You Are NOT the Doer 😳 — The Truth That Ends All Suffering | Ramesh Balsekar

You Are NOT the Doer 😳 — The Truth That Ends All Suffering | Ramesh Balsekar

Author Name:Ramesh Balsekar Talks

Youtube Channel Url:https://www.youtube.com/@rameshbalsekartalks

Youtube Video URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoezRcjgbo8



Transcript:
(00:21) Yes. Ladies, okay. >> Yeah. Good. Uh, >> your name, please. I'm Elfie from Germany. >> Name it? >> Elfie. EFI. Yes. >> E FI. >> E L FI. >> LP. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. From Germany. >> Yeah. Right. >> Do you have a business or occupation in Germany? >> Uh, well, sort of. Yes. Right. >> So, what do you do in Germany? >> Well, I'm doing uh this handiccraft business.
(00:51) >> Handiccraft? I see. I see. >> I see. >> Well, it happened to me uh some traumatic experience. My son committed suicide 6 months ago. >> Yeah. >> And he was only 25 and which left me in um deep anguish. And >> I can understand that. >> And um with feelings of >> any any particular reason he did that? >> Well, he was um depressed.
(01:19) He got this um bipolar depression they call it in medical terms. I see. I see. >> And he was convinced that he was not ever um going to recover >> to reach happiness in this life and to reach a sense of well-being and >> so he decided to end his life. And so that left me in deep shock and anguish. And um so I'm searching for ways to get out of this traumatic experience and to get a reconciliation with.
(01:56) >> So after that experience, >> what did you do? Did you go and see some people or start reading some books? >> Um no, not particularly. I well I talked a lot with friends and uh tried to find out the reasons and um sort of get some answers why this had happened. >> Yeah. But still the answers are not completely satisfying and yes so why this had particularly happened to me and what was my responsibility in this and so I'm just uh wanting to know how to find some healing for this uh kind of affliction and to get one's faith in
(02:42) life restored again. >> Yes. How what what what brought you here? Somebody recommended that you >> one friend did you read some books? >> Um no exactly happening. >> No. Uh one friend recommended that um I come here and >> I he been here. >> Yes. Exactly. Yes. >> I see. >> I see. >> Well, sure.
(03:11) I have written some spir read some spiritual books also from >> I see >> different sources. >> Yes. Now most most important concept as far as I'm concerned about this about basically about life and death >> everything is already predetermined as soon as the destiny start. This is my concept and therefore whether the conception will ultimately end in a baby being born or the conception will be miscarried or aborted is something predestined.
(03:58) Nobody can know anything about it. Why? The only answer is because it simply had to happen according to God's will or cosmic law. You can either say think of God's will or cosmic law. Cosmic law is something which concern the entire universe for all time. Something so vast and so complex the human brain can never understand.
(04:32) And it is the basis of every according to God's will or law. That's why in the Christian religion, thy will be done. >> Ultimately, that is the only answer. So it's not easy to accept us but more everything happens either you can say according to God's will
(05:19) according to the law that is impersonal more easy to accept Therefore everything happens according to the basis of which we cannot know and therefore whatever happened we have to accept in a murder happened your name sir >> I'm Martin >> Martin >> what part of the world are you from >> I'm as well from Germany >> I'm Germany I see.
(05:58) What do you do in Germany? >> Oh, I mean oncological research. >> What research? >> Oncological cancer. >> I I >> cancer research. >> You're a doctor then? >> I'm not a doctor, but I'm I'm still in >> and you you have been interested in what I talk about for many years. Um I came across your books in summer last year and um I got enormous insight and there are still some aspects that are puzzling.
(06:27) So I see decided to come to Mumbai. >> You read my books in English or German? >> In English and in German >> and in German. I Okay. I just wanted so that when I talk I'll keep you in mind that you will also. So my the most in the usual example I give about what happens according to the cosmic law and which the human being mind cannot know and yet it happened all over the world in every country.
(07:00) A murder happens after that. What happens? What do you think can happen? What do you think can happen? >> I'm sorry. Your name you said is >> Elfie. >> LP. >> Yes. >> And you say >> Martin. >> Martin. >> What do you suppose can happen? A murder happens. >> Would you believe after the murder has happened four different things can happen? Murder means someone has killed another person.
(07:40) But four different things can happen concerning the murder. tends to death >> and the murderer is executed. >> Our simple mindset that is how life should always be. But life has never ever been so simple as that. Three other things have happened are recorded. Once the murder is never solved,
(08:26) the fire remains with the police. Murder is never solved and the murder goes caught free or sometimes the murder is shot. The murderer is caught, the murderer goes before the court and the judge and the jury decide. We know he is a murderer but not enough legal >> evidence >> valid evidence >> evidence. >> Therefore we are forced to let him go and do you know there is a possibility >> he might be innocent and >> that is the point. Therefore,
(09:13) these are three connected with the murder. But someone totally innocent never knowing who he could be convicted of murder because of coincident innocent man is sometimes punished for a murder he did not commit which the human being cannot accept. How can God be so unjust? See what I mean? Therefore, unless one is able to accept this basic fact, our brain cannot expl can satisfy the human
(10:02) according to God's will or cosmic law of which we can never understand if I'm able to accept that considerable suffering is about if I'm not able to accept this. Then what happened? Questions arise. Why did Hitler why did God create Hitler? People were supposed to lose their life according to the cosmic law
(10:51) and everybody has to lose his life sometime. So such question don't bother me or why should God create bin Hitler and the only answer is because the basis of the manifestation that we call life is duality beginning with male and female. In other words, my concept is oneness as the source.
(11:42) When the source manifested itself, it had to be duality beginning with male and female and duality of every conceivable kind. Therefore, male and female, beautiful and lovely, good and evil, wealth and poverty, health and disease is a necessary part of it. Therefore, the answer is why did God create Hitler? Because God also created Jesus Christ and St.
(12:24) Francis and the prophet Zosta and many many saints. Therefore there is a sane person there probably also had to be created. More important why does God create handicapped children? What harm have they done? answer it because God basic everything is predetermined.
(13:09) But the They have also accepted it everything they have arrived at on their own working. Therefore, we can take it that predetermined >> from the point of even conception. That's my point. Yes. >> But there's also the law of cause and effect. So it means to um every um effect there's a cause also. >> So that is a part for this effect to happen what was the cause we cannot know
(13:57) that is according to the cosmic law which is so vast and complex we simply cannot know. Quite right there. Not one cause and effect. So the my concept there is as soon as there was a big bang and the manifestation happened the entire causation started
(14:46) entire cause and effect started but specific to what we can never know but cause and effect yeah but the point We cannot know what causing you know the cause that can't really help you is more more important to know that it had to happen at that It had to happen at that time.
(15:35) My son died in India when my wife and I were in Seattle in the course of a series of talks. He was ill but he had been ill for quite some time. So we got the message in the middle of the night. Therefore, how long is going to predetermined the most most satisfying point about death from my point of view? The most
(16:23) satisfying point about death is that nobody dies. What dies is the body mind organism a threedimensional object dies object everything in the manifestation of each human body is created and every threedimensional object has get destroyed sometime or the But therefore, you see what I mean? Therefore, the
(17:14) basic fact that I'm concerned with basically there only two items LP and this body mind object. Romesh and this object and >> Martin >> Martin >> Martin Martin >> Martin >> Martin and Martin and this body only two Martin and this is my and her body and his body
(18:01) and his body. What exist? Just these two. So one is called the ego. The other is called an object. The object obviously is part of the manifestation. object. But she not Martin and every ego is not part of the manifestation. Every ego, every human being, every me,
(18:47) you, he and she cannot be a part of the manifestation. And therefore, every ego, every source, God, energy, consciousness, Whatever it entity is necessarily connected to the source of God is every human being
(19:38) told every human being is God. I am that basis of this. I am that creates a lot of confusion. If I am God, why should I suffer? Why don't I have more power? Therefore, I say the other way around. I take it you are not God. God is >> identified.
(20:24) So for each ego my basic concept is every source identified with each body mind organism as identified. Every ego is a consciousness but identified necessary necessary only so long as the ego is supposed to work with identification with a body mind organism. Normally
(21:14) we are concerned with our suffering who suffers the source doesn't suffer. Impersonal consciousness doesn't suffer but that me or she suffers because according to my according to my concept the connection between the ego and the source the connection between the ego as identified consciousness And the source of an impersonal consciousness gets broken.
(21:58) Every time the connection gets broken, human being is unhappy. When does the connection get broken? according to my concept every time I forget the fact that I am only a threedimensional object. Therefore, anything that happens through this threedimensional object must be precisely what is supposed to happen according to the will of the source or the source is functioning through this three-dimensional object and bringing about whatever is supposed to happen according to cosmic law.
(22:46) But when I think I have done something forgets the fact that he cannot be the doer. There is only an instrument through which the source functions and brings about and whatever the happening is however it hurts or help someone the impersonal consciousness the source working through me. >> Yes.
(23:29) >> Now if you have not an unbroken relationship but you experience physical pain you yourself. >> Yeah. How do you handle the physical pain knowing you're not connected with the source but still feeling um a pain? So therefore this is theory. What is the practice? What is practical daily living? >> There is a part of >> what is practical daily living practical daily living is extraordinarily simple.
(24:12) I'm not saying as far as the caveman is concerned, you psychopath now or anyone in the future. What is the mechanism of what we call daily living? Then we can talk. And the mechanism of daily living means Every one of us has the total freedom
(25:04) to do whatever one likes to do. Whatever. In other words, daily living begins. Then in a given situation, I decide what I want in that situation and what I shall do in order to get what I want and I do it. Daily living. Therefore, daily living begins with every human being. Before I had this understanding,
(25:52) what was my attitude to the work that to daily living? I have done this. I have done this. I am responsible for it. And brought in the suffering of the result. I have done this. I have been able to help someone. But Ramsh sometimes there is the the knowledge that I'm not responsible but I'm still suffering. >> Yes. So what I'm saying is therefore the
(26:38) suffering that you're talking about is the pain in the moment. The suffering we usually talk about means the pain in the moment. The pain in the moment may be physical or psychological. >> Pain if it is a disease, psychological if a son is dead. The the fact that a son is dead means psychological pain in the moment.
(27:15) And my point is nobody basic moment will bring pleasure or pain because of what I did or because of what someone else did or because of nobody does anything. It's a natural event which happens. So nobody knows whether the next moment will bring pleasure or pain. From the beginning of time, no one has known whether the next moment will bring
(28:01) pleasure or pain. to experience in one's life and that is predetermined. So the fact of life is senses which are a I can never know whether the next moment will bring pleasure or pain. I can never know the total amount of pleasure and pain I'm
(28:46) going to experience in my life. These are the two basic facts of life always nobody has any control and still we have to live our life. But where's the free will in that? There's no free will then if everything is predetermined. You know there's a book there small book and small right on the cover in small bracket I have said the answer will surprise you.
(29:26) that I want you to buy the book and read it. The answer will surprise you. What you just said, this is a fact. You see now talking about this free will for a moment. Free will my main point is And God was forced to give every human being the dubious gift of evil. Otherwise, daily living would not have
(30:10) happened. Human being has to have total free will in any given situation to do whatever he or she feels like doing moral, immoral, selfish, unselfish, legal, illegal. Thereafter what happens the mechanism of daily living there after mean action
(31:00) every daily living cannot happen number one number two nobody ever had any control over the result of his action what he wants everybody sometimes I've got what I wanted sometimes I have not got what I wanted and sometimes what I was beyond expectation many times for the worst sometimes for the better which of the three things No human being has ever had any control and there
(31:52) cannot know what I have done can only accept what has happened as my action. One of three things over which I have no control. You see the irony of it, the free one of the society in which I live considers what has happened as my action over which I have no control. judges it as good or bad according to the existing social regulation and legal provision as good or bad. Revolves me or punishes
(32:39) me. Reol from the society means pleasure. Punishment from the society means pain. And that is daily. >> In other words, what does it mean? It clearly means number one I do have total freedom number two it is impractical daily living is worthless but they are two separate facts I do have total but in practical terms it is worthless >> then I
(33:25) >> um I I I think I do fully understand and and agree uh to the to the free will concept that there is basically no free will. Um I I intuitively fully understand that. But what puzzles me >> what what do you really totally understand? >> Well, that it is an illusion. If I think I am doing something, it happens.
(33:49) uh it it's coming to my mind and and I am reacting and this is even quite nicely uh there had been an experience with a functional MRI where you can scan your head >> one button >> and um there was an experiment that you should push a red button or a green button. Now it is free will to push the red button and the green button >> and they found that the motoric areas in the brain >> half a second before the action happened.
(34:19) >> Yeah. >> 0.3 seconds before the action before you thought you had done it. >> I know that. >> I know that. Therefore, what I'm saying is I do have free will because unless I exist as my free will, daily living cannot happen. But the free will is worthless in practical living. And the free will is worthless also as a mechanism >> because it has been proved in the laboratory.
(35:00) >> Yeah. that I consider my decision in the brain half a second I would do it. Therefore, even technically it is not my little basis of what I consider my decision. And I came to the conclusion, the surprising conclusion that the basis of my free will is only two factors. No third factor. My genes and my up to date conditioning >> and your up to
(35:44) >> conditioning >> condition. >> I had no control over being born to particular parents. Therefore, I had no control over the genes in this human object. And since you have been doing, you must have done that reading about the modern research also about the power of the genes. But what puzzles me um again I fully understand uh and I would accept there is no free will basically but what puzzles me is the second conclusion you're you're taking and it is consequent um and it is that everything is predetermined.
(36:26) >> Yeah. And this is very hard for me to to to get because if I think yes everything is predetermined what effect would that have that would mean um well it's it doesn't it there is no drive for me to to do anything anymore. Um it is ridiculous what we are doing in society in uh imprisonment uh and and and in doing research etc.
(36:53) And that would be conditioning. That would be conditioning. >> But my my question is what makes you think that truly everything is determined? Can it not be? Well, put it differently. Um I'm very convinced that uh in the maximum point of instability uh that there is um u a very easy access of spiritual or energetic uh influences to counteract with material world.
(37:23) Chwanti wrote that uh uh with no that's a different story sorry um for instance with a with a butterfly and the wing of the butterfly generating a storm. So with small effects you can generate big momentum but and I I do understand this but does it really truly mean that all and everything is predetermined? Does it mean that every birth had been predetermined which of the million uh >> male uh seeds fertilized the egg? And this is something I find hard to it still puzzles me and I don't get over the point of that puzzling. Yeah, that's
(38:02) why I said this my concept. But for the physicist and the mathematician, they have worked it out and they have come to the conclusion. Everything is predetermined. You know, >> I I read Hawings. >> You read his essay. >> Is everything predetermined time? Yeah. >> Have you read his I've read it. Yeah. >> And what does he say in conclusion? He said is everything predetermined question it is yes full stop but so my point is either I can accept my concept or I can accept the
(38:47) calculation of a very very capable physicist and mathematics and yet say I don't believe it that is your privilege Martin predetermined your privilege of not accepting it is not going to change. If everything is predetermined but 500,000 people believe it >> and the rest don't believe it. >> Yeah, it puzzled me very extensively.
(39:26) >> Oh, I can imagine. The only solution I found so far is to just forget the question. >> The only conclusion I came to was just forget the question. >> That's >> it's no it's it's it's no point. But there would be immense practical relevance if I really truly uh >> could accept it. >> But so from practical point of view I I is my my concept.
(39:57) But when the the top physicians and mathematicians come to this concept, I must give some weight to it, >> I must give some weight to the scientific knowledge that exist. >> Yeah. But still it it is not proven. I mean it's a a speculation with with Hawkins and and he made that point very nicely. Yes, you can say that the new scientific knowledge will say that it is not predetermined and therefore there's theory of uncertainty.
(40:32) the theory of uncertainty. But for me, the theory of uncertainty proves that everything is predetermined >> because what is we cannot know. >> We see a particle in a particular situation but we cannot know after it will be. We cannot know but where it will be predetermined. Anyway, that's not so important.
(41:04) My point now here is I decided that in I do have total free will but is worthless in practice because I don't know. Then I decided to find out what is the basis of my previous >> and I came to only two genes and conditioning and more and more conditioning more and more and more research brings out how powerful this is.
(41:40) Everybody had known that many of the diseases can be traced to some gene. But the recent one brings out fantastic the three items I recently read in morning newspaper not in that sorry whether I am a gen I'm a generous person or I'm a >> is according to my genes >> more important whe I'm going to be faithful to my or not also depends on my genes.
(42:23) fact recently. And the third one I read only last week was that a child The genes just control over being born to particular parents and therefore no control over my genes >> which is such a powerful factor. There's another I have no control over being born to particular parents in a particular geographical
(43:10) environment. you in Germany, me and more important a particular social structure, upper class, upper middle class, lower middle class or low class in which geographical and social environment, this body mind organism received a bombardment of condition. A bombardment of condition from day one >> conditioning at home.
(43:43) >> The way my parents and other members of the family behave >> in the social in in social life, the way the social members of that society behaved in life. >> Mhm. The way the conditioning I received in a school and college in that relevant society >> conditioning in church of temple a bombardment of conditioning >> from day one this is good that is bad you must do this you must not do that this is socially acceptable that is socially not acceptable >> this is a sin and god will punish you >> see what I
(44:28) Therefore, whatever I think is my free will >> according to which I decide my next action on analysis it is found that it is based on two factors. My genes and my condition is more or less but conditioning keeps on changing all the time. Anything I read or hear or experience has the power to change my existing conditioning or even transform it.
(45:07) In fact, what is happening now is fresh conditioning. my concepts have done for me. Then it's up to you to judge whether you'll accept my concept or not. So that fresh conditioning is happening which can amend or alter your existing conditioning or even transform it. Therefore at any time whatever I have done is based on these two factors over which I had no control.
(45:47) Then I asked myself who did have control over these two factors only answer God was the source infused these two factors in this body mind instrument so that the source can function through this instrument and know exactly what will be brought about. So that meant quite clearly without the slightest doubt.
(46:22) Whatever I thought was my precisely what God expected me to do. Whatever I did was based on two factors which God mind instrument. Therefore, whatever I thought was my action was precisely what God expected me to do. More accurately, whatever I thought I had done was precisely what God has brought about mind. Therefore the mindboggling conclusion I came to whether the decides my action as good or
(47:07) bad which results in pleasure or pain which I have to accept but as far as I'm concerned it is not my commit a sin the mindboggling conclusion I came to I cannot commit a sin I don't have to fear God. If I don't have to fear God, nothing stops me from loving God. And not having to fear God, I don't have to lose nicely worrying about God collecting on a huge computer all the sins I commit.
(47:51) I cannot commit the sin. And more important, more important, the murderer cannot commit a sin. came the doer. God is the doer through this body through the entire load of sin and guilt was just removed. But the fact remains that I still have to live my
(48:38) life in the society which will continue to judge my action as my action and they will not accept my word. It's not my action they threaten to put me in an insane asylum. Therefore, I I don't have to fear God. But before I do my next action, I must think all over the result. Therefore, daily
(49:26) living there for me means I do have total fever but I have no I have no control over my result. Therefore, the conclusion is I do have total free will, but both in theory and practice, it is worthless. But that doesn't mean I have no free will. that it is not my free will which I
(50:14) borrowed from God. How do I how do I do my next action? Very simple. I do my next action as part of the mechanism of daily living as if I have free will knowing I don't have the resulting free will in any situation I do whatever I feel like doing and there no human being ever had any control over the result
(50:58) I sit back relax whatever is happening as a happening which had to happen according to condemning anybody for anything without any regrets about the past without any complaint complaints in the present. Why? Because I've already used my free will >> to do whatever I want. Having done it, how can I have any complaint and no expectations in the future which has resulted in what my basic concept has every human being
(51:44) in this life. So my focal point, my focal point is what does someone like us for reasonably comfortable in life for which we have to be eternally grateful to God. Millions of people are suffering below the poverty line. So my focal question is what does someone like us comfortable in life and having the common sense to know that
(52:29) while I have the total privilege to do whatever I want, I can never know what the next moment will bring, I cannot also know the total amount of pleasure and pain I have to experience in life. What does someone like us most in life as happiness? That is my focus question. I mean I brought this all in because we talking but the question of yes they let that in with me the ego.
(53:14) What is the ego? The ego is identified consciousness. Therefore, what it means is when the ego does something, it is the source functioning through this body mind through that connection with this body and bringing about whatever is happening. Therefore the ego the ego is a connected connection with the source only so that the source will function through this body mind organism and bring about whatever is supposed to
(54:00) happen. So what happens to the ego when the body is dead? That is what you should be concerned with my son or your son. When my son or your son is dead, what has happened? What has happened? That according to what is predetermined that that particular ego is no longer wanted in this functioning of the manifestation.
(54:40) That ego is no longer needed. Therefore, when the body is dead, the ego, the identified consciousness, identification is no longer necessary. And identified again becomes impersonal. Nobody dies. Neither my son, nor your son, neither me nor you. What happens is the connection which was necessary for things to happen through that instrument is no longer necessary.
(55:21) And the identified consciousness again becomes impersonal consciousness. Is only the body threedimensional object who is dead and is buried or cremated. No one can die because no one really existed except as an imaginary connection between the source and the object. So only that connection is no longer necessary.
(55:55) So fundamentally the ego is the body mind organism which the source has connected itself as a separate entity with a sense of personal doers so that daily living can happen as soon as he begin believe that any of his moment you have done my connection with the source gets broken. Therefore, every suffering
(56:43) is mechanically And that is the human unhappiness. And that is the unhappiness which I don't want. So that really what I'm wanting is not the h not the causes me pain, suffering. What do I want most? What I want more is not the suffering. Pleasure and pain nobody has any control. So now
(57:31) previously because I continue to feel that I did what I did and you did what you did. Every human being collects a load of guilt and shame for his own action which have hurt someone close to him or a bigger load of hatred for others end the happiness that every human being wants is in actual fact wanting this load of guilt and shame for
(58:20) my action and the heavier load of hatred for others to disappear. And the only way it can disappear, the only way it can disappear. That is my concept which I have to give you. The only way it can disappear is if I am enlighten the only way I can be happy is to be enlightened. So therefore what is enlightenment? For 40 years, I pursued enlightenment.
(59:08) I honestly didn't know why. But something made me seek enlightenment. I didn't choose to go to a guru and ask something. But I still have to question. What is the enlightenment I'm supposed to to pursue more important? What will enlightenment do for me for the rest of my life that I didn't have before? Isn't that the most valid practical question? See what I mean?
(59:53) >> I asked my guru and do you know what happened? He got very angry. How dare you ask you doubting that I'm enlightened when he saw that the others also wanted to know the answer and there were then he pulled down and then he gave no answer he gave me he said I know what enlightenment brings me because after I'm enlightened You will know after you are enlightened what what kind of an I can tell you
(1:00:43) that I am enlightened. Therefore what I'm telling you is I pursued enlightenment for 40 years and ended up thoroughly frustrated. I started on my own personal seeking. Seeking what? Seeking and pursuing the selfish object of personal happiness. I pursued my personal happiness and I ended up by being enlightened.
(1:01:25) Isn't that a joke? I repeat, I pursued enlightenment. Then I started pursuing happiness for myself in the given conditions of life and I came to the conclusion that the only way you pursuing happiness and I came to the conclusion which I now call my concept of enlightenment. Enlightenment is not something's concept of enlightenment
(1:02:13) which has given me this happiness. You see, I came to the conclusion I'm not happy because I carry a load of guilt and shame for my action and a bigger load of hatred for others have hurt me. And enlightenment mean of that load. Enlightenment means removal of that load of hatred for myself, for my action and the bigger load of hatred for others for their action.
(1:02:54) That's the conclusion I came to and therefore my concept of enlightenment has meant to me very clearly. Enlightenment means the total acceptance that everything in the world is happening according to God's will. How each happening affects whom for better or worse according to the basic duality is again according to God's will through which body mind instrument action your action or her
(1:03:44) according to God's will the human being is incapable of doing any ultimate happiness which I call enlightenment. What do you think was my reaction of being enlightened? My my reaction God how dare I dare I give my concept of enlightenment to anyone
(1:04:31) that no according to human being is incapable of doing anything that is the concept total accept enlightenment Would I dare give this concept to anyone? >> It's a wrong question. There is nobody to dare. >> No. What I'm saying is such a stupid. How can anyone not be the doer of his action? But that is a conclusion I came to.
(1:05:04) So I said I will not utter a whisper of it to anyone. But I pursued this. And having pursued this as far if I'm able to accept disappear the other cannot be the other load disappear. And when this load of hatred disappeared I found that the happiness I was seeking was peace of mind. Therefore the answer was what is enlightenment according to my acceptance everything is happening according to
(1:05:50) God's cosmic law through which body mind and how it affects whom is again according to God's cosmic law being capable of doing anything total acceptance of that is enlightenment and what will enlightenment do for you what the enlighten ment will do for you is to remove this law of hatred which will mean happiness through happiness through non happiness through peace of mind.
(1:06:26) The ultimate therefore my point is the ultimate happiness personal selfish happiness every human being is seeking is ultimately Happiness through peace of mind. But more importantly, the happiness everybody is seeking is the removal of this low >> of hatred for myself and hatred for the other. >> Then two lovely things happened.
(1:06:59) one I came to know that the concept which I have worked out and came to myself after a lot of misery were exactly the concept of the great Buddha later on I came to know the Buddha's concept about enlightenment in his own words events happen deeds are done consequences But there will enlightenment for me.
(1:07:40) Buddha is very accurate. He says enlightenment mean the end of suffering stops there. But I had already known what the suffering which ends the load of guilt and shame for my action. Lord of hed that is the suffering which ends for which I had given a positive name of happiness through peace of mind and the other satisfying I came to know that the ancient 3500 title for this happiness we are seeking instrument is exactly the
(1:08:27) happiness shanti. When I mentioned that all then everybody yes of course what people are seeking is yes we already knew that the hell didn't say so ultimately what everyone is seeking is a simple not being blessed not being special but simply happiness.
(1:09:16) There's a joke about this. Zen master Zen master will you take me as a disciple? Then the Zen master started talking 50 sentences. So he said this won't do. Your mind is too full of concept. You must go and stay in my monastery for 2 years. He thought he would give up. Yes. Yes. Yes. 2 years. He said yes. I'm I'm
(1:10:02) determined. I am determined to be enlightened. Yes. Einste I said all right tell me what you have to say only two words. So he thought and he said food bad >> food >> bad >> at the monastery. Two words, bad sent him back again. You still want to open. So two years later he comes back again.
(1:10:48) Two words. Bed hard. >> Another two years. >> Back again. Third time he comes. Two words. I'll quit. I don't want your enlightenment. So my point is the average Indian average Indian spiritual seeker never considers these two question. So I asked myself why should this be the position? Why should this be the position? And then I came to the conclusion
(1:11:33) that the reason that the Indian spiritual seeker sees no point in this question because he expects to be God. When I'm enlightened, I'll be God. When I go on anywhere, I shall have special power. I shall make no mistake. Therefore, nothing of that sort. So when they come, I said, "You think
(1:12:20) I'm enlightened?" They say, "Yes, I I tell them, yes, I agree. I am enlightened. But I must confess. I still suffer the same pain. I still make the same mistakes for the society punishes me. I have no extra powers. When I mention that you really should see the expression clearly what else is there not
(1:13:07) simply quiet negative peace of mind that's all you're going to I didn't stop at that. I didn't stop at that. I said I got peace of mind. Someone asked me, "What do you mean you have got peace of mind? What have you got?" I said, "Peace, what does peace of mind mean?" What would you say? We have got peace of mind.
(1:13:36) We have accepted that, haven't you? What you what do you mean by peace of mind? What would you tell him? >> It's the absence. >> How would he know that he has got peace of mind? You if I suffer from pain, would I still have peace of mind? >> If you done it correctly. Yes. >> So I so he will say I given you one example.
(1:14:10) If I have but all the time what does peace of mind mean? I'm telling you this >> just to show to the extent which I've gone into it that is why my experience has been there is no question which I' not been able to answer because I've asked that question myself you know the answer is peace of mind >> the answer is I'm never uncomfortable with myself I'm never uncomfortable with The other is someone close to me or a stranger uncomfortable with I'm never uncomfortable
(1:14:56) because I know I can't hurt him and he can't hurt me. May I ask a question? How can you overcome your conditioning if somebody approaches you and slaps you in the face? Now we all know we are conditioned and if I would be slapped in the face there would be a flash of anger. >> Very good question. >> I'm aware of it but still I can't avoid my conditioning.
(1:15:23) >> Yeah. Very good question. What will happen is precisely what is supposed to happen. >> Well according to my conditioning I >> No, no, no. Wait a minute. There's no question happening. If someone is not what you are asking me, >> I'm enlightened. >> No, >> I'm enlightened. >> I'm not asking what will you do.
(1:16:04) Um I'm I'm asking um if somebody slaps you, you will feel a reaction. You will not do anything. You will feel a reaction according to your conditioning. >> You're asking what will I do? >> Okay. All right. Mhm. >> You can't. That is your question. >> Okay. All right. >> I take it that you are enlightened and you confess that you are enlightened.
(1:16:27) >> Yeah. >> What happens if someone comes and slaps you? What is the answer? Martin accepted that I'm not the doer of any answer I don't know what will happen if someone comes with a dagger ready to stab you I take an even more extreme example If someone comes with a dagger to stab you right here,
(1:17:12) >> what will you do? My answer would be, I honestly do not know what will happen. My honest answer, I do not know what will happen. Two things could happen. I may back down and beg him please please don't kill me or I'll kick him in the balls I don't know what will happen that is my destiny predestined therefore another important point is
(1:18:01) what will you do the first reaction what you expect is if somebody I will be angry isn't that what you mean if someone comes to slap me or insults me your question is not what I will do what will be my reaction and my such is an important very important uh point The important point is if something happens to me then you are thinking in terms of what I would do how I would react.
(1:18:45) Isn't that right? How I would react and the most important point is that reaction which is bound to happen the reaction will be there. That reaction I'm convinced will not be my reaction, not the ego's reaction. No, no, no. Not the ego's reaction, but the biological reaction in the body mind organism based on genes and conditioning on genes and conditioning.
(1:19:24) The Buddha someone came and insulted him. He didn't responding. There was no response. In an ordinary person a similar slapsi could arise
(1:20:12) I see something on the TV I But that is happening on the anger would arise, horror would arise as a biological reaction in the body mind organism which I would witness arising in a body mind organism which happens to be mine at that moment. at another time angle may not arise. >> But would it not be desirable um being an enlightened person that you gradually try to change your conditioning so that you experience less
(1:20:58) and less ar um um um frustration and and and and pain in that respect? I I know the answer but uh >> what is the answer? >> The answer is um it's not in your will because it happens as it happens. No, your question is based on what will you do? >> See, but but that is exactly the point. >> Put a specific question.
(1:21:29) Put a specific question to me. Don't worry about my feelings. >> Um >> put a specific question to me. >> If you're sitting on your own >> Yeah. >> Uh reflecting um on your being and on the world >> Yeah. Would you >> I'm sorry. >> If if you're just sitting on sitting on your own silently reflecting on yourself and on the world, would you come to the the conclusion it would be desirable? >> When you're thinking >> to change your conditioning? >> No.
(1:22:02) No. That can cannot happen for one reason. There is nothing desirable that I could want. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because whatever is to happen is going to happen. >> This wanting something is expectation >> and all expectation has stopped with the total understanding. >> Expectation means inviting frustration. >> Full point. >> That is the point.
(1:22:33) You see, therefore the doing has stopped but the happening cannot stop. >> Yeah. >> That is my point. Yeah, >> has stopped but cannot stop and happen >> in this body mind or very good point. Therefore I must elaborate. The usual example I give is four foreigners come and get in a car. They go around Bombay. The car stops at a traffic signal in Bombay and the usual experience four or five beggar boys comes around the car put them and beg for money.
(1:23:14) That is the situation. Four people in the car. The reactions can be four different reactions to the same situation being seen by four different people. and the respective ego will have no control over that. Therefore, in one body mind organism anger may arise in another fear may arise
(1:24:00) the young lady. Now this is only 2:00 in the afternoon. If it were late and not three or four people, fear could arise. In another disgust could arise and in the fourth compassion arise in my country these boys would have been receiving education in a school. Here they have to come and beg money for food.
(1:24:30) compassion, anger, fear, disgust or compassion. The ego concern has no connection. Who would you say the man of the one in compassion? I say no. This could be anyone of the other three witnessing witnessing four different reactions arising in four different body mind organisms
(1:25:14) without blaming anyone or admiring anyone. The ego is not concerned. >> You see the ego is not concerned. >> Very helpful. Therefore very important point. Therefore the man of understanding witnesses a biologate man. An important point. Very important. Okay. Now, yes sir, please.
(1:26:05) You have any question? >> Not so. >> So again, my point here is your son can die, you can't die. Only thing that happens is when the body mind object when the when the human the body is there then all that happens is that the connection with the source is no longer needed and the identified consciousness again becomes impersonal consciousness.
(1:26:38) No human being can die only the object can die. the identification losses. >> But why should it be no longer needed if it is still young? >> But look at it this way. Suppose suppose >> it had not un suppose your son had was to have cancer after next year. What then? Nobody knows what is going to happen in future.
(1:27:16) So if that is so your son has been saved the misery and torment of cancer. Isn't that right? Therefore what happens in why should we think the future as a glorious future which your son has missed. >> He died so young. He was very happy and very bright. >> He was he had so much success in future, so much happiness.
(1:27:48) >> But it could be the other way around. >> M also >> it could be the other way around. >> Well, he was suffering. He got relieved from his suffering. >> That is the point. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> He was released from his existing suffering >> and he was released from his future suffering. M >> that is the only way to look at it.
(1:28:12) >> Okay. >> Well, I have been looking at it like this but still the hurt is there. >> Yeah. Naturally because that pain is still there. >> Pain cannot go away. >> But surely it's only 6 months now isn't it? >> Yeah. But your experience will be that the pain arises only when there is a memory arises >> and everybody's experience everybody since beginning of time >> over a period as time elapses the arising of the memory will become less frequent.
(1:28:51) The arising of the memory will be less frequent and the intensity of the grief will also become less and less and quite soon you'll be speaking about your son's death to many people quite easily as if it was happening. That is the healing of time. >> This has happened for hundreds of years. M >> okay. >> Yes sir.
(1:29:26) >> Please and I can maybe give them all to you and we can work through them. Uh the first one I'd like for you to explain the sentence >> I am that. The second question that comes up is uh came up yesterday when you were explaining and I do believe somewhere in there I understand but uh would like for you to really specify it.
(1:29:58) What is the difference between pain and suffering? And isn't pain in the moment usually enough to bring you out of happiness or does one reach a point where the peace and happiness remains even though that the body is in pain? So now give me a specific question. What is a specific question? Let's go step by step.
(1:30:19) What is your question? >> I understand how we spend so much of our lives in the pursuit of pleasure because it supposedly feels better than pain does. >> No. >> Yeah. >> That everybody would pursue pleasure rather than pain is self evident. >> Okay. So why is it that pain is different from suffering? Why is it that pain in itself, how can one experience pain without losing happiness? How can one experience pain and not suffer? >> When the pain is there, you suffer the pain.
(1:31:06) >> Mhm. But the suffering But that gets restricted to your pain. But if you if you at the same time you think that the pain that you are suffering because of something you did which you should not have done. >> So that load that of guilt goes away. that pain becomes much more intensified. I brought it on this myself.
(1:31:46) There was no need for me to do it. I did something which I should not have done. And that is what has brought the pain. Your pain then becomes suffering. Your pain then gets transferred into suffering. That is the difference between pain and suffering. Pain happens. But the memory thinking about what you could quite easily have done to avoid that pain is the suffering.
(1:32:31) That is the difference between pain and suffering. Okay, next question. >> I am that. >> I am that simply means Who or what is two perspectives each one perspective I can only be a threedimensional object this body
(1:33:19) can only be a threedimensional object one of the objects in the billions of object to manifestation. This is a threedimensional object. Therefore, I am a threedimensional object is one perspective. The other perspective is that I can do what I like. The body can't do anything. I am able to do whatever I want. Therefore, I am the energy functioning through this body
(1:34:09) and bringing about whatever I want to do. Therefore, one perspective on the three dimension. The other is I am the fundamental basic energy capable of functioning through this three-dimensional object. Therefore, I am the fundamental basic energy which is God which is that on the one side you can function through a threedimensional object bringing about whatever is supposed to happen from that point of
(1:34:54) view. I am that and that everyone can say the same thing. Either I'm a threedimensional object or I'm that energy basic fundamental energy the soul of God functioning through every human being two perspectives and therefore the Ip was I accept there's no doubt that object cannot function. Therefore, every human being able to function in
(1:35:41) life has to be in fundamentally in principle that which is the source which is God or whatever I call it. So I am that, you are that, he is that, she is that, I accept. But knowing that does not tell me how I am to live my life in interhuman, intergo relationship, in daily living and be happy. So the way you explain it now is done
(1:36:27) more to create that happiness. >> Therefore I told you I for 40 years I pursued enlightenment ended up in frustration for this reason. Therefore after retirement I started thinking about it and pursuing something personally. I decided it has to sh I shall pursue happiness for myself. Therefore, I repeat, I pursued
(1:37:19) enlightenment for 40 years, ended up in frustration. How did you know that you had reached it when you were pursuing happiness? Once you reached happiness, how did you know it was enlightenment? For one reason alone. I got what I wanted. When I was pursuing enlightenment, I didn't know what I wanted. >> Mhm. >> I didn't know what enlightenment was.
(1:38:00) >> So you can say enlightenment is happiness. Happiness isn't. >> Yes. Therefore, the ultimate happiness which I got was only through total acceptance of a concept which I call enlightenment. The happiness that I wanted through the acceptance of a particular concept, nothing else. And therefore I call that concept enlightenment.
(1:38:37) I repeat the happiness that I was seeking. >> Mhm. >> I got only through the total acceptance of a concept. Therefore I call that concept enlightenment. >> And you're always happy. Even in pain, even in anger, you're still happy. I am at peace. Happiness through peace of mind. Happiness not through pleasure. Happiness through peace of mind.
(1:39:18) Not happiness through pleasure. Happiness through peace of mind. Suk shanti. Not suk through pleasure. Uh this is you know as you probably remember this is the one place I always get stuck is I am that I am the energy. I am personalized con uh personalized consciousness. >> So are you and he and he and she >> everybody.
(1:39:54) So then how can my actions not matter? There is see this three-dimensional object can't move this arm. I can move this arm. Now that I can move this arm, I can use it to slap her or I can use it for other purpose. >> And that >> Yes. >> And that is the ego with a sense of personal do. >> True. Okay. >> And that is why the ego is unhappy.
(1:40:18) >> True. But the ego also has the mechanism of control at this point point in time of that life force that's running through to some extent. Ego I don't know that's >> the ego is the impersonal consciousness of the soul identified with a particular body mind organism which means every body mind organism is connected to the source and that connection is the ego.
(1:40:52) >> Mhm. Every body mind organism is connected to the source. >> Yeah. >> So that an ego has been created >> so that daily living as ego relationship should happen. So this ego this ego thinks he is the doer of his action and therefore every time he does something and takes credit or blame someone >> the connection with the source >> is broken >> gets broken and he becomes an independent entity with power to do anything I
(1:41:38) Oh, >> and therefore becomes unhappy when the realization happens. I seem to be doing something. >> Mhm. >> But really there's nothing in my control. I have total free will. But that free will is worthless in theory and practice. Therefore, am I really doing anything or whatever I think I have been doing was happening happening through this body, mind because it was supposed to happen.
(1:42:14) Then the connection is again established. But any time again you think you have done some connection that's broken. But once I've been able to accept totally no human being can be a doer of any action. I can't be a doer of any action. I can't hurt you and you can't hurt me. Nobody is a then that connection with the soul is never broken and the ego has peace of mind.
(1:42:48) that the ego is very much necessary to function in daily living. >> Indeed, that was my problem. >> Okay. So, the ego is very >> that was my problem. >> The ego is very much necessary to function in daily living. >> Yeah. >> And to some extent be effective in daily living >> some all extent >> to be effective in daily living.
(1:43:10) >> Okay. But the moment the ego continues to think that he is the doer of action, he unhappy. >> True. No, he knows that the life is flowing. See, I mean, in one sense, when the source really cuts you off, then it's finished, isn't it? >> See that again. >> When the source truly cuts you off, when the breath stops, this ego is completely useless.
(1:43:37) >> The source cannot cut you off. source cuts you off only when the body is dead. >> That's what I meant. >> So when you're dead, you there's a question. >> There's no qu but then No, but you mentioned that if you begin to believe that you are the doer of these actions, you're getting cut off from the source.
(1:43:58) >> No, the connection gets broken because then you're on your own as an independent doer. But the connection once broken >> then the realization happens >> that I'm not the doer. I simply cannot be the doer. Then the connection gets reestablished and thereafter as long as you live the connection never gets broken.
(1:44:28) The connection never being broken means sukasanti happiness through peace of mind. You know, we had spoken, I think it was a year or two ago about how what you were saying was not going into my heart and I thought and pondered on that a lot or you know the pondering and the thinking of that happened a lot and this is the one bit that actually I have can completely sit in my heart and I'd like you to help me work through that or maybe this is the acceptance that I need and that would be fine for which is the following.
(1:45:07) I am that the energy that flows through me is God or whatever else. >> You are merely repeating a concept. Mostly repeating 100. How deep is it? >> Is it only in the mind or in the heart? >> Well, that's my Let me finish please. >> All right. Go ahead. So I am that
(1:45:54) >> go ahead. >> Without the life force I can do nothing. But when the life force is present there is a certain navigation ability for the ones who are going purely by conditioning and not choosing to any extent. Yes, they're living in a sense of being unconscious. If you are consciously choosing, you know, as as a soul, as a life, I choose this versus that, aren't you, as that ego navigating the life force in a direction that ultimately was determined by the life force itself? >> So, what is your question?
(1:46:42) My question is that I can accept I accept non-doership but I have >> but that is the point that precisely is the point I accept but and that but is the difference of the distance between this and that. that but is the difference between this and this. So what this is where the butt lies. The butt lies in it's hard to believe that my actions have no probabilistic effect
(1:47:28) on this planet. >> Yes. >> No probabilistic effect. >> That is the birth. >> That is the birth. So how do we still think this is your doing. You are the doer. And so the next question is >> how do we melt it? >> What does a poor have to do to make it? Isn't that it? What does a purva have to do? >> That's >> to make it.
(1:48:02) >> Well, I know the answer to the question. But the whole point is never ever the doer of the simplest. That is the whole point. That is the whole the whole basis of the but that is the whole basis of the but therefore the ultimate point comes in the ultimate question even a damn fool will accept a concept of nondoship which takes away the entire load of hatred from from my actions which have hurt people. A bigger load of hatred for
(1:48:49) others have hurt me. Even a damn fool will accept this concept of nondoship. But the concept cannot work until the acceptance is the pride of doers. But the pride of those question never therefore it will happen only if it is supposed to happen. It will not happen
(1:49:35) unless it is not supposed to happen. And you want to know what happens when it goes to your heart. How will you know whether it has reached your heart or not? Is that your question? How will you know that it has reached your heart? First, the intellectual pride will have disappeared. Humility will arise. The humility will turn into tears in your eyes.
(1:50:12) Tears in your eyes will represent the gratitude for this wonderful happiness. who has brought about this tremendous personal experience. There was nothing I would not do for my guru. And that is a standard. And that is why in the Hindu terminology when this happened when the mind from the mind it goes to the heart. There are two things which happen.
(1:50:59) Gratitude. Gratitude towards the guru which takes the form of sav and dhms good enough whether he needs it or not where I was concerned with my guru he needed To that extent my happiness was doubled. So what I did was by way of service after the end of the talk I would take
(1:51:43) him in a car or a taxi take him around for half an hour. We'll have a cup of tea or coffee or milk or buttermilk. Bring him back. Then I would ask him does he have any shopping to do? Would he like to go elsewhere somewhere? If he did, I would take him, help him do his shopping and bring him back for which he was grateful.
(1:52:11) And whenever possible, I would give him a gift of money, a donation, which for me was big enough, but for him it was enormous. The first time I did that, I remember distinctly happened to be his birthday and I could see people bringing small amounts of money and he would thank you very much put it in his pocket.
(1:52:47) I went 10 minutes early the next morning gave him an envelope which contained a,000 rupees a,000 rupees 30 years ago not 20 years ago was a large amount >> 50,000 now >> sorry >> 50,000 now >> easily I tell you though when I retired from the bank my salary was 5,000 rupees is my servant here in house servant got a job in the bank as a pe and after about 25 years he retired
(1:53:31) so he came to meet me once so almost as a joke I asked him shanka what is your salary now somewhere around 5,000 rupees And he said something like that. So I had the shock. So the salary I had retired on after 10 15 years was what the p was getting after 25 years of service. But at that time but what happened was I offered him the envelope.
(1:54:11) He looked at the envelope, didn't put it in his pocket and say, "Thank you very much." He kept it aside and said, "Look, after the talk, don't go away as usual. I want to talk to you." So after he said, "Pic, I know what you're thinking. What you're thinking is this man has just retired from bank service and the bank has no no facility of pension.
(1:54:44) He has to rely on his own savings. Can he afford to give me this? And I assure you, my children are well settled. I can afford to give you this and I would like to do it as often as I can. He looked me in my eyes just to make sure I was because he was aware that this urge to give can be so powerful as to make make anyone do foolish things.
(1:55:15) So he did so he wanted to be sure that I was not giving something beyond my means. So I satisfied him. He looked me in the eye was sure that I was very and he said thank you very much. So when it happened to me when he said to my heart there were no buts and this is what happened. I did my best.
(1:55:46) I whatever I and then I came to know that these are the traditional and for terms. Sava means service to the guru. Dhana means donation to the guru and both these things happen. I repeat both these things happen. >> Noi but we were speaking here. Having heard this, if some millionaire decides to take me around, I don't need it. >> You don't like going anywhere.
(1:56:20) >> So, so if some millionaire could give me $100,000 $100, he doesn't have to think that is from his heart. The issue I feel >> in other words what I'm saying is the need to give is independent of the need to receive. Therefore I make it clear I have known I'm more than comfortable. I'm perfect. I don't need either money
(1:57:06) or service. But this is the need to receive is not there. But it has nothing to do with the need to get. But that is what makes the difference between the head and the heart. And even that there's nothing you can do about it. It can only happen if it is supposed to happen. >> Yes, Roger. I I feel more than doership.
(1:57:43) My issue is a feeling of responsibility. and responsibility. I think it's my responsibility to do it. I do it or I do whatever needs to be done with the total acceptance that seems like my doing is a happening which had to happen through this body or anything. >> Yes. But you are personalized consciousness.
(1:58:24) So whatever arises in you as what consciousness should do you go ahead and do. That is what I call total free will which is the very basis of daily living >> and it does make some impact on the world around you >> which God was forced to give to every human being. >> True. And whatever the humans free will is however it is exercised makes a difference to the world around him or her.
(1:58:53) >> So what? So what? So with that comes responsibility. >> All right. So what? All right. Responsibility comes. No human being can live in this world without a sense of responsibility. Free will go with the responsibility. So what? >> So then how can you say I cannot sin? >> I cannot sin because I cannot do anything which is considered a sin.
(1:59:26) Well, there is >> I cannot do anything which is considered a sin or a merit. People are not worried about committing merit. People are concerned about committing sins. And what I'm telling everybody, you don't have to worry about committing a sin. You cannot commit a sin. Whatever you have done is God's doing but you are steering that little ship.
(1:59:59) This particular little piece of consciousness is being steered somehow by this ego mechanism. Is it not? Frankly haven't understood your question. What is your question? This particular droplet in the ocean, this identified body, mind organism, this identified consciousness is in some way being stirred steered through by the ego.
(2:00:34) The ego is being steered by the source. >> Okay, fine. Let me get >> All right, fine. I >> The ego is being steered by the source. The source is doing whatever is happening organism is action. That is the whole point. That is the whole point. Okay. Anyway, when your thinking stops, then you'll know some progress is being made.
(2:01:20) monkey. So that Nobody I
(2:02:14) need my heart in the Happy. They have
(2:03:34) so Heat. Heat. Oh, now Z
(2:04:31) I Thank you. You're welcome.