and physicians because you know as everything else evolves even our field evolves and there is always new information coming in and we kind of share it with our colleagues and uh we do see that it changes a lot in the
(38:46) manner in which we see patients and treat them. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I may be belaboring on the same point a little bit but I suppose it's never said enough. What are the symptoms that women should watch out for? So are you asking me in terms of gynecological cancers? >> I think it could be both because you know I think hearing you say that uh around gynecological cancers and breast cancer I think this is just a reinforcement for [snorts] our viewers.
(39:17) >> So as far as breast cancer is concerned like what Dr. Gita has also said we are to look for lumps. We should know our own body. That is so important. No. And uh uh overseas in the western countries self-examination is not considered uh you know uh of uh much use these days in terms of reducing the overall survival in breast cancer and all of all that.
(39:46) But in our country where screening is so less, awareness is so less, it is very important for us to tell our women that please do a breast examination and especially it should be done after your periods and should be done say once in 3 months or something like that and uh maybe often if you think you have a you know your family history or maybe you're feeling a suspicious lump or something like that and the moment you are suspicious about anything not only a lump but also about a breast secretion which should not be there whether it is
(40:22) blue, green, red, white whatever. So you need to go and get yourself checked and as far as gynecological cancers are concerned the most important symptom is an irregular bleed. Even more important than that is a bleed which is postcoal. After relationship if you are having a bleed please please please please go to a doctor extremely important also if it's excessive and you know generally if the uh bleed is excessive they do address it you know we find many of them going but if there is an intermenstrual bleed or if you know
(41:01) the especially the older age group they think oh I'm getting menopausal how does it matter it matters that is the danger zone >> I see >> the 50s and 60s is the the age where you get the maximum number of cervical cancers. You're obese, you're hypertensive, you're diabetic, you have a thyroid issue, and you are having post-menopausal bleeding.
(41:23) Please run to your doctor ASAP because that's an absolutely set pattern for endometrial cancers. >> Wow. However, having said all that, the most sinister and the most dangerous ones are the ovarian cancers which are so silent and 70% of them get diagnosed at the third stage. And what can you do about it? You know your body anytime you feel it's not quite the same.
(41:52) No, you're getting dispsia. You know your your there's some bloating is there. Your appetite is not what quite it used to be and perhaps you're losing weight though not necessarily. you think you getting tired faster, please go and visit your doctor. You're getting some urinary symptoms, don't just dismiss it. Oh, I'll just have a lot of water and it'll go away.
(42:14) No, get yourself checked because remember ovarian cancer gets detected 70% of the times at the third stage. I'm just reiterating that. So, these are a few things that women should be aware of and talk about it and talk about it. If you have a problem, share it with others. So different from what we are raised to do. >> True. Very true.
(42:34) >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Share it with others. Tell tell them that there's no harm in telling that you have cancer and that what you're wearing is actually a wig and it's not your own hair. >> No problem. You will see. Teach the others. It's so important. No, this kind of sisterhood is what we try to promote. >> That is why we have a women's cancer center.
(42:53) >> Yeah. >> Ask your neighbor, what's your problem? >> Mine is this. You are well now. Even I hope to be well. It's so simple. I want to move to what is called connected care. You know, I've been fascinated with the fact that every time we think in a very singular fashion, I will go to only one doctor and that doctor will have all the answers.
(43:16) And as complex as women's bodies go, I understand that your center is actually spending time having multiple doctors approach every patient's needs. I'd like you to talk a little bit about that. So cancer treatment is never about a single doctor. So there are patients who still come and say oh what if I just do surgery surgery about you know we don't need to do anything else.
(43:36) It doesn't work like that. >> Yeah >> it is always multimodality. Sometimes you require two modalities sometimes three sometimes four and along with that you need uh a lot of the other support bits. It could be genetics it could be psychooncology it could be uh physiootherapy. So all of these pieces and of course uh the main cogs in the wheel radiology pathology all of these people come together >> and that is how we work on the outcomes of the patients and try to deliver the best of care.
(44:10) So there is no way we can work in silos like it used to be family doctor and everything all solutions coming from one doctor that doesn't happen at all >> not with cancer >> right >> and combined with new technology um essentially a patient today has a lot of knowledge at hand and perhaps I should say kudos to the doctors today they are saying honestly what has to be seen.
(44:38) I mean there was a time when people used to go to a doctor and the doctor would say a solution but perhaps the you know patient was in denial or the doctors knew that they wouldn't be able to stomach enough but there is technology that's in becoming an enabler as well in addition to all the connected care that you offer.
(44:55) >> Yeah. So, if I may just um um quote one me which I sorry which somebody sent to me the other day which said that uh if Chad GPT has uh diagnosed your disease please ask Gemini to treat it. [laughter] >> True true. I also thought that so you see that is how it works out. No, people come to us after they have done a PET scan already or they have you know done a whole lot of um scans and maybe some tests and then they expect us to kind of wave a magic wand and everything goes away. So that does not happen.
(45:41) So like it has always been said man behind the machine is very important. >> Yeah. And [laughter] so also it is not a a man it is like a whole lot of them. You know cancer care involves a lot of people the before the cancer during the cancer and after the cancer. So it is very important to explain to the patient that yes you will be well but then you have to follow the laid down guidelines.
(46:07) No and you have to be as persistent in your treatment as we are in your care. >> Right? That is very important. It's okay. So before you actually finally decide to you know take your treatment at say Athena at our center please satisfy yourself take as many opinions as you want discuss it at home look after your economics whatever else but once you come here and you've decided that you are going to start your treatment here then please follow the guidelines follow the path and you will be well.
(46:41) Yeah, >> digressing sorry you know digressing in the middle of the treatment you know you know and not making up your mind uh late followups or coming late for your uh for your say for your drugs or for your uh uh say for your say x-rays or for investigations or whatever else doesn't help you >> so it's very important to explain this to them >> so that I find is extremely important because uh you know We we don't we absolutely discourage defaulters.
(47:14) >> Yeah. >> Explaining to them how much harm can come to them if they default. So that that's a very very basic part of cancer treatment. How has technology shifted and how much belief system um around tech uh has emerged today according to you. So it is creeping into all spaces but um you know now with AI and deep learning and all of that you cannot insulate yourself from what's happening there and um despite all that is happening I know uh where it plays a huge role is that it assists you in improving your ability to deliver
(47:55) >> because what I was doing in say an hour now with AI workflows and a lot of AI coming in it is possible to deliver the same in half the time. So you're saving on time because that rest of the time goes into patient care because >> because you know there is only finite amount of time.
(48:15) So I think that is very exciting because once your workflows are uh set you have got a lot of templates which can be generated >> with the help of AI. a lot of your um when the patient walks in a lot of the data that they are carrying can be made available to you even before you start the consult. >> So that's all a plus+ and I think um we have to slowly get used to uh AI assisting us in doing what we do and help us do it better.
(48:44) >> What about on the surgical side or precision uh you know surgical side or precision tech so to speak? >> Yes, of course. So so you know we do we use a lot of that. So uh Dr. Seikk does a lot of robotic work. I see >> um because you know gynecology you know that you do have a lot of uh space to incorporate robotics and in our situation so earlier you know if there are two lumps or three lumps in the breast the invariable uh conclusion would be that this patient has to have a mastctomy meaning a removal of the
(49:16) breast. But now with the support of imaging and the ability to uh uh you know precisely define the extent of tumor with the help of my radiologist I'm able to conserve a lot more breasts than I used to be earlier. Earlier it was to be always mastctomy but now we're able to conserve and also the ability to fill up these big spaces that you create by removing a larger part of the breast with enkoplasty.
(49:45) So all that is you know this is what technology has given us and a lot of times you know there could be cancers they the patient would have come with one cancer in the breast but with imaging you may actually pick up another one in the opposite breast >> which could have come back you know she would have completed treatment and then lo 6 months down the line she would the other side would have shown up and that is a very very uh you know self-defeating thing you would think oh I've just been through treatment and look I'm back to square one again and it
(50:13) is not easy to go through that treatment again because it is a tough treatment. >> So I think that is where technology kind of preempts a lot of things. >> Yeah. I know also that you know um things like imunotherapy and all of all that. >> So the basic aim now is to explain to the patient that cancer if you have cancer it is not the writing on the wall.
(50:36) >> Definitely not. with all these imunotherapies on all these various drugs and the advancement and all of that we try to change cancer into a chronic disease say like diabetes. >> Wow. >> So you take the medication and you carry on living. So that is what is the ultimate aim so that you know you don't lose your patient to cancer >> and so it's all very precise.
(51:02) It is very very individual. It is possible I envisage a time and say in the next decade or so >> when 10 beds of say breast cancer and each one would be getting a different treatment. >> Yeah. >> Because it is going to be completely individualized. Yeah. Personalized. >> Wow. You know, I just want to um conclude with two questions and I know I'm going to ask you to say a few things again because you can say this again and again as long as somebody out there can you know hear this and embibe one health habit, one check, one attitude shift
(51:36) that you think that women need to get and this needn't just be cancer. So the most important thing is that when you are prioritizing please put yourself as number one. >> Yeah. >> If you are number one believe me your whole family will be well and everyone will reach there. So if you put yourself at number 10 straight away you are jeopardizing yourself.
(52:07) You're jeopardizing your health and you're jeopardizing your family. Actually >> the ones you're trying to look after, you're actually [snorts] putting them on a back foot because you're not looking after yourself. Look after yourself. Dress well. Look at the mirror often. Be pretty. [laughter] Add lipstick. [gasps] >> Add that lipstick. Quite right.
(52:27) [laughter] >> Yes. >> So carrying from where Dr. Seikko finished, you know, you have to be body aware. Listen to your body and it does give you signals. It's not as if it does not. And even if it does not >> uh you know we are so busy buying a lot of gifts for Diwali. So I would say just gift a mamogram or just gift yourself a comprehensive health check and just take a day off and do these things every year and do your breast self-examination every month.
(52:59) Uh even if you are a 20 year old doesn't matter just you have to be body aware because that is where you're likely to pick up something which is going to save your life. Yeah, very nice. There was actually a actually an advertisement which was saying that um along with the dow you know give them a cvical cancer vaccine as well. >> So [laughter] yeah so it's a >> you know just want to ask you both how good are you with your own checks? >> So I've been so I will be honest I I not pretty not very good [laughter] but so I can tell you that my last mamogram was
(53:33) November of 2025 so I'm good. So uh so yeah so and uh yeah papsmear was another three years ago [laughter] >> fortunately was the first time I can say likewise >> otherwise you may disagree >> disagree [laughter] absolutely >> so I want to ask you so you know you've been talking about personalized care while one-on-one is so important I think many times the person sitting next to you or the groups that people can be part of become like the strength that you need uh how do you at uh you know at your case center look into this.
(54:10) >> So I've been a big believer of support groups. So I started the support group in 2007 when we were both in Rajiv Gandhi Cancer Institute >> and I was quite amazed at what I saw because I did not know it was going to turn out like that. It was supposed to be a 1-hour program and we had fixed five women to speak about their experience and once the five uh the first one started speaking the second ones but there were so many more who wanted to speak and earlier we were trying to get them to come over it were
(54:39) very difficult to get those five but once they started speaking everyone in the room wanted to speak so what started off as a 1-hour program finished in 2 and 1/2 hours and the energy in the room was quite amazing quite something so in Apollo Athena Also we have been carrying on the tradition.
(54:58) We do a support group every month and uh these are themed uh support groups. They could be we could be talking about uh the mental health issues. We could be talking about menopause. We could be talking about fertility. So uh there are a lot of uh areas that we touch on and we celebrate also. So recently we celebrated halit. So and women are happy to celebrate more more importantly the new ones who are having treatment when they see women who are also well turned out so confident >> all or and you know that relationship there is no comparison where someone
(55:35) who's been through the experience handles the one who has got been through a similar experience you cannot explain that love that flows so freely so I think support groups are a great way of telling women that you're going to be normal. So somebody asked me am I going to be normal? I said no not normal but better than normal.
(55:56) So >> so support group is a great tool to kind of bring these women together and trying to show them the future. >> And it's been 12 months of looking at patients at this care center. What do these patients tell you about the kind of care that they receive? So the message which I generally um send around to all these um women who are suffering or who have had cancer and I have seen that um it has actually happened like this that you are going to live longer than the other person who doesn't even look after themselves and I
(56:34) can remember at least three or four patients who have lost their husbands who didn't look after themselves. But these ladies are fine >> because of their constant checks and their uh you know constant investigations and constant um care that uh others are giving to them and they are giving to themselves and like what Gita said yes it's a different kind of sisterhood altogether.
(57:00) >> Yes. You know breast cancer fortunately has better survivors than gynecological cancers. Not only that unfortunately gynecological cancer somehow they carry a stigma whereas u breast cancer carries glamour. >> I mean one doesn't know how that has worked out but then that's how it is. I think it's been supported a lot in the west and and here by celebrities you know you have an Angela and Julie for breast cancer.
(57:32) You show me anybody who's getting up and saying oh I had cervical cancer or that I have >> stigma in there. >> Not only that uh the longevity of life is much lesser. It's a more severe cancer if I can say that. >> No. So that unfortunately is true. But uh nevertheless, it's important to um get them out in the open, get them to talk about it and um make them believe that they're as good as anybody else.
(58:00) And as we complete one year, what what comes to my mind is, you know, when we started off, you know, there are so many naysayers thinking, what the hell is this, you know, what is this women's cancer thing about? You know, >> and >> actual hostility, in fact. >> Yes. And they think that it is going to fail. So I don't see any of that that happening.
(58:20) This concept has really kind of caught on. There are so many women who come and say I think that comfort uh that caring that compassion that is the DNA of Athena is very visibly there and patients invariably come and say u touchwood they they say good things about uh the way they have been taken care of. It's not just about me because see we are all part of the same piece.
(58:47) Uh there are so many small pieces to the whole picture and I think each uh each piece has been very very vital to the way uh patients >> Yeah. Yeah. The jigsaw puzzle holds together. >> Yes. Absolutely. >> Absolutely. There's no doubt about that. >> Kudos to the two of you. >> Wonderful to have you both. Thank [laughter] you so much for joining me.
(59:05) Thank you for having >> Thank you for having us here. Thank you.
No comments:
Post a Comment