Are Successful People Broken? Dark Traits, AI Evolution & Loneliness | Dr. K | FO481 Raj Shamani

Are Successful People Broken? Dark Traits, AI Evolution & Loneliness | Dr. K | FO481 Raj Shamani

Author Name:Raj Shamani

Youtube Channel Url:https://www.youtube.com/@rajshamani

Youtube Video URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R878NxqapRA



Transcript:
(00:00) Indian parents, they force their kids to choose a certain kind of career and they constantly keep comparing them to others. >> Do you feel it's good or bad? >> It's good and bad. Every parent messes up their child. But the cool thing is at some point you become an adult and at some point you [music] get to determine what kind of life you want to live.
(00:19) And evolution does not select for happiness, it selects for survival. [music] >> Parents who mess up more, there are enough researches that their kids develop dark traits and those traits are usually seen in successful people as well. >> Do you think dark traits are proportionate to the amount of wealth somebody will accumulate in their life? >> There are some situations where absolutely you can make an argument that sociopathy and narcissism will help people become successful, but that doesn't mean that the average sociopath
(00:46) or narcissist is doing well. So I don't think you need to be an >> There's a loneliness epidemic and that's one of the reasons why they're facing a lot of mental health problems. What's the fix? >> The first is that if you can control yourself, you can get really far. A lot of people think that they need to drastically change their life.
(01:05) They don't need to drastically change their life. They need to minimally change their life. So I think the fix is to start with you. >> Why there's this all of a sudden pressure, including me? I want this fast, I want this now and before even the life has started, most of us feel like we've failed in this. >> 70% of people in their 20s are going through like a quarter-life crisis.
(01:26) They've been trying to start it and they've been failing. You said that you know, you feel like you want things faster. Hmm. What's the problem with slow? >> When you can get fast, why do you want it slow? >> You know, sometimes people will do something called sex. >> Why go slow when you can go fast? >> [laughter] >> Everyone who's accomplished, from the top billionaires to the athletes, they've been wounded, that's why they're there.
(01:51) >> Honestly, the thing is that they're broken in the right way. It gave you like, I'm a proof, I'm never going to be that again. I'm going to show the world. >> [music] >> Negative emotions are the most powerful motivators. That's why everyone wants to get rid of them because usually they motivate us in a way that we're not happy with.
(02:10) This is what I mean about being broken in the right way. Moment you become content, you're going to start shrinking. >> And you said technology is affecting us, making things horrible right now. >> If we look at the influence of technology and we're seeing all kinds of suffering as a result of this. Some people were seeing a rise of body dysmorphia, especially in men.
(02:28) So, everyone's getting cosmetic surgery. We're also seeing an epidemic of loneliness. Our world is changing and it is affecting us profoundly and I don't think the system can protect us. We have to protect ourselves. >> But at the same time, a lot of people are becoming way more accomplished than they were just because of democratizing of technology.
(02:49) What's happening? >> We're in a phase of natural [music] selection. Natural selection is when there's a lot of organisms and some event happens. And if the organisms are not adapted to their environment, they die out or don't reproduce. So, we're literally seeing that today. AI is a good example of this. And then the second thing is that even if people are doing better, it doesn't mean that they're doing mentally better.
(03:11) You can look at a lot of the world's most successful people and you can kind of tell just based on their social media presence these people are not happy. Some of them are using tons of drugs. >> All around the world, Indian leadership is killing it right now. What's happening? Before you start watching this episode, please subscribe us because the more you subscribe us, the better and more valuable guests we'll be able to get for you.
(03:40) Our today's guest is a man who has decoded the most complex machine on earth, the human brain. He's Harvard trained psychiatrist and a former monk who's dedicated his career to helping people master their minds. I'm talking about Dr. K. the man who teaches you how to win when everything is going against you. He's a founder of HealthyGamer, reaching over 5 million people to solve the exact problems we're discussing today.
(04:04) Like why parents push for survival instead of happiness, whether you actually need toxic traits to win in this competitive world, and how the most successful people are often just running away from their oldest wounds. And when you're building your brain for high performance, you need tools that can keep up with you.
(04:24) And that's why professionals use the ASUS ExpertBook P series. It's up to 25% faster than standard business machines, and with high performance H series processors and cooling that can handle the heaviest workloads without breaking. They have a call center from 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. Monday to Saturday, and on-site warranty across 15,500 pin codes.
(04:50) The ASUS ExpertBook P series is designed to give you a seamless, reliable experience. Watch this episode till the end, and to know more about the ASUS ExpertBook P series, check out the Flipkart link in the description. >> [music] >> People know you a lot, but for let's say 0.01% people who have no idea who you are, and they're watching you for the first time, what do you do? >> This is super cool.
(05:17) So, we don't This is great. What I like about this, I want to just appreciate something. So, I I I know I I don't know too much about you. Um and I know a little bit about you, but I'm starting to really appreciate who you are in this moment and how intentional you are, right? So, how how you've crafted this conversation already. Love it.
(05:38) >> Thank you. >> [laughter] >> Um Okay, so you you asked for the I'm well-known, who am I? Um Yeah, so you know, I tried to tell this to your staff. [laughter] Your staff is amazing. So, I like open the door and everyone starts clapping and and I was telling, you know, one of my work colleagues is here with me and I was like, I've yet to figure out how to respond to that.
(06:01) Like, what's the appropriate thing? I'm like, you know, do I bow or do I be like, yes, yes, yes, I'm going to eat you now. [laughter] Like So, so I I think the weird thing is I'm I'm like an ordinary person. And some people will say that out of like, you know, cuz if you don't say that, then you're like arrogant.
(06:18) And some people will say it out of like false humility. There's almost like this ego, which is something that I struggled with of like, you know, I'm ordinary. >> Mhm. >> But I I think my whole thing is that I I I think people will look at me and I'm accomplished in certain ways. We can talk about that in a second.
(06:33) But my whole thing is like, I didn't know how to live life. >> Okay. >> Like, no one taught me like how to live life. So, like I went to school and people teach you like mathematics and biology, but like I I couldn't get out of bed to go to class. Like that that was my basic problem. I played video games for 20 hours a day and I liked video games. I still like video games.
(06:51) I still play video games, but I couldn't get myself to stop. So, I was just like a human being who was like being carried by my body and my mind through life in a way that I really did not enjoy, but I couldn't stop it. And then I went to India. Um, I spent 7 years studying to become a monk. So, I wanted to do psychiatry.
(07:11) I was a little bit not thrilled about it because it was like not a real doctor. I told my mom, who's also a doctor, um, and like my grandmother and like, don't be a psychiatrist, you'll go crazy. >> [laughter] >> What did your dad say? >> My dad had passed away. So, my dad passed away, um, Yeah, my dad passed away in, uh, my first year of medical school.
(07:34) >> Okay. >> So, um, but I'm pretty sure I I imagine he may have discouraged me. I'm not sure, but um, so then I a psychiatrist and then a a couple years into my training um I I I asked my mentors like what do you all think about video game addiction? It's something I had struggled with. This is back in 2015. So I was kind of doing that and then I was like but my people are like the gamers, they're like the 25-year-old dudes who are living in their mom's basement.
(08:07) They're basically me and no one's helping them. Like like no one. No one even knows that they exist. Right? So I started streaming on Twitch and I remember like the conversation with my wife was like hey, I want to like start streaming on Twitch and then she was kind of mad at me sort of because we had two kids at home.
(08:27) So I had like maybe a 3-year-old and a 1-year-old. And so it's kind of hard. She's getting her MBA. And I like decided to do this thing on like nights [laughter] and weekends. So it's like I'm going to finish work at 6:00 and then I'm going to start streaming and I'm going to do like a a a lecture on mental health on Twitch to gamers and try to teach them like about depression and anxiety and pornography addiction and you know, how to talk to girls and developing confidence cuz these are like my people.
(08:51) These are the people that are left behind. And so I'm I'm grateful to this day because she was like okay with that. Um and she's now CEO of HealthyGamer which is the company that we started and is my boss. So she's been like really been awesomely supportive. Um and so I started helping these people and then like something weird happened.
(09:11) So I had done some some, you know, analysis and I was like okay, my goal is to have 100 viewers concurrent live viewers in 1 year. Okay. So if I have five viewers at the end of a month, that's success. 20 viewers by the end of six months, that's success. And 100 viewers by the end of 1 year, that would be success.
(09:31) And I just did an analysis, right? So like data analysis, okay, what is the average Twitch viewer get? Um and then something weird happened. We started getting like tons of viewers. And And for a couple of months we were the fastest growing on stream on Twitch. Um, and and we I just tapped into like people are really struggling.
(09:51) And then the pandemic hit. And then then it was like not. So I I built this private practice and it'd been professionally like >> Mhm. >> used to be very successful. I know it's weird to say because now I'm arguably I'm still successful. But then like so did all this work to build up this practice and and then left.
(10:07) And then left my teaching position at Harvard and all that kind of stuff. Um, and that's who I am. So now what I try to do is I realize that people need help. >> Mhm. >> But they need help in a way that I don't think psychiatry is sufficient to provide. And that's not psychiatry's fault. It's just like I was sitting in my office and was just like there's just so many people that need help.
(10:33) There's no way that like I will be able to get to any significant number. If we look at the influence of technology, technology is shaping us. It's shaping millions, billions. Every person on the planet is being shaped. So therapists working 1 hour a week is not going to work. Um, so what we need to do is start using technology to like teach people how to take care of themselves.
(10:59) Because technology is coming for you. It's already here. And it's already affecting you. And we're seeing all kinds of suffering as a result of this. And it's not like you can remove the technology. And this is where things get a little bit complicated. But you know, some people we're seeing a rise of body dysmorphia, especially in men.
(11:16) So you know, we're all talking about equality between men and women. One of the saddest levels of equality we're seeing is addiction used to be a male disease. Body dysmorphia and eating disorders used to be a female disease. Now those those are evening out. So more women have addictions. More men have body dysmorphia.
(11:34) Um, you know, all these dudes are like uh like a lot of people from the states. I had a patient um who was a a student at Harvard who, you know, traveled to India to get leg-lengthening surgery. So, they like break his shins, they insert metal rods so that he can be taller so that he's like more successful on dating apps. People are getting mandibular surgery.
(11:57) Um you know, I saw something scary about if you look at Hollywood actresses, they all look the same now. If [snorts] you look like 20 years ago, like actresses looked different. They don't look different anymore. So, everyone's getting cosmetic surgery. So, something is changing in our minds. We're also seeing an epidemic of loneliness, highest rates of addiction.
(12:17) This is really scary. Um erectile dysfunction used to be an old man's disease. Now, it's a young man's disease. So, the rate of erectile dysfunction may be as high as 20%. It used to be about five under the age of 30. So, dudes aren't like one out of five dudes under the age of 30 has erectile dysfunction. So, we're like our world is changing and it is affecting us profoundly and I don't think I mean I don't know if the system can protect us.
(12:48) I don't know if governments can protect us. I don't know if psychiatrists can protect us. We have to protect ourselves. >> Yeah. >> So, the work that I try to do is to try to equip people with the knowledge of like how do you survive what's coming. And the only way that I know how to do that is to understand yourself, like understand be an expert in you, in your mind, in your body, in your biology, in your physiology, in your psychology, in your neuroscience, in your spirituality.
(13:18) Um and if you do that, then you've got a fighting chance. Otherwise, you're screwed. >> But you said you used to study and work with accomplished people and performance psychology. Then you ended up working with a lot of creators and people and gamers and probably ultra successful gamers as well. And then you work with people who are almost broken and not able to come out of the rut that they are in.
(13:39) Like there's there's a bunch of things. And you said that technology is affecting us and is making things horrible right now. But at the same time a lot of people are becoming way more accomplished than they were. And there are more number of successful people than there were there ever was, right? Because just because of democratizing of technology, different measure of success.
(14:05) There are more people who are achievers today than we ever had in the world. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> So, what's happening? Why are few people in the same world becoming really really successful and there are more achievers versus there are people who are just getting like really really bad and they're getting terrible at what they do.
(14:25) >> It's a great question. So, I think the answer to that question is a bit complicated and it has to do with this word success. >> Mhm. >> So, I still work with super successful people. I work with humans. >> Mhm. >> And if you look at So, I'm I would ask you like how do you define success? Right? When you say there's more successful people than there's ever been.
(14:49) How do you define that? >> I would just be like there are more games and then in those more games more people are winning and everybody is just rewarding them. Earlier like look at India, for example. You would be considered success if you have made insane money or you have well done really well in cricket or politics in Bollywood, nothing else.
(15:09) But now there are so many alter fields if you have just have little amount of ranking in that game, you are considered success. >> Okay. So, this is what's really exciting. So, like you know, it's interesting because some people will think technology's effect is bad. >> Mhm. >> But, like, I started this company called HealthyGamer.
(15:29) It's not and I struggled with video game addiction. But, my whole thing is, like, technology isn't shouldn't be removed. We have to learn how to use it. It's a tool. >> Mhm. >> The problem is it's affecting us in ways that we don't realize. >> Okay. >> So, what I see is, you know, I I I'll just give you an example of a patient. So, someone who is very successful.
(15:46) Um a man in his mid-40s was in investment banking, moved to private equity. Has done billion-dollar deals that, if you read the Wall Street Journal, did acquisitions for Fang companies and things like that. So, he's like as successful as you can get. Married, has kids, never divorced. And he's like suicidal. Has a noose in his basement.
(16:08) Thinks about killing himself every single day. >> Why? >> Exactly. So, here's the key thing to understand. You can be successful in some dimension, right? You can look at people like Robin Williams or like um you know, there's You can look at there are some stories, which if you're clinically familiar, I'm not going to comment in in specifics, but you can look at a lot of the world's most successful people by measure of net worth or or the positions they hold and things like that, and you can kind of tell, just based on their social media presence,
(16:38) these people are not happy. >> Yeah. >> Some of them are using tons of drugs. And the question is, why? Right? So, so, you're sort of saying, and I completely agree with you that there's been a democratization of tools. Like, the reason I'm here today is because I mean, I trained in something that's not this. I just started showing up on the internet and like opened my mouth and like that turned into a thing.
(17:02) That wasn't possible 100 years ago or even five years 20 years ago, 30 years ago, right? And so, there's absolutely a democratization. There's absolutely an increased capacity for an individual human being to achieve material success. Completely agree. But, the reason that I don't really differentiate between a CEO and a homeless person, I worked in jails, I worked, you know, I'll work with anybody, cuz the fundamental human is the same.
(17:28) And for some people they think that material success will bring me happiness, and there's plenty of evidence of that. I think one of the sad things is that there's a mental health crisis, and I think that really is an economic crisis. 50% of people under the age of 30 still live at home with their parents in the United States. It's different in India.
(17:46) But in the US you're supposed to move out at the age of 18 or 22. That's how you become independent and and things like that. So we're starting to see low rates of home ownership in the US. We're seeing, you know, people living at home. We're seeing median income is not keeping up with inflation.
(18:03) We're seeing a loneliness epidemic. Birth rates are falling. So there's absolutely like economically like some people are doing well. So one of the scary things I'll talk a little bit about is like we're in a phase of natural selection. >> Okay. What do you mean by that? >> So natural selection is when there's a lot of organisms and some event happens.
(18:26) And if the organisms are not adapted to their environment, they die out or don't reproduce. So we're literally seeing that today. Where there's a lot of people, you may have heard of this term incel. You familiar with that? So this is someone who's involuntarily celibate. These are people who literally will not pass their genes on.
(18:43) >> Yeah. >> They're not able to find a mate. They're not able to procreate. So there's like literally a natural selection event happening to where these people, those genes will leave our gene pool forever. They'll kind of die out. So technology is this thing that some people have learned to take advantage of.
(19:00) Some people have not learned to take advantage of. Some people have used technology to take advantage of other people. Right? So on the one hand AI is a good example of this, gives us the opportunity to do so much more work. But it's also knocking a lot of people out of employment. >> Yeah. >> So, there's this weird dichotomy going on. That's absolutely true.
(19:22) I don't think technology is bad. We need to learn how to live with it. And then the second thing is that even if people are doing better, it doesn't mean that they're doing mentally better. Right? So, you'll see that a lot of people who are very successful will still struggle in certain ways. Um you know, there's weird things I run across.
(19:40) Like a good example of this is like you know, you podcaster dudes, which I guess I fall into. You know, how old are you, Raj, if you don't mind me >> 29. >> Okay. Are you married? >> No, not yet. >> Okay. Is that challenging for you? Like I'm curious. Is that >> Yeah. >> Yeah, right? So, so like this is like you're really successful.
(19:57) People don't realize that it make I won't ask you more. I can see it's making you uncomfortable. >> okay. You can ask me. I'm I'm pretty open about it. >> So, so like you know, all you podcast bros, like none of y'all are married. >> [snorts] [laughter] >> Have you noticed that? Yeah. And then it's like, "OH MY GOD. RIGHT?" >> DUDE, YEAH.
(20:16) >> None of y'all >> [laughter] >> You're successful, but like and here's the there's a problem that people don't realize, which is like once you become successful, who are they marrying? Are they marrying Raj Shamani, who's like this entrepreneur who's like, "Oh my god, is that who they're marrying?" Or they marrying like that guy who screwed up when he was like 8 years old? You know, like the like who are they marrying now? Are they marrying the identity? Are they marrying the social media titan? Are they marrying
(20:46) like the human? And cuz you're going to be attracting a lot of I don't know if you're you know, what your preferences, but you you're attracting you're going to attract all kinds of women. A lot of women who are going to be looking to date you and things like that. And so it becomes scary.
(21:02) Like people don't realize that like I'm sure you have good friends and stuff, but a lot of y'all are lonely. You know? Right? And it's weird. People don't see that. And so human beings are not one thing. They're not homogeneous. So you can have success in one dimension and you can struggle in others. And one of the scariest things is that everyone thinks success is like one thing, right? So like now that you're successful, you have it all.
(21:27) And then you're not allowed to complain. >> Mhm. >> Right? >> Yeah. >> Certainly not. You're going to get canceled. >> Yeah. >> And this guy is ungrateful. And so like, you know, now and and there's a certain sense to that, I think. But like don't be confused for a moment that you can have you can be good at one thing and you can struggle at something else.
(21:44) It doesn't make your life easy. The nature of like happiness and contentment is not external things and there's tons of evidence for that. I've worked with so many people in banking and finance and content creators. So happy when you get your million subscribers, right? 100,000 subscribers, you get your whatever your bronze YouTube plaque.
(22:03) Then you get your million subscribers, then you get your silver YouTube plaque. And then you want your gold one. And so there's like you can always move the goal posts. Oh, you want this promotion, you want this promotion. You get it. And then are you content for the rest of your life? Absolutely not. Now you need more. Now you need more.
(22:18) So this is where like I think it's great because some of those mechanisms in our brain ambition, for lack of a better word, they are they help us achieve success, but they don't help us achieve achieve happiness. And sometimes they lock you in in a very dangerous way. Um I see I saw this a lot when I was faculty at Harvard where you know, so a lot of these kids like I I I had a friend who was at Harvard Law School and I asked him, you know, what's your first year like? And he's like, it's terrible.
(22:50) >> Mhm. >> And I was like, that's weird. >> Why? >> And he said that one of the worst things they asked him the same question, why? He said one of the worst things that you can do is take a bunch of kids who used to be the smartest in the class and make them average. Happens overnight. And now suddenly you're average.
(23:07) You're below average. There is a kid who's at the bottom of the class at Harvard Law School. What do you think it's like to be in the mind of that kid? He's the stupidest kid in the class. And this is Harvard. So, when he sees other smart kids, like we're talking about like the smartest kid in that class is brilliant on a completely different level.
(23:27) Like I remember when I was an intern, I was in the in the coffee line, line to get coffee at 4:00 and one of my co-interns was with me and like you know we were on a rotation together. He was an intern and I was a doc. I was just talking to him. I was like, "Yeah, I have a patient with this.
(23:41) " And he started quoting all these studies. I was like, "You're an intern and you know all this stuff." I was blown away by how brilliant this guy is. And so there's there's it's not as simple as success is happiness. And so a lot of the work that I try to do is like help people understand that. >> But then what's going on in the mind of people? Um See, we are dealt with the same cards, the same sort of world.
(24:08) Sort of right now. I'm not talking about past. >> Yeah, okay. >> Right? You, me, somebody's watching this. We are dealing with the same technology, same kind of stuff. >> In minds of let's say you and me, we are thinking of this as an advantage. I maybe I'm not happy, maybe I'm not content, and I'm perpetually discontent in some sort of way, but I'm looking at this as an opportunity and I'm trying to take an advantage of it.
(24:32) And at the same time somebody who's probably my age, same kind of financial background, same kind of city he comes from or she comes from, that person's thinking that this is just they're losing hope, they're getting more terrible about it, they're just comparing and internalizing that maybe this is not working out at all. What's happening in both of our minds? Because one sees this as an opportunity, because we We realize at later what will be the price.
(24:58) But today I see it an opportunity. I don't think that maybe this is wrong. But somebody else sees it as completely bad and they're losing hope. What's going on? Like why are we differently wired? >> Um I'm happy to answer, but what do you think? So you strike me as a thinker. >> Mhm. >> You think about stuff, right, Raj? >> Yeah. >> What do you think? Like that question comes from somewhere.
(25:24) Like y'all are dealt the same hand of cards. Why do you see it as an opportunity and they see it as doom? >> I don't know. It It I think it can come from the family background. >> Sure. >> Because in my family I've always seen people at least my father no matter what situation he was in, whether it was complete devastation, he was broke and fired at the workplace, and he was not able to even make a penny.
(25:56) He would still see that as an opportunity to start new and maybe build a better life. So I've always seen that. Maybe that has carried with me. That's the only rational >> Absolutely. So your problem is that you started off with an incorrect statement. Everyone's dealt the same hand of cards. No, they're not.
(26:13) >> Mhm. >> The world is the same. But your life experiences, your genetics, the way that your mind works, if you believe in this stuff, your sun scars, and even karma, and like this other weird kind of stuff. Right? And the reason that I kind of mention that is that the variance that you see between people must be explainable in some way, right? So you can explain some of the variance with genetics.
(26:41) You can explain some of the variance with upbringing. You can explain some of the variance with personality, but personality is a combination of genetics and upbringing to a certain degree. The reason I believe in the other weird is that I do a better job of helping people because those those variables are not enough to explain the variance.
(27:01) So, I had a patient once who lost a leg because they were standing on a curb and a car swiveled, like you know, a car just just moved 1 ft. They were driving at the edge of this 1 ft. Hit Hit this person's leg. Just standing on a curb. Everyone does it every day. Lost a leg. Gone forever. Was an athlete, college athlete.
(27:20) Career, very promising, suddenly gone. What did they do wrong? They didn't do anything wrong. I had another patient. This is kind of sad. Um was at a party on the third-floor balcony. Third floor US, so second floor for y'all. And got drunk, jumped from the balcony to the pool didn't make it to the pool, hit the ground, paralyzed from the neck down.
(27:45) Both of these people in college both athletes, both promising careers. One of them made a huge mistake, the other one did not. Right? And so, how do you explain this variance? So, for me explaining all of the variance that accounts for individual difference, sure, we all live in the same world but we're not the same people.
(28:10) We're not We don't have the same circumstances. We don't have the same advantages. So, you know, just to share a little bit about myself kids fell out of college every day. >> Yeah. >> Not all of them have parents who are both doctors who can send them to India to spend 7 years studying to become a monk, who have parents who can afford their tickets.
(28:29) I don't have to pay my rent. I don't have to get a job. I have parents who can support me in this spiritual journey. That's part of the reason that, you know, I started streaming on Twitch because it's like I was done. Except my circumstances made it so that I got a second chance, third chance, fourth chance, fifth chance.
(28:48) Right? So, I I think that when we look at what's different between you and another person, that's what I find exciting is like, let's get into that. >> Mhm. >> Right? Why do you see the world as doomed? Why can't you see it Raj's way? Which is what >> [laughter] >> And then the other the other really cool thing is that it's not like one of you is right and one of you is wrong.
(29:07) >> Yeah. >> You know, and it's statistics statistically speaking, Raj, you're probably wrong. Cuz people are getting screwed all over the world. So, if you see it as an opportunity, like the majority of data suggests that it's not an opportunity. In some dimensions, things are getting better. Most dimensions.
(29:27) But like a lot of people are like they're kind of they're kind of messed up. Like, you know, not things are not looking bright. 70 There's a one study on LinkedIn that found that 70% of people in their 20s are going through like a quarter-life crisis. Right? So, like this is like >> life hasn't even started? This is what I don't understand these days.
(29:47) >> Yeah. Well, yeah, life hasn't started, but they've been trying to start it and they've been failing. >> Why there's this all of a sudden pressure, including me, I even have even have this pressure. Like, I want this fast, I want this now, and before even the life has started, most of us feel like we've failed in this.
(30:10) >> Yeah. >> Why this has come down to Earlier, people used to feel that in maybe 40s. >> Yeah, exactly. We used to have mid-life crisis. Now we have quarter-life crisis. We're getting better, faster. >> [laughter] >> We're getting faster, so we're doing it. >> Why do you think it has reduced? >> Okay, so you said that, you know, you feel like you want things faster.
(30:30) Where does that idea come from? So, when you have an idea in the mind, right? So, it's your mind that tells you to do it faster, right? >> Where does that come from? >> I want to achieve something very fast. It's just That's what the idea is. >> Mhm. >> Where did you get the idea to achieve in the first place? >> Because I was never an achiever in my childhood.
(30:54) >> Okay, good. >> So all my So all my cousins and all my siblings who are at the same age >> Okay. >> they all were like toppers. They were like achievers. All my friends were like great sports people and I was like none of them. >> Yeah. >> So I thought and the moment I got something in which I'm probably a little good at I want to do it at a level that I'm world best.
(31:14) Like I and I want to do it fast because I was never the achiever so now I finally get a sense of achievement so I want to achieve everything fast. >> What's What's the problem with slow? >> I've never asked this question. Why when you again get fast, why do you want it slow? >> You know, sometimes people will do something called sex. >> Mhm.
(31:36) >> Why go slow when you can go fast? [laughter] >> [laughter] >> RIGHT? >> WOW. IF I SAY THAT I'M enjoying that then you're going to say aren't you enjoying this and then >> And maybe. But don't don't don't don't do that. Good. Good. You're a clever guy. But like let's think about it, right? So like like Oh man, like let's So so when I was growing up we used to go on vacation.
(32:03) And we would go you know, my dad was like okay, we're going to go we're going to see all the places. >> Yeah. >> So we're going to like wake up at 4:00 in the morning in the car for 3 hours. We see this place, take pictures, hop in the car, go to the next place, see pictures. And then what vacation was we'd spend a lot of time in the car.
(32:19) And then taking pictures. Right? Is that But now I've seen all these places. >> Mhm. >> I have pictures from all these places. Is that better? >> No. >> What? Yeah, so you tell me where is the idea of faster coming from? What happens when you're done? So you want to do it fast, right? If you can do it, which means that it can be done.
(32:42) So let's say you do it all fast, then what? >> I don't know. >> Weird, right? [laughter] >> Yeah, I don't know. >> Okay, so there's there a couple things to understand. Tell me Tell me a a particular memory because I'm sure you've got them. You said that all of your cousins were toppers, but there's got to be like a couple that stick out.
(33:05) >> Mhm. >> Right? So I'll tell you like one is an example. So I had a a friend in high school who was at the top of our class and and so she did this like accelerated medical program. She's amazing human being and I remember like many years later I was talking to her and I was like, "Oh, so what are you up to now?" And I hadn't seen her in many years and she's like, "Oh, I'm you know, I'm I'm a doctor now.
(33:29) " And she's like, "What are you up to?" And I was like, "I'm applying to medical school." We're the same age. We used to sit next to each other. She's done. I'm trying to start. Right? And that's what why people get suicidal. It's It's not that It's that life is being denied to them. I'm trying, but it's getting harder.
(33:47) Back in my day, you know, so I used to say like I applied to 140 jobs and then I finally got my first job. Today 140 is what people do in a week. You know? Like that used to be like a big number. Now it's like you do that in a week. People will apply for thousands of jobs. So there must be a time in your life where there was like a particular moment where you like you one of your cousins did something and then you felt like I'm not like that.
(34:20) You know what I mean? >> Yeah, yeah. Can you share that? Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Tell me. >> That is This is a moment right after the report card. I think this is my ninth or 10th class. I don't the exact class, but somewhere around that. Um there were like three of my cousins, probably same age. And they were like they came like one, two, and three.
(34:42) Like first, second, third in the class. And then the entire family was just talking to them and trying to Nobody said anything to me. Like I still have that. But yeah. They didn't say that, "Oh, you're bad or you're this." And nothing. But then nobody said anything to me. >> Yeah. >> There was no appreciation, no recognition, nothing.
(35:01) It just Everybody was just talking about these three people. And that's it. And we live in a joint family in a joint family. And everybody was just concerned about them. And how are they keeping up? And how can they console the third one that it's okay to come third and second? [laughter] So, it was almost like Like how are they consoling person who came third? Like you know that Yeah, so I I have this in memory where I I was just left out.
(35:29) Like I was unnoticed. >> Yeah. So, this is what's really scary about that. So, I first of all, I think the people who watch this podcast will feel that. Like I get the hair on my head on my arms is like standing up. I'm getting goosebumps hearing that story. We talk about like trauma is like bad things, right? So, like I've had patients who've been physically abused and sexually abused, but like to be invisible.
(35:56) >> Yeah. >> Right? And And people are I'm glad you mentioned that they consoled number three because So, you know, you'd think that people would be happy to be number three, right? [laughter] But So, here's the scary thing. No one in that situation is happy. Not even number one. >> Yeah. >> Right? So, number one is like, "Yeah, I got number one today.
(36:18) " But number two's right there. I don't want to be number two next time. So, this is what's really scary is like everyone's like, "Okay, I want to be number one." Number one is a scary place. Because then you have to say number one. So it's like it's like you're screwed if you're number one. >> Mhm. >> You're screwed if you're number two.
(36:33) You're screwed if you're number three. You're getting consolation out of upper day. >> Hi hi, you are doing okay. >> Yeah. >> And then you're just off in the corner everyone's ignoring you. Let me ask you something Raj. Is anyone ignoring you now? Hell no. >> No. No, but >> Never. Never again.
(36:52) You're not going to be that kid ever again. How many How many millions of subscribers do you have on YouTube again? Tell me. >> Uh 13 14 I guess. >> Yeah. No one's ignoring you now. You fixed that problem. And I'm sure you've done a lot of work. I can tell. Right? So you're really positive and everything is an opportunity and and things like good But like deep down, I don't know that that wound is gone.
(37:18) I don't think it is. Now you want to do faster because there's like a wound in you that you're trying to fill up. You're trying to make that go away. That's still a part of you. And you're like it's 14 million hasn't made it go away. So now I need to get to 30 million and 40 million and 50 million and faster and faster and faster because 13 million hasn't been enough. It's not enough.
(37:38) So cuz you're tired of it, right? You don't want to You don't ever want to be that kid again. >> Yeah, I don't want to be invisible again. >> You're never going to be invisible again. So but you're kind of in trouble. >> Mhm. >> Right? People won't You're not allowed to say it. We're not allowed to say it. But I think people will understand once they hear you that that you had that story.
(37:56) People have been invisible. You know? People have been ignored. People have been like looking at like why are they consoling number three? [laughter] I'm number 57. Like what's going on? Right? Right? >> [laughter] >> So so I think I think so many people don't get the help that they need when they need it. >> Mhm.
(38:15) Do you think every everyone who is accomplished who you have spoken to or if observed from the top billionaires to the athletes they've been wounded that's why they're there. >> Not all of them, but I would say that the best thing, you know, my wife keeps on telling me like you need to make a video about cuz you work with all these people like what separates them? >> Yeah.
(38:38) >> And honestly the thing is that they're broken in the right way. >> Explain. >> You're broken in the right way because the wound that you got did not give you doom. It gave you like I'm approved. I'm never going to be that again. It's going to be ambition. I'm going to show the world. You're 29 years old. Dude, I'm 43.
(38:58) I have like 3 million subscribers. >> [laughter] >> Right? Oh my god. And you're 29. Right? So so you were broken in a way that's like pretty lucky and like most of the people that I work with were also broken in a way that's like pretty lucky. Not all of them. A lot of them like there a lot of successful people, but then they don't end up in my office.
(39:20) Right? >> [laughter] >> Then why can't And I'll tell you based on all the people I've spoken on podcast and myself. Right? I'm happy. It's not that I'm like sad. Like I'm really happy. >> Yeah, I know. >> It's content. Like I'm not satisfied with this thing, right? >> Well, I mean shouldn't you be celebrating? I don't know.
(39:43) So let's understand So let's talk about why that happens. >> Yeah, okay. >> So first thing to understand is when you talk about sad, is that a bad thing? Is being sad bad? >> For me it's always helped me, so not for me. >> Ah, very good. Right? So here's the first thing to understand. What percentage of human beings So I'm talking to you now, okay? So I'm going to go into teacher mode cuz I'm teaching.
(40:12) >> Okay. >> What percentage of human beings on the planet have the capacity to feel sad. Almost everybody, everybody, every single human on the planet can be sad, right? >> Yeah. >> What percentage of human beings can be afraid? >> Everybody. >> What percentage of human beings have the capacity to lose hope? >> Everybody.
(40:34) >> Anger? >> Everyone. >> So, we say these things are bad, right? Like being angry, sad, shame, fear. These are the I want joy. I want excitement. I want fun, humor, freedom. We want all this stuff, but the first thing to understand, we've evolved for negative emotions. >> Yeah. >> Even reptiles can feel angry.
(40:57) It's not clear whether they can feel sad or not. So, first thing to understand is that negative emotions are not negative. Negative emotions are probably the most powerful motivators we have from a scientific standpoint. So, everyone's like, "Cultivate joy and curiosity." You know, no, don't do that.
(41:15) If you want to be successful, be like you, be tortured. You want to know why you are where you are at your age and I am where I am at I my age, and the difference between us is I went to India and I became content, and you didn't. Right? So, I learned about how to be content, and then I made the terrible, the stupid professional decision to learn how to be content.
(41:41) >> [snorts] >> And it's been an absolute I'm the only podcast bro that's married. >> [laughter] >> With kids. Isn't that great? >> I love it. >> Yeah, that's good. >> You poor guys. >> [laughter] >> Right? And and so so this is important to understand. Negative emotions are the most powerful motivators.
(42:01) That's why everyone wants to get rid of them, because usually they motivate us in a way that we're not happy with. This is what I mean about being broken in the right way. So, when you feel insufficient, when you feel invisible, you're the lucky person because the way you're going to deal with that is you're going to be visible.
(42:21) You're going to show them. Right? But some people are unlucky because when they're invisible, they accept it. They're more spiritually developed than you are and they learn acceptance. Okay, now I'm going to be then they be there they they become resigned. Right? So maybe the influence of your father is important here because they didn't have the modeling.
(42:41) So I you know, I've been working with someone recently who it's really hard because they have taught themselves and this is happening really a lot. They've taught themselves how to stop wanting. Because when they want, they get disappointed. So there is an adaptation that protects them from disappointment.
(43:02) You don't want to be disappointed, right Raj? No one wants to be disappointed. So the mind teaches us this really interesting thing, which is it stops wanting. It gives up. It resigns itself. Right? There's no point. And if I don't try, I can never fail. Right? So I used to do this all the time where I would self-sabotage.
(43:23) Because if I gave it my all and I was number two or number 10, anything less than number one is not good enough, right? >> Yeah. >> So number two, number 10 or a heaven forbid I got a B and I tried my hardest, then I'm stupid. >> Yeah. >> But as long as I'm don't give it my best shot, then oh, I'm lazy but I'm brilliant.
(43:44) I'm one of these brilliant people. I'm cursed with laziness. But I get some preservation of my ego there, right? So like as long as I self-sabotage myself, there's always the possibility of being the best. I just need to figure out how to do motivation and build the right habits and eat the right things.
(44:01) And if I can figure out everything out, then I'm going to be number one. But I don't ever really want to test myself. Does that kind of make sense? >> Yeah, it does. >> So, a couple of things to understand. One is that negative emotions are very powerful motivators. Then we people like you get into this trap where your negative motivation like I asked you is sad bad? And then so everyone was like, oh yeah, I've been invisible too.
(44:26) Then you said sad isn't bad, sad is good. That's where everyone most people are going to be left behind. Right? Cuz for them sad is bad. But you realize that okay, sad is my motivation. Now you're stuck. You're screwed, bro. Because [snorts] if you stop being sad right? Why aren't you content? If I offered you contentment, you wouldn't even take it.
(44:45) >> True. >> Sad becomes your fuel. Insecurity becomes your fuel. >> True. >> So, there's even great science behind this. Like so if you look at medical students they're very highly neurotic. So, neurotic means they have a tendency to worry. And so when you and I are chilling, or maybe not you, when I'm chilling.
(45:06) >> [laughter] >> You know, like I'm chilling on a Friday >> Yeah. >> and medical students are at the library because they're afraid they're going to fail even though they're already at the top of the class. So, like our negative emotions are incredibly powerful motivators. And if you struggle with negative emotion, you know that, right? You know how hard it is to do the opposite of what the negative emotion is telling you.
(45:31) I can be excited. Hey Raj, I have this dream. I'm going to write a screenplay one day. I'm so excited. I'm so curious. Eh, I'll watch some Netflix. That's easy to do. But when my fear and my anxiety is saying, oh my god, these people don't like you. Don't leave the house. Everyone thinks you're pathetic.
(45:48) You're num- you're third in the class. You're a loser. It's hard to overcome that. It's hard to overcome sadness. And then a lot of people who are really successful, what they do is they reinforce this mechanism. Because this is the mechanism that's responsible for their success. So, the moment you become content, you're going to start shrinking.
(46:07) Someone's going to This is This is going to be really scary for you, right? Like, you know what's worse? When you stop moving up every year. >> Mhm. >> Cuz you're going to be higher than 76, right? Yeah, absolutely. But, one year, someone else is going to start growing faster than you are. And then then >> [laughter] >> you can give me a call.
(46:27) What Once you really lost, then we'll teach you how to be happy. Cuz at that point, it's kind of game over anyway. >> But, this is so true, what you just pointed out in middle of things like insecurity is my fuel. >> Mhm. I have genuinely never forget being able to I've never even tried. >> Of course not. >> To to feel secure.
(46:53) >> Yeah. >> Like, I I love being inferior, insecure, because then that is like, somewhat my feeling and I Yeah. The moment I outgrow a room, I stop hanging out there because I feel a little powerful and I'm like, uh-uh. I want to be insecure amongst the sharks and I still want to be the small fish so that >> Yeah.
(47:13) >> some kind of joy in in killing that insecurity and becoming a better person then. >> There's joy in killing it, but you keep wanting it. Right? So, let's understand how that works. So, what you're doing is trying to solve that wound >> Mhm. >> of the invisibility. >> Mhm. >> You're trying to like make up for the past with the pre- And that's I don't know if that makes sense.
(47:33) Does that make sense? Yeah. Right? So, so you're like in that it's kind of weird, but like you're kind of There was a hole that was dug in you like 20 years ago, and you're trying to fill it today. But, it doesn't work. And then you're also attached to it because now you're like, okay, well, this Like, those guys were number one, two, and three.
(47:55) How How million subscribers do they have now, Raj, Right? And so now now you're you're stuck. You're really like you're you're in a tough spot, bro. Cuz now it's like either you choose contentment or success. >> Yeah. Not your success. >> You have and you will, right? The sad thing is that you don't have to choose between the two. You can get both.
(48:16) But >> So the day I I'll call you. [laughter] >> [gasps] >> Let let's take this conversation towards the the rise of Indians and the fall of it as well. Like the two things because you're an Indian in US. >> Yeah. >> Right? There are two things which are happening right now. I'll talk about the I'll ask you about positive and why it's happening and then I'll ask you about the negative as well.
(48:39) >> Okay. >> Right? All around the world, Indian leadership is killing it right now. >> Yeah. >> Like there's somehow somewhere something is happening for us which is right that almost every large company has an Indian leader. So Indian people are just liking Indian talent. On an average, the highest number of uh average income for an ethnicity which is the highest in America is also of Indians, right? >> Yeah.
(49:07) >> So Indians earn the highest in America. Indians are leading all around the world. What's happening? Why all of a sudden Indian CEOs have some level of advantage that they're able to lead those companies at top? >> So a quick story. So I walked into my orientation at Harvard Medical School and like 30 to 40% of the room was Indian >> [snorts] >> or South Asian.
(49:32) 30 to 40% of the room was East Asian. >> Mhm. >> And then the other third was like everything else. >> Yeah. >> And I was like, this is insane. >> Yeah. [laughter] This is insane. >> I I sat between two desis. Um so there's absolutely something going on. So if something is going on, there must be you know, a scientific you could do something like a logistic regression analysis and try to figure out.
(49:55) I think we have a lot of advantages. So, I think that one thing is that there's like a selection bias. Indians aren't the only ones, but I think you can look at like Nigerians as another example that people don't they're kind of people are sleeping on, but so I think the there's a lot of brain drain, right? So, if you look at like my parents were both doctors.
(50:13) Um and so I grew up with certain financial advantages where like I could afford to apply to medical school for three I didn't I didn't get accepted to medical school school for 2 years. I applied 120 times, got accepted finally with number 120. But just if you look at the amount of money it takes to do that to survive for 3 years and just keep applying to medical school.
(50:37) Like not many people can do that. >> Yeah. >> So, I think one of the reason that you see so many successful Indians in America is because they just have financial advantages. Right? So, like like who goes to like all of my kids' friends, their parents like who came from India like all went to IIT. >> Mhm. >> Right? So, there's there's just a real financial advantage.
(50:57) >> Yeah. >> I think there's also a cultural advantage. So, you know, my dad was like poor. Like like you know, he his parents were in debt. My grandmother would tell me stories about how this is something that like my children will never understand. I don't even understand. So, they would run out of like sugar on the 25th of the month.
(51:20) And they don't get more money until like later. And there was like rationing and stuff like that in India. And so, you know, this concept of like in in my house when you run out of sugar, you go to the store and you buy more. Like that was just not a thing. Like even when you went to the store, there was rationing, so you couldn't buy more.
(51:37) And so, they would they would do things like hide sugar in certain places and just just stuff like that, right? So, my my dad, you know, there were eight of them that slept in like an 8-ft by 10-ft thing and then then at night time like half the people would go and sleep in the stairway and things like just just crazy things.
(51:54) So, I think especially for second for second gen or first-generation immigrants who go to America, education was survival. Right? So, if you look at the second generation, we're like, "Why won't you let me study art? Like I want to be an artist, Dad. Oh my god, like let me just study art. Oh my god. I'm trying to express my true self.
(52:18) And you just want me to be like this robot and become an engineer or a doctor. I don't want to do that, bro. I want to be myself and self-expression and I love the world and the world is like capitalism is so bad and oh my god." They don't understand like the the pile of like luxury that affords them that opportunity.
(52:35) So, when I was like 9 years old, you know, my dad pulls me aside. It's me and my brother. My brother's 12. He's like, "One of y'all is going to be a doctor and one of y'all is going to be a lawyer." That's just what it was. And so, I think a lot of us are and it it's kind of an interesting So, I think Indians are lucky because we're like very loving.
(52:54) So, there's a lot of like scientific advantages that we have. We have like close-knit family systems. Generally speaking, we're not like abusive. Um a lot of us have a lot of like spiritual like background and grounding, which I think is like pretty good. Like Mormon people also are like median income is like super good. So, there's like some positive effects of that and I think it's just the right set of things.
(53:14) Um that's my guess. The other thing is that, you know, if you look at like the statistics of it, there's 1.4 billion. So, that pool is pretty big. So, if you take the one the top 1% of 1.4 billion people of an ethnicity and then you like send them to America, like what are their kids going to do when they have all the financial advantages, when they have these cultural advantages, when they're the top 1% of 1.
(53:39) 4 billion, which is different from the top one I mean, Europe has like 400 million people in it. You can take the top 1% of Europe and it'll be like, you know, it's just that it's also a numbers game. >> Mhm. Do you Do you think it's good or bad that Indian parents they force their kids to choose a certain kind of career and they constantly keep comparing them to others.
(54:04) >> It's good and bad. There's no or. Everything's and. [laughter] Right. So so here's the thing to understand. This is like like like I I don't like this way of thinking. Like not there's anything I mean, there's a lot wrong with it, but I don't blame anyone for thinking because this is how humans naturally think.
(54:20) So a big part of I think like personal development is training yourself to think in unnatural ways. >> Mhm. >> Because our natural way of thinking is what biology is for and evolution does not select for happiness. It selects for survival. So the people whose genes are getting passed down are not the people who are like waiting until they can afford to have kids.
(54:42) They're the people who are having nine kids. Like that's what those are the genes that are getting passed down, right? So and so we have a an interesting problem as humans because like a lot of if we want to be happy then we have to go against a lot of our programming. >> Mhm. >> So I I I don't think and what what the reason I I'm kind of mentioned that tangent is because this idea of is it good or bad? That kind of black and white thinking is very biological.
(55:06) But that's not what reality is. Even though it's biological. Do we think about things as good or bad, right? So I think it's both good and bad. So I think this is where I have kind of like this detached like vairagya kind of perspective, which is like it is what it is. So it has certain effects. >> Mhm. >> Then you decide if you want those or not, right? So on the one hand it clearly pushes us to be financially secure.
(55:34) But it comes at like a price, which is usually like peace, contentment, this kind of stuff. Like, I'm sure your parents are really proud of you now, right? But, it's like it it hurts. Oh, I mean, I don't know about your parents. It sounds like your parents were pretty good.
(55:50) But, it hurts that I'm sure all of your your uncles are proud of you now. Not to, you know, talk crap about them. But, it hurts that they recognize you after you've done this, and they didn't recognize you when you were a no one, right? And I I think it's like tricky because you know, I was stunned by how I know all this stuff.
(56:10) But, like as a parent, how I'm like I'm a classic Indian parent, man. My kid came home with a B. She's nine. >> [laughter] >> And I was like, this is unacceptable. >> Are you really like that? >> Yeah. And I was like, oh my god, this is like baked in. >> [laughter] >> It's like in my conditioning. Cuz I really know she's capable of more, right? Like, I know she can be [laughter] better.
(56:31) And then my wife and her are like, okay, the school isn't good enough. They're not pushing her hard enough. She's to be pushed. >> [laughter] >> Right? So, I'm going to just the generation of the trauma is going to continue to get inherited. I think it's a little bit different. We try to do the best that we can.
(56:44) But, I think like one of the things I've learned as a parent is like every parent messes up their child. You just mess them up in like a new way. >> [laughter] >> Right? I'm not going to mess them up in the way that my parents did. I'm going to mess them up in my own way. But, my parents did the best that they could.
(56:59) I'm going to do the best that I can. And it's going to mess people up. That's why the cool thing See, you're broken on the outside. You're successful on the outside. But, the cool thing is at some point you become an adult. And at some point you get to determine what kind of life you want to live. >> Are you stricter with your kids the more than your parents? >> In some ways, yes. And in some ways, no.
(57:17) >> Give me an example. >> So, my parents weren't They were really strict with me, but very inconsistent. So, my dad would work a lot. He'd leave the house at 9:00 in the morning. He'd come back at anywhere between 10:00 and midnight, like every day. So, they would tell me like no video games, no But, they just weren't around.
(57:32) So, I would like Like when the garage door opens, I'd turn off the video game, turn off the monitor, not turn off the computer because it's paused, you know, you got to finish it. Turn off the TV, but the Nintendo's still on. And then I'd pretend to study. So, so I I was just you know, I would So, they were like really strict, but like very inconsistent reinforcement.
(57:50) >> Okay. >> So, I'm like on top of my kids, so I'm deceptive. I mean, so I was very deceptive as a child, and so even now I'm still deceptive. And so, I know. >> Yep. >> But I'm also a little bit different. So, I'm more strict in >> Mhm. >> some ways, I'm more involved, but I'm also like more um I'm also more I'm different in some ways, too.
(58:11) So, I'll also be more indulgent. Like so, sometimes, you know, it's like like they have just have basically one rule. Like even if you want to do video games in the morning, like that's okay on a Saturday. You just need to have breakfast and brush your teeth and get dressed. Like that's the minimum. No screens before you do that.
(58:28) And so, I'm more indulgent with them as well, and I'm more strict in some ways, and I'm more like lax. Like So, my you know, my daughter, the main thing that I want her to be is the best. >> Yeah. >> That's it. >> Yeah. >> I'm not asking for much. She doesn't need to be a doctor. She doesn't need to be an engineer.
(58:43) She just needs to be the best. >> In whatever she does. >> Absolutely, right? Freedom. >> [laughter] >> Just be number one. That's all I'm asking. Right? Is that too much to ask, Raj? I'm not telling her she needs to be a >> my dad. It's okay. >> Yeah. Right? So, my dad was like doctor and lawyer, and I'm doing better than that. You just need to be number one.
(59:00) >> Mhm. >> That's it. >> Yeah, that's it. Easy. My dad is the same. He's like, "Just be number one in whatever you choose." >> Yeah, absolutely. Just be the best. We don't care what. >> [laughter] >> You know, you you said that everyone messes up their kids, >> Yeah. >> but everybody messes up that in new ways. >> Yeah.
(59:15) >> And parents who mess up more, their kids There are enough researches that their kids develop dark triad traits >> Okay. >> in them. And those traits are usually seen in super successful people as well. >> Sure. Yeah. >> Do you think dark triad traits are some way proportionate to the the amount of wealth somebody will accumulate in their life? >> Yes and no.
(59:41) Okay, so this is where we got to be specific, okay? So when you look at populations, that's different from looking at an individual. So I'll give you a simple example of this. Surgeons and psychiatrists test very highly on the sociopathy scale. >> [snorts] >> So I test highly on the sociopathy scale. And so one time I had a really brilliant uh um like attending physician.
(1:00:06) So when you're in training as a resident, so I was a second-year resident, so I was in my second year of psychiatry training. And the thing is like I'm being trained by psychiatrists, and I'm pretty good at fooling most of them. But one of them was like some of them figured figured me out, and I'm not like evil, I'm just sociopathic, and there's a difference, okay? My my wife is going to love that.
(1:00:26) That's going >> [laughter] >> So so let's understand what sociopathy is. >> [clears throat] >> So actually I'll start with this story and then I'll explain what sociopathy is, but she said, you know, she's like, I can tell it's been an absolute pleasure working with you. You're smart, the patients love you.
(1:00:43) I I enjoy working with you every day. And make sure you use that power for good and not evil. That was her feedback to me. So she's like, you're really good at getting people to like you. You can make people laugh. You can give people what they want. So just use that power for good. And I I took that really seriously.
(1:01:00) So like part of you know, I'm I'm I'm kind of I don't know if this makes sense. Everyone thinks like I'm a good guy. I'm really not. And I tried to tell your team I'm just like an ordinary person, and like they were not having it. But I I have a lot of negative tendencies within me that I very intentionally try to like move away from. So what is sociopathy? Sociopathy is So a sociopath is someone who is so high on the sociopathy scale that it like really impairs their function.
(1:01:31) But one feature of sociopathy is a lack of empathy. So when you have a a sociopath, they can hurt people and they feel nothing. The reason that psychiatrists have to be sociopathic is I have to be able to sit with someone who's suicidal and hopeless and depressed and not absorb that. I have to put up a wall of empathy, and I can turn it on and off like a valve.
(1:01:57) So I've trained myself to like be more empathic. Having kids was a big part of that. Um so so it's not that I'm evil, but sociopathy is really common. Like a surgeon has to cut into another human being and not feel bad about it. Right, which sounds kind of weird, but it like makes sense. So there are absolutely these kinds of traits where if you kind of think about like um you know, like having to fire people.
(1:02:26) >> Mhm. >> If you can't fire people effectively, then you're going to it's really hard to run a successful business. So being able to fire someone and it's not even that firing someone is like evil. Maybe people may perceive it that way, especially if they're the ones getting fired. It's a necessity for a successful business.
(1:02:45) Right? And and so there are a lot of those traits that I think we see that are lead to success. And this is also where you have to be broken in the right way. Like you know, there are some very narcissistic people who are very very successful. >> Yeah. >> I think the tricky thing is that even though you can take this subset of people who are really successful and they test highly in like let's say narcissism or sociopathy, this is where we got to be careful.
(1:03:17) Um what the There's another question you can ask and this is like a bit technical, but a high percentage of CEOs may be narcissistic or sociopathic. But what percentage of What is the median income of people who are narcissistic versus people who are not narcissistic? That may actually be lower.
(1:03:39) Does that make sense? >> Yeah. >> So the average narcissistic person may do worse in life. Because a question follows from your question, which is do I need to be more of an hole to be successful? And that's what a lot of people think, especially in like dating, right? Oh, like nice guys finish last. Right? So I need to be an But look at the average hole, how well did do they do in in dating? And look at someone nice is a different word, there's a subtlety there.
(1:04:04) Look at someone who's kind. That's not the same as nice. What's the difference between nice and kind? What do you think? >> Well, nice and kind, okay. Mm. I think a a nice person is even when you're wrong, I'm just going to be nice to you and not point out that And then a kind person will point out that in a subtle way, but help you out because they're kind to you.
(1:04:37) >> Yeah, so so I think I think I'm going to modify it a little bit, but I think you got the essence of it. A kind person is authentic. A nice person is not. >> Mm. >> I'm being nice, but I'm not kind. Kind is like on the inside, nice is on the outside. So this is why a lot of people think nice guys finish last.
(1:04:57) They do sort of finish last. And the reason for that is because they're not actually kind. >> [snorts] >> And women detect it. They pretend to be kind. That's what nice is. And then eventually what happens is you get your your you know your So I mean, I work with a lot of young men. And so, I know this is a tangent, but you know, like some young men will try to be really nice because they like a girl, and they'll do a lot of nice stuff for her, and then she thinks that we're friends.
(1:05:26) And then they get really upset when she won't engage with them physically. Mhm. Like, I do all this stuff for you. Why don't you do this for me? So, in their mind, they're keeping this tally of like, what you owe me, and at some point picking you up from the airport like six times and like helping you deal with your deal with this breakup, at some point that entitles me to a physical relationship.
(1:05:48) That's nice. It's not kind. >> Mhm. >> Right? So, >> Yeah. >> going back to the CEO thing. So, I think that there are some situations where absolutely you can make an argument that sociopathy and narcissism will help people become successful, but that doesn't mean that the that the average sociopath or narcissist is doing well.
(1:06:10) Does that kind of make sense? >> does. >> There's a very important distinction there, which is it yeah, so I'm I'm glad that makes sense. >> It does. You know, I've I'll ask you a question and then we'll move exactly from this thread to the dating world. I think because it in like it's a beautiful bridge, right? You said that do I need to be an in order to win, right? A lot of people think about that.
(1:06:35) There's a saying in in a in a small group amongst a lot of really ultra successful entrepreneurs that I know that they say that sole founders win. >> Yeah. >> Okay, and it's it's almost a thing. So, a lot of young founders, they try to be sole even when they're not. >> Yep. >> Because they think that oh, you know what? Steve Jobs stories, he was an sole, or like Elon Musk stories, and then he was an like they even they would just point out people and stories from their life when they were soles because those get more glorified in the world.
(1:07:08) And I ask this to almost every ultra successful entrepreneur. And >> [clears throat] >> they would deny, but then if I ask them one question deep about maybe firing someone or doing something really twist uh narcissistic or like something very holy. >> Mhm. >> They would they would not shy away by tell about telling them that yeah, this is it.
(1:07:32) So, do you think that sole people win in life? >> No. So, that it's the same distinction. Okay? So, let's understand. So, this this is something called is the problem is is selection bias and retrospective data analysis. Okay? I know that's So, we have to understand both of them. Yeah, quantitative statistics and stuff like that is what you learn as a doctor.
(1:07:54) So, there's a difference between Oh, so a great example of this is Okay, let me ask you this. If I take a bunch of people who won the lottery, and I ask if I if I say like, "Okay, look at all these lottery winners." >> Mhm. >> They all bought lottery tickets. Should I buy lottery tickets? >> Of course. >> Right? Doesn't that mean I'm going to win the lottery? It's like that.
(1:08:28) So, we can take a subset of people who is really successful, but we're not looking at the millions of people who employ that strategy who failed. There's a huge selection bias. >> Mhm. >> Right? So, that's So, I don't think you need to be an hole. And there's another level of selection bias which you kind of talked about, which is that most people who the the internet loves this idea.
(1:08:51) Like cuz like we we don't like these people cuz they have so much money. So, the idea that there's got to be they have to be holes, right? >> [laughter] >> Like they can't be nice, too. Like come on. Like Like they're nice like me? >> Yeah. [laughter] >> And they're they're successful? So like like you can look at people like, you know, I think Warren Buffett is like supposedly a pretty nice guy.
(1:09:13) >> Super nice >> No. >> Super nice guy. So he's the founder of Steam. Do you know what Steam is? Like one of the co-founders. Like one of the richest dudes on He just sits there and like does nothing and just buys 500 billion dollar yachts or whatever. Right? And he's not. And so like it is like Steam is a very Valve is a very fascinating company and like the way it's run. You have no job description.
(1:09:38) Like their average the average pay is like over a million dollars. Like it it's just they're just printing money and they build amazing products. And I the culture there's a little bit weird, but like you have no job description. They don't hire people to do jobs. You just They hire really great talent.
(1:09:55) They just let you do what you want. Right? So I think that just because there are a lot of people who are a particular way, and you can absolutely make the argument. I think you'd have to do real research though. You'd have to look at like, you know, the top 100 companies, measure the degree of sociopathy.
(1:10:11) And you may find that there's some degree of sociopathy because people have to You have to fire people and you have to learn how to let go and and things like that. And I think there's a certain amount of that that's true. But that's very different from looking at lottery winning winners. And then if I'm sitting there at the bottom like, let me buy a lottery tickets.
(1:10:25) Doesn't work well. Right? So the majority of people who employ the strategy do not do well. You just never hear about them. You just hear about these incredible outliers. And then people try to understand that. The other element of this is I think the reason that being an is so attractive to people the people that reason that people try to do it is because there are parts of them that get taken advantage of that being an would fix.
(1:10:51) So if I'm like kind, right? And if I'm like a dude, and like [clears throat] I'm my best friend has been dumped by another guy who said that he was going to marry her and he didn't. And then my friend comes to me and she cries on my shoulder. This happened six times. I'm nice and all these other people are And so you get taken advantage of.
(1:11:13) Right? My like oh like I'm nice and when when my my work colleague needs help, I say yes, but this other person is selfish and they say no. And then now I'm busy on the like I'm helping them over the weekend and then, you know So so people will turn themselves in into an because they can't control other parts of themselves.
(1:11:33) So being an is an antidote from being unable to say no. Fear of disappointment. Right? So if I'm fear of if I'm afraid of disappointing you, I'm never going to say no. And what I really need to do is be an because that'll help me overcome my fear of disappointment. But it doesn't actually deal with the root of the problem.
(1:11:52) It's just like a compensatory strategy. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. >> So I think there's a lot of attraction to being an >> Mhm. >> Um but usually you know, I tend to think that on average, and I I could be wrong, but I can make a pretty good argument for like being a good compassionate human being. Um you know, we talk about some of the stuff like Dharma.
(1:12:14) So like you know, I'm pretty successful, but I don't try to be successful. I work hard. I work a lot. But I'm not I don't really have much personal ambition, at least in the material world. Like I'm pretty chill. >> Mhm. >> I get to hang out I mean, I like money, but you know, I basically have sufficient I play video games for fun.
(1:12:34) And I spend time with my kids and I, you know, hang out with my wife and she likes nice things, but I don't like nice things. So that works out because then she gets my budget and then she's happy. So we don't actually need as much. You know, I play this game called Dota 2, which is free. And I've been paying playing it for like 13 years.
(1:12:51) So so I I think there are successful ways to do this stuff without going for that. And you'll end up like I'm doing okay. I'm not you. >> I'm not an >> Come on. >> [laughter] >> Huh? I'm not >> No, I'm sorry. >> I meant like IN TERMS OF SUCCESS. >> YEAH, I don't think >> Yeah, I am. I don't know. My team can tell me.
(1:13:09) >> [laughter] >> So, I I I meant to say that you know, I'm not very ambitious, but you can be you can do pretty well. Like I'm pretty happy with how far I've come. >> Yeah. >> And and I think a lot of people and when I teach people this stuff, like they get pretty far. >> Mhm. >> I don't know that they're going to get your level.
(1:13:31) You know, but they'll they'll get pretty far. >> So, I mean just purely based on anecdotal observation. >> Okay. >> Right? I'm talking about top 0.01% people. >> Okay. >> Are they more at the top 0.01% or more empathetic people and really nice people? >> 0.001. So, let me think about sample size and let me just think about who have I worked with.
(1:14:00) So, 0.001 is one out of 100,000, right? >> So, someone who is in like top five in the game. >> I I I I know. I'm I'm thinking about everything from e-sports athletes to entrepreneurs. >> Mhm. >> Influencers. >> Do podcasters do it Yeah. >> Um I think the majority of people I would say less than more but there's a caveat there, which is selection bias because the people who come to me sometimes are but they're they come to me because they're a little bit more open-minded.
(1:14:41) They're a little bit more cognitively flexible. I think the people who are more in the category or like super narcissist narcissistic wouldn't come to me. >> Mhm. >> But I I I think definitely a lot of them are kind. And then the other the other problem with this question is that I tend to see the good in people. Some of the people that I work with that I would not call an I'm pretty sure many of the people in their life would call them an >> [laughter] >> So, that's a pretty big bias, too.
(1:15:10) >> Yeah. You know, I I think I have I have this like little bias theory which I believe in. I believe people who are at work, they're really good at their homes, in their personal life. And people who are like an in their personal life are really good at like public pleasing at the work life, right? And and I've seen this this is just anecdotal.
(1:15:34) >> Yeah. >> Right, observation which I'm sharing with you. I've seen this almost true with almost everybody who I know who's at the top. Like they are like like these amazing leaders. Everybody love them. They're public pleasers. They are like just the most empathetic people. They some of their employees feel like he's better or she's better than like a therapist, like so good.
(1:15:54) >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And then their personal life, they're They're terrible. They're like these monstrous people who are like almost care care about nothing and nobody. And then there are people who are like darlings in their personal life. Amazing. And at work, they are like just like my way or highway. >> Yes.
(1:16:13) I think I largely agree with that. So, let's understand why a little bit. >> I assume you're sharing that observation cuz you want to hear it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, I won't go into too much detail. So, as a psychiatrist, I treat anybody. >> Mhm. >> And um one of the most useful parts of my training is I spent 3 months working in a jail.
(1:16:37) And sometimes I'll have patients who are like criminals. >> Mhm. >> Like and they can be and maybe the best example of this, I won't go into too much detail, but if you look at like, you know, one of these these shows that has like mob boss, right? They love their kids. And then they'll like be ordering hits at work, you know? So so I think there's a certain of element of that that's like absolutely true.
(1:17:02) Like I'm thinking about people that I've worked with that are like truly like sociopathic on like a different level and and how nice they can be. >> Well, so >> and there's different versions of this. They're not always sociopathic. Sometimes the ones I've seen sociopathic at home and at work. I've seen that. I've also seen not really sociopathic, but this is just the rules of the game at work.
(1:17:28) And the rules of the game at home or you know, you're on my team or you're not on my team. I love my children, but I will order a hit on someone. >> Yeah. >> You know. I've seen that, too. Um I think that sometimes people are you know, sometimes people will This is a bit parasocial, but people will be like, "Dr.
(1:17:47) K, will you adopt me? I wish I had a dad like Dr. K." And like I think I'm a pretty good dad, but I'm not like the best dad. I'm way better as Dr. K. Like my kids, you know, here I am like, "Oh, Raj, I think you should do whatever makes you happy, bro." But when it when my kid gets a B, it's like, "Uh >> [laughter] >> Right? All you have to be is the best.
(1:18:04) " >> Yeah. >> So I think the other sad thing is that I think oftentimes people who really use a lot of cognitive load to be an inspiring leader every day at work takes a lot of neuro resources. So I think my family definitely gets the worst version of me. >> Mhm. >> And that's really common. Right? So the my family gets doesn't get Dr. K.
(1:18:33) They get All work. And like thank God for that. Like I think if my family would be completely messed up if they got Dr. K. And I I realized this some time ago that, you know, my my kids don't need a sannyasi as a as a dad. That's not right. And so I don't I don't like force meditation on them in a way that sometimes I wonder if I'm doing them a disservice.
(1:18:54) Cuz I'll see other dads that are like, you know, forcing meditation on their kids, but so I kind of teach them what they're excited to learn. We do some amount of like stuff, but I think it's absolutely true that you know, you put on a mask when you go to work and you take the mask that you go when you when you go home.
(1:19:10) You take off the mask. And I I think the real solution to that is to be authentic all throughout. If you're putting on a mask, it's got to come off. >> Yeah. >> So instead change yourself to be like more authentic in both places. So don't try to be an inspiring leader, just be a regular human being, which once again, I was trying to explain to your team like I'm not that great.
(1:19:30) >> [laughter] >> And they were like not having it, you know? And it was like So so people will look up to you, right? So when you have a public persona, that's all they see. They don't see the you know, when you get mad at the waitress because your croissant is toasted too much or whatever, right? Like I don't I don't do that, but >> I don't do that either.
(1:19:51) >> I've never [laughter] done that. >> Yeah, I I I haven't done that either. But But I I do think that this this kind of dichotomy is very common. And that's just a general principle. Psychologically, when you when you See, anytime you take an a neutron and you split it into a positron, you always get an electron.
(1:20:07) >> Mhm. >> And this is a really interesting thing that we've learned in psychology where if you look at some of these new innovations in psychotherapy like radical acceptance. Right? So >> So this is What's radical acceptance? >> So So there used to be this idea or there's a very common idea. Like we said we were saying earlier that sadness is bad.
(1:20:25) >> Mhm. >> Anger is bad. But now there's this new kind of perspective in in psychology that nothing is bad. >> Mhm. >> And so you like it's okay to be angry. It's okay to be ashamed. It's okay to be pathetic and feel pathetic. So one of the things that, you know, made me a little bit internet famous is I'll say really mean things to people like to their face.
(1:20:46) And they they're okay with that because there's authenticity behind I'm not saying I'm just making an observation that wow, you like you really think you're pathetic. And actually if when I look at your life like you are pathetic. Like you've got nothing going for you. >> Mhm. >> And this is what some people don't understand.
(1:21:02) There's a lot of these, you know, toxic manosphere influencers. There's one thing that they do really well. So if if I'm a loser who's like at home watching pornography all day and I'm 25 years old and I I go out into the world everyone tell me you're a man, you're privileged. Your life isn't that bad. What are you complaining about? There's what and I feel pathetic.
(1:21:22) And then the other thing is that I'll go to my mom and my mom will be like I don't get that. You're beautiful. You're great. You know, everything's going to you know. So people will tell me like my life isn't like I'm a good person. I'm not a loser. The toxic manosphere influencers will say yeah, you are loser. Here's how to change it.
(1:21:36) >> Yeah. >> So one thing I've learned as a psychiatrist is if someone comes to me into my office and it's a hard thing to learn and they say I'm suicidal and I want to kill myself. The instinctive reaction is no, there's so much to live for. And the real the best reaction as a professional is help me understand why you think that way.
(1:21:55) Right? And then what I discover is like with the person I talked about like an hour ago. You know, this dude who's a very successful banker who has a noose in his basement. And it's like, okay, like help me understand that. And to understand that human beings aren't stupid. And if he's got a noose in the in the basement and his life is so good.
(1:22:12) This is what people don't understand. There's got to be a really good reason. Right? The gap between what you see and what there is. Like if this person is really successful, that means they're carrying around a really deep negative weight. Does that kind of make sense? Cuz if you see them at positive 100 and they're suicidal at negative 100, there's a minus 200 swing there.
(1:22:34) And and so really accepting that, understanding that, okay, like we're going to accept what you are. That can become very helpful. >> But that will require a lot of not only individuals to change, but a lot of professionals to change. Because not everybody can do this acceptance thing. >> Yeah, so this is kind of, you know, relating to this idea of like being one way at work and being one way at home.
(1:23:00) I think a big part of what acceptance teaches us is the value of authenticity. To stop being an actor. >> Mhm. >> And and to be authentic. And so what I would say to people, and I know this is hard. You're right, it takes a lot of work. So, you know, if I dislike you, Raj, the answer to that to for me is not to pretend to be nice.
(1:23:23) It's to work on my dislike. To genuinely stop disliking you. Right? That requires a lot of work. >> True. >> So, don't fake it till you make it. Like really do that internal work, but it's so much easier to just pretend to be nice. >> Yeah. You know, and I I was reading a research recently around this that a lot of families and partners get the worst of their partner.
(1:23:49) >> Yeah, yeah, absolutely. >> Because their partners are publicly active and then they're trying to be this really nice person outside. So, when they go home, then they're tired, they don't have social battery, they don't want to do anything, they just want to be the worst version of themselves, and they're angry and annoyed and then irritated, right? And they do that.
(1:24:09) And the research went on to say that one of the possible reasons for this is that because large majority of people, as human beings, love appreciation and admiration. In whichever situation they get that more, they start acting there more, and then the other other side they just reducing their entire effort work.
(1:24:33) So, for example, if an individual who's getting who did one good gesture at work and got really appreciated as a stranger, would want to do 20 more gestures there versus when they come home and they do a small gesture, probably their husband or their wife or their kids will be like, "Oh, that's just a family duty.
(1:24:53) So, it's nothing to be appreciated or celebrated." So, they just start reducing the effort which they put in the family. >> Yeah. Yeah, absolutely the case. >> reward mechanism which is changing their behavior. >> Yeah, so so you're getting positive reinforcement in one place and you're not getting in another.
(1:25:07) So, that's absolutely the case. I think um I also think, kind of like you were saying, there there's more to it. That That's That's absolutely the case. This is also, by the way, how people end up like in affairs. >> Mhm. >> Um And so, I think there's all kinds of factors about this. And now we can talk about falling in love in affairs and stuff, but I just wanted to close that out.
(1:25:27) >> questions on this. >> Okay. >> Why at one side people are digging more risk getting out in their personal lives they're not? So, more and more people are switching jobs, leaving certain type of cities, countries, more happy to move, more happy to take entrepreneurial ventures, more entrepreneurs, more creators, more people, you know, like they're more risk-taking in their professional life, but in the personal life it's really really reducing.
(1:25:55) >> Yeah, so so I you know, it's interesting. I think it's not as much of a risk. So, when you're saying people are taking risks, I think those risks were way bigger 30 years ago. >> Mhm. >> So, becoming a content creator today is not I mean, there's a risk to it, but you can do it on the side. Like I did it on the side, right? I monkey branched that.
(1:26:14) I had a job, started Twitch, and then like when HealthyGamer became the demands became so high, like that's when I quit. So I I think I think entrepreneurship isn't the risk that it used to be because we have so many resources. We have things like this podcast where like you can learn so much about yourself, right? And so that's part of it.
(1:26:34) So I don't think it's as big of a risk as people say it is. I mean and not to say that it isn't a risk. >> understand what you're trying to say. Yeah. >> The other side of it is that I think the traditional path has gotten so like arbitraged out. There's no arbitrage left. So there there like the traditional path doesn't work anymore.
(1:26:53) Go to school, at least in the US. So we you know, we have to pay a lot of money for college. Go to school, get a job. You have a bunch of student loans. Median income has gone down or median income has stayed the same. Inflation has gone up. The basic problem in the world right now, the reason people are taking more risks is because playing it safe is the biggest risk you can take.
(1:27:13) >> True. >> And so we're we're forced out of desperation. You know, I I I always wonder about how penguins evolved. At some point some bird was like, "I'm done with flight. >> [laughter] >> I'm just going to start swimming." Right? So what kind of desperation led to the evolution of a penguin? That's what we're seeing right now.
(1:27:34) We're seeing an entirely new organism, the influencer, that has never existed in the history of humanity. Which like looks like a human and talks like a human but can't fly like a human. [laughter] And instead swims. What's your job? My job is to go to places, take pictures of food and eat it. >> [laughter] >> You know, what kind of job is this? Right? So so I think people are forced into risks.
(1:28:02) >> Mhm. >> And risks have become more dangerous. >> Mhm. >> So it's kind of and and especially on the the personal life. Like it's like you know, it used to be that when you had when you got married a man could take care of you and you didn't need to work. So, we had this division of labor because you could support a household on a on a single income. That isn't there anymore.
(1:28:23) So, what a lot of women are seeing is like I have to work in order to make the household run. But I don't know if this dude is going to change diapers. And so like that's that's a real concern. Right? Especially if like this person is like anti-feminism. >> Yeah. >> The economic situation has changed. >> Do you know I have a question in that, but we'll talk about influencer a little bit.
(1:28:53) Because You know, when I study a lot of these influencers who just travel and go out and eat and take pictures and then just come back and then then they make millions out of it. I think what what they're doing is something really really smart. >> Okay. >> And I'll tell you why. Knowingly or unknowingly, a lot of these people have figured out that majority of people live lives.
(1:29:27) >> Mhm. >> Majority of people don't have enough money and they're bored to death. So, they are giving a piece of fantasy land through their lens. >> Yeah. >> And that's why they're working. So, they're doing like an important job in showing fantasy and dreams to people who probably can either not afford or giving them motivation to start working more so that they can afford it one point.
(1:29:49) >> Uh I'm going to take that one step further in a scary way. >> Mhm. >> The influencers used to give fantasy. What really is terrifying is if you look at the newest wave of influencers I'm not going to name names, but I don't know if you've seen this, but what the newest wave of influencers is doing is not even fantasy. It's regular life.
(1:30:10) >> Mhm. Yeah. >> They're doing like all these weird like regular things. They're like, "We're going to run a race, or I'm going to drive a car, or I'm going to like it's just like regular stuff. Like I'm going to go out and live life." And I'm like kind of unprepared for it, and weird stuff is going to happen to me, and people are now just they're not watching a like an exceptional life.
(1:30:34) They're just watching an ordinary life. >> Why do you think that's happening? >> I think because people aren't living ordinary lives. So, things have gotten so bad in society where an ordinary life has become the new fantasy, and I'm serious about that. Going on a date has become a fantasy. Like think about that, man. Going out and having food with your friends has become a fantasy to like 25% of people out there.
(1:31:06) Like the US the last US Surgeon General released this bulletin about a loneliness epidemic. >> Mhm. >> It's really scary. There you know, touch starvation. People don't get touch anymore. Um in the UK, there's a bunch of research on something called deaths of despair. This is like depression, alcohol, suicide, where it really roots back to like people aren't able to like live a life anymore.
(1:31:36) Like you can't live a regular life. It's like so hard. You know, what's wrong with these people? They're trying to live a life, and they're not even given the basic of like human connection. Right? Cuz what's happened is we as a society have started to say like, "No one's going to look out for me. I got to look out for myself.
(1:31:52) I deserve the best." We've stopped like who's responsible for helping the incels? Nobody. So, we've just abandoned our fellow human beings. Mhm. >> True. And uh What do you think is a fix? >> Um >> We all have gotten more lonelier. There is There's a loneliness epidemic. More and more people are looking out for themselves, not for others.
(1:32:26) More and more people are getting selfish, and that's one of the reasons why they're facing a lot of mental health problems. So, we know this now. What's the fix? >> So, a couple of things. So, the fix is once again If I want people to take one thing away from this podcast, it's like things are multifactorial. >> Mhm. >> So, I'll give you my fix.
(1:32:51) >> Okay. >> Okay? So, the first is that I think the only shot you've got is the rest of the world is falling apart. AI's going to take your job. No one's going to have sex with you. You're not going to make money. You're going to spend all your time watching Tik Tok and jerking off, right? [laughter] This is the world that like This is like what 20% of 5% of people's lives are.
(1:33:14) >> Yeah, thanks for motivating us. >> I know. Radical acceptance, remember we talked about that? So, here's the thing. The The best thing The thing that worked for me, cuz I was that person. >> Mhm. >> And people think I'm special, but I'm not. >> Mhm. >> I learned how I work. So, you should be able to control yourself.
(1:33:33) Forget about the rest of the world. At a minimum, control yourself. And here's the cool thing. If you can control yourself, you can get really far. And you don't have to be like great. You don't have to be brilliant. It's like just think about the bare minimum. Right? So, So, I'll give you a simple example.
(1:33:54) A lot of people think that they need to drastically change their life. They don't need to drastically change their life. They need to minimally change their life. So, I started paying attention to something. So, I'm I used to be addicted to video games. I'm not addicted anymore. But, I tried to figure out what is the cost of 1 hour of gaming.
(1:34:13) And so, I did something really simple. I was just like, "Okay, I'm not going to start at 5:00 p.m. I'm going to start I'm going to go to the gym, and I'll start at 6:00." Instead of playing for 4 hours, I'll play for 3. I noticed a couple of really important things. The first is that the reducing your gaming from 20 hours a week to 18 hours a week is like basically no loss in enjoyment.
(1:34:40) But, elevating your exercise from 0 hours a week to going to the gym twice a week transforms your life. So, I think what a lot of people don't realize is that you can look at your life, which is absolute Like, you can work out 0 hours a week. If you just work out 2 hours a week, you're not giving up a whole lot, and you're actually getting a whole lot.
(1:35:05) And if you kind of think about like let's say like working on your resume. Working on your resume for 5 hours every 6 months will drastically alter your life. Right? Just keeping it updated. I'm going to update my resume once a quarter. I'm going to spend 1 hour a quarter. And then when it comes time to apply for your job, "Oh my god, I have to update my resume.
(1:35:28) " And so, then you don't do it for 3 months. It's already updated. Just imagine how your life is I don't know if you ever applied for a job or when the last time you did, but >> [laughter] >> you know, but like if it's already updated, it makes things so much easier. So, people what people don't realize, this is the biggest thing I've learned as a psychiatrist, is that if you have a gigantic problem, you don't need a gigantic solution.
(1:35:48) And if you think you need a gigantic solution, then you think, "Oh my god, I have to do so much. You need very little help. I think a good example of this is is you know if you lift weights and you're like on your last rep and you're pushing and you know the bar isn't sinking but it's not going up. You just need like one finger.
(1:36:05) >> Mhm. >> That's really what people need. You need a very small change in your life and it'll have huge effects. >> Yeah. >> So for and for me that big thing that little thing I think it's a big thing. You don't need a whole lot of self-understanding but self-understanding is great. Once you understand how you work like you're you're going through life not knowing how to drive your car.
(1:36:25) Can you wake up when you want to wake up? Can you get your body to do what you want it to? Right? There Once the gap between should and what you do is minimized then your life becomes really easy. So for me that's the fix. The problem is that that fix will be insufficient. >> Yeah. >> Because getting someone to say yes to dating you is like that requires them.
(1:36:48) Right? So I think there's another element to understanding yourself which is like sort of some of these things like spiritual detachment all these kinds of things. You have to understand that you can only control yourself. You can't control the people around you. And so I think the fix is to start with you because I don't know that you can start with anything else first of all.
(1:37:09) And I don't know that anyone else is going to fix those problems and this is what really scares me. This is why I left Harvard and started streaming. Cuz my my mentor said you know 10 years from now you will be the world's expert in video game addiction. Here's the plan. We've got it all laid out for you. >> I want to go to the conversation of the beginning. Okay.
(1:37:32) Which was and beginning when I say beginning it means the first time I saw you. Okay. >> Mhm. >> On internet. I was telling you about it. I saw your video. >> Okay. >> Which was about you keeping your legs up and then you know something about it. So what was that video? First you tell me like why Why do we Why is it a good feeling when we put our legs up? And what do we find good about it? And then what does it tell? Like does is it making us weak? Is it dropping our testosterone? >> So so here's the thing. So if you if you
(1:38:08) look at just the mechanics of the body. This is physics, not even biology really. If you want your spine to be erect. Right? So when you have these like yogis, they're sitting in meditation for hours if not days. So they need a posture where their spine stays erect, but does not require muscular support. So normally when we're erect, we have to like use our muscles.
(1:38:34) You have to You don't You're not at rest >> Yeah. >> and and spine straight. So there's one really simple principle, which has to do with center of gravity, which is that if your knees are lower than your hips, your spine will be erect. And if your knees are higher than your hips, your spine will be curved because your center of gravity will be here.
(1:38:54) So that may be there may be some part of that that's technically wrong, but it absolutely works on on on the >> majority of you. >> No not on everybody, but I may have some of the explanation wrong. So in yoga if you look at it like, you know, we'll sit cross-legged and then you'll hunch over.
(1:39:12) So there are a couple of things that you can look at when people do you know, meditation, they'll sit on a cushion. So you don't want to sit on a chair, but you want to elevate your hips. So you'll sit on a cushion under your butt and your knees will be down and you'll notice that if you just sit on a small pillow, it's beautiful how you can do this.
(1:39:28) You can take a towel and you can fold it over once and you can sit on it. Feels a little bit straighter. You fold it over again, it feels even straighter. Fold it over again, feels even straighter. So you can see how the more you change that axis, the more straight you sit. Um So, that's >> That was you would have That That's exactly what you would have figured.
(1:39:50) >> And then you can look at things like I don't know if you all are familiar with like padmasana or or the padmasana, right? So, lotus posture. So, that's where you sit with your feet on your thighs, right? It's like the classic meditative posture. And if you look at it, what's the difference between sitting regular cross-legged and padmasana? It's your knees are going lower.
(1:40:07) >> Mhm. And why do people shake their legs without even constantly realizing it? Is there something going on? >> So, 10% of our calories get burned. You just mean like this, right? Where you just like your leg. Um there's different reasons for it. So, I know that like you know, if you give people like stimulants, they'll do it more.
(1:40:24) But, it's just a normal part of human biology. >> So, there's nothing nothing wrong about >> No, not nothing wrong. So, so it can't be bad. So, in in in you know, really bad cases, you you could have something like a Tourette's disorder or restless leg syndrome. But, we basically know that most human beings 10% of their caloric energy gets spent in these repetitive movements.
(1:40:49) Not really clear why it happens. Um Like that's also where you can go to like Ayurveda and stuff. And if you have like more vata in your body, you'll be like more fidgety. So, I have a lot of vata, which means I have a lot of like wind in my body, whatever that means. But, I use my hands a lot when I talk. >> So, here was the last question, which I wanted to be the first question, but then now we have spent I think three, four hours together. Yeah.
(1:41:13) And you know me, and you know where I pause, where I take questions. And if you have to look back and pause, because you have analyzed like a lot of people, what do you analyze about me? >> So, the first thing is you asked me The first question you asked me is what was my favorite podcast. And and why what made it great.
(1:41:33) So, I now understand why you asked that question. >> Why? >> You tell me. Why you ask that question? >> Because I wanted to learn. >> No. Okay, maybe. Why do you want to learn? >> Because I know somewhere someone is doing really great job. >> Good. >> Which must have because you go on so many podcasts which must have stood out for you.
(1:41:58) So I want to learn that and recreate that experience and learn those things in my life. >> Why do you want to learn those things in your life? >> Because I want to be at the top. >> There we go. Right. So I I think this is the most important thing about you that you need to understand. I I think like it it that's such a innocent question.
(1:42:20) It's such a wholesome question. Hi, my name is Raj. I want to learn like what was great for you cuz I want to learn that thing. And it comes across as innocent. It comes across as well. I'm not saying it's bad or anything. But I I think you need to understand how much this drives and maybe you do. But I'm not sure you do.
(1:42:43) How much this drives every dimension of your life. And it's not good or bad. The scary thing, the thing that I I think is bad but even bad is not necessarily bad, okay? Is that you're not in control of it. Right. So so you want to learn but like just know So I think the biggest thing you need to learn is like notice how much of your mental um function comes from this root.
(1:43:15) >> Mhm. >> And yet I would still encourage you to think about why is that? >> Mhm. >> Right. Why are you so Why are you not satisfied with yourself? And there's a caveat there, too. Because I think if I were to ask you, are you satisfied in yourself? You'd say like basically, yeah. Like I'm pretty happy with how I spend my days.
(1:43:35) I spend my days productively. I'm productive. My trajectory is good. I'm doing pretty well. So, I I know that, right? I I know that you're not unhappy with yourself. That That's why this is a subtle thing. So, this is the hard thing is the further you go, the more subtle things get. The more that words are hard.
(1:43:54) It's like easy to get off track. So, I like I know that you use your time productively. I know you don't beat yourself up. >> No. >> Right? And I know you don't care about validation. So, those are like the common problems with people who are in your situation. But, you don't have any of those problems. Your But, you're still Your problem is a raga.
(1:44:15) Attachment. There's something about this. There's a gravitation to this that is pulling you. >> True. >> That's where there are a couple of things. So, it's possible that this is a karma that needs to be completed. And you're just drawn to complete this thing. Possible that this is a really potent opportunity for spiritual development because it's not one of the common problems.
(1:44:43) It's like I don't know if this makes sense. It's so much harder to solve than insecurity. It's so much harder to solve than validation. And I'm not saying this to like stroke your ego. Oh, I You have bigger problem. More great. That's not what it is, right? But, I genuinely think this. So, that's tricky.
(1:45:04) And I'm not saying it's bad. I'm not saying you need to change it, but I think that there's a layer So, right now you're just following this thing. >> Mhm. >> If you understand this thing, you will feel amazing. You'll feel like you get it. What you're chasing, you will actually get because getting what you're chasing doesn't let you get it.
(1:45:30) You know what I mean? So, that's where And it doesn't need to happen soon, by the way. This is going to happen later for you. It's not no rush. >> Interesting. Perfect. Thank you so much. >> [laughter] >> Interesting way. Yeah, I I don't get it, but I get it. I don't I don't [laughter] know how to say that. >> Yeah, so that's the weird This stuff you understand, right? But it's not Words can't capture it.
(1:45:55) So, if I put it in words, it's going to be wrong. You don't need validation. You don't beat yourself up. There's nothing wrong. >> Yeah. >> But you're missing something. >> Mhm. >> And as you chase that thing, you don't find it. And that piece will come when you understand, "Oh my god, this is Oh my god, that's why I'm doing it.
(1:46:15) That's where this is coming from." >> Yeah, I actually don't know where it's coming from. >> Yeah, yeah. It'll be great when you figure it out. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. How was India this time for you? [music] >> It's great. I mean, I've been here for 2 days. >> And then what change are you seeing here now? >> Um there's a lot more like intentional greenery.
(1:46:29) >> Mhm. >> And then it seems like there's a lot of like [music] coffee culture. >> Yeah, all of a sudden now. Yeah. >> Yeah, and like in a very cool way. >> Yeah. >> So, it's [music] like my my cousin took me to like a a cafe where I got like a juice. I don't I don't know. Or maybe bougie? >> Yeah. >> I'll see you next time. Until then, keep
(1:47:24) figuring out. keep figuring out. >> [music] [music] [music]