AARUSHI TALWAR’s parents interview after 16 years | BODY TO BEIING (EP-5) | SHLLOKA

AARUSHI TALWAR’s parents interview after 16 years | BODY TO BEIING (EP-5) | SHLLOKA

Author Name:SHLLOKA

Youtube Channel Url:https://www.youtube.com/@Shlloka_B2B

Youtube Video URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y85khYKDXXs



Transcript:
(00:00) been memories of that time 2008 actually happened when I was just going through your questions the tragic story The D murder in NOA of a young girl arishi the one thing that we have learned over these last 16 years is that we cannot take anything for granted 2008 we had a very happy life happy family comfortable full of fun and laughter and everything was very good and time kind of flew and before we knew it our little baby was planning her 14th birthday then May 2008 happened and overnight life just turned around a whirlwind of things
(00:36) were happening actually leaving us no time to even grieve for arushi the media frenzy was enormous and every morning we would wake up to see something new in the newspaper and see something new on the TV and running around with lawyers somebody attacked me and it was a pretty serious thing in the sense that by the time I reached my brother thought I had gone I was unconscious there was no pulse and I had faal wounds hand wounds blood pressure had gone down to 6040 it's in 2013 when finally the Judgment happened the life sentence was
(01:05) pronounced and that's the time actually when the Witch Hunt also ended just before the Judgment happened we would hide under gaps cover our face because public perception was so I mean it's uncomfortable if somebody stares at you tell me about Ari's childhood what kind of an individual was she but arushi was very loving and very very sensitive she was very bright very intelligent she studied in DPS always top of her class she was reading some very serious books of human tragedy what tragedies women go through in Iraq and Iran if I go back in
(01:37) time you know 16th of May is a day you don't want to be reminded of but I want to look at the insights of what may have happened to the runup talking about arushi do you experience her presence have you felt her communicate or have you tried to communicate I have connected with arushi she's sending a message to her parents that she's very happy she's very busy and uh she wants her parents to be at Mom Dad be in peace I felt that she's there she's sitting on my lap and she's hugging me I've never felt that again
(02:08) such intense presence so we have felt her coming to us at many times he said he felt that he knew there was something hugely wrong in all that had happened and he came and met us inside jail 2015 after the conviction he said can you just cover your head and I just we started a clinic there and both of us were running that I was doing the mail this thing she was for the female I think that kept us engaged routines are very fixed in J you wake up at 5:30 then you do prayers there's a very fixed times you have tea and then you have
(02:42) your breakfast and then you the Barrack is again closed in the afternoons you're out again in the evening you stroll a bit or whatever and then again at 7:00 you're shut so life is tough and you spent four years 4 years doing thata 2:00 the Judgment came in and some the Jailer sent in somebody tell us that we both were acquitted this is probably the first time we've ever had a [Music] chance namaskaram Dr Nur talar and Dr Rajesh talwar thank you so much for this conversation this is a very sensitive subject matter and I really appreciate
(03:21) you giving me the time and trusting me with this conversation how are you both doing thank you for having us here schloka today I think we are coping with it trying to cope with the situations and what all we've gone through carrying on how about you sir thank youa yeah we managing like you said coping and uh managing and carrying on day by day what has the last 16 years taught you the one thing that we have learned over these last 16 years is that uh we cannot take anything for granted before 2008 we had a very happy life happy family
(03:57) comfortable full of fun and laughter everything was very good and time kind of flew and before we knew it our little baby was planning her 14th birthday then May 2008 happened and overnight life just turned around the pain and the agony the suffering and the struggles started life can change at any point for any of us as I have seen it as an outsider these 16 years have been marred with immense challenges for the both of you right from public mob Fury you know to trials to scrutiny to imprisonment losing years of your Prime life Prestige
(04:37) Wealth Health like I was mentioning to you right before we started this conversation I don't think anyone else who would have been in your position would have come out San how have you dealt with it we were very private people I know life focused on arushi our family parents going to the clinic back from the clinic small world in a small life we thrown into as you rightly said this huge Whirlwind of police investigations accusations and disgrace and in fam and even jail and everything else that happened I think we
(05:13) agree rajes that the biggest thing that we've had to deal with all this is the presence and support of a huge number of people you know my family my brother my sister-in-law so they have been like absolute Pillars of Strength for us they were always there I think that was one and the second thing is some part of it is a just intrinsic strength which you have which uh as you face a situation you face it nobody could have ever imagined in their life that they will be facing this situation I mean you can think of
(05:44) anything else you can think of tragedies happen you know but this is something you cannot even dream of you can't even imagine it but as you as you face a situation you just you know you just fight back you just try to get support from people you talk to each other and that's how you sort of manage some in some way or the other but it's not easy at all it is extremely difficult I mean family was there of course like my parents are were very old every day they were there at the court inside that courtroom when we were inside during
(06:18) before we got bailed during under trial time they were visiting us there which is not an easy job was you have to spend hours waiting outside the jail meeting one person and then waiting again so there was huge huge family support and also I must say that there was a lot of people entered Our Lives people we didn't know of miraculously entered our lives and have touched it and helped us in so many ways now when I look back I can think of a sick gentleman it's a small story if I if I may sure sinder Singh Reiki we didn't
(06:50) know him at all sometime in 2015 that he read the book arushi it seems he's not an Avid Reader and he said I never used to read books but somehow he got his hands on this book and he said he felt that he knew there was something hugely wrong in all that had happened so he approached some family members and then he came and met us inside jail 2015 after the conviction all he carried was some pkas a bar of chocolate we didn't have much to say because we really didn't know each other but he says can I do Aras and with you so he gave rajes a
(07:26) PKA when he met him and then later he met me and he said can you just cover your head and I just want to do ardas so he did ardas he gave us that little piece of chocolate and he was gone but from he gave those shab sub shabads to read and I was absolutely clueless about I iani and gbani and anything of that kind of spirituality so he said like um I want you to read this I'm going to help you understand it at this time but if you can try and read these yourself and then he was gone but since that day till today he's been one huge Pillar of
(08:00) Strength he supported us not only emotionally financially spiritually he's introduced us to the sik gurus the gurwara and The guru's Words which have actually held us on for so many years that was just after the incident and about 2009 when we met V was who an aid you know beli in Sai Baba okay so she um in fact you know we we used to go for Amrit bani at her house every Thursday from 9 to 12:30 1:00 and then she used to make lunch and all that for everybody and she used to do the amitani and used to get the the Udi as you know the
(08:37) secret as which used to come on her so she used to treat us me like a son and like a daughter despite all the negativity that was there so it's that kind of there were people like that who were who believed Us in us like that and who gave us that kind of love and affection pricess absolutely the love and affection we got of people we didn't know at all then there others like um there was this I think group of youngsters we didn't know all these people ever and we didn't even know the we were inside so we hardly were able to
(09:06) have any communication with anybody youngsters from different parts of the country in fact and they got together and they were see when we went inside there was no WhatsApp and social media was hardly anything so by the time he came out we realized that a whole sea of change had happened and uh so these youngsters were you know in their own manner kind of trying to spread the word of about AR about our innocence and uh when we came out then they also helped us move along in our clinic and digitalized it and you know did things
(09:38) like that which um was very nice so then the patients were also there who from day one they've been back waiting for us and all everyone has a nice and kind word to say which is amazing considering the amount of negativity that U surrounded us you know I think that is one thing this connection with people we knew and we didn't know which has um H us and given us a huge group calls the extended talar family okay andely 15 20 young people in that M and we've got a group and we keep talking and you know all of them are busy they're doing their
(10:15) work but we you know keep meeting up and on all parts of the country Bangalore garti Bombay Delhi beautiful as I was mentioning to you I am um quite close to Ari's age and which is why it hits home right because this is not something that happens to somebody else now tell me about Ari's childhood what kind of an individual was she she was special to us right she was jeel in our life she was the apple of her ey and she was born like 24th of May which is another few days few days from now in sir gangaram hospital it was a hot day and I
(10:57) remember it was Pima and my mother said you know baby's born in Pima very lucky and we must call her CH or something like that but rajes had already decided he says if I have a daughter I want to call her arushi after one very cute little patient he had and he said no if there's a girl then she has to be arushi and so that's how she was arushi but arushi was very loving and very very uh sensitive she was very bright and very intelligent she studied in DPS scholar student she was a scholar student always top of her class class and school was
(11:32) easy for her it was not like and she loved going to school she loved studying and you were in DPS as you were telling me some time ago and you know there are always these Monday tests in DPS so but she was Saturday Sunday she was was prepared she was not waiting to she was not going to waste her Saturday Sunday studying for the Monday test will be over by Friday and you know so that she's free she used to call it a called it being a baby's doctor but I'm I guess it's being a pediatrician but she always said I want
(12:03) to be famous like my Dadu Raj's father's famous cardiothoracic surgeon of the country he always wanted to do that so life revolved around our daughter and everything we did was for her and because of her we thought of buying or we actually bought one place another flat in NOA with the idea in mind that rajish would say that she might need to go and study abroad and we might need the money to do so so we had that she was brought up by her grand Grand parents my parents because we were working of course and she took care of
(12:34) every day from school and now she would go to her grandparents house and so she was pampered and doted upon and all her demands were met but uh she was like one grandparents little apple of the eye Apple of the eye also and I think she lived life Kings size kinds you know she was she loved her friends and very emotional but very emotional and sensitive at that young age she was reading some very uh serious books about tragedies women go through in Iraq and Iran and you know things like that I remember once she said just before all
(13:07) this happened and the summer holidays to come she said mom dad likes to eat patas and you never make them for him because you're always restricting his diet so she used to call n her AI or a in in Maharashtra in yeah in marati in marati so say I'm going to teach a to make how to make patas because you're never ever wanting to give him patas so I said so that was the kind of thing was with with her there's one small incident which I always talk about and which always comes to my mind every time I'm thinking about
(13:38) her always actually she had this uh friend in school the friend's name was gzel so they must have been around 10 years old or 9 or 10 years old when guzzle unfortunately we lost guzel in a swimming pool accident she of course was little and probably she couldn't express it verbally but later on of our friends after arushi was no more I learned from some of our friends that they had planted a tree in school which was called the guzzled tree and every morning after I dropped arushi outside the gate she would go there first empty
(14:13) her water bottle that she carried from home onto the tree and then go to her class even if it meant reaching late for the class so that was the kind of uh sensitivity she had it's you know it's deep sensitivity at such a young age do you question God and how is is your relationship with God given what you've gone through I think we always believed in the existence of God we were never usually ritualistic though his father always said that you lead a life of honesty and truthfulness and hard work and that's all that was what kind of
(14:49) religion at that time meant to us do you question the faith initially there was a phase I think there's a disappointment there was a disappointment initially why arushi why us what did we do wrong is there a god yes why would he do this to us you know those questions there was a phase that came actually blame God you say why has why have you taken her away so when I was I read SRA every day and there's one story in that where the person one of the persons sanar he loses his son he goes to then he's getting very upset and all that so he goes he
(15:25) wants to visit Sai Baba so he goes there and he showes him out J I'm not interested in meeting you he does that two three times and he's very upset and he's very doesn't know what to do he's trying to ask other people to meet him then his wife gets a dream then fak comes to her and you know in some form and says something and then she tells that to her husband and he says this is a good sign that means he may have accepted us so he goes there again again he gets the same treatment or the wife gets a very good treatment
(15:55) finally he manages to sort of get to him and then he tells him that he says he tells the guy who's sitting with him this person thinks that I have taken his child you know he blames me he has to have faith in me and everything will be fine you know that's a story in that I mean after that he gives him the child back in the mother's womb so I did realize after that that we cannot blame God so that's whenever I think of God taking my child away so we don't know anything we don't know why these things happen we really don't know you know
(16:26) that our senses are limited mhmm we can't we can only see this much we can't see beyond we can't see what why we are here and the the very basic question of why we are here we don't know what is the reason for this whole world you don't know so the faith has to be there so that's how we developed faith and you know carried on from there even when we look at all these so-called Gods there was a very beautiful Insight that I learned of whether we look at Ram whether we look at Krishna they actually had disastrous lives right but I think
(16:59) the only difference was in the way they conducted themselves with so much stability and balance and I think you all have been an embodiment of that as I see it from the outside so from the 16th of May until uh November 2013 you know was a period where you were sort of sent to the jail how was that time period for you internally reconciling making peace with the fact because life imprisonment is not you know something that is just that oneoff thing that happens I mean you know it make someone really go crazy
(17:30) in the head so how did you reconcile with that so life imprisonment have happened in 2013 yes so before that from 2008 onwards to 2013 it was just a kind of a nightmare it was like every day there was like I was telling you running from police investigations local police CBI and then courts and court dates and trial we were imprisoned one by one one at a time during those years so those years were like a blur a world wind of things were happening actually leaving us no time to even grieve for arushi you know no space
(18:05) no time the media frenzy was in armers and every morning we would wake up to see something new in the newspaper and see something new on the TV and running around with lawyers so I think that time we we never could make peace with that or reconcile with that it was we were just kind of living in like an an autopilot and not understanding why this understanding what's going on what's happening with us why we going through this emotionally also rather maybe dead or whatever you know not able to think much one minute to another was just
(18:36) involved in that it's in 2013 when finally the Judgment happened the life sentence was pronounced and that's the time actually when the Witch Hunt also ended and know then interest was lost in US completely I felt that uh that's the time when the grief kind of took over okay that's when you started experiencing the grief because before that there was no time to even breathe 201 actually because of all this media frenzy and all that so somebody attacked me in in the in the court and Cleaver so oh you know it was a pretty serious
(19:10) thing in the sense that by the time I reached my brother thought I had gone by the time I reached the hospital and he's a doctor so he could see that you know I was unconscious and he could see there was no pulse there was no all that he thought that probably I won't survive this because a facial wound is and I had facial wounds hand wounds you know CU I tried to stop my the attack blood pressure had gone down to 6040 and they operated and you know did all that but the thing is that everything was just going
(19:38) on something that you know we we could understand what is what's going on pushing one day that kept coming the next pushing into the next day and yeah so it's only after 2013 that we that sadness the grief again you know those few five years it never even sunk in was what was happening with us the time period that you spent in the I think must have been a time of tremendous introspection reflection how was that time period for you a of course on the level of introspection and be knowing that it is life imprisonment I
(20:11) think really one lives on Hope and inside imprisonment when you m the hope is something if you lose hope then you cannot live so you have to have hope that things will become okay you know somebody will listen to it and you know you you have faith in the system and you know that somebody listen that this is wrong whatever is happening is wrong so that hope is very important so the Hope probably kept us going and uh the fact that we started a clinic there and in thees and uh both of us were running that I was for the doing the male this
(20:47) thing she was for the females and all that and we were very busy with that we would we doing that morning tonight you know I we dismantled one clinic and put that clinic in for this the machinery and for that in the jail premises and so that kept us going also that you know you when you're mentally the the problem there is the loss of your you know not being knowing what to do so if you don't have anything to do you can't you're sitting the whole day your your mind many thoughts are running all over and that is very difficult by God's grace we
(21:23) got that opportunity and I think that kept us engaged in positive man we did whatever we could for the for the people there we treated them you know because dental treatment something difficult to get inside the jail so must been a therapeutic process hugely therapeutic that kept us occupied gave us a purpose while we were there gave us some meaning to our life there we were also struggling against grief and then the struggle of surviving in jail is another thing that you spend a large part of your life time doing out there it's not
(21:58) easy it's not like suddenly you're finding your find yourself confined in four walls and even to learn how to live in a place like that something that H one starts to do you know you're living in a Barrack and then you have that becomes your home and that the people in the Barrack become your family you eat with them you share with them you share your food and your clothes and everything it's you know your you talk with them and share your life with them that's a struggle again you know to start learning how to live
(22:32) in a place like that but the the sooner you start adjusting and becoming a part of that I think it eases out a little otherwise we realize there's no point now fighting against what's happened now we are in we have to look look for a way out of this okay and it's better to go along with the flow of things adjust into that rather than you know resisting it the fact that we were working on getting relief bail which got rejected did first time then working on the equital 4 years were perhaps spent in such a manner what was your routine like
(23:06) in the jail routines are very fixed in jail you know you wake up at 5:30 then you do prayers and then there's there's a fixed very fixed times you have tea and then you have your breakfast and then you the Barrack is again closed in the afternoons you're out again in the evening you can stroll a bit or whatever and then again at 7:00 you're shut so life is tough and you spent 4 years four years doing that yeah your contact with the outside world is very limited it's twice or Thrice a week I think someone can meet you we could eat meet each
(23:38) other only once a week on a Saturday for half an hour in separate Barracks yeah yeah yeah once a week on Saturday is when you can meet your family from one side and the other side but we were fortunate we had people visiting us four years is not an easy time for people to keep visiting us yeah they were we've seen people who the visitors just drop after some time and they have no no one taking care of them no one looking after them no one visiting them so fortunately we were able to go through that then we read a lot read many books maybe some
(24:07) two 300 books because that again kept the mind busy I tried to you know read history sort of learn history you know as I'm doing a course or something so I got a book and I kept reading it reading it reading it just something that you need to do something he would come and visit us and then he will give us his little tasks to do okay gratitude diary okay you know so now when I look back I think all of that helped that time I may have said what what am I doing why am I doing this you know but now I look back
(24:37) and I think that helped he said every morning I want you to write three four things about what you're thankful for so we been started doing that on a regular basis despite being there uh yeah at times you actually have to think about what you want to write but we did that help three people every day smile at five people make someone smile you know Small Things uh uh eventually you know which he does still did okay which he does still did but I think all that uh sustained us through all this this difficult time and like he said the Hope was there
(25:13) we were always hoping and praying for this to happen also you spoke about reading the bhagat Gita did you become spiritual post the incident or were you always inclined towards spirituality I was always uh you know not not a person who would go to Temple a lot and things like that but spiritual yes my thought process was about why we are here okay it was always like that did it intensify in the jail period yeah because you've gone through so much then you you're thinking only about that so that's how I wrote All That poetry and all that you
(25:43) know about life in general about what has happened about how to survive about you know things like that not that intensely spiritual but yes I used to think about it a lot even when I was in college okay but spirituality I think has been for us both a big uh a pillar through which we climbed out of this holding on to spirituality don't think it was possible otherwise one of another person dran Singh was no more now he was like a guru to me he was surgeon my father's uh contemporary so we just got hold of his
(26:17) words when we came out you know came a visit us in the clinic yeah in the clinic he came and visited us used to come regularly he said that you know now from here you can either go down yeah yes or you can go up so I will not I don't want I don't see go down so he would call me every every few days you know one or two days how are the patients patients are coming what are you doing I've said so and so I've done this you know things like that so that was again a very big help cuz then some coming from somebody like him I also
(26:51) considered my Guru yes yes it was a big inspiration he was a very spiritual man did you take to meditation yoga and I'll you know very quickly tell you why uh I ask this question to you know the non-spiritual is so to say so people tell me why did I take to spirituality early in my life I'm into it fulltime it's 26 because as a child I remember I was 12 years of age when my father you know lost his mother and um he used to do the meditations and the sadhana and that that incident really stuck to me because I remember the way my father
(27:26) tackled grief and T death with a lot of stability and Grace if I will Vis his let's say cousins siblings and that always stayed on and it was much later when I got into sadhana and meditation myself I think somewhat maintained that distance between the outside and myself and I feel that somewhere that alleviates suffering it sort of makes life slightly effortless if you will so did you ever explore those Dimensions not so much yoga and meditation but I have taken a lot of peace from the kyans in the gwara the shabads they've given me immense
(28:06) peace and you know feeling of lightness in times when I've experienced arushi also there okay that has been for me one place where I've uh been able to connect spiritual level con yeah connect at that level talking about arushi do you experience her presence have you felt her communicate or have you tried to communicate again this is you know was kind of a story you know when we were inside so and no will explain that much better what happened so in two I think was 2014 after we went in so arushi has a very close friend
(28:44) withi they were like sisters they were inseparable even todayi and vidushi is constantly thinking of arushi so she came and visited us with her mother and she carried a book with her and she told us that she said I was just she'd gone to home bookstore in NOA and she said I just randomly picked up a book off the bookshelf she says I kind of looked at the back and but I don't know much about what's in the book and the book was called Sounds of Silence okay she came and left it with us and she they went away I read it and
(29:22) then he read it it's written by Nan Omer so Nan had lost her son in 1979 he was a the mahalakshmi race course in Mumbai and he was a national level jockey inan jockey so then in her times of grief and while she was searching for answers she turned to Auto writing she connected with car ever since for years the Nan has helped people who have lost dear ones and loved ones and help them to connect and you know get messages from there so that was strange to have gotten that book that that time but then incidentally uhi
(29:58) emailed Nan it seems and said that I've lost my best friend and I'm very sad so Nan said okay then ask her then she said I have connected with arushi is connected with car and she's sending a message to her parents that she's happy she's very happy she's very busy and uh she wants her parents to be at Mom Dad be in peace then she sent instructions as to how rajes should start to Auto write which I think he's doing till date still doing it m so many beautiful messages of arushi used to come through that and when we were waiting for the
(30:33) Judgment the Judgment was like reserved for some 10 months or whatever 11 month till octo January to October it got reserved so those were very stressful 10 months of what will happen yeah now so that was a big strength of support and strength for us and hope for us because we would look at the auto writing and one thing which kept coming each time was Mom and Dad everything is going to be fine so we took a lot of Courage from that so that's one way we connect tried connecting with her as he was telling you outside that past life therapy also
(31:05) we attempted but which kind of didn't work out well for us and then the first time I had got while we waiting for the Judgment I had got interim bail for my mother's operation or she was unwell for for 3 weeks I came out the next morning Reiki G took and his wife and family they took me to se Gan gwara that's the first time I had gone to to sear ever and I was listening to kyans I was not I had started becoming understanding some Kon by then I was not very well worse because while you're in jail you're not going to hear any K you're to read it so
(31:40) I was listening to this one Shabad which I connected very deeply with it's like it's a prayer a mother's prayer for her child that may you always be with God and never forget him even for an instant m that moment I suddenly felt hugely arushi around me you know I felt that she's there and she's come on she's sitting on my lap and she's hugging me and presence which I felt then is I've never felt that again such intense presence but that was a very very huge moment so we have felt her coming to us at many times and I think lot of dreams
(32:20) also yeah lot of times you know actually sometimes so vivid that I actually thought that I don't want to get up m you know that's I'm with her and you know I'm hugging her sometimes she's young sometimes she's older okay sometimes very young so vivid that you feel that you know that is true and this is not true it's actually as Vivid as that when you get up and you want to you know suddenly feel that uh you are in a different place so yeah that happens M once in a while M you mentioned you got close to a a child in the jail and she
(32:57) reminded Ed you a lot of arushi can you tell me a little bit about that yes so um there is this young girl Priyanka is her name they call it fata fata is a space in which you are allotted to sleep on on the floor so so fata was next to mine when I reached there she's now probably 35 or 36 so we're talking of that time she kind of just took me under her wing for me that place was of course like I was telling you just just too hard in to deal with you know the noise the language the hardships you know it'll be
(33:35) hot it'll be too cold you know all those problems that physical problems that are there of course you overcome them over a period of time but she took me under a wing and she cared for me she would make sure I would eat something I would get something to eat she would listen to me and she would help me with small things out there the restroom and things which are for us you know at times it's very difficult to use all that and uh clean things for me and help things you know and she became very attached to me and
(34:06) then she always looked out at you know looked out for me she would always say someone is going to come into your life I feel who's going to take you out of this and she would always say that and I said who's going to come and take us out of this you know I don't think anyone's going to do that but uh she was a big big support those four years M that we there she's still there with us still she lives in jur but she's a big part of our life did you experience a greater sense of inclusivity in the jail in terms of
(34:38) acceptance acceptance for us or for yes for you acceptance of the situation like the public yeah like the public perception outside was I think very dichotomized but inside the jail was get a sense of apnap absolutely and and even for me just like talking about prianka there's called om who uh he used to help me in the clinic also and he was he would just look after me completely you know like a like a son and he still does that I mean he's available whenever I call him he'll just appear you know and out there I think it was people believed
(35:17) in you a little more they believed in in us it was not like outside it was quite a contrast to they were more respectful more believing they trusted does more outside you know just before the Judgment happened it was so hard for us to move around and do anything at times when we even went to alad and traveled by train or took the flight we had to we would hide under gaps and cover our face and things like that because public perception was so I mean it's uncomfortable if somebody stares at you sure or so you don't want
(35:51) to be stared at and Whispers And you know things like that but uh there things were different they were accepting to us they were trusting us they had faith in us and they believed in US hugely that was quite opposite of what we were experience outside it sounds like sadh to me the entire jail time it's quite like living in the asham except you not doing it out of choice yeah but I'm sure the experience after all of this would have like in spirituality when we put ourselves you know out of choice through these kind of periods obviously not as
(36:24) long as this we become a more malleable and a flexible individual did you also experience that sense of lightness within yourself that you've become more flexible as a human being not so now and right yeah not so rigid and we all right with everything acceptance of accept acceptances yeah I believe that I got the gift of gurbani in jail so that's a gift I got from there when Reiki said that I want you to he would send sh somebody would visit and he would send sheets of shabads for me then he said one thing I want to do I want you to
(36:57) learn to read these in guki now sitting inside jail how is one supposed to ever learn guki see once he sent a sheet of simple guki letters he says join them and try to read them in translations or you don't have access to any kind of tools to learn anything and coincidently there was I was struggling one day and she says I said and she happened to be from gaspur in Punjab so she said I can teach you so then she would sit with me and then she carried a book for me and that's how I learned the language you learned the language so I learned a new
(37:35) language she can read Punjabi being a maharan being a maharan so 2017 I think the Judgment came were you prepared for it what was it like in your experience not prepared for the Judgment at all in the sense that I we were I think very very nervous the Judgment was in the afternoon 2:00 and there was no access to know what's happening there was nowh news was coming in we had such butterflies and we couldn't talk to each other also and 2:00 the Judgment came in and some the Jailer sent in somebody to tell us that we both were acquitted M so
(38:10) that was such a unbelievable I mean I kind of I don't know what yeah that you it was quite you know all kinds of thoughts come to your mind when something like this has to happen and it's a very difficult situation it's your life depends on it so yes so when you get that kind of you know news then it's something that is makes you feel absolutely I can't express the feeling that you know you at least this one Injustice is over but you feel at that time that there is someone who's taken care of us a higher power
(38:43) the Divine being something has happened this was not expected I don't think anybody expected that we' ever get out not because of what the case was but but you had hope right yes we maintained hope but because of what was surrounding it the negativity around it and the media Frenzy that happened but most people thought this was even some points we also believe thought that this would never ever happen would we even get out from here you know something that used to come to our mind but then we knew that someone had worked a miracle for us
(39:10) somewhere we were thankful for that at that time and 16th October 2017 we came out 4 days later and there was also that Shabbat right the about Mr Reiki said yeah about uh Shabbat said something about your release or something what was that Shabbat huh I don't remember exact Shabbat but he had gone to few months before H hukum Nama gone to himun okay so it gotten a hukum Nama which was about band so he said have faith this will happen now when he came back from there he said on the you will be or this is called band Divas also we will go to
(39:48) Golden Temple okay so October 16th we are out so we October 17th we are in harand and that is B Divas we were there which is also Diwali you know it's why it's called bandor Divas is because the sixth Guru Guru har Goin was released with 52 Kings from the Gia Fort where he was imprisoned so it was on that day we were there so all this makes us feel that there is some Divine hand and some Divine being that has taken care of all this and this has happened there's no denying that how was it getting back into the public space
(40:22) after 4 years was it difficult was it easy did you see a change in people's perception the difficult part I started my work immediately so the difficult part was coming back into your work is difficult because you you know you've been away from some procedures for quite a long time coming back and doing them so a couple of my friends you know one of them from NOA Dr bunel he helped me a lot they used to come and you know I should ask them what's going on nowadays how do I get back to what is the procedure for this and you know
(40:51) sometimes they would actually come and do it with me okay so all that helped you know the patients very accept in very very accepting I mean it just took a little while because people were initially they were they didn't come because they thought I won't be practicing you know okay so anybody would even come after 6 to8 months they would say you know they would call up and so it took a little while because of that but once it started then everybody started coming and they were very supportive and you know sometime just to
(41:21) meet me not even for treatment just to meet me so that helped and public perception is also I think now changed largely okay there are people who recognize us still but the interactions are positive okay mostly people would say that we are sorry for what happened does that bother you no positive interaction doesn't bother us not the positive the association no not so much now I think if somebody looks at us recognizes us and says something yes it's better that is better than not saying anything yes there was a time you
(41:55) know that time when even going to buy even by to go to a subala was difficult you know people would nud each other and Whisper and judge us and you know stare at us which was that was the very difficult time that time we were not going out we were not able to do anything we were hardly able to function normally these interactions are they they're okay they're good in fact they make you realize that there are people who think about you well the media frenzy however has been insane right absolutely in my uh observation I
(42:27) haven't seen a bigger frenzy than this I remember watching that footage when um you all were released and you were getting back home to Noida to your parents place and the cameras were following you you were huddled and they were following you and there was no reaction from your side how did you deal with all that the intrusion because it's not easy I don't think we ever were able to deal with that media friend did it frustrate you at that many times most of the times yes you just have to go through it I mean it
(42:55) was like I was saying it was like a which at the courtroom is we were like kind of lynched many times you know cameras and things like that it was too horrible and there's nothing we could do about it there was no way to deal with it we just and you couldn't react you couldn't react you couldn't do anything it was just a very difficult one and then again like I was saying we were so private I don't think then this was sudden exposure into the limel for people most people are private private live their own life you know and
(43:26) suddenly we thrown into this kind of Limelight for for no good reason at all that was a very tough one if you had to give advice to grieving parents and uh through all these years that I've lived post the incident you know you keep hearing of cases right um in fact I'm in the defense circuit so we get to hear a lot of that you know that space Also experiences a lot of this what advice would you have to give to grieving parents in our experience when such a loss happens the first thing we do is look around and say why only us yes why
(44:01) why are we suffering why have we lost our child when You Face such a loss it it's very important or it would be good to reach out to other parents who have gone through the same laws we did that also we reached out to some parents who had lost their children Soma's parent vishan natan's parents and there some others also okay and now other parents do that with us then when you're able to talk of the loss you're able to share the loss and your emotions and I think you form a connection which is very helpful I think
(44:32) I you feel that you're not alone you're not alone in this otherwise it's important to have and in fact I did search for some support groups and things which I didn't find okay in India we didn't weren't able to find I didn't know about this there's no support group for this I don't think there's any support group they weren't at that time but now we don't know we have spirituality and all that so people are more you know tend to deal with this alone sort of meeting of course we have met a few people who have you know lost
(44:59) their child and then they have come and they wanted to talk to us and but there's nothing where where you can actually go to and somebody will guide you and you know you don't want to go to a psychologist you want to go to a group of people who are undergoing the same tragedy or the same kind of you know unhappiness so that is difficult to find here there are support groups worldwide but not in India I'm calling it The Lightning round so very quickly I'd like to know from the both of you okay purpose in life I think do Sava do your
(45:29) work properly and uh just have a you know like I I can give a longer you know that because thing is that there is no joy left you know in life by Joy I mean somebody like whenever we used to go earlier outside for example we going on a CH t look forward to going some vacation or she's holidays we going to go out it was like you know it was a real time and you look forward to that that Joy is not there even if somebody tells us come there do that you want to go there but you don't you know always thinking she was with us then this would
(45:58) have happened and that would you don't enjoy that so that Joy is not there so just live your life I guess do SAA where you can can do some kindness help people and do your work you know to order to sustain yourself that's it does suffering get better with time does it reduce does it doesn't it get time doesn't heal it doesn't heal not in this kind of thing okay it doesn't heal but then you have to try to heal it okay actively okay you can live with it it heals so much that you can live with it but it doesn't heal it's not like a
(46:31) parent this I think this kind of loss will stay till we are alive with us this loss that feeling of loss is not going to go it's not like like I said it's not like a parent parents loss is something that sure over a period of time you become or a spouse you become you know that this was happened now or later but this is something you it's not something that you can get over because everything keeps you know for example our his friends getting married having children this everything you keep you're you're only thinking of what could have been
(47:00) yes one coping mechanism that helped you with suffering anyone I think it was SAA okay reaching out to people still reaching out service absolutely okay gratitude that's one unique way I think it gives you some kind of relief and mental peace and relief okay when you can help somebody that's okay how has grief and pain evolved you as human beings I think we living in more spiritual awareness now okay living with more awareness of Life M more consciously probably learning to be resilient and be more resilient and accepting of things also I
(47:42) think no no fear of death Fe yeah none none now it's vanished and both of us feel the same way there could be fear of pain but there's no fear of death as as such you know do you ever think of life after death yeah you do and you know that's that's why I do auto writing and all that so definitely something is there and which is what we've read in the scriptures and spoken to so me spiritual people and all that but then there is no it's not in black and white there's not it's not written that this is what is going to happen so you
(48:11) believe in it but you don't know what it is so I think now we're also not rushing over materialism okay rushing into things and rushing generally content with what we have and with the Comforts we have peaceful with that now M so what are some of the things that you treasure most now I think at the moment of being with each other and having each other in our life is been very important I don't think we could have survived it without each other how has your relationship as a couple evolved it's okay I mean uh
(48:43) both of us have gone through we couldn't possibly have done this without each other yes you know if the support was with each other was quite tremendous you know it was we are very dependent upon each other now for our emotional needs wrote a poem about that as well okay 25th anniversary was 2014 when we inside so he wrote poem at that time Ari's 30th birthday is coming up right few days from today what do you typically do on her birthday anything special yeah so we have this Kiran and lunger program at the gurug Grans Vidya
(49:17) ker it's in chhatarpur it's like a place a home away from sick boys who are less privileged so it's educational as well as a place for them to stay M so they all these young boys there we usually do K and we do ler out there for them but this year we have also started what is what we will be calling the arushi oral health clinic there okay so they have a medical dispensary so now they will have a dental clinic so we'll be inaugurating it on the 24th of May this okay for the 24th of May but in on the 1st of June at
(49:51) one point in 2009 we had started Ari's Legacy it was one one attempt at um a part of our you know how we were dealing with things we thought we could help people through that initially it was hard to take off because it was it was everything else was just too consuming for us a trial and things like that happening but again now we've started doing some work under it okay so we do blood donation camps usually around the 15 16th May and then we have the Kiran ler that time this time they will be the clinic the Legacy has also started
(50:23) providing legal help legal aid to some imprisoned women so we got Bail for some there are some few girls who were victims of domestic abuse and domestic violence so we've taken on given them legal help even provided better qualification educations to empower them so this is what started at that time and didn't kind of take off is now is a part of our life now it's an important part of our life I mean I would just like that Ari's name should be taken with digity you and her memory needs to carry on with one aim that I have what are you
(51:04) looking forward in life now I think just to live a life of Qui dignity with our loved ones and in memory of our dear daughter arushi I just hope to change someone's life yes bring service bring a change somewhere ultimately I think it all comes down to that there's anything you'd like to say to people to viewers anything yeah this is probably the first time we've ever had a chance of talking to somebody about our life now our life generally it's always been about the case and things like that what we have gone through and what so we're very
(51:41) thankful to youa for giving us this chance because not too many people are interested in this this part of our life this is where life is now for us you it's gone onto a completely different level I think it's a very difficult Journey you said what are you looking forward to so it's just it's just very difficult I know it's one thing is like no said to help somebody and do that but you're always you know when when arushi was there I was always looking forward to something about her always you know whether it's the class
(52:12) results or something then she'll get married and then she'll do this and then she she'll this and then you know it was just that was our basic existence so used now that is not there so when you don't have that then becomes very difficult to motivate yourself for anything so motivation is sa but it is something you have to really motivate yourself for because you do look at others and you do look at you know you want that too but you don't have it and daughters always have a special bonds with the father yeah remember she always
(52:40) used to want to become a doctor and then so just a few days before this happened and she her economics teacher was my patient okay and she came to me and she said that you know why don't she's very bright why don't you send her to London School of Economics I said yeah definitely we'll send her there if she's if she wants to do that so I told her that you know I came home and I said are she your teacher met me today what did she say she said you go to London School of Economics yeah okay I can look at that also you know so there was that thing
(53:09) about it was not as if you just wanted her to become a doctor anything that she wanted to do I would have supported her in that supported her in that and you missed that you missed that part you miss a life with with her we miss that life theya and everything else spirituality is a way of coping with it but we really actually miss that life and wish it would come back at some point you know back there you were telling me about the Gita it says that you come here for an experience this is something maybe we had to experience I had to experience
(53:41) this life and what is there to unfold you know you all had to experience this life what is your takeaway from from this understanding that is I think the whole concept of Hokum also okay that your life has been given to you you know you when when you pass from here then you go to a place where they will tell you that this is what you did and then and this is what you will need to experience and you take your what do you want to do what do you want to experience so you say you want to experience that and then you come back
(54:11) for it so this is something which you have to actually believe in either you believe in it or you don't believe in it you know so if you come back to believe in it and you want to experience that and take a learning from there and the learning for us would be SAA you know gratitude patience all those things you know so which maybe some people don't learn even at the End by the end of their life yes so that's a takeaway that's something which we have to learn and that is what we were born for yes maybe we were not born for raising a
(54:40) child and looking at how she's developing and what she's doing you we are missing that that a lot but that's that's the hookum so I understand acceptance yes is at the end of it it is acceptance right absolutely and acceptance also we realize is not just simply accepting things from a position of Peace yes which is not probably there completely but uh yes it's a tough one it's difficult and I'm sure it's difficult for every parent who goes through this kind of thing people don't talk about it yes but uh it must be very
(55:18) difficult ideally I think they should talk about it if some people can talk about it with each other then they will understand how the other person is and that would help them to cope with it you can't change you know anything so you have to learn to cope with it thank you so much for this conversation I can't thank you enough and thank you for trusting me with this conversation for having us here us to talk about all this not at all I mean thank you thank you it's been a pleasure I think you've written a poem on that
(55:49) you want to yeah please please read that out because you know we read he wrote a lot of poetry in while imprisoned maybe I remember reading one poetry by you I think in one of the videos Tinka you read it sure that's difficult to read something yeah that's okay so uh he he's called it an allergic words for my beloved daughter H it goes your memory flits across my mind eyes well up with tears we will stand where we were dear aru when you suddenly left us in tears the mind gets clouded with inordinate grief why did fate choose you
(56:35) for all this is what I have asked all these years how I wish you could be here for us to hear your voice to feel and hug you as before for you to call us Mom and Daddy dear it's impossible to believe that that day was the last when we gave you your gift and your face lit up with joy and happiness it was a hean time that glow in your face I always wanted to see to see you happy always forever now I dissemble my feelings I can't cry all the time it's impossible to explain the longing in the heart for someone so dear it's impossible to Bear
(57:14) my care W eyes are looking for you everywhere all the time for me your presence is ubiquitous even though I don't see you not a moment when you are not in my mind memories and thoughts of you for 14 years of togetherness and love you will forever be a part of our lives a father's care a mother's love she had a plentitude of everything yet we could never prent what was ordained for her to doubt the love and care of parents is a crime that should never be forgiven it's like doubting the love of God for all of humankind never give this pain to anyone
(57:52) is my enty to God it transcends everything else the wor that can happen to any human being when memory Fades and the morban time nears I know in my heart that they will be no fear I look forward I know to the journey ahead for I know I'll meet my little angel a wait of a lifetime will at last be over for now we carry on in patience and faith The Wheel of Fortune will turn visites will change Justice will be done at a watershed moment in time in case you'd like to be a part of our online and in-person yoga diet and
(58:32) spiritual programs you can join our WhatsApp group below where we post all our upcoming programs and give free tips on health diet and lifestyle [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]