Pallavi Barnwal: Sex & Intimacy, S4 Ep6

Pallavi Barnwal: Sex & Intimacy, S4 Ep6

Author Name:Soul Sutras: South Asian feminist platform

Youtube Channel Url:https://www.youtube.com/@soulsutras2436

Youtube Video URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mlrh1x1Vw_o



Transcript:
(00:06) Hi Pallavi, welcome to Masala Podcast. It is such a pleasure to have you on the show. Yeah, thank you Sangeeta. It's been a platform I've been closely following and yeah, I'm so glad that I'm on Soul Sutras and really, you know, it's a like be a part of these, you know, women community that you have created of women who speak their mind fearlessly.
(00:29) Um I've been following your work Pallavi for a quite a long time now and, you know, you do incredible things on Instagram and I've kind of watched some of your YouTube videos. Um tell me what's a nice Indian girl like you doing talking about sex? Okay. Uh yeah, I mean that's how I was brought up like, you know, I was I used to be very shy girl.
(00:55) Like I used to be so intimidated by there is a boy standing next to me. Like, you know, there has to be like a mild distance definitely. I was so, so scared of talking to I had my own like family trauma which kind of led to a low self-esteem. So went through my own uh you know, I would say bucket of life's issues. Uh and I think the good thing was that I decided to turn my struggle into an you know, a cause or an inspiration.
(01:25) Uh my personal inspiration to do something and ensure that no one else go through goes through what I went. Be it uh uh like, you know, say sexually objectified in a relationship. Like, okay, you know, am I there just for my body or, you know, my my identity matters. Am I just a body? So I used to go through all those emotions and not knowing anything further.
(01:49) So I I strongly believe in like sometimes I come across because, you know, different people have different thought processes, but I feel that uh, sexuality to me is very sacred. Uh, it is something which is not It is more than exchange of bodies. It is exchange of energies. It There are emotions or, at the very bare minimum, you know, there is safety involved or health involved.
(02:13) Like, a lot of things that get involved and we don't think of sexuality on those terms. So, yeah. Um, can we go back to something you just said about your own life kind of was a little bit difficult growing up? Are you happy to talk about that a little bit? Yeah, sure. In fact, sometimes I feel I'm very blessed to see all these, you know, like it's literally like a movie or maybe, you know, a novel where I If I look back at my life, I mean, it's a perfect food for a novel.
(02:43) So, uh, my my parent my mom had an affair and, uh, she she had an affair because she was not really happy in the marriage. And, uh, because she was dependent on my father, she could never kind of, you know, walk out or she stayed in the marriage, but, uh, the affair was not disclosed. Thereafter, like my father got to know about it after 10 years.
(03:05) Uh, you know, he's a he's into palmistry, so he was reading my mom's hand and she he just kind of made this up and said that, you know, I find that there is something that you're hiding from me from the lines of your hands. Oh my god. So, she was already under a lot of guilt. Yeah. And she thought that, you know, it's the time that, uh, she should tell him because, uh, like now they're involving, you know, all gods and divi- divine being into this.
(03:32) So, and then my father left her like, uh, not legally because she never divorced him. Mhm. Uh, but my father separated from her and, uh, he went on to have his own affair, which was a full-blown affair of like 25 years. Wow. So, and, uh, as a child, uh, I I grew up seeing all this because all of this happened when I was like eight. Mhm.
(03:54) And uh, I think one interesting thing that stood out for me is because there were so many relationships involved. You know, my mom had a relationship, my father had a relationship. I saw my father's relationship my my mom's relationship was over by the time like you know, I was it was it happened before I was born.
(04:10) But my father's relationship started when I was like seven eight after the marriage was you know, broken. And then I used to accompany my father to his visits to that you know, woman because she was also married woman and in the society you know, a man cannot be seen. So my father would take me along because that makes it more acceptable like there is a child also going.
(04:33) So I the decoy. Yeah. So I mean I now I understand why I would frequent you know, visit like why I I would be accompanying him always. So I think all of that you know, it I was not able to process it what it is that but it had a lot of impact because I had no baseline of what a healthy relationship looks like.
(04:56) It was all over like anything which was you know, what volatile. Okay, anything which is volatile, which is volcanic, which is intense, which is chemistry. I would associate everything that as a relationship and I ended up creating same relationships in my life through that you know, energy. It's basically the energy you that's the inner state of your body.
(05:17) So now I realize why I would attract all those men or why I would get attracted to all those men but it was also my inner state of turbulence. Which was not really you know, human beings had this unique ability to adapt. Like we can adapt to so many things and we can also adapt to trauma, we can adapt to toxicity. Yeah.
(05:38) That's how I think the downward spiral of relationship failures after relationship failures like so many relationship failures and thankfully I kind of And because I know so many people who are still into the throws, like they still struggle. They have no way out. I'm very glad that even after all this has happened, I was able to I came out.
(06:00) What are the some of these relationships you chose then? Do you think, now looking back? What kind of relationships are you asking? Yeah, like the you were saying you found yourself in some toxic relationships because of what you saw growing up. Are you happy to share? You don't need to get into details, but what sort of things did that make you do? You can ask me anything.
(06:23) I'm like an open book. I just love I I seriously I mean I believe in boundaries there boundaries with men, but when there is a public platform like this where I know my story can connect, I am willing to go open to any extent. This is wonderful. So, please share your relationships which were a result, as you were saying, of what you saw growing up, right? Um so, I I I had low self-esteem and I felt that relationships will give me that value.
(06:52) Yeah. Yeah. I I feel lacking in myself. Like I lack that value in being in a relationship gives me that value, gives me that completeness. So, for that, like I it would happen like I was ready to fall in love with the first man who is going to give me attention. Yeah. That is that's how desperate I was. Yeah. Like even someone meeting me, so one thing in my mind was that marriage is a way that I can escape this dysfunctional home.
(07:19) Like I had this You know, girls get married and they get go to a different home. So, one was it was my escapade. Mhm. I knew it very clearly that the only way I can escape this home is I get married to some other guy, move into his home. So, that was number one. And uh secondly, I longed for that family.
(07:39) So, I was very desperate and I remember, you know, I would give those kind of indirect cues to men also Yeah. to show my subtle interest. And knowing that there is a desperation and you know, I went to any extent. So, I I never thought in my mind it was like I would never attract a guy. Yeah. Okay. So, with that and then someone would get attracted to me and I thought okay, he's the first one, he's the last one.
(08:04) So, I'll just go and grab that man like literally, you know, profess my love. And most of these men were abusive men in terms of there was a different different types of abuse like with one it was financial abuse, with one it was like it was just about sex. The the relationship was he was only wanting sex from me.
(08:26) There was nothing other, you know, in the relationship. He would not disclose about our relationship to his friends or he would keep it very discreet and it was only only about sex. And I I was very very discontent with everything while I was into it. But the only what was what happened was because I had so less low self-worth that I couldn't find it muster the courage to walk out of it.
(08:50) And got married in a patriarchal setup like again, relationship did not work. So, I thought okay, let's just get it legally signed so that the boy doesn't leave. Because all these men left me so I thought okay, now the only way is to just go and straight away get married because then there will be a legal thing attached and he will not be able to walk away.
(09:12) Like I was so so scared of abandonment. So, I went ahead, married the first guy who liked me. Like first guy who liked me, I just got married. I thought okay, profession okay and then you know, educated. Nothing else like no discussion of compatibility. I just made up my mind that okay, if the boy is earning well, but then after the marriage I found that the family was very patriarchal.
(09:35) I stayed in the marriage for 5-6 years because again I did not have courage. I thought okay, I need this marriage for survival. I can't survive. It was only after he left country for 2 years on on a you know, different assignment out of the country that for those 2 years I I was very obese. Like I was 80 kg. Now I'm 66.
(10:00) So I I just took on food to kind of deal with that, you know, emotional trauma. So emotional comfort. The moment he left like within 15 days I lost 10 kg without doing anything. Wow. Wow. Yes. Yes, I I tell this story because and even I'm coming up with a workshop where I tell that a lot of body weight issues are because of mental health.
(10:25) We don't We don't talk about this. We talk about body positivity, but I'm saying that if you are under stress and you are gaining fat, you need to get let go of that pattern. That is what happened. I would now I understand that the moment my husband left, I was so relieved. I just lost 10 kg like and that was my sign.
(10:46) So but then again, I went into other relationships which was like, you know, abusive like financially, sexually, this this this same same thing. It's like, you know, repeat repeat repeat on the repeat mode. Yeah. Yeah. My last abandonment was like the man left me. That was when I I was I came like literally came to my knees.
(11:11) Like literally I felt that one of my friends said at Pallavi, you are growing old. I don't know if it is true, but it just hit me. So he said Pallavi, you are growing old. Right now you are in your 30s. You are going to be in your 40s in 2 or 3 years. But in your 40s you would not be able to deal with this this, you know, uh This up and down.
(11:28) Yeah. Yeah, he said that you better be vigilant and do something about it because you know, right now you still have the capacity and I could feel that I'm going somewhere I'm losing my myself. I'm losing my peace everything like I have a child. So the one of the concerns was me he can't see his mom crying and you know, staying hungry all the time which I did.
(11:52) Yeah. So then I went I went to therapist. I always believed in therapist but none of them were so like uh you know, like quackery is so so prevalent in India. Glad I found a good therapist like he's a good therapist and this is where I Yeah. start. And that's where your journey to becoming who you are today started I think wasn't it? Mhm.
(12:18) So what led you to become a sex educator? And why why do you think that's important in the world? Because you know, for me my relationships my presence in my relationship were just just limited to sex. Uh with my husband it was again a sexless marriage so there was no sex and thereafter very strong so I could see I could see the both multiple aspects of sex.
(12:46) One there was sexual objectification. Two there was uh a sexual withholding because you know, lack of emotions or lack of affection. Three um there was uh like a peak of sexuality where I also like you know, really became very sexual. Um I I went ahead and had an extramarital affair. I mean if technically I was out of that marriage where I I knew that I have I'm going to walk out of the marriage but still I had relationship while I was married legally married like you know, so you are mentally separated you're physically separated but legally you are married
(13:20) and you have an affair so you you would still call that as an extramarital affair. And I had that uh and it was very very sexually uh intense. I I really like that. So, I mean, you know, when we say that okay, women in their mid-30s or 30s, like we tend to associate sex with this, you know, 20s or honeymoon period.
(13:41) I think for me, my sexual experience really improved as I grew and I felt like, "Wow, that's such a discovery." So, you know, all three aspects could of sex, I think sex was through and through, whether the absence of it, whether the you know, objectification of it or whether the blossoming of it. I was really fascinated with this journey plus my parents relationship, which was you know, I could see that intensity.
(14:05) So, I knew the intensity that we hold, but how do we channelize it? How do we productively bring it out rather than, you know, it's kind of this taboo, creating a taboo. And like that taboo can lead to so many issues like these, you know, discrete affairs where you are just you don't know, there's no guideline. We don't have any guidelines of what is healthy, what is unhealthy around sex.
(14:33) So, yeah. And I think taboo is an is an interesting word what you just said there. With women particularly in our culture, like Asian women, Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, it's such a taboo for us to own our own sexuality. You know, even now, even 2020, whether you live in India, whether you live in the UK, for a woman like you or I to come up and talk about orgasms or pleasure or our bodies, it's still so taboo.
(15:00) And I think personally, I'm sure you you think that that sex is really really important for us, for our kind of health and our well-being. Um what sort of things do your clients bring to you when they come to you? Women, South Asian women. Yeah, yeah, many issues and you know, I mean, where do I even start like there is so much to say.
(15:28) But one thing I have seen increasingly because traditionally sex is thought of as a man's domain like you know a man is sexual and a woman is not sexual but I've seen the opposite. Opposite in marriages where women crave for sex and in the marriages and men are you know people who are not interested in sex. I mean yesterday itself I had a session where the they have a love marriage of like 15 plus years now and they have everything going good for them except for you know that man is not interested in sex at all like three months once in three months
(16:03) and then she is not in the mood because she thinks that she doesn't want this. She wants like either you do it regularly Yeah or you don't do it at all. Yeah. Yeah. Completely understand. Now the man said that you know Pallavi I will be very honest with you. I will tell you that I like her so much I because she's someone she's my high school sweetheart.
(16:23) So we have literally grown together and I love her so much I admire her so much that I cannot imagine myself to be a devil with a dick. Yeah. So that that is such a conflicted you know uh Yes. association of sexuality that sexuality is something that you can't do this to her because she's so and that's how we are brought up.
(16:46) I completely get that. So she's so pure. And she's the object of his affection and she's this kind of at on a pedestal that he can't do that to her. That's what that's what I'm getting. Is that is that what what he meant? I mean he couldn't see himself as a person who is because love making typically they show it as a lot of grabbing groping you know Yes.
(17:08) He didn't want to do all of that you know dirty action with Some something so dirty with someone he loved. Yes and I think that right there, I think epitomizes how in our culture we view sex. It's like this dirty act. It's like this aggressive thing. It's something you do, and it's an awful thing, and we don't really think about it.
(17:29) We're not taught really, in our growing up years, to think about sex as something that is part of our a healthy marriage. That sex is something that's part of our health, really, for women. You know, like sexual health. It's important. And it affects so many parts of your life. And do you find that this is normal, that I mean, I say normal, but do you find that a lot more women are wanting sex, whereas the male partners don't? Do you find that in your work? Yes, a lot. A lot.
(18:01) I've been getting I've been getting queries from men also about their wives not interested, but I think the queries from women either they outnumber men, or at least they would be equal. Definitely no lesser. Wow, that's and that's not what we're taught. We're taught that women are the ones saying, "No, no, no, I don't feel like it. I have a headache.
(18:19) " And men are the one who's like always the gung-ho. But actually, it's the other way around, right? What are the What are the issues do people bring to you as as a sex coach? What are the kind of things you come across? Um the erectile dysfunction, um you know, uh erectile difficulties of men, uh which could be age-related, which could be I mean, there it's it is so common, uh you know, erectile issues like premature ejaculation, erectile dysfunction, where you are not able to have a erection, hold an erection for an intercourse.
(18:52) And the way we have understood sexuality, it is something like it's it's the unmissible. You can't have sex without intercourse. That's how And I've been I've been looking at work of a lot of therapists, sex therapists, where we they say that, you know, intercourse can is is okay, not like, you know, it's not really the mandatory or the something indispensable.
(19:15) Like lesbians have sex. So, I totally agree, but when I shoot out this idea, I mean there's this another industry which is thriving which is saying, "Okay, you have to get an erection at any cost." I have had a woman like they are a newly married couple and I can tell you that what's I can really predict what is going to happen in their life 5 years down the line.
(19:36) So, they are a newly married couple and she said that that there is this Her husband is sitting beside her. She said, "It's for me to get an orgasm, I need a really good hard and thick erection, right?" I felt like, "Oh my god, poor guy." Because, you know, he's under so much of pressure. Exactly. Like good hard like, you know, the good hard and erection like, "Okay, I have to" and I think that's where most men are reading because they feel they have to get this good hard erection.
(20:05) Uh it is something which is not really under their control and the more they think about it, the more it can interfere with, you know, the erection. That's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what else do people come to you with? Like what are the other So, there's the lack of I guess what you said about the women wanting sex, men not wanting sex, erectile dysfunction.
(20:25) What what are the other kind of common things you come across? So, sex exploration is a a relatively a very smaller chunk of, you know, Indian uh audience as as of now because uh again, you know, most people don't uh it it is taking them time to warm up to uh you know, therapy. Mhm. Okay, like uh as in we can see uh we can see a sex coach or we can take counseling.
(20:54) Coaching, counseling, therapy are something which is very new Mhm. um in our culture. So, unless something very life uh change like, you know, it is very life altering happens. Yeah. Yeah. They don't come. So, sex exploration is something I do get queries that people have a good sex life. The people have a good sex life. Yeah. Okay.
(21:27) So, okay. So, sex exploration is something I don't get a lot of queries, you know, as of now because people actually consider therapy something of counseling or coaching. I'm a coach. So, they consider it to be something where it is the last resort. So, they don't really come when they're like, "Okay, satisfied and it's fine.
(21:51) " We really don't want We are not at that stage where we are saying, "Okay, how we can, you know, enhance or elevate our experience by taking an expert help." Though I get queries like this. I have gotten queries that people couples are having good sex life, but they say, "Okay, what more we can do?" Mhm. Majority of these are problem-oriented statements where like, you know, sexless marriages either by um choice like, you know, one person not interested or either by physicality where there could be vaginismus like the woman her vagina is too tight.
(22:24) She, you know, there is no intercourse can happen. Or and the, you know, the very weird thing what I found is most of these unconsummated marriages they come when the family is pressuring them to have kids. They have 2-year sexless marriage. Yeah. Unconsummated marriage. They could not have sex.
(22:41) And now the family is pressuring them. So, that's the hypocrisy of Indian society that we are covertly talking about, "Okay, when are when are you guys having sex?" Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or we're not even like concerned about whether they're having sex or not. It's just where are the babies? You know, like that's the So, if there are no babies, then you're like, "Okay, then why are you not having sex?" rather than anybody being interested whether And they are so ashamed.
(23:04) Like they say, "Okay, you know, now we have to tell them that we are not even having sex." Like in Yes. In the family Yeah, it has to come to that. Um do you think in Indian society attitudes towards sex have changed at all in the last kind of 10 years, maybe? Do you see a change? mean, not really at a broader scale because if you talk about, you know, our parents, no, there is no change.
(23:32) So, kids don't kind of go and say, "Okay, our parents, we can talk about sex with them." That is not happening. Yeah. Uh but at the level of millennials and Gen Z, Gen Z, yes, Gen Z and millennials, I do see a change happening uh more in Gen Z and then now there is they call it as a alpha generation, I guess.
(23:54) So, 2000 born plus. So, I see them very much interested in content. Like I know I have a lot of young audience. Like They are They are youngsters, but none of them can speak about it. Yeah. Yeah. I remember on LinkedIn uh I I also post a lot on LinkedIn, which is a professional network. And a lot of people said that, "You know, we don't Although my posts are very scientifically driven, they say we can't like our post because LinkedIn, you will get to see.
(24:20) So, your boss will get to see which post you have liked." So, they don't want anyone to know that. Yeah. Yeah. So, basically what you're saying is that while there is a change in their own internal mindset, it still doesn't feel acceptable for them to be seen talking about or consuming that content. No, absolutely.
(24:38) And I feel like but you know, from from my point of view because I've left India now what, 16 years? Like none of the people that I knew were doing the content say you're doing or any of the sex educators like Lisa Magaldas or Seema or any of these people. That's new, I think. Anybody publicly going on to public platform like YouTube or Instagram and talking about sex like you are. That's unusual.
(25:01) So, I suppose there is a change and I suppose there is a slower change. And I'm guessing that change is different in cities and in smaller towns. I suppose less and less so. Do you find that at all? Like is it different? Yeah, I mean metros are no different than smaller towns when it comes to public acceptance of sex. It's the same.
(25:20) Okay. It can be happening in close circles like you know, you may have a close intimate gathering of friends in a drawing room and you may talk about it on a couch but not on internet or not anywhere where you are to be seen. But you have seen us public. Absolutely. Um You know, talking about kind of our culture, you know, and the culture we come from.
(25:44) You talk a lot about kind of the mythology in our in our culture and old myths that are connected to sex. Can you talk a little bit about that? I know that it's something you really like to talk about. Yeah, so I mean we are you know, a religious country. Like I would say broadly speaking by and large we are a religious country. And I think that's where you actually talk about sexuality because religion has a has really relationship with sexuality.
(26:14) I mean, you know, if you see during there is a festival which is Durga Puja. It's a Hindu festival. Where they make these idols of you know, mud. And these idols are kept out like while they're being sculpted by the sculptures and these idols don't have vaginas. Like any idol any idol of a god, you look at them. You know, when you see them temples like you know, a lot of times you will see the priest and like kind of dressing them in the usual like you know, cleaning up process.
(26:46) You will see the none of the gods have their genitals. Yeah. Yeah. So, and that was a very wonderful finding. I I kind of found that okay, yeah, you you make them as a human, but you don't give that you know, what makes him a male, what makes him a female, because that's where it is like okay, creating this genital means the dog the god is Is he the male or female? It's a binary.
(27:08) 30. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Got it. Got it. Um and again, you know, coming back to culture, Kama Sutra, you know, there are so many texts like this, right? And again, you know, this perception that we have that somehow sex is not part of our culture. Like I feel like that's a misconception, because sex is very much part of our culture.
(27:29) It has been for millennia. Right? It's just that we've lost it. We've lost that connection to it. Yeah, you see so many gods have, you know, multiple wives. Like even Shiva had more than one wife. Kali was Shiva's wife. Parvati, you know, so even Krishna Krishna you you see the Lila and the Radha.
(27:52) Like I should tell them that you are worshipping someone who is an unmarried couple. And then here you are creating so many issues for couples to living together. Yes. And you are actually worshipping a god with not his wife. Yeah. His wife was Rukmini. Yeah. Rukmini is not worshipped with Krishna, but Radha is worshipped with Krishna. So even though Krishna had a legal wife, she is not So that's such a irony.
(28:14) Like, you know, when you question and people have no answers, because it's like more like a blind faith. Absolutely. Um You know, with the couples who come to you or people who come to you, have there been any stories that have stood out for you? Like that's really helped you or inspired you? You know, it's like your work, how that's changed people.
(28:37) Yeah, I mean, I also happen to get a testimonial from this client of mine and she said So she was again grew up with very iconoclastic values on sexuality. Like, okay, it's dirty, it's shameful. Uh parents were very discreet about their own life. She has no idea of her parents' sex life.
(28:57) Like most kids most clients I ask them that okay what is about So, they're like they're looking at me as like I'm talking turkey. Like, you know, I say, "Yeah, you are living in the same house. I mean, if your parents have a intimate relationship, you have no idea." So, see, that's so disconnected. Like two adults staying in the home and we have no idea about okay, they could have something like that.
(29:17) And uh uh she also grew grew up with similar values of uh you know, shameful sexuality. And her husband uh they had a sexless marriage on and off. Like 2 years of sexless marriage and one, you know, off incident where she would just do it more like a duty. So, that is also we see in the culture is like the duty sex.
(29:35) Yes. And her husband did not like it. In fact, one of my clients uh even said that, you know, I it feels like I'm raping my wife. Because she just lies there is still. Nothing. She says So, she even though the consent is there because she thinks, "Okay, it's his need." But he doesn't like it. He wants her to be involved.
(29:54) Yeah. So, uh she came to me and uh we talked about movies. There are certain movies uh way back in '80s like I I talk about um there is this movie called Paroma by Aparna Sen. She's a Bengali filmmaker, very bold and, you know, I'm so glad. So, there is one movie of Aparna Sen. I don't remember the name of the movie, but I will tell you the scene.
(30:18) So, the scene is she is having sex with her lover. Aparna Sen. So, she's the actress also. And she's a director also. So, she's having sex with her lover. The lover is outside marriage. And the hus- the the child is basically playing there out in the play garden. And she's on the top floor.
(30:37) So, the child is like, you know, wanting her she the child is calling her. Like, "Ma, Ma." You know, the child is 7-8 year old, and she's having that orgasm. She's like She's actually saying here and there like what should I do, but she continues to kind of enjoy that. Wonderful. That's so good. And they have shown this in like late '80s or early '90s.
(30:57) That's the movie like the actually it's a scene like where you know that they are showing no not nudity but the the partner is thrusting like he's like moving. She and she's also one part of her is like listening to the child's, you know, call that okay he's calling his mom. He's a very small child and then here she's enjoying and she just goes she decides to be here.
(31:19) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now that's wonderful, isn't it? And did that help your your the person who you were working with? So I I shared some of these movies because they have seen the only imagery of sex is around porn, so they don't know that okay human emotions mom or I think uh So yes. Wonderful. Tell me Pallavi, how has this work? So you obviously work with a lot of couples and a lot of people and you've helped I'm sure a lot of people in navigating their sexuality and sex life.
(31:55) How has this work changed you? Okay, uh that's a good question. Um so I think I I also believe that the the the way, you know, we have been brought up what I've been in the best of the best cases people have so much of baggage uh about, you know, what they have grown up in their childhood because families are not really functional in the ideal sense, you know, you I I've seen people who are who have grown pampered and that also serves as a blockage because, you know, they are not able to accommodate because they've been
(32:33) pampered so much, spoiled so much. So for me personally uh I still I'm still learning the ropes. Like, one thing I have really worked on is my boundaries because to understand that sex, you know, sexuality doesn't mean that it's it doesn't mean reckless sleeping. Okay? Being sexually empowered doesn't mean that you have a score or you just hit on a list like, okay, uh today it's with this person.
(32:58) I'm not judging, but I'm saying that uh for me, sexual empowerment has a different meaning and I think that should be a common meaning by saying that it is not linked to a number. You being sexually empowered has nothing to do with the number of partners you have. Because there was a time when I actually thought it's that.
(33:16) Like, if I have the power, I can have sex with anyone anytime, you know? Now, I realize that it's also about value. Sexuality has so much into it, pleasure, values, uh consent, uh health, you know? So, I think on that level, I have really evolved intellectual, like in can sexual sexuality be intellectualized? It has always been physicalized, like, you know? So, I think that intellectualization of sexuality is very very uh I have really found myself so sexual even when I'm sitting in a mid of a concert just enjoying that music and
(33:48) it turned me on and there's this guy sitting next to me and that, you know, uh chemistry, uh that uh tension, I would just enjoy and I would hold on to that. Like, that holding on is so so powerful rather than just, you know, sometimes letting it go and do it. So, we don't understand those layers of sexuality, like, you know, uh it is not just you do it.
(34:11) It's not a set of things. It's a place to be. Absolutely. And that's so beautifully said, I think. Because I think what I find, and I think you touched upon this at the beginning of our conversation, that sex isn't something you just do in the body. It's beyond that. Isn't it? It's kind of to do with our spirit. It's to do with our soul.
(34:35) It's to do with I don't know, you know, a lot more than just a physical thing, I think. Yeah. Um What's next for you, Pallavi? What are you up to next in terms of work? So, I'm finishing touches on my toxic relationship overcome how to overcome and recover from a toxic relationship. And I have got a very good reception. You know, like everyone is saying like oh, this is so common.
(35:08) Oh, I I I would be interested like this is something which is so relatable. So, I'm working on this online course and I've also launched a offline workshop on art of intimacy. Um in Delhi where you know, we are calling a group of people and we will be talking experiencing intimacy on different levels like sensuality. There is no sexuality sensuality spirituality.
(35:33) Um emotionality. So, on all those levels we we are trying to create a you know, experience around intimacy. So, just to kind of normalize these topics in a very dignified and graceful way. That dignity grace and refinement is so needed for this subject. That is my Yeah. Sounds wonderful and I can't wait to to see and hear about all the amazing work I'm sure you're going to do in the coming year months and years.
(36:04) It's been such a pleasure speaking to you, Pallavi. Thank you for being on Masala Podcast. Um Thank you, Sangeeta.