The Wisdom of Neem Karoli Baba: Bhakti, Surrender & Mystical Experiences

The Wisdom of Neem Karoli Baba: Bhakti, Surrender & Mystical Experiences

Author Name:Best Of TRS | English

Youtube Channel Url:https://www.youtube.com/@bestoftrs

Youtube Video URL:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FWKBgbRF20



Transcript:
(00:00) Are you aware of how many people's lives you've shaken up through your voice? >> Thankfully, [music] no. [laughter] How does it feel coming back to India? >> India is my home. I've experienced that connection. [music] That was the presence of my guru. >> I don't even know where to begin this topic about Maharaji or Nimoli Baba.
(00:38) But there's a Han Morti to your left. Do you see them as one and the same? >> Ram Kasi, [music] the breath of Ram. >> Do you know who Virat Kohli is? So >> I heard about him. [laughter] >> He's your version of Michael [music] Jordan. >> And have you discussed Nim Karoli Baba with them? >> Mhm. >> So far the last [music] time I saw Maharaji physically was in Bindama.
(00:59) Send him back to America. So I get a letter this morning. Maharaji came out of his room and he said where's Krishna [music] Das? He like threw a fit. So my friend said you can come back now. Instead of going back right away which [music] was the biggest mistake I ever made. The first chance I got, I betrayed the only real love I had ever felt.
(01:17) >> Can you [music] take us through pain of his loss? >> He left the body in September. I had built a wall around my heart and I would not let myself feel him. I got addicted to drugs. It threw me into a depression and a lot of very self-destructive behavior for many, many, many years. After some days, I get to Kenchi.
(01:40) It was so horrible. I went to where Maharaj used to sit. When I walked in that room, I got hit with a lightning bolt right here and in that instant I saw it. >> Do you think Maharaji was simulating a bit of a psychedelic experience for you so that you completely [music] let go? >> It was beyond psychedelic experience.
(01:57) I've had psychedelic experiences. >> What psychedelic experiences have you had? [music] Krishna Das is one of those music artists whose art has affected people's hearts and spiritual journeys. That's not something that every music artist can say. Lots of people know Krishna Das's story. Lots of people don't.
(02:23) If you're someone who enjoys deep conversations about life, if you enjoy learning about unique life stories, you'll enjoy this conversation. If you're someone who's enjoyed Krishna Das's music and wish to know more about his soul, you'll enjoy this conversation. And if you're someone who wants to learn more about Neim Karoli Baba and the mysticism that exists within in India, you will enjoy this conversation.
(02:48) It features Krishna Das on TRS. [music] [music] Such an honor speaking to Krishna Das sir. >> Thank you. >> How are you? >> Tick tock. [laughter] >> How does it feel coming back to India? >> I always it always feels like I've left India. You know India is my home. Uh the first time I got off the plane was in Mumbai in 1970. you had to walk down the the the the tarmac to the the the the terminal. When
(03:35) my foot hit the ground, I went, I'm [snorts] home. And then I realized I never had that feeling before, ever, anywhere. Even in the house I grew up in, I felt home. So, it's always been like that for me. Uh and in those days, I thought I would stay here forever. That was my I gave everything away.
(04:00) I I planned I didn't tell my parents, but [snorts] I was never going back to the West. >> You're 77 today? >> I'm 77. Yeah. >> Did you ever visualize your 70s back then at all? I >> I didn't couldn't visualize the next day back then. [laughter] >> Why though? Why why couldn't you visualize the next day? Because in those days there was a lot of suffering a lot of unhappiness before India you know before I came before I met Ramdas before I met Maharaji there was a tremendous longing in my heart that was couldn't find peace you know no matter what I did it
(04:41) couldn't quiet that longing I couldn't calm that longing and it was pushing me around you know to do a lot of things that were not successful like they didn't help me. It was only after I met Ramdas in in 1968 after he had come back from India the first time that I experienced that connection that has never changed from that moment to this and that was the presence of my guru >> Nim Karoli Baba >> G >> okay I don't even know where to begin this topic about Maharaj or Nim Karoli Baba but there's a Han Morti to your left Um, do you see them as one and the
(05:28) same? Because for a lot of Indians, we see it that way. >> Sure, I understand. And the the short answer is yes. The long answer is a little bit more complicated because we don't know, we can't know who and what Hanuman really is. You know, Maharaj used to look at the Hanuman Bandi, he would say. You know, in Pahari, he was they say Hanuman's a monkey. And he would laugh.
(05:56) He said, "Who is Hanuman?" And we give all the regular answers, the perfect servant, the great, the breath of Ram. What does that mean? We don't know what Ram really is. So, how can we know what it means? The breath of Ram. But breath means life, connection, energy, [clears throat] transmission, right? these things we really don't understand and it's good to understand that we don't understand because that opens us up to receiving you know something real.
(06:36) Normally we're you know chopping things up and fitting them in categories. So that was the thing about Maraji being with him [snorts] all you could do was be in awe. There was no way of grasping what was really in front of you. It was just too extraordinary. You know, >> you know, there's a lot of people in our office, um, lots of people in this room included, who are in awe of the fact that you're with us today because in so many ways, uh, many of us here in India feel that we receive Nim Karoli Baba's blessings through your
(07:15) music and your voice. >> Well, I can't argue with you [laughter] because I also feel the same way. I also feel his blessings when I sing. That's why it's my main practice. That's why it's the thing I like to do the most because I get to immerse myself more deeply in that presence at this at that time. And really, he comes through.
(07:44) He [snorts] he created this whole leela. I I'm just a puppet. I'll tell you in 1972 he built a new temple to Dura Vindyasani Dura in the courtyard in Kenchi and they brought in a pujari. After a few days they caught him stealing the money from the box, right? Gave him some rupees and brought in a second one.
(08:10) Caught him stealing the money from the box. Gave him some rupees and sent him home. Brought in a third one. caught him stealing some money. So the temple the guys who ran the temple they came Baba we can't find a pujari that won't steal. What will we do? Mahar goes my pujari won't steal. Your pujari who's that Krishna does. So I was summoned from the back of the temple where the westerners spent most of their time banished to inner darkness and I was asked to sit out there and be the pujari and distribute the chanam.
(08:48) Many years later, Siddima who was Maharaji's great disciple, she said that when Maharaji made me the pujari and asked me to distribute the chaam in 1972, he created this whole leela and I'm still distributing the chanam in the form of the name. Did he ask me? Did he say he was going to do that? No. He just siddhas.
(09:22) This is what they do. They just do and then you live through it. How do you explain the word siddhas to someone who doesn't know what that means? >> Well, siddha itself has many different meanings. In this case, I'm meaning a a perfect being a a realized being. Siddhis are little are powers and you people can do all kinds of things.
(09:44) But a siddha is a person who actually a being who is so at one with the universe that everything they do their only motivation is compassion for us and to help us recognize our own the love that lives within us. That's their only job is to bring us into that oneness. So that's what a Siddha is. And they have the ability to change things just like a a movie director can change the way the movie shows.
(10:20) They're kind of in a sense making up this movie for us so we can live out our karmas. >> They can bend reality a little bit. >> Do you know what reality is? I don't. [laughter] >> But let's just say they can make what has to happen. They can change the storyline >> and they can help us overcome you know the stuff that we do that creates suffering for ourselves and others and negative karmas for ourselves.
(10:49) They can out of their love because they experience that we're all part of one being. Maharaj used to all we go like that you know and we go like wait a minute what are we getting busted for you know something we did something we're thinking of doing or something we're going to do we said baba what does it mean when you do that he go what does that mean many names many forms all one he said all the time sub the ultimate reality is that there's only one of us in the whole universe The delusions are that we are separate.
(11:29) You think you're you, I think I'm me. And from that delusion, all the nonsense comes. >> Yeah. I look at life that way where I think I'm me and I think you're you until I hear you singing. In which case, we become one. >> That's true. Because the name has that power, the repetition of the name. >> Are you aware of how many people's lives you've shaken up through your voice? >> Thankfully, no.
(11:54) [laughter] Thankfully, >> because who wants to have a big trip about it, you know, I just sing to him and everybody has their own experience. I'm not doing anything other than singing to him. I don't I'm not responsible for people's experiences. I'm very happy that they have them. That's wonderful. But that's not my job.
(12:14) My job is to sing to him. And that's what I if I was thinking about that stuff, I wouldn't be able to sing to him. So all I want to do is be with him. And that's the mo that's the motivating issue here. That's I want to be with him in that love all the time. But it's my own stuff that pulls me out of that place. So have to work on that.
(12:40) >> There's a video of one of your kans on YouTube. Uh it's happening in a church and it's got about 47 million views if I'm not mistaken. >> Really? >> Yeah. Uh I think it's the Omnashai >> song. >> I want to know what happens in your mind when you're taking a crowd through that experience of a kithan.
(13:03) Is the kithan a reflection of what's happening in your mind? >> Absolutely not. When I'm singing, what what is my job when I'm singing? When I'm singing, my job is to pay attention to the sound of the name. When I'm not when I notice that I'm not paying attention, I just let go and come back. That's all.
(13:27) I don't write down what I was thinking about. I don't categorize it. I don't make a list. I simply let it go and come back. The ability to let go of the thoughts, emotions, story lines, negative things we think about ourselves. That's what saves us. That ability to let go. The letting go is the practice. and coming back to the sound of the name.
(13:52) So when you ask me what my experience is, I don't even know what to tell you. All I'm doing is singing and trying to pay as much attention as I can to the sound of the name. >> Is there a picture going on in your head? >> Maybe. I don't I can't even know what to say because as soon as I'm aware that I'm not paying attention, I let go.
(14:21) So, it's not I don't really necessarily remember what that thought was. You know, something will come up. Maybe the bass player played a wrong note and I'm like ready to kill him, but then I forget and I I come back. You know, whatever pulls me out, I just let go of it and come back as soon as I can. >> Time bends a little bit.
(14:43) Yeah, for me there's really no time when I'm singing. I don't it it I have no idea how long it is usually because of basic some basic physical uh realities between 2 and 3 hours is probably the longest I can do but it's usually something like that but it the time is not really an issue at that point.
(15:07) Has there ever been a moment in your life where you're going about a kan? You're heading it, you're taking control of the crowd and then you see Maharaji somewhere in the crowd. First of all, I never think about taking control of the crowd. I sing. I repeat the name. I play my stupid little squeeze box and I sing. I don't think about taking control of anything.
(15:32) I I sing and I hear the response and then I sing and I hear the response. That's what my experience is pretty much limited to. Which is why I think you could say there is some something good in there because that frees everybody else to also do the practice themselves. If people were being manipulated like an entertainment thing where you're trying to get somebody off, they feel that you you would feel some coercion, some, you know, they want something from you.
(16:03) I don't want anything from you. I just want to be able to chant with you, which we're doing. So, we sing next. Um sometimes I see him in my mind in a but for me that's only one small part of him that physical body you know for me he he's become this vast space this vast presence and everything's inside of that just like the earth and the sky is in in space he is that space. He's that v.
(16:41) There's nothing outside of him for me. That's how I see him now. And so, of course, if I saw that body walking down the street, I'd try I'd kill myself running through traffic to get to it because that's But in normal daily life, it's it's more even more intimate than that because he's he's lives within us. You know, the wordami.
(17:08) So this is his this is the living presence within. >> But does he take form and visit you in your dreams? >> Yeah, sometimes pretty much once in a while >> he gives you a message. >> H >> does he give you a message? >> Yeah, usually go away. [laughter] >> Go back. >> Ja, he used to say jao is my mantra. He said >> but the vision is a blessing.
(17:31) >> Just to see him is daran is the whole thing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Before we move forward in this conversation, can I make a tiny request? >> Sure. >> Um, this is one of the first few podcasts that we're recording in this new studio. >> Gotcha. >> And since I saw it on the calendar, it was a very big deal for me that you yourself are visiting this studio and you're going to be one of our initial podcasts.
(17:54) >> Okay. >> So, the request is if you could even say like a short mantra >> just to further our conversation but also further the journey of this whole show. >> I'll try. >> Whatever. Whatever you're comfortable with. Thank you, good sir.
(18:54) Appreciate it from the bottom of my heart. So many more questions for you. Um, [snorts] when you meet a lot of Indians nowadays, especially people my age, I'm 31 years old. I'd also say people younger than me, there's a lot of spiritual passion waking up in people's hearts. >> And uh, Nim Karoli Baba as a topic, as something that's come up so much lately.
(19:23) People talk about it. People want to know more about him. Um [snorts] honestly I feel that it's his will or Harman's will or Ram's will whatever you wish but uh there are a lot of questions that people have about him. >> Uh so some of the questions I'm going to ask you reflect the audience's interest and some of them reflect my own interest.
(19:44) So don't mind some of the questions. >> Sure. >> Can we begin by speaking a little bit about Steve Jobs? >> He did come to India to meet Maharaji but Maharaji had already left. So he never actually met him physically. He stayed in the temple I think for a week or so maybe. Uh he considered himself a devotey of Maharajis and he had a picture of Maharaji and the book miracle of love next to his on the bed.
(20:15) He was very close friends with Larry Brilliant Dr. Larry Brilliant who started the SA foundation and also he's the one who Maharaji sent out to eradicate smallpox and they managed to do that in India. So they became very close friends but more than that I really don't know. >> It's said that Steve Jobs sent Mark Zuckerberg to Kangji Dhham as well.
(20:39) >> Yeah. Apparently, I don't know that personally, but I heard that Mark was uh at a point where he didn't know what to do and Steve said that he should go there. He would find some inspiration. >> Okay, >> that's all I know. >> Great point to talk about Kangji Dhham. >> What is that place for you and uh [snorts] what does one find if they carry an open heart to Kangji Dhham? Well, for me, Kenshi, when I've stayed there with Maharaji, it was our place to be with Baba.
(21:25) It wasn't primarily a a Hindu temple. It was Maharaji's place. And he used to say, "When you come here, you should feel like you're going to your grandfather's house. Everything's given. You don't have to do SA to eat. Do you want to cook your food? Here's some pots and pans, whatever. You should be, you should feel you're at your grandfather's place.
(21:46) And it was like that. Everything was centered around him. He was running the whole show. Everything was centered around him. Uh later after he left, Siddima continued that in an extraordinary way. She took care of the temple. She met people. More people started to come. Um, and now it's become like a pilgrimage place.
(22:12) I don't I haven't been there for many years. There's a a little rock cave behind Hanumanji's Mandr where a great Siddha Sombardi Maharaj used to stay on his way to his different places and that's the place where Maharaji sat and said there'll be a temple here. I hear the sound here. He said I hear the sound here. And so that's where the first temple was built, Hanumanji's temple on June and it was opened on June 15th maybe 65 or something like that.
(22:52) I'm not sure. And then Lakshmi Narayan temple, Shiva temple was built. Uh it's a very beautiful special area and there's really a charge there. Uh the river actually flows north at that point. uh which is supposed to be very sacred thing and uh but for me it's it's home I mean it's where I would spent the happiest time in my life.
(23:23) >> How many years had you spent there? >> Well I was in India at that time two and a half years he already extended my visa for me otherwise I would have had to go back at six months. Uh, and I lived in the temple uh from spring 1972 until fall 1972 about 5 months and um but we came in se September early September 70 and we came to see Maharaji from Nanal and he would send us back say come in three days come in four days at first, but then gradually and then
(24:10) yeah, as the years went by, we spent more time there. >> You know, your music is going to live long after you're gone as well. But I feel I feel the seed of the magic inside your music >> was planted in that phase of your life. >> Absolutely. No question about it. Um can you take us through a regular day in your life when you were in the ashram like what happened? How was the seed planted? And the other question is if you could take us through a few experiences that you had that changed you forever wherever you wish to begin and please
(24:45) take your time with this. In those days like I said our day was centered around daran with Maharaji that's all we cared about we were completely nuts you know all we wanted to do is look at him and be with him and he would give daron in the morning and in the afternoon and then after the temple closed he would come out in the evening sometimes and we'd spend quiet times with him with very few people and uh that that's all it was about just being with him.
(25:25) Um and uh during Dura Puja time in 1972 I was living in the temple and all the ma came from the local town nal around to spend th those 10 days in the temple. It was the only time they could really come out and be and and they would gather in this one room which was there was a wall between the temple and the ashram part.
(25:56) So they would gather in one room that had a window in that wall. So at night I would be in the ashram part and they'd be in that room all night long doing bajan and it was soing amazing. It was unbelievable. I would sit right outside the window all night. They just party. I mean they were rocking.
(26:24) I've never That's that's that was so transforming for me because I heard they were really singing, you know. I mean, just full on. It was It was extraordinary. And And they knew I was out there, so they cracked the window a little bit so I could hear better. They're so sweet. They were so sweet. All those ladies at long gone.
(26:48) All those ma, you know, the way they loved Maharaji, the way they served, it was so extraordinary. Do do you think your ability to sing is a bit of a siddhi? >> I think it's survival instinct. [laughter] >> Like as in you're looking a means to pay the bills. >> A means to stay alive to save my miserable ass. That's what it is. [laughter] >> Can we expand this thought? >> You know back I started singing with people. Okay.
(27:21) So the last time I saw Maharaji physically so far was in Bindavvern on March 2nd, 1973. Uh the next day I had to get on my plane back to America. He was sending me back to America after two and a half years. So I was sitting with him and I thought, what am I going to do in America? I've been walking around barefoot in a red ulfie for two years.
(27:53) I don't think that's going to work in New York. What am I going to do in America? So, I'm arguing with myself. I said, "I should ask him." No, don't you ask him. You should have faith. What do you mean faith? I wasn't going back to America. So, finally, I blurted out. I said, "Baba, how can I serve you in America?" He made a face.
(28:14) It looked like he just bit a pickle. He said, "If you ask about service, it's not service. Do what you want. Do what I want." >> Yeah. >> Well, to be honest with you, I'd been celibate for two and a half years between the ages of 23 and 26. I knew what I wanted to do and so did he. >> Yeah. >> And when he said that, my mind just went, >> "What?" And he laughed.
(28:48) He so how will you serve me? And he's laughing. He's laughing. He said do as you wish. That was his last instruction to me. So then I had to leave for Delhi. So I left I went walked across the courtyard and I did dundapam from across the courtyard. And when I was down like that, I heard my voice in my head, but it wasn't me speaking and it said, "I'll sing to you in America.
(29:23) " I went, "Oh, okay." However, it took me 21 years to start singing to him in America because when I left India, he told me, "Get a year visa so you can stay and get a $1,000." We had no money, you know. the people who had money put it into a hanuman fund and if you needed some rupees you took so get a leis and $1,000 and then come back so March April May June I get a letter from a friend of mine who's with Maharaji he said this morning Maharaji
(30:08) came out of his room and he said where's Krishna Das and I said Baba you send him to America [clears throat] Nate tell him to come back I want to hear him sing tell him to come back he like threw a fit you So my friend wrote to me and said, "There's the green light. You can come back now instead of going back right away.
(30:29) " Which was the biggest mistake I ever made. I wrote back and I said, "Well, you asked me to get a visa. I've applied for the visa. I'm working and making money. Should I come now or should I wait till the visa?" And there's one other part to the story. The reason I wrote that letter is because for the first time in three years, I had a girlfriend and I didn't quite want to give that up and run back to India.
(31:04) Right? So, I wrote that letter which was horrible. The first chance I got, I betrayed the only real love I had ever felt. How's that? I had to live with that for so many years. So, I wrote that letter saying, "Well, you know, I'll come back right away if you want, but thinking I could get laid for a couple of weeks extra.
(31:42) " I had to live with that for a long time. And um so I got a letter back and said mahardi says come in December. This was now June right come in December. I thought okay that's I'll come in December. He left the body in September. And I was left with that the great devote the one who claims to love his guru so much.
(32:15) the first chance he gets, he betrays that love. >> Do you still look at it as a betrayal even today? >> Yeah, sure. >> After so many years. >> Yeah. But >> I don't see it I mean it doesn't hurt me the way it did. You know, we have these vasas of our mind, these ways we think, our karmas, the way we see the world.
(32:43) We're not free beings. We don't make free choices. All our choices are conditioned responses to one thing or another. You want this, you do this. You don't want this, you do this. It's all in response to what we want, what we don't want. And so the first chance I had to overcome, he gave me that chance. I let's say to call it a betrayal is a little bit intense, you could say.
(33:12) But let's He was giving me a chance to overcome my own stuff and come right back to the love. But I wasn't ready. I have to live with that. That's okay. We're here. We wouldn't be here if that didn't happen. Let's put it that way. One thing leads to another. So, it's all okay. And I'm okay with it now. But it took a lot of years.
(33:39) So the pain of his loss led to some kind of growth. >> Absolutely. For sure. Yeah. >> That's what you're saying that we wouldn't be here if that had not happened. >> Yeah. Absolutely. It threw me into a depression. A lot of very self-destructive behavior for many, many, many years. And then eventually I had I got addicted to uh and I was in very very bad shape.
(34:16) Uh and my Indian father my Mr. Casey Tuari who I was and still am the oldest brother in the family came to America and um I had been uh it was called freebase at the time. I don't know if you ever heard about it's it's like crack but it's worse. It's actually a pure most purest form of cocaine that you smoke you it's horrible instantly addictive.
(34:50) So for two years I was addicted to that. And then Tari came he actually came to Canada and I went up to see him [snorts] and um my life was falling apart. I was going down. There was no way I was going to make it. >> This is the 80s. >> H this is Yeah. 83 I think. >> Gotcha. >> 83 84. Um so I flew up to Canada to see him and drove out to the country where he was visiting some old devotees of Maharaji [clears throat and cough] and I came into the house and they said, "Oh, he's upstairs.
(35:31) " So I walked upstairs and he was sitting in a room talking to somebody and his back was to the door. Okay. As I approached the door, I felt this like force field and I actually stopped and started to back away. At which point he stood up and his back had been to the door. He stood up and he turned and he looked at me and he said, "Promise me now you will give up cocaine. Promise me now.
(36:05) " Like that. I just looked at him. I said, Okay. From that moment to this moment, absolutely zero desire for cocaine. And I don't know if you know about these things, but that doesn't happen like that. People struggle their whole lives to stay free of these things. They saved me. They took that addiction away just like that.
(36:37) So that happened. So then it was shortly after that that I returned to India and I was a wreck. I mean I was not doing any drugs anymore but I was fragile and shaky and not so good and I get the kenchi and I just want to go to my room and go to sleep for a week. Unfortunately it was dura puja and I had been the pujari of the temple and everybody loves me.
(37:13) Oh says come good you'll sit in the puja with us in the hawan. Oh no no no but you can't say no. So then every day all I'm sitting in this swaha and I'm going god damn it I can't stand this swaha you know covered with ashes and grease and smoke it was so horrible you know and you have to fast and you you can't eat until late you know I was like torture so after some days so in the morning the puja is over and then they come up to the front of the temple and do arti and then they take rest for a couple of hours and then the afternoon bua
(38:00) so we all come up from the havan and to maharaji tuck it and I'm standing like in the back like this and they're doing RT and I'm standing on the side so they finish doing the RT and everybody bows down and leaves one old lady bowed down onto the tucket and stayed there. She went into samadei.
(38:31) She went she just gone and she was just like down on the ducket. Everybody else is gone. And I'm looking at this and it was like a spear right through my heart. I staggered back to the sat down at the temple because I said I saw he was real for these people. He was real. They he was real for these people and it was like getting hit by a truck and I'm just sitting there like this, you know.
(39:07) Sidima saw me sitting there. She sent somebody to get me. [clears throat] So this one woman comes says kitty sid calling and I thought why don't they just leave me alone let meing die all right so I had to go back I went back in the back door through the courtyard where Maharaj used to sit I walked into the room his room Siddima sitting on the floor by the end of the tucket when I walked in that room.
(39:45) I got hit with a lightning bolt right here and my whole chest exploded and I fell on the ground weeping, weeping uncontrollably. I could not stop crying. And in that instant I saw every single moment of my life from the moment I heard he died till that moment you know like frames of a movie. Every single minute of my life every second I saw everything I had done.
(40:22) I saw why I had done it. I saw and I saw [snorts] that I had built a wall around my heart and I would not let myself feel him. I just I couldn't bear it. I wouldn't let myself feel him. >> What What was the lightning bolt? >> I don't know. It was it just it was just like a explosion in my heart and I like I said I just fell I fell on the ground and Simma was just sitting there not moving quiet didn't say anything and I'm thinking she must think I'm crazy I got to stop crying but I couldn't stop crying and I I saw I had built a wall around my
(41:07) heart and that Maharaji He the well meant nothing to him. That he had never left me for a second. But I had closed my heart and wouldn't let myself feel. And I saw every brick in that wall. It had like a neon sign. Shame. Shame. Fear. Fear. Anger. Anger. Greed. You know, every brick had a little thing. And I saw I could take this wall down.
(41:39) I all I have to do is look at it. I can't pretend it doesn't exist. And by the way, I was in ecstasy. The bliss I was feeling was unbelievable. And I'm just lying there on the ground weeping. [snorts] And all of a sudden, somebody bangs on the window and says, "Kitty, waiting for puja." What? How did two hours go by? Right.
(42:15) So I got up and went back to the puja. [laughter] [snorts] Wow. And I'm weeping. I'm crying. You know the guy who sponsored the puja, Indra Bababa was kept looking over at me. He said, "Krishna, has someone died?" Finally, he kind of reaches around, pets me on the back like that, you know. So I was swimming in ecstasy.
(42:41) It was unbelievable. I could barely walk around. I was just floating, right? And then after a couple of days, I mean, this really lasted. After a couple of days, I noticed the volume of the ecasy was coming down a little bit. So I took [sighs and gasps] ah yes, it came back. The Lord is so gracious.
(43:06) Not only does he give the ecstasy but he gives the way to keep the you know I was out of my mind. >> Do do you think Maharaji was simulating a bit of a psychedelic experience for you so that you completely let go? It >> was beyond psychedelic exper I've had psychedelic experience. This was way beyond that >> if you don't mind me asking.
(43:23) >> Yeah. Yeah. >> What psychedelic experiences have you had? >> We'll get there later. >> Okay. But was this a way to make you forget the drugs? >> This was a way to open my heart. Okay. because I had closed myself down [clears throat] because I felt bad about not going back because he had left the body and being with him physically was the only time I ever felt loved in my life and now that was gone.
(43:49) So I was I was dead on dead in the water as far as I was concerned. So he opened me up again. This was like let the kid live, boom, you know, that's what it was. But there's more to it. So few days later I woke up in the morning completely empty. No bliss, no love, just dead meat. And I freaked out. I went up on the roof of the dorm cell and I'm storming back and forth on the roof and I'm screaming at him as loud as I can into the valley.
(44:27) If you're going to open me up, if you're going to close me down, then [clears throat] don't open me up. just leave me alone. I'm yelling. I was like out of my mind. And after some time, that lady who called me, she comes up. See, they're not calling. And then she ran away. They were scared of me. Like, so I I headed back down to Ma's room, but she had come up to the back of the temple and was in the Tari's room.
(44:57) So I [snorts] I walked up and [clears throat] I stood outside the door like this and she looked at me and she giggled. She laughed and everybody laughed. She said something. Everybody laughed. I said, "What did she say?" And they told me, she said, "I was like a little baby that had been given a sweet and eaten it up in one bite and wanted another one right away.
(45:25) But I couldn't have another one right away. But don't worry, I'll have another one sometime. Oh, okay. I'm going to go lie down in my room. And I went I slept for 24 hours and then I was back to normal again. [laughter] >> Do you remember that nap? >> That what? >> The nap. The sleep. >> It was a good sleep. Yeah.
(45:53) Very deep sleep. So they saved me. They saved me. People ask me all the time. >> This is the power of Kji Dham in my eyes. >> This is the power of Maharaji. Wherever he is, there's power. And Ma Sidima was an extraordinary being. Unbelievable. >> Has that experience happened to you post this? [sighs] >> Um, let's put it this way.
(46:19) There have been two major experiences in my life. that completely changed the course of my life. This was one 1984. Then again in 1995 was the second one. >> Something similar. >> Similar but different >> in India. >> Yeah. At Kenji actually. >> You want to take us through it? >> Yeah, I can take you through it. >> Or or let's have a bit of a segue into psychedelics.
(46:53) Psychedelics, they're chemicals. They change the brain chemistry and they give you an experience of a different type of reality, a different they give you a different illusion than disillusion. But it's not reality. Maharaji said the yogi medicine which he called LSD brings you into the room with Christ but you can't stay.
(47:26) The only way to stay is love. But it's good for beginners because it shows you something that you don't see through the normal sense input. >> He was directing you towards bakti yog through that statement. >> It can. >> Okay. But not everybody is has a wonderful experience on some people freak out. It's too much for them to take.
(47:53) So it can be very positive. But it also can be difficult for some people. But whatever it is, it's just another experience. It >> it was LSD that you had done. >> I've done LSD and peyote and a few other things. >> You've done peyote? >> Yeah, sure. That was the first thing I did while I was in high school.
(48:12) Oh really? >> That was a great experience. I >> I've heard that. Have you done Iawaska? >> No. >> Okay. But have you heard of Iawaska? >> Oh, sure. Many times. Yeah. >> You know how they mentioned that you feel the presence of a mother >> in Iawaska. They say with peyote, you feel the presence of a father deity while doing it.
(48:29) >> I don't know. Uh I felt deep deep love on peyote. The whole world was colored in love. And I also I I had no doubt that what I was experiencing was more real than anything else I had ever experienced. So it was a very big thing for me. >> Something shifted in you because of that. >> Yeah, something definitely shifted.
(48:59) But it didn't make me happy. It actually made me more depressed because I couldn't get back there. >> You know, you can't take it every day. I didn't have anymore. >> It's It's like a mushroom, right? Basically, >> it's a cactus. >> Okay. >> That grows in the desert southwest America. >> And you just eat it. >> Well, we boiled it up in my mother's kitchen.
(49:19) [laughter] >> Gave some to mommy. >> She wasn't. She was drinking. She didn't mind that peyote. [laughter] >> So, yeah, it it does. It definitely shows you there's more to life than what we think, what we usually experience. And that's could be a good thing. But it's not uh it's not going to save you from yourself.
(49:41) It can [laughter] help it can help you start looking, >> right? >> Which is a very big thing cuz most people they're born and die and never here for a second. >> I think it definitely opens up your head in some way. But that openness can lead to sadness in the long term. >> Yeah, >> it's kind of what you said. >> Yeah, it can.
(50:02) I mean it it opens you up to a different way of seeing which uh could also lead to you truly trying to find out who you are. >> Please I mean interject if you disagree with me. I'd actually love for you to disagree with me on this point. >> I'll be happy to disagree. [laughter] [gasps] >> Uh I've always felt this about the West. I have a lot of friends who were born and raised in America.
(50:28) Spoken to a lot of Americans as well. I'm not just talking about America. I'm talking about the West in general. >> So I count Europe, Australia, Canada, all of it as the West. Um I feel like the quality of life is largely much better than the quality of life here, but there's a limit to what money and comforts can bring to your human experience.
(50:50) of course >> and then that upper most layer of human experience can be found on the eastern side of the world often in China, India, Japan, these kind of places have um for lack of better words spiritual experiences that you can go and experience. >> Western culture is a few hundred years old, >> right? >> Eastern culture is thousands of years old.
(51:18) Does the average person in the West kind of understand that something's missing? >> No, it's just missing, but they don't know it's missing. And so they suffer. They live and they think that they try to find happiness in stuff. They think more stuff means more happy, but it doesn't. and they find that out and they get frustrated and unhappy and angry and violent and all the things that happen when you when you don't get what you need.
(51:51) >> Do they hear stories about the Beatles, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, yourself, all these people coming to the eastern part of the world and discovering this juicier side of life? >> Mhm. Uh do people even know about this experience that exists in India that you can actually find these things? >> I would say no.
(52:15) [snorts] It's a question of karmic ripeness. >> That's where I was going with this. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry I'm like interrupting but it's another layer to the question. M um I don't know if it's arrogant for me to say this but sometimes I feel like the souls that take birth in India have seen a longer journey than the souls born in other parts of the world and I'm generalizing you >> Mhm.
(52:38) >> but on a general basis. >> Yeah. But there's only one world. Don't get so too so too so too so too so too so too so too so too so too so too so too caught up in that >> No no I'm not it's not a way of saying like India is better than like it's just a thought experiment. >> Yeah.
(52:52) that like I'm sure I'm sure my soul and his soul and her soul they've all had births all over the world. So I'm not looking at it as my soul's most superior. I'm just trying to understand deeper. >> It's a big thing to try to understand [laughter] especially since we don't know about it. Uh they say that every life you get a certain amount of your karmas to work out a small little bag full out of a big bag. And that's your job in that life.
(53:24) And uh people who are born in the west they do live a materially better life for the most part. Food is more available, electricity is more available, housing is more avail. For the most part, there are many poor people in the in the west who suffer terribly. But for the most part, the material plane is much more together.
(53:53) But that doesn't bring happiness. And the problem is most people don't understand that happiness is actually possible. They mixed up with pleasure or pain, >> right? But happiness has nothing to do with either one of those. Happiness, joy, peace, reality. That's our true nature. It's not something you get from the outside.
(54:22) Nothing outside can give you that. But in the west, it's a very materialistic society. So they think that everything comes from the outside. So in a sense it's immature or maybe it's just a stage that people have to go through. Maybe they had the karmas to enjoy certain things so they were born where they can enjoy them. You know I'll tell you a funny story.
(54:48) So the Tari family Mr. and Mrs. Tari came to America in the 80s to visit us. And Mr. to had he was a great yogi really a great and he had very bad berscitis in his shoulder so he wanted to get acupuncture so my acupuncture doctor Chinese guy had an office in Midtown Manhattan on 42nd Street in the 80s now 42nd Street in New York City in the 80s was the center of drugs and pornography and movie theaters but that's where his office was.
(55:25) So we parked on one place and we have to walk two blocks to his office and I'm walking with these tiny little Indian people and people are coming up to them. You want you want smoke? What do you want? And the the movie theaters with the porn pictures and everything. And I'm thinking, oh my god, how could I bring these people here? They must think I'm out of my mind.
(55:48) Oh, this is so horrible. So horrible. And Mrs. Tari says something to Mr. Tari. I said, "Baba, what did she say?" Figuring she said, "Get me out of here." I said, "Baba, what did she say?" He said, "Oh," she said, "This is like heaven." I said, "What heaven?" And he looked at me like I was crazy.
(56:11) He said, "Of course, heaven is a place you go to get the things you want." >> No judgmental mind, no good or evil. She saw if people want these things, this is where they come. This is heaven for them. That blew my mind. [sighs and gasps] That really blew my mind. That was amazing. So, it's kind of like that. We are born in situations where we can fulfill the certain karmas we have to fulfill.
(56:41) Not everybody's going to wake up this life. Very few people are actually going to wake up. You know, when you mentioned that there was two incidents in your life with change and everything, I thought you're going to retell the story of you driving that Volkswagen van >> and how you almost fell off the cliff.
(57:00) >> Yeah, that's that was one. Yeah. >> And I'd love for you to retell that story on this podcast as well if you could do it quickly >> because that was the story that stayed with me >> for a very long time. So, I'd love for you to talk about it and also you could explain why you're called the driver. >> Well, Randas had bought this Volkswagen bus for from some Westerners in India.
(57:23) >> Beautiful car. >> And uh we we drove it back and forth between Nanal and Kenshi every day. We had 20 people in that bus. People hanging off the the sides up on the roof, you know, it was insane. Then one day Maharaji looked at Ramlas and said Ramlas you're a saint you shouldn't drive give him the keys me.
(57:45) So I got the keys and from that point my name was driver I come. So I had the keys uh and so I was now the I drove everything. So now my secret desire was to drive Maharaji in the bus. But I never said anything to anyone. But those keys were never 6 in away from me. When I slept, they were under the pillow or in my bag.
(58:18) When I went somewhere, they were with me all the time. Never. I was ready ready at any moment. So then how much time went by? Maybe six months. We're now in Alahabad sitting in the room with Maharaji. I'm sitting over there. He's sitting on. He goes, "Jab, you got the keys?" Huh? Jello. And he gets up and D it was househab.
(58:50) We go out to the bus and I'm thinking, "Wow." So, we're walking out to the bus. Now, he was very short. Maharaj was short and the the Volkswagen bus seats are high up the door. So he had to throw himself up into the seat. He bashed his head on the top of the door. I mean really hard. I couldn't believe it.
(59:16) I said, "Dada, did you see that?" Now what does Dada say? A real devotey? He said he did it on purpose. Just drive. That's a real devotey. Everything Maharaji did as far as Dada was concerned was on purpose. There was no mistakes. So I get in the car, just me and Maharaji, right? He's sitting right there and I'm he says. So I'm driving and he's going like, "Watch out, be careful. Blow out.
(59:46) There's a car coming. Watch out. Be up like that." You know, it's like And the whole time he's like that and I'm just driving driving. [clears throat] I'm you going too fast. We get to the sum. I turn the car off. We sit there for a minute. We said, "Was jello." So, same thing going back. Watch out. Be careful. Watch out.
(1:00:04) There's a car. We get back to the house and that's it. Right. A couple of days later I think we were being sent away to uh Ramdas had come back to India with Swami Muktananda after doing a world tour with him and he had promised Baba that Mktananda that he would do a yatra with him. So we were being sent away on the yatra.
(1:00:30) Maharaji said you said you would go you have to go jao you know. So I was driving and coming out of Alabad, I don't remember exactly where, there was like this long turn, slow turn and there was some body of water, maybe a reservoir on the other side of the road and I was driving too fast and the car began to slip off the road on the to the other side of the road and we were going right into that water.
(1:01:03) There was no I couldn't do anything. lost control of the car. All of a sudden, a huge wind and the car moved like 10 feet back over to the other side of the road like that. And my first thought was that's why he hit his head. >> Took on some karmas from you guys. to save us. You know, it's very hard for our hearts to trust.
(1:01:41) We It's not easy. We got all kinds of stuff. But with him, your heart naturally trusted you. You just there was a a connection that your heart knew was real and was absolutely everything you wanted it to be, everything you thought it could be. >> Do you remember the first time you saw him? >> Sure.
(1:02:17) What did you feel in your heart? >> Confusion. [laughter] >> Why? Because I had been feeling him everywhere since the moment I met Ramdas. My [snorts] heart become the sky. Everywhere I looked, this is where he was. I was inside of him all the time. >> But you knew that Nim Karoli Baba is this saint in India at that time? >> Yeah. Ramdas talked about him.
(1:02:37) >> Okay. Gotcha. Although the so see the first time I met Ramdas I went up to visit him I heard about him from some friends and [snorts] when I walked into the room he was sitting on the other side of the room kind of meditating with his eyes closed back against the wall. When I walked into that room knowing nothing about anything Maharaji or anything, never heard of Maharaji.
(1:03:06) Just walking into that room that second all of a sudden I knew whatever it was I was looking for was real and it was in the world and you could find it. That was really big thing because what there were three books on this in America that's it you know and and no saints you never met anybody so was any of this real or was it just fantasy stuff this moment I knew all that stuff in autobiography of the yogi in Gospel of Ramma Krishna all that stuff was real and that was a big moment for me.
(1:03:50) >> Are those books still spoken about in the west? >> Sure. autobiograph of Ramach Krishna and there's still some seekers who are being directed >> to seek further >> yeah sure >> it's been 55 years roughly >> at least well >> since your time in India little around 55 >> 54 years I came in se September of 70 >> yeah could you talk about your own evolution in these 55 years >> from stupid to more stupid.
(1:04:25) [laughter] >> Okay, then just lately. Let's talk about lately. You and me both are unwell today and we're doing this podcast. >> Yeah, we're sympathetic coffers. >> I I feel we're getting purified to >> be able to do this conversation better. >> Very good. [laughter] >> This is a very important day for me like to just meet you.
(1:04:47) I I I don't know why it's important, but sometimes you just know. >> I appreciate that. It wasn't a compliment to you. So [laughter] >> whatever. >> I'm kidding. Of course it was. >> Um, my evolution is very simple. All I want to do is sing to him. And by his grace, my life seems to be organized that way. I all I all I have to do is sing to him.
(1:05:16) I can eat, watch TV, travel around, and sing. It's like crazy. Who would have believed that this could happen for me? >> You're still seeing him everywhere, >> huh? >> You're still seeing him everywhere. >> Not physically, but of course. Yeah. >> Right. >> Whenever The point is, we don't look, we don't remember to look anymore.
(1:05:39) We're too busy thinking about doing things. But when you do look, you will see it. But to remember to look is not easy. How do you remember when you forgot? So that's what spiritual practice is about. You reminding yourself to pay attention to what's really here. You don't make up what's really here.
(1:06:05) You don't try to have any particular kind of experience. You just remember to show up again and again. So you keep coming back to the name. Maraji said over and over that's a huge statement. Come on. He knows what he's talking about. He's not bullshitting anybody. And that's what he said. Now if we really believe that, what else would we be doing? So to the extent that we have the faith in that that's how much we are doing that and the faith comes from grace.
(1:06:47) I I'll tell you where I'm going towards with this question. So a lot of people in our country know about what bacti and bakti yog mean devotion love for the divine. We see that a lot with the Har Krishna movement in our country. Um the issue is that there's a lot of urban Indians and I'm also speaking for urban civilians all over the world who are seekers who spiritual seekers.
(1:07:14) They want to evolve. They know that one of the pathways is bi yog. >> Mhm. >> But the material world tells us to constantly do things. >> Mhm. >> Talks about productivity so much. talks about growing materially so much. So that same blueprint of material growth and doing things in order to move ahead is what a lot of people apply onto their own spiritual journeys.
(1:07:40) And that's also a reason I think that a lot of people are able to easily adopt kria or sadha you know some kind of tantra practice these kind of things rather than easily adopt just bi which seems like a much simpler easier nicer way to go about your own sense of evolution. I agree with that because what you're saying, what you're implying is that you have to have faith first to do bakti.
(1:08:11) In other words, you're saying love for the divine. What's the divine, >> right? >> We don't know what the that is. So, how am I going to be devoted to that? all. I'm going to just do my breathing exercises. [laughter] And that's a good thing. You shouldn't manipulate yourself. The divine doesn't need you to help it be divine.
(1:08:29) All you have to do is find out who you are because that's divine. And devotion is a natural feeling of love that comes from within. You don't have to manipulate it. You don't need to create it yourself. Just calm your ass down and be a good human being and then worry about that later. [laughter] You know, love the divine is not one little thing in the corner of a room.
(1:08:54) It's the whole universe and everybody's in that. You can't love one person and hate another person and think you have anything divine. >> So you do you have to plant the seeds for the things you want. Sitting down doing breathing exercises, looking at the mind, calming the thoughts, that's all good because ultimately you're going to uncover what's in there and then you will feel the connection that we have with everything because that's what's real.
(1:09:26) This the individual separateness is a delusion but we believe it and so we suffer. You don't have to create the divine. The divine already is. Don't worry about that. Let's worry about getting through the day without killing somebody or beating somebody up or hurting ourselves or creating more suffering.
(1:09:49) That's our job. Leave the divine to the divine. Does something change in you every time you conduct a kithan? >> I don't know. [laughter] How do I know? >> How do you feel after the kithan? >> I feel like I've been with Maharaji more deeply. And that's what it is for me, you know, when I'm chanting, when I'm doing that practice.
(1:10:13) I'm not being distracted by other things as much, >> right? >> And so I'm more with him, more in the present moment. >> Okay. And that always feels good. >> You know this morning I think I don't know whether I've already said this on this episode or not but I'll say it again. >> I feel like Nim Karoli Baba is visiting my studio himself through you.
(1:10:34) >> It might be. >> That's why this day was so special for me when I saw on my calendar. >> Mhm. >> So uh very very big day again and kind of feel like I want to go deeper on some of these tangents we've already spoken about. Do you know who Virat Kohli is sir? I [snorts] heard about him. [laughter] >> Do you know that he's our version of LeBron James? >> He's your version of Michael Jordan.
(1:10:58) >> He's our Michael Jordan. >> Absolutely. >> Um do you know that there's a video that went viral a few months ago >> of Anushka and Virat attending your concert? >> Yeah. >> What is it from your eyes? >> Friends. >> Okay. And have you discussed Nim Karoli Baba with them? >> Mhm. >> Okay. Again, they're a part of that wave of Indians that's just seeking more knowledge about Nim Karoli Baba.
(1:11:28) >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Very sincere people. >> Okay. He's probably one of the most influential person in India today. And the fact that Nim Karoli Baba's energy has reached him and it's spreading across to the rest of the countries through people like him. Um, it kind of reconfirms what I felt uh at the start of the podcast that there are certain energies that are just rising back up.
(1:11:55) >> But again, my question is why is it happening for the first time in almost 50 years? Like is there a need of that right now? >> What do you think? >> I think there's perpetually a need for it. >> Sure. >> Right. >> The world very seems a lot of lot of suffering in the world these days. A lot of disease, a lot of unease, a lot of fear, a lot of violence. It's terrible.
(1:12:23) So these great beings, they're always available for us, but we don't look. So they make themselves known any way they can for our sake. So we can find some a little bit of peace. You know, it's not easy to find peace of mind in a situation like this. But the the thing is that peace of mind is our natural state.
(1:12:52) That's the that's the thing. It's who we are, but it's covered up by all this stuff and there's a lot of stuff that covers it. >> How are you nowadays, sir? getting along >> because again there's so much power and magic in your voice. I would assume that you're completely at peace that you know I would assume that you've gone beyond and you're just kind of coming back here for the sake of human life.
(1:13:23) >> It's obviously you're delusional. [laughter] [gasps] >> I'm not too I'm doing okay. I'm very happy with my life right now. I'm able to sing with people as much as I want to, as much as I can. I'm getting old, so I'm slowing down a little bit. But I would have never believed that my life could be like this, that I could do what that what I really want to do and and do it like this.
(1:13:59) You know, it's just such a blessing. Yes. >> Was there a trailer of this chapter of your life given to you while you were in the ashram? >> Um, in what way? >> Were you kind of told that this is kind of going to be your life? Nothing like that? >> No. >> Okay. >> No. You just got to take it a breath at a time. >> Okay.
(1:14:32) What happened in 1995? >> [snorts] >> I had an epiphany in my room in New York where I was living at the time. The one I was struck by another one of those thunderbolts. And in that moment, I understood completely that if I didn't sing with people, I would never be able to clean out the dark shadows in my own heart. And it was from those shadows that all the suffering and unhappiness was coming.
(1:15:02) And chanting with people was the only thing that I could do to help myself. So it took me a little while, but I approached a couple of the yoga local yoga studios and there were only like three or four at that time. Now there's millions. >> And asked if I could sing there. One of them said, "Yeah, sure. So I started chanting with people.
(1:15:31) Maybe there were 10 people there and they were the teacher trainee. They had to be there. [laughter] So [snorts] anyway, I started singing with people and then after um a few months, let's see about five or six months, it was starting people were starting to come, more and more people. And um I became very aware [snorts] that it wasn't good.
(1:16:12) I couldn't do this the right way. >> The singing >> Yeah. >> it wasn't going how you had planned it. >> Not that way. Inside I saw that I was I had I had too many I was I I saw I was a hungry guy. And I was going to use all this energy that was coming towards me to satisfy my hungry desires. And I was going to hurt myself and I was going to hurt other people. And this flipped me out.
(1:16:46) This freaked me out. >> Like the intention behind the ketons wasn't in the right place. >> Exactly. It was not I mean the intention was but the expression wasn't. >> Gotcha. >> Yeah. I mean, I wanted to do it right, but I couldn't. I couldn't do it right. So, I quit. And in March 1995, I went to India, came back to India and I started talking to Maharaji and I said to him, "You have to fix this.
(1:17:23) This is your problem. I'm singing to people in your name. you have to fix this because I was the problem. How do I How do I fix that? I'm the problem. I can't do anything. I'm not qualified. I can't get past this. It's me that's the problem. So, he has to fix this because I can't. You want me to sing, you fix it.
(1:17:48) You don't fix it, I don't sing. Good night. Every day, day after day, nothing happened. And I was in terrible despair because I was being prevented from doing the only thing that I could do to save my ass by me. But how do you get around that? Where do you go where you're not? So I wasn't It was terrible. And every day it was getting worse.
(1:18:24) Anyway, so we were down in Lucknau in April. It was 120°. It was horrible. I was suffering terribly. And then we went up to the hills. The twoaris had a little koutier in Binta. So anyway, Sidima came back to Kenchi and we went to see her and it was now May. So she asked me what my plans were. I said, "Well, you know, I guess I should be back in India back in the States by the end of May.
(1:19:05) " She was quiet for a minute and then she said no you have to stay until pundra Jun which is the bandara at Kenchi of the opening of the Hanuman temple 15th of June and then she said you have to see Maharaji's big form big form I thought what is she talking Yeah. So I made some phone calls back to the states. Nobody was looking for me.
(1:19:40) So the next day I said, "Yeah, I can stay." So here's the funny backstory. [clears throat] On June 14th, 1972, I'm living in the temple with Maharaji. I'm recovering from hepatitis. I was really sick that particular day. I wasn't well and I came out of my room. Maharaji looks at me. He says, "He's sick. Take him to the hospital.
(1:20:09) Take him to the [clears throat] hospital." J. So I put in a car and driven to Nanal to the hospital. I got back to the temple on the 16th of June [clears throat] only to find that Maharaji had worn a red blanket on the 15th on Pundra Jun the bandara Maharaji had worn a red blanket. What is Hanji's color? Red. When I heard that he roar red blanket and he had sent me away and I didn't see that red blanket, I took a vow to myself that I would never be in the temple on June 15th ever.
(1:21:00) And from that day until 1995, there have been three or four times that I left the temple on the 14th and came back on the 16th. Sydney M look at what are you doing? What's what's going on? I said, Mom, I'm leaving. And then I would come back on the next day. I was never in the temple. I didn't even realize when she said this to me that I had to be there on the 15th that what what I was agreeing to right she tricked me [laughter] I was in bean tall with the twoaris for a while and then towards the middle of May I moved into
(1:21:42) the temple and I'm living there singing with the kanas for hours and hours every day was really great, [snorts] wonderful. But every night I would go out, there was a in the old days, you know, there was one light bulb in the front courtyard. That was it. Now there's lights everywhere, you know, blah blah. I found a little and in the old days I used to lie on the roof of the dharma just watching the shooting stars.
(1:22:20) You could hear them, you know. It was amazing. >> Wow. >> It just amazing. But now it's so lit up you can't see me. I found a little corner and I look up at the scars and I'd say, "Okay, you haven't done anything. I'm leaving in two weeks. Get it together. You know I'm not singing until you fix this." Right. Good night.
(1:22:43) Every night I would go out there. He didn't do anything. And this despair is building up in me because really I needed to do this and I couldn't do it. It was terrible. The night before the bandara, the night of the 14th, I go out there again. Now, you know, I'm going to be leaving now in a couple of days and still nothing's changed and I'm looking at a life of horror for the rest of my life if I can't do this.
(1:23:28) So, I go out there in the back of the temple. I'm looking up at the stars and I said, "I don't get it. Why aren't you why haven't you fixed this? You can do this. What's the problem? And then I said, [sighs and gasps] I can't make you do it if you don't want to do it. I don't get it. But all right, I'll go back. I'll sing.
(1:23:56) How bad could it be? Good night. That's what we call in New York surrender. [gasps] I gave up. I agreed. I didn't know it at the time, but that's what that was. I agreed to deal with it as it was and not demand that he change it, which he could. [snorts] I agreed just to to deal with it. That was a very big thing. The next day was the bandara and thousands of people were coming.
(1:24:33) Thousands and thousands and thousands of people And they were coming in the front of the temple coming up to the roof and then leaving through a bridge a bed temporary bridge in the back of the temple having a meal and then leaving. At one point Ma came up and was sitting on the ledge by the stairs. So after taking prasad people would come down and pam she would visit meet with people.
(1:25:06) So I went and I stood by her for many hours just standing there. And as I was standing there, I began to feel something really strange, something I never feel. Peace. [laughter] I was looking out over this scene, you know, from above looking down into the temple and I saw all these people coming, eating, disappearing.
(1:25:41) And I saw each one of these people thought, "Hey, why don't we go to Kenchi for that bandara? Yeah, we'll go. We'll take that train. Then we can get the bus and we'll be there by this." Yeah. And then we'll come back. Yeah. Let's do that. Okay. I saw all those people. Every single one of those people thought that they were doing this, but no.
(1:26:02) Maharaji was dragging them there, shoving the food in their mouth, and then dragging them home. It wasn't It was like It wasn't really a vision, but it was like, "Ah, this is that's Wow." Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, something was happening. And um another funny thing was happening. So [snorts] in the old days, Maharaji had made me wear red.
(1:26:36) He he had me dye everything. I had Hanuman's colors. Yanjang Bali, you have to wear red. So I brought my red Ulfi with me to India. But I said to myself, I will not put this on unless Sydney Ma Maharaji tells me to. You know, I'm a stubborn What can I tell you? So I had it with me and Sid Ma every every once in a while Sid Ma would introduce me.
(1:27:04) Oh, this is Krishna D from Maharaji's time. He used to wear a red Ulfi and then she never said why don't you put it on. So I never put it on. So this day, this morning of the 15th, came out of my room to go sing with the kerton walls and I I stopped. I said, "Oh, Krishna, you are such an you want to wear the red dress, put it on and shut up.
(1:27:33) " So I went in and I put my red ulie on again. That was another surrender that I didn't realize at the time. Giving up my stuff a little bit. I went and sang with the keran guys, Kithan walls and now I'm standing next to ma. So then ma goes in I take rest or something and then later in the day I realized that I hadn't even sat by the davi in all the weeks I had been there.
(1:28:04) I never like actually spent time at the temple. So I walked over to the mandir the and I sat down in front but there were too many people around you know. So I went around the back and I sat down and I kind of leaned up against the back of the temple and I just closed my eyes and the next thing I knew I was coming back. I really don't know how long I was gone.
(1:28:38) It could have been a second, could have been 10 minutes, could have been an hour. I have no idea. But now everything was different. It was as if the curtain had been parted, opened, and I was seeing what was behind everything. And what I was feeling was this vast presence, this endless space inside of which we all exist.
(1:29:18) Everything is inside of that. everything. There can't be anything outside of it. It it's the it's this presence vast being that holds everything inside. And it was such sweet peace and and quietness. And there was silence even though people were talking. And there was absolute stillness even though things people were moving.
(1:29:51) And people were coming up to me to say goodbye and stuff and I would just say ah thank you thank you. For the first time in my whole life I was out of my own way. There was no more like oh thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. There was no more. I was out of my own way and there was just sweetness everywhere.
(1:30:18) And then I looked up in the sky and I saw this this little thing whirling whirling whirling around you know up there and I laughed and I said ah that's Krishna Dasness it was thoughts me thoughts going around and around and around around and I saw I experienced when I think I'm me. I think I'm me, right? We think we're But when I don't think it, it has no Even when I think it, it doesn't affect this.
(1:31:00) This is always here. Even when I'm stupid and think I'm me, I'm not. It's just thoughts. And they're going on by themselves up there. They have nothing to do with me. I was just here. that freed me to go back to America and really sing because even when I think it's about me, it isn't. Even when I'm stupid, it makes no difference. It's not about me.
(1:31:32) And that's what freed me. And I was just And then I had to leave. Time to leave. Ma calls me in and she looks at me. She knows exactly what I'm She looks at me. She said, "Oh, do you have to go?" I said, "Hama, I have to go." Aa it was this little beautiful dance between the two of us. It was like two empty two empty things like merging and going back and forth. It was so sweet.
(1:32:03) Wait a minute. Go bring him the cloth that we wash Maharaji with. I brought the clo. Okay. [laughter] Finally, she just reached out and grabbed me and hugged me, you know. It was it was so beautiful. [sighs] But that that moment was really uh the great blessing, you know. I mean, that's what really freed me to sing and do and not not give myself a hard time in any way
(1:32:47) about it. It's just I really experienced the reality of even when we think we who we think we are, we're not. We just think so. But we're mostly stuck in those thoughts for our whole life at the time. But I got let go, let out of that cage for a minute and that was a big [snorts] thing and that's why I'm here now.
(1:33:11) Without that I'm not here. >> For me it sounds like you went through a bit of evolution. >> Once a monkey always a monkey. [laughter] >> Krishna sir this was an honor. Thank you for being on the reanir show. Thank you for coming down to our studio. uh you know the beauty of this particular conversation is that I don't think I figured you out yet [laughter] and that happens to me very very rarely on this show but um that sense of surrender has stayed with me and I think it's going to stay with me for a long time after this
(1:33:48) particular conversation as well >> yeah surrender is is we we are surrendered by grace the ego's is never going to give up. Don't even imagine the ego will ever give up. Ramana Maharshi said asking the mind or the ego to kill the ego is like asking the thief to be the policeman. There'll be a lot of investigation but no arrest will ever be made.
(1:34:20) Surrender happens by grace. Grace pours into us into the longing we have in our hearts. And as we uncover that longing, as we expose that longing, then more grace can flow in. >> So all you do at this point is surrender on a much deeper level. >> Right. >> I don't know. I've seen. [laughter] You keep asking me to tell you what I do. I don't know what I do. I sing.
(1:34:49) That's all I know. [laughter] >> I think this podcast has meant very different things to a lot of different people. >> Probably. Yeah. Me, too. I meant I had to get out of bed for this. >> No, thank you sir. Really appreciate it. >> I'm just teasing. >> Always really appreciate your presence in India. >> Thank you.
(1:35:06) >> Can I go as far as saying welcome back home. >> Thank you. Please. Thank you. >> So uh just looking forward to speaking to you again in life. >> Genuinely very grateful for your presence today. >> Good. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you so much. My pleasure. >> That was the episode for today ladies and gentlemen. Send in your feedback.
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(1:35:45) So definitely explore all our spiritual conversations and please come back soon on DRS. Heat. Heat. [music] [music]