Women and Vedas - What Do The Shastras Say!? | Stree Dharma Q&A |
Author Name:Bhakthamrutham
Youtube Channel Url:https://www.youtube.com/@Bhakthamrutham
Youtube Video URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k_M_QIomFo
Title: Women and Vedas - What Do The Shastras Say!? | Stree Dharma Q&A |
Author Name: Bhakthamrutham
Description: What do the Shastras say about women's eligibility to study the Vedas? In this episode of Svairalapam, Paravastu Varadarajan examines the scriptural sources concerning women's Vedic adhikara, women Rishis, Upanayanam, and the traditional understanding of Vedic study.
The discussion also explores how women attain spiritual knowledge, the distinction between Vedic eligibility and moksha, and whether historical invasions have influenced prevailing understandings.
Chapters -
00:00 Introduction
2:00 What Are the Shastras?
8:15 Who Can Interpret the Shastras?
12:30 Shastric References on Women's Vedic Eligibility
18:10 Women Rishis and Seers
31:35 Upanayanam for Women
33:15 How Do Women Gain Spiritual Knowledge?
36:45 Why Do Men Study the Vedas?
42:45 Restrictions on Men's Vedic Study
45:35 Which Parts of the Vedas Can Women Study?
57:30 Are Women Sinful or Inferior?
1:01:30 An Important Message
1:03:55 Have Invasions Influenced This?
1:05:05 Outro
#WomenAndVedas #SriVaishnavism #Shastras #Svairalapam#StreeDharma #SanatanaDharma #Dharma #HinduDharma #Shastras #Hinduism #Svairalapam #WomenInSanatanaDharma
Transcript:
(00:00) You said Vedas are not for women. So, how do they gain knowledge? [music] >> Can women learn Vedas? Yes, of course, they can learn some Vedas, the Dravida Vedas. >> Why do men need to learn Vedas then? They can also do the same that women do, right? [music] >> Yeah. When a brahmana doesn't learn Vedas, he incurs sin.
(00:22) >> A part of the comment sections has asked for shastric reference, Swami. [music] >> You have all these shastras, and then you have this tradition of acharyas through whom you understand what you need to perform, and also you understand how to interpret those shastras. >> Is there a part in [music] shastras where it says that men can't read certain things, Swami? Like women are not supposed to read Vedas such that is there something for men? >> So, we are basically Sama Vedis.
(00:49) So, if I have to start learning Vedas, I must start only with Sama Veda. >> Okay. >> I cannot go and start learning Yajur Veda. >> So, people [music] make the mistake of attributing gender to jivatma, and they get offended sometimes. Welcome to Swaida Lapam. We had done a video titled Sthree Dharmam.
(01:22) And we received a lot of comments under it, and we grouped the comments into different sections. Uh majority of it was asking about women and Vedas. So, today we are going to talk about that, and get more clarity on that issue. We welcome our Swami >> Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan. >> Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan. >> Swami, as you heard, we are going to talk about women and Vedas.
(01:42) >> Okay. >> As I said, Swami, we have received a lot of comments in the video, and we have divided the comment section into different groups. So, we are going to be answering one part of that today. As I said, women and Vedas, and we are going to answer as much as possible in this video and give clarity regarding this issue, Swami. Yeah, sure.
(02:03) In our previous video, you had said that Shastras prohibit women from learning or reading Vedas. So, a part of the comment sections has asked for Shastric reference, Swami. So, before we go into that, I just want to ask you again, what are Shastras? >> See, in the previous video, I had told that Shastras prohibit women from learning Vedas.
(02:27) >> [sighs] >> So, I usually do not quote the verses because sometimes when we start quoting, it is from this chapter or this adhyaya, this shloka and all, it becomes slightly tough for the people to grasp. So, I avoid quoting. But since people have asked, let's try to explain that. But before getting into that, I think your question was regarding uh what Shastras are, right? So, when we use the word Shastras, what does that mean? Basically, the word Shastra is derived from a particular root word in Samskritam.
(03:04) And uh people say, "Shasanat Shastram." That which orders us to do is Shastram. It tells us what to do and what not to do. That is Shastram. Again, even in Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says, "Tasmac Shastram Pramanam Te Karya Akarya Vyavasthito. Nyatva Shastra Vidhanoktam Karma Kartum Iharhasi." You can only know what to do and what not to do through the Shastras.
(03:37) So, you must understand what Shastras are saying and then act accordingly. So, Shastras are the basis for our understanding of what to do and what not to do. Again, what exactly do we mean when we use the word shastras? See, shastras is a word that can denote the corpus of a large number of texts. It starts from Vedas.
(04:04) And then you have a Smritis. Then you have Itihasas. You have Puranas. You have Agamas. You have Grihya Sutras, Kalpa Sutras, etc. Sometimes you can even bring in shastras such as Mimamsa Shastra. And all these together are called shastras. Okay? So, when we say shastra, it is not just Veda. Of course, Veda is the most important one among all shastras.
(04:35) But it is not just Vedas, but there are so many more. Okay. So, the first one, Vedas, which is also called a Shruti. Upanishads are also part of Vedas. They are called a Vedanta or Upanishad. Okay? So, among Veda, you have uh Upanishads and the remaining part. And then you have Smriti Granthas. Like you must have heard about Manusmriti, Parashara Smriti, and there are many more.
(05:09) These are called Smriti Granthas and also sometimes referred to as Dharma Shastras. Okay? Then you have the famous Itihasas, Ramayana, Mahabharata. And And then you have a Puranas. The 18 main Puranas. And then Then there are many more Puranas. You have Agamas such as Pancharatra Agama, Vaikhanasa Agama. These all form what we call shastras.
(05:33) Other than that, you know, I was speaking about Mimamsa Shastra. Uh there is Nyaya Shastra and all, which also can be counted as a shastra sometimes. You [sighs] also have uh you know, uh many sutras such as Grihya Sutras, Kalpa Sutras, etc. which help you understand. There are Veda Angas. So, there are so many texts which can be included in this big corpus of texts called Shastras.
(06:04) >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, for a person to understand what he needs to do or what he must not do, >> [snorts] >> he must go through all these things. >> Okay. >> But, is it possible for a normal human being like us to go through all these things? >> No. >> It will take ages, many janmas. So, what we do is we follow a tradition where we have great Acharyas who have gone through all these things and come to conclusions and given us the things that we must do and the knowledge we must gain.
(06:44) Okay. So, you have all these Shastras and then you have this tradition of Acharyas through whom you understand what you need to perform and also you understand how to interpret those Shastras. >> Okay. In the previous video and even now, Swami, you're telling interpreting Shastras.
(07:05) So, how does one interpret a Shastra? >> See, if you take Upanishads, Upanishads have been interpreted differently by Shankaracharya, differently by Ramanujacharya, >> Okay. >> differently by Madhvacharya. And then you have many more interpretations, okay? >> Okay. >> But, as a Vaishnava, I follow the interpretation of Ramanujacharya. >> Okay.
(07:26) >> An Advaitin would follow the interpretation of Shankaracharya. >> Okay. >> A Madhva would follow Madhvacharya. >> Okay. >> Someone else would follow his Acharya. >> Okay. >> So, when I speak about Shastras, I am speaking about Shastras and also the interpretation that has been given by my acharyas. >> Okay. >> Okay.
(07:48) So, it is important to understand what shastras are and how to interpret them. >> So, you're telling that uh we are following the Ramanujacharya's interpretation of shastras in our >> Yeah. See, there are many points which are common for all these acharyas. >> Okay. >> And there are points where they differ. >> Okay. >> So, there will be many commonalities among us and also some differences.
(08:09) >> Okay. >> Not that every sentence would be uh interpreted differently by every acharya. That's not the case. >> Uh is it possible that I can have an interpretation of my own with my knowledge? >> See, the shastras are there to be interpreted. It's okay if you interpret shastras as you wish. But one thing to be considered here is are you eligible enough to interpret all the shastras? >> Okay.
(08:35) >> Because you must be knowing shrutis, you must be knowing smritis, you must be knowing itihasas, puranas. You must have learned the mimamsa shastra. That itself is such a big shastra. >> What is mimamsa shastra, Swami? >> I had already used that word mimamsa shastra. Mimamsa shastra is basically the shastra which deals with the interpretation of vedavakyas, Vedic sentences.
(08:58) >> Okay. >> So, uh if you want to understand how Vedic sentences uh explain something, you have to go through the mimamsa shastra which has been written by a great rishi called Jaimini. >> Okay. >> He has given us the rules through which we must interpret shastras. >> So, you're telling that shastras can be interpreted through mimamsa shastra only.
(09:24) >> Yeah. So, Jaimini Maharishi has given us the rules. Every rule is argued, debated about, and then a rule is formulated >> Okay. >> regarding how to interpret a type of vedavakya. >> Okay. I I understand this, Swami, but uh is it possible for you to give me a small example? So, since you are asking for an example, I'll try to give an example.
(09:47) The first thing that crosses my mind, that comes into my mind, is uh this uh thing where you know, a sentence is uh examined. The sentence is Pashu Malabheta. See, there is a sacrifice of a Pashu. Now, if you use the word Pashu, what do you think what what Pashu is? >> Cow. >> Yeah, usually in our area, we consider Pashu as cow. But, in Samskritam, Pashu doesn't mean a cow.
(10:22) The word Pashu can mean cow, but not exactly cow. Pashu is a word that can denote any animal which has, you know, a hairy tail. >> Okay. >> Okay? So, here, the word Pashu doesn't mean a cow. >> Okay. >> But, actually, it could mean many things. It could be a horse, it could be a cow, it could be a goat, it could be anything else.
(10:44) >> Okay. >> So, how do I get to know what exactly it is? So, there is this Mimamsa Sutram, which speaks about Chago Vamantra Varnat. So, here, the word Pashu denotes a Chaga, a type of goat, >> Okay. >> which must be sacrificed in a particular ritual. >> Okay. >> Okay? So, if you take that sentence without the context, you won't be able to understand the meaning of the word Pashu.
(11:09) >> Okay. >> Mimamsa Shastra comes in, it tells you how to interpret those words. >> Okay. >> So, you you must uh examine the whole context. If you have some other sentence which seems to uh help you understand this. And so, there are many rules of interpretation. Basically, there are 1,000 Adhikaranas. >> Oh. >> In every Adhikarana, a A of interpretation is uh you know, given to us by Jaimini.
(11:34) >> Okay. >> Jaimini has written the Purva Mimamsa Sutras. >> Okay. Okay, so >> there is a Shastra which is there for you to understand the rules of interpretation. >> Okay. >> Anyone who just has some knowledge of Sanskrit cannot start interpreting Shastras on their own on their own. >> Okay. >> There is a lot of things that must be learned before you even think about interpreting Shastras.
(12:00) >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay, Swamiji. To So, to summarize it all uh Shastras are Vedas, Itihasas, Puranas, Smritis uh etc. And interpreting Shastra cannot be done just by a uh meager knowledge of uh language. >> Language, yeah. >> So, it has to be done through uh >> a rigorous process of Mimamsa. >> Okay. So, So, that is what I have understood from this uh part.
(12:31) So, moving on to the next and the main part of the video, you women are not supposed to learn or read Vedas. So, where is the reference for this, Swamiji? >> Um see we are just here to represent the standpoint, represent the views of our Purva Acharyas. >> Okay. >> Okay? In this particular matter I think we are representing most of the Acharyas who are hailed in Sanatana Dharma.
(12:57) >> Okay. >> Meet Shankaracharya, Ramanujacharya, anyone else. Okay? So, if you examine Shastras, you'll find many Acharyas in many texts speaking about a woman not having the Adhikara, the eligibility to learn Vedas. That you can find everywhere. But if we really search the sources for those sentences, sources for them telling so there are some things that I would like to tell here.
(13:29) First thing, there is an Upanishad which is called Nrisimha Tapaniya Upanishad. In that particular Upanishad, you will find a verse which speaks about a woman not being eligible to learn Vedas. >> Okay. >> I think, you know, our audience, they can go through Nrisimha Tapaniya Upanishad.
(13:49) I think, you know, everything is available on the net now. So, explicitly Nrisimha Tapaniya Upanishad says that a woman do not have the eligibility of learning the Vedas. That is one thing. This has been quoted by other acharyas in other texts also. And then you have this famous verse in Srimad Bhagavatam. >> Okay. [snorts] >> Bhagavatam, it is, you know, a very famous text that is authentic for many sampradayas all around India.
(14:18) In Bhagavatam, in the first skandha, fourth chapter, there is this 25th shloka. Okay. It says, it speaks about the reason why Veda Vyasa wrote the Mahabharata. >> Mhm. >> It says, "Stri shudra dvija bandhunam trayi na shruti gochara." It speaks about the reason uh for the creation of Mahabharata.
(14:41) It says, "There are some people who are not eligible to uh learn things from the Vedas. For them, they cannot listen to Vedas and, you know, uh learn the meanings of Vedas by themselves." Thinking about this, Veda Vyasa wrote Mahabharata >> Okay. >> so that people can gain the Vedic knowledge from Mahabharata itself and attain what they want to attain.
(15:05) >> Okay. >> Okay. So, it clearly states that "Trayi na shruti gochara." The word trayi means the Vedas. Okay. There are many names for the Vedas, Amnayaha, Shrutihi, Trayi, Chandaha, etc. "Trayi na shruti gochara." Uh you know, they must not listen to Vedas. This has been clearly mentioned in Bhagavatam.
(15:27) And you can go through the various commentaries written by various acharyas. Most of them have this opinion. >> Okay. >> There is no doubt in that. So, this is one thing. And also, many of our acharyas uh, you know, explain this in the following manner. In the Vedas, the upanayana ceremony has been prescribed for the traivarnikas. The three varnas.
(15:52) The verse goes on like this. Ashtavarsham Brahmanam Upanayita. Ekadasha Varsham Rajanyam. Dwadasha Varsham Vaishyam. So, basically it says that a brahmana must go through his upanayana ceremony when he is 8 years old. The 8 years here is counted from pregnancy itself. >> Okay. >> They say Garbhashtamam. >> Okay.
(16:15) >> So, that will amount to 7 years. >> 7 years. >> Okay. So, Ashtavarsham Brahmanam Upanayita. Ekadasha Varsham Rajanyam. For Kshatriya, it is 11. So, that may amount to 10. And Dwadasha Varsham Vaishyam. So, some acharyas in commentaries say that upanayana ceremony has been prescribed only for these three varnas.
(16:34) >> Okay. >> And learning of Vedas is only possible after going through the upanayana ceremony. Since upanayana ceremony is only for these three varnas, and it has been given only for purushas, that is men, we can now conclude that others do not have upanayana, and also they are not eligible to learn Vedas. >> Okay.
(16:59) >> This is one thing that has been mentioned in some of the commentaries, such as uh, Bhashyam, etc. >> Okay. >> The Brahma Sutra Bhashyam, etc. Okay. >> Okay. >> So, we have seen three things. We have seen from the Upanishads themselves, under the Simha Tapaniya Upanishad, and that is a very authentic Upanishad which has been commented upon by many Acharyas, okay? And then we saw a verse from Bhagavata itself.
(17:22) And then this logic that has been told by many Acharyas in various commentaries. So, these are the three sources through which we can understand what our Acharyas actually taught. >> Okay. >> Other than this, you can find a numerous sentences in various Shastras, starting from grammar, Vyakarana, where uh you know, commentators have spoken about women not having the eligibility to learn Vedas.
(17:52) >> Okay. >> Okay. Maybe if you have time, I'll explain that later on. >> Sure, sure, Swami. >> Yeah. >> So, you have given reference from the Upanishads, uh Srimad Bhagavatam, and Brahma Sutra Bhashyam. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, [snorts] which tell that women are not eligible to uh learn or read Vedas. >> Yeah, kind of, yes.
(18:08) >> Okay, Swami. But, Swami, we have received a lot of uh comments telling that women can read Vedas, or women have added verses to Vedas. So, uh what is your opinion about that, Swami? >> Uh first of all, when we speak about, you know, people adding verses to Vedas themselves, we must understand that no one has newly written the Vedas.
(18:31) >> Okay. >> The major Sampradayas of Sanatana Dharma agree upon this thing. And that Vedas are Apaurusheya. Vedas have been written by none. And when I say none, even Bhagwan hasn't written the Vedas. >> Okay. >> So, Vedas are eternal just like Bhagwan. >> Okay. [snorts] >> Like Bhagwan is eternal, Vedas are also eternal.
(18:56) Okay? This is something that everyone must understand. When we say uh Rishis wrote the Vedas, or they added verses, what we must understand is uh Rishis did not write by themselves. They are just a Mantra Drashtara. That is, they saw those mantras. They received those mantras. That's all. They never wrote those mantras by themselves. >> Okay.
(19:19) >> This is the traditional belief of all the Sampradayas. Okay? So, Rishis are not authors of the Vedas. >> Okay. >> They are just transmitters of Vedas. >> Okay. >> Pravartanam they say in Sanskritam. >> Okay. >> Okay, among these Rishis some are women. >> Okay. >> How do we know that? You know, in Rigveda or Yajurveda, Samaveda, we have many mantras.
(19:47) Okay? When there is a mantra, usually every mantra has a Rishi, Chandas, and Devata. A Rishi who saw that mantra. Chandas is the meter in which that mantra has been composed. Like there are many Chandas, Anushtubh, Trishtubh, Jagati, Pankti, and all. So, like, you know, even in a normal shloka, we have some Chandas meter, right? Like we have Vishnu Sahasranama, Vishvam Vishnur Vashatkaro Bhuta Bhavya Bhavat Prabhu.
(20:16) This is called Anushtubh Chandas. >> Okay. >> Anushtubh Chandas is even found in Vedas. Okay, [snorts] this is Chandas, meter we say. So, that is Chandas, and then you have the Devata for whom that mantra is dedicated to. >> Okay. >> So, each mantra has a Rishi who saw that mantra, a Chandas, the meter in which it is composed, and then the Devata to whom that mantra is dedicated to.
(20:43) >> Okay. >> Rishi, Chandaha, >> Devata. >> Devata. There are some texts which speak about the Rishis, the Chandas, and Devatas of each mantra. >> Okay. >> There are some Anukramani, they say. >> Mhm. >> For Rigveda and all, there are some Anukramanis, and in those we find that some Rishikas some Rishis, female Rishis, have been mentioned.
(21:12) And as those who saw those mantras. >> Okay. >> For example, it may be Lopamudra, Apala, etc. Okay. >> Now, does this establish that a woman can learn Vedas? No. I would like to make two points here. One thing, we don't know the process of someone receiving a mantra. Do we know Do we have any rishi? No. So, we don't know exactly what happened during that time, how these came to be perceived as mantras, we don't know.
(21:43) And does this directly establish that a woman can learn all the Vedas? No. >> Okay. >> You need a shastric injunction for that. >> Yes. >> Okay. That is one point. >> Okay. >> And again, even if we infer that a woman can learn Vedas since they have seen some mantras, we cannot infer that that can be done now. >> Okay.
(22:07) >> Because it could be something that happened in a previous kalpa. It could have happened in a previous yuga. So, each kalpa has its own set of dharmas. Each yuga has its own set of dharmas. Okay? >> I was about to ask this for me as as my second question because somebody in the comment section, they asked that in shastras as it is told that in the previous kalpa, women could have have upanayanam done and then they also had Vedas. They read Vedas.
(22:40) So, is this really true, Swami? >> Okay. You know, there is this verse which goes as follows. Purakalpetu narinam maujibandhanam ishyate. Adhyapanancha vedanam savitri vachanam tatha. Okay, this is the verse which says that purakalpetu in the previous kalpas or in the previous kalpa, narinam even women had mauji [clears throat] bandhanam.
(23:06) Usually during the upanayana samskara, there is one thing that is called mauji. It is a type of grass which is you know worn around the waist. Okay, that is called mauji. You have to wear that mauji bandhanam they say. So women used to have mauji bandhanam. Vedanam adhyapanam cha vedanam. So they used to learn vedas.
(23:26) So adhyapanam was done. Teaching was done to them. And then Savitri vachanam tatha. They could also tell the Gayatri mantra. >> Okay. >> This is one thing. And you know >> [snorts] >> we do not have the whole smriti which speaks about all these things. >> Mhm. >> It has been quoted by various acharyas in various other granthas.
(23:48) >> Okay. >> I think this is Yama Smriti, also called Yama Samhita somewhere. So this is Yama Smriti in which you find this verse. >> Okay. >> Along with this you know in any Dharmashastra text peo- peo- people speak about another Smriti which is Harita Smriti. Okay, [snorts] in that Harita Smriti two types of women have been mentioned.
(24:13) The first type is called Brahmavadinya. Brahmavadini, you can understand. >> Mhm. >> And then Sadyovadhva. Sadyovadhu. Vadhu basically is you know bride. Okay. Sadyovadhu once she is you know ready, she becomes a bride. That is she gets married. That is one type of ladies. And then the other type is Brahmavadinya.
(24:36) Those who learned vedas. >> Okay. >> Okay. So regarding them there are some rules that have been mentioned. That they could go through the upanayana samskara. They must reside in their own house and learn the vedas from their father or brother or [snorts] you know uncle etc. >> Oh. >> They must not go somewhere else.
(24:54) >> Okay. >> And for a brahmachari when someone is learning vedas and is a Brahmachari, he must uh you know beg for alms. >> Okay. >> But she need not go outside to beg for alms alms. She can you know uh reside in her house and do bhiksha and all. These have been mentioned. >> Just to clarify Swami, this is in the previous kalpa.
(25:13) >> See, these are two verses. >> Okay. >> One is from Manusmriti and this is from Harita Smriti. >> Okay. >> All the Dharmashastra granthas which deal about these Smritis these verses >> [sighs and gasps] >> have mentioned that these are Dharmas which were followed in a previous kalpa. >> Okay. >> Because in the first Smriti you find the word Purakalpi.
(25:37) >> Huh. >> Purakalpi means a previous kalpa. >> Previous kalpa. >> So there must have been a time when these were followed. But now we don't follow that. >> What is a kalpa Swami? >> See now a kalpa basically is one day of Brahma. >> Okay. >> See Brahma's one day is a kalpa. In one day of Brahma there are many many chaturyugas.
(26:02) So it's very large period of time. >> Okay. >> Long period of time. >> Okay. >> And now we are in Shvetavaraha kalpa. >> Okay. >> This kalpa is named Shvetavaraha kalpa. So when we say Purakalpa there must be another kalpa in which people must have uh you know done all this. And it could be possible that it was then that these verses were found.
(26:27) >> Okay. >> The those from the Rigveda etc. >> Okay. >> All the Dharmashastra granthas are pretty clear about this. This happened somewhere sometime before. >> Okay. In a different kalpa. >> In a different kalpa, yes. >> So that doesn't So because it happened in a different kalpa doesn't mean that it applies to today's I mean this kalpa Shvetavaraha kalpa.
(26:47) >> See each yuga has its own dharma. >> Okay. >> Like Kaliyuga dharma is different. >> Okay. >> In some Puranas you'll have this uh a chapter dedicated for Kaliyuga Varjyam. >> Okay. >> What all must be avoided in Kaliyuga. >> Okay. >> So each Yuga has its own Dharma, set of Dharmas. >> This must have been from another Kalpa.
(27:08) >> Okay. >> why the Smriti itself says Purakalpe tu naranam >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. And uh you know, this uh verse has been quoted in many places. Like in even in grammar in uh grammar you must be aware of Panini. Panini [snorts] is the one who you know uh who has written the Sutras regarding Sanskrit grammar. >> Okay.
(27:31) >> There there is a word uh which is Bahvṛcī. And others, there are some other words. See, Bahvṛcī is a word which denotes a female. >> Mhm. >> Ṛk means the the mantras of Ṛgveda. >> Okay. It has >> its own definition, Mimamsa Shastra. But again, there is a Ṛk. A woman who has uh learned many Ṛk is called a Bahvṛcī.
(27:59) >> Oh. >> So there is this word which has been mentioned in uh grammar. >> Okay. >> In that place uh you know, the commentators of Yākaraṇam they speak about this. They ask, "Since women are prohibited from learning the Vedas, how can a woman be Bahvṛcī?" >> Oh. >> So they ask this question. And they say Purakalpe tu naranam bhunjiyeran misyati.
(28:22) >> Okay. >> This is something that happened before. And some commentators don't consider this verse to be authentic. >> Okay. >> So what they do is they show another way to understand this. They say, "It doesn't exactly mean that she is the one who is uh actually learning the Vedas.
(28:44) She comes from a family or a lineage in which many Ṛk mantras are you know learned. Okay. So Bhakrichi doesn't exactly mean that she is the one who is learning all the mantras. >> Okay. >> But it is someone else in that family who does >> Swami, I asked that does each Kalpa has a different set of rules? But you told that each Yuga itself has a different set of rules.
(29:07) Just to clarify, does each Kalpa has a different set of rules? >> You know from these verses we get to know that. >> Okay. So what applies to the previous Kalpa can't be applied to this Kalpa. >> Yeah. See, even a small period of time like a Yuga has different set of sets of rules. Okay.
(29:24) So maybe each Kalpa has a different set of rule. >> Okay. Just because there's a possibility of women studying Vedas in the previous Kalpa doesn't mean that women can study Vedas in this Kalpa. >> In this Kalpa. See, we must all understand that this is a traditional view. >> Okay. >> Now you cannot just you know bring in this the modern view of time.
(29:45) >> Okay. [clears throat] >> know the Vedas were written 4,000 years ago or 3,000 years ago and you bring it it will not make sense. The traditional view is we have gone through lakhs of years. >> Okay. >> Okay. It's it has been 5,000 years since Kali has started. >> [snorts] >> And there were lakhs of years which have passed.
(30:05) >> Okay. >> So I [snorts] am speaking in the traditional view. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And Swami, some people who also asked about is there a scientific reason why women shouldn't read Vedas? >> See, I think they can listen to our video regarding science versus religion through which they will get clarity and you know so that question itself would be not very apt.
(30:32) >> Okay. >> Because if we go on searching for scientific reasons for everything, what would happen is we'll be rendering the rendering the Shastras useless. >> Okay. >> Because yes, if science can prove everything, why do we need shastras? >> Okay. >> So, that we have discussed in an elaborate manner in that video. Yeah.
(30:51) >> Yes, Swami. Okay, Swami. So, I asked whether um women added verses to the Vedas, and uh you have uh clarified that women uh rishikas, as you say, Apala, Lopamudra, they might have added some verses to the Vedas, but that doesn't give the right or that doesn't convey that women can read Vedas. >> Yeah. >> Okay, that's the first one.
(31:16) And then you said that >> That cannot be understood as a woman can read Vedas today. >> Okay. Uh that comes uh that comes clear from the second question where uh you said there are different uh rules for different kalpas, and there are different rules for even yugas. So, uh what applies in the previous kalpa can't apply in this kalpa.
(31:34) >> Yeah. >> Okay, Swami. Uh some people have also claimed that uh there are some places in shastras where uh upanayanam is allowed for women. Uh wherein shastra exactly does it say so, Swami? >> There are shastras which seem to say that there is upanayanam for uh women. >> Where, which shastra, Swami? >> Uh the Manusmriti speaks about that.
(31:56) It says "Vaivahiko vidhih strinam aupanayanikah smritah." Okay, so there is uh two pathas here. That is, there are two versions here of this shloka. But one version says that the upanayana is vivaha for women. >> Okay. >> Okay, there is this uh verse in Manusmriti, and there are many other Smriti Granthas, Grihya Sutra Granthas, where this has been mentioned.
(32:24) >> Mhm. >> So, even when it is said that uh a small upanayanam must be done, there are some verses, like we saw about Harita Smriti. There when we are speaking about the Sadyovadhus who were to be married immediately. Okay, even for them a small Upanayana ceremony has been mentioned there. >> Okay. >> But we don't know how it must be done and all.
(32:45) Okay? >> Okay. >> So, we do not have the exact method of how to do. But what we follow today, most of the Sampradayas follow today is Upanayanam is in the place of Vivaha. >> Okay. >> So, Vivaha is Upanayanam for women. >> Okay. >> So, and it is not me saying that. I have quoted the verse. Vaivahiko Vidhis Trinam Upanayanika Smritaha.
(33:07) >> Okay. >> And there are many Granthas where you can find many more citations, sources. >> Okay. Okay, Swami. So, uh keeping this all aside, you said Vedas are not for women. So, how do they gain knowledge? >> See, we have already told in the previous episode that uh women are equally eligible for liberation. >> Okay.
(33:29) >> Okay. How do they gain the knowledge required to attain liberation? That is through Itihasas, Puranas, etc. I was speaking about Mahabharatam, right? >> Yes. >> So, why was Mahabharata written? So that everyone who are eligible or not eligible to learn Vedas can uh you know, gather knowledge from Mahabharata.
(33:47) >> Okay. >> And from Mahabharata, you can know everything. Dharme Charte Cha Kame Cha Mokshe Cha Bharatarsabha Itihase Tadanyatra Yenne Hasti Natat Kwachit. >> [sighs] >> Do you want to know about Dharma or Artha or Kama or Moksha? You can know that through Mahabharata. >> Okay. >> So, there are Itihasas, Puranas and other ways through which you can learn the meanings of Vedas, the purport of Vedas.
(34:12) And also there are mentions of uh great women like Gargi, Maitreyi in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad >> [sighs] >> who have, you know, asked their husbands or others about the Brahmam, the supreme reality. >> Okay. >> Okay? They have always participated in these kind of discussions. >> Yes. >> They may not learn the Vedas directly, but they have always participated in discussions.
(34:39) They have learned Brahmam through many other ways. So, you know, they can learn through Itihasas, Puranas, and many other things. Like even if you read an English translation, you may understand that. >> Okay, but you also said that women are not supposed to read Itihasas and Puranas also. >> Yeah.
(34:59) See, again, people get triggered when we say you must not learn these that. But again, I have learned Sanskrit for more than 10 years. See, I started learning Sanskritam when I was 15 or 16, right? I have been through many Sanskrit texts. Even now, if I read something like Bhagavatam, it is very tough for me to understand. >> Okay. >> I have to go through all the commentaries to understand what the Bhagavata shloka literally means.
(35:26) >> Okay. >> For this, just the literal meaning, I need to go to the translation or the commentary. So, for most of the women who do not have the knowledge of Sanskritam, they of course have to rely on translations, right? So, you can read translations and get the knowledge of those things. And mainly, even if I read Ramayana on my own, what would I learn from that? Not much.
(35:54) We have to go to a a good Acharya, authentic Acharya, to learn the things. >> Okay. >> So, finally, we have to go to a go to a qualified Acharya, learn things, okay? And that will be through learning Itihasas, Puranas. We have so many Granthas written by our Acharyas. Like in Sri Vaishnava Sampradayam, we have so many Granthas, Mumukshuppadi, Srivachana Bhushanam, so many.
(36:19) So, we don't have enough time to even read all those things, right? So, it is through them that even people who are eligible to learn Vedas, actually gain knowledge. >> Okay. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So, you have told that everybody is eligible for liberation. And knowledge is a way for liberation also. And here you have told that women they can gain knowledge through Itihasas, Puranas, different Sri Vaishnava granthas in our sampradaya.
(36:51) So, why do men need to learn Vedas then? They can also do the same that women do, right? >> Yeah. Very good question here. A valid question, actually. See, why do men who are eligible to learn Vedas learn Vedas? The shastras themselves say, it is his duty to learn Vedas. >> Okay. >> When a brahmana doesn't learn Vedas, he incurs sin.
(37:22) >> Okay. >> So, his duty is to protect, preserve, and preach the Vedas. >> Okay. >> So, when he doesn't do his duty, he incurs a sin. >> Okay. >> So, a person who learns the Vedas is learning the Vedas just to save himself from a sin. >> Okay. >> Okay. And if he goes on to learn the meanings of the Vedas, maybe he'll attain more results as well.
(37:48) >> Okay. >> And also he has to do some nitya karmas. >> Okay. >> Again, those nitya karmas like sandhyavandanam etc. they don't have some great result. >> Okay. >> If a brahmana doesn't do sandhyavandanam, he'll incur sin again. >> Okay. >> So, for him to do sandhyavandanam, he must know how to do sandhyavandanam.
(38:05) For that, he has to learn something, right? >> Okay. >> So, similarly, there are many nitya karmas. To perform them, you need to have some knowledge of Vedas. >> Okay. >> So, these all are nitya karmas for a brahmana. >> Okay. >> So, if he doesn't perform them, he'll incur a sin. That's all. >> Okay. >> That is a main thing.
(38:25) And when we speak about a learning Vedas, I think I have to clarify this thing. >> Mhm. >> See, when we say we learn Vedas, there is a there is a very long process that happens. Usually when a Brahmin starts learning Vedas, his upanayanam happens when he's 7 years old, usually. It could be uh delayed sometimes. And sometimes, you know, it could be done even earlier.
(38:48) Once he has gone through his upanayanam samskara, he goes to do Veda adhyayanam. Veda adhyayanam is basically memorizing Vedas. >> Okay. >> Okay? We must memorize Vedas, okay? And most of the people who do Veda adhyayanam stop with memorizing those Vedas, that's all. >> Okay. >> They don't get into understanding the Vedas, most of them.
(39:12) Because I have studied with many people who have learned Vedas, you know, I was also uh part of a gurukulam, right? So, most of them they don't get into the meanings of the Vedas. Okay? Now, let me give you an example. It was during the time of Parashara Bhattar. You know, he's a disciple of Ramanujacharya. He was conducting a kalakshepam, that was he was teaching his disciples.
(39:37) And when this was going on, a seemingly learned person came to his goshti, him came to his kalakshepam. This person had learned many shastras, many Vedas, etc. When he came to that goshti, Parashara Bhattar honored him and let him go. And then, a person who hadn't learned much, he had just learned some Divya Prabandhas, etc.
(40:04) , he came to that goshti. Parashara Bhattar immediately welcomed him, honored him so much, you know? The disciples got confused. >> Okay. >> They saw that the seemingly learned person was honored less, and this person was excessively honored. >> Mhm. They posed the question in front [clears throat] of the Acharya. Parashara Bhattar says, uh you know, have some patience.
(40:28) I'll show you what the reality is. You know, one day that learned person came to this ghosti. Parashara Bhattar asked him, you what is the truth? What is the reality? Who is the supreme being etc. He said I have gone through many shastras and all. But you know, it's very confusing. I cannot be sure about things, he said.
(40:48) And when the same question was posed to that other person, he said, why do you even ask this? For me Narayana is the supreme being. Surrendering onto him is the ultimate thing to do. So, Parashara Bhattar showcased the difference between both of them. >> Okay. >> One had learned a lot, but he wasn't sure about anything.
(41:13) This person, [snorts] he didn't learn much, but he had a clarity. >> Okay. >> Okay. For a Sri Vaishnava, that is the clarity which is needed, right? So, Parashara Bhattar actually honored this person more. >> Okay. >> So, what do we get from this? It is not just a learning Vedas that brings us respect or that brings us liberation.
(41:35) It is the understanding of Vedas that brings us liberation. >> Okay. >> And understanding the purport of Vedas necessarily doesn't need the adhyayana of Vedas. >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay? >> Yes. >> Because the purport of Vedas can be understood through itihasas, puranas and our acharyas. >> Okay. You mean the essence of Vedas? >> Essence of Vedas, yes.
(41:57) >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, understanding the essence of Vedas is more important than me just a reciting the Vedas. >> Okay. >> So, you'll find many upanyasakas, lectures, you know, kathavachakas etc. who haven't learned the Vedas, but people follow them. They must have not memorized the Vedas, but people follow them because they know the essence of the Vedas. Okay.
(42:20) So, that is more important than Vedas themselves. >> Okay. >> So, when someone asked, "Why are these people actually learning Vedas?" They are not learning Vedas or not everyone is learning Vedas to go to liberation. >> Okay. >> Since he was born in a varna, he is required to do that adhyayanam. >> Else he incurs a sin.
(42:40) >> Yeah. >> So, men of some varnas are required by shastras to learn the Vedas, else they incur a sin. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, is there a part in shastras where it says that men can't read certain things, Swami? Like women aren't supposed to read Vedas, such that is there something for men? >> Okay. Okay, I'll tell this.
(43:00) You know, many people think that a brahmana or men can, you know, try Vedic men can read any Veda they want. It's not so. There are many rules attached to this. >> Okay. >> For example, I am a person who [snorts] comes in a lineage of Sama Veda adhyayis. >> Mhm. >> So, we are basically Sama Vedis. >> Mhm. >> So, if I have to start learning Vedas, I must start only with Sama Veda.
(43:26) >> Okay. >> I cannot go and start learning Yajur Veda. >> Okay. >> I just cannot go and learn Rig Veda. I just can't go and learn Atharva Veda. >> Okay. >> So, they are all prohibited for me in the beginning. Once I start learning the Sama Veda and I finish my Sama Veda, only then can I go to another Veda. >> Okay.
(43:46) >> And again, there is another rule I'll I'll tell about. In Sama Veda, there are three shakhas that are available today. >> Okay. >> Sama Veda has three shakhas again. >> Okay. >> I belong to particular shakha. >> Okay. >> That is called the Kauthuma shakha. >> Okay. >> There are other shakhas, Jaiminiya shakha, Ranayaniya shakha.
(44:04) >> Okay. >> Now, I am supposed to learn only my shakha of Sama Veda. >> So, you're not supposed to learn the other two. >> Other two. So, when I start learning Vedas, I have to learn Kauthuma shakha of Sama Veda. >> Okay. >> After learning my shakha, now I can go to another Veda. >> Okay. >> Like I can start learning Rig Veda.
(44:24) >> Okay. >> But there are some verses which say that I can go to another Veda. I can learn three Vedas. But first I have to start with Sama Veda and then move on to other Vedas. But I can never learn another shakha of my own Sama Veda. >> Okay. >> So, I can't go and learn Jaiminiya shakha ever. >> Okay. >> People also say that I will incur a dosha called a shakhatana dosha.
(44:52) >> If you read the other two shakhas. >> Other shakhas. >> Okay. >> So, there are some things that have been prohibited for me. >> Okay. >> And for a period of time, I can't read Yajur Veda. >> Okay. >> read Rig Veda until I have finished my portion of >> Okay. >> Vedas. >> Which is very vast. >> Which itself takes many years.
(45:09) >> Okay. >> Six years, seven years, eight years. Okay? Only after that can I move on to another Veda. >> Okay. >> So, it is not like I can start reading anything I want. >> Okay. >> Everything has its rules. >> Okay. >> So, when people think that oh, they can do everything, life [clears throat] is so easy for them. It's not so.
(45:27) Everyone has their own rules that they have to follow. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. So, coming to a conclusion for me, women are not supposed to learn Vedas. >> Mhm. Uh but is there any part in Vedas that women can say? >> Yeah. See, there are specific rituals in which women are allowed to utter some verses. >> In specific rituals.
(45:47) >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. Uh let me give an example. In Mimamsa shastra, uh there are some adhikarana which deal with uh the eligibility of women. >> Okay. >> So, when you know, assume that a person is performing a Yaga for going to heaven. >> Okay. >> Okay? Now, when he's performing a Yaga, is he only eligible for Swarga or his wife also? >> Okay.
(46:16) >> Both of them are eligible. So, this is Sahakartrutvam. Both of them together perform the Yaga. >> Okay. >> And the result will also be experienced by both of them together. >> Okay. >> Some people even say in those Adhikaranas that if one person, you know, leaves this body and goes to heaven first, he'll be waiting there >> Okay.
(46:40) [snorts] >> till his wife comes. So, you know, if the wife goes first, she'll be waiting for the husband to come. >> Okay. >> So, they perform uh together and they uh attain the result together. >> Okay. >> So, see, even if that uh a woman hasn't specifically learned all the Vedas, she can attain the same result as her husband.
(47:03) >> Okay. >> Because finally, they are together. >> Okay. >> Whatever he gets, she also gets. Okay? And in these kind of rituals, there are some specific rituals such as Aajya Vekshanam. >> Uh-huh. >> The Yajamana and the Patni, the one who is doing the ritual and his wife, both are required to look at ghee.
(47:25) And while they are looking at that ghee, they must tell a mantra. >> Mhm. >> So, this Patni is also this wife is also required to tell that mantra. She has to learn that mantra to tell that mantra, right? >> Yes. >> So, for these specific mantras, she is allowed to learn those mantras. >> Okay. >> This has been, you know, uh told in the Mimamsa Shastra.
(47:44) >> Okay. Okay. >> She's allowed to learn these parts. >> So, she's allowed to learn certain mantras for certain rituals. >> Yeah. Again, this person, Brahmana, he's also learning his part of Vedas so that he can do his rituals well. >> Okay. Thank you, and Swami. Another question here. Um Uh there are some people who say that in north northern India, uh they have seen women going and getting Upanayanam Samskara and reading Vedas.
(48:14) So, can anyone go and do it, Swami? >> In the end, it is up to them. Bhagwan has given free will to everyone. >> Okay. >> They can do whatever they want. What we are trying to tell is our acharyas have had this opinion. >> Okay. >> Who want to follow, they will follow. That's all, okay? Now, we must understand one thing here. Many people think that Upanayanam is common for everyone.
(48:35) Vedadhyanam is common for everyone. No. See, I come in a lineage, okay? We follow Sama Veda, I said. >> Yes. >> And we have a particular Grihya Sutra. >> Okay. >> Which tells us what rituals I need to follow. How I should follow. My Grihya Sutra is Drahyayana Grihya Sutra. >> Mhm. >> Okay? I have to follow rituals according to that Grihya Sutra.
(49:03) So, since I'm a Brahmin, it doesn't mean all Brahmins have the same thing. No. >> So, does another person with Yajur Veda has They are Do they have a different Grihya Sutra? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Like, you know, many most of the people who are follow who are Yajur Vedis, they follow Apastamba Grihya Sutra or Bodhayana Grihya Sutra.
(49:24) >> Okay. >> That is also decided by their lineage. >> Okay. What is Grihya Sutra, Swami? >> Uh it is basically a text which specifically speaks about what rituals you need to do. >> Okay. [snorts] >> Okay? Um like, you know, be it a Sandhyavandanam, be it a Shraddham, [snorts] etc. everything. >> Okay. So, it's a very basic thing.
(49:43) >> Mhm. Yes. >> Okay. >> But, it differs. >> Okay. >> A Sama Vedi's Sandhyavandanam is completely different from a Yajur Vedi's Sandhyavandanam. >> Okay. there >> will be some commonalities, but the mantras are different. >> Okay. >> Same with Rigvedi. >> Okay. >> And even in an Upanayanam, we think Upanayanam is common for everyone, no? >> Okay.
(50:04) >> For me, I will follow Drahyayana Grihya Sutra in my Upanayanam ceremony. >> Okay. >> So, you'll find that when a Samavedi gets Upanayanam done, they shave their whole head. >> Huh. >> Mundanam. >> Yes. >> Only for that time. >> Okay. >> In the In the Upanayanam, they have have their whole head shaved. >> Okay.
(50:23) >> That is for a Samavedi. But for an Yajurvedi, it's different. They need not have their whole head shaved. >> Okay. >> So, these are things that differ. So, I could be a Vaishnava, I could be a Brahmana, but I need to follow Grihya Sutras for these rituals. >> Okay. >> So, if I need to get Upanayanam done, it must be according to my Grihya Sutra.
(50:44) I can't just go somewhere and take Upanayanam Upanayanam. >> So, and there are some exceptions for these uh rules, okay? >> Okay. >> But what I want to uh tell is it is not as uh simple as people uh take it to be. >> Okay. So, you even men have different uh subsets of rules uh beneath their uh Vedadhyanam. >> Uh and other rituals also.
(51:11) >> Okay. >> For example, usually a Vivaha a Vaidika Vivaha takes place for four or five days. When our marriage was performed, Vivaha was performed, it took place for >> four days. >> four days. But for Yajurvedi, so many of our friends have had, you know, >> Yes. >> for them it is for five days. >> Okay. >> Okay.
(51:33) So, [snorts] that itself changes. >> Okay. >> There are many things that change in every ritual. >> Okay. >> So, when someone wants to get Upanayanam done, or when someone wants to start learn learning Vedas, [snorts] they must know in which lineage they come. >> So, each has their own Veda and their own Shakha and their own Grihya Sutra to follow.
(51:53) >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, it is not just Vedas. It is just so for every household for Okay. >> And then, you know, even in the ceremonies such as Upanayanam, Vivaha, etc., there are some household customs and rituals that come into picture. >> Oh, yes, of course. Yes. >> So, there is so much to this.
(52:13) >> Okay. >> Okay? And again, my only contention is why are you learning Vedas? >> Okay. >> Only to satisfy your ego or are you wanting to achieve something from that? >> Okay. >> So, when we are talking representing a Sampradaya, we want everyone to attain liberation. >> Okay. >> Okay? That is our view. For you to attain liberation, learning the Vedas themselves or memorizing them has not a very big role.
(52:43) >> Okay. >> Okay? It is important to understand the essence of the Vedas. >> Okay. >> That is why in Sri Vaishnava Sampradaya, we have Rahasya Trayam, which is given to one and all, >> Mhm. >> which has the essence of all the Vedas. >> Okay. >> That is Veda Saram for us, right? >> Okay, yes. >> So, finally, if your intention is only to learn Vedas, that is your wish.
(53:05) Okay? But as a Sampradaya, we [snorts] always recommend people to go for the ultimate goal, that is liberation. And you must look at what you need to do to attain that, okay? Yeah. >> A question for me. So, you have quoted many references from and particularly, you have mentioned each and every reference where it is from and everything and people can go and see them, of course.
(53:31) So, those references say that women don't read Vedas, don't have Upanayanam, etc. And you said that men have a men are read Vedas because they incur a sin if they don't. That's why they are called Dwijas. Uh just a question here is for me. I don't know. It's just just a scenario. What would you do if you happen to come up upon some woman who is reading Vedas? What would your reaction be, Swami? >> Indifference.
(53:58) >> Okay. >> Like, you know, people think that we will pounce upon someone and, you know, stop them. Mostly, our [snorts] shastras teach us to be indifferent regarding most of the things. Like, we are here representing our acharyas. That's all. >> Okay. >> We are here to uh you know, propagate to the world what our acharyas felt.
(54:19) Okay? And we are here to give the world the essence of the Vedas. That's all. If someone wants to do something they want, they'll do that. Again, even shastras, what they do is they say you don't do this, if you do this, this happens. That's all. Okay? We'll also take the same stand, right? >> Okay, yes. >> We are here to tell things.
(54:40) It is up to you to follow it or not. >> Because of free will. >> It is free will. Yes, my acharya often says even Bhagwan has given us free will. >> Yes, yes. >> He lets us do whatever we want, right? >> Yes. >> We have seen that in, you know, the video regarding law of karma. >> Yes. >> Similarly, we too need to allow them.
(55:00) And, you know, me personally, all right? Sometimes, some people complain about me that I don't force them enough. >> Yes. >> [laughter] >> Okay. >> Yes. >> So, I personally, I don't force anyone to do anything. But, it doesn't mean that we should not even stand up for ourselves. Okay? There are many people who say that in Hinduism, you can do whatever you want.
(55:23) You can still be a Hindu. And sometimes, I feel that we have to stand up and say no. There are rules even for a Hindu. There are shastras which tell us to do what we need to do and what we do ought not to do. >> Okay. >> So, sometimes we had we have to represent them, right? It is not like you being a Hindu can do whatever you want. It's not so.
(55:45) Because there is a a large number of Shastras which are trying to tell you, you know, guide you through the right path. >> Okay. >> So, we represent them mostly in difference, you know. >> Okay. >> I'll be indifferent towards them, yeah. >> Okay. So, you're meaning to say that uh people can do what they want to do.
(56:05) >> Mhm. >> You have just told what the Shastras are telling. According to our Sri Vaishnava Sampradaya, >> Mhm. >> you have told what are the set of rules or the instruction books or an instruction book that we need to follow. So, you have just laid it out there. It is for them to take it or not to take it.
(56:20) You're not forcing anybody, right, anyway. >> Okay. >> Yes, yes, of course. And you know, uh when you were asking that question regarding people uh performing Upanayana for women and all, our answer, I you know, I was answering that, you know, I got diverted. You know, usually our attitude towards them would be indifference, okay? And again, uh the questions that arise when someone does that is what is the purpose of doing that? That is one thing.
(56:47) Another thing is what Grihya Sutra or Smriti do you follow while performing that? Because each family has its own tradition >> [clears throat] >> which has to be followed. Okay? So, I cannot suddenly go and have a have start learn Rigveda, right? >> Yes. >> So, someone uh without any prior knowledge about their tradition and all cannot start learning Vedas as they are.
(57:11) >> Okay. >> So, it leads to a lot of complications. >> Okay. >> So, better to uh you know, learn the essence of the Vedas and you know, go towards the main purpose that is liberation. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, Swami, when we say that women are ineligible to do certain Karmas or uh learn Vedas, etc., uh are they uh are they considered sinful or are they considered inferior than men? >> Everything that we have today we experience today is a result of our karma.
(57:41) >> Okay. >> Okay? The eligibilities, ineligibilities, other things, and all. What we do today is in our hands. We have that free will to decide. Okay, this must be understood. Basically, telling that all women are sinful because they don't have eligibility to learn Vedas wouldn't be right. >> Okay. >> I will I will explain to you.
(58:01) Is that particular ineligibility a result of a sin or a punya? Let me explain. You know, do you know the [snorts] story of King Parikshit? >> Yes. >> He was actually cursed that he would be, uh, you know, bitten by a snake in 7 days' time. So, now he went into this situation due to a sin. >> Okay. >> Okay? Due to some, uh, misdeed that he did.
(58:32) But, he used that 7 days to listen to Srimad Bhagavatam, and he straightaway went to liberation. Now, that sin which resulted in that situation, is that really a sin? >> Considering everything, I wouldn't say so. >> So, in hindsight, he used that for his benefit. >> Yes. >> So, that sin actually benefited him. >> Yes.
(58:57) >> Okay, so, just telling that I am ineli- ineligible today, that's why, you know, I have no other opportunity or I am sinful, that is not the way to think about it, nor should I think about a woman like that, nor should a woman think about herself like that. >> Yes. >> We have been given enough opportunities to attain liberation.
(59:19) [snorts] >> Okay. >> Bhagavan has always given everyone the opportunity to attain liberation. No one is deprived of that opportunity. >> Okay. >> So, the greatest result, that is liberation is open to one and all. >> Okay. >> So, we must utilize the situation that we are in to make ourself ready for liberation. >> Okay.
(59:42) So, you're saying that instead of finding backtracking where how we got that sin or how sinful we are, you're telling to make best use of the opportunity we have now in hand. >> Yeah. And one more thing, every birth that we take is a result of a combination of sins and punya. That is papa and punya. No person is completely sinful or no person is completely, you know, >> pure.
(1:00:07) >> pure, okay. Punyaful, okay. So, everyone, if I have taken this birth, it is due to a combination of punya and papa. That is why I sometimes suffer. I also sometimes get to be happy. >> So, being born as a man or as a woman doesn't define your sins. >> In in some shastras it is said that if a man leaves his wife, who is a very good person without any reason, he would take seven births as a woman who would be left by her husband.
(1:00:45) >> Okay. So, he would go through what he put his wife through. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And seven times that. >> Seven times that, okay. >> And going by this, in similar fashion, uh and in similar fashion you can say, if a woman does that, maybe she'll go through seven births >> uh as a man. >> So, it is not a man or a woman who has sinned, but it is but it is a jivatma who has sinned.
(1:01:12) >> Okay. >> So, considering women as sinful or men as sinful or someone else as sinful is not right. In Sanatana Dharma, we must understand that it is the jivatma who is going through many births. >> Okay. So, people make the mistake of attributing gender to jivatma, and they get offended sometimes. Yes. >> So, it is the duty of everyone to try to attain liberation.
(1:01:38) Everyone has the eligibility for that. Everyone. No one is deprived of that uh opportunity. So, we must all look at that, and for you, for me, for any person, finally, it is sharanagati, surrender onto Bhagwan's holy feet, that is going to give us liberation. That is what makes us a Sri Vaishnavas. >> Okay. >> And when people ask, "Can women learn Vedas?" Yes, of course, they can learn some Vedas, the Dravida Vedas.
(1:02:14) The Nalayira Divya Prabandham Pasurams, which are called Dravida Vedas, they can be learned by everyone. Finally, a Vaishnava becomes a Vaishnava when he learns >> Divya Prabandham. >> Divya Prabandhams. A great Acharya called Arulmigu Manavala Mamunigal, he says, "Yes, a Vaishnava becomes a Vaishnava when he learns the Divya Prabandham Pasurams of Nammalvar, and Nammalvar was not a Traivarnika.
(1:02:40) It is by learning his Pasurams that we become a real Vaishnava. >> Okay. >> So, finally, every Vaishnava is expected to learn Divya Prabandhams. That is when he becomes a Vaishnava. Vaishnava Tattva Siddhi is achieved only then. So, we must all look at things that really matter. And we must strive towards them, and you know, if your only goal is to learn the Vedas, you are you have not come to the right place.
(1:03:14) If your goal is to attain the supreme goal. Then our sampradaya our traditions can show you what you need to do. >> Okay. >> So finally it must not be I need to learn Vedas. I want to satisfy my ego or something else. That is not what our traditions stand for. We are here to attain liberation and that can be achieved not just by learning Vedas but again by understanding the essence of Vedas and surrendering to the holy feet of the Lord.
(1:03:47) >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Swami you've clarified a majority of our doubts here. Almost everything. But sorry for asking more questions here. Some people claim that Islamic invasion has something to do with the strictness of the rules and that rules have been more stricter after the Islamic invasions have happened.
(1:04:04) What is your take on that Swami? >> See there are many things that have changed after the invasions from the foreigners. Be it the Islamic invasions or you know the Britishers rule over India. It has affected a large part of our customs, rituals etc. >> Okay. >> But regarding this Vedadhyayanam maybe it has not affected as much.
(1:04:27) >> Okay. >> Maybe it has affected other learning processes etc. But regarding Vedadhyayanam we have you know Granthas such as Shankara Bhashya and even you know ancient texts which have which all have the same opinion regarding this. >> Okay. >> So maybe this particular issue cannot be completely attributed to the invasions.
(1:04:54) >> Okay. So you're saying that there might have been some changes here and there but the foundation has never changed. >> Regarding women doing Vedadhyayanam >> Okay. Yeah yeah the same. >> There are many other things that have changed. >> Changed of course. So we are coming to the end of our video Swami and it was very extremely it was really extremely helpful knowing all of these details for me.
(1:05:16) I hope it has helped the people that have asked these questions. And I'm hoping to see you in another video Swami where we address a different group of questions Swami. So I think this is for today's Swami. Very happy to have you with us. Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan. >> Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan. Thanks for watching this video. We at Bhaktamrutam are committed to deliver the best quality content regarding Sanatana Dharma and Sri Vaishnava Sampradaya.
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(1:06:03) Thank you.
Author Name:Bhakthamrutham
Youtube Channel Url:https://www.youtube.com/@Bhakthamrutham
Youtube Video URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k_M_QIomFo
Title: Women and Vedas - What Do The Shastras Say!? | Stree Dharma Q&A |
Author Name: Bhakthamrutham
Description: What do the Shastras say about women's eligibility to study the Vedas? In this episode of Svairalapam, Paravastu Varadarajan examines the scriptural sources concerning women's Vedic adhikara, women Rishis, Upanayanam, and the traditional understanding of Vedic study.
The discussion also explores how women attain spiritual knowledge, the distinction between Vedic eligibility and moksha, and whether historical invasions have influenced prevailing understandings.
Chapters -
00:00 Introduction
2:00 What Are the Shastras?
8:15 Who Can Interpret the Shastras?
12:30 Shastric References on Women's Vedic Eligibility
18:10 Women Rishis and Seers
31:35 Upanayanam for Women
33:15 How Do Women Gain Spiritual Knowledge?
36:45 Why Do Men Study the Vedas?
42:45 Restrictions on Men's Vedic Study
45:35 Which Parts of the Vedas Can Women Study?
57:30 Are Women Sinful or Inferior?
1:01:30 An Important Message
1:03:55 Have Invasions Influenced This?
1:05:05 Outro
#WomenAndVedas #SriVaishnavism #Shastras #Svairalapam#StreeDharma #SanatanaDharma #Dharma #HinduDharma #Shastras #Hinduism #Svairalapam #WomenInSanatanaDharma
Transcript:
(00:00) You said Vedas are not for women. So, how do they gain knowledge? [music] >> Can women learn Vedas? Yes, of course, they can learn some Vedas, the Dravida Vedas. >> Why do men need to learn Vedas then? They can also do the same that women do, right? [music] >> Yeah. When a brahmana doesn't learn Vedas, he incurs sin.
(00:22) >> A part of the comment sections has asked for shastric reference, Swami. [music] >> You have all these shastras, and then you have this tradition of acharyas through whom you understand what you need to perform, and also you understand how to interpret those shastras. >> Is there a part in [music] shastras where it says that men can't read certain things, Swami? Like women are not supposed to read Vedas such that is there something for men? >> So, we are basically Sama Vedis.
(00:49) So, if I have to start learning Vedas, I must start only with Sama Veda. >> Okay. >> I cannot go and start learning Yajur Veda. >> So, people [music] make the mistake of attributing gender to jivatma, and they get offended sometimes. Welcome to Swaida Lapam. We had done a video titled Sthree Dharmam.
(01:22) And we received a lot of comments under it, and we grouped the comments into different sections. Uh majority of it was asking about women and Vedas. So, today we are going to talk about that, and get more clarity on that issue. We welcome our Swami >> Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan. >> Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan. >> Swami, as you heard, we are going to talk about women and Vedas.
(01:42) >> Okay. >> As I said, Swami, we have received a lot of comments in the video, and we have divided the comment section into different groups. So, we are going to be answering one part of that today. As I said, women and Vedas, and we are going to answer as much as possible in this video and give clarity regarding this issue, Swami. Yeah, sure.
(02:03) In our previous video, you had said that Shastras prohibit women from learning or reading Vedas. So, a part of the comment sections has asked for Shastric reference, Swami. So, before we go into that, I just want to ask you again, what are Shastras? >> See, in the previous video, I had told that Shastras prohibit women from learning Vedas.
(02:27) >> [sighs] >> So, I usually do not quote the verses because sometimes when we start quoting, it is from this chapter or this adhyaya, this shloka and all, it becomes slightly tough for the people to grasp. So, I avoid quoting. But since people have asked, let's try to explain that. But before getting into that, I think your question was regarding uh what Shastras are, right? So, when we use the word Shastras, what does that mean? Basically, the word Shastra is derived from a particular root word in Samskritam.
(03:04) And uh people say, "Shasanat Shastram." That which orders us to do is Shastram. It tells us what to do and what not to do. That is Shastram. Again, even in Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says, "Tasmac Shastram Pramanam Te Karya Akarya Vyavasthito. Nyatva Shastra Vidhanoktam Karma Kartum Iharhasi." You can only know what to do and what not to do through the Shastras.
(03:37) So, you must understand what Shastras are saying and then act accordingly. So, Shastras are the basis for our understanding of what to do and what not to do. Again, what exactly do we mean when we use the word shastras? See, shastras is a word that can denote the corpus of a large number of texts. It starts from Vedas.
(04:04) And then you have a Smritis. Then you have Itihasas. You have Puranas. You have Agamas. You have Grihya Sutras, Kalpa Sutras, etc. Sometimes you can even bring in shastras such as Mimamsa Shastra. And all these together are called shastras. Okay? So, when we say shastra, it is not just Veda. Of course, Veda is the most important one among all shastras.
(04:35) But it is not just Vedas, but there are so many more. Okay. So, the first one, Vedas, which is also called a Shruti. Upanishads are also part of Vedas. They are called a Vedanta or Upanishad. Okay? So, among Veda, you have uh Upanishads and the remaining part. And then you have Smriti Granthas. Like you must have heard about Manusmriti, Parashara Smriti, and there are many more.
(05:09) These are called Smriti Granthas and also sometimes referred to as Dharma Shastras. Okay? Then you have the famous Itihasas, Ramayana, Mahabharata. And And then you have a Puranas. The 18 main Puranas. And then Then there are many more Puranas. You have Agamas such as Pancharatra Agama, Vaikhanasa Agama. These all form what we call shastras.
(05:33) Other than that, you know, I was speaking about Mimamsa Shastra. Uh there is Nyaya Shastra and all, which also can be counted as a shastra sometimes. You [sighs] also have uh you know, uh many sutras such as Grihya Sutras, Kalpa Sutras, etc. which help you understand. There are Veda Angas. So, there are so many texts which can be included in this big corpus of texts called Shastras.
(06:04) >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, for a person to understand what he needs to do or what he must not do, >> [snorts] >> he must go through all these things. >> Okay. >> But, is it possible for a normal human being like us to go through all these things? >> No. >> It will take ages, many janmas. So, what we do is we follow a tradition where we have great Acharyas who have gone through all these things and come to conclusions and given us the things that we must do and the knowledge we must gain.
(06:44) Okay. So, you have all these Shastras and then you have this tradition of Acharyas through whom you understand what you need to perform and also you understand how to interpret those Shastras. >> Okay. In the previous video and even now, Swami, you're telling interpreting Shastras.
(07:05) So, how does one interpret a Shastra? >> See, if you take Upanishads, Upanishads have been interpreted differently by Shankaracharya, differently by Ramanujacharya, >> Okay. >> differently by Madhvacharya. And then you have many more interpretations, okay? >> Okay. >> But, as a Vaishnava, I follow the interpretation of Ramanujacharya. >> Okay.
(07:26) >> An Advaitin would follow the interpretation of Shankaracharya. >> Okay. >> A Madhva would follow Madhvacharya. >> Okay. >> Someone else would follow his Acharya. >> Okay. >> So, when I speak about Shastras, I am speaking about Shastras and also the interpretation that has been given by my acharyas. >> Okay. >> Okay.
(07:48) So, it is important to understand what shastras are and how to interpret them. >> So, you're telling that uh we are following the Ramanujacharya's interpretation of shastras in our >> Yeah. See, there are many points which are common for all these acharyas. >> Okay. >> And there are points where they differ. >> Okay. >> So, there will be many commonalities among us and also some differences.
(08:09) >> Okay. >> Not that every sentence would be uh interpreted differently by every acharya. That's not the case. >> Uh is it possible that I can have an interpretation of my own with my knowledge? >> See, the shastras are there to be interpreted. It's okay if you interpret shastras as you wish. But one thing to be considered here is are you eligible enough to interpret all the shastras? >> Okay.
(08:35) >> Because you must be knowing shrutis, you must be knowing smritis, you must be knowing itihasas, puranas. You must have learned the mimamsa shastra. That itself is such a big shastra. >> What is mimamsa shastra, Swami? >> I had already used that word mimamsa shastra. Mimamsa shastra is basically the shastra which deals with the interpretation of vedavakyas, Vedic sentences.
(08:58) >> Okay. >> So, uh if you want to understand how Vedic sentences uh explain something, you have to go through the mimamsa shastra which has been written by a great rishi called Jaimini. >> Okay. >> He has given us the rules through which we must interpret shastras. >> So, you're telling that shastras can be interpreted through mimamsa shastra only.
(09:24) >> Yeah. So, Jaimini Maharishi has given us the rules. Every rule is argued, debated about, and then a rule is formulated >> Okay. >> regarding how to interpret a type of vedavakya. >> Okay. I I understand this, Swami, but uh is it possible for you to give me a small example? So, since you are asking for an example, I'll try to give an example.
(09:47) The first thing that crosses my mind, that comes into my mind, is uh this uh thing where you know, a sentence is uh examined. The sentence is Pashu Malabheta. See, there is a sacrifice of a Pashu. Now, if you use the word Pashu, what do you think what what Pashu is? >> Cow. >> Yeah, usually in our area, we consider Pashu as cow. But, in Samskritam, Pashu doesn't mean a cow.
(10:22) The word Pashu can mean cow, but not exactly cow. Pashu is a word that can denote any animal which has, you know, a hairy tail. >> Okay. >> Okay? So, here, the word Pashu doesn't mean a cow. >> Okay. >> But, actually, it could mean many things. It could be a horse, it could be a cow, it could be a goat, it could be anything else.
(10:44) >> Okay. >> So, how do I get to know what exactly it is? So, there is this Mimamsa Sutram, which speaks about Chago Vamantra Varnat. So, here, the word Pashu denotes a Chaga, a type of goat, >> Okay. >> which must be sacrificed in a particular ritual. >> Okay. >> Okay? So, if you take that sentence without the context, you won't be able to understand the meaning of the word Pashu.
(11:09) >> Okay. >> Mimamsa Shastra comes in, it tells you how to interpret those words. >> Okay. >> So, you you must uh examine the whole context. If you have some other sentence which seems to uh help you understand this. And so, there are many rules of interpretation. Basically, there are 1,000 Adhikaranas. >> Oh. >> In every Adhikarana, a A of interpretation is uh you know, given to us by Jaimini.
(11:34) >> Okay. >> Jaimini has written the Purva Mimamsa Sutras. >> Okay. Okay, so >> there is a Shastra which is there for you to understand the rules of interpretation. >> Okay. >> Anyone who just has some knowledge of Sanskrit cannot start interpreting Shastras on their own on their own. >> Okay. >> There is a lot of things that must be learned before you even think about interpreting Shastras.
(12:00) >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay, Swamiji. To So, to summarize it all uh Shastras are Vedas, Itihasas, Puranas, Smritis uh etc. And interpreting Shastra cannot be done just by a uh meager knowledge of uh language. >> Language, yeah. >> So, it has to be done through uh >> a rigorous process of Mimamsa. >> Okay. So, So, that is what I have understood from this uh part.
(12:31) So, moving on to the next and the main part of the video, you women are not supposed to learn or read Vedas. So, where is the reference for this, Swamiji? >> Um see we are just here to represent the standpoint, represent the views of our Purva Acharyas. >> Okay. >> Okay? In this particular matter I think we are representing most of the Acharyas who are hailed in Sanatana Dharma.
(12:57) >> Okay. >> Meet Shankaracharya, Ramanujacharya, anyone else. Okay? So, if you examine Shastras, you'll find many Acharyas in many texts speaking about a woman not having the Adhikara, the eligibility to learn Vedas. That you can find everywhere. But if we really search the sources for those sentences, sources for them telling so there are some things that I would like to tell here.
(13:29) First thing, there is an Upanishad which is called Nrisimha Tapaniya Upanishad. In that particular Upanishad, you will find a verse which speaks about a woman not being eligible to learn Vedas. >> Okay. >> I think, you know, our audience, they can go through Nrisimha Tapaniya Upanishad.
(13:49) I think, you know, everything is available on the net now. So, explicitly Nrisimha Tapaniya Upanishad says that a woman do not have the eligibility of learning the Vedas. That is one thing. This has been quoted by other acharyas in other texts also. And then you have this famous verse in Srimad Bhagavatam. >> Okay. [snorts] >> Bhagavatam, it is, you know, a very famous text that is authentic for many sampradayas all around India.
(14:18) In Bhagavatam, in the first skandha, fourth chapter, there is this 25th shloka. Okay. It says, it speaks about the reason why Veda Vyasa wrote the Mahabharata. >> Mhm. >> It says, "Stri shudra dvija bandhunam trayi na shruti gochara." It speaks about the reason uh for the creation of Mahabharata.
(14:41) It says, "There are some people who are not eligible to uh learn things from the Vedas. For them, they cannot listen to Vedas and, you know, uh learn the meanings of Vedas by themselves." Thinking about this, Veda Vyasa wrote Mahabharata >> Okay. >> so that people can gain the Vedic knowledge from Mahabharata itself and attain what they want to attain.
(15:05) >> Okay. >> Okay. So, it clearly states that "Trayi na shruti gochara." The word trayi means the Vedas. Okay. There are many names for the Vedas, Amnayaha, Shrutihi, Trayi, Chandaha, etc. "Trayi na shruti gochara." Uh you know, they must not listen to Vedas. This has been clearly mentioned in Bhagavatam.
(15:27) And you can go through the various commentaries written by various acharyas. Most of them have this opinion. >> Okay. >> There is no doubt in that. So, this is one thing. And also, many of our acharyas uh, you know, explain this in the following manner. In the Vedas, the upanayana ceremony has been prescribed for the traivarnikas. The three varnas.
(15:52) The verse goes on like this. Ashtavarsham Brahmanam Upanayita. Ekadasha Varsham Rajanyam. Dwadasha Varsham Vaishyam. So, basically it says that a brahmana must go through his upanayana ceremony when he is 8 years old. The 8 years here is counted from pregnancy itself. >> Okay. >> They say Garbhashtamam. >> Okay.
(16:15) >> So, that will amount to 7 years. >> 7 years. >> Okay. So, Ashtavarsham Brahmanam Upanayita. Ekadasha Varsham Rajanyam. For Kshatriya, it is 11. So, that may amount to 10. And Dwadasha Varsham Vaishyam. So, some acharyas in commentaries say that upanayana ceremony has been prescribed only for these three varnas.
(16:34) >> Okay. >> And learning of Vedas is only possible after going through the upanayana ceremony. Since upanayana ceremony is only for these three varnas, and it has been given only for purushas, that is men, we can now conclude that others do not have upanayana, and also they are not eligible to learn Vedas. >> Okay.
(16:59) >> This is one thing that has been mentioned in some of the commentaries, such as uh, Bhashyam, etc. >> Okay. >> The Brahma Sutra Bhashyam, etc. Okay. >> Okay. >> So, we have seen three things. We have seen from the Upanishads themselves, under the Simha Tapaniya Upanishad, and that is a very authentic Upanishad which has been commented upon by many Acharyas, okay? And then we saw a verse from Bhagavata itself.
(17:22) And then this logic that has been told by many Acharyas in various commentaries. So, these are the three sources through which we can understand what our Acharyas actually taught. >> Okay. >> Other than this, you can find a numerous sentences in various Shastras, starting from grammar, Vyakarana, where uh you know, commentators have spoken about women not having the eligibility to learn Vedas.
(17:52) >> Okay. >> Okay. Maybe if you have time, I'll explain that later on. >> Sure, sure, Swami. >> Yeah. >> So, you have given reference from the Upanishads, uh Srimad Bhagavatam, and Brahma Sutra Bhashyam. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, [snorts] which tell that women are not eligible to uh learn or read Vedas. >> Yeah, kind of, yes.
(18:08) >> Okay, Swami. But, Swami, we have received a lot of uh comments telling that women can read Vedas, or women have added verses to Vedas. So, uh what is your opinion about that, Swami? >> Uh first of all, when we speak about, you know, people adding verses to Vedas themselves, we must understand that no one has newly written the Vedas.
(18:31) >> Okay. >> The major Sampradayas of Sanatana Dharma agree upon this thing. And that Vedas are Apaurusheya. Vedas have been written by none. And when I say none, even Bhagwan hasn't written the Vedas. >> Okay. >> So, Vedas are eternal just like Bhagwan. >> Okay. [snorts] >> Like Bhagwan is eternal, Vedas are also eternal.
(18:56) Okay? This is something that everyone must understand. When we say uh Rishis wrote the Vedas, or they added verses, what we must understand is uh Rishis did not write by themselves. They are just a Mantra Drashtara. That is, they saw those mantras. They received those mantras. That's all. They never wrote those mantras by themselves. >> Okay.
(19:19) >> This is the traditional belief of all the Sampradayas. Okay? So, Rishis are not authors of the Vedas. >> Okay. >> They are just transmitters of Vedas. >> Okay. >> Pravartanam they say in Sanskritam. >> Okay. >> Okay, among these Rishis some are women. >> Okay. >> How do we know that? You know, in Rigveda or Yajurveda, Samaveda, we have many mantras.
(19:47) Okay? When there is a mantra, usually every mantra has a Rishi, Chandas, and Devata. A Rishi who saw that mantra. Chandas is the meter in which that mantra has been composed. Like there are many Chandas, Anushtubh, Trishtubh, Jagati, Pankti, and all. So, like, you know, even in a normal shloka, we have some Chandas meter, right? Like we have Vishnu Sahasranama, Vishvam Vishnur Vashatkaro Bhuta Bhavya Bhavat Prabhu.
(20:16) This is called Anushtubh Chandas. >> Okay. >> Anushtubh Chandas is even found in Vedas. Okay, [snorts] this is Chandas, meter we say. So, that is Chandas, and then you have the Devata for whom that mantra is dedicated to. >> Okay. >> So, each mantra has a Rishi who saw that mantra, a Chandas, the meter in which it is composed, and then the Devata to whom that mantra is dedicated to.
(20:43) >> Okay. >> Rishi, Chandaha, >> Devata. >> Devata. There are some texts which speak about the Rishis, the Chandas, and Devatas of each mantra. >> Okay. >> There are some Anukramani, they say. >> Mhm. >> For Rigveda and all, there are some Anukramanis, and in those we find that some Rishikas some Rishis, female Rishis, have been mentioned.
(21:12) And as those who saw those mantras. >> Okay. >> For example, it may be Lopamudra, Apala, etc. Okay. >> Now, does this establish that a woman can learn Vedas? No. I would like to make two points here. One thing, we don't know the process of someone receiving a mantra. Do we know Do we have any rishi? No. So, we don't know exactly what happened during that time, how these came to be perceived as mantras, we don't know.
(21:43) And does this directly establish that a woman can learn all the Vedas? No. >> Okay. >> You need a shastric injunction for that. >> Yes. >> Okay. That is one point. >> Okay. >> And again, even if we infer that a woman can learn Vedas since they have seen some mantras, we cannot infer that that can be done now. >> Okay.
(22:07) >> Because it could be something that happened in a previous kalpa. It could have happened in a previous yuga. So, each kalpa has its own set of dharmas. Each yuga has its own set of dharmas. Okay? >> I was about to ask this for me as as my second question because somebody in the comment section, they asked that in shastras as it is told that in the previous kalpa, women could have have upanayanam done and then they also had Vedas. They read Vedas.
(22:40) So, is this really true, Swami? >> Okay. You know, there is this verse which goes as follows. Purakalpetu narinam maujibandhanam ishyate. Adhyapanancha vedanam savitri vachanam tatha. Okay, this is the verse which says that purakalpetu in the previous kalpas or in the previous kalpa, narinam even women had mauji [clears throat] bandhanam.
(23:06) Usually during the upanayana samskara, there is one thing that is called mauji. It is a type of grass which is you know worn around the waist. Okay, that is called mauji. You have to wear that mauji bandhanam they say. So women used to have mauji bandhanam. Vedanam adhyapanam cha vedanam. So they used to learn vedas.
(23:26) So adhyapanam was done. Teaching was done to them. And then Savitri vachanam tatha. They could also tell the Gayatri mantra. >> Okay. >> This is one thing. And you know >> [snorts] >> we do not have the whole smriti which speaks about all these things. >> Mhm. >> It has been quoted by various acharyas in various other granthas.
(23:48) >> Okay. >> I think this is Yama Smriti, also called Yama Samhita somewhere. So this is Yama Smriti in which you find this verse. >> Okay. >> Along with this you know in any Dharmashastra text peo- peo- people speak about another Smriti which is Harita Smriti. Okay, [snorts] in that Harita Smriti two types of women have been mentioned.
(24:13) The first type is called Brahmavadinya. Brahmavadini, you can understand. >> Mhm. >> And then Sadyovadhva. Sadyovadhu. Vadhu basically is you know bride. Okay. Sadyovadhu once she is you know ready, she becomes a bride. That is she gets married. That is one type of ladies. And then the other type is Brahmavadinya.
(24:36) Those who learned vedas. >> Okay. >> Okay. So regarding them there are some rules that have been mentioned. That they could go through the upanayana samskara. They must reside in their own house and learn the vedas from their father or brother or [snorts] you know uncle etc. >> Oh. >> They must not go somewhere else.
(24:54) >> Okay. >> And for a brahmachari when someone is learning vedas and is a Brahmachari, he must uh you know beg for alms. >> Okay. >> But she need not go outside to beg for alms alms. She can you know uh reside in her house and do bhiksha and all. These have been mentioned. >> Just to clarify Swami, this is in the previous kalpa.
(25:13) >> See, these are two verses. >> Okay. >> One is from Manusmriti and this is from Harita Smriti. >> Okay. >> All the Dharmashastra granthas which deal about these Smritis these verses >> [sighs and gasps] >> have mentioned that these are Dharmas which were followed in a previous kalpa. >> Okay. >> Because in the first Smriti you find the word Purakalpi.
(25:37) >> Huh. >> Purakalpi means a previous kalpa. >> Previous kalpa. >> So there must have been a time when these were followed. But now we don't follow that. >> What is a kalpa Swami? >> See now a kalpa basically is one day of Brahma. >> Okay. >> See Brahma's one day is a kalpa. In one day of Brahma there are many many chaturyugas.
(26:02) So it's very large period of time. >> Okay. >> Long period of time. >> Okay. >> And now we are in Shvetavaraha kalpa. >> Okay. >> This kalpa is named Shvetavaraha kalpa. So when we say Purakalpa there must be another kalpa in which people must have uh you know done all this. And it could be possible that it was then that these verses were found.
(26:27) >> Okay. >> The those from the Rigveda etc. >> Okay. >> All the Dharmashastra granthas are pretty clear about this. This happened somewhere sometime before. >> Okay. In a different kalpa. >> In a different kalpa, yes. >> So that doesn't So because it happened in a different kalpa doesn't mean that it applies to today's I mean this kalpa Shvetavaraha kalpa.
(26:47) >> See each yuga has its own dharma. >> Okay. >> Like Kaliyuga dharma is different. >> Okay. >> In some Puranas you'll have this uh a chapter dedicated for Kaliyuga Varjyam. >> Okay. >> What all must be avoided in Kaliyuga. >> Okay. >> So each Yuga has its own Dharma, set of Dharmas. >> This must have been from another Kalpa.
(27:08) >> Okay. >> why the Smriti itself says Purakalpe tu naranam >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. And uh you know, this uh verse has been quoted in many places. Like in even in grammar in uh grammar you must be aware of Panini. Panini [snorts] is the one who you know uh who has written the Sutras regarding Sanskrit grammar. >> Okay.
(27:31) >> There there is a word uh which is Bahvṛcī. And others, there are some other words. See, Bahvṛcī is a word which denotes a female. >> Mhm. >> Ṛk means the the mantras of Ṛgveda. >> Okay. It has >> its own definition, Mimamsa Shastra. But again, there is a Ṛk. A woman who has uh learned many Ṛk is called a Bahvṛcī.
(27:59) >> Oh. >> So there is this word which has been mentioned in uh grammar. >> Okay. >> In that place uh you know, the commentators of Yākaraṇam they speak about this. They ask, "Since women are prohibited from learning the Vedas, how can a woman be Bahvṛcī?" >> Oh. >> So they ask this question. And they say Purakalpe tu naranam bhunjiyeran misyati.
(28:22) >> Okay. >> This is something that happened before. And some commentators don't consider this verse to be authentic. >> Okay. >> So what they do is they show another way to understand this. They say, "It doesn't exactly mean that she is the one who is uh actually learning the Vedas.
(28:44) She comes from a family or a lineage in which many Ṛk mantras are you know learned. Okay. So Bhakrichi doesn't exactly mean that she is the one who is learning all the mantras. >> Okay. >> But it is someone else in that family who does >> Swami, I asked that does each Kalpa has a different set of rules? But you told that each Yuga itself has a different set of rules.
(29:07) Just to clarify, does each Kalpa has a different set of rules? >> You know from these verses we get to know that. >> Okay. So what applies to the previous Kalpa can't be applied to this Kalpa. >> Yeah. See, even a small period of time like a Yuga has different set of sets of rules. Okay.
(29:24) So maybe each Kalpa has a different set of rule. >> Okay. Just because there's a possibility of women studying Vedas in the previous Kalpa doesn't mean that women can study Vedas in this Kalpa. >> In this Kalpa. See, we must all understand that this is a traditional view. >> Okay. >> Now you cannot just you know bring in this the modern view of time.
(29:45) >> Okay. [clears throat] >> know the Vedas were written 4,000 years ago or 3,000 years ago and you bring it it will not make sense. The traditional view is we have gone through lakhs of years. >> Okay. >> Okay. It's it has been 5,000 years since Kali has started. >> [snorts] >> And there were lakhs of years which have passed.
(30:05) >> Okay. >> So I [snorts] am speaking in the traditional view. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And Swami, some people who also asked about is there a scientific reason why women shouldn't read Vedas? >> See, I think they can listen to our video regarding science versus religion through which they will get clarity and you know so that question itself would be not very apt.
(30:32) >> Okay. >> Because if we go on searching for scientific reasons for everything, what would happen is we'll be rendering the rendering the Shastras useless. >> Okay. >> Because yes, if science can prove everything, why do we need shastras? >> Okay. >> So, that we have discussed in an elaborate manner in that video. Yeah.
(30:51) >> Yes, Swami. Okay, Swami. So, I asked whether um women added verses to the Vedas, and uh you have uh clarified that women uh rishikas, as you say, Apala, Lopamudra, they might have added some verses to the Vedas, but that doesn't give the right or that doesn't convey that women can read Vedas. >> Yeah. >> Okay, that's the first one.
(31:16) And then you said that >> That cannot be understood as a woman can read Vedas today. >> Okay. Uh that comes uh that comes clear from the second question where uh you said there are different uh rules for different kalpas, and there are different rules for even yugas. So, uh what applies in the previous kalpa can't apply in this kalpa.
(31:34) >> Yeah. >> Okay, Swami. Uh some people have also claimed that uh there are some places in shastras where uh upanayanam is allowed for women. Uh wherein shastra exactly does it say so, Swami? >> There are shastras which seem to say that there is upanayanam for uh women. >> Where, which shastra, Swami? >> Uh the Manusmriti speaks about that.
(31:56) It says "Vaivahiko vidhih strinam aupanayanikah smritah." Okay, so there is uh two pathas here. That is, there are two versions here of this shloka. But one version says that the upanayana is vivaha for women. >> Okay. >> Okay, there is this uh verse in Manusmriti, and there are many other Smriti Granthas, Grihya Sutra Granthas, where this has been mentioned.
(32:24) >> Mhm. >> So, even when it is said that uh a small upanayanam must be done, there are some verses, like we saw about Harita Smriti. There when we are speaking about the Sadyovadhus who were to be married immediately. Okay, even for them a small Upanayana ceremony has been mentioned there. >> Okay. >> But we don't know how it must be done and all.
(32:45) Okay? >> Okay. >> So, we do not have the exact method of how to do. But what we follow today, most of the Sampradayas follow today is Upanayanam is in the place of Vivaha. >> Okay. >> So, Vivaha is Upanayanam for women. >> Okay. >> So, and it is not me saying that. I have quoted the verse. Vaivahiko Vidhis Trinam Upanayanika Smritaha.
(33:07) >> Okay. >> And there are many Granthas where you can find many more citations, sources. >> Okay. Okay, Swami. So, uh keeping this all aside, you said Vedas are not for women. So, how do they gain knowledge? >> See, we have already told in the previous episode that uh women are equally eligible for liberation. >> Okay.
(33:29) >> Okay. How do they gain the knowledge required to attain liberation? That is through Itihasas, Puranas, etc. I was speaking about Mahabharatam, right? >> Yes. >> So, why was Mahabharata written? So that everyone who are eligible or not eligible to learn Vedas can uh you know, gather knowledge from Mahabharata.
(33:47) >> Okay. >> And from Mahabharata, you can know everything. Dharme Charte Cha Kame Cha Mokshe Cha Bharatarsabha Itihase Tadanyatra Yenne Hasti Natat Kwachit. >> [sighs] >> Do you want to know about Dharma or Artha or Kama or Moksha? You can know that through Mahabharata. >> Okay. >> So, there are Itihasas, Puranas and other ways through which you can learn the meanings of Vedas, the purport of Vedas.
(34:12) And also there are mentions of uh great women like Gargi, Maitreyi in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad >> [sighs] >> who have, you know, asked their husbands or others about the Brahmam, the supreme reality. >> Okay. >> Okay? They have always participated in these kind of discussions. >> Yes. >> They may not learn the Vedas directly, but they have always participated in discussions.
(34:39) They have learned Brahmam through many other ways. So, you know, they can learn through Itihasas, Puranas, and many other things. Like even if you read an English translation, you may understand that. >> Okay, but you also said that women are not supposed to read Itihasas and Puranas also. >> Yeah.
(34:59) See, again, people get triggered when we say you must not learn these that. But again, I have learned Sanskrit for more than 10 years. See, I started learning Sanskritam when I was 15 or 16, right? I have been through many Sanskrit texts. Even now, if I read something like Bhagavatam, it is very tough for me to understand. >> Okay. >> I have to go through all the commentaries to understand what the Bhagavata shloka literally means.
(35:26) >> Okay. >> For this, just the literal meaning, I need to go to the translation or the commentary. So, for most of the women who do not have the knowledge of Sanskritam, they of course have to rely on translations, right? So, you can read translations and get the knowledge of those things. And mainly, even if I read Ramayana on my own, what would I learn from that? Not much.
(35:54) We have to go to a a good Acharya, authentic Acharya, to learn the things. >> Okay. >> So, finally, we have to go to a go to a qualified Acharya, learn things, okay? And that will be through learning Itihasas, Puranas. We have so many Granthas written by our Acharyas. Like in Sri Vaishnava Sampradayam, we have so many Granthas, Mumukshuppadi, Srivachana Bhushanam, so many.
(36:19) So, we don't have enough time to even read all those things, right? So, it is through them that even people who are eligible to learn Vedas, actually gain knowledge. >> Okay. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So, you have told that everybody is eligible for liberation. And knowledge is a way for liberation also. And here you have told that women they can gain knowledge through Itihasas, Puranas, different Sri Vaishnava granthas in our sampradaya.
(36:51) So, why do men need to learn Vedas then? They can also do the same that women do, right? >> Yeah. Very good question here. A valid question, actually. See, why do men who are eligible to learn Vedas learn Vedas? The shastras themselves say, it is his duty to learn Vedas. >> Okay. >> When a brahmana doesn't learn Vedas, he incurs sin.
(37:22) >> Okay. >> So, his duty is to protect, preserve, and preach the Vedas. >> Okay. >> So, when he doesn't do his duty, he incurs a sin. >> Okay. >> So, a person who learns the Vedas is learning the Vedas just to save himself from a sin. >> Okay. >> Okay. And if he goes on to learn the meanings of the Vedas, maybe he'll attain more results as well.
(37:48) >> Okay. >> And also he has to do some nitya karmas. >> Okay. >> Again, those nitya karmas like sandhyavandanam etc. they don't have some great result. >> Okay. >> If a brahmana doesn't do sandhyavandanam, he'll incur sin again. >> Okay. >> So, for him to do sandhyavandanam, he must know how to do sandhyavandanam.
(38:05) For that, he has to learn something, right? >> Okay. >> So, similarly, there are many nitya karmas. To perform them, you need to have some knowledge of Vedas. >> Okay. >> So, these all are nitya karmas for a brahmana. >> Okay. >> So, if he doesn't perform them, he'll incur a sin. That's all. >> Okay. >> That is a main thing.
(38:25) And when we speak about a learning Vedas, I think I have to clarify this thing. >> Mhm. >> See, when we say we learn Vedas, there is a there is a very long process that happens. Usually when a Brahmin starts learning Vedas, his upanayanam happens when he's 7 years old, usually. It could be uh delayed sometimes. And sometimes, you know, it could be done even earlier.
(38:48) Once he has gone through his upanayanam samskara, he goes to do Veda adhyayanam. Veda adhyayanam is basically memorizing Vedas. >> Okay. >> Okay? We must memorize Vedas, okay? And most of the people who do Veda adhyayanam stop with memorizing those Vedas, that's all. >> Okay. >> They don't get into understanding the Vedas, most of them.
(39:12) Because I have studied with many people who have learned Vedas, you know, I was also uh part of a gurukulam, right? So, most of them they don't get into the meanings of the Vedas. Okay? Now, let me give you an example. It was during the time of Parashara Bhattar. You know, he's a disciple of Ramanujacharya. He was conducting a kalakshepam, that was he was teaching his disciples.
(39:37) And when this was going on, a seemingly learned person came to his goshti, him came to his kalakshepam. This person had learned many shastras, many Vedas, etc. When he came to that goshti, Parashara Bhattar honored him and let him go. And then, a person who hadn't learned much, he had just learned some Divya Prabandhas, etc.
(40:04) , he came to that goshti. Parashara Bhattar immediately welcomed him, honored him so much, you know? The disciples got confused. >> Okay. >> They saw that the seemingly learned person was honored less, and this person was excessively honored. >> Mhm. They posed the question in front [clears throat] of the Acharya. Parashara Bhattar says, uh you know, have some patience.
(40:28) I'll show you what the reality is. You know, one day that learned person came to this ghosti. Parashara Bhattar asked him, you what is the truth? What is the reality? Who is the supreme being etc. He said I have gone through many shastras and all. But you know, it's very confusing. I cannot be sure about things, he said.
(40:48) And when the same question was posed to that other person, he said, why do you even ask this? For me Narayana is the supreme being. Surrendering onto him is the ultimate thing to do. So, Parashara Bhattar showcased the difference between both of them. >> Okay. >> One had learned a lot, but he wasn't sure about anything.
(41:13) This person, [snorts] he didn't learn much, but he had a clarity. >> Okay. >> Okay. For a Sri Vaishnava, that is the clarity which is needed, right? So, Parashara Bhattar actually honored this person more. >> Okay. >> So, what do we get from this? It is not just a learning Vedas that brings us respect or that brings us liberation.
(41:35) It is the understanding of Vedas that brings us liberation. >> Okay. >> And understanding the purport of Vedas necessarily doesn't need the adhyayana of Vedas. >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay? >> Yes. >> Because the purport of Vedas can be understood through itihasas, puranas and our acharyas. >> Okay. You mean the essence of Vedas? >> Essence of Vedas, yes.
(41:57) >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, understanding the essence of Vedas is more important than me just a reciting the Vedas. >> Okay. >> So, you'll find many upanyasakas, lectures, you know, kathavachakas etc. who haven't learned the Vedas, but people follow them. They must have not memorized the Vedas, but people follow them because they know the essence of the Vedas. Okay.
(42:20) So, that is more important than Vedas themselves. >> Okay. >> So, when someone asked, "Why are these people actually learning Vedas?" They are not learning Vedas or not everyone is learning Vedas to go to liberation. >> Okay. >> Since he was born in a varna, he is required to do that adhyayanam. >> Else he incurs a sin.
(42:40) >> Yeah. >> So, men of some varnas are required by shastras to learn the Vedas, else they incur a sin. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, is there a part in shastras where it says that men can't read certain things, Swami? Like women aren't supposed to read Vedas, such that is there something for men? >> Okay. Okay, I'll tell this.
(43:00) You know, many people think that a brahmana or men can, you know, try Vedic men can read any Veda they want. It's not so. There are many rules attached to this. >> Okay. >> For example, I am a person who [snorts] comes in a lineage of Sama Veda adhyayis. >> Mhm. >> So, we are basically Sama Vedis. >> Mhm. >> So, if I have to start learning Vedas, I must start only with Sama Veda.
(43:26) >> Okay. >> I cannot go and start learning Yajur Veda. >> Okay. >> I just cannot go and learn Rig Veda. I just can't go and learn Atharva Veda. >> Okay. >> So, they are all prohibited for me in the beginning. Once I start learning the Sama Veda and I finish my Sama Veda, only then can I go to another Veda. >> Okay.
(43:46) >> And again, there is another rule I'll I'll tell about. In Sama Veda, there are three shakhas that are available today. >> Okay. >> Sama Veda has three shakhas again. >> Okay. >> I belong to particular shakha. >> Okay. >> That is called the Kauthuma shakha. >> Okay. >> There are other shakhas, Jaiminiya shakha, Ranayaniya shakha.
(44:04) >> Okay. >> Now, I am supposed to learn only my shakha of Sama Veda. >> So, you're not supposed to learn the other two. >> Other two. So, when I start learning Vedas, I have to learn Kauthuma shakha of Sama Veda. >> Okay. >> After learning my shakha, now I can go to another Veda. >> Okay. >> Like I can start learning Rig Veda.
(44:24) >> Okay. >> But there are some verses which say that I can go to another Veda. I can learn three Vedas. But first I have to start with Sama Veda and then move on to other Vedas. But I can never learn another shakha of my own Sama Veda. >> Okay. >> So, I can't go and learn Jaiminiya shakha ever. >> Okay. >> People also say that I will incur a dosha called a shakhatana dosha.
(44:52) >> If you read the other two shakhas. >> Other shakhas. >> Okay. >> So, there are some things that have been prohibited for me. >> Okay. >> And for a period of time, I can't read Yajur Veda. >> Okay. >> read Rig Veda until I have finished my portion of >> Okay. >> Vedas. >> Which is very vast. >> Which itself takes many years.
(45:09) >> Okay. >> Six years, seven years, eight years. Okay? Only after that can I move on to another Veda. >> Okay. >> So, it is not like I can start reading anything I want. >> Okay. >> Everything has its rules. >> Okay. >> So, when people think that oh, they can do everything, life [clears throat] is so easy for them. It's not so.
(45:27) Everyone has their own rules that they have to follow. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. So, coming to a conclusion for me, women are not supposed to learn Vedas. >> Mhm. Uh but is there any part in Vedas that women can say? >> Yeah. See, there are specific rituals in which women are allowed to utter some verses. >> In specific rituals.
(45:47) >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. Uh let me give an example. In Mimamsa shastra, uh there are some adhikarana which deal with uh the eligibility of women. >> Okay. >> So, when you know, assume that a person is performing a Yaga for going to heaven. >> Okay. >> Okay? Now, when he's performing a Yaga, is he only eligible for Swarga or his wife also? >> Okay.
(46:16) >> Both of them are eligible. So, this is Sahakartrutvam. Both of them together perform the Yaga. >> Okay. >> And the result will also be experienced by both of them together. >> Okay. >> Some people even say in those Adhikaranas that if one person, you know, leaves this body and goes to heaven first, he'll be waiting there >> Okay.
(46:40) [snorts] >> till his wife comes. So, you know, if the wife goes first, she'll be waiting for the husband to come. >> Okay. >> So, they perform uh together and they uh attain the result together. >> Okay. >> So, see, even if that uh a woman hasn't specifically learned all the Vedas, she can attain the same result as her husband.
(47:03) >> Okay. >> Because finally, they are together. >> Okay. >> Whatever he gets, she also gets. Okay? And in these kind of rituals, there are some specific rituals such as Aajya Vekshanam. >> Uh-huh. >> The Yajamana and the Patni, the one who is doing the ritual and his wife, both are required to look at ghee.
(47:25) And while they are looking at that ghee, they must tell a mantra. >> Mhm. >> So, this Patni is also this wife is also required to tell that mantra. She has to learn that mantra to tell that mantra, right? >> Yes. >> So, for these specific mantras, she is allowed to learn those mantras. >> Okay. >> This has been, you know, uh told in the Mimamsa Shastra.
(47:44) >> Okay. Okay. >> She's allowed to learn these parts. >> So, she's allowed to learn certain mantras for certain rituals. >> Yeah. Again, this person, Brahmana, he's also learning his part of Vedas so that he can do his rituals well. >> Okay. Thank you, and Swami. Another question here. Um Uh there are some people who say that in north northern India, uh they have seen women going and getting Upanayanam Samskara and reading Vedas.
(48:14) So, can anyone go and do it, Swami? >> In the end, it is up to them. Bhagwan has given free will to everyone. >> Okay. >> They can do whatever they want. What we are trying to tell is our acharyas have had this opinion. >> Okay. >> Who want to follow, they will follow. That's all, okay? Now, we must understand one thing here. Many people think that Upanayanam is common for everyone.
(48:35) Vedadhyanam is common for everyone. No. See, I come in a lineage, okay? We follow Sama Veda, I said. >> Yes. >> And we have a particular Grihya Sutra. >> Okay. >> Which tells us what rituals I need to follow. How I should follow. My Grihya Sutra is Drahyayana Grihya Sutra. >> Mhm. >> Okay? I have to follow rituals according to that Grihya Sutra.
(49:03) So, since I'm a Brahmin, it doesn't mean all Brahmins have the same thing. No. >> So, does another person with Yajur Veda has They are Do they have a different Grihya Sutra? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Like, you know, many most of the people who are follow who are Yajur Vedis, they follow Apastamba Grihya Sutra or Bodhayana Grihya Sutra.
(49:24) >> Okay. >> That is also decided by their lineage. >> Okay. What is Grihya Sutra, Swami? >> Uh it is basically a text which specifically speaks about what rituals you need to do. >> Okay. [snorts] >> Okay? Um like, you know, be it a Sandhyavandanam, be it a Shraddham, [snorts] etc. everything. >> Okay. So, it's a very basic thing.
(49:43) >> Mhm. Yes. >> Okay. >> But, it differs. >> Okay. >> A Sama Vedi's Sandhyavandanam is completely different from a Yajur Vedi's Sandhyavandanam. >> Okay. there >> will be some commonalities, but the mantras are different. >> Okay. >> Same with Rigvedi. >> Okay. >> And even in an Upanayanam, we think Upanayanam is common for everyone, no? >> Okay.
(50:04) >> For me, I will follow Drahyayana Grihya Sutra in my Upanayanam ceremony. >> Okay. >> So, you'll find that when a Samavedi gets Upanayanam done, they shave their whole head. >> Huh. >> Mundanam. >> Yes. >> Only for that time. >> Okay. >> In the In the Upanayanam, they have have their whole head shaved. >> Okay.
(50:23) >> That is for a Samavedi. But for an Yajurvedi, it's different. They need not have their whole head shaved. >> Okay. >> So, these are things that differ. So, I could be a Vaishnava, I could be a Brahmana, but I need to follow Grihya Sutras for these rituals. >> Okay. >> So, if I need to get Upanayanam done, it must be according to my Grihya Sutra.
(50:44) I can't just go somewhere and take Upanayanam Upanayanam. >> So, and there are some exceptions for these uh rules, okay? >> Okay. >> But what I want to uh tell is it is not as uh simple as people uh take it to be. >> Okay. So, you even men have different uh subsets of rules uh beneath their uh Vedadhyanam. >> Uh and other rituals also.
(51:11) >> Okay. >> For example, usually a Vivaha a Vaidika Vivaha takes place for four or five days. When our marriage was performed, Vivaha was performed, it took place for >> four days. >> four days. But for Yajurvedi, so many of our friends have had, you know, >> Yes. >> for them it is for five days. >> Okay. >> Okay.
(51:33) So, [snorts] that itself changes. >> Okay. >> There are many things that change in every ritual. >> Okay. >> So, when someone wants to get Upanayanam done, or when someone wants to start learn learning Vedas, [snorts] they must know in which lineage they come. >> So, each has their own Veda and their own Shakha and their own Grihya Sutra to follow.
(51:53) >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, it is not just Vedas. It is just so for every household for Okay. >> And then, you know, even in the ceremonies such as Upanayanam, Vivaha, etc., there are some household customs and rituals that come into picture. >> Oh, yes, of course. Yes. >> So, there is so much to this.
(52:13) >> Okay. >> Okay? And again, my only contention is why are you learning Vedas? >> Okay. >> Only to satisfy your ego or are you wanting to achieve something from that? >> Okay. >> So, when we are talking representing a Sampradaya, we want everyone to attain liberation. >> Okay. >> Okay? That is our view. For you to attain liberation, learning the Vedas themselves or memorizing them has not a very big role.
(52:43) >> Okay. >> Okay? It is important to understand the essence of the Vedas. >> Okay. >> That is why in Sri Vaishnava Sampradaya, we have Rahasya Trayam, which is given to one and all, >> Mhm. >> which has the essence of all the Vedas. >> Okay. >> That is Veda Saram for us, right? >> Okay, yes. >> So, finally, if your intention is only to learn Vedas, that is your wish.
(53:05) Okay? But as a Sampradaya, we [snorts] always recommend people to go for the ultimate goal, that is liberation. And you must look at what you need to do to attain that, okay? Yeah. >> A question for me. So, you have quoted many references from and particularly, you have mentioned each and every reference where it is from and everything and people can go and see them, of course.
(53:31) So, those references say that women don't read Vedas, don't have Upanayanam, etc. And you said that men have a men are read Vedas because they incur a sin if they don't. That's why they are called Dwijas. Uh just a question here is for me. I don't know. It's just just a scenario. What would you do if you happen to come up upon some woman who is reading Vedas? What would your reaction be, Swami? >> Indifference.
(53:58) >> Okay. >> Like, you know, people think that we will pounce upon someone and, you know, stop them. Mostly, our [snorts] shastras teach us to be indifferent regarding most of the things. Like, we are here representing our acharyas. That's all. >> Okay. >> We are here to uh you know, propagate to the world what our acharyas felt.
(54:19) Okay? And we are here to give the world the essence of the Vedas. That's all. If someone wants to do something they want, they'll do that. Again, even shastras, what they do is they say you don't do this, if you do this, this happens. That's all. Okay? We'll also take the same stand, right? >> Okay, yes. >> We are here to tell things.
(54:40) It is up to you to follow it or not. >> Because of free will. >> It is free will. Yes, my acharya often says even Bhagwan has given us free will. >> Yes, yes. >> He lets us do whatever we want, right? >> Yes. >> We have seen that in, you know, the video regarding law of karma. >> Yes. >> Similarly, we too need to allow them.
(55:00) And, you know, me personally, all right? Sometimes, some people complain about me that I don't force them enough. >> Yes. >> [laughter] >> Okay. >> Yes. >> So, I personally, I don't force anyone to do anything. But, it doesn't mean that we should not even stand up for ourselves. Okay? There are many people who say that in Hinduism, you can do whatever you want.
(55:23) You can still be a Hindu. And sometimes, I feel that we have to stand up and say no. There are rules even for a Hindu. There are shastras which tell us to do what we need to do and what we do ought not to do. >> Okay. >> So, sometimes we had we have to represent them, right? It is not like you being a Hindu can do whatever you want. It's not so.
(55:45) Because there is a a large number of Shastras which are trying to tell you, you know, guide you through the right path. >> Okay. >> So, we represent them mostly in difference, you know. >> Okay. >> I'll be indifferent towards them, yeah. >> Okay. So, you're meaning to say that uh people can do what they want to do.
(56:05) >> Mhm. >> You have just told what the Shastras are telling. According to our Sri Vaishnava Sampradaya, >> Mhm. >> you have told what are the set of rules or the instruction books or an instruction book that we need to follow. So, you have just laid it out there. It is for them to take it or not to take it.
(56:20) You're not forcing anybody, right, anyway. >> Okay. >> Yes, yes, of course. And you know, uh when you were asking that question regarding people uh performing Upanayana for women and all, our answer, I you know, I was answering that, you know, I got diverted. You know, usually our attitude towards them would be indifference, okay? And again, uh the questions that arise when someone does that is what is the purpose of doing that? That is one thing.
(56:47) Another thing is what Grihya Sutra or Smriti do you follow while performing that? Because each family has its own tradition >> [clears throat] >> which has to be followed. Okay? So, I cannot suddenly go and have a have start learn Rigveda, right? >> Yes. >> So, someone uh without any prior knowledge about their tradition and all cannot start learning Vedas as they are.
(57:11) >> Okay. >> So, it leads to a lot of complications. >> Okay. >> So, better to uh you know, learn the essence of the Vedas and you know, go towards the main purpose that is liberation. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, Swami, when we say that women are ineligible to do certain Karmas or uh learn Vedas, etc., uh are they uh are they considered sinful or are they considered inferior than men? >> Everything that we have today we experience today is a result of our karma.
(57:41) >> Okay. >> Okay? The eligibilities, ineligibilities, other things, and all. What we do today is in our hands. We have that free will to decide. Okay, this must be understood. Basically, telling that all women are sinful because they don't have eligibility to learn Vedas wouldn't be right. >> Okay. >> I will I will explain to you.
(58:01) Is that particular ineligibility a result of a sin or a punya? Let me explain. You know, do you know the [snorts] story of King Parikshit? >> Yes. >> He was actually cursed that he would be, uh, you know, bitten by a snake in 7 days' time. So, now he went into this situation due to a sin. >> Okay. >> Okay? Due to some, uh, misdeed that he did.
(58:32) But, he used that 7 days to listen to Srimad Bhagavatam, and he straightaway went to liberation. Now, that sin which resulted in that situation, is that really a sin? >> Considering everything, I wouldn't say so. >> So, in hindsight, he used that for his benefit. >> Yes. >> So, that sin actually benefited him. >> Yes.
(58:57) >> Okay, so, just telling that I am ineli- ineligible today, that's why, you know, I have no other opportunity or I am sinful, that is not the way to think about it, nor should I think about a woman like that, nor should a woman think about herself like that. >> Yes. >> We have been given enough opportunities to attain liberation.
(59:19) [snorts] >> Okay. >> Bhagavan has always given everyone the opportunity to attain liberation. No one is deprived of that opportunity. >> Okay. >> So, the greatest result, that is liberation is open to one and all. >> Okay. >> So, we must utilize the situation that we are in to make ourself ready for liberation. >> Okay.
(59:42) So, you're saying that instead of finding backtracking where how we got that sin or how sinful we are, you're telling to make best use of the opportunity we have now in hand. >> Yeah. And one more thing, every birth that we take is a result of a combination of sins and punya. That is papa and punya. No person is completely sinful or no person is completely, you know, >> pure.
(1:00:07) >> pure, okay. Punyaful, okay. So, everyone, if I have taken this birth, it is due to a combination of punya and papa. That is why I sometimes suffer. I also sometimes get to be happy. >> So, being born as a man or as a woman doesn't define your sins. >> In in some shastras it is said that if a man leaves his wife, who is a very good person without any reason, he would take seven births as a woman who would be left by her husband.
(1:00:45) >> Okay. So, he would go through what he put his wife through. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And seven times that. >> Seven times that, okay. >> And going by this, in similar fashion, uh and in similar fashion you can say, if a woman does that, maybe she'll go through seven births >> uh as a man. >> So, it is not a man or a woman who has sinned, but it is but it is a jivatma who has sinned.
(1:01:12) >> Okay. >> So, considering women as sinful or men as sinful or someone else as sinful is not right. In Sanatana Dharma, we must understand that it is the jivatma who is going through many births. >> Okay. So, people make the mistake of attributing gender to jivatma, and they get offended sometimes. Yes. >> So, it is the duty of everyone to try to attain liberation.
(1:01:38) Everyone has the eligibility for that. Everyone. No one is deprived of that uh opportunity. So, we must all look at that, and for you, for me, for any person, finally, it is sharanagati, surrender onto Bhagwan's holy feet, that is going to give us liberation. That is what makes us a Sri Vaishnavas. >> Okay. >> And when people ask, "Can women learn Vedas?" Yes, of course, they can learn some Vedas, the Dravida Vedas.
(1:02:14) The Nalayira Divya Prabandham Pasurams, which are called Dravida Vedas, they can be learned by everyone. Finally, a Vaishnava becomes a Vaishnava when he learns >> Divya Prabandham. >> Divya Prabandhams. A great Acharya called Arulmigu Manavala Mamunigal, he says, "Yes, a Vaishnava becomes a Vaishnava when he learns the Divya Prabandham Pasurams of Nammalvar, and Nammalvar was not a Traivarnika.
(1:02:40) It is by learning his Pasurams that we become a real Vaishnava. >> Okay. >> So, finally, every Vaishnava is expected to learn Divya Prabandhams. That is when he becomes a Vaishnava. Vaishnava Tattva Siddhi is achieved only then. So, we must all look at things that really matter. And we must strive towards them, and you know, if your only goal is to learn the Vedas, you are you have not come to the right place.
(1:03:14) If your goal is to attain the supreme goal. Then our sampradaya our traditions can show you what you need to do. >> Okay. >> So finally it must not be I need to learn Vedas. I want to satisfy my ego or something else. That is not what our traditions stand for. We are here to attain liberation and that can be achieved not just by learning Vedas but again by understanding the essence of Vedas and surrendering to the holy feet of the Lord.
(1:03:47) >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Swami you've clarified a majority of our doubts here. Almost everything. But sorry for asking more questions here. Some people claim that Islamic invasion has something to do with the strictness of the rules and that rules have been more stricter after the Islamic invasions have happened.
(1:04:04) What is your take on that Swami? >> See there are many things that have changed after the invasions from the foreigners. Be it the Islamic invasions or you know the Britishers rule over India. It has affected a large part of our customs, rituals etc. >> Okay. >> But regarding this Vedadhyayanam maybe it has not affected as much.
(1:04:27) >> Okay. >> Maybe it has affected other learning processes etc. But regarding Vedadhyayanam we have you know Granthas such as Shankara Bhashya and even you know ancient texts which have which all have the same opinion regarding this. >> Okay. >> So maybe this particular issue cannot be completely attributed to the invasions.
(1:04:54) >> Okay. So you're saying that there might have been some changes here and there but the foundation has never changed. >> Regarding women doing Vedadhyayanam >> Okay. Yeah yeah the same. >> There are many other things that have changed. >> Changed of course. So we are coming to the end of our video Swami and it was very extremely it was really extremely helpful knowing all of these details for me.
(1:05:16) I hope it has helped the people that have asked these questions. And I'm hoping to see you in another video Swami where we address a different group of questions Swami. So I think this is for today's Swami. Very happy to have you with us. Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan. >> Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan. Thanks for watching this video. We at Bhaktamrutam are committed to deliver the best quality content regarding Sanatana Dharma and Sri Vaishnava Sampradaya.
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(1:06:03) Thank you.
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