Infidelity: How Betrayal Changes You | Sahara Rose

Infidelity: How Betrayal Changes You | Sahara Rose

Author Name:Shivani Pau

Youtube Channel Url:https://www.youtube.com/@ShivaniPauPodcast

Youtube Video URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVbQQ_nqjU8



Transcript:
(00:00) How does somebody embrace the dark night of the soul? >> On December 4th of 2022, my then-husband confessed to me that he had been cheating on [music] me. That sent me into my dark night of the soul. >> What does that actually mean? >> An on-your-knees moment when you're in your own living nightmare.
(00:17) It's your initiation into becoming [music] your shiniest, brightest version yet. I would go through that heartbreak a thousand more times over if I knew it would make me become this version of me today. >> Truth and love are very different things. So, [music] when something like heartbreak happens, we start to question our entire relationship.
(00:33) There's something wrong with us. Our whole relationship was fake. >> first 6 months after his confession, I was like a walking zombie. I created this thing that I now call the triple-E method: emote, embody, and express. And this is the natural Shiva Shakti polarity that I feel so many [music] of us are craving.
(00:50) Embody that part of Athena. Embody that Shakti. That's true feminine energy. >> The funeral of your former self. [music] And there's three steps. We can't have the rebirth without the death. The ritual I have is >> [music] >> powerful turning points for purpose and
(01:57) for transformation in your life. This is such a powerful conversation. So, if you're interested in more conversations like this that go beyond the surface and into purpose, healing, and transformation, make sure that you're subscribed, you have your bell notifications on because there's a lot more of this to come.
(02:18) I am truly excited for you to listen to this episode because I learned so much from it. Let's get into it. Sahara, hello. >> Hi, thank you so much for having me, Shivani. I'm excited to be here. >> This is such a long time coming. Yes. I have followed your work and I remember listening to your podcast one day and thinking, "Oh my god, I need to meet this woman.
(02:36) " Then we met at a wedding, which was so random. And then we were trying to find a day and then we were trying >> to find a day and then the stars have just aligned while we're here in LA. So, thank you so much for being here. >> I'm grateful. >> I want to talk to you today about a big life change that happened to you and I think the reason why this is so important right now is I'm actually having a lot of friends going through something very similar, you know? They have been betrayed by their partner or they've broken up with their partner and
(03:01) they feel lost, they feel broken, and they feel as if they are never going to recover and they're never going to find happiness again. They don't know what their strengths are anymore. You know, they've lost all of that self-confidence and you know, this doesn't just apply to anyone at home who's with us right now who's going through betrayal or going through something really difficult.
(03:19) It applies to any woman who feels as if she's in that moment in her life where she doesn't feel like herself. So, I want to kind of start at the beginning of your story. What was your life like before everything started to change? >> So, on December 4th of 2022, I went to sleep as a happily married wife. I was with my then husband for almost 8 years.
(03:43) And we lived together in Miami. You know, we didn't have a toxic relationship. We weren't fighting, we were It was just normal. Life was happening. And he had sat in a plant medicine journey a couple days prior. And he had told me that some things had come up in the ceremony around his healing, etc.
(04:05) And I was like, "Okay, great." But he didn't tell me fully everything that was brought to surface. And he woke me up in my sleep that night and confessed to me that he had been cheating on me throughout the relationship. And this was not something that there were lots of red flags or we were fighting, he wasn't going out. We both worked from home.
(04:27) And it was a huge beyond shock of my lifetime. Right. And that night we just stayed up and honestly I couldn't even find it in me to be angry yet cuz I was just so just shocked. Like, how could this person that I felt I knew more than anyone be holding this thing from me? I was just trying to understand, you know, like, why? Like, what was going through your head? Like, what were you thinking before that? And you know, when people do these acts, I think they disassociate a lot.
(05:00) And it's it's something a a I feel an underlying trauma that gets triggered that causes people to go into these addictive behaviors. And we see that a lot in the world today. And I just knew the next day that there was no going back because it wasn't something that happened years into the relationship, it was something that was going on the whole time.
(05:23) >> Yeah. >> And so there wasn't like a version of him I could be like, "Okay, like that happened and then we grew apart." And it was like, "Oh, I actually never really fully knew you." And that sent me into my dark night of the soul. Dark night of the soul is often an on-your-knees moment when you're in your own living nightmare.
(05:44) >> Wow. >> When you experience the thing that is the last thing you could ever experience and and that's your life. And it's your initiation into becoming truly your shiniest, brightest, sparkliest version yet should you let it be. Cuz if you think about it, the darkness is necessary to see a star, you know, like if we didn't have the dark night, we wouldn't see stars.
(06:10) >> Wow. >> If we didn't have the dark soil, we wouldn't have plants. If we didn't have the womb, we wouldn't have babies. Everything is born in the dark and it needed to get this dark sometimes for how bright it's going to become. Knowing what I know now, 4 years later and for someone who's going through it right now, is sometimes the universe needed to pull the rug from under your feet because there is a life that is waiting for you that is so far beyond any version that you could imagine today.
(06:41) And sometimes you need to let go of the last thing that you thought you needed to. >> Mhm. >> And it's often the thing that you thought you needed to be safe, to have your identity, to feel complete, to realize that you're not that. >> Mhm. >> I didn't realize how much of my identity as a woman was defined by my relationships.
(06:58) >> Talk to me about that. What do you mean? >> As women from the time we are, you know, little girls, "Oh, she's such a good girl. She's helping her mommy out." "Oh, like she's just like her mom. She's cleaning. She's, you know, um I remember like my parents would always want me to like give tea to like the guests.
(07:18) It was always around service, right? And I got Exactly. And I got that love from it or performance, you know? >> 100%. >> "Play the piano for our friends. Do the dance for the, you know, the children talent show thing >> [laughter] >> that they love to do." >> Every family has a children talent show. >> Right. Right. I never thought about that.
(07:34) >> Or even just go around the room and give a hug and kiss to everyone in the room. And you don't want to and you know some people will the parents really kiss your cheek and you don't And it's like you're literally taught like my body has to be like given. Right? And so from a young time you're a young girl especially you are conditioned to people please, to get validation by being a good girl.
(07:53) Especially in like brown immigrant families. And this good girl conditioning was really deep in me without noticing. And you know, when I was 24 years old and I met him in a lot of ways I felt like I'm ahead, you know, like I met my husband and now I'm an adult, right? And I'm going to focus on my work and focus on these things.
(08:17) And I didn't And of course I still had my own life. I had my career, but I didn't realize like I couldn't even fathom a life without him. >> Wow. >> But when I tuned into what I really wanted for my own life, it was to travel more, >> Mhm. >> to live in places where it's just more like community oriented and jungle. We didn't have the same vision for our lives, but I loved him so much that I was kind of just waiting for him to change his mind.
(08:45) Maybe eventually we'll both have the same vision for our life. And so many people are in relationships where they come in because of the chemistry, the connection, they fall in love, but they don't actually really want to go to the same place. And I do believe that God was like, "There is so much more waiting for you that you can't yet realize, but it needed to get this dark.
(09:05) " And wow. It took me into definitely the darkest spiral of my life. Like I remember listening to the Amy Winehouse Back to Black song. >> So good. >> And I was like, "Oh, I actually get it." >> Yeah. >> Like I actually get what it's like to see black because while mentally in my head I was like, "Okay, I know that the best is yet to come.
(09:25) " And I'm telling myself this thing. I had to feel all of the feelings I never felt my entire life. And often that's what a dark night of the soul invites us to is all of the suppressed emotion, all of the tears you couldn't cry as a kid. It wasn't safe to cry as a kid. >> Wow. >> And so it all comes to surface. >> Gosh, I I feel emotional as I was telling me.
(09:47) I feel like I was that I wasn't that with you, but it feels you've described it in such a way that I can imagine myself being in that position and it's almost fair. I mean, there's so much I want to unpack. The first thing I really want to say that you talked about is how you felt that you relied on a relationship so much and they defined you.
(10:03) You know, as you were speaking, I was just thinking that I think the reason why so many women struggle with heartbreak and it feels as if their whole identity has changed, it's because their whole life they were validated if they were in a relationship. If you had a boyfriend in school, you were cool. They break up with you, you're single, your whole world it falls apart.
(10:22) Then you probably date another person, right? They break up with you in your 20s and you're thinking, "When on earth am I going to get married?" And everyone's telling you, "When you're going to get married? When you're going to have children? How are you going to do it all?" So then you do get married and then this person betrays you or they hurt you or they're no longer aligned with you.
(10:41) And the reason why I think so many women do not break up with that person is because they're too afraid of being single and also because there's so much ego attached. Right? There is an ego attached, I guess, for women of finding someone. It's like, "I'm now worthy. I'm now I'm now respected. Now I can do all the other things that I wanted to do in my life without you guys judging me.
(11:03) " You know, so many of my friends who are Indian, they were constantly told, "You can travel when you get married. You can do what you want when you get married." And my parents 100% tried to force that on me, right? They were like, "You can go traveling alone when you get married." And I was like, "I'm going to go now before I'm getting married.
(11:18) " I went traveling by myself. And then when I wanted to move out and live out on my self, which is something that no woman in my family had ever done before, they were like, "You can move out when you get married." And I was like, "But I don't want to move out to I don't want to get married to move out. I want to move out because I want to spend time by myself.
(11:35) I want to know who I am. Right? And whilst they understood that and I had the ability to kind of fight back and be sassy and tell them what I wanted, I think there are so many women who aren't able to do that because they haven't ever been shown a path. Right? I could count on my fingers how many friends of mine moved out by themselves.
(11:53) Right? It just wasn't a culture in the UK and I think this is why it's so hard for women to leave relationships even when they've been betrayed, even if they're heartbroken, even if they're unhappy in relationships, it's because there is so much to lose from their identity, who they are, how they're perceived from other people. >> Absolutely, there's that and there's also a literal biological attachment.
(12:14) Like when you are with someone for a period of time, your body starts to see them as almost like a parental figure, right? And so >> Really? >> that's why we recreate our childhood parent dynamics with our romantic partner. >> No, no, no, no, no. >> Yes. >> Mine's the opposite though. >> Well, sometimes you mentally choose someone who's the opposite because you're like, I never want to be with someone like my dad or whatever, but a lot of times it will you will still find the same dynamics that are unhealed, whether it
(12:42) is, you know, for example, in my relationship, he was always working, but I thought, oh, it's good for a guy to always be working. That means he's busy, that means he's up to something, it's totally fine. And so when he had time for me, I that was good enough for me because I was used to seeing my dad like that.
(12:58) >> Oh. >> I had nor- I had normalized that. And so maybe someone else who grew up with a more involved father in their life would have been like, no, this isn't enough time. These are like emotional breadcrumbs. I'm out. Whereas for me, I had normalized that. Though on paper he was very different from my dad, I had normalized this dynamic of a lot of separation in the relationship, which a lot of us have seen in our parents over time.
(13:21) >> That is 100% true, actually. Exactly. That is very, very, very true. >> Yes, and then when you have a heartbreak, it's like a drug addiction. It's coming off of drugs because biologically you have attached to this person. They are seen as >> [snorts] >> it's like leaving your your home. >> Right. >> And as much as you might mentally be angry at them and know the relationship's not right for you, I don't think love ever dies.
(13:47) I do believe if you've ever loved someone, you will always love them. That thread dissipates over time. It stops becoming something you're always thinking about, but it took me a lot longer than I thought. You know, I remember and I don't believe there's a rule around like it's going to take half as long as you were together. I don't believe in that.
(14:06) But I do feel we try to like rush ourselves out of it. And instead, I just intuitively knew cuz I love to be joyful. I love to be fun. I make music, like all these things, but I knew that if I really take this opportunity to go to the bottom of the barrel of this pain, because the pain it comes in these waves, you know, and these waves just overcome you and it's it's grief, you know, it's there's there's layers to it.
(14:30) So often the first thing is shock, like just complete disbelief. And in that period of shock, you might not be able to eat. You may have kind of this trauma brain where the world is happening, but you're not really paying attention. Like you're having a conversation with someone, but all you're thinking about in your mind is what happened.
(14:47) >> Mhm. >> And so, that can take weeks or months to get through. Um from there, the dark feminine rises. And so, the dark feminine is when you start to make beauty from this pain. Instead of resisting that pain, you're like, you know what? Like for example, when you're cheated on, often you start to feel like, well, then sex with me was not enough.
(15:09) >> Right. [snorts] >> And it's this really, you know, sad story you take on. And so, I really wanted to reclaim like sexuality and my own expression for me. So, I started taking pole dancing classes. And so, through the pole dance, you know, pole dancing it hurts your hands and you get bruises and all these things, but I realized through this pain I created something so beautiful and I was so proud of myself and it would make myself fall in love with me of like, "Look at me, I'm a goddess.
(15:33) " And you know, and then sometimes I would like cry after the class, but every single I would become stronger, I would become more empowered and the dark feminine kind of takes away our maiden, you know, the maiden in us is the girl consciousness who she's waiting for the fairy tale and the perfect person the happily ever after and you know, maybe he wasn't Mr.
(15:53) Right, but I'll find him and he's still waiting for that person to save her from herself. >> Right. >> her from the unknown. >> Mhm. >> Because that's what this world is, you know, we have no idea. But like let that become your kink, you know, it's like, I have no idea what's going to happen and so like who knows? Like I like just flash forward, I went to Brazil for the Carnival and I was like, "It's such a vibe in this country.
(16:19) " I stayed for 3 months. Like literally going to the beach, samba dancing, like, you know, having cute romances. >> [laughter] >> I could not have had that in my married life. And I wish and if you're in it, it's like I wish you could see how great it could become. >> Right. >> But you need to go into the darkness first. So we have our dark feminine.
(16:38) Then comes our wild woman. >> Mhm. >> So our wild woman is who am I outside of the domestication? You know, the domestication is that good girl consciousness of you need to be like this. No one's going to take you seriously if you wear that. Oh, well, if you share that, you know, all these things we're told we need to do to be loved.
(16:57) >> Right. >> And often for a woman it's this journey of I have to sacrifice my truth for love. If I put myself in a little bit of a cage, maybe I'll find someone who'll choose me. >> Mhm. >> And you see that so often with women it's like they're free, they're expressed, they get into a relationship, they're gone.
(17:12) >> 100%. >> Or they're trying to get into a relationship and they put on this mask and this facade that's not who they are. >> Yeah. >> Then let's say they get into a relationship, right? They got, you know, they got the ring, they're engaged. Now they're going through a spiritual journey.
(17:26) Now they want to talk about, "Oh, I actually love full moon rituals and I want to do breathwork with you and you know, I would love to go to Bali." And this person's like, "What? Who are you? I met you at London. I thought that's what you like to do on the >> [laughter] >> weekends, you know? This isn't what I signed up for. I don't want to do this.
(17:43) " And then that person feels unloved. So, in that quest for love, you actually create a dynamic where you are not known and you cannot be loved. Instead of just letting your freak flag fly, you know, being like, "Yeah, I'm spiritual. I'm this. I'm that." Yes, there may be less suitors, right? Like you and I were such a specific niche.
(18:03) We're not for everyone. >> Right. >> But I would rather be in my aloneness and wait until I can naturally connect with someone who can meet me. And that's the big thing that most of us women are deeply afraid of, being alone. >> I I I want to kind of go back to the to the beginning because I know that there's so many women right now who are with us and are kind of going through this similar thing, right? Where they feel completely lost.
(18:25) They can feel completely stuck. They're heartbroken. Right? And something that you said from the kind words that you sent me was truth and love are very different things. So, I want you to talk about that a little bit because I know that when something like betrayal happens, when something like heartbreak happens, we start to question our entire relationship and we start to think that the person that we were with never loved us.
(18:49) They never The reason why they're not with us is because there's something wrong with us. And actually our whole relationship was fake because if they cheated, it must mean that they never loved us and they do not love us. But you said in your book, truth and love are different things. Talk to me about that. What does that mean? >> That was a thought I had and I see so many of my friends and clients have.
(19:08) So, was the whole relationship a lie? You must have never loved me. And I will say from the bottom of my heart, I know that person loved you. And what you shared was real. And just because someone is incapable of sitting with their shadows and traumas, someone is struggling with integrity in their own life, which will seep into all areas of their life, it doesn't mean that the love that you shared was not real.
(19:34) It was just taken to the furthest point that it could. >> Mhm. >> I don't believe love is enough to make a relationship work. >> Really? >> No. >> What is enough then? >> Two people truly choosing it. And often times when there is infidelity, it will bring up one person is not fully choosing it. And I will say that men and women tend to cheat for different reasons.
(20:02) Often, and not always, but you'll often see characteristically men will cheat for dopamine, impulse, this conquest, just an experience. >> Right. >> Sometimes they'll cheat because the relationship is over, but often it is truly meaningless for them. And it's hard for us women to understand cuz we're like, what? Like to have sex with someone is so intimate.
(20:30) Like, are you in love with her? And genuinely men can have sex with someone and and disassociate from it after it. And it's crazy because we, especially if you're heart-centered woman, you just can't fathom it. Women tend to cheat when the relationship is kind of over. >> Yes. >> And they're looking for a way out. >> Yeah, and they're looking for someone to care for them.
(20:48) >> We're looking for someone to care, exactly. And so, often times when the woman cheats, it really is the end of the relationship. Also, men have a harder time forgiving. Um I have seen relationships where and it can happen either ways, but I have definitely seen when the man cheats, and sometimes it brings up all the stuff and they work through it and they come out stronger.
(21:09) So, I'm not saying necessarily for every person you need to divorce the way I did. What it brought out for me was wait, I wouldn't even choose this relationship today. We don't even have the same goals and vision for life. Like we actually have grown apart. Like I actually don't feel super attracted to you.
(21:26) Like all of these things that I wouldn't have even let myself think about because of the good girl conditioning of you're my husband till death do us part, don't even think about it. That for me I needed the manifestation of something this big and this drastic for me to walk away. >> Oh. >> And that's what the dark night of the soul does.
(21:45) It creates exactly what you need to see the shadow that you wouldn't have looked at. >> Wow. And does this only happen for women? Does the dark night of the soul only happen for women? >> Oh, no. It happens with everyone and probably a couple dark nights of your soul in your life. So, other dark nights of the soul are going through health challenges, um maybe losing a job, losing a a parent or family member.
(22:07) >> Okay. >> Anything that really rocks your world and shifts your identity and causes you to question who you are. And so, sometimes it's a moment like getting a big piece of news, but sometimes it's kind of like losing yourself in the process of things and realizing I don't even know where I am and where I'm going in my life.
(22:28) And so, dark nights of the soul really are this spiritual initiation. They've existed in every single spiritual lineage. In fact, people have chosen to walk through dark nights of the soul. Whether it's through vision quests, plant medicine, silent retreats, these are actually darkness retreats, these are actually creating dark night of the soul moments for us so we can do that deep contemplative work without the universe needing to create it for us.
(22:49) But if we're not doing it, the universe is like, "Okay, you're not listening. I'm going to have to get involved." >> Is this similar to a Saturn return? >> So, a Saturn return definitely can be a dark night of the soul moment, but it's not necessarily. Also, your Sade Sati in Vedic astrology, um which is the return of your moon sign, can be this big identity shift.
(23:11) It's a sev- Do you know want to hear something crazy, Shivani? My Sade Sati, so my um moon is in Sagittarius in Vedic astrology. It was literally to the month and date of when I met him, and the month of date to when we divorced. And do you want to hear something crazier? He has the same moon sign as me, and that was his Sade Sati, too.
(23:30) >> What does that mean? >> So, we literally met at this time of like the biggest change in your life that happens two times in your life. And we met on the month and finished on the month 7 and 1/2 years later. You can't make this up. >> Flipping hell, how do I find out what my Sade Sati is? >> You can just look it up online on like Vedic astrology things, but it's basically the return of your moon sign.
(23:53) >> So, it's similar to a Saturn return? >> Similar to a Saturn return, but it's a 7 and 1/2 year cycle. And it's not necessarily when you're 28, it could be at any age. >> Okay, yeah. I was going to say cuz that one's when you're like 28 or 18 or something, isn't it? I can't remember. >> Saturn return tends to be around then, yes, in Western astrology.
(24:07) So, it's like you can't It's like there are bigger forces at play, and what I see that really humbles me is that most of us go through really similar journeys with these dark nights of the soul. >> Yes. >> And so, you know, the dark feminine it eradicates everything, and and even for men, you know, your dark masculine can come up.
(24:24) A lot of men were conditioned to be nice boys, people pleasers, and things like that. >> And a lot of men get hurt, you know, maybe it's it's from a relationship, maybe it's from business or losing a company or something, and they need to go on a journey of integrating your darkness. I have found that you will often date the darkness that you have not integrated.
(24:43) Because deep down inside, you want to touch upon these parts of yourself. >> Give me an example. >> For example, when I met him, I was yoga, vegan, loving light, and he was this dark scorpionic music producer, and I was like, "Wow, he's so deep." I love how deeply he feels. Like I love and I was like intrigued by it cuz I was so like light and fun and bubbly.
(25:09) And so there was like an attraction to it. The darkness loves the light and the light loves the darkness. You we need each other, right? And so he came up in the light and he taught me about the dark. And both of us made each other more whole. >> Wow. I mean, I think the journey is something that's what people struggle with, right? They're in this position right now and then they think, "How the hell am I going to get to where you are?" Right? And there's something that you said, you know, that I thought was really powerful
(25:35) is that, you know, in order to feel great in your body you started pole dancing. Right? And I think, you know, questioning how you look, how you feel within your body, um you know, when you go through a heartbreak, some people can't even get out of bed. >> Oh, yeah. >> they don't even want to put on a nice outfit.
(25:53) All they want to do is just sit in sweats and sit on the bed and eat ice cream and watch Bridget Jones. Well, that's what I like to do when I'm in heartbreak. But, you know, we don't feel confident within ourselves. How What were the steps that you took? So, how does somebody embrace the dark night of the soul? >> So, for the first 6 months after his confession, I woke up every morning and would just hysterically cry in bed.
(26:14) I >> Oh my god. >> had no energy or mental pro- I was like a walking zombie. And I realized I can't just keep living like this. But the emotion was there. There was so It was so many layers for me to cry about because there was just so so many things I didn't know about. >> [snorts] >> And so I created this thing that I now call the triple E method and it stands for emote, embody, and express.
(26:41) >> Okay. >> So, first emote, feel what you naturally feel. Whether it is crying, whether it is being livid and punching a pillow, whether it is feeling like the deepest loneliness in your heart, whether it is feeling so much disgust for the masculine, whether it is feeling just disappointment that you've been let down again.
(27:02) Like whatever that feeling is, feel it to the bottom of the barrel. Like let it take over your body. And I know it's the opposite of what we're told. Don't feel it. Keep going. That's not real. Manifest. It's just going to keep you at the surface and that emotion wants the microphone. That emotion wants to be felt because it has been there existing in your life that likely has not fully been felt.
(27:23) So it's been waiting for an opportunity like this to complete itself. >> [snorts] >> And so even scientifically they found you can only fully feel an emotion for 90 seconds at a time. And so if you just give yourself 90 seconds to like feel that deep heartbreak, feel that deep sadness, feel that deep anger, whatever it is, then the second E, embody.
(27:43) Where do you feel it in your body? Become aware. Do I feel it in my heart? Is it like a black tar covering my heart? Is it like this ache in my shoulders? Is it this pit in my stomach? Start to feel it and start to move it. Does it have a color? Does it have a texture? Start to just get curious about it.
(28:02) And then embody what you want to feel. So I love to play songs of like what it is that I, you know, sometimes first I'll play the song that's honest with how I feel, whether it's Un-Break My Heart or whatever else. Then I'll play the song of how I want to feel. So maybe it's I'm a survivor. Like whatever [laughter] that is. And I'll start moving my body now in this opposite emotion.
(28:23) So maybe it was Un-Break My Heart, like so just lonely, I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life, to survivor, strong, powerful, fierce. And I would tell myself like, you know, at the beginning I could barely even get up. I'm like, okay, even if it's just me dancing while sitting in my bed, of just rocking side and side to side.
(28:40) And then from there I would like, you know, get up and just I would just tell myself, all you need is one song. That's all you need to do. Just dance a little bit with my coffee mug and just you know >> [laughter] >> just do the two-step and then it would start to grow and start to grow and then I would express from that energy which was always transformed.
(28:58) I would either record a voice memo of myself just talking out what I was feeling just you know I think as women were super verbal processors and often times when we end a relationship we're like I have no one to talk to. >> Right. >> And so it's like just having a place where you can just say all of the things and talking to friends too but sometimes with your voice memo you could just go on rants like I would record myself for 40 minutes just talking talking talking talking talking.
(29:22) And then from there over time it was all of this dense emotion would purify from my system and then I would record voice memos but I would start to like beatbox or I would make melodies or I would say affirmations to myself like I am this or you know eventually there was an affirmation I would say trust flow surrender let go.
(29:45) Trust flow surrender let go. Trust flow surrender let go. I'm the one I've been waiting for. >> Wow. >> Then in this process after six months after six months of complete darkness I finally asked myself okay this happened. This is my life. You know there going to be a lot of this shame around now I have this heavy story.
(30:10) Like he gave me this heavy trauma story and now I have to carry it around and it was just like okay and this is my life. This is what happened. Now what do I want to create from it and I started to just dream like what would my inner dream girl be like? Like if I could be anyone like who are the people like you are kind of like envious of on social media or like you see and you're like I would love and for me when I would see girls in like like island vibes like seashells and like you know braids in their hair they're like these tropical mommy's I was like I want to be like
(30:39) that I want to be a mermaid you know and I just decided I was like, wait, why do I even live here in LA? There's no reason for me to live here. I work online. And I decided, I'm going to just going to move to Portugal. And so I packed up the stuff that I had, and I moved to Portugal. And while I was in Portugal, I started going to all these Afrobeat festivals cuz I just loved Afrobeat music.
(31:01) Like just the tone of their voice, it's very earthy, the drums, and it was healing me. Cuz I could not, Shivani, like if someone's listening to a podcast and they're in it, like I I couldn't have it in me. I didn't I couldn't do thoughts, I couldn't do words. All I could do was listen to music.
(31:15) So I went to this Afrobeat festival in Portugal, and I'm just by myself dancing, having a good time, and I met this other dancer, and we're just dancing, we became friends. And I started to tell him, you know, I've always had this dream of making Afrobeat music, but it's got like Persian and Indian undertones, and you know, just this cultural world vibe.
(31:32) He says, I'm a I'm a producer. Let's start to make music. And so then I went and visited him in Amsterdam, which I would have never done before. Someone I just met at a music festival. I went and visited him. We started to make music. And then I was like, okay, we need to find an Afrobeat artist to sing on it.
(31:49) And I'm DMing all these artists, and no one's getting back to me. He's like, why don't you sing on it? I'm like, I can't sing. Like that's the If you told me like, what's the worst thing that you do, it's like singing for sure. He's like, just try it. I was like, well, what do I say? It's like an Afrobeat song.
(32:04) He was like, I don't know, just say whatever you want. I'm going through my notes app. What could I say on a song? Huh. Trust. Flow, surrender, let go. Trust, flow, surrender, let go. I'm the one I've been waiting for. And so we recorded that song, and then I was like, well, now you need to sing on the song. He's like, I don't sing Afrobeat, he's Brazilian.
(32:22) I was like, just try. And I wrote for him, give me ginger, give me sugar, give me water, you give me fire. And he did that. And then I was like, we have a song. I'm like, well, we need a music video. And I met up with this random lady from a WhatsApp group that I found and I just did my own hair in braids and I shot a music video.
(32:42) And then I'm like, "Okay, now how do I put out a song?" And I just kept following the flow. That song, Shivani, has over 4 million plays, has been played in radio stations in Africa, and I created an album, became an artist. My My music project is even bigger than my podcast now. And it was all just from following the flow.
(33:02) And I do believe that lover girls need to make art. Because it is the creativity that heals us. Cuz when you were out of a relationship, you have all this energy, all this love, all of this emotion with no place to go. And then you try to just find another relationship. You're swiping on the dating apps and you it's just like, "Oh my god, making me feel worse when I see what's out there.
(33:22) " But when you pour it into your art, >> Yeah. >> and you see a music video of yourself or a painting that you made or a crochet or what a dinner party, whatever your art is, you're like, "I made that." And that wouldn't have been possible without the heartbreak. >> Yes. >> And I would say Shivani today, I would go through that heartbreak a thousand more times over if I knew it would make me become this version of me today.
(33:44) And so if someone is in a heartbreak right now, I want to just say congratulations because the best is yet to come. >> This is crazy. I mean, I felt so emotional in that because I can just see from your energy and and I can just like I said, I feel like when you're speaking, I feel your journey, you know, and it's just amazing.
(34:02) And I think what you said is when women lean into their art. I actually I actually agree, but I also would like to add I think it's women lean into their self. >> Yeah. >> You know, I I shared this in my podcast with Gabby as well is that I met my husband through my podcast. The one thing that everybody told me to never be >> your art.
(34:18) >> Right. And everyone told me not to be cute. That's what I'm saying. It's like self and your art and how you express yourself. It's when you channel into who you are. So for me it was my podcast, but my whole life everyone said to me, "Don't be so inquisitive. Don't ask too many questions. Don't be so direct.
(34:31) Don't challenge Shivani. Stop Stop asking so many questions. And then that very thing led me to finding my husband. Right? When people say, you know, "How do I find someone?" And I'm like, "Have you found yourself? Have you found what you love? Have you found something that you enjoy?" And it sounds so wishy-washy, but I truly believe we attract things when we are at our highest self. And that can be whatever.
(34:56) For me, it was the podcast. For you, it could be painting. For you, it could be walking. For you, it could be doing a high ropes. It could be, you know, going to a Barre class every Saturday because it's what you really love. Right? And I think that's what is so beautiful about this journey.
(35:10) And, you know, my the quote that you've written in your book, can I read it? >> Mhm. >> This is the dark night of the soul. It's an initiation that every woman must walk through, and most women just survive it. They white-knuckle their way through, patch themselves back together, bury their trauma deep inside, and go back to their lives a little bit more closed off, a little more guarded, a little more I'm fine than before. What a waste.
(35:38) When I read that >> What a waste. >> [laughter] >> I just And this is why I think I was getting teary when you explained it to me because I think, "What a flipping waste." What a waste that we don't allow ourselves, you know, and you and you said at the start, "I for 6 months woke up every day and I cried." >> Mhm.
(35:53) >> You know, you don't rush to just do something. You don't rush to find somebody else. I think [snorts] you took your time, and that's why you found who you really were. You know, so how do women, I think are hopefully by hearing your story, hopefully by this point in the conversation, they think, "You know what? I'm never going to let someone do that to me.
(36:10) I'm not going to let it go to waste." But what are the practical things that people can do to not waste this really incredible time in their life like you said is going to transform them? >> So, the first thing that I would do is really ask yourself, "Who do I want to become?" Not despite of this, but because of this. What are the things that are now possible that weren't possible for me before? >> Okay, let's pause on that.
(36:36) What do you mean in not because of this, not in spite of this, but because of this? What's the difference? >> So, for example, my less helpful thought was I got cheated on and now I'm never going to be able to find love, and it's going to be hard for me cuz I'm going to have trust issues, and my story's too heavy, and he's now kept me back from the thing that I wanted most.
(36:59) So, the despite is this is an obstacle in my life now. This and and that's a lot of how the trauma healing space sees it. >> Got it. >> You had this trauma, so yeah, it's going to be harder for you to connect. Yeah, this is going to be now your trauma that you have to carry, and it becomes this heavy thing, this baggage thing.
(37:16) Instead, I flipped it. I'm going to have the greatest love of my life because this happened, not despite this happened, because this happened. I'm going to truly open my heart. Not coming from a relationship from a place of role-playing. Oh, I want a boyfriend, you'll be my boyfriend.
(37:35) I want a fiance, so now you're my fiance, which is 99% of relationships out there. But because I genuinely now have seen the life cycle of a relationship, that now I know the thing that ends the relationship, if you can just say that thing from the beginning, that's how you're going to have true love. >> Right. >> Most of us are trying to hide that thing, hide the thing that we think is going to be too much, right? And that's why I literally wrote a book of the thing that I was like, I hope no one knows this about me, is like, let me
(38:02) lead with that. Because someone that's like I and and I had the similar thing of like and my mom would tell me, you share too much about yourself online. You're you're too out there. You need to be more private. People don't like someone like that. And it's like, who's people? It's not going to be the person for me.
(38:21) >> Wow. >> Because ultimately, a relationship is a portal. Each person is a portal and it's who you become. And even zooming out of that, the relationship is often just the dangling carrot. But it's the journey of your becoming. You know, someone might say, "Oh, Shivani met her guy through starting a podcast, so maybe I should start a podcast and then this.
(38:43) " Okay, Sahara's, you know, became I didn't meet someone through becoming an artist, but I met myself. >> Right. >> it for me. >> Yes. >> And I feel a lot of us women in the back of our minds will do this thing, "Okay, apparently guys go to salsa class, so I'll go to salsa class, you know?" And it's like, do you like And let's say you never meet anyone from it.
(39:02) Will you choose it? And I feel >> Wow. >> it is important for a while to decenter romantic relationships because we have been so focused on it as like, if you're not actively dating, if you're, you know, kind of what you've talked about of like this societal belief of if you're single, something's wrong with you. >> 100%.
(39:21) >> you're in a relationship, then you must be healed enough to be in a relationship. >> You're a good person. >> You're a good person. Someone else is validating you. >> Yes. >> What if you just chose for a period of time to not have this constant question of love and lust? So for me, I actually chose to be celibate for 2 and 1/2 years after my divorce.
(39:40) So I did not engage with anyone like romantically, sexually, and I knew because I had been >> Even a conversation? >> Conversation, yes. >> Friendly? >> Yes, a little a little some flirt, but they were more my friend, I would say. But yes, but no no sexual engagement. >> did you choose to be celibate? >> Because I knew that in this period of time, if I get involved with someone, I would put all my energy on them.
(40:09) You know, as women, we so do this. It's like And I would for sure have like crushes, but in a way like sometimes all you can handle is a crush because a relationship, it's going to take you into more. And often women after heartbreaks experience what's called limerence. So, limerence is a trauma response, actually.
(40:27) It's like when you have all of this like love that you have nowhere to direct it to. And so, you direct it towards an unavailable person. Because then it allows you to have this felt experience of love without the responsibility and commitment of what happens next. So, it might be towards some guy on Instagram or some guy you met one time who's ghosting you or celebrity or something like that.
(40:48) And so, a lot of women will have this limerence and it's so In a way, it's a protective mechanism of like, I want to experience love, but I'm not capable of And so, but you don't realize you're in limerence. You think, I'm genuinely in love with this person, but they're unavailable. >> Oh. >> So, I had limerence over this like Afrobeats artist that I never met.
(41:06) But >> [laughter] >> But in a way, that was before I was making the music. Why did I have such a huge crush on this person? Because they were embodying qualities that I had yet to embody. >> Wow. >> And so, if you are having the limerence, if you're having a crush on someone and they're unavailable and it could all be so great if they just chose me.
(41:24) What is it about this person that you were so obsessed with? Because that is you that you're waiting to be obsessed with. Like when I thought of this Afrobeats artist, I was like, "Oh my god, I just love his style. He puts seashells in his hair. Oh my god, I love how he produces his music and the ad-libs and the layers he does.
(41:41) " It's like, "Hello, Earth to Sarah. Like clearly it's what you want to do." But as women, we think men are a ticket to the life that I want. And so, if you fantasize around rich men to take you flying around the world, girl, make Go learn about the stock market. Make some money. You clearly want that lifestyle. And let me tell you, trying to get a man to secure anything is the least secure decision you will ever make.
(42:06) >> 1,000% [laughter] more secure than >> Like your stock portfolio is going to be a lot more stable than you know and so many women are like I just want my bills paid so like sprinkle sprinkle you know there's this woman she teaches you this. A man can just decide tomorrow I don't want to be with you anymore.
(42:23) >> Correct. They can just stop. >> there there goes all of that work you spent on trying to get him to like you and how to show up and where to go and then hang out at the hotel lounge do do do do do do. If you just put that energy towards you becoming that you becoming the rich woman you becoming the person in power you becoming the artist you becoming the whatever it is.
(42:42) Then you don't need a ticket cuz you're already there. >> Wow. Wow. Oh my god. Flipping heck. [laughter] I feel like I want to stand up and clap for you right now because there is just so much that you said there that I really really resonate with. First I want to just say what you said about do the thing for you, you know.
(42:59) You are so right. People ask me all the time how did you meet your husband and then I say through my podcast and they're like oh maybe I should start a podcast and I'm like >> [laughter] >> Wait what? All that >> So I can meet a husband. Their husbands are listening to podcasts. >> Or they'll say like how did you grow your account and I'm like well I started as a podcast first and they're like oh so should I start a podcast and I'm like No.
(43:18) Do what Like I had a friend who was like you know what I think I'm going to start a podcast and I was like why? >> Husband and >> And she was like you know I want to I just want to tell people about my stuff, right? And I was like Cool. Why are you doing a podcast though? And she's like because I just you know want to have conversations.
(43:33) I'm like so why not YouTube? She's like I didn't think of that. I'm like exactly cuz you're not actually thinking about what it is you want to do. You're just saying this person did this and then they grew and then I want to copy it. >> This person seems happy. >> But the point is is that so often we think there's like one blueprint to life.
(43:48) What you just said which is so so so powerful is like you have to do something for yourself in order for it to be fruitful. In whatever capacity that fruit may come. Does that make sense? So for example I did not start a podcast because I thought that my husband my future husband is going to message me. Of course I didn't. I started a podcast [snorts] because I wanted to do that.
(44:06) >> Guys I've been podcasting no husbands have messaged me. >> It's so >> [laughter] >> It's so It's so crazy, but you know, it's so interesting that we believe that something worked for someone else and therefore it must work for us. You know, and that's what society has created now. We have created these channels and these marketing schemes and comment this for this cuz I'll send you my exact guide.
(44:30) It's ridiculous. We are all copying a single blueprint rather than figuring out what it is that we truly want. And I think what you said is so so so powerful around that. And that's why I just really wanted to emphasize that is do the thing that you love and don't do it with the idea of finding a man. >> Exactly.
(44:44) >> Don't do it with the idea of being in the cool club with your friends. Don't Don't make it transactional cuz that's not where it's flowing. That's not where it's going to come to you. You know, when you are doing something for a specific outcome, right? And you're saying, "Oh, if I go to the salsa class, then I'm definitely going to attract a really hot guy in my life.
(45:02) " Go to the salsa class because you enjoy going to salsa. You know, someone came to my workshop and they said, "How do I meet this guy?" And I said, "Guys, you know what for me was a really great way to meet people This is going to sound really rogue before I met my husband was in the gym." But you know why? Because I love going to the gym.
(45:19) If you don't love going to the gym, don't go to the gym where you're going to meet a guy who's into the gym and both of you are going to be disconnected because you want to be going out to a club on a Friday night and he wants to be going to an Equinox. It's just not going to work, right? But it's so easy for us to just think that if we go to the gym, we'll find a guy.
(45:37) I think what you've just said is so powerful of do the thing that you love and then those things will come to you. And sometimes a man will never be the result. It will be that you found yourself. And for you, you found this incredible music and you got to go travel and live this amazing life and obviously connect with so many people.
(45:54) But you chose to be celibate for a period of time to focus on yourself. And I think that is something that is so powerful because you knew that you were going to give your energy in a relationship. Some people might not feel that way. Some people might feel they're giving their energy in work, right? So, maybe for them not working for a period of time, if feasible and possible, would be a great thing.
(46:14) However, you distract yourself, right? I think is you need to take a space from it, which I think is so powerful what you've just said. >> Exactly, because at the end of the day, you are the person that you're going to live with. You know, even when you're in a relationship or not, what you realize is like, I'm still the person I go to sleep with every night.
(46:32) I'm still the person I wake up to. I'm still the person whose thoughts I'm living in. And so, really zooming out of like, what kind of life do I want to live? Because I think we spend so much time on like the next goal that we never really ask ourselves, you know, I remember shortly after his confession, I did this meditation and I zoomed out and saw myself as an old woman.
(46:56) And she was 75 years old. She had like short white hair. She was wearing like very colorful outfits, which was like not how I dressed at the time. And she had like a new younger boyfriend. I was like, "What?" >> [laughter] >> She had like grandkids and I didn't want kids and it was just such a different vision, but it was what I was my my consciousness was showing me.
(47:15) And she told me, she said, "Right now, you're still a very concerned with beauty standards and being chosen and things like that, but one day, you'll realize these things don't matter and let me show you what you're going to create." And she showed me a wall and had all these plaques on it of like music and documentaries and and books and all these things she had made.
(47:35) I was nowhere even the thought of making music was not even on my mind yet. And I've actually forgot about that vision. And showed me all of the things that I am capable of and the life that I get to look back on. And I feel we are so as women conditioned to my life starts when I'm in the relationship. All I want and I think a lot of it comes from I don't like my job and so I want a rich man to retire me so I can just like stay at home and like focus on being a mom as if that's an easier job.
(48:05) You know? And again, it's someone to save me. >> Mhm. >> the maiden. >> Wow. >> There's nothing to be saved from. This life gets to be so magical. You get to do things that your ancestors would be like amazed. And I do believe often times we chose to become single on this path to do the things that our ancestors never got to do.
(48:26) To live their unfulfilled dreams. Like which one of our mothers, grandmothers, great-grandmothers had this level of freedom to travel, to start businesses, to get to know people all around the world, to express themselves, to share No one. It's unprecedented. But we still try to put ourselves in this cage of like no, but I need to be chosen.
(48:45) I need to the family. I need this. No. And it's like your grandmother is like run far and wide. Do all the things I never got to do cuz when I was your age, I was on my like third child. >> Right. This is yeah. >> And we don't realize this often until the moment's passed. Just like when we were kids, we just wanted to be adults so badly and we're like I wish I could go back to being a kid and it's like right now being single might feel hard and dating sucks and the dating apps and yes, I agree with you on all these
(49:10) things. I'm in that world, too. And the things that I can look back on that I'm like so proud of myself I did were when I zoomed out of that matrix and just focused on something else that made me fall more in love with me. And that's why I decided to call the book after our conversation. Maybe this love story is really about me.
(49:31) >> Wow. >> And that was another affirmation that was coming to me a lot because I was spending so much time on this like I wonder who my man's going to be, my sacred union partner. Is it this? Is it that? And And finally one day it hit me after like, you know, years of this. It was like maybe this love story is really about you.
(49:49) Maybe it's just about who you become in this. And I wow, because if I were to write a book, what an amazing like protagonist hero's journey that I don't want the book to be, oh, she got divorced and a month later she found herself another relationship and like her life continued because when you get out of a relationship, you actually start to see it's like I say you go up elevators of consciousness.
(50:14) And so the breakup happens on the first floor. As I start to do inner work and heal and do the triple E method and have these different experiences and maybe I do family constellations and EMDR and all these different things, I'm seeing up higher floors, higher floors, higher floors. Now I'm on the 16th floor. Now I can see patterns I wouldn't have seen before.
(50:33) I can see visions for my own life. I have interests. I have things I've embodied within myself. It's going to entirely shift who I'm even attracted to, let alone who's attracted to me and the timeline that we take. And as I continue up this elevator of consciousness, I'm going to reach higher and higher places. Yes, the air is thinner. Yes, there are less people who can meet you when you're very embodied and enacting on your visions as well, but it's the right person.
(51:01) I'm so grateful that that version of me one month after my divorce didn't manifest whoever it was I thought I needed because it so wouldn't have been in alignment with who I became in that process. And beyond that, I get to take home the things that I became. >> This conversation is really, really going to help those women who are struggling right now.
(51:19) I'm kind of I'm kind of like speechless. You know, I don't really have the words to describe how how helpful I think that this is going to be and you know, I actually want to ask you a really interesting question because I think something that I've explored a lot more since being here is the masculine and the feminine energy.
(51:39) I don't know why this is coming up for me right now, but it really is. How does somebody who has been through this heartbreak, right, who is now choosing to focus on herself, who is moving away from the maiden how do they not go into their masculine and hate their feminine? How do they stay within their divine feminine? What does that actually mean? What does divine feminine mean? Let's start with the definitions and then let's talk through that journey of how we don't become in this masculine energy where we hate men, where we're just doers, where
(52:04) no longer feeling, where no longer thinking, where no longer within ourselves. So, I love to use the word sacred feminine over divine feminine. Reason being because when I think of the word divine, it's kind of highlighting this idea we have that spirituality is outside of the body. It is ascended. It is all white light. It's up here.
(52:25) Whereas sacred, it has a richness, a depth in it. It's in the soil, in the womb, in the hips, in the alters, in the temples, in the ancient. And so I even think the words that we use are different energies and textures. And so what is sacred is what is revered, what is known, what is walked through and that is the feminine's energy.
(52:49) In this more pop culture spiritual world, we we simplify feminine and masculine to be feminine is soft, you know, subtle, sweet. Masculine is goal-oriented and you know, driven, etc. And so then a lot of women will shame themselves, I'm too masculine because I have opinions, because I have dreams, I have visions.
(53:15) Durga, you know, she is Shakti and Durga is the goddess, she's the lioness on and she's literally slaying demons. That's mother energy, you know, Kali. She is so full of power and she is the slaying of the ego and illusion. She is Ma, you know, when we refer to Ma, it's really depiction of Kali. And then we have all these aspects of the feminine.
(53:36) We've got Lalita Sundari who is, you know, more of the tantric, sensual. We have a who's abundance. So imagine I said, "Oh, making money is masculine." Lakshmi, you know, we've got Saraswati who is channeling not just creativity but books, knowledge. Imagine I said, I'm too smart, I'm so masculine. Saraswati's too masculine? And these are just the the Hindu pantheon.
(54:01) We have them Sekhmet, Isis in the Egyptian. We have them in Toltec traditions. Every tradition has them. And so, this patriarchal culture tries to separate and bring women down of, "Oh, you want to be in your feminine? You want to be chosen? Be meek. Be submissive to a man. Let him guide you. Have a man lead the way." No one is going to be able to lead your life better than yourself. Not your mom.
(54:26) Not your husband. No one. It's a feminine maiden fantasy that there's going to be someone who can lead my life better than I can myself cuz I don't want to be responsible for my own life. >> Wow. >> So, do you want some random guy you just met to be responsible for [laughter] your own life? I can guarantee you it's not going to take you where you want to go.
(54:43) >> Right. >> And so, I want to start with that of it's not so simple as feminine follows masculine leads, feminine art, masculine direction. I think living your dharma, your soul's purpose, is the most sacred feminine thing you can do. So, connecting to your feminine is connecting to these different archetypes in you.
(55:03) So, your dark goddess will be that part of you that she has the pain, she's been through but she has bulldozed the head like Kali cuts off the head of the illusion. And so, heartbreak is that initiation. Guess what? The dark feminine is so sexy. She's like that Angelina Jolie energy. She's like that baddie on the motorcycle.
(55:25) She doesn't give a She's like, "I love who I am. Take it or leave it." And she's that sassy energy that like when a woman has embodied a dark night of the soul, she is so magnetic because she's no longer little golden retriever trying to be chosen. She is that like panther who's like, "Do I like you?" She's no longer auditioning.
(55:45) You know, so many of us women were like, "Man, who am I going to date? Okay, let me stalk him and see what he likes. Do you think he'll like this outfit?" The dark femme is like, "Are you even worth my time?" Because she has so she has so many amazing friends and things going on and it's like from that place.
(56:01) It's like, think of the energy she's going to attract and she's just one part of it, but she's going to meet someone who actually sees and reveres her. And it's so important that in a relationship, a man sees you as a goddess. Because you are the goddess that he is in worship of. And so if he doesn't worship your goddess, and if he doesn't approach with offerings, trust me, it's not going to be the dynamic that you want.
(56:23) You know, there's something deep in the feminine consciousness that we remember what it's like to be the goddess, to be that dakini, to be that, you know, we see these ancient statues of Aphrodite and Khajuraho in these different places and the men revere to them. They give flowers. They honor. There's something deep in the feminine heart that remembers this way.
(56:44) The men used to wash our feet and give us flowers and care for us and feed us grapes. And the men enjoy that. The men want to be of service to their goddess. It's like because the feminine is the oracle. We can download and be connected to things the masculine cannot. They are the more of the leaders in the 3D. They are naturally better with like, um, you know, taking care of the house and the car and the these kind of things.
(57:06) They're more naturally adapted to that. Feminine more 5D. We're We're connected to the higher consciousness. And so the natural polarity that we're actually looking for is this. But you cannot force your way. So many women have the men as the goddess. You [laughter] know, we're chasing him. We're washing his feet.
(57:24) We're, you know, energetically like and men can feel it when you're energetically chasing them. >> Wow. >> And so it's that reclamation of power which is, you know, in my song I say, "Baby, I'm an altar. The sacred site is me." And when you see yourself as a sacred site, that will only be treated as such, you can only truly come into alignment with someone that sees the same.
(57:47) >> I think I think because some people, especially when women know their worth and we see them saying things like that on social media, you know, it sometimes comes I guess it sometimes does come across as an arrogant way. And some people can see that within us. If we If I said, you know, I know if somebody asked me to come on my podcast and I said, "Well, it's not worth my time to interview this guy.
(58:09) " >> Mhm. >> They would definitely call me arrogant. >> So, I love that you brought that up. The person who thinks it's arrogant was never going to be the person for you. So, if someone says, "I want to come on your podcast," but you never wanted them to come on, then of course you're going to be like, "No.
(58:27) " So, the man that sees that you love yourself because as men and women, the way we feel about ourselves is very different. From the time we're women, we are conditioned to hate ourselves. We are conditioned to look in the mirror and see, "My face is too round and I have sun spots and I have acne and I have this, I have that." We're conditioned to hate our bodies, hate who we are, and see ourselves as not like, you know, and in a lot of cultures, women are not equal to men still today.
(58:54) And so, the way like men look in the mirror is very different than the way that women do. And so, we need to cultivate a lot more self-love to even come to a near equal playing field. We need to go on these journeys of realizing I am sacred. I am worthy of respect. I am worthy of being honored. And the man who's for you will want you to feel that.
(59:18) He wouldn't want you Your husband, Shivani, I guarantee if you said, you know, before I used to When I would date, I would ask myself, I don't know, is this guy worth my time? He'd be like, "As you should." >> 100%. like, of course. I'm grateful you did that because it led me to you. >> It's not just in in relationships. He says it to me now.
(59:35) You know, he was the one that said to me last year, why are you wasting your time going to these brand events? They need you. You don't need them. And I was like >> Men can see this a lot more clearly than we can. >> stressed. I was like, I'm so stressed. I'm so exhausted over here and here. And he was just like, why are you going to that? And he was just like, that that doesn't deserve your time.
(59:54) And I remember thinking like What the hell? No, it's of course it deserves my time. And they invited me. I need to be nice. They invited me and like, you know, it it's an amazing brand and it's an amazing opportunity and how could I let that go, you know? It it's it's so good for me to be there. And he and he literally said to me, they're using you.
(1:00:11) He goes, they're using you for a free facial, for a free whatever it was. I remember the exact morning and he said, they're using you. So if you he goes, I just wouldn't even bother wasting my time with someone like that. And I remember being so shocked. For that after that day, I said no for the for the next like 3 weeks to go to any brand events cuz I was really overwhelmed.
(1:00:31) I had never felt so much better. And guess what? All of those brands still wanted to work with me. And he was right. He was like, when you you have to be able to decipher right? What who's wasting your time and who's not. So that is so true actually. >> And I think we can learn a lot from men around boundaries. >> Right. >> Men have no problem if they're done with you to just disappear.
(1:00:51) Women were like, we'll hold on to a connection from like 20 years ago. Like, >> [laughter] >> and I feel so bad. He messaged me. I have to respond. Good girl conditioning. Good girl conditioning. And so, the right person for you will love your boundaries. They will love your self-respect. They will love your ability to say no.
(1:01:08) Because that's actually what makes you a like they say the high value person. It's the if imagine for any woman, you went on a date with every single guy that swiped right on you on a dating app. Cuz you feel bad. Cuz he was available. You would be on 20 dates a day for the rest of your life. And 99% of them you would have nothing in common with, nothing to speak about.
(1:01:29) And so, you do need to be selective with your time and energy because that's time and energy you could be spending on your dharma, your purpose, your friends, your family, like people who it's reciprocal. Because what we're not asking for is not woman need to be worshipped and men are are are this.
(1:01:46) It's a reciprocal energy exchange, but men and women just have different gifts. Right? And so, women we are more of the oracle. We are connected to the unseen. We're connected more to children and nature and and the heart. And men are stronger with decision-making. They can see things a lot more linearly. They can move ahead quickly and we can learn a lot from them, too.
(1:02:07) So, we we do need each other. And this is the natural Shiva Shakti polarity that I feel so many of us are are craving, but it's to find that balance first within ourselves. You know, the story of Shiva and Shakti is that that Shiva was, you know, out meditating on Mount Kailash and he's like leaving society of he's just going to go into samadhi.
(1:02:28) And all the girls wanted Shiva. And they were all trying to get his attention. He would not wake up. And finally, Parvati, she just decided, "I'm going to go on a mountain and meditate, too." Just for herself. And she meditated, he meditated thousands of years until she matched his vibration. And he could feel, "Who is this who's matching my vibration?" He went and found her.
(1:02:50) And she's on her one leg >> Wow. >> own yoga. And he's like, "Who are you? The first woman that's not chasing me, but focus on her own dharma, her own path." >> Beautiful. >> And together they merged and created the mountains and the rivers and the ocean and the entire universe. >> Wow. >> And so, embody that Parvati, embody that Shakti. That's true feminine energy.
(1:03:14) Being so devoted to your highest self that only someone who is your equal manifestation, you will be able to create a dharmic relationship. A dharmic relationship is two embodied people creating something that is larger than life, creating a project like children in a healthy conscious way. Something that is a north star that is more than I feel good when I'm with you and I just feel in love.
(1:03:39) That is what we really want, but we have to embody our own dharma first. Whereas most of us are in karmic relationships that it's healing inner child stuff, healing this, healing that. And look, we have to go through a series of those in order to finally reach the dharma, but eventually you realize I could just be doing these karmic repeated loops and normally it's the same loop again and again and again.
(1:03:59) Oh, the unavailable guy. Oh, the guy who, you know, isn't ready for commitment, whatever the thing is. Sometimes you need to pattern interrupt. There's something you need to shift internally and not for the goal of, "Okay, I'm going to find my dharma to find the dharmic relationship." Once again, this love story is about you and who you become.
(1:04:16) >> I really love what you've said around the Shakti and the Lord Shiva energy and, you know, my name is actually based after Lord Shiva, which is that's why I've also connected. But anyway, um >> [clears throat] >> There's something that you wrote about in your book, the funeral of your former self and there's three steps and it's a ritual that you do.
(1:04:37) Talk to me about this ritual. >> So, we can't have the rebirth without the death. >> Yeah. >> So many of us were like, "Okay, sign me up for the rebirth. >> [laughter] >> I'm going to have my my glow up today." But we need [snorts] to have the death of the former self. And that is fully letting go of the roles that we played, the identity that we created, and giving gratitude to that version of ourself.
(1:05:00) She took us as far as we needed to and it's time to lovingly release her. So, the ritual I have is actually doing a funeral for yourself. So, you will write an obituary. Okay. So, Sahara Maiden Sahara here rests and she was a beautiful soul who fell in love young and gave up, you know, her travels and things because she just loved this person so much and she prioritized the relationship and now she lays to rest because it's time for her to embark on her own journey.
(1:05:31) And we're so grateful for how devoted she was and how loving she was and it's also time for her to now pour that into herself. And And so it's like giving gratitude but also acknowledging what is dying. What are the aspects of yourself you are lovingly letting go of? And there's two ways to do this. You can do this with a friend, which I really recommend, and then you will have the friend read out your obituary and you will lie down and you can either put like a weighted blanket on yourself so you can feel that like heaviness and
(1:05:59) then like put put flowers on yourself or my friend and I actually went outside and we put dirt. She put like dirt over me and we literally did like [laughter] a full funeral. >> What? >> Yes, in the in on a Scorpio full moon in the dark. It was very powerful. >> Okay. >> And I >> That's scary. >> No, no, it wasn't.
(1:06:19) We were in Los Angeles in Topanga. >> [laughter] >> Um but I really felt that like, "Wow, like she died." Like because when I look back on pictures of myself before this, I don't even recognize that girl. It's like I look her in the eye and I'm like it just feels like a different person. Like there's such a depth that I now have that I see she doesn't.
(1:06:39) And she was so cute and I can see she was really trying her hardest but like >> Wow. >> That's just not me anymore. And immediately after it happened, I knew I didn't want to use any pictures or videos of me from that former life at all. Like this Actually, I started to look very, very different quickly. Because there's when we clear energetic cords from people, the masks that we wear wear off.
(1:07:04) And so people are like, "Oh my god, you reversed aged. Like what's going on?" Like I'm 35 years old and people don't believe me. I look younger now than I did when I was in my 20s. Because I had to subconsciously wear these masks and these ways I was adapting that I couldn't be my full expressed self. And so, you know, this is also why the celibacy is important because you your womb carries energetic cords of that person.
(1:07:28) >> Wow. >> And so it takes time to to clear. Um minimum 3 months. And that's just from a maybe a short-term thing. Especially if you're with someone for a long time, it can take a much longer period of time. Because when you're sexually engaging with someone, it's like the deepest level of of of consciousness exchange.
(1:07:44) Um and so, having that funeral for yourself is a ritual for yourself to have a line in the sand of like that old version of me is dead. But then when you start to go into those old patterns to be like, that's not what we do anymore. This new version of me. And and to also just be curious in who that new version of you is and not rush it.
(1:08:01) >> Wow. >> Because when you're in the death, it's a very different energy than the full rebirth. Right? It's like the fall leaves need to fall and then there's a winter. And the winter, it's just bare. And there were like those 6 months, I had no idea who I was going to become. I was in the subliminal space, but I started to realize the longer I let myself linger in the unknown, the more magical my life would become.
(1:08:25) Because the first thing after my divorce, because I lived in LA, we moved to Miami. I was like, "Okay, I'm going to move back to LA. I'm going to sign a lease and move back to LA cuz that's what I know and that's what's safe." But I was like, "Okay, hold on a second, girl. I know you really want to sign this lease, but like what if we just waited a little bit?" And so I just stayed in Airbnbs for those 6 months.
(1:08:43) And I stayed in places I normally wouldn't. And I really recommend this after a death. Do the opposite of what you normally do. >> Mhm. >> I was always a beach girl. I was like, "What if I went and my fear was being alone?" My fear was being in a house by myself. >> [snorts] >> And then so I said, "What if I rent an Airbnb up in the mountains in Laurel Canyon and I just had a moment completely on my own and for 3 months I did that and I went so deep into why am I so afraid of being alone? And I would sit with myself when that loneliness
(1:09:11) would come and then I start to trace it. Okay, it's coming around 2:00 in the afternoon when I'm working and I'm tired and I want a break. I start to feel these waves of loneliness and I want someone to hold me and I wish I had someone to cuddle with and then what do I do? I go on Instagram. I go on a dating app. I do this.
(1:09:28) I just started to become aware of this is the sequence. So I would go outside and I would lie down on my yoga mat and I would just feel in my heart the depth of this aloneness. What am I so afraid of feeling right now? Imagine I'm just completely by myself here in this house in the woods and the mountains for the rest of my life.
(1:09:48) Just imagine and I never see anyone again. What would happen then, Sahara? I would say, well then it's like I don't matter. Okay, why do you not matter? Cuz no one no one sees me. No one's interacting with me. So you don't matter no one's interacting with you? Well then I can't help people. So you don't matter if you're not helping people.
(1:10:05) If I don't help people, I'm not worthy of living. So you're only worthy of living if you're helping people? Yes. And that was the thought I had that was driving all of this that I am not worthy of life if I am not helping people. And so many of us women are conditioned to be like this. I have to help my friend. I have to help my mom.
(1:10:26) I have to help. I have to help. I have to help so you love me. And so if I'm on my own and I'm not helpful, I had this belief that I don't even deserve space on this planet. And I and I knew in my mind, no, of course not. Like if I am the witch on the mountain and I never interact with anyone, I am still worthy of life. Yes.
(1:10:47) And we have to go and this is why I talk about doing this bottom of the barrel triple E method. Go to that baseline fear that you have because so many of us our sense of worth is tied into our our relationships. Imagine there are no more relationships. It's you in a vacuum. But you are still you. >> I love it.
(1:11:07) >> And I realized, you know that story they would say, "Oh, don't be alone and the witch on the hill who's by herself with all the cats." This is a fear story they put in us from the time we were girls. Every Snow White, Cinderella, it's always this old single woman who's evil and scary and was never chosen and she's miserable.
(1:11:29) So don't be her, be the princess who's chosen. And so we are so afraid. But I'm like, "You know what? Imagine I just live here on my own and I got these potions. I'm drinking ashwagandha. I have lots of animals. And guess what? I actually can see my friends. And I said I actually can do all of these things.
(1:11:49) " Is that if this is really the death sentence, I think there's a lot worse situations than having a house to myself with a lot of animals and plants. >> Wow. I mean, I love that because healing is all about finding yourself again. It's all about you. And it's all about what is right for you, right? Not this definition that society has told us.
(1:12:07) Without kind of going abroad or going away or moving house, cuz some people may not be able to do that, what's another practical way that someone can reconnect with themselves? >> So the first thing I would do is change your space. >> Okay. >> Reorganize your furniture. Change, you know, I love posters because it's something very affordable that you can change.
(1:12:27) This new version of you, what do you want to look at? Because we take so much inspiration from our space. So maybe you want to add in more bright pops of colors or you know, a style. Especially when you're in a relationship, you often have to like agree on a shared like gender neutral style. So it's like maybe you want to do all pink and you want to paint a wall.
(1:12:43) Like creating a sanctuary for yourself that you look around and you feel so met. Because I do believe as women especially, when we feel energetically met by our space. It's this exhale of I feel seen. And so creating that space and I know you might say, "I have a landlord. I can't paint your wall." Everyone with a rental can.
(1:13:04) I really recommend just going on Etsy. There's so much just like cute art you can get. Pull and peel wallpaper, things that you can just The pull and peel ones you can just use water and take them off. And so for me I created like an Egyptian temple home. And I have You got to come over. My walls are way are hiero- glyphics. Yes.
(1:13:22) And it's like I literally feel like I'm in an ancient site when I come home. And so of course I'm going to remember I am the goddess and my body is an altar because I'm literally living in a temple. And I have like all these gorgeous goddesses and statues and everything is just so me.
(1:13:40) And then right now I just went to Brazil and so I'm very into like the pink and the and things like that. And the second thing I want to say is do a photo shoot that embodies this new version of you. So become that art. So and a photo shoot you can do anywhere or even in a studio. So think of make a Pinterest board. What is this new, you know, 2.
(1:13:58) 0 style of mine? And maybe you don't know but start to notice what you're pinning. You know, maybe it's this like vampire velvet, very like seductive look. Or maybe she's like this tropical, you know, Chiquita banana mommy or whatever that looks like for you. And then do a photo shoot of that because there's something around the embodiment of the planning of the shoot, the outfit, and then the posing of it and then having it as evidence.
(1:14:24) You know, I remember I did this So I met this girl on a plane on my way back from this whole like divorce catastrophe and I recognized her cuz I had bumped into her on another street and she was on the plane next to me. We were flying back from Dubai so it was a very long flight. We ended up talking and she showed me she was in she was a musical artist.
(1:14:43) So again, God was putting all these little breadcrumbs on my path. And she showed me this picture of herself and she was just wearing like rhinestones with like nothing under it. And I was like, "Your husband is okay with this?" And she put it on her Instagram. I was like, she she was like, "He loves it.
(1:14:58) " And her husband is a very well-known artist named Black. You've definitely heard his music. And they make music together and I was like, "What?" It was so far from my reality of like, you know, my ex definitely I couldn't even post like a bikini to the here. And [snorts] then I asked her, when I got back I was like, "Where did you get that rhinestone outfit?" She was like, "Oh, my friend actually makes it.
(1:15:18) " She gave me the girl's contact. And I decided, I'm going to get an outfit and plan a photo shoot just for myself. And when I was going on a trip and I was like, "I'm going to go to a waterfall and I'm going to wear it and like take pictures." And those pictures for me when I would cry, I would go back and look at them.
(1:15:34) And I'd be like, "Remember who you are." And they just became such an anchor of like, "It's not even a Pinterest or this." It's like, "I am the Pinterest. I am that that archetype exists in me." And it just became this little piece of evidence that I have. So, do a photo shoot that embodies this new dream girl version of you.
(1:15:50) >> I love that idea. Wow, I think that is so good. I'm going to do that right now, actually. >> Absolutely. >> to remind yourself of who you are also, just constantly this person that you can reconnect with again. I think that is absolutely incredible. Thank you so much for sharing that. One of the things that I really want to just close on is our intuition.
(1:16:14) Because I think as women, we think we have the best intuition. And some people are just more intuitive than others, but I definitely think women are intuitive. Like that is a statement I can die on a hill on, right? I do think that. However, you said at the start, you had no idea that your husband was cheating. You There were no signs.
(1:16:32) There was nothing that was kind of wrong. It just He just confessed to you one day, right? And that was a shock. Now, somebody who's gone through a heartbreak like that, somebody who's gone through a sudden change, somebody who's gone through deceit can instantly question their intuition. Why did I not see this? Right, and that can stay with them. Maybe I'm not noticing things.
(1:16:52) And what can happen from that is like you said it also in your quote, you can become more guarded. You can become more cautious. You can start to doubt and see the negative in everything because you're so scared that someone's going to lie to you again. How do you avoid that from happening? And then how do you connect back into your intuition? >> There is a benefit to that skepticism.
(1:17:16) >> Okay. >> Because that is the death of the maiden. The maiden So, I remember I was so sad. I'm never going to be able to trust again. This killed my ability to trust. But the maiden just wants to trust because she doesn't want the responsibility of having to have discernment. So, I used to think I'm a trusting person cuz I just trust people.
(1:17:36) Right. But that doesn't mean they're trustworthy. >> Mhm. >> I can trust you, but doesn't mean just cuz I've trusted you now you're going to do everything how I expected. I'm going to choose to trust because that feels good for me, but I'm also going to have the discernment of I might find out more information that may cause me to no longer trust you.
(1:17:56) You know, and like that happens sometimes with friends. I recently had a friend for a very long time, trustworthy, and they shifted, you know? And and sometimes these things can happen, too. And so, it doesn't mean that you're negative or pessimistic to just be honest with shifts. Around the not being able to trust your intuition, that was another thing I felt like how could I have been so spiritual but not have seen this before? And the thing about the dark night is it will reveal to you when you're ready for it.
(1:18:24) >> Right. >> I believe that had I known about his infidelity earlier on, I wouldn't have been in a strong enough space to have my own money, leave the relationship, you know? I got what I needed from it at that time that the chapter was genuinely closed and it was ready to be known. Like certain, you know, uh teapots are boiling and it has to take to a certain tipping point for it to bubble over.
(1:18:48) >> Right. >> And as we ascend in our consciousness, things that you know, I think that relationship on some timeline version of myself could have stayed in alignment for longer, but as I was growing and growing and growing, it was like, "Okay, now this now needs to be brought to light.
(1:19:03) " So, trust you found out when you were ready to. And looking back on it, were there signs? I wouldn't say there were signs of infidelity, but there were signs that we were not on the same page. There were signs that I didn't feel super sexually attracted to him cuz he wasn't really trying on me cuz oftentimes when someone's cheating, they stop trying.
(1:19:21) Um there were signs that he was avoidant and I kind of just accepted that he was avoidant. So, there were things I normalized in a relationship that I wouldn't normalize any longer. And so, while it wasn't directly related to cheating, these are things that's are often symptoms of cheating that I just didn't know about before cuz I had never been in an experience like this.
(1:19:40) So, knowing what you know now, just know you'll never you never go down the same path again as long as you learn from the lesson. And I feel like a lot of people are so afraid of what if it happens again? >> Right. >> Now you know, and so you'll never walk down that same path. And I do believe our intuition actually becomes stronger when we're able to see the dark as much as we are the light.
(1:20:00) Because if we only you can't be intuitive but only see good because intuition also will make you look at things you don't want to look at. >> Wow, I love that. I think that's such a good line. You can never be intuitive and only see the good. >> Because that's delusion. >> Delusion, yeah, wow. That is so true. I love it.
(1:20:17) If someone could just take one step towards becoming that version of themselves, towards going to the dark and coming out the other side towards the light, what would you say to them? >> Well, definitely get my book. >> [laughter] >> Buy the book. >> Get the book. I feel having evidence that it's possible. You know, I would look at different people who transformed their lives, often older women.
(1:20:40) I would see these women have gone through so much, multiple divorces and things. Like I would look at people like Madonna and Cher, and I'm like, you know, they're icons. I don't know what their relationship status is, but look at what they've created. And so, who are those expanders for you? And I feel having friends around you that feel match you in this in this new chapter because often this dark night, it's it's an evolution for for new people in your life to shift and and conversations to be had.
(1:21:09) So, maybe it's time to also take inventory of like, who am I sharing my energy with? And then putting yourself in places where you want to be found, you know, whether it is going to conferences or dance classes or wherever else. And that's how you're naturally going to start to make circles with new people who are doing the things that this new dream girl version of yourself is doing, and you start to create a new life that way.
(1:21:30) >> I love it. Honestly, this conversation has been so powerful, so inspiring, and you know, really emotional at times cuz I can just tell the journey that you've been on has been so positive and so transformative. So, you know, for anybody who's at home and kind of with us right now, I really hope that they've taken from it what I've taken from it.
(1:21:48) And you know, I just [snorts] can't wait for your book to come out cuz I think it's going to inspire and help so many women. So, thank you. >> Thank you so much for having me. And this is my first conversation on the book. And you know, even just the writing of this book has been a really cathartic journey of like, "Wow, this is really my life.
(1:22:06) " And I hope that me sharing the story helps women not have shame around the things that they've gone through and making them feel like, "I'm too heavy." And you know, no one's going to want to be with me, but the right people for you, friends for you, like world for you is awaiting you because of this initiation that you walked through.
(1:22:23) And people will be so amazed by how you overcame it. And so, never let yourself be defined by what happened, but who you became as a result. >> Amazing. Thank you. Everybody talks about physically preparing for a baby. But no one really talks about how to prepare for your life for the fact that you will not be operating at 100% efficiency.
(1:22:48) [music] A baby's created by two people, and yet it is only one person whose entire identity changes, whose body changes, whose mindset changes. So, I think [music] this kind of comes on to the next step, which is step five. Decide what you keep, and decide what you want to let go. >> [music] >> This is the hardest part because it's not just about systems, it's kind of about control.
(1:23:09) You literally cannot have it all unless you're willing to push yourself at some point.