Dangers of Chanting Mantras- Trika Tantra , Deathless Yogis, Sadhana, Himalayan Encounters | Shlloka

Dangers of Chanting Mantras- Trika Tantra , Deathless Yogis, Sadhana, Himalayan Encounters | Shlloka

Author Name:SHLLOKA

Youtube Channel Url:https://www.youtube.com/@Shlloka_B2B

Youtube Video URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fubUEKp9-6w



Transcript:
(00:00) In the middle of the jungle, this short 4-foot woman comes from I don't know where appears with a sickle in her hand. I'm looking at her and when she looks back at me, I see chakras in her eyes. Second event in the same journey. Out of nowhere in the dark comes a Nandi. But that Nandi took a U-turn and started to run on the opposite direction.
(00:19) We followed not even 2 minutes. We found the temple. We found Baba G's Kya. If Shiva had created this world, it would be a boring world because there is no action in it. The moment Shiva is into action, it's in the sphere of Shrui. Shakrui is going to corrupt you. If we have a concept of eight davis, eight manifestation of the para energy.
(00:40) These eight energies also hang around with their eight davis. So then it becomes 64 bhyraas. >> Can you give us any one technique that could [music] help us at least work towards the Shiva tatwa? >> You are Shiva. If you are not, then Shaki is playing you all the time. That's not the right way to do. It's going to irrevocably ruin your life.
(00:57) It would become a black hole. Consume everything else because there was no Shiva to control it. >> Omnamash Shiva should not be recited >> unless you are initiated by a certain guru. Omij of the BJ is a seed of the seeds. Mantra is the manifestation of the deity in the energy form. >> Tell me about some of these deathless yogis.
(01:14) >> Rabhakar Siddha. >> He's lived 700 and so many years. >> 730 odd years in 13 odd different bodies. >> My god. Yuvraat Shvastawa is a spiritual seeker and practitioner dedicated to exploring consciousness through the lens of Kashmir shism. Insights from his years of sadha and mystical encounters in the Himalayas.
(01:39) >> Rishies gave five different unique attributes to something that they call Shiva and only if you have those five attributes you are Shiva otherwise you are a deity. So what are these five things that Shiva can do? Kashmir shavism beautifully gives you three different ubayo at the top of it. It's shambhavayo or the way of shambhu.
(01:59) The next one is shhatuayo which is the way of shaky or the sphere or the house of people think that we're caught up in with the wrong partner. Right? Is it a good idea to go through that karmic thing that you might have had with that person or maybe just retreat? Through his talks he invites audiences to rediscover the transformative power of namjab and the inner science of tantra.
(02:22) and we are delighted to welcome him to the body to being podcast today. >> That gfa is important to me because I've had some experiences. One of those experiences was Asakshhat of Hanumanji with my eyes closed as well as open. >> Oh wow. And how was that? >> I am just trembling right now. >> Most of the podcasts that I've done are for the viewers and there are very few podcasts that I've done for myself.
(02:46) This is one of those podcasts. Today's guest asked me this question. He said, "Would you rather understand life or death?" And then he said something that really stayed with me. He said, "If you understand death, life begins to make sense." Now, what if I told you that this tantric sect says that you are not human trying to reach Shiva because you are Shiva himself.
(03:11) Here the teachings are so radical that not even gods are eligible to receive it. And these controversial teachings were hidden away in grammar books and recipes so that it couldn't just land in anybody's hand. The fascinating thing about this tantra is that you can get angry, you can be desirous, you can laugh, you can sing songs, listen to music, indulge in pleasures, and all of this can become tools for you to reach your higher self, for you to get enlightened.
(03:39) There is a Kashmir mystic who wrote the greatest tantric encyclopedia, entered a cave with 1,200 disciples, and then was never seen again. Who are these deathless yogis who never die? Who is Mahavtar Baba Gi really? And why do century old traditions continue to speak about beings who have transcended death itself? Welcome to one of the deepest conversations that we've had this year where we've explored all of this and much more on the mind-blowing mysteries on Tria Tantra or Thri.
(04:06) Before we begin, I have a little request. Over the past two years as a woman podcaster with an allwoman team, we've been incredibly fortunate to receive so much love and support from all of you that I'm truly and genuinely grateful. At the same time, nearly 80% of those who watch our conversations haven't subscribed yet.
(04:22) If our podcasts have added value to you, I truly appreciate if you could subscribe to the channel as it genuinely helps us reach a wider audience and bring more authentic insightful voices onto the platform. So Uttarakand again let's talk about there is a place I think about 7 10 odd kilometers above Uttar Kashi called Nala there is a very famous ashram of chinayan gi there okay uh or I could be wrong so from Nala this place that I'm talking about is about 7 8 kilometers odd trek in the middle of the thick jungles up in the mountains the place is
(04:57) called Ayana Dvi and I'm taking the name because I want people to go if Dvi wants them they will reach If she doesn't well you are I don't know well jungle eats you up. It's like that. Okay. So there is this Dvi. It's the Dvi of the jungle. We call her Ayana Dvi. It's a distorted form of Ayana which is mirror which means that Shaki has the capacity to show you you.
(05:23) One of those times somebody takes me to this place and I know now how terrible the way is. It's thick jungle. Most of the times it's raining. When I had gone, it was raining. There are leeches all around. There are bears, tigers, leopards. So, it took me when I was hiking for the first time. It took would have taken me about four, five or maybe more hours.
(05:43) Okay. And I am with some company. So, I meet Babai there. There's a wonderful Yeah. There's a Babai who lives there from the last. >> So, he is a Babai from Kerala. He has been living in that place from the last 17 years. And he himself in his words would tell you if you happen to meet him that I don't stay here.
(06:00) I wonder what just keeps me here. I am not able to go out from the crushetra. So I am the only one who Dvi likes to be served by and for the time being I am just stuck. But I am happy in this stuckup situation also. So anyway so that's him. So I happen to meet the babai gi we have some wonderful conversation a couple of nights spent at this solitary jungle.
(06:21) We come back and I know my experiences there right? So it's like when you read a great book you recommend it to somebody else. You watch a great movie, you want to take a couple of people out, your friends out to watch the movie along with yourself. Similarly, I was I had this great experience in that place. And I was like, okay, whenever I go next, I let me see, I would probably have a couple of more people along with me.
(06:43) I would want them to experience what I experienced. Cut to I think after a few months. So, one of my gurus and his wife, they are Utrakashi. So, I fly down to this place. Now, we all three are moving around. And I'm like guruna I want to take you to a particular place. It's like okay Adesh. [laughter] So um now this time I was just I had just gone to this place only once.
(07:06) This was my second time and I knew this is middle of jungle and I'm being a little underconfident also but I know if they want we will all be there. half the way bad rain thick jungles and because of a lot of trees the overgrown stuff there is no trail now and we are like directionless and from nowhere shloka in the jungle in the middle of the jungle the short 4ft woman [laughter] comes from I don't know where appears with a sickle in her hand looks like a pahari woman and most importantly when she comes very close to me I she's like
(07:39) small right so I'm looking at her like this and when she looks back at me I see chakras in her eyes. >> Oh wow. >> Like burning chakras. I am taken a back like what? Like right and I'm calling Gurunatha. Gurunatha come here because they're also trying to find out directions to hike up.
(07:59) So we are all three separate three people in one group all separated because we're looking for directions on the way up. I encounter with this Dvi and I see what is happening and I'm like amma I call amma. So am I forgot the directions in Hindi and I'm going to Ayana Baba Ayana Mandonder um if you could help. She spoke Hindi but broken Hindi and using her sickle she is showing me the way how to go up and I am in a different zone altogether.
(08:28) I know what I'm seeing right. >> Who is she baby? >> Yes. [laughter] So I know who I am having a dashion of but something that you your just yourself has seen who would believe you want to have that legitimacy you want to have that one more person witness >> so I am calling guruna please come run [laughter] so Gurunata and his wife were just slight at slight distance from us they come running around and I'm trying to show them what I see in her eyes they couldn't >> they couldn't Okay.
(09:02) But Amma speaks with Gurunadha and Moima his wife myself um raining obviously but then she shows us the direction to Hikop. I don't know what bow I was in at that point of time and again while I'm talking to you I'm so excited right now. Um so she gives us the way towards the mountain. Now it is dusk jungles so it's all dark plus raining leeches are all over our bodies.
(09:27) We are just praying Dvi [laughter] please call me please call us please give us shelter and again the second event in the same journey out of nowhere in the dark comes a nandi and we hear tun tun t [laughter] so I we all of a sudden from nowhere in the dark appears Anundi I wouldn't say we catch hold of or we saw nana from from nowhere instantaneously I don't know what happened but that nandi took a U-turn and started to run on the opposite direction.
(10:00) We followed two minutes, not even two minutes, we found the temple. >> Okay. >> Just two minutes we found Babai's Kya. It drops us to the Kya. Babai is waiting for us. Raining again. Oh, Kashmir Baba. He calls me Kashmir Baba. Abby, we were waiting from I don't know uh where were you guys stuck? All that stuff happened.
(10:22) So, this is how we reach that place already. Two experiences, right? Now third experience and the same trip and we couldn't even do the dash of Dvi that evening because by the time we reached there was already 8. So we thought of doing it in the morning tomorrow after the night. So we are sitting in front of the duna we are having this conversation we are lighting some chilam all of a sudden shloka baba gi and I will show you the picture of babai gi later on after the podcast he turns blue.
(10:50) We have the dana of dvi in babai gi one more time. Oh, how did you know? Because of the blue or just recognition, some recognition. >> The voice changed, the eyes changed, his the color of the body changed to blue. What do you want? I was, you know, near to the duna. I was just laying like this in the in some pose also tired. I was listening to him.
(11:10) I was doing less of talking because I had already spoken with him. Gurunata's first time. So these were these two people were doing the interaction. I was basking in the conversation or absorbing the thoughts and I just like I sit like this up. Gurunatai is like in awe also. So well he does the sashtanga I do the pranama in my heart a couple of minutes or probably lesser than that.
(11:38) That time Baba G said a few things about what Gurunata had wished that he would talk to Baba G about it hasn't still been spoken to him about but then he starts talking about go with a lavender this place this all that happened within a minute and a half 2 minutes and things become normal again and we are >> so this is these are three events just on the way to Babai and while being at Babai's little Kya on the way back there are a couple of more it is just Crazy.
(12:05) So you talk about you started with this share experiences there are every event is an experience loca in which ordinary event if you have been able to found that profoundness I think that defines your experience that's how profound our experience has become while on the way back down shloka I see there is there is a tree the tree has like a prong like this in this prong there is a mountain goat which is stuck with the neck hanging in the air somehow it would have fallen down right mountain goat >> sure yeah >> my heart came out of my my [snorts]
(12:37) mouth. I mean you could feel the pain of the it had froth coming out of its mouth. It was you know always very jittery almost struggling with life. >> Again I shout guru >> they thought something else happened some other uh amaka comes but anyway so this goat was there um somehow we figured out our own gymnastics to to save that goat. Uh we got hurt.
(13:04) Gurunatha got hurt all that thing happened but because of that goat shloka something else happened I wouldn't want to say on the camera or but the same trip while we are approaching the village where we have parked the car that goat does something to save our life >> oh wow okay >> so three two days 3 days worth of trip into the mountains and how many experiences that we just spoke of and this could be ordinary to some ordinary eyes it was just not ordinary to me because I could see what is happening right then and
(13:34) There's no way I would forget that. >> Yvraachi, make me understand the landscape of Chvism. As I understand, there is Devatism which is more dominant in the south of India. There is trick and there's adva which is more dominant in the north of India. Help me understand the distinction between ada and start. I would also want to pay my salutations to Dvi the parasaki as well as Shiva.
(14:02) So pain salutations to all these three trika we start this conversation. All right in the advent of saty yoga or one of those chhatar yogas whenever they begin and they always begin with slight difference. Okay. So we have a concept of time which is cyclical in nature but the cycle is not one kind of cycle. There's a slight difference and that is why all the chhatra yoga they have almost similar stories but slightly different.
(14:30) You probably would have heard about kagbushundi who mentions to narada once in one of these conversations that I've had so many raaya passing through my eyes. I don't know how many times I forgot. >> Oh >> yeah there are 13 14 15 or 16 different kind of ramayas. The same Rama, same sittita, almost similar story. Probably the geography is a little bit different.
(14:48) Probably the characters are tiny bit different but the similar story revolves. So in the beginning of one of those sati yoga somebody appears h somebody appears with five different mukha or five different faces with five different kio. We call him param we call him shriantat. We call him by different names. Now he has five different mukah.
(15:12) Most of the people who are into shavism they would at least resonate with Isana deva tpurusha ahoradva vamaade dva and then sadhyujada. These are five different mukha or faces of shiva. Five different manifestations of the same para energy. Para is something which is beyond us. Uh para comes from the word para.
(15:36) >> Oh wow. >> Okay. So now these five different faces are there in a figure and then they start talking about tantra. So whatever they speak each individual muka or each individual face when they start talking whatever is being talked it's called tantra. So initially all those five individual faces are talking about something which we know as one tantra.
(15:59) Second lineage of tantra then there are five lineages of tantra and this is only shreva tantra. Now the next stage two mouths they join up and then they start uttering another version or lineage of tantra. First and the second they start uttering another lineage of tantra. Second and the third they start with another lineage of tantra.
(16:20) Third and the fourth similarly fourth and the fifth. Then 1 2 3 put together they come out with another lineage of tantra. 2 three four they come out with another lineage. So this is this is vast. And then there are different lineages of tantra. There are gpati tantra. There are shakta tantras, there are vaynav tantras, right? I am just a student of a very fragmented one lineage from the entire gigantic umbrella of uh what we know as shism.
(16:49) I am a humble student of Kashmiri shavism which is monistic in nature where there is no dwa there is one. So everything actually comes out of from the same para that we just mentioned and dissolves into the same para. We know that para as Shiva or paras Shiva. There are in basics fundamental three different kinds of shavism. One is dwita dwita which is dualistic as well as monastic in nature.
(17:18) Then one is absolutely dualistic in nature which is called shriva tantra. And then there are different scriptures for just shva tantras. There are 10 11 out of them. Then you have rdra tantras and then you have bhav tantras which are 64 in nature and they are absolutely monastic in nature which is singular which always tells you that you are Shiva or I am Shiva.
(17:36) >> What I found fascinating about the trick tantra was that in your words Shiva is now seeing the world through Shaki's eyes. Shiva is recognizing his grandiosity and vasa. >> Yes. >> Through Shaki. Help me understand the different if I may add interesting and exciting facets of trick tantra that you think the viewers might like to listen to.
(17:59) >> Shiva is manifesting the whole world. Of course we understand this the entire sphere that we experience this life in is Shaki's sphere. I think we have had this conversation and I was telling you before if Shiva had created this world it would be a boring boring world because there is no action in it.
(18:14) The moment Shiva is into action, it's in the sphere of Shaki. And the Shaki is not different from Shiva. It is his shy through which he does the whole manifestation. And this manifestation also has a reason. So we have a concept of eight davis, eight raw manifestations of the para energy or parasy. And these eight energies or shis or davies, they also hang around with their eight davis.
(18:39) Aa >> so then it becomes 64 in nature. Right. >> Uhhuh. You know your Raji you had spoken about deathless yogis right? Yes, >> of course there's Mahaftar Babai. There is also in the Nat tradition the Goraknat. >> Goraknath. >> Goraknat or Gorakna. I mean either way. >> The name is Goraka. >> Okay. >> Gau Raka. >> Tell me about some of these deathless yogis that we know in our you know tradition and especially the contemporary ones if you can let me know of any.
(19:04) >> You tell me Shloka what do you how do you define death? >> I don't think there is any actual death because life just goes on and on and on and on. There's only the body that's perishing. Let's say in the contemporary meaning of what we talking about death is leaving this particular body >> correct >> the one that we experience.
(19:19) >> Yeah. >> And if this is a tool you know you cannot work with one tool for all the mechanics of it. So this is a tool which we at one have to leave once the realization is there that now I think uh this is not the road where I can drive the car. I think a bicycle is great. >> So you switch to bicycle.
(19:40) It's just the tool that you've changed, the machine that you've changed. Similarly with death, >> there are people who would or when you or when I realize that my infinitess is being limited by this finitness, would you be happy with this? No tool. >> It's going to be stifling. Yeah, >> you're going to break free. >> Yeah, >> there are many souls like that who want to break free.
(20:04) Some of them they have broken free. We call them as deathless masters or Amar yogi or chiranji yogi. You have hacked the code of life. So you could regenerate or keep playing with the same life forces for I don't know how many >> years >> years together it's you and I with the help of the shar. I'm saying help for I wonder what buth with the help of the shar we lose a lot of life force every moment through all the nine chiddra that we have in our body what's the point of having a bowl with five different holes you keep filling it with water it never
(20:40) is >> so deathless yogi in fact I am going to one of my gurus in to Kerala right now um and through you I would want to let other people or tickle their fancies people should go and Google Prabhakar Siddha >> 148 years or something >> 700 and uh >> Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah >> 30 yeah yeah he's around >> you have heard right >> yeah yeah >> so he is the guru of my guru >> okay okay okay wow he's around right >> he is >> in his he's lived 7 and so many years >> lived 730 odd years in 13 odd different bodies so he has been changing bodies
(21:18) >> oh my god >> and different identities but you know how to >> like like how Adishanka and all did >> yes But that happened just once and for an experience he's been living. >> God >> and there are many by the way. >> So help me explain this this Prabhakar gi um you and you say different bodies meaning his one body perishes and then he goes to another body or while his body is existing and preserved he goes to another body then comes back.
(21:39) >> You are not the body that we all we are clear with this. Now to enter or the perk kaya pravesa is another sadhana in tantra where you enter somebody else's ga which means body per kaya not my kaya not my body pravesa entering the paraya praves can happen in both the ways either you putting your own shar safe however [snorts] and in a in a way that it could hold life again and then you enter somebody else's body and it could be any body >> dead body or life body >> life body dead body, light body.
(22:12) >> Yes. And not even necessarily a human body, a plant body, animal body. >> Oh, >> right. It's just per kaya. >> You are not limited or your faculties, us are not limited with the kind of faculties one body contains. Like our body in a human shar has a different faculty than a let's say an elephants or cows or di or yaka.
(22:37) Everybody has a kind of shar made out of different elements. The faculties are different as well. Most of the species who we see roaming around on earth par again they are made out of the same five elements different proportions slightly different faculties also. Some species can feel pain differently and than you pleasure differently or hunger differently than you and I.
(23:04) So faculties change but us the satya the us can take anybody. Us is not is limited by faculties be it external or internal be it gross or subtle. It is not confined to those faculties. So you could enter many bodies or you could regenerate bodies for yourself >> physically regenerate >> physically you wanted to speak about Mahavar Babai.
(23:27) Now recently I also mentioned that I want to speak of him or about him. um not so much in detail that I know uh and that I know I want to call it as detail but well that could be just a very superficial knowledge that I also have right we have in the parumpara that I am also initiated into I am initiated into four different parampas and lineages >> juba nat and shar yeah so in one of them uh shiva is called adi shaktiata or adha yeah so I remember um I was telling you about a little bit of whatever my superficial knowledge about Baba G is
(24:02) and I wonder why do we call him Maha Avatar Baba G everybody is an avdar you could become Maha or Parama avatar avatar means descension avatar means descending right descending from where somewhere higher up right so where are you descending from and then where are you ascending to it's a question from one of the experiences that I know firsthand through my guru is babai gi is not alone no babai gi can be alone by the way all baba g's are going to have their shies either within inside them or sitting next to them. Vamangi
(24:34) >> when you say Babais you mean mystics and yogis right >> all the Babais so we call Mahavtar Babai also Baba or Adinatu right so let's say uh would uh so this story okay um um Gurunata is doing his uh sadhana in Satopant another high pass in the higher mountains of Utakand so when he receives the first dashana of Babai in whichever form it was you know the first question that comes out of his mind brain I wonder what whatever you want to call it because that is a that's a state wherein this doesn't work logics don't work but in in
(25:11) his own words he goes baba do you have a bubby or a baby [laughter] or are you are you all alone something like this this would have cropped up in his mind brains whatever and uh next moment there is a shadow which comes out of Babai and goes back in that is the shaky baby or babi. >> So each one of us actually have our own Babi inside us.
(25:43) Some choose to also have them next to them like Shiva and Parvati like Ram and Sitha like Krishna and a Radha. Some may just choose to have that shy within inside them and then work on it. Kundalini >> understood. So my understanding of Baba Gi again um I have I personally have just had glimpses of him knowing that he was around somewhere knowing that there was a presence a couple of times but more than that no now of late just about a month back I don't know from where somebody had received a picture of Babai which you will never ever shloka find in
(26:22) any website of the internet and I will show you that picture and how I have had the superficial experience of Babai that is the closest picture that I could have ever found. I don't know if I want to speak about him in more detail than this or not. Number one, there are many smokes around the stories of Baba Gi >> and I'm talking about Mahavar Baba Gi right now >> from different books from different biases from their own spectacles from their own fancy no um and then a lot of other people that I have interacted
(26:52) personally with I find that they are lying through their teeth. I mean I look at them I know what you're talking right but what would I do? Uh fancies are fancies you could laugh at them but then there are many other yogis who trans who have transcended the normal average human lifespan and uh it could be miraculous to a lot of other people.
(27:12) There are many stories we hear about 250 300 700 800 ashwatama >> I mean aimony also for that matter. >> Yes there are children's there have been thousands of years but in whose years? Human years. >> Human years. Yeah, but not in the physical form, right? Or maybe in the physical form. >> Why not? >> After changing bodies, >> uh, could be not, maybe not.
(27:32) >> Or the same body. The same body could also live for 700 years, 10,000 years. >> Yes, 100%. If you know how to regenerate your own body and if you do not lose energy if your body knows how to keep regenerating itself forever, why would it leave? Why would it decompose? Why would it age? Before we get into the practices bit, when we look at trishul for example, trishul is supposed to be a very central symbol of trick and I remember in one of the conversations you mentioned that there are three shakis and there is some
(28:03) connection between the two right shaki is a very integral part of trick. So can you explain to me this whole dynamic of shi in trick? >> There are many triads in tricka that is why it is called trka means three. So there is another story in Kashmir shavism or trika that we talked about five different mukha or faces or ka of Shiva.
(28:24) Then we have five different attributes of Shiva. So who do we call Shiva? So the scholars or the rishies they gave five different unique attributes to something that they call Shiva and only if you have those five attributes you are Shiva. So what are these five things that Shiva can do? So Shiva has five shies.
(28:47) So cha shaky, ananda shaky and then there are three others it's called ikashaki ghana shaki and kria shaki. So somebody who has all these five energies or shaky in absolute and can use it at its will which is another shaky called swatantria shaky which is independent. So there are another five things that Shiva can do what are those five things so Shiva can create shishi in Hindi.
(29:10) Shiva can also preserve what he has created. It's called stiti samhara dissolution. That's what Shiva can do. And then there are another two attributes of Shiva or shisi of Shiva through which one is concealment. So after the creation, the preservation, the dissolution, this whole cycle is continuing. But you cannot see Shiva in it.
(29:32) Can you find it's concealed? But it is also available to those who are seeking. So it is the grace through which Shiva unfolds his Shiva twa to you, to me, to everybody. So how do we take out those layers to realize that we are Shiva. So this is the last shy of unfolding which is also called grace. So there are so many uh >> facets >> facets of Shiva.
(29:53) Now in trika we talk about many different three. So we started with how is the shishi coming into picture. >> So we in the Kashmir shism we have 36 different elements or in Hindi you call tatwa. I think vdanta has 24 or 25. We have slabbed another 11 on top of it. Um so in the top five from the 36th element where Shiva resides all the way until the last element which is the prituvi element earth.
(30:19) >> So there are there are 36 different elements and each one is important once you understand and I was telling somebody just about yesterday memorizing these 36 elements is one thing right but seeing through these 36 elements because we live our life in 23 23 elements starting from the pitu element which is the earth all the way until >> purusha.
(30:37) >> Okay. So we experience the entire experience of life in 23 different elements. >> Birth to death. >> No, not really. It's that is birth to death is a journey. >> Mhm. >> Elements would be like five different elements called punchabha. >> Yeah. Earth, fire, wind, water, space. >> Right. >> Then you go to the subtler elements.
(30:59) >> Okay. >> Right. So we start with the punch mahabhutas which is the grossest is earth. Then you go a little up you get water. Then you go a little higher up you get fired and then accasha. Accasha which is ether is an element wherein all those remaining four elements are sort of are doing their play.
(31:16) So this provides a space for the remaining four elements to do their play. And who is playing with these four or five elements is prai which is under purusha which is again the 23rd tatwa. Then we go a little higher up from the five grosser elements we get five subtler elements. >> So you and I right now are in gross elements.
(31:37) We experience and perceive the world in the five grosser elements. In fact, we can't even see accasha. >> Correct? >> Even if we see accasha when we try to approach accasha is further up. Correct? >> Or is further somewhere in any direction all the eight directions. >> So we don't approach accasha. It is is perceivable but unapproachable.
(31:57) Now we go a little bit higher up from these five elements. We have another five subtler elements uh which is called indria. So we also have different indria which is let's say faculties through which we experience these elements. How would you experience ruper or form if he did not have eyes now beyond that there are another 11 elements which kashmir shaism or trika tantra slaps over >> so beyond purusha.
(32:25) So let's go up to the purusha element where you and I are individual under which the priti lies and procriti also plays with three different elements which is manas or manu bddhi and amar. So all these three subtler even more far subtler elements that we live in or we experience our lives we have an access to sort of >> manipulate them >> manipulate or work around with them.
(32:48) People say man is not controllable but we we do try to control man. This is one of those things we do in pranayyama or different different practices in spirituality. This is one thing that we try to have a control on buddhi. Yeah. Aama which is I the iness in everything. Uh so these three plusi and purusha makes about 23 different elements which we are experiencing right now.
(33:12) >> So it's beautiful also I mean in the course of the conversation from the 36th element which is Shiva which we know we are and we experience this whole shishi in the 23 different elements. Our job is to do what? If Shiva has manifested from the Sadasha state all the way to the five grosser elements all the way down to Pritwi, there must be a road map to go find Shiva. This is the same road.
(33:32) >> It's the same staircase. >> What are these 11 fatwas you write? >> So after praerti and purusha, there are other five they're called kuncha. I don't know what they called in English. >> Limitations. >> Limitations. Um so those limitations are on purusha. That is why a purusha is an individual limited soul.
(33:49) Sometimes it could be or most of the times it could be the limitation of geography the place >> okay >> like you and I cannot be at two different places at one point of time >> right and limitations of time color limitations of knowledge color limitations of energy >> so all these five different limitations that we have uh ensures that purusha is a is uh >> an illusion yeah >> not illusion but it's limited why do we feel so incomplete Right? We always have this feeling of something more.
(34:23) Let's just invest our time into something, some activity, something else, something else. That something else isn't completeness. That is why you know that you're not Shiva because Shiva is pul it is not looking for anything else. It is it is not desiring for anything that he doesn't have. We don't have a lot of things. Now let's come back to limitations.
(34:40) All these five limitations are kept with something called Maya. So after pura then there are another five then there is maya after maya then there are five other elements let's start with the top so it's sadasha or shiva the first 36 tatwa is shiva itself when shiva realizes that he is Shiva even just the realization of it is an act in the movies you know when somebody cracks up with a memory you know he wakes up or she wakes up in the hospital but who am I >> the identity right so the moment you identify that whatever you are that
(35:13) realization is another act. This is an act of realization who you are. When Shiva realizes forget about even manifestation and you know k and everything else comes way down the line but even the realization is called bimber or prati bimber there are many terms to it shloka it's um praasha and vimera is another term that we use in kashmir shvism praash means lights and vimea means something which the light has been reflected upon otherwise there is no light if there is you cannot perceive light if there is no reflection
(35:43) happening right so the moment reflection happens that's a vimmer or shi And from here onwards the shi sphere starts. Of course not different from Shiva. It's Shiva's shi because now Shiva is a realized Shiva. It's the sphere of shaky which begins >> and that's an act. It's an act because that's not his natural self.
(36:02) It is reflecting realization. >> Realization also is not the natural self. Right. >> So in the there is a there's a school of philosophy under Kashmir shaism. It's called prati bimba vada or pratyavna or different other schools. In pratya vigna they tell you that you got to realize your shiva.
(36:18) How would you do that? There are many many um layers that you got to uncover. It's like peeling an onion. Another is praty bimbuada wherein they say that this entire shishi or the entire universe is a reflection of Shiva. So what is it is a reflection reflection of Shiva. Recognition of Shiva. So imagine there is a cognition already which exists.
(36:41) We are recognizing right? Okay. So um and that is why if it is the reflection of Shiva all the way down to the 36th tatwa which is pritvi or earth when we perceive because we are experiencing from the right bottom of the pit we experience the opposite of reflection which is the pritwa first and then the last is shiva it's reflection okay so now come down to shaki sphere which is just the second element of it now she I wouldn't say bifurcate bifurcates herself in different kario or kar because it's Shiva's primary Shaky it would also want to do a lot of
(37:15) things like our own energy we take how many different kio do we do with the same shi in the jagrata the millions of things right shaky does a millions of things so even when we put ourselves into a certain act or an action we have this will or desire to begin with right and then we would come to the next state of evolution would be or next stage of evolution would be do to gather enough ghana >> for the pranayama or for the act to happen.
(37:47) Yes, >> that is the second shaky. And the third and the last one is and most importantly obviously is the ka shaky where the will and the ghanu contemplation as well as gathering of knowledge is now being or put into execution. So now all these shis combined together one act is happening.
(38:06) Without all these three shakies coming into unison or one sync act cannot happen. >> Correct? >> Right. So now you have five sudhavidya or five subtler elements which is shiva shaky the three different triifications of shaky which is ikra ghan and kria. After that now comes the layer of maya and from there everything else is ashudha >> because it has kukas >> because it has got kukas and it's got a layer of maya into it and it's limited.
(38:32) >> Why does the layer of maya come after that? Mhm. Imagine let me ask another question. We all are Shiva, right? Um, so why is it that Shiva can create and we cannot create? Well, you're going to ask me a counter question. Why do you say that we don't create? We also do create. We create a lot of things.
(38:46) We have created this whole world. We have created this microphone chair and everything else, right? But to create something like this, we needed something else. We just changed the form and the structure of the same metal of the same Shiva. And we like to believe that we created things but the creation is already happening from something which is created >> right we're changing the structure and the form of it.
(39:11) So we aren't fully Shiva >> because Shiva is something who wouldn't really require something else uh to build something else. So for you and I to look at our prati bimbo we need another object a reflector. Here in this case Shiva doesn't need a reflector because if if Shiva needs a mirror to look at himself there is already something else than Shiva.
(39:31) >> Yes. >> Right. >> Yes. >> This cannot happen. So Shiva is basically reflecting himself into himself. >> Can this be done by us? Can we fathom it from our human mind? Um not really. Our mind exists sloka because we want and we see the world in polarity. Right? There is hot and cold and in between hot and cold.
(39:54) The absolute hot and cold is where our perception resides. Mind exists because of this polarity. Mind is not accustomed to even think of singularity which is Shiva. >> Ah >> so this mind has to be traversed. This has to be penetrated. This has to cross. Mana buddhi yamara mana buddhiara buddhi and mana has to be crossed for the pura to break off these limitations they are lying on top of before it goes to the world of maya and then another penetration well eventually at the end of the day with the his grace only you realize that you are Shiva or you know
(40:28) that you are Shiva >> Gangotri is your chetra of sadha very interesting this um analogy came to me when I was doing research key gangri is the mature Ganga right and the source of gummri supposed to be in Komok which is upstream 18 km in comok. >> Yes. >> However, hydraologically that is still not the source.
(40:44) >> Yes. So what's the source? I want to know from you what you know. [laughter] >> So where is the source coming from? You're coming back from there by the way. >> No. Like are you geographically asking me? >> Yes. >> Aker >> Mansur. >> Manurv. But geologists say that there is no actual source. It's not been found.
(40:59) >> You will find out. >> Yes. There's got to be let's just say sphere or the layer of water within inside or underneath the surface of earth like there are so many different metals everything resides within inside the gerba of pritu water would also be something like that and there could be many different water channels that appear to us on the surface of it as different water channels they would be one source somewhere underground I'm not saying all of but a few of Manurva actually is a source of a few more rivers including Indas including
(41:34) Saraswati. Coming back to Gangri. Yeah. >> Gangotri is not also where Ganga comes from. We call it Gangotri because Bhagirati comes from there and then mixes up or joins Mandakini later down the line then Alakanda later down the line. There are many many different channels of rivers in that axetra which collectively is called Ganga.
(41:55) There is something called ai Ganga. There are 80 different streams. [laughter] All of them need to become Ganga. However, let's just go back to Gmuk. It's a we say that it is a source of Ganga at least from where the water feels like coming out from that small tiny cave about 17 odd kilometers above Gang >> Gangotri temple and then there is another place called Tapoan the five six km above and then Nandan one that is where one of my guru G actually just went.
(42:24) So I'm coming back from Gangotri just two days before. Okay. [laughter] Okay. >> So, I wanted to spend some time in my cave and uh well, I I could >> Oh, you have a cave. Is it >> small one? Yes. >> What do you do in that cave? >> Nothing. >> Nice. I like that. >> Yes. [laughter and gasps] Um I mean that's that's one place that gives you the time to be yourself.
(42:41) The less exchange or interaction with the outside world. >> But why is that a problem? That's Shaki. No. Or that's Shiva. >> It is. But Shaki is going to corrupt you if you're not >> retreating. >> If you're not Shiva yourself. >> Okay. In fact when I was there in Gangotri for about 10 days right now I was privileged uh to meet a couple of sadus who were coming back from tapoan and they shared their I mean obviously when two people sit down you would want to share each other's experiences uh and I got talking obviously because I would
(43:07) like to absorb as much as through their experiences there are unexplored places or less explored places uh in this pritvi in this bhu loga which give us profound is just an adjective uh experiences that you know you never not exist. >> Aa >> I am trembling right now. It's one of my experiences.
(43:27) Again, the reason why I'm very connected to that particular cave in Gangotri is not because I also think to myself, am I limiting myself in one place? It is a limitation. Correct. Correct. Why am I running back to one particular place? I call it a gerba. I call it my womb, my second womb. But why that place only? I could create that same energy anywhere else where I am.
(43:46) But I am still limited. Thankfully and gladly, I know my limitations right now. and I can self-evaluate myself to know that I have that limitation of geography. So I run back to that goofa all the time. That goofa is important to me because I've had some experiences. One of those experiences was a sakshhat of hanumanji uh with my eyes closed as well as open.
(44:06) >> I am just trembling right now. It's blissful. It's more than you and I can contain. >> In trickantra what I really liked was it's very apt for people in the modern day life because it sort of is open-minded to be very simplistically put right. uh you don't have to abstain from pleasure.
(44:22) You don't have to abstain from anger. You don't have to abstain from the rawness of emotions. Everything can be sadena. Every facet of your day-to-day life from morning to night can be sad. Yawning can be sad. Laughing can be sad. Sneezing can be sad. Right? Eating all of that can be sad. If I want to get to that state, can you give us some techniques that people could maybe grasp online that could help them towards this journey? >> Let me try and structure it well so it goes out to only those people who are really absolutely in the preliminary
(44:48) stage. Yeah. >> So in the whole scheme of things in Kashmir Shavism and you beautifully put there is a coordinate where you know you are and then there is a coordinate where you know where you have to reach. It's like the GPS right? In tratantra we have four different kinds of upayo. Upaya in English means um way.
(45:05) There are four vedas in sanatan dharma and then there are upuvedas, there are aranas, there are brahmanas, then there are many many you know bifurcations or or a stream of it which would just give you the same knowledge which is coded in the vedas but it's explained in a certain way. Okay.
(45:20) Then we have another lineage which is agamic in nature which is u you know it could be either vaynava agama it could be either shva agama rdra agma behavma shaka agamas there are many different kind of agamas. So agamas are mostly taken into account by people who are following tantraism or tantra. Okay everything which comes out of the muk of shiva is an agamma itself.
(45:44) So we follow argamic lineage and there's a it's it's not like they are very different from each other. It's they are different slightly but not at conflict with each other. They both make you realize the the slice of the same truth or then that slice could become bigger depending of our expansion of consciousness.
(46:03) So we could be a tiny bit Shiva or Batukhara or we could be Kalaha. [laughter] Okay. So there is there is this whole spectrum that we can experience this expansion into. Okay. So now in the Aamic literature when Shiva is doing the creation or doing the manifestation through his own shy and many different kinds of shi going down the line it is from the absolute most subtlest tatwa it becomes the pritiwa which is the most grossest tatwa which is earth element right so our journey and we are called sharira we are parv in nature right
(46:36) because 50% of us is earth element from priti all the way until the shvatwa there is a journey And then there's a road map which Kashmir shavism beautifully gives you. Um so we were talking about there are three different upay four different upay. We cut down the fourth because well it's not an upaya because you and I are not doing it.
(46:55) It's just happening because of the grace of Shiva. It just happens. There are three different upay. At the top of it sits shambhopaya or the way of shambhu. The next one is shhataya which is the way of shi or the sphere or the house of shi. The next one is anopaya which is the house of atomic beings like us you and I. Ja u by the way in the in the scheme of things in tra it's also called trrika because there are three different major categories in which the entire shishi is divided.
(47:24) Shiva shivas shaki and then everything else which shi created is ja >> everything else except shiva and shivas shaki is jva. It could be planets, it could be milky ways, it could be anything else. It could be as little as an ant. Everything is ja. You and I are ja and we are apura. Every ja is aura shiva. >> Okay. >> So for us or people who are experiencing this entire shishi in this frame of mind uh very connected to the objectivity we are ja and our journey from jvatwa to shivatwa is the journey that we got to undertake. So the first set of upayas
(48:00) the Kashmir shavas Modria talks about is a lot to do with externality of you because Shiva is now being external that is how it has manifested and become whatever it is to perceive. So this external journey has to be from external which is the dwetto wherein I know that I am this and I am doing these these these these things.
(48:22) It could be either yajna or doing you know your shya your mudras your mudras your chant chanting of mantras your >> your [snorts] dana your yama nyama asa pranayama everything else you know everything external in nature which is to put you to that singleointedness of singularity if at all if in one or whichever lifetime we cross this school or we pass this uh external >> yes externality of it then we come to dwa which is also called para para uh because this is the shi that we use to then go to the next school of evolution.
(48:59) It's called the house of shaky or the p of shaki or shaktoaya where you basically internalize all those external activities that you were engaged into. you have found that singleointedness of your mind and you're trying to just establish your connection a little more deeper every time you do it.
(49:23) It could be like an example um when we sit for dana we do a few things like we would probably clean our hands, wash our feet, close our eyes, you know do a little bit of mudra and etc etc. People would have different activities before they want to put themselves into the state of dhana and then there is a journey and the journey puts you into that state of dhana. This happens in shakupaya.
(49:47) In shamhavaya you don't have to do anything. You don't have to focus yourself in the middle of your eyebrows or your heart chakra or your root chakra or whatever it just happens because of your will. Remember will then comes ghanu which is the knowledge and then ka. So all these three upayas are also crea gan and iika based that is why they're also called the bottom of it is creoaya which is happening because of so many activities that we are engaging into.
(50:18) Now uh activities are a little subtler and that is where the ganopaya comes into picture. Now there the top of it sitsaya you have to just will to be merged with that thing and you are right there beyond which we were talking about this anupaya. Anupaya is again it's the will of shambhu. He graces you or me or anybody else and you just hit the realization that you are Shiva.
(50:40) It's just the memory that you recognize. Oh, I wasn't sloka. [laughter] >> How do we get there? >> It is a a kula system >> in which there are many different kulas and kulas are of Dvi. >> Yeah. >> So you basically and remember we were talking about how the the road or the arch [laughter] >> to enter the Shiva's sphere is shi.
(51:03) Correct. >> Right. Without crossing that sphere or without approaching or without having that shy, you cannot be Shiva. Shiva is the holder of Shaki. So the only way we would be able to enter that sphere of Shiva or realize our Shivatwa is through the sphere of Shy. Different houses of Shruy.
(51:21) That is what you get initiated into if you are into kawa or kula system which is very intertwined with the kashmir shavism or trka tantra because eventually in the beginning of the tra system when it came down into picture shiva basically gives this ghan to shrianta okay another form of shiva. So okay in even in trka system there are five different kinds of guru shisha relationship which are mentioned >> so how does the shhatipa happens from the guru or from the giver to the receiver who is a sisha so there are five different kinds of bonds they talk
(51:54) about right in Hindi I don't know what it's called but bond samandha maha samandaha right that's when [snorts] Shiva gives that one jolt of 14,000 voltage of current to you or I'm just for the for the for the sake of it. But then that is where you cannot hold that ship in your own physical uh body. Then this becomes a prison. You got to leave.
(52:18) You cannot contain that energy in your physical body. The next kind of uh guru sisha sabandha uh would be dya sambha where you are able to contain that energy but you are in trance. I mean you are not you. There is another one which even tops all that you know even in the human form if there is a guru and sisha and if they are able to while the dika is happening or the shaktipata is happening if they both have merged into each other [laughter] >> this is considered by mahachara gupta and the proponents of kashmir shaism is
(52:50) even better than the divine samanda >> aa >> if this could happen but it doesn't happen you know what we are human beings and no matter what even while I'm talking to you or interaction is happening there is There would probably be one minuscule part of our brains which would be putting you in a certain compartment.
(53:09) How is shloka? What is shloka? What could she be? All that thing keeps happening. Even when we meet with our guru and when we have these sort of conversations, there is always a slice of our mind which would be judging that guru. [laughter] >> Why is that guru like this? Ah, he is wearing black today. He didn't shower today also. All these things you know we keep gathering these information or impressions about even the guru that we are receiving things from.
(53:34) Similarly it goes with the guru. Guru is also thinking what kind of sa I'm going to initiate into what if he's not deserving what if he has something otherwise in his head who knows all these thoughts or impressions that creates that barrier or that not because of which the guru and the sisha that merger doesn't happen.
(53:56) It's the same thing with I that I doesn't die I that I want to be Shiva until the time this I is there you cannot recognize your Shivadwa right um so these are not so we create our own knots to spoil what could have come our way I wouldn't you started with this question as to you know if I could give some >> techniques >> techniques >> the regular techniques at least even in the anovopio which is the externalization of all the rituals and all the acts and actions yeah >> it's very uh surprising ly similar to hat yoga.
(54:26) >> Okay. >> You know, we also have certain pranayams. We also have certain mudras and ashas. We also have certain guru mantras. Uh and this will be different from you and I even if we are you know uh following the same achara because our gurus could be different because our davies could be different.
(54:43) But the ritualistic part of it or the act part of it is very similar to hat yoga. You also have a lot of mantra chanting. You also have a lot of swahadaya. Swadha can also be bifurcated into two different categories. One is to the swah adha which is the adha of self and adha by self which is swadhaya.
(55:04) This also comes into picture. Then there is the grace of guru and shiva 25% here as abhinoga says in this pupaya or the school of evolution to the next stage you are putting your 75%. The guru puts 25 in the next one shaktupaya the guru puts 50 you put 50 in the shamapaya it's only the guru who does it so yours is just 25% will left what is the will for to surrender yourself at the feet of the guru >> there is another story okay about shiva I think your audience is going to like so one of these yoga there are a bunch of maharishies you know really realized
(55:40) rishies along with their kids and wife in the jungle they're doing their tapas they were doing their tapas for shiva SA says all right there are a bunch of these wonderful people who are calling my name trying to reach out to me or trying to find out what is going on. So he takes a form of something which is you know if you see some being like this you wouldn't be able to decipher what this thing is naked yet beautiful elegant it's Shiva right with horns this that etc in the jungle now when he comes around that ashram so let's say there
(56:13) are 10 rishies and 10 rishikas their wives and then some kids they're all doing certain kind of anushana in that time those women were in the kitchen preparing prasadam and everything for everybody else and the rishies and the rishikumar they are doing their own yagna. Shiva starts strolling around the asham.
(56:32) First the women look at him and he and they all look at this beautiful creature. I mean there are no words to naked yet and they are lost in their own thoughts. The thoughts of desire desiring the man and they are consumed in their own world. Now the rishies happen to see Shiva and they also see a crazy kind of creature yet eloquent, beautiful, radiating and then they see their wives and then they know that their wives are thinking about this man.
(56:57) [laughter] Now imagine what they must be thinking they are rishikas they are not normal women also. So they're thinking who is this creature and we have been doing this tapasa from I don't know how donkey's years trying to attain Shiva. We all have been engaged in the same act.
(57:13) Now see the women, our women, they are lusting over a creature who is not even beautiful, radiant. Okay, great. So let's just uh curse him. So all 10 of them they group together. They started to curse Shiva. How come you are like this in this aasta around you know a particular asham which is full of rishies. You know we all are doing a certain anushana. This is a satic place.
(57:34) You know in their own understanding Shiva is not bothered and the women are still lusting. >> [laughter] >> Now the next stage of um anger and some more curses some more nothing happens to Shiva. Now they all group together and they're huddling up. They're trying to find out who this creature could be because we are Braharies.
(57:55) Then one says you know what I had given curse to Brahma once and he had to. Somebody else says I had cursed Indra a couple of times and he had to. And then they're talking about their own timelines wherein they cursed many different deities and um you know manifestations and they all had to suffer because of their curse and they're wondering who this creature could be who's who's not even taking our curse somebody beyond Brahma they don't know right and Shiva is noticing all those thoughts and thinking huh so these people wanted to
(58:23) become Shiva attain Shiva and what did I do but just by coming here and roaming around near their ashum is two people one now is lusting One is in anger gone. Now he walks off. Now these guys are even more perplexed. Now who had come here? Who was there who did not even suffer our curse? Who was it that you know created so much of anger within inside us? We are rishies and lust in women. They are rishikas.
(58:50) So they thought of uh going to Brahma. So they all go to brahalloca [laughter] and they were like uh parumpita the this is what has happened and uh uh we are still perplexed we don't just know what has happened to us so brahma g is like you know he puts himself in a dhanaa for a moment he realizes who was it and he stands on his lotus wherever it is [laughter] and does the dandavat because he realized who he was and then he gets angry it's like you son of idiots [laughter] You 10 people you call yourself braharishes and you did not realize who
(59:26) had come venturing around your asham. was Shiva and then they all go so they are doing I am sorry Shiva please give me dasha uh we were murka idiots ayani um but nothing happens right Shiva had come given the dasha and gone so the story continues later down the line and of course another bouts of purana another bouts of sadhana this that etc all that happened of course at some point of time they would have attained the shivata or the dishi to realize who Shiva is come to guru guru Guru gives us that clarity. If you were Shiva sitting in
(1:00:01) front of me like this and I did not have the sight to recognize you. How ironic. >> Correct. >> Right. There is nothing called syasa in in Kashmir shavism. >> Oh. >> Or in the whole um gamut of trica or tantra system. How would you define syasa? So syasa um as far as again in my very humble capacity what I understand is it's the nyasa or the establishment or the anchoring in satya.
(1:00:28) Much shiva or you could call it narina call it shhati call it whatever so when you have your yourself established in that truth it's called syaso in contemporary times I think it's more prevalent because we sort of associate syaso with leaving or renouncing things >> correct >> yeah thinking that ni this is not true this is not true this is not true not that not that not that not that so if you are um let's say in this samsara which is again In my humble capacity, I know this as Shiva or the extension or the manifestation of Shiva. Why
(1:01:01) shouldn't I engage with it? >> Engage with it. But you should know when to withdraw and retreat which most of the people don't know because they get caught up and entangled. >> What is a withdrawal from? >> Withdrawal from getting entangled. >> Yes. Yes. >> I mean I mean it that way. >> Yes.
(1:01:15) It's it's like most of us we just don't know how to balance this. Um we have emotions and many many emotions. People think that I am emotionless. It's not like that. Everybody runs because of there are certain emotions in us, right? >> Are the emotions controlling us to psychiatric help >> or are we controlling our emotions? It's the same thing.
(1:01:35) It's a cigarette smoking you or are you smoking the cigarette? It's the same balance when you said >> being being able to engage with the external samsara or you are trying to find out a balance between your engagement and your retreat. So finding that fine-tuned balance where you are the master of shakis within inside you that means you are Shiva.
(1:01:54) >> If you are not then Shaki is playing you all the time >> and that's not the >> that's not the right way to do it's going to irrevocably ruin your life. >> But they say we in shaky how does it matter? >> Uh because shaky needs to be in control. If if Shaki is out of control it is just going to cause uh >> havoc.
(1:02:11) [laughter] Can you give us any one technique that could help us at least work towards the Shiva tatwa? M there are many five let's say >> okay >> you know uh I I remember in some time back I was also reading Walmiki Ramayana and I'm very privileged that I've sort of I've been over it like through two three four times and every time that you read a book or every time that you read a poetry or anything else right you get a little distinct or more profound meaning of the same line similarly it happens with the when you are reading scriptures so I say the first thing
(1:02:44) would need to have uh enough time and dedication to begin your swadha that external suadhaya internal swadhaya takes time but you could start with a book you could start with shiva sutras you could start with shiva purana you could start with the stories of Shiva you could start with the raayana you could start with any other scripture believe me Shiva and Rama they're not different [laughter] okay if you go over to those characters Like if when I was reading Ramayana for the first time, the one character that
(1:03:18) just was stuck to me was Rama. When you go watch a movie, you want to be like the lead actress or the right, you associate your attributes to certain that matches up while you're reading a book like this or any other way. Uh you would want to become like the main character or the lead of the of the story.
(1:03:43) I think it started like that with me. So it helps at one time dity is also mantra >> right a mantra is the manifestation of the dity in the energy form the sound form. So when you chant a particular mantra shloka a slice of or the ounce of that energy also starts to reside within inside you. It's not coming from somewhere up or down.
(1:04:08) It already is within inside us. Right? In tantra our whole body is the universe [snorts] where different sections the rudra the vishnu the uh braha different locas in our body right um anyway so that knowledge or that dity or that energy that blooms within inside us let's say we are doing a shiva mantra or a rahma mantra that ra tatwa will start to bloom within inside you that ram datwa will start growing the more you are consistent with your efforts and your practices one fine Hey, you will be drowning into that ram tatwa which was
(1:04:42) just a singular entity within inside. >> It just grows and drowns everything into that tatwa. So you become a ra maya. [laughter] >> Okay. Okay. So uh suadhaya is great and over and over is good. Swadha I think also brings you closer to the next guide >> probably the next guru. I think japa is also great is also another swadhaya or trying to trying to water that seed which is within inside you or becoming a sapling right now.
(1:05:13) Right? So you water that plant a bit more by chanting the names of whatever deity that you feel connected with cuz I am a shite. Um I would just go namashaya. >> How do you say is it namasha or om namasha? Thank you for asking me this question but through you I would like to also say unless you are initiated into any mantra which has into it okay >> recite >> okay so omnash amnamasha should not be recited by >> never unless you are initiated into a parumpara by a certain guru >> I'm glad you said that >> so if it has been given to you by a guru
(1:05:46) now depends a qualified guru or the non-qualified non-qualified guru if that is how you're getting it well at least you are not acrew in that karma >> it's the guru Uh uh-huh. >> But if a qualified guru is initiating you into a mantra which has or swah or nama uh you bear the fruit because it's coming to you from the whole not just the guru.
(1:06:10) Guru is a madam through which the the mantra comes to you or the rituals come to you or the ghana comes to you but it's coming to him by his guru his guru and it becomes a lineage. The whole lineage if you go the top of it sits Shiva. So you are in some other way through many many ancestry or many um bodies in the same lineage or the gan parumpara you get what is at the top which is Shiva. Okay.
(1:06:38) So if your guru has initiated you into a mantra which has omcar in it uh in whichever pronunciation or intonation that is supposed to be given to you >> you pronounce that omcar in that way. >> There are different versions of the same omar. It's the entire shishi which is encapsulated into this sound. [laughter] [snorts] >> Yeah. Yeah.
(1:06:58) >> So what is and then what is? >> It's the different intonation you use for different purposes of it. Uh on what sound these three and a half sounds that this whole is made of or the is made of uh each carries a particular phonetics a particular sound and by stressing on one particular sound you are stressing on that sort of outcome.
(1:07:24) >> Okay. Like uh is for the beginning, O is for the preservation and ma is the maheshwar which is for the dissolution m and then there is a matra that shi so one of my guru's shloka. So he goes like this when we spoke of these three and a half sounds creating that whole shrishi or when the whole shrishi is encapsulated in this sound.
(1:07:50) remember you uh would very frequently hear about something um they say in the beginning there was shabu it all comes from the sound. Yeah. >> What sound? >> It is all encapsulated in one sound worth three and a half sounds >> or letters. So yeah, one of my gurus, he goes, um, we we hear a lot of people actually go in with Om or other PJO without being initiated into it and without even knowing what it means really, right? What if OM is supposed to take you to the para and you're not still willing to or evolved enough to or not prepared to
(1:08:32) lose or kill that eye. What if your desires are uh going on a on a yacht or a airplane or something else or or engaging with many different kinds of things which are available which isn't wrong either if it is happening in balance but what if your and I not prepared to merge into the Shiva what if I'm not willing or ready to lose that eye but you're doing something which is making sure that everything around you is dying slowly so that I also dies imagine the kind of conflict that somebody would go Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
(1:09:05) Yeah. Yeah. >> Somebody who wants to become a business tycoon and doing something which is slowly killing that everything else which could make him >> into a tycoon. >> Uh that's a conflict. >> Yeah. >> So that's how my guru says don't the best and the safest way is to because the safest mantra is the nama mantra. Any nam there are many.
(1:09:30) Shambhu >> that's a mantra >> and >> any mantra Ramu Ram Rama okay another question >> okay >> Hanumanji >> what does he recite what is his mantra >> okay yeah >> right that is that that's a name but that's a mantra >> and what potent mantra that thing is let's not just get into the rigma roll of am I doing a panchchakari or sodashi or this and that but if I want to attract the shiva tatwa then I will not chant Ram I will chant something to do with the sounds of Shiva right >> you know I used to believe that and I'll tell you a story and I'll but if you
(1:10:01) want to attain Shiva Tatwa you obviously go Shiva Shiva or Paramash Shiva Namash Shivaya Shivayamaha there are many other mantras without the Om or the BJ now the story >> what is a bija is a bjo is a bijjo it's the bjo of the bijjo is a seed of the seeds it's a primary pratam if you want to attract what did you say if you want to attract rama you won't do shiva mantra >> vice versa yeah if I want to attract the shiv >> I have had a very different feeling sloa >> okay >> okay I was uh I was the guy who would uh
(1:10:30) greet you with Jashri Ramo a few years ago >> right and uh I also sort of in the hindsight look back at my journey and I see how I became a shite there is no shite in my family or the family that I'm born into okay the people who are shaka the people who are vaynava I am the only [snorts] dark sheep black sheep whatever so I don't know how and when the switch happened but when I look back in the hindsight I see how it would have happened the moment The Rama tatwa resides in you and becomes bigger. You cannot just say
(1:11:02) Jashri. Who did Rama worship? He goes he's on the way to Lanka. He's in Romeshwaram and uh he wants to worship a dity. He makes a shivering of sand Baluhwaru one temple in Mumbai by the way. [laughter] Balkeshwar they say right? >> Balkeshwar comes from there that >> Baluwar that's Balukhwar >> Baleshwar that stretch that area comes from okay.
(1:11:27) So there remember we were talking about there are many many Ramayanas and has happened in many many timelines. I wonder what timeline is that into what yoga is that into but that's balukeshwar and it's made by Rama. Then there is another one in Rama Ramshwaram. Uh so when he goes he makes a he makes a shivalinga and he worships. >> When you are Rama you will find yourself worshiping Shiva and vice versa again.
(1:11:51) >> Oh vice versa. So Shiva is going to worship Ram. >> Yes. Hasn't he always been? Doesn't he come to take the dash of Ram? When Ram is born in Aayodha, he's eager. When would Narayhanna come in that form so I can go and have a dashana in his human form. So they both reside in each other's heart.
(1:12:11) They both worship each other. I wouldn't have realized if this hadn't happened in my own experience. I spent some time in Uttar Kashi. That's a small town in Uttakhand by the way. And because when we say kashi we obviously associate it with shiva rdra something on those lines right okay and uh the you know in one of those times when I was like a beginner to go into utkashi and spending some time there I would see I mean I see there is a shiva temple I see there is all shenanigans happening but most of the ashams most of the schools
(1:12:41) most of the vidyalas or guruks they're all vashnavite in nature and I was wondering why why isn't there any school which is preaching shavism or Shiva and I used to wonder why how is this Kashi and you know we basically revolving around Vashnivism and not shaveism >> because me coming from a shite thing had this very narrow understanding or vision I realize now how it's because Shiva wants it to worship Rama >> oh this conversation is going to be incomplete without Abhinav Gupta someone I got to know after uh speaking with you
(1:13:15) um so we're talking about 9th or 10th century around that time he's supposed to be master, right? The master of master when it comes to Kashmir shism. Now, he's written this monumental text called the tantra loca in a goofa in a cave in an uninterrupted flow. >> Yeah. >> And these have been verses which have been I think 5,800 to 5,900 verses.
(1:13:34) [clears throat] >> After he finishes this mission, he takes his 12 disciples along, goes into a cave >> only to have never returned. >> Is this true? >> Yes, it is. Um, and I will just expand on the story that you mentioned beautifully also. Abhinav Gupta is um is like Adish Shankara to somebody who is following Vdanta Ada Vanta.
(1:13:56) So Adish Shankara is you know the how do how do you put it um Shankara's avatar. So Abhinav Gupta in his own time when he is being raised by his father his mother had unfortunately died when he was young all of them all people around used to call him Yogini's child the child of the yogini.
(1:14:19) So who is a child of a yogi? A child of a yogi is somebody who is born with the vira of Shiva and the yuni of Shhatrui. So the child of Shiva and Shaki is a child of a yogini. So everybody even when he is you know a child he's a he's a brilliant child right? [snorts] Uh and everybody used to call him as somebody who would probably uh be our master when he grows up.
(1:14:45) So there are a lot of disciples when he is in his youth in his 30s. There are there are disciples of him who are in their 60s and they knew Abhinav Gupta when he is himself a kid. So how is he being trained? Is he just being trained in Kashmir shism or tratantra? No he is not.
(1:15:05) So you beautifully said in the 9th 10th century when Kashmir is at the pinnacle of Ghana all kinds of parumpar all kinds of rituals practices uh dialogues debates are happening in Kashmiretra that time there is Buddhism there it's flourishing there is janism there there is there are parses there is a bit of sanatana there is a there is there are vashnavites there are shakta there are shavites of different kinds tantr doing their own uh there are yogis who have been worshiped.
(1:15:35) So you just can think of whatever is happening in Kashmir at that point of time. It's at the pinnacle of the spiritual or otherwise wealth that is when and in this neighborhood or in this society Abhinav Gupta is born. So when he is a kid he is he comes from a lineage of some wonderful scholarly brahinss.
(1:15:58) So abhinav Gupta in one of I think in tantra loca or tantras I guess I think he defines his name as what my name really means and why am I named like this so abi means is constant nava means new and gupta is hidden something which is constantly happening is shiva but it's hidden that's knowledge which is constantly new but yet hidden so he beautifully describes his name also but anyway so now he's been raised and in this time and neighborhood that he has been raised.
(1:16:30) He goes to different gurus not only studying Veda and other um scriptures in his early childhood by his own parent father but then he also goes to different gurugula and different gurus to to learn the dwighta system dwita adwita system he also learns poetry he also learns nata shastra he learns everything and he's written commentary on it so he's not written just one tantra loca or and then after that tantras and then he goes to the cave no it doesn't happen like that he writes 50 plus odd books in his lifetime. His life is about 58 years.
(1:17:02) That's it. Okay. >> He writes 58 books or 59 books in that lifetime. He doesn't write. So he he utters his students are writing. >> Aa >> um so even when he is under the fold of shavism he does all three kinds of shavism. Now even in tricka or the Kashmir shism there are three and a half different parumparas.
(1:17:24) H one is dwita dwita dwight adwita and then there's one which is coming out from a woman. [laughter] So this is one tantric parumpra which comes from a woman which is the three and a half the third three and a half lineage of which trika is one part. He studies under that woman also. So he has gone to almost all the schools or lineages possible in his lifetime in his geography to study almost everything under the sun which is available.
(1:17:53) after studying all of them being a master of it having many many books written then he comes up with this what I was telling you in the beginning that in his own words he says tr or trashism is the rocket science of everything which you say spirituality or dan shastra it is at the pinnacle of it if you understand this so the other I wouldn't want to say inferior or something but other laws of physics you understand quant quantum you know everything else is put into place.
(1:18:25) You know the Newtonian physics, you know the Einsteinian physics, you know everything else because you have studied the pinnacle of what the Ghana is. So in his words after studying everything and probably writing I don't know how many com commentaries on different parumparay and ghana system uh knowledge system he says kashmir shavism is sitting at the top of it is tricka sits at the top even superseding kala even superseding kula okay >> even superseding normal shavism vashnavism shism everything else put together
(1:18:54) >> he in fact keeps veda at the lowest >> ah >> not because it's inferior because he says vedas are the most crucial scriptures to give you the foundational understanding from where you could develop uh other knowledge. This is the foundation. It's for everybody. Trika is not for everybody.
(1:19:19) Pashupatas are not everybody. Not everybody is an agora, right? It's only a certain number of people who would do a mastery in a certain lineage and become that. You would become a gora. But then he says even after a even after kula even after ka then comes trashism and if you know this you understand everything it just falls into place so beautifully.
(1:19:44) So after writing all that after writing commentary beautiful commentary on Bhagat Gita you must read and through you I'm going to also uh encourage other people to read about at least Google >> I think at the age of 58 or 59 then he along with his some say 12 some say 1200 disciples he goes to one cave that cave is in the subdist called Birva which is a distortion of the Bya in a district Bam of Jammu and Kashmir it's about 40 odd kilometers from the city center in shinagar and anybody who is visiting shinagar and anybody who has even an
(1:20:28) interest and inkling of shavism or knows about a guttar or has ever googled and found that interest must go and pay their visit their salutations to that cave. That cave currently called as Abhinav Gupta cave or Bhirava cave or Birva cave it's a monument it's a place in itself one must depending on their own interest spend some time there feel the energies of the baya there what a place and remember we were talking about how there could be many water channels which appear on top of the ground but well somewhere underneath them may have
(1:21:02) a similar source >> we have a concept of ashya >> eight bhyas right and they all are in a grid Bhavvas are protectors rightetra palas they're protecting a particular axetra and if this is aetra so imagine a district may have eight different subdists so who is protecting those subdists those eight different bairaas in the same grid now the main grid is the main baya people must go to this abnavagupta cave or bhrava cave read about a gupta read a little about I say a little very carefully because he's done so much of work there is no way
(1:21:39) possible in one lifetime you could even study him. Um so people must do all that and through your channel I would I would urge in case if there are some other people who are watching must preserve conserve that also because it's just going to close. >> Okay. Okay. My last question just parting is going to be what is that one thing that trica has that no other system has.
(1:22:00) >> Which tells you you are Shiva you're not finding that Shiva somewhere outside. If there is one philosophy which tells you that either aam brahasmi but aham brahasmi you could say that you don't become a brahma >> aha >> you were to be brahma you could create another universe kashmir shavism gives you a path to become that brahma asmi >> okay >> so you know you are brahma or shiva and it starts with the get-go it starts with the beginning by this shivham >> and if someone wants to learn trick how can they >> there are many scriptures there are many
(1:22:38) books for Kashmir shaism or trka uh tantra I think uh you know people could start with any one of the scriptures or books from either Swami Lakshman because reading Abhinav Gupta is the next stage and you got to have a good hold on the language which is Sanskrit that so Abhinav Gupta in his lifetime writes two books one is tantra alkoka which is in Sanskrit and you got to have a good understanding of the grammar as well as the language and everything But for non-skitrit ones he writes tantras which is the summary of tantra
(1:23:08) aloga. So for um so you could start with Swami Lakman Jew, Swami Ramju, William D uh not Darian U Mark Dosski, Betatina Bomber there are some contemporary scholars of Trika Shavism as well. >> Okay. Um so we could read their books because they are the wonder they're good translations of the works of Abhinagupta and then if you find yourself ascending to that stage you know maybe why don't you you know people should connect with the primary source and there are many many one book that I think I should be able to recommend for all the beginners
(1:23:40) at least uh would be a book by Swami Lakmanju um and the name is Kashmir Shravism the ultimate uh divine >> okay and what if I want to learn the the tools the the technology that can give me that experiential reality and move me towards that. >> I would um say probably through scriptures you're going to get to a guru.
(1:23:59) >> Okay. >> Or through the guru you're going to get to the scripture. >> Aa >> but for you know just gathering the information not the gan you gathering the information. I think this this is a great book to begin with. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Yra thank you so so much for the podcast. >> Thank you. Thank you for calling.
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